| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous (216.160.224.181) |
I just recently moved to Utah, as everyone knows the "Mormon State" It has definately been a change in life not to say the least. Just last week after reviewing my sons report card and getting answers to why he was failing History. He explained that all they were teaching was Mormon history. Cramming it down his throat was more his exact words. I did a little research and sure as he said all paperwork and reading was strictly of Mormon culture, how they came here and all of their "leaders". Correct me if I am wrong but when I went to school we were taught every state, culture, ect... not just the state we happen to be in. I do not know where to begin looking to see if this is legal or not. I am not against the idea of him learning the history of our new state but there is a whole lot of other history that he is missing.They say we have a problem with it because we aren't LDS. But, I am a very open minded person and live by my words "To each his own" and in saying that I want that same respect for me and my children. | ||
| Anonymous (68.83.101.114) |
I would highly suggest that you contact the American Center for Law and Justice. Thier website is www.aclj.org There you can get the answers to your questions. As far as I can tell from your initial statement, this teaching may not be permitted under the separation of church and state. If facts about the Mormans are taught within a Histiry class, that may be allowed, as long as they also allow the same teaching about other religions or beliefs. However, this may not be the case. The ACLJ can give you all of the resources that you need and I think it would be a great place for you to start! Good luck and God Bless! | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.252.129) |
Rather you should contact the ACLU...ACLJ is canted toward the right wing | ||
| Gina (63.196.0.245) |
I think it's common for 5th grade curriculum to have the history of their State. whichever state they are in. What grade is/was your son in at the time? | ||
| Anonymous (69.242.21.100) |
are there any Christian churches in Utah at all or is it only a mormon stronghold? | ||
| Not LDS (65.219.139.109) |
It's just a State history class. To the best of my knowledge all States have them. Utah State history is Mormon history so tell your kid to learn it and be secure in his own faith. The suggestion you were given to go the ACLU is the main reason US history books have become worthless junk. They gloss over real history in their efforts to appease all the very focal groups out there willing to be offend at the first mention of religion or a positive mention of western culture. Without those two items your left with a false image of history. Give him a copy of Mark Twains Roughing it and that should balance out the pro LDS slant. Now kick your kid in the tail for being to lazy to get a good grade and kick him again for trying to snow you about why. | ||
| Not LDS (65.219.139.109) |
"are there any Christian churches in Utah at all or is it only a mormon stronghold?" Lots of them but there are still very small towns were it would not be wise to not be LDS. | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
Hi there not LDS, I think it's really good that you are involved in what your kids are being taught in school. I'm mormon and I can even say that in my fourth grade class here in Provo, Utah I felt that they were craming mormon history down our throats. Most of the kids in my class knew everything already but like the one or two non-mormon kids were really lost. Over all, mormons do have a big deal to do with Utah so in a sense you can't blame the school boards. But then again, I think public schools teach us tons of stuff that doesn't matter in the big picture. | ||
| rebelrenegade (rebelrenegade) Junior Member Username: rebelrenegade Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.214.86.140 |
"Now kick your kid in the tail for being to lazy to get a good grade and kick him again for trying to snow you about why." I got a problem with this statment. How do you know this Kid is lazy? he could be passing every single class cept for this one. Just because he isn't interested in Mormon History makes him lazy? No offense to any Mormons in here, but if I was in a Class where they taught about Mormon History, I would shut them out. I am not interested in Mormon History. I am interested in State History. U.S. History. To the Person that Posted about their son: Here is a Website that Might give you a little information. The Mormons are full within their rights to teach Mormon History even religion, but when their beliefs start infringing on another person, or cramming their beliefs, then it is a problem. http://www.cie.org/teachers/TeachersGuideToReligionInThePublicSchools.asp Now I want to clarify what I my beliefs are. I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Almighty God. I believe our Schools are in such a sad state because we have taken God out of the School system. Now all our Kids have to turn to in today's society is Drugs, Sex, Violence & Rock -n- roll. I will have to side with Anonymous (216.160.224.181) on this issue tho. I have a cousin who is claimed to be a Christian, but she took a Religion course in College and now she believes Jesus was just a great man. Some knothead professor taught her that. Now it is hard for me or my family to talk to her because she is so fervent in her beliefs. When you get someone behind a desk who knows nothing about the Bible and they start teaching stuff it can lead to consequences. | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.24.179.207 |
Quote:Rather you should contact the ACLU...ACLJ is canted toward the right wing Response: Well, you might as well enlighten them on the ACLU then. The ACLU has no problem supporting people breaking the law simply because they are homosexual, transgender, etc. But if anyone else breaks the law they jump on it. Talk about bias. Anything that smells of Christianity they are against regardless of what the law is and support anything that goes against Christianity. Talk about agenda. The ACLU supports teaching evolution as fact and anybody that opposes it. They state it's trying to inject religion. It's funny but by trying to remove religion they establish another. One they want without God. So don't make it sound as if the ACLU is so goody goody. They have a bias and even if it means distorting the truth for their means. M or Michael | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) Junior Member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.24.179.207 |
History, regardless of whether it's Mormon or otherwise should be tested against what the facts are. Most people take for granted that what is taught is right. But when you track down source documents and compare what they teach you will find they leave out important information. I haven't seen anything in history books within the last few years that talk about what's all in the Mayflower Compact and many other documents and make it sound like we're a secular nation founded by athiests, agnostics, and deists. But this is a wonderful teaching opportunity for your family. Go to http://www.wallbuilders.com and just read some of the "source documents" of some of the founding fathers. You get a much better picture of what these people were like and a better grasp of and respect for history. In grade school I didn't like history and barely passed. But I realize that our heritage in this country bears making sure that it's accurately spoken of. We can't always change the biases and inaccuracies around us. But we can be prepared in our own mind what the truth is. It's a great thing and a great test of the mind to question things and know how to find out whether they are so or not. We have to be more engaged than just listening to the stuff thrown at us from day to day without questioning it or finding out if it holds water or not. M or Michael | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) New member Username: solopilot Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Utah is a Christian stronghold, but we also have Protestant cults here too, as well as Catholics. Utah history is pretty much Mormon history until the WWII era. When I was a kid, I was taught about Pilgrims, even though I wasn't a Pilgrim, because they were the history of Massachussetts. I was taught about William Penn, even though I wasn't a Catholic, because he was the history of Pennsylvania. I was taught about Mormons, even though I wasn't a Mormon, because they were the history of Utah. I didn't live in any of those states, but I was taught those things because they were the history of my country. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.60.17 |
In response to solopilot: You have an interesting way of stating your opinion while not speaking directly. In your comment "Utah is a Christian stronghold, but we also have Protestant cults here too, as well as Catholics," are you saying all protestant churches in Utah are cults, are you saying Mormonism is the Christian stronghold, and what exactly do you believe about the catholics? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 235 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: Actually, I was having a little fun at the Protestants' expense. They enjoy so much their claims that Mormonism is a "non-Christian cult" that I enjoy throwing it back at them. One of the particularly ignorant anonymous posters above asked "are there any Christian churches in Utah at all or is it only a mormon stronghold?" so I answered his question in the only way that it deserved. All CHRISTIAN churches are cults -- yours, mine the Catholics, the Orthodox, that guy preaching in the park . . .it is only the last few years that the word "cult" has been given a negative connotation. I think your real question is whether I consider Catholics to be Christian, and of course they are (though I've heard Protestants claim otherwise)! But they don't wind themselves up over the whole "cult" thing so I don't need to tweak them. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.38 |
SP: God is not a God of confusion. I would like to make (only)a suggestion to you. Let me preface this by saying it is obvious some of these respondants are sincere in their desire to know God. I think if this is just a discussion about legal religious issues, we are in the wrong site. If you are here to mock people who aren't as 'educated' as you, let them beware. If we are here to share spiritual truths, we will get 'more out of honey than vinegar'. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 237 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: All I'm trying to do is get people to use their own brains. If they were going to pay any attention to honey, they already would have done so -- there's sure enough of it out there. When they parrot the garbage pumped out by Wally Martin and the Tanners, they aren't thinking for themselves. If they do their own research to prove me wrong, then they educate themselves. If they disagree with me after doing this, we are all still way ahead. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.165 |
What I write here I know from my own experiences in life. I do not belong to any denomination though I am searching only because the Bible says we should fellowship with other believers. I was a Mormon from the time I was 13 years old, til I asked to be excommunicated in 1986. While a member I read all of the Book of Mormon, and part but not all of the DC, PGP, and the other one, (I can't remember the name of). I have found over the years it better to wipe the dirt from my shoes when leaving the presence of those who argue, usually from pride, that Salvation is not a free gift. I used to argue with the best of them, believe me. You obviously have spent the last few years posting on this web page to 'get people to use their brains'. Faith is not about brains, it is about the heart and spirit. Like me, I believe you are searching for something. I have found what I was looking for, and I will pray for you just as I pray for other members of my family and friends who are locked into that place called Mormonism. I do not hear you praise your God. I praise my God. I have learned that what Christ asks of us once we are diciples of his, is to give it all to him. It is only he who is able to give me the peace and joy I now feel and experience daily that I found lacking in those I know who try to do it themselves. May the Lord truly bless you this day. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 243 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: You can't remember the name because there isn't another book. Just the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. Actually, I've only been here a month or two. I'm sorry that you think of it as being "locked in," that's what Protestantism was to me. Once saved, you're saved, so go ahead and hate me for the color of my skin, cheat your neighbors, and condemn anyone who suggests that Christ actually expects us to act like Christians. I found what I was looking for in 1975. I don't praise God here -- at least, not in the way that you expect -- because that's not why I'm here. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.112 |
sp: I'm very sorry to hear that you had such bad experiences with Protestant Churches. Whether the people you dealt with were not Christian, I can't judge. Racism? How in the world did that come into this. God is no respector of persons. Jesus was a Jew. He told the apostles to go out and witness to the Gentiles, who at that time were considered unclean, to go unto all the world. There is no rascism in Christianity. The wonder of God is in the fact that though we all have sinned and will continue to sin, (to be imperfect), he sent his only begotten son to die for us, to take all sin, past and future, upon himself, for us. We are justified in him. Our sins are forgiven because Jesus took our punishment and saved us from the second death, the first being when we accept him, believe in him, are baptised and made a new person. When the Bible says no man has seen the Father, it is because God cannot look at sin. As for being condemned by men for loving Jesus and following his commandments, he tells us over and over we will be persecuted, mocked, reviled, murdered. He does not promise us 'a rose garden'. He says in our weakness (sin) he does his best work for others and ourselves. The apostles often spoke of the fact that they were sinners after they were saved. But they knew they were saved by the sacrifice of Jesus' life. Don't you get it? When Adam and Eve sinned, they were cast out of Eden, the perfect earth. After they ate of the fruit of the tree of good and evil, they became what we are, sinners. When God was going to destroy the earth, he found one righteous man and his family, Noah. When man fell again, he sent Jesus. My earthly life goal is looking to eternity, when I will be with God. Not from any good thing I do, (the only good I do is through the Holy Spirit in me), but because God is not a liar. He said have faith, hope and charity. It is so simple it scares everyone. They think 'if it sounds too good to be true, it is. To have faith in men will never bring you salvation. It is faith in God. I would like to tell you a story. A little boy came to his mother in the kitchen one day and handed her a note. It said, ' for taking out the garbage this week, 50 cents. For making my bed, 75 cents. For doing my homework, 25 cents. For watching my little brother, $1.00. His mother looked down at her son, turned the paper over and began to write, 'for carrying you in my body that kept you safe, warm and nourished, no charge. For staying up with you the nights you were afraid, no charge. For ironing the neighbors clothes so you could have a baseball, no charge. For loving you from the time you were concieved, no charge. She gave her son back his note and as he read tears began to stream down his face. His mother took him in her arms. He then understood her love for him. Since the main topic was cults, I have to say one thing. It may upset you, but it is true. No african american man could hold the priesthood until BYU wanted to compete in college basketball. It was then the Church Prophet had a revelation saying black men could hold the priesthood. The mormon women cannot hold the priesthood, so they certainly could never become a prophet. Are you aware the old testament speaks of a woman prophetess? I can go as far as you would like with this. I know that if I were still a member and they were aware of the discussions you are having here, they would not be pleased. Since you seem to think there is no control on what you do as a mormon, ask your bishop about it, get his opinion. Do not ask me why, but God has placed you on my heart. God Bless | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 247 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC wrote: "There is no rascism in Christianity." Well, that pretty much spikes the Baptists, who created the whole Abyssinian thing to keep the blacks away from "good people." That pretty much spikes the honohono, all of those Protestant churches who sent their missionaries to Hawaii to do good, and did right well by keeping the kanaka from having any authority in the churches they convinced the kanaka to build for them. God has said a lot more than "have faith, hope, and charity." Of course, as a Protestant, you can pick and choose which doctrines you believe in . . . You said "It may upset you, but it is true. No african american man could hold the priesthood until BYU wanted to compete in college basketball. It was then the Church Prophet had a revelation saying black men could hold the priesthood." It may upset you, but it ISN'T true. BYU has been competing in college basketball at least since 1918 (that's as far back as the list of lettermen goes). Come on, next time at least do a Google search to see how easily you can be disproven . . . Hey! I just realized that you think that I'm WHITE, don't you?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH You haven't mentioned just how long you were in the Church, how long you were active and how old you were when you left. I joined in 1975, before the revelation on the Priesthood. Prior to the revelation, black members who were otherwise worthy had all of the blessings of priesthoon and the temple without the responsiblities. Now we are all even. Oh, yes, the old "mind control" thing. Yeah, right. You pay someone to read the Bible to you and tell you what God says, and you think that _I_ am "under control"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.211 |
SP Believe it or not, I had a pretty good idea you weren't white or you would not be so hurt about what you have seen in your life. That does not excuse you. You are responsible to God, your church will not be at the judgment in your place. It is appointed man once to die; after death, the judgment. You admit blacks received the blessings but not the responsibilities. A twisted way to say what I said. I am still praying for. I do not belong to any denomination. I was baptized in the mormon church at age 13, in 1960, and left it in 1986, so I was a member for 26 years. I do not pay anyone to teach me. I study my Bible daily, I go to the library and find books on religions, and on Christianity, as the Holy Bible teaches me to do. I tithe to needy organizations (10%) and have volunteered for our local thrift store and our VFW. I write to servicemen who are overseas fighting for what we are able to do here. It does not matter to me if you are green. I don't care. And I will continue to pray for you. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 252 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: 26 years? I still outrank you. ;) It isn't a matter of being hurt, it's a matter of knowing that there is a difference between right and wrong, between disagreement and bigotry. So, you don't belong to any church now? Why not start your own? This is not meant as a snide remark, it's a real suggestion. Obviously you are able to support yourself, so you can avoid being a priestcrafter. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.227 |
sp You outrank me in years. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a black (Or other race than caucasian) person who could be spending your time doing God's work instead of setting up a situation where your object was to take your spite out on mostly wellmeaning people who have a desire to be diciples for Christ. You placed the LDS church on a site intended for people to learn about so called churches who are really satan's workers. Shame on you for having so little respect for your church. Where is your selfrespect? If you have studied the Bible as you claim, you did not follow any of the Lord's admonition to pray unceasingly to find the truth, to search out these things. Go to BYU archives and find out how many young black men played basketball and how many other universities they competed against, before blacks were given ALL honors of your priesthood. If you were sincere, if you were even trying to convert people, you would be speaking in love. But you said there's enough honey out there, didn't you. You need to pray that God will use your life experiences to inhance your spirituality instead of hating. Hate comes from fear. I think you know that and you are scared to death. This is finally a place you have found to have some misguided powertrip that will only hurt you, not us. God's patience is magnificent, but even he loses his patience. As to my being able to support myself, God has blessed me greatly so I have the time to try my best to glorify him by sharing what I know to be true. In the first place, my children are White, Russian, and Aleut Indian. My grandnephew is a beautiful, intelligent, loving white and black child. I live in a complex for senior and disabled people. My disability is no ones business than my own. One of my best friends is a young black woman who lost her eyesight due to a disease she contracted while serving in the armed forces. Her name is Tina. She could tell you things that will make your problems seem so trivial you will cry (if you have any compassion). I don't care your color, your gender, your age, your occupation. I only know you say you are a member of the true church and I am telling you all your church is not a church of Christ. I am tired at the moment but I will give you all the Biblical references you need to see the truth. I'm not sure that is what you ARE doing this for. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 256 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: First, I don't have any spite. Second, I figure that "wellmeaning" people would rather know the truth about the Church rather than parrot lies and out-of-contexts. Anyone who knows the truth and doesn't agree with me, fine. Those who parrot Wally Martin and the Tanners, though . . .these are people who can't make up their own minds because they don't have the right info. If I let them stay in that condition, then that's MY fault. No, GC, I came to a site where there was already a lot of misinformation and DISinformation about the Church. You and I are BOTH old enough to remember when black basketball players ONLY played for "black" colleges. Remember UNCF? Not only did they play only at "black schools" like Temple, they didn't play AGAINST white schools or in the pro leagues until the mid-1960s. Are you going to suggest that the lack of priesthood kept them from playing for the Lakers or for USC back then? If you look at the records, you will see that BYU was playing almost as many schools in the 1950s as they are today. The most notable addition was the USAF Academy, which was added in the early 1960s because it didn't even exist until then. Nice try, GC, but as I said, next time you might want to see how easily you can be proven wrong. And HOW DARE YOU USE THE RACE CARD. It shows that you are still not seeing me as your brother because my skin is a different color than yours . . .yet you condemn a church which only sees me as an Elder, not as a color. And yes, I prayed long and hard before joining the Church. I didn't want to be a Mormon, especially since it meant that I would have to go out and get a real job instead of being a preacher. There was something very attractive about being paid to proclaim for Jesus Christ. I still proclaim for him, and not only do I not get paid, he expects me to tithe and pay fast offerings so that his work can go forward. I'm not trying to convert people, unless you mean from their blind loyalty to anyone who will say bad things about Mormonism. Oh, here comes the "Some of my best friends are ____" bit. Lessee . . .some of my best friends are white people. Some are brown. A couple are even black, and I mean BLACK, not brown like me, I'm talking like PAINTED black black. And you know what? I had to think about it, because I don't think about Akiko being a skin color, she is my friend from Japan. I don't think about Jake being white . . .come to think of it, he's not white, he's just real pale brown. I don't know where his folks are from, but his mom is blonde and his dad is as dark as I am. My friend Jose is Chinese. Josie is Filipina. I won't try to count the number of my friends who are kanaka. BTW, there is no such thing as a white and black child, unless you're talking about a zebra. And Russian IS white, except to someone like you. It's hard to be more Caucasian than those people from the Caucasus . . . | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.28 |
I apologise. I was trying not to offend and wound up offending. My grandnephew's parents are Jamaican and American. I was trying to show you I am aware there are still prejudices in this country over many things, race being one. I did not bring up race, you did. But I still apologise because I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, in all honesty. My point was: the Mormon Church was a rascist denomination. You have read the Book of Mormon. The first book speaks over and over how men were cursed with a dark skin (when they were unworthy), then made a nice 'delightsome'white when the were worthy. The church calls it the 'curse of Cain' and if you deny it someone has really pulled your leg. You have been in the church for over 20 years. You mentioned you have children. You certainly seem to qualify for a higher priesthood than Elder. Why haven't they given you a higher office? The Mormon Church claims they are the one church who has made no changes. Give me a break. The prophet at any given time changes doctrine. Your books teach plural marriage and communal living. Why has that changed. I know why, but I'm sure you wouldn't believe it if I told you. I prayed long and hard as a child before I joined the Mormon Church too. Satan has more power than we can understand except by studying the Bible, not the Book of Mormon. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.208 |
If you are interested in learning about the God of the Holy Bible, read: Creator of all things; Genesis 1, Genesis 2----His Compassion; Numbers 14, Psalms 86, Psalms 103---Eternity of God; Deut. 33, Gen. 21, Isai. 44. Glory of: Exod. 3, Exod. 24, Deut. 28, Psalms 19, Psalms 24, Psalms 57--His Fatherhood: 2 Samual 7, 1 Chron. 28, Matthew 18, Matt. 3, Matt. 7, Mark 11---His Faithfulness: Gen. 28, Psa. 17, Matt. 7, 1 Sam. 12, 1 Kings 8, Jere.32---Holiness of God: Exod. 3, Lev. 19, 1 Sam. 2, Psa. 47,60,111, Jer. 3--Immutable and unchangeable: Num 23, 1 Sam. 15, Psa. 33, Isa. 59, Mala.3, James 1, Heb. 6--Impartial: Deut. 10, Job 37, Acts 10, Eph. 6, Col. 3, Romans 2, 1 Pet. 1, Job 36--Invisible: Exod. 20, Exo. 33, Deut. 5, 1 Kings 8, Col. 1, Heb. 11, 1 John 4--incomprehensible: Job 37, Eccl. 3, Isai. 40, 1 Cor. 2, Isai: 55 and the list goes on and on, His love, his knowledge, Mercy, Omnipotence, Omnipresent:, Perfection, Personality, Power, Presaence, Providence, Righteousness--God a spirit: John 4, Num. 16 Ask, and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find. The Holy Bible It is All there for you and me. Thank God Today! He will bless you. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 262 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC wrote: "You certainly seem to qualify for a higher priesthood than Elder. Are you SURE that you were a member of this Church? There is NO priesthood higher than Elder. I hold the same priesthood as the Apostles. "Why haven't they given you a higher office?" You're STILL trying to imply something about my color. Yassuh, Massuh, mebbe I be'd bess t'go back to the Ab'snen Bap Tisst Chuch 'n de mownin'! The Church called it the MARK of Cain. Cain was sent to the south. South from the Middle East is a place called Africa. Hmmm . . .Africa . . .dark skin . . .lots of sunshine . . .gee, you think there's some advantage to having a dark skin where there's a lot of sunshine, GC? And gee, again, isn't that where the Africans who were brought here as slaves came from . . ? Yes, prophets change doctrine. This is supposed to be a surprise? FYI, Merriam-Webster's definition of white includes "3 : free from spot or blemish: as a (1) : free from moral impurity." At the time of translating the Book of Mormon, "white" and "pure" were synonyms. . . .and, considering that doctrine from the beginning was "line upon line and precept upon precept," your assertion that the Church has ever claimed to have "made no changes" just doesn't fit the facts. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.224 |
sp You are a fool. I was speaking of the people in the fictional account of the Jews that came to America with a compass, you know,,come on, you remember, Moroni, Nephi, Alma, those guys. Like the one on top of your church steeples, that idol named Mormon!!!!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.149 |
Where is the FAITH in Mormonism. My mormon family have a two year supply of food and other items stored as directed by the church. My Brother is a member of the Masons, whose secret rituals are used by Mormons in the Temple. You cannot hide from God. Mom has spent thousands of dollars on geneology. Mormons are directed by the church to trace their lineage back at least three generations. The mormon church sells all the 'proper, acceptable' paperwork, (for a fee) to mormons and nonmormons alike. My Mom is 86 years old. She told me she is ready to die but she can't yet because she promised my stepfather she would finish his geneology. This is not what God wants for Christians. Where is the FAITH? Where is the holy spirit in those lives. Mormons believe in more than one spirit also. The holy spirit, spirit of god, spirit of jesus. Incredible as it may seem. Satan was an angel of great beauty. Jesus said WATCH, I would not have you ignorant. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 272 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
GC: You've gone from the absurd into half-truth -- and half a truth is ALL of a LIE. Come to think of it, there's a whole lie in there too, the old "Masons" thing. This, from someone who uses the same Bible that the (*gasp*) Masons use! The "proper, acceptable" paperwork for geneaology is available FREE OF CHARGE by simply downloading it and printing your own, as many as you like. If you don't download, or for convenience, you can buy the sheets for something like a whole, whopping 10 or 15 cents each, depending on costs of printing. The premier geneaology program, Personal Ancestral File, is available free for download, and will print the forms already filled in. If God doesn't want geneaology for Christians, then please explain why so much of the Bible is taken up by geneaology. You imply that the Church is selling things to make money. Well, if so, where is the money going? A Book of Mormon, 785 pages, costs $2 ($2.50 for hardcover), cheap enough that I usually have a couple on hand to give away. The first printing of the Book of Mormon, hardcover, was $1 back when that was a lot of money. Then let's look at the major Church magazines for adults, "Liahona" (worldwide) and "Ensign" (in North America). $10 for 12 issues of a full-size, well-produced magazine comparable to newsstand magazines. Hmmm . . .well, maybe there's all that money from the turnstiles at the Temple . . .except that there is no such thing. Go to the Temple twice a day or not go at all, there is no difference in "price," that being a "Yes" answer when you are asked if you pay a full and complete tithe (and nobody ever checks). Oh, gee, no real Christian would pay TITHING, would they? Look at the money that comes in from the Church's commercial ventures, such as farms and ranches -- oh, wait, that food is grown for Deseret brand, which is given away FREE to the needy ("The brand which money cannot buy"). No, GC, the money which comes to the Church is used for the Lord's purposes, not to buy mansions for men. President Hinckley lives in a small apartment (I've seen it) across from Temple Square. He would live "better" if he had stayed in his earlier career with the Union Pacific Railroad through to retirement. Now, contrast that to Protestantism. Every time I turned around, the plate was being passed or there was some new program or something that needed to be paid for. No, Jesus would not have you ignorant. Your ignorance comes from you, not from Christ. | ||
| mormon_girl_14 (mormon_girl_14) New member Username: mormon_girl_14 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 65.89.233.5 |
I live in Utah. And all middle schools here go like this... 7th grade..... Utah Studies (this is probably the class he is in) 8th grade.... U.S. History 9th grade.... World History Basically ALL of our history is about Mormons. We were the first ones here, who settled this state, and who populate most of it. If you have a problom with it, you are just going to have to deal with it, or move to another state. Sorry hun, but you can't change that. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 114 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.199 |
Good. Then you must know enough about U.S. History and World History to understand, this country is full of all sorts of people. The world is full of all sort of people. When you become an adult, you may wish to stay in your hometown. That will be wonderful, it is something many people do. But if you go to other parts of the country, and the world, you will see there are a lot of wonderful people out there of every religion and even wonderful people who have no religion but worship God. And I really hope you will learn that though some people drink, gossip, etc., God still loves them too. There may be many wonderful things about them that people can't see with their eyes. Try to see with your heart! The best to you. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 381 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
GC: For once, you and I agree completely. I'm sure that it won't happen again. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 118 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.60.32 |
 SP Don't be too sure. If this is a 14 year old child, we should be telling her to make sure her parents are aware she is on this site. If they are, then fine. Otherwise, I feel uncomfortable about her reading all our nitpicking. |
