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maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 11:14 pm: | 
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Hi -- my brother is in a group in Columbus OH that seems to take orders from Indianapolis. No formal structure it seems. Dismissive of family. Very close, tight nit structure. Thinks any church structure is satanic. www.athisfeet.com has many of their teachings. Also publishes materials "Kingdom Press" from Indianapolis. They do not beleive in leaders, preachers, etc. They basically all sit around and prophecy. It sounds basically NT, but in practice, is very judgemental and harsh. Will not allow me to come to see him. Will not speak to my parents -- who are both evangelical beleivers -- until they repent to him for all their sins. Any ideas of what this could be? |
arron (arron)
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1615
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.204.41
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 12:01 am: |
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never heard of it but it is truly exhibiting cultic beheavior. it would be best to try to get him out of it. tell your parents not to repent of anythig they want for that will lead them down the wrong path. if the man will not come out just pray for him and let GOD do the rest. |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.23
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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There seems to be some sort of national network. None of their writings have a byline. The sermons on line have no person attributed. This false humility is used to condemn mainstream christianity as 'seeking its own'. when i ask questions about his wife and children, i am told that this kind of talk is just chatter and he would much rather be about kingdom stuff. Very intense for sure. He has blasted just about every family member for sins of one sort or another. I talked to him about the sin of pride and said that his actions were very close to that of the Pharisees, which Jesus condemned.
There is one book attributed to a guy, Mike Peters of Indianapolis |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 315
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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The PO box in Indianapolis is most likely in a location that is accessible to the cult, for the sake of convenience, with their mailings etc. Find out where the PO box is exactly, and pay a visit. Ask the people behind the counter if they have noticed the people that wear weird clothes, and preach a lot.. Go to any businesses or coffeee shops in the area and see if they have left tracts and if anybody has seen them.
"A Light Has Dawned
Six young ladies (ages 12-15, with some “slightly” older helpers), each adopting a couple of characters and particular chapters and sketches, collaborated on this short “historical novel” about Jesus,"
This indicates that the group probably lives communaly and has some sort of school attached to it.
"Back to the Basics
Transcripts from some Special Times in Africa, spoken extemporaneously from village to village"
Many cults do missions in Africa as there are fewer questions asked in 3rd world countries!
"Children: In Life, In Meetings, In Our Hearts
How you, too, can participate in raising a new generation for Jesus, in Truth and Life. While laziness, disconnectedness, disobedience, and worldly psychology control this Laodicean culture, it’s time now to move on to God’s ways. Men’s ways have obviously failed miserably."
Probably most of the core members have young families , so are in their thirties, and early forties.. |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 316
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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CONTINUED
"Foundations
The Journey Deepens! A Treasure-Store of Truths for those who desire to experience true Together-Life in the Lamb of God."
Once again indicates communal living.
"Community?? House Church??
NO!! NO!! NO!!!!!
Life in Christ Together is not about “how to have meetings.” It’s about ZOE LIFE!!!"
find out what the term , Zoe life means, ask your brother. can you trace his calls to an area code, or are they blocked?
Consuming Zeal for Father’s House
Answers to common questions about the uncommon Journey we share.
ask your brother about that term "Journey" |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 317
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
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CONTINUED
Day of Small Beginnings
A real-Life novel, and seeds of real Life.
This small beginnings also indicates a communal situation. Is there any farm land in that area?Does your brother ever preach to you about food and eating habits? Many groups like this survive by selling bread. vist any health food stores in the area, and examine the breads. They may also shop there.
"If You Believe
Music, from the overflow of Jesus’ daily Life in the Saints"
This indicates that this group might play music in public places, in order to evangelise, once again ask people in that area, within a radius of 20 miles.
Try gas stations and ask if people travel around in a van or schoolbus.
'Romans
Audio truths to expose our hearts to Him. Good News of Jesus, the Christ -- and His Call to both Jew and Gentile.'
Dont ever believe for a minute that they dont have a leader. i think this is the leaders voice on this download.. he sounds like in 1994 he may possibly have been from California, and at the time was in his 30's, so he would now be in his forties. it sounds as if the group originated in park meetings.
Here are a few more for you to examine.
"Unborrowed Worship
An audio and video scrapbook of thoughts to draw us to Him with unfeigned Faith, and seminal, original worship from our hearts to His.
Video Clips
Short home-made streaming or downloadable video clips exchanged amongst Family members here for encouragement. Made available for
your personal growth and encouragement, too."
It feels very worrying when you have no idea where your brother is, but there are ways to trace him if you have the time to do so. The reason you can trace them is the size of the group.
Women’s Role in God’s Family
God’s Lady! Fully expressing the Spirit of the Living God, as a woman, amongst God’s People. God’s ways are Wonder-full.
hope this is helpful. I understand your pain. |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 318
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
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"from ZOE "ZOH-ay" (zwh) - Life 'collectively', interdependent, interconnected. Although it means 'life' in the conventional sense (for example: Matt.9:18, Matt.27:63, Luke.2:36, Acts.25:24, Rom.7:2, 2Cor.1:8, 1Thes.4:17, 1Tim.5:10, Rev.19:20), Jesus uses ZOE exclusively of 'life eternal'"
This indicates the parts of the gospel that they single out in a particular way. |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.23
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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I do know where he physically is...Westerville, OH, a suburb of Columbus.
I think there about 15 other families. They all live in the same block -- different homes.
Are you saying that they misrepresent ZOE life? |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.23
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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About a leader....they are so cagey. In their wrtings they talk about how the modern church invented elders and pastors and deacons, saying that they were just 'servants' in NT times.
But dont -- as humans -- we need leaders? Saying that "jesus is our leader' is a good theological position, but who makes the decisions and keeps us on track? No leader=no direction. |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 320
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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For sure they have a leader. Cults have predicatable patterns. They often protect the identity of the leaders who often have questionable histories.
Follow the money trail of this cult and you will discover the corruptions. There are good leaders and bad leaders within the Christian church.. Anyone who abuses scripture as a means to separate families is a bad leader and is following a different God..
The good shepherd is exactly that - responsible and loving. |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 321
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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PS I was wondering how you started this main thread, as opposed to a sub thread? |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.24
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 8:21 am: |
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So does the board think this group is a just a home church that has gotten a little to self righteous? |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 324
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 8:51 am: |
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Here is a section of this website
"How to determine if a group is a destructive cult."
where you can get accurate information on mind control
http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm
that is far beyond anything i could say. my personal belief is that separation from families is the jugular that cults go for in order to be able to achieve brainwashing.
Did you see my above question?
Thanks. you are right to be concerned.. |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.24
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 3:58 pm: |
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Thanks for the article link
I just dont know what to do now. I have tried reasoning and his excuse is that I dont understand because I am not walking close to Christ. But...I am. Very deeply involved. Teaching, reading, listening to God. Its a shame really.
As far as the posting, I dont know. i just posted a new thread. Did I do something wrong? |
cybermom (cybermom)
Intermediate Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 462
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:20 pm: |
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The thread is fine - it's up to you how you want to post/start a thread. I found the websites you linked to a little creepy esp. considering I have no idea who is writing the articles. Why would I read something if I don't know who wrote it, where they are "coming from" and what group they represent? There are too many weirdos on the internet to haphazardly read just anything.
Arguing with someone strongly entrenched in any controlling group would be pointless. All you really can do is lift them up in prayer, and demonstrate Jesus' love to them at every opportunity.
Hopefully someone can come up with names, locations, etc. Their secretiveness is a MAJOR red flag. God bless.
Cybermom |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
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The secretiveness is a big issue.
All of their books have a copyright, POB number in Indianapolis, and no author. Except one book, which is penned by a Mike Peters in early editions but later anonymous.
The reason, they say, for the anonymity, is that the bible does not support teachers (Jesus said "call no man teacher", preachers, elders etc.
This is the their stab at humility. But they come across as extremely arrogant and haughty. The group in Indianapolis calls themselves "the church in Indianapolis". I imagine this is after some sort of NT model "The church at Antioch" etc. I imagine all of their group has simliar names.
They also have websites www.jesusistheone.com listed to this same mystery PO Box.
There are quite a few MP3 sermons...some guy with a Kentucky accent, no name.
And the writings are very droll with plenty of scripture quoted. I think they try to lull you with volumes. I have been a Christian for many years, have a good reading composition and am a professional writer but these things just lose me.
The problem is that I cannot find any information on them in any of factnet's site or any other cult tracker. |
cybermom (cybermom)
Intermediate Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 463
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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I just went to the "Jesus" website. Very interesting. They say in small print at the bottom that they don't condone or encourage anyone to see the "Matrix" movies, yet quote extensively from it, even using some of the props - ie, red and blue pills. Is this "do as I say, not as I do?" Because someone obviously has seen the first movie enough to know it well. Sorry, anonymity (sp?) is a real turnoff for me.
My niece and her husband attended a church in Indianapolis a few years ago. They had no pastor, and leaders took turns preaching. And they were very into the whole Y2K scare; my husband and daughter happened to be there right before that, and all the preacher said was doom, gloom and fear. They met in a local school in Indy. Does this sound familiar? Hopefully, it's not the same group!!
BTW, I think the use of all the Matrix stuff on that website is copyright infringement. They'd better be careful.
Cybermom |
maleman (maleman)
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
|
Message deleted/edited by FactNet at the request of user maleman
(Message edited by dannydawg5 on March 28, 2006) |
cybermom (cybermom)
Intermediate Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 471
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 6:10 pm: |
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I'm not sure, but I'll be seeing them in a few weeks, and will ask. They don't attend there anymore, as it's too far from their home. (Thank you, Jesus! )
Cybermom |
wilma (wilma)
Intermediate Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 180
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 65.35.177.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 9:51 pm: |
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Check out the category/thread on Gene Edwards / Frank Viola for more info on home churching. Spiritual abuse can happen in an "institutional church", a wacked out cult, and in a living room too.
I don't know if the Indianapolis group has any connections to Gene Edwards or not. |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.59.131
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:10 am: |
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Funny, I've been reading their stuff and some of it I really liked. I found the site thru the old Church at Kent's website http://www.feargod.us/ But the anonymity-jazz is not cool. I emailed them, and some other sources, for more information. <allathisfeet@cs.com> I will post whatever I learn.
The man whose brother is involved in Ohio -- can you or your parents or somebody appease him enough to get into the meetings and see for yourself? That they're advocating withdrawal from Christian family members and not welcoming visitors-- that's ominous. |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.58.201
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
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I heard back from Mike Peters in Indianapolis. <allathisfeet@cs.com>
My post to him was:
In all honesty, I'm not thrilled emailing people who won't post personal information on their website (like your names). It's weird that you guys choose to be anonymous. Paul and the apostles didn't do anything anonymously. They used their names when they wrote, when they spoke, everywhere they went. The cults do things anonymously. It bugs me that you are imitating them or trying to make some kind of point.
He wrote:
Wow, Jesus' love to you, too. That was kind of a rude "introduction" but we'll let that slide, in a world that is as twisted as the one we all inherited. I guess you know, if you have looked at the website, about 10,000 more times about the church here, then you just offered about yourselves. And, you didn't seem to have a lick of trouble contacting us. Actually some days 400 people in a day, from well over 100 countries have no problem contacting us and initiating dialog. The church has been here for over 20 years, doing what we try to do for Jesus. "HE must increase, we must decrease" has always been our heart, in world travels and simple walks through urban back alleys. OF COURSE this is the exact opposite of today's self-aggrandizing and sheep-fleecing of "selling Truth" rather than giving gifts to God's Lambs. But, you should be more suspicious of those who plaster their faces all over their books and "sell" truth, than you should be about those who do no recruiting, will not take anyone's money, and only want to build His People up, where they live, to love more and honor Him more effectively. But, I know that seems odd to folks who have only had modern "hero worship" religion to grow up on, and know no different. But, as I said, you certainly had no problem communicating, as far as I can tell. And another 20 letters have come in since I started to write this one, so I'm thinking we're not that hard to talk to.
He hasn't responded whether there's a group in Columbus. Right now I'm still leery, due to Maleman's brother's actions and the snide, condescending tone of this response. This guy never 'introduces' himself anywhere on their website. I added a few lines about myself so in actuality, he does know more about me than I do about him. |
cybermom
Intermediate Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 480
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 5:27 pm: |
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What a snotty, sarcastic response. He really shows the fruit of their ministry, huh? And at least here you see what is really in their hearts, even if they don't reveal anything on their website.
Run, don't walk, away as fast as you can! |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 8:34 pm: |
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I have dozens of their books sent by my brother. Not one of them reveals the 'who' behind all this. So in that regard, there is no messiah figure and they are a little 'anticult' in that regard. But as far as the way they treat others, that is disturbing. Their response to you follows a real trend -- 'we are so holy you cannot possibly understand'
i got a letter from my brother that says this: "And, as long as I live, I am committed to grow in my love and passion for my King and obeying Him to calling others, especially those who wear His name to do the same. Worthy is the Lamb! I will be adamantly opposed to hypocrisy and religious garbage that mocks Jesus and uses His name and will beg with those entrenched in traditions to not waste their lives and souls playing games with Jesus and His name."
that sounds good...but in his view -- and this shadow groups philosophy -- anyone who is in ANY church with any structure (i.e. building, elders, pastors, teachers) is apostate. |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.59.102
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 12:14 am: |
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Here's another website that has links to this Indy group. I emailed the contact person about my concerns since he is actively promoting 'Indy'. He writes:
I really sense a lot of judgment here and false assumptions based on YOUR understandings about cults. Maybe you should read this to actually understand what a cult is http://www.yourkingdomcome.com/isita.htm}
Aside from all that, you seem to have been going down a path chasing after what you deem to be false, kind of like a pharisee, instead of pouring your energies into finding those that actually love Jesus. Carry on if you want, but in the end you'll probably still be in a compromising situation where Jesus isn't glorified and the gates of hell prevail and everyone has their own opinion about everything and does what is "right in their own eyes" while placing Jesus' teachings as optional at best. You seem to be a fault finder and NOT a seeker of truth. Your "research" about those in INDY indicates that and it is a serious thing in God's eyes to "speak abusively against whatever you do not understand," (Jude 1:10.}
Another contact with Indy stuff on their website answered me this way:
Be careful in the desire to find truth that you don't fall into some of the snare's of 1 Timothy 6:4 "... pride, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, railings, evil surmisings,
Evil Sumising
Websters 1828
SURMISE, v.t. surmi'ze. To suspect; to imagine without certain knowledge; to entertain thoughts that something does or will exist, but upon slight evidence.
...to me it is no big deal that they will not put there name and personal contact stuff on the web.... I see it as love and protection not something to be evil surmizing about. Remember who it was that killed Jesus. Religious Pharisees that did not want their show to end. The things Indy teaches will stir up wrath in the modern day Pharisees. Yet it is just wise for them to protect their families. The underground China house church guy does not tell everyone ever thing out of wisdom. This is one reason that I can think of for why they do the no name no contact thing.
Remember love "hopeth all things,"
1 Corinthians 13:7 It is not like Jesus to assume the worst. In the desire to find the real Jesus and how He expresses itself in "what Church really is" we cannot focus on the potential for counterfeit we must focus the real thing (Jesus). Then anything else will stand out as counterfeit. If we want Jesus we must Know Him and spend our time cultivating knowing Him instead of ( spending our time looking for the counterfeit) by trying to be heretic hunters. Cult skittish fault finding people may find in That Day that the very ones they unknowingly wrote off as "cultish" may knew Jesus far more.
That's my experience so far with these folks, all 48 hours of it! Needless to say that's all the contact we will be having, ever! Is it okay that I've posted these emails or am I violating a rule somewhere. Let me know. |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.58.22
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:03 pm: |
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Here is an excerpt from page 82 of the PDF download "Back to the Basics as Spoken village-to-Village in Africa":
Lives Joined and Knit Together
I should mention that some saints in Columbus, Ohio, (about 500km from Indianapolis) have prayed very much for all of you and have provided financially for us to come. Saints in another city, Phoenix, Arizona, have also sacrificed very much out of their poverty to pray for and give gifts of money for us to come. As you might remember to pray for us in Indianapolis, also pray for Columbus and Phoenix because we are part of them also. As you remember to pray for all of us, maybe it’s important to understand that if there is anything we are able to serve you with, it’s the product or the outworking of all of their lives with our lives everyday. The things that Jesus shows all of us—here and in Indiana—are the products of putting our arms around each other and helping each other. The times when sin is challenged in our lives, the times when those around us lift up our weak arms, those are what make us who we are. If there is anything we could ever offer, it only comes because others have tried to help us. So you are seeing, not four people but 4,000 people, who have changed our lives over the years. Now you, too, have changed our lives, to the praise of God’s glory. Jesus gets all the glory, not us. As you have affected our lives and, hopefully, we have yours, Jesus gets all the thanksgiving.
Here is an excerpt from page 83 (last page of PDF download):
A question was asked recently—
“concerning these things of which we have spoken—the Priesthood of Believers, how to be closer to Jesus, and what a church really is-- are we far behind other places? Do people in other countries already know these things and walk in them?”
I want you to know your great responsibility because you are some of the first people on earth to know these things and be called to walk in them. There are very few people in any country that understand these truths of God. God has commissioned you to go forth with His Word also. To all places that are near you, go and spread the news of God’s Holy Kingdom. God has chosen you as special with a special message. Very few people in India or Poland or anywhere else on earth know what you know about God’s heart. God whispered these things in your ear about His Church so that you can live these things and spread these things. Will you accept this commission to go forth? The gospel of God’s Kingdom must go into every nation. And then the end will come! You have a job to do preparing the Bride. I hope you will have great courage and great faith to do this.
So this mentions Columbus and Phoenix groups. Nobody of the 3 contacts mentioned in my previous posts have answered my question for information about other groups.
Note that the various groups have been funding Mike Peters and 3 others to preach in other countries since at least 2003 (copyright date on this PDF).
I'm most alarmed by the final paragraph of the book (above). Everyone familiar with FactNet and cults knows the danger in someone saying:
--- "you are some of the first people on earth to know these things"
---"There are very few people in any country that understand these truths of God."
---"God has chosen you as special with a special message."
---"Very few people in India or Poland or anywhere else on earth know what you know about God’s heart."
All of this after being preached to by Mike Peters & 3 others, a.k.a. "God":
"God whispered these things in your ear about His Church so that you can live these things and spread these things." |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
|
This is interesting.
A shadow group for sure. But most dangerous groups start out small and secretive. Aging_mom -- your assessment is true. Especially about the 'you are the only ones to receive this message."
I have been recently told by my brother this:
** I don't have a 'familial, biologically-based relationship' to give - it isn't there, with you or anyone. Truth-based, not biology-based, relationships are what I’m after. "See no man after the flesh" is what the Spirit said through Paul. And, that is the type of person I intend to be. I do care and will continue to pray for you and hope that through God’s sovereign will things might change, but I don’t really have much more to say other than you might dig deeper into the things I have already sent your way.**
I am an evangelical, God loving, Jesus preaching, witnessing Christian that is basically being told that 'biology' doenst matter and only the 'spiritual' does. But because my spiritual isnt enough, he is cutting contact off with me.
I wonder if anyone has expereicne with the group in Arizona? |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.50.181
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:54 pm: |
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That is so sad. We're really sorry this is happening to you. I'm sharing your story with family and friends and we will pray for your brother and his family. How long has your brother been involved? How did he first hear of 'Indy' and what led him to get involved? You said there were 15 families in the same block -- wow. Now
that's a block party! If you showed up on the block and asked questions, would they let you in? Any idea how long they've been meeting? I'll try to find out about the Phoenix group.
Thank you so much for posting here on FactNet, just when we needed it!! FactNet's the best source of cult information on the web. Reading the threads is a great education. Some very good people here, who love God with all their hearts and have family members enmeshed in cults of one kind or another. Or they've been in cults and are now out. The way they explain authentic Christianity blows me away. Real faith vs. mind-control. They've helped me discern controlling
behavior in my own life. I'm a much better wife, mom and fellow believer now.
Christian cults can rise up from almost any group, but they're often found among fervent folks who (rightfully) aren't satisfied with lukewarm Christianity yet don't realize the deeper dangers of controlling Christianity. I refresh my knowledge of cult materials often, to keep the line distinct in my own life between an honest seeking after holiness, and controlling behavior.
Striving for righteousness and holiness in our personal walks is the accepted and historic response to Christian faith -- something we should be doing, and encouraging others to do. But to put ourselves above another person, esp.
another believer or group of believers -- that's when things change. That is the heart additude which opens the door to what I call the 'cult-spirit'.
Genuine works of God will be up-front and transparent in their dealings-- welcoming questions, visitors, and hecklers alike with sensitivity and warmth. Moves of God are never anonymous -- God works in and through people. Millions of martyrs have proudly sacrificed their lives because they gave their names and would not deny their Lord.
The 'cult-spirit', on the other hand, often chooses anonymity. It will become defensive, sarcastic and evasive when questioned. There's a nasty tone in communications --- instead of answering legitimate questions and concerns, it
turns the tables by putting YOU on a guilt-trip for:
---asking questions in the first place
---judging their beliefs, actions, etc. without 'knowing them'
---doubting their sincerity
---rejecting their authority.
The cult-spirit is especially attracted to fervent moves of God, attempting to detour
leaders and churches into its grasp. Often it succeeds. Susceptible people lack the ability to discern controlling leadership; or they are controllers themselves and that's what attracted them to the group. They ignore or excuse common-sense warning signs at each step of involvement, until they are immersed in the cult and fully under its sway. To get out requires one or more precipitating events-- often many increasingly troubling experiences that expose the leader's /group's errors in unmistakeable terms.
Fast and pray that God would arrange situations that will reveal this group's errors to your brother, in a way that is tailor-made for him. Pray that the weakness he is most likely to see and understand, will be shown to him very soon. That something will happen to shake his confidence in the group's teachings.
"Force may make hypocrites, but it can never make converts." --William Penn |
amazed_one
New member
Username: amazed_one
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.47.8.77
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:21 pm: |
|
I appreciate the fact that y'all have such good relationships here on FACTNet. I was wondering how often you (aging_mom) meet with these good folk who love God and correspond here. If you only know them through written word how do you know the fruit of their life? How can you know they are not the BTK killer, who was a "good" person (by the testimony of those who went to church with him where he was a leader)?! |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.58.94
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 1:38 pm: |
|
I just received another email (unsolicited) from one of the 'Indy' contacts telling me that I've acted in a proud, shameful, divisive, unChristlike (etc.) way by posting their responses on FactNet (a 'secretive, slandering chat room'). He says I have made 'slanderous accusations publically'. He warns me (underlined, in red) that I ought to repent for these actions.
The book excerpts I posted here from 'Back to the Basics' have been changed, possibly due to this thread! A letter of explanation is posted on that page: http://www.allathisfeet.com/basics/index.html . You have to download the (revised) PDF to see the change on the last page.
I'm just very grateful for FactNet right now and that I can post these troubling things somewhere so that others can know. I'm always grateful when folks are honest and share their personal experiences concerning particular groups, whether in person or here in a public forum. That's what I'm trying to do, too.
If I had positive, encouraging things to say about 'Indy', I would have posted it gladly, because some of their materials looked good. But that is not what's happened. Instead my concerns and fears have multiplied. And for them to change a book, and their website, in response to questions, etc.... what do you guys think of this?
Maleman did not start this thread with 'slanderous accusations'. He posted his own personal experiences with a brother who is involved with a branch of this group in Columbus, Ohio. The emails I received from the three contacts with 'Indy' stuff on their websites alarmed me. I felt an obligation to post them, and my own personal 'take' on Christian cult-type groups. I'm no expert but I am a 'concerned consumer'. |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 1:14 am: |
|
Hello all...I didnt start this to have names thrown around. I am simply looking for some honest and considerate search of truth. Light has a way of bringing out the truth and that's what I was hoping.
I should have not have shared a portion of my brother's email and I publicly apologize for that. I should have not have called Mike the "wizard behind the curtain" -- It wasnt cute and it was wrong.
David |
fyi
New member
Username: fyi
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:58 am: |
|
A newspaper article from about 12 years ago. Sorry, but it is no longer online or I would link to it. Is this the best way to get information? Frobably not. But, it is one of the few things that has entered into the public arena about them. Because it is long I will split it up into 2 posts. FYI
Deaths in Switzerland cult put focus on religious sects --- Ex-member sees signs of cult in local group
By Terry Horne, The Indianapolis News, October 7, 1994, page A01
Dennis Elslager was confused and lonely when he met Michael H. Peters in Tampa, Fla., about three years ago.
Peters, a member of a Christian group that sometimes referred to itself as “the Body,” or “the church of Indianapolis,” offered him fellowship and a place to live.
Elslager decided to join the Indianapolis man and his brethren. “I thought they were pretty serious with God,” he said.
Instead, he discovered that he had joined a cult.
In the wake of the deaths this week in Switzerland of 48 men, women and children linked to a little-known group called the Order of the Solar Temple, public attention is again focusing on religious sects — as it did after other cult incidents:
The deaths in 1993 of 85 Branch Davidians by fire or gunshot in Waco, Texas.
The deaths in 1978 of 913 members of the People’s Temple when they drank a cyanide-laced punch or were shot to death in Guyana.
While these are dramatic examples of cult-related tragedies, the daily dealings of these groups often remain hidden.
Organizations such as the Cult Awareness Network allege that cults are far more common than most people realize. And many anti-cultists lump together established groups such as the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses with Branch Davidians and the People’s Temple.
All these groups, they say, are just as controlling over their members’ lives.
Such statements confound people who study religion.
Anson Shupe, a sociology professor at Indiana University at Fort Wayne, is the author of a book that takes a critical look at Mormonism.
But to label the Mormon Church a cult — as some cult-experts did this week on television news shows — “is an absurd proposition,” Shupe maintains.
Shupe listed this academic definition of a cult: A small organization with a simple social structure and a simple chain of command. It has unusual religious beliefs. And it has a charismatic leader.
By that definition, Shupe said, Jesus and the 12 disciples were a cult and so were Charles Manson and his followers.
The public view of a cult may be closer to the views of Augusta Harting, an ex-Mormon who founded an Indianapolis area support group, Families Against Cults, 13 years ago.
Harting contends cults are groups that try to control or dominate their members. And they share some characteristics:
The leader or leaders aren’t accountable to anyone.
The groups tend to be secretive and adopt an “us vs. them,” mentality.
Intense pressure is brought on anyone who tries to quit. |
fyi
New member
Username: fyi
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:04 am: |
|
---Part 2 newspaper article continued----
Elslager, who came to Indianapolis to join “the Body,” said the group exhibited some cult characteristics.
He said it seemed reclusive — disdainful and distrustful of other Christian groups.
Most of its 500 or so members lived in a cluster of three Northwestside apartment complexes.
Peters was regarded as an apostle, a prophet-like figure, said Elslager, 30.
Elslager said the group was trying to control his life. His fellow roommates would get upset even if he played his guitar alone. Everything had to be done for the group, he said.
Peters, 37, laughs softly when told about Elslager’s description of the group as controlling.
“Well, you know there are several hundred people that would disagree with that,” he said.
Peters described the church as a group of people who desire to follow the teachings of Jesus.
“There really isn’t any official name,” he said. “It’s basically people that have decided they just want to be plain Christians without any labels.”
Peters declined to say how many members there are. He said not all members live in the same apartment complexes although he acknowledged there might be “clusters of people in parts of the city.”
Peters, an engineer, has no formal title or leadership role in the church.
Instead, he said he merely has a role. “I like to think I can help people to know Jesus better. I’m definitely visible here.”
Visible to members, perhaps.
The church, which was formed about nine years ago, has no building.
Elslager said meetings were called spontaneously while he was a member from late December 1991 until February 1992. Smaller meetings were held in apartments. Large meetings were held in a rented hall at a service club, the Indianapolis Zoo and a convalescent home. |
fyi
New member
Username: fyi
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:06 am: |
|
---Part 3 newspaper article continued----
The church of Indianapolis’ low-key visibility isn’t unusual.
Shupe says that’s because most cults and sects don’t cause the public problems.
“There are small groups around, but the fact that nobody knows much about them is because they’re not causing a lot of trouble,” he said.
The faith-healing sect called Faith Assembly, however, attracted widespread attention in the mid 1980s when northeast Indiana authorities determined that nearly 100 members had died of treatable illnesses or injuries.
The Rev. Hobart E. Freeman reportedly taught followers that medicine was the work of the devil. Freeman was charged with aiding the death of a 15-year-old girl. But he died of his own ailments, all thought to be treatable, before the trial began.
Other sects have occasionally attracted public notice.
In 1988 and 1989, anti-cult groups began receiving complaints about the Indianapolis Church of Christ. A year later, Butler University and Marian College both denied the group access to campus facilities, citing its high-pressure recruiting tactics.
Shupe, however, said he believes the public fear about cults is largely misplaced.
While anti-cultists sometimes focus on apparently bizarre rituals, they forget how strange some traditional religious rites may seem.
For example, Shupe said he and some colleagues once described a sect that took virgin women, shaved their heads and made them eat the simulated flesh of their leader. He was describing a Catholic convent.
Anti-cultists often do the same, Shupe contends. “They create these caricatures of all these unconventional religious groups.”
Shupe says when authorities ask about the dangers of cults, he tells them to worry about more important matters, such as drive-by shootings. “That’s a real danger,” he said.
Harting contends that such groups, however, can destroy the lives of members and wreak havoc on their families.
“We get the fallout. We get the people who are wounded and damaged, in our support group,” she said.
Harting said Families Against Cults has helped some members leave Peters’ group.
One was Elslager, who said he first tried to talk to Peters about his doubts.
Peters took him to a local restaurant for breakfast. In front of several aides, Peters then began reading out loud a list of the sins Elslager had confessed when joining the church.
“Basically, it put me in tears. I said, ‘Why are you doing this?’” Elslager said.
“In his mind, what he was doing was to humble me before I spoke to him. He will not let up until you are in with him.”
Elslager said he persuaded Peters that he no longer had any doubts. “That was the only way I could get free,” he said.
But after he left the restaurant, he called the Families Against Cults helpline. The group gave him a place to stay. |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:16 am: |
|
(1/5)
Dear "FactNet" members:
Let me introduce myself. My name is Dan. I'm a research scientist who runs a lab at the Ohio State University. And I'm part of the Columbus, OH, church that has been labeled by anonymous writers on this website as "truly exhibiting cultic behavior." And the brother of "MaleMan" is my neighbor and close friend.
I'm writing because, although my children, my friends, and I have done no wrong to any of you, you've chosen to slander us behind our backs. I don't expect an apology. I don't expect anyone on this group to admit that they were wrong. But I do feel that it's necessary to record some facts on this thread, since many have already read the accusations on it already and others will no doubt read them in the future. I will be totally truthful in what I say, and confine myself to matters I have first hand knowledge about.
"Maleman" himself will not be the subject of this letter. As he is the only person I have any hope of contacting personally, I (or someone else in the church) will handle it that way instead of addressing him publicly here. When someone sins against you, you're supposed to go to him directly (Matthew 18). Jesus said so. So that's how we're going to handle it. But since the rest of you are cloaked in anonymity, I'm going to write you this open letter.
For the record, none of us in the church here has ever been on factnet before. A friend who is not a part of the church happened to stumble across this thread. He recognized some of the names and publications on it and so alerted us to it.
Although none of you has visited us or asked us any questions, there have been reckless conjectures made about our church, and highly judgmental conclusions reached as a result. "Lookatall" spins a rather wild tale of "the cult" that "wear weird clothes, and preach a lot," "live communally and have some sort of school," most of them "in their thirties and early forties" who quite possibly "survive by selling bread" as they "travel about in a van or schoolbus." Their leader (wait--they don't believe in leaders--well, anyway) is a Californian, or maybe a Kentuckian. At any rate he has a "questionable history." He's very worried that MaleMan has no idea where his brother is and can "feel his pain." And, oh yes, they are "dismissive of families." |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:22 am: |
|
(2 of 5)
The TRUTH is that NONE of these conjectures is an accurate description of our church. Not a single one! We don't live communally. I own my own single family home in the suburbs. Not a single member of the church lives with more than one family under one roof. There is no common bank account or "purse." Each of the men of working age is gainfully employed and deposits his paycheck in his own bank account. Communes aren't biblical, and history has shown repeatedly that they don't work. We don't do that. We don't "travel in a bus." I own two vehicles, a family minivan (seats seven) and a small car that I use to commute to work. Nobody in the church owns anything bigger than an SUV. The church corporately doesn't own a vehicle, or any property, for that matter. We don't wear weird clothes. That would kind of be hard to do. Like I say, I'm a research scientist. Other close friends include a home builder; the owner of a chain of restaurants; an engineer; accountants at "Big Four" accounting firms; a computer programmer with one of the largest employers in town; a help desk supervisor; a graphic designer; and so on. We wouldn't want to wear weird clothes, but even if we did, they wouldn't play too well in corporate America. They also wouldn't fit in too well on the golf course. Not a single person sells bread, unless you want to count the restaurant owner. Oh, yeah, there are more people in their 50's than in their 30's. Most people would view me as a one of the leaders here. I have my issues, but I don't think a "questionable history" would be accurate. I've been married to the same woman for 22 years and worked for the same employer for 20. I have no criminal record of any kind--I've never even had a speeding ticket!
As for the "dismissive of families" allegation, it is equally groundless. Maleman has known all along his brother's exact address, his home phone number, office phone number, cell phone number, and e-mail address. They have corresponded countless times over the past few years. The brother, my neighbor, visited Maleman in his home back a couple of years ago. They spoke on the phone just last week. Again, without getting into Maleman's part, the fact is that this is an internal family matter that in my judgment should have stayed that way. The brother who is my neighbor has declined to invite his brother to visit for specific reasons that are nobody's business on this discussion group. This isn't some sort of "policy" in our church. This is one man having a personal conviction that one other individual should not come to his home right at this point. There's absolutely nothing "cultic" about that. During the same period, *many* people in the church have had parents or siblings or other relatives visit them. Others have gone to great lengths and personal expense to care for aging or ailing relatives. I myself just returned from a trip out of state to attend a niece's wedding and to check on my father's medical care. We engage physical family members when we can. Not a single person has ever written or taught that it's somehow more "spiritual" to reject a family member than it is to serve and care for them in ways that we can. |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:31 am: |
|
(3/5)
Those, folks, are the honest facts. Here's another one: our church is composed of evangelical Christians. I have been saved by grace through faith in what Jesus has done for me on the cross, and through His empty tomb. I'm brought near to God through His blood--period. There is not a single item that I'm aware of in my teachings or thoughts that would be viewed as heretical by Luther or Wesley. In our church, we enjoy reading and sharing the classic writings of Spurgeon, Chambers, Murray, and Tozier. And we read the Bible, all 66 books of it. We don't even use any special version. And, no, we've never thought that people with leaders or buildings are apostate. You can't document it, because we've never believed it or taught it. We have relationships with people from dozens of different denominations who meet in all kinds of settings.
In my heart of hearts, I believe that you guys have been judging and slandering a group of simple, evangelical believers based on ignorance and conjecture. And please let me remind you of something: we're all real people, with real feelings, with families and loved ones we hate to see criticized by strangers. Why you feel like you have free reign to do that is frankly beyond my ability to fathom.
I also have to take issue with the *way* you have done that. AgingMom, you asked the question, "Is it okay that I've posted these emails or am I violating a rule somewhere. Let me know." All right, I'm letting you know. You should have asked, "Am I violating the law in doing this?" The answer would be yes. Anything a person writes is copyrighted, whether it's marked that way or not. You don't have a legal right to reproduce large chunks something--including an e-mail--without the writer's permission. Now that's civil law, not criminal, and nobody's going to sue you. But it is considered a serious breach of ethics, not to mention gossip. Frankly, it's also just plain mean. One other point of clarification: you complain about receiving unsolicited e-mails. The fact is, *all* of the e-mails *you* wrote were unsolicited. The e-mails you cut and pasted were replies. You're anonymous, remember? Nobody could write you unless you wrote them (unsolicited) first. I might also mention that you edited some of the reply e-mails before you posted them. Your unsolicited e-mails had a rather caustic, critical tone to them. Your complaints sound a little bit like someone who slaps another person, then criticizes them for saying "ouch" rather than "turning the other cheek" like a "good Christian is supposed to do." But I'll leave that to you to sort through. |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:36 am: |
|
(4/5)
I would like to spend a little time to address the "anonymity" issue, since it seems to be your main criticism of me, my children, and my friends.
First, I just have to point out how deeply ironic I found the entire discussion on this point. "Cybermom" says, "Sorry, anonymity (sp?) is a real turnoff for me." "Agingmom" agrees: "The anonymity-jazz is not cool." She goes on: "In all honesty, I'm not thrilled emailing people who won't post personal information on their website (like your names)." Finally, "Cybermom" exclaims: "Why would I read something if I don't know who wrote it, where they are 'coming from' and what group they represent? There are too many weirdos on the internet to haphazardly read just anything." The irony in all this? "Cybermom" and "Agingmom" and the whole gang are posting...ANONYMOUSLY! Cybermom herself has posted at least 462 comments over the past 15 months, all of them anonymous. And the entire discussion thread can be summed up as people haphazardly reading stuff on the internet posted by folks they don't know, representing unidentified groups! Can we all just laugh at ourselves a minute here and admit that a serious double standard has been applied as to what jazz is "cool" and what jazz is "not cool"?
(By the way, that's not the only irony obvious in this thread. The same person wrote, "Demonstrate Jesus' love to them at every opportunity," went on to write, "What a snotty, sarcastic response. He really shows the fruit of their ministry, huh?" But I digress.)
We at the church here have been leaving our personal names (other than initials or first names) off of our written stuff for at least 15 years. When we made that decision, it simply never dawned on us that we would actually be criticized for it one day. It seemed to us that we were solidly within a historical tradition within the Christian faith. Despite AgingMom's claims to the contrary, three books of the New Testament--Matthew, Mark, and Hebrews--are anonymous. The universally admired classic on prayer attributed to the "Unknown Christian" obviously is, too. So, like I say, the idea of anonymity being an automatic "red flag" never has been raised to me until I read these posts. It's what I've chosen, but I've never condemned others for choosing otherwise. How strange it seems that some would condemn me! But for anyone who actually might be interested, here were three of my personal reasons for choosing to leave my name off my writings.
First, I simply don't want to promote myself in any way. Last week I was on the website of an internationally known Christian writer and teacher. On it, there was a book for sale entitled, "Important Things I Have Learned," with his name and smiling portrait adorning the cover. Another book offered was volume one of an autobiography detailing his incredible successes in the naval academy of his country before becoming a clergyman. I just couldn't do that, personally, with a clear conscience. The simplest solution to me was simply to leave my name and smiling mug off of the books. |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:43 am: |
|
(5/5)
Second, we are not in the business of promoting our church, either. We're not trying to do a sales job so that people will want to "move here" or "join us." Many have wanted that over the years, but most we lovingly discourage if we can. Why? Because we don't have any ambition to grow or become powerful or well-known. We want people who read our books or listen to our CDs to be inspired and challenged to live full blast for Jesus *in the place where they currently live, with the relationships they already have, among the assemblies of believers they already are part of.* Some new movement isn't our goal. Lifting Jesus up and edifying His people, in whatever way we can, is. Promoting "me" as an individual or "us" as a group just isn't too compatible with that.
Third, let me tell who what used to happen way back when. I used to think, "I want to be accountable for what I write, so the highest way surely would be to put my name, address, and phone number on every publication." Guess what? While I was away at work, my wife would have to field phone calls from some pretty scary characters at times. Once, a group from another state that *did* wear funny clothes and go by made-up Hebrew names drove up in their big van unannounced and uninvited, piled out into my yard, and rang my doorbell. That was not fun. A few experiences like that were all it took to convince me that I had been naïve and irresponsible to put my personal information on the publications. I still want to be accountable and reachable. To date, I haven't heard from a single person who has found a PO Box and an e-mail address too restrictive. We do hear from people, and we have been just one step away from meeting people and making new friends. It's worked great.
And, I might add, look what you guys did to the man who *did* put his name on the back of the book he wrote. He was an innocent bystander in all this. He also, by the way, is one of the kindest, most loving humans I have ever met--generous to a fault. I really feel for him. "The wizard behind the curtain"--wow.
I'm going to close there. My family and dearest friends have been slandered, and nothing's going to change that. But maybe, just maybe, this letter will keep somebody else's family and friends from being slandered. If so, it was worth my time.
'Bye, all. |
amazed_one
New member
Username: amazed_one
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.47.8.77
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 8:33 am: |
|
} I have only recently begun to read this string. I have read the entire thing and, as my user name suggests, have been amazed. I have been in contact with some of the people being slandered here for many years. As I read the postings I was amazed at the absolute authoritarian inaccuracy of the statements being made by people who clearly had never met those about whom they were speaking (everyone but maleman).
Amazing! Especially when Jesus made very clear His desire for us to (I know onetimeposter already quoted this) “go to him and him alone” until we needed help working through it. Even then He still expressed a desire for us to do that together (bring one or two others into the interaction with you). I know that the thing I want to do most as a disciple is give Jesus what He desires. I kind of assume that’s what others who wear His name would want too.
Anyway, as I said, I have known some of these folks for nearly two decades now. It is amazing to me the discussion of hiddenness about a group who is quite easy to locate and have real discourse with. I have never, nor have I ever heard of anyone who has been unable to contact and even meet with the people so characterized. As a matter of fact I can name many people I know personally who have had contact with the individuals you are talking about with no research at all; just an email or letter and bod-a-bing contact.
I have been reading and listening to materials generously given to me for a very long time. I have tried to share those teachings with other Christians I have known through the years. Early on I treated the teachings of Jesus as if they were something to be understood in my mind. I pursued them so as to believe them. I shared them with others that way too. I found a whole bunch of people who were more than willing to join in that endeavor. |
amazed_one
New member
Username: amazed_one
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.47.8.77
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 8:35 am: |
|
As I began to be frustrated with a life that never really bore divine fruit and with relationships that had the same temporal realm shallowness, I became aware of a different emphasis in the teachings of Jesus and the writings of the Apostles. Jesus said, “If you obey to my teachings, THEN you are My disciples, Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” Amazing!
Knowing truth came AFTER obeying. In another place He says we are building on the right foundation if we put His teachings into PRACTICE. If we choose to practice things in a way other than the way He offers we will come to ruin. That is HIS testimony. Boy did that apply to the Christianity I had walked in up to that point.
The teachings that I first started to read/listen to from Indy focused on obeying Jesus and putting His teachings into practice. There wasn’t all this theology to describe what Jesus or an Apostle really meant when he said something. It was simple. When Paul said that if you live by the Spirit you will NOT (how often is not) gratify the desires of the flesh he meant what he said. I don’t have to do mental gymnastics to see that if I find myself gratifying the desires of the flesh I am NOT living by the Spirit.
The interaction I had with people from Indy was mostly through email and letters and an occasional phone conversation. Always cordial, never elusive they were willing to offer their thoughts along with a caveat that I needed to be sincere in going to Father to hear His voice and do what I did in faith that it was what He was directing me to do.
As I began to apply that a metamorphosis began to take place in my own relationship to Jesus. Boy did the fire come too. Most of the people who were very willing to agree with teachings and even repeat them to others became quite offended when you asked them about why something they were doing didn’t look like Jesus. It got downright nasty and all that was asked was why the thing didn’t look like Him. When there was clear sin that was addressed it got even worse. |
amazed_one
New member
Username: amazed_one
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.47.8.77
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 8:39 am: |
|
I will try to wrap up what could be a long conversation. I am now involved in relationships with a few (that too is the testimony of our King and the One who knows these things) people, where I am, who truly desire to make Jesus their ACTUAL King. Those relationships have been developed over a long time and ARE bearing divine fruit. I have had input, including books and tapes available to anyone, from people in Indianapolis and in Columbus Ohio. I have had input from a bunch of dead guys (physically dead anyway) who seemed to know Jesus too (like Chambers and Finney and Spurgeon etc).
I have never been pressured nor rejected by anyone in Indy or Columbus any more than I have by those dead guys. I am pretty sure when Chambers shared the things he learned at Jesus’ feet he hoped beyond hope that some could be helped to know Jesus better themselves-just like the living guys in Indy and Columbus hope.
To be more specific; though I am not independent of the brothers and sisters whom I know and love in my family, wherever they may live, I am responsible to my Papa who loves me and provides for me through others. I have been battling to become an obedient son as I put in to practice my Lord’s teachings wherever I hear them from. You see I am a sheep and I do hear my Shepherd’s voice.
My question to you all is why do you fear? Who can force you to do what you do not will to do? Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were not able to be forced against their will in much more dire circumstances than anyone who faces “cult pressure” today. Can we please take responsibility for ourselves and trust our Father who loves us and promised that if we put our trust in Him we would NEVER come to shame? (Better make sure I’m putting what HE defines as trust in Him)
Instead of looking at people and teachings and sharing’s with a critical eye why don’t we examine what in our desires and demands for our life do those teachings threaten. I have EXPERIENCE that if I do that I discover what in me is keeping me from more intimacy with a very intimate God. And I also have experience that when I so take responsibility for myself I do not have to fear. Cuz in that decision the only one any of us needs to fear is exposed before a God who promised to deliver me from me. Amazing!!!!! |
amazed_one
New member
Username: amazed_one
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.47.8.77
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 8:57 am: |
|
PS I figure there is someone in this string who has already realized down deep that there has been something wrong with this “chat” approach to truth. If so please consider digging in with Papa on that to the place you find conviction as to His desires. If you do and you choose to live out of that you will be blessed. |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.24
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 9:20 am: |
|
Thanks onetimeposter for clearing some things up in a manner without resorting to thuggery. I know that you don't live in a commune, drive vans, or dress weird -- those accusations were just very off.
The old news article posted above does deserve to be dealt with and trust it will be done so respectfully.
And your anonymity defense seems reasonable.
I am looking forward to talking with you offline. I pray that there will be resolution to all of this.
David |
fyi1
New member
Username: fyi1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
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The organization, Families Against Cults, has had some experience with members seeking to leave the Indianapolis group. They are based in Indiana.
Here is a link with contact information:
http://www.familiesagainstcults.org/contact.php
I believe they will be willing to give some information regarding their experiences with this group. |
amazed_one
New member
Username: amazed_one
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.47.8.77
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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I am sorrowful for some of the alteration and misrepresentation that some of the posters to this string have participated in. I am still amazed that the things shared by different people have not helped people to become less antagonistic and attacking. An example of the misrepresentation can be seen in a letter referenced by aging mom. The person writing this letter is not "an Indy contact". He is a man who was INITIALLY contacted by aging mom in her attempt to be an intelligence gatherer and uncover the group that maleman (obviously something is changing there) had some grudges toward.
Her involvement was a result of;
1) Maleman handling his hurt and anger in a way that was other than Jesus teaches, (Mat 18, Mat 5)
2) Aging mom pursuing unknown men from around the country without her husband which is also clearly against the teachings of Jesus and dishonors her head at the most basic of levels, (1 Cor 11, 1 Tim 2)
3) Multiple people participating in gossip behind the backs of others with people they don’t even know, (1 Cor 6,2 Cor 12)
4) Multiple people encouraging and participating in divisiveness with and against people they know nothing about which clearly is a temptation for her. By the way Paul tells Titus to warn a divisive person and have nothing to do with them after the second warning.
There have clearly been enough warnings here. With hope that the lamb that was slain receives the reward of His suffering which is everything this string is not…
Please reconsider the path you are taking, repent and find ways of being involved in constructively laying your lives down for people right where you live. The hope is that we would all learn to be true disciples of Jesus by “teaching them (and learning ourselves) to obey EVERYTHING that I commanded”. Seems like that was a major part of what Jesus wanted His disciples to be about. He deserves us turning our energies to that.
I will be praying for your reconciliation maleman. I know you can trust Papa to get you through to the other side!
 |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 140.254.105.36
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 8:45 am: |
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Well, I really did intend to post only once. But since David asked, I will post the information I have about the 12-year old copyrighted newspaper article that was posted anonymously on this thread. Here goes: |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 140.254.105.36
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 8:54 am: |
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This message has been removed by FactNet per the request of the original poster, "onetimeposter".
(Message edited by dannydawg5 on April 17, 2006) |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 140.254.105.36
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 9:13 am: |
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Well, I agree totally that assessment, especially the last sentence. So this time, I really am outta here. I'm done with "FACTNet." But first, I do want to sum up my impressions during my brief visit... |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 140.254.105.36
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 9:40 am: |
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Do you really want to be involved in FACTNet? I noticed on the front page they awarded the staff of a South Park TV their highest honor this year. That’s a TV show of which one positive reviewer exclaimed, “It's rife with scatological humor, suggestive sexual situations, political incorrectness, and gleeful, rampant vulgarity.” I also noticed on the front page FACTnet’s mission statement, which says that they want to be to “fundamentalism” (not just destructive cults; we’re talking conservative Baptists now) what “Amnesty International is to torture.” Wow.
I know that there are some abused, hurt people out there who have been disillusioned by the whole topic of religion. They need help, understanding, and an offer of Unconditional Love. But do you really think that FACTNet is the way to do that? Isn’t there something fundamentally flawed with a system based on anonymous posting with zero possible accountability? Isn’t a system that invites pooling of ignorance and unsubstantiated rumors and ecclesiastical urban legends simply ripe for abuse? And what of the spiritual abuse inflicted on the falsely accused who--unlike defendants in secular courts of law--have no right to know the identity of their accusers or examine hard evidence against them, and who are presumed guilty until proven innocent?
There just has to be a better way, people. Think about it. Could it be that these forums are actually causing more hurts than they are preventing or healing? That’s what I think. But it’s your call. Nobody’s trying to “control” you. Do you what you think you gotta do. But I think you’re capable of something far better--all of you. As for me, I’m out of here. |
fyi1
New member
Username: fyi1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 3:55 am: |
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The Indianapolis group was founded by Mike Peters, who used to be a pastor in the Church of Christ denomination in Vermont. He left there with a group of people and moved to Indianapolis. (Maleman, he is the guy you heard on the mp3 files you listened to.) He is very clearly the main voice and the driving force behind the group. Although his name is on only one of the books, a huge majority of the teachings that are on the websites they run are his writings. There are groups of people in different parts of the US and various countries of the world who have bought into his teaching and associated with Indy. Mike Peters also is the probably the the first contact you will have with Indy. Anybody who seeks to contact them through email will almost always be responded to directly by Mike. So, he essentially functions as the gatekeeper of outside interactions. Although they eschew the use of titles, there is no doubt that Mike is the leader. fyi |
fyi1
New member
Username: fyi1
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 4:28 am: |
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One of Mike's teachings that is very strong among Indy and associated groups is one against "family idolatry". In this teaching, your only true family is your spiritual one. In practice, it has caused many people to cut off from biological family members (grandparents, parents, brothers and sisters) who are not in agreement with Indy teachings. This, I believe, is what caused this thread to start in the first place. In the next post I will include quotes. |
fyi1
New member
Username: fyi1
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 204.50.22.10
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 4:35 am: |
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Here are some quotes from one of Mike's writings:
"You see, if folks grow up with you, they think they have every right to judge you incompetent and ridicule you in their familiarity. IF you have unBelieving relatives who will not live for, nor die for Jesus (it's only cultural religion, or superstitious candle-burning, or business contacts, or buddies)... and they have no grievance with you, because nothing is at stake... you cannot be walking with Jesus."
"While obviously Jesus was addressing religious hypocrisy, to those who were loveless religionists, there is a point made here that mustn't be missed. Certainly God does recognize the need to respect biological parents, and heads of households (as well as earthly pagan leaders, bosses at work, at all sorts of authorities - as long as they don't ask you to violate your conscience or disobey the Higher Authority, Jesus). At the same time, for someone to say "honor your father and mother" means you should allow any human to "steal your crown..." "Judge for yourselves whether it's better to obey God or man." We cannot, even if it costs us our very physical life, allow ANY human to bully us or sway us or emotionally blackmail us into compromise or into their lukewarmness. "Honoring" them means, as it would with a judge of a human court (titled "Your Honor") that we are not disrespectful or insulting or cruel or less than sacrificial. Yet, "honoring" does not mean that we have to allow the "judge" that we "honor" to take our children away for the weekend on a fishing trip, to impart his morals and evils upon them. "Honoring" does NOT mean "fellowship" or even "trust" - regardless of their Spiritual state."
See this link for context: http://www.yourkingdomcome.com/physicalphamily.htm |
sigh
New member
Username: sigh
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 164.107.187.29
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 8:46 am: |
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Hi, “fyi”
It’s puzzling why you are carrying yourself the way you are. Instead of repeatedly posting accusations and allegations, and your own interpretation of what “they believe,” why not simply ask them what they believe and engage in an honest, open dialog about it? It seems that you’ve prejudged these people and are now trying to dig up anything you can to support your predetermined view. You post second-, third-, fourth, and etc-hand “information” rather than just communicating with folks. That’s how it strikes me.
Here’s some guesswork that you published as if it were substantiated fact. You named an individual’s name and called him a “gatekeeper.” You said that if a reader tried to contact someone via e-mail or whatever, that this “gatekeeper” would answer any and all contacts. That’s not true. You should know that, even based on the evidence in this thread. When Aging Mom decided to do some covert information gathering, she tried three websites with information on them from the church you’re accusing. She clicked three e-mail links, and got three different people in three different cities. She got replies from each of them. Doesn’t that disprove your point already?
I myself have distributed thousands of documents, both written and electronic, over the years. Some from the church in Indianapolis under discussion, some from my church, and some from other believers over the years and over the miles. The return address on every single envelope or package is my own—not anyone else’s in another city. And the reply e-mail address is always my own, and goes directly to me. Where’s the gatekeeper you’re talking about?
You also say that virtually all of the teachings on the website can be traced to this same individual. That’s factually incorrect, too. I know many of these people personally, and I’d estimate that there are over thirty members of the church who have authored or co-authored publications on the site. I myself have written several of the books and booklets that are offered, and I’ve never even lived in the state of Indiana.
You obviously have no idea how these people function. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that you have some ideas, but they are wrong. They take the scripture in 1 Cor 14 about Christian gatherings very seriously. “When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation... Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.” There simply isn’t one person who dominates the meetings, ever. Unlike the “control” exercised in most assemblies of Christians around the world, there are never pre-determined speakers or topics. It’s always open microphone, everyone has equal opportunity at it, and everyone feels a responsibility to consider if there’s something they can share.
Now you know. But why couldn’t you have just asked first? |
sigh
New member
Username: sigh
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 164.107.187.29
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 9:02 am: |
|
Now for the misrepresentation that these teachings are somehow "anti-family." Again, you never asked any questions of clarification; you simply quoted a few sentences from a multi-page document, drew some accusational inferences, and posted them. So I asked someone I know to share her own experience with the outworkings of the "teachings about family" in the Indianapolis church. She is a lady her mid-fifties who's raised three children, a college graduate with a degree in education. I've known her since the late 1980's. She's a very credible source. The mother-in-law referred to is a non-Christian. She is senile and is so not capable of being "indoctrinated" She's also a widow and virtually penniless.
"My husband’s sister is a part of the Church in Indianapolis. A few years ago my husband asked his sister and her husband if they would consider having my husband’s invalid mother come and live with them. His mother had been in a nursing home for a couple of years. We knew that would require lifting her and very much work. After prayerfully considering the possibility, my sister in law decided she would care for her mother, but it was impossible to do by herself. Several women in the church there learned how to help transfer my mother in law from bed to wheelchair. Several of the women help with all aspects of her care. My husband and I visit often. We have been deeply touched by the help and love of these women in the church. Every time my husbands sister needs to transfer their mom from wheelchair to bed during the day or take her to the restroom, she calls one of these women –who are neighbors -and they come over to help. (Even though she seems to have dementia and is confused a lot of the time, she is happy and is very grateful to the women who help care for her.) And we don’t pay them to do this. About a year ago, I wanted to get gifts for the women who daily help with her care. One of these women overheard the conversation when my sister in law was discussing this with me. A few days later I received a letter from this special lady asking me not to try to repay them for helping. She said they are doing this for Jesus because it pleases Him. My husband and I are tremendously grateful. When my mother in law’s close friend died in another state, several of them, including Mike Peters, took her there. Mike Peters has also on several occasions given my mother in law calling cards so she could call her friends and her sister. When my mother in law’s sister and her sons went to Indianapolis to visit her, several in the church came over to the house and brought food, they couldn’t have been more gracious. What I know of first hand and have seen has been exemplary. I have often said that nowhere else have I ever seen such kindness and Christ likeness. I have personally been humbled and convicted by their love and sacrifice. And, on a few occasions, one of them has talked to me about something in my life that was less then Christ-like and/or sin. I suppose I could have gotten prideful and angry and lashed out at them, but I have counted it as a blessing from Jesus to know people who are so caring for Jesus and for me, that they would come to me and talk to me face to face rather than talk to others behind my back. It is actually refreshing. I have benefited from knowing them and count them as true friends and brothers and sisters in Christ that I am privileged to know.
"It grieves me and hurts me and I believe it hurts and dishonors Jesus for these people, His friends and servants to be gossiped about and slandered as I have come to find out that they have been. I pray that whoever is slandering them will choose to turn away from that and spend their lives more productively, serving others who are in need as these lovely Christians have been doing. I am forever grateful to God for their help and kindnesses.
"Sincerely, C." |
sigh
New member
Username: sigh
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 164.107.187.29
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 9:15 am: |
|
Finally, let me quote from an e-mail sent yesterday by Dan, the university research scientist, to a few friends. (It's ok with Dan.) It seems like a fitting conclusion to this discussion.
"I’ve worked in science a long time now. I’ve been on the editorial board of a major journal for the past decade and reviewed hundreds of submitted articles to see whether they are worthy of publication. It’s just amazing how different the standard is for determining 'truth' in that environment.
"A scientific manuscript has a predetermined format. First, the authors provide contact information so that someone can discuss the paper with them in the future, if it’s published. Next, they write the 'introduction,' where they summarize the previously published information available on the research topic. Third, there’s a 'materials and methods' section, where the authors spell out every experimental method in meticulous detail, even telling people where they can obtain the supplies they need, so that if someone doesn’t believe them, they can go out and repeat the experiments for themselves. Fourth, there is a 'results' section in which the results of the experiment are documented, with hard evidence—measurements, photographs, diagrams, graphs, whatever is appropriate. Fifth, there is a 'discussion' section where the authors interpret the implications of their results. Their conclusions have to be based on evidence documented in the paper. Speculation will kill the paper; it will never get published. And the when the authors draw a conclusion, they have to list all the other reasonable alternatives they can think of, and give the pros and cons of each. Sixth comes the 'acknowledgments' section, which is basically where the authors disclose who paid for the research (to get all of their potential biases on the table). And last comes the references, which lists all of the previous work that the author used for getting his ideas for the experiments or drawing his conclusions.
"Every manuscript is examined by an editor and 2-4 external reviewers, who are experienced, seasoned scientists in the field. They decide whether the manuscript complies with these standards and deserves to be published. If they see problems, they engage in a dialog with the authors to help them correct the problem—and listen, if the authors want to explai n themselves better. Then, and only then, is the paper published. The paper’s conclusions aren’t necessarily right—even scientists admit that. But the process insures that the paper’s authors have enough integrity and credibility that their ideas deserve to be considered. That keeps journals from just being a pooling of ignorance. Unlike an internet discussion group. It's sad that my colleagues in science, many of whom are atheists, have more respect for ethical standards and more of a commitment to being factual and accurate than many professing Christians." |
aging_mom
New member
Username: aging_mom
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.0.59.71
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 3:16 am: |
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Thank you, fyi1, for the new information about Mike Peters and the Indy church.
The powers-that-be on 'All at His Feet' have just posted a new (anonymous) page in response to this thread:
http://www.allathisfeet.com/chatrooms
An excerpt: "These bag-over-the-head experts are nearly always hypocritically twisting the truth and leaving out crucial information that would discredit their evil cause."
....their evil cause..... {{{sigh}}}
I am shaking my head in somber disbelief at the many violent reactions posted here. You guys think *we* have some sort of vendetta against you. Would you please slow down and look at what *we* are seeing 'out here' --- an entire website full of materials with no bylines; a page in an online book changed because I posted troubling statements from it; sarcastic, haughty answers to valid questions and concerns; demeaning comments directed at me as a woman, chastising me as though this is some kind of acceptable church discipline.
To all you Indianapolis folks, Columbus folks, Mike Peters, amazed_one, onetimeposter, sigh, and everyone else connected with this ministry: The detailed reasons you have posted for maintaining anonymity are not enough, will never be enough, IMHO, to outweigh the deep distrust that anonymous materials engender in a lot of people. Perhaps none of you feel this way-- but many of us *out here* find the anonymity just as we've said: weird, unnecessary, off-putting, and full of red flags. It is not more Christ-like, it does not help us focus on Jesus, it only upsets us because: Jesus did not write it, somebody else did, and would this person please put his or her name on the material so we can see who it is and YES, check him out!! <ugh>
You have proven to me and my family (who have been reading these posts right along with me), by your responses both on and off the board, that you are not concerned with allaying people's legitimate fears. You are, however, *very* concerned with your images, and will vilify anyone who is having severe doubts about your sincerity. Sadly, we have seen enough to draw our own negative conclusions about your ministry and its supporters, sight unseen. Whether anyone else reading this thread will come to the same conclusions, well, that is up to them. Thankfully there's something here for anyone who needs this information.
~Aging Mom, much older than when this thread started! <grin> |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 56.0.84.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
|
This might be a good chance for the church at Indianapolis/Columbus to clarify the issues and answer some legitimate questions and to build some trust.
How about a FAQ on the home page of allathisfeet?
Answer some questions like:
"Why no names?" - You have legitimate reasons for not 'signing' your materials. It would help to explain this.
"What our meetings are like?" -- It seems that this is always of interest. Talk about a typical meeting.
"On relationships" -- talk about how you encourage others to deal with family members who belong to organized churches or who are unbelievers
"Taste and see" -- invite people to visit your group or one of the others across the world.
..and any other questions or criticisms you frequently see. All of the answers to the FAQ should be kept short and to the point.
This might be a good chance to set the record straight. Given the great information and disinformation and various sects and groups, people deserve to have some straight answers so that they dont' have to 'fill in the blanks.'
David |
cybermom
Intermediate Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 461
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
|
Good ideas, maleman, but it'll NEVER happen. The main way cults suck people in is to put up a very good front, "love bomb", and other subversive methods to draw in the unsuspecting. Then at a later date when the newbies (hopefully) see what's really going on they're already too entrenched to get out unscathed. No cult would ever put the truth out there for all to see and discern. Their main stragegies are deception and secrecy.
BTW, the cult I belonged to was very afraid of the police or any legal authority; the leader was/is very paranoid of discovery to the point of privacy fences, security cameras and locked gates. Also as far as I can tell they have NO website at all - which is very amusing, since every crackpot group and tiny church from Alaska to Maine has a website. So this cultic paranoia is also a deterrent to disclosure of any kind on any website. And since this IN group doesn't disclose anything, they are very paranoid indeed. I'm surprised they have a site at all!
Cybermom |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
|
Well, Cybermom, don't jump to conclusions here. Give them a chance. We shouldnt always presume the worst. I have had some continued dialogue with several members of the church and I think we are coming to some healthy conclusions to all of this. I am convinced that we will all grow by this if we allow Light to shine in the dark places. |
sigh
New member
Username: sigh
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 164.107.187.31
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:57 am: |
|
Hi again. I have a few thoughts, which I’ve tried to organize a bit, since they’ll get split up in 3-4 posts, I’m sure...
Prejudice
It seems obvious to me that from the very first post, the assumption has been, guilty until proven innocent--or as one person put it, “guilty from the very moment an accusation is made.” Once that prejudice is present, it really doesn’t matter what anyone else says. No matter what the response, it will be interpreted as evidence that the prejudice is indeed true (Luke 7:31-34). So here are a few thoughts, offered with a sigh, even though they are highly unlikely to change anyone’s mind...
Anonymity
There’s not much more to say on this topic, since it’s been discussed quite thoroughly already. I would like to tie up one loose end and ask one question, though. The loose end: David (aka “maleman”) was incorrect in stating that the author’s name was removed from later editions of the Meetings book. Tens of thousands of these books have been printed over the years, and every last one of them has the author’s full name on the cover. Many of the other works have either the first names or initials of the authors included, along with contact information (snail-mail and e-mail addresses). Even the term “anonymity” is stretching it a bit. The focus is taken off the authors and put on the subjects written about, for sure. The reasons for this have already been discussed; no need to re-hash them here.
Now for the question: AgingMom, you wrote, “The detailed reasons you have posted for maintaining anonymity are not enough, will never be enough, IMHO, to outweigh the deep distrust that anonymous materials engender in a lot of people. Perhaps none of you feel this way-- but many of us *out here* find the anonymity just as we've said: weird, unnecessary, off-putting, and full of red flags.” If you feel so strongly about anonymity, why do you practice it? Every post that you’ve written is anonymous, without any contact information whatsoever. Factnet is built on that foundation. You expect people to evaluate your ideas without “checking you out.” Why do you condemn and label others for something that you also do? (see Matthew 7:1-2) } |
sigh
New member
Username: sigh
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 164.107.187.31
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:15 am: |
|
“Follow the Money Trail”
One poster urged that his readers “follow the money trail.” The readers might not realize this--and certainly that poster never asked--but the “money trail” is actually a one-way street outwards from the churches. Over the past years they’ve sent back donation checks from people in 30-40 states and many foreign countries. They absolutely refuse to accept financial gifts from outside sources. They also refuse to sell any materials under any circumstances. Period. Why? Because none of them want anyone’s money. Simple, huh? Meanwhile, they send money to several third world countries; supply seeds and irrigation systems and farming in drought-stricken areas; give clothing, water purifications systems, and housing to the destitute; house widows in members’ homes or pay for them to have their own homes, several locally; adopted multi-racial children from overseas and urban ghettos; print and pay for books in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, authored by well-known, well-love deceased Christian authors. Members of the church have fed entire villages, slept in mud huts, prayed for hours, laying hands on lines 100 meters long on people with leprous boils and oozing skin diseases. And these activities are all paid voluntarily, without any coercion or even the “gentle” persuasion that often accompanies an “offertory,” by people with regular jobs, living in regular houses, not once asking for or even accepting outside help. Despite what another poster wrote, they have never once condemned another person as “apostate” for meeting in a multi-million dollar religious facility. But one reason that they don’t own a facility themselves is that it frees up the millions to give to people in need. You won’t find much mention of these activities on the web site or in the literature, because the giving has been done privately, out of the limelight, as Jesus commanded. In fact, the few who read this post are about the only people in the world, outside of those directly involved in the giving, who know. (You know, folks who are so "concerned about their reputation" should really do a better job of marketing themselves.  )
“Recruiting and Love-Bombing”
This has already been mentioned in this thread, but it bears repeating: many hundreds of people have asked to move their families to be part of the church in Indianapolis, from "pastors" to PhD's to construction workers and widows--and almost without exception they have been asked to stay committed to their friends and family right where they live. We have a strong conviction that recruiting is flat out wrong. Many religious groups do it, perhaps most--and that includes “mainstream denominations” along with the cult group selling flowers at the airport. But we won’t. We’re convinced that it hurts the person being recruited, it hurts the people he or she would be leaving behind to join the new group, and it hurts the group doing the recruiting. Far too often, recruiting is self-serving and ambitious. Our conviction is that it should be more difficult to join the church than it is to leave it.
We aren't the "perfect church," and we aren't trying to get you or anyone else to leave whatever you're doing now and join us. And please don't even waste your postage trying to send us money! That's where we're coming from. |
sigh
New member
Username: sigh
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 164.107.187.31
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
|
More on Anonymous Internet Discussion Groups
Yesterday a person from another state who has never been a part of any of the churches mentioned on this thread, wrote an e-mail with these observations, which I’m passing on with his permission. I’ve removed personal references, but otherwise left it as is:
“I'm working in the IT Security Department of one of the largest companies in the world (according to Forbes magazine this week, so I've been told). We have some employees in our region of the country that have taken upon themselves to start a thread on the Yahoo! message boards where they are "airing" their grievances with the company -- how much our president is making, what he should be making, what is going on in the company that is so "bad" and "wrong" and how they "see it all" so "clearly," what THEY would do... (Anonymously, of course, or so they think...) Needless to say, the company has taken notice, and THEY will be SHOCKED one day soon when our investigation is completed and they LOSE THEIR JOBS over the way they've tried to "work out" these issues and "warn" everyone about our company in this way. They are just as ravenous in that forum as [others are] in the "factnet" thing. Not only these employees breaking the law by posting inside information in public (from which others can make stock speculations), but they are slandering the company and the president in public and they will be made to pay for it as will their families. And they will NOT have the benefit and grace of an explanation such as these others have been given [by the responses on factnet]. One day, their $100,000/year jobs will be GONE, and some may face even more penalty than that for posting inside and/or false, misleading information about the company in an unauthorized way. But of course "forums" make this so easy to do since there is zero accountability and you can look as "big" and "authoritative" as you want. (Even pagan companies realize this and have policies against such.)
“It's too bad these others [the factnet posters] cannot be brought to bear and properly SHOCKED into reality on issues which are far more eternal than our company. It's amazing how in another sphere they would totally be discredited immediately, and yet here it continues unabated and unchallenged by anyone else when the authority in Matthew 18 is clear.”
By the way, I randomly clicked on a few of the other threads just to see what they were like. I really wish that I hadn’t. Despite the posted factnet policies, many of the threads are flame-filled and rife with four-letter words and the worst sort of vulgarity imaginable. There are allegations against just about any denomination you can name, from Baptists to Lutherans--many of them not based on what some group did, but somply on the fact that it exists. There are whole threads alleging that Jesus was a liar and cult leader, and that the New Testament is a cult document. Even seeing the stuff made me feel dirty. I do realize now that factnet was started by some ex-members of the Scientology organization, which certainly has an international reputation as one of the most deceptive and abusive religious groups around. I’m sure they were hurt. I’m sure that you were hurt by your religious group, too, Cybermom; I’m taking that into account in evaluating your postings. But two wrongs don’t make a right. Even “200,000 +” wrongs don’t make a right. “Spiritual abuse” is very real, and it comes in all sorts of forms. Some of y’all have suffered from it; why do you want to dish it out now? Please think about it.
Goodbye... |
cybermom
Intermediate Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 463
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 3:26 pm: |
|
maleman
Good points. I suppose time will tell and hopefully the outcome will be a positive one. This has not been my experience, but I'm also a natural skeptic! I admire you for your willingness to keep communication going. I'll be praying!
Cybermom |
maleman
New member
Username: maleman
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.8.245.54
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 6:12 pm: |
|
}Well, I never thought all of this would occur as a result of my original question and information seeking. I didn’t really desire name-calling and insults and desperate speculation. That was not my heart in starting all of this, yet I did fuel some of it.
I have apologized to the injured parties privately for my role in all of this and now do so publicly.
I have had a number of off-line conversations with many members of this church. Some of the conversations were not especially kind, while others were simply seeking to set the message straight. And yet, all of them were a reaction to some of the stranger things posted on this board, which I take responsibility for starting.
Some apologies are in order, if anyone has the courage to do so. I, for one, offer mine here publicly -- as I have already done privately
While I have my own thoughts and opinions about my biological brother's decisions regarding his dismissal of family, apparently the practice is not encouraged by the group. In fact, a number of them have healthy relationships with parents and siblings who ‘don’t belong’.
I did make some unfair assertions to strangers and that was hurtful to some innocent people. I admit here, as I have in private to the injured parties.
I hope some of the parties who lashed out at me will also seek out my forgiveness – although it doesn’t have to be in a public forum like this.
When CyberMom said that they will never post a FAQ, I did find that indeed, there is a list of audio files about their beginnings and their purpose called "answers to common questions about the uncommon journey we share." The link is found at http://www.allathisfeet.com/consumingzeal/index.html.. These audio tapes go back 15 years.I haven’t listened to them, but I will. They are also working on information on other questions that come their way and will soon make it available. I am satisfied that there is no hiding, which I had previously accused them of.
Some have said some outrageous things – but there are no togas, no VW vans, no selling bread, or any other 60 hippy weirdness. There is no cult figure and no weird recruiting tactics.
However, SIGH, I never said that a book byline was changed. So I cannot apologize for that. Never said it. I do have other concerns with the church, which I will take up privately and am confident that they can answer. One suggestion for some of the members of the church who posted on this board -- A soft answer turns away wrath, and calling a questioner a name generally is a good way to further stir the pot.
In summary, I would encourage anyone with honest questions, to seek for yourself and ask them. Endless speculation and idle chatter is condemned by Scripture and we certainly should pursue righteousness, so we should not engage in it here – or anywhere else.
I look forward to reconciliation with my family and hope to have an invite to Columbus very soon.
David |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 7:05 pm: |
|
Dear David--
Thank you for your apology (and for your personal e-mail alerting me to its existence). It took some courage to write those things, and I respect and appreciate that. I think I can speak for all of us with the church here in Columbus and say that we totally, completely forgive you for any wrongs. We will hold nothing against you. We won't bring it up again. Also, I'm not sure which communications felt to you like someone being unkind or lashing out at you personally, but as we continue our conversations off line, feel free to talk with us about that. We'll do our best to make anything right on our end, as needed. We'll look forward to talking with you sometime soon.
In Jesus,
Dan
P.S. Hopefully this thread can go dormant now! As you mentioned, there's plenty of information available on the AllAtHisFeet site. And as you found, there are people on the other end who can answer questions. Again, thanks for your efforts in clearing this up. |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 3:27 am: |
|
I am apalled beyond words at the vicious lies that have been written in regard to my husband. My husband is the man mentioned in the Indianapolis newspaper article that was written so many years ago. I should not be surprised that whoever wrote this amazing pack of lies, and then was too cowardly to identify themself, would write this fantasy when the truth about their misdeeds becomes public. I guess you think you are protecting yourself and your organization. The thing is, I do not see the love of Christ in you. Did you stop to think for one moment that he or his wife might be affected by your filthy lies? Do you not have the love of Christ for me or our children? Or would I have to be a member of your cult, Mike Peters, for you to care about me? I realize I would have to confess all my sins to you first for you to keep in your records. And then I am sure that you would add whatever fantasies your filthy mind can conjure up, just like you did with Denny. Well, rest assured there's not a group I am less interested in joining. I entrust myself to the One who judges righteously, not to some person who apparently thinks he is God. In response to your statement that my husband can probably still be found with a prostitute on any given night... He is with me every night and has been for many years. We also own a business and work and live together essentially 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I have known him longer than you have and far more intimately than you ever did. I have known Denny for 21 years. You knew him for about 5 weeks. You tell me who's the more credible witness to his character. I am having trouble understanding how you can cry "Slander!" about the words written about you here on this board, but you can so freely list such unfounded,venomous, nasty accusations against Denny. There are so many things I could say about these ridiculous, fabricated allegations that have been made about my husband, but I'm not sure if I see the point. Anyone with half a brain would know that none of us is ever without sin, but these slanderous false accusations will be dealt with severely by the Lord. All I can say is that my husband is a very godly man who loves Christ, his wife, and his boys with all his heart. It's amazing to me how I happened upon this site, but maybe it was for the purpose that some of you who have family members that are caught up in the deadly trap of a cult can take heart that the Lord can deliver your loved one from it. And let us all remember that satan is the accuser of the brethren but that there is true healing through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jen |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 4:15 am: |
|
I just wanted to clarify that the pack of lies I am refering to is not the newspaper article itself, but the later post by onetimeposter on March 29 that is supposed to be the words of an eyewitness.
Jen
See, I am unafraid to say my name! |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 3:23 pm: |
|
Hi, Jen--
I have voluntarily put in a request that the moderator delete the posting that has offended you. Hopefully that will happen rather quickly.
But I can't help thinking that it is also important for the health of your family for you to realize that he was provably exactly as he was described, at least up through the day he 'retaliated' by trying to go to the newspaper because of the deeds exposed his life. He has admitted to others that the very things you called 'lies' were true. Unfortunately, every word we said was true, and can be documented, even right down to witnesses having met one of the women involved. And there were numerous other eye witnesses to the things posted. There was reason to think even twelve years ago that he could repent of these things. Now he can trust the wife he loves enough to admit them to her, too. No question based your ferocious defense of him that you will also forgive him.
Please do remember, we didn't bring his name or story up. The person who posted without permission the 12-year old copyrighted material, which the newspaper has long since pulled from their website, did. We were asked publicly to explain the article, and we did so honestly. In order to PROTECT the man who is now your husband, none of this was told to the newspaper way back when, in spite of the slander and lies he was attempting to spread. If anyone wanted to 'hurt' him, it could have all been said then. Twelve years later, when his retaliatory slander was still being posted, it was finally time to put a stop to it.
Certainly, we feel badly that you found out this way. But please consider it Sovereign, and also please forgive him quickly when he admits what he must now confess to you. Yes, everyone has sins they would rather forget about once they are repented of. Forgive him, if he has truly repented, since you and I and everyone else are 'no better' if we have repented of our sins. As was mentioned in the post, our hope was that "he has finally given his life to the Jesus of the Bible." That's still our hope.
Sincerely,
Dan |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 5:12 pm: |
|
P.S. For what it's worth, "Mike whoever" doesn't have anything to do with this. I am quite certain that neither Mike nor anyone that lives within 100 miles of him has posted to this thread or any other on the strange, sad, fatally flawed entities known as anonymous discussion groups. I really, really want to be done with them forever myself. Hopefully I now am! 
No one can study human history without noting that most wars are born in fear and inuendo and anonymous attacks, propaganda, slander, and deceit--such as what birthed this facnet stuff. When will humans learn? Politics and spin and fabrication abound against things they don't understand ("bread sales and weird clothing," PLEASE!) or those things which threaten their traditions and forms and prejudices. Can we grow up and cut this stuff out? This thread can end, now, or continue until Jesus comes back and Cleans it up with His winnowing fork against all of this utterly destructive conjecture and gossip. What do you say let's end it. |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 6:54 pm: |
|
Dan,
I think it's a bit naive for you to assume that I had no knowledge of my husband's past and that what you posted came as a surprise to me. My husband did confess a great many things to me even before we were married, as I also did to him. I am well aware of the things you are referring to, and I know exactly the woman you mean. I am not moved by you telling me that I should forgive him. In my mind, his past was just that, his past. Nothing for me to forgive. God gave him forgiveness. The thing is, whoever this eyewitness is has so completely blown things out of proportion. How you can refer to a handful of sins as an addiction, a vice, a filthy habit is beyond me. Again, you only knew him for about 5 weeks. You are hardly qualified to make such statements. You have spoken of this board as "spiritual porn". Frankly, what was written in that post was pretty filthy to read. You said it was written in response to your being attacked by that person bringing up that article. If you felt that Denny had to be discredited, I am sure that if you were a servant of Christ with a heart of love, you could have done this far more delicately. Unfortunately, you have merely proven how vicious and mean you people are and how dangerous it would be to confess any sins to people like you. Even if every word you said were true, which it was not, what gives you the right to have posted such filth in a public place without regard to who might read it? To you, Denny is just some example to be made... To many others, God included, he is a soul to be loved. You say everyone has sins they would rather forget once they are repented of. Why then do you feel you must tell the world about all that you percieve as Denny's sins? You did not deal with this matter honestly. The eyewitness has embellished quite well. I'm thinking he could have quite a career as a writer of Harlequin novels, or some other erotica. He has quite an imagination and a flair for turning a filthy phrase.
Denny did not go to the newspaper; they approached him. See? Another "fact" you have wrong. And by the way, if you think you can even handle this discreetly, I would like to ask you to get the "proof" to me. Denny and I would love to see it. I would request that you not post it publicly. You have already done enough damage with your slander. Also, what kind of weird group are you anyway to hold on to "documentation" about someone's "sins" fourteen years?
Does anyone else reading this board have any comment regarding this? I am curious as to whether any of you see just how vicious these people are. Would any of you want to confess your sins to an organization that would, after 14 years, post a perversion of them publically?
Jen |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 7:06 pm: |
|
Dan,
You said Mike nor anyone within 100 miles of him has posted here? How can you possibly know that? And you in your posting wrote, from an eyewitness. Who is this mystery witness? And if you don't know these people, how did you get that info which was in quotes? I find it fascinating that now that you have done something that has hurt someone, now you want all this to stop? It's like you're saying, you're hurt; I don't want to hear about it or deal with my part in it.
I didn't post the newspaper article, but now my husband's good name has been slandered publically and we have to deal with the pain involved. Praise be to God that He gives us grace to overcome any pain you have caused. I pray that others will see the pain you have caused and be warned.
Jen |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
|
P.P.S. A friend asked me to clarify one point... I obviously did quote with permission one e-mail from a first hand witness commenting on the newspaper article. That's the e-mail I have asked the moderator to delete, however. It is still true that neither Mike nor anyone in the church there has posted to this group, or even has a membership in factnet at all. |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 7:28 pm: |
|
Hopefully, Jen, the paragraph you are referring to will be deleted from the board soon. We'll just have to wait for the moderator to do it. |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:35 pm: |
|
I am the man that the Indianapolis newspaper and this cowardly, mystery eyewitness spoke of, Dennis Elslager. (The actual witness)
I have been saved by God’s grace back in September 1983. I was 18 at the time that I got saved and just came out of great family turmoil and over a year of chronic, suicidal depression. God changed me and I was a new man in Christ. Though my spirit was born again, I did have times of weakness as my old mind was being renewed. Not like this group has perverted, added to, and taken away from (as he clearly does with God’s Word as well), in regards to one confessing sins to seek help from people who claim they love you but by their works prove to hate. I do not believe when it is said that Mike has nothing to do with this. I had hopes over the years that this deceptive cult group was dissolved by now and that others were free. I do know some were freed. I repent of not being in prayer over this. We consider how far some of the larger cults developed over time that maybe they could have been halted or removed if people stood against the eerie deception involved. Now my wife and crown (Proverbs 12:4), Jen, I believe by God’s design, happened to find this website only because I thought of searching what was happening with this cult and the man Mike Peters. I’m thinking this may be so that our testimony may be set publically so that family and friends of loved ones caught in this trap may be encouraged and maybe by the grace of God some still in there may be set free by truth. Mike Peters is a roaring lion seeking to devour weakened and lamed lambs. He gets them when they are down and need love and help the most. He does not appear like a roaring lion but as an angel of light. He is (or definitely was) in control the of the people there along with his cohorts (sub-commanders).
Right after I was freed from the group, I met a number of caring Christians who help me recover from this mind manipulation and live a life in pursuit of God. As you will see in my testimony, my freedom from sin came after my freedom from this cult.
To help clear how that Mr. Michael Peters practices lies and deception, even if it is removed after the fact, I will say more...
God knows, and having my wife as a witness, I have never touched another person sexually since we were married in January, 1997. It did not take this group to overcome my sin. It took getting out of the group so Satan could not hinder me from knowing Christ power to be freed by the wonderful truths of God’s promises that I ignored prior to falling in the trap. This is why I was deceived by them. I’m sure Dan has wished for me to shut up because he knows how I see right into this. Watch his subtle words in context to all he says and you may be aware of what we mean if you are thinking through God’s Word in prayer. That is all it took for me. Watch and pray!
(Please continue on the next posting) |
onetimeposter
New member
Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:36 pm: |
|
And one last thing, Jen...
If you now admit that what was said, that you call porn, was actually true and I am naive for thinking in you didn't know about it, WHY did you attempt to tell the world that it was not true, initially?
And, you say that 'Dennis good name is tarnished' when he is admittedly guilty of those sins, yet you show no concern at all that he tarnished hundreds and hundreds of others' good names?
As for 'how' he got involved with the newspaper, he went to someone else to tell his tale, who in turn came up with the plan to slander other people's good names in the newspaper. He wasn't approached 'out of the blue' as if he wasn't involved in the process. (There are over a million people in that city; they didn't choose him at random.)
And, again, all that was posted here -- at the insistence of others who wanted an explanation -- was not only true, as now is being admitted, but COULD have been printed in the newspaper at the time. Instead, everything possible was done to protect him, even though he made no effort to protect others, and even though both the sins and the way he misrepresented others to the newspaper was quite heinous. His failures were kept out of the newspaper, and others took the hit for him. All of this could have been avoided.
Now I have voluntarily asked to have that post taken off, out of consideration for you and your family, even though I believe that every word in it was the unembellished truth. Can someone explain to me why removing truth to protect someone is a good thing, but removing lies and sheer fabrications--both in the newspaper article and on this discussion group--is never so much as suggested? If one person is worth protecting, no matter how bad he admittedly blew it, why are hundreds of people--most of them who have never heard of Denny's name--not worth protecting? Can you look past your own embarrassment long enough to see the mangitude of wrong that is being done to others, and care about that at least as much? |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:36 pm: |
|
Back in late 1991 and early 1992, I came out of and had already repented of a short season of being backslidden by yielding to carnality before I ever entered this cult. As I have said, this was not as extensive as Mike Peters or his followers described by any means. In fact, of the very partial truth they or he speak, this one girl who was involved was also convicted by God and repented and got involved with a fellowship in Tampa not connected with the Peter’s cult. Thank God! By virtue of God’s washing through Christ and His word, I do not believe it is appropriate for me to go over my sins again here. Before entering the cult, my sense of shame was overwhelming while not trusting God’s forgiveness and power yet, though I now know that I could have . And I was open to finding help in a place other than the throne of grace where Christ is the only High Priest. I believe this was my idolatry to come to this cult trying to find help in the time of need. This was the greatest sin that I had committed in that time of my life. I had no idea that in confessing some things to Mike Peters, it would be twisted, severely added to and used against me as an attack against me for my questioning the legitimacy of him and his followers. And that this would produce such great pain beyond description in my already contrite and hurting soul at the time. This is the Satanic weapon: he stores ammunition against every individual follower there. And he entreats you for that ammo. And pulls it out if you threaten them by questioning.
Even today the memory hurt a bit when we happened onto this website. Mainly because they showed their fruit of vile hatred for someone they knew so very little of and proved they are still up to their nasty old tricks. But by God’s mighty grace and the promise of His armor in Ephesians 6, He proved true and faithful. I know others who have been freed from this snare and I hope to find the means of communicating with them that they may “overcome him by the word of their testimony” by posting it here. This is just another testimony to the grace and power of God’s sovereign ability to take what was meant for evil and turn it to the good. Praise be to God!
( Please continue on the next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:38 pm: |
|
Going back to the statement from “the accuser of the brethren”. I do not recall speaking in that group about me saying that I was a “prophet”. But, I must admit that in the condition that I was in at that time and along the lines of his twisted teaching and his ways of twisting what one says, I may have said something weird at that time because this was the accepted norm for many in there. And regarding his word usage “insane and mentally ill”. Well, I think you may see his ways in this and other things as the time transpires here. Mike Peters was aware from my “confession” that I was in the hospital for chronic, suicidal depression just before being saved, as I mentioned earlier. I have no idea what he is saying in that I was practicing some alter call. I played the guitar and sang fervently and I think that bugged him for some reason. As far as hitting on the girls. I remember having normal self-controlled desires to get to know through pure conversation one or two single females in the group. Does that have to be explained? Frankly, I was very shy and hardly new how to go about this in the first place. Also, I did not seek revenge by agreeing to the newspaper’s request of me for an interview, but in great concern for those in this bondage or that could be, I was willing to report this evil publically. One thing should be noted here. Oh yes, they show a hypocritical love and give you a real sense of feeling like you belong to a family, especially when you first go there. This is how people were deceived into this in the first place. But just start questioning him and his false and deceptive and frankly very cunning beliefs and you will be eaten alive and torn to sheds by his domination over people and their lives. I paid the price for committing this idolatry of following “another Jesus”, and am still feeling the effects although he has spoken words that only he will be accountable for in the end. It was certainly worth the price to be freed from his evil grasp.
Can you see how evil this group really can be from this ongoing fruit? He will hurt others as hard as he can without regard for their pain except that he knows that the pain will potentially keep his control over their lives. God has this man on a leash no less than He does Satan himself.
I pray that others may have courage from this and that they would, in the testing of their faith be set free by knowing the Truth. Jesus is the only Way and Truth and Life. Not this other Jesus” made up in Mike Peters likeness to deceive so many unknowing souls. He is cunning! Just pray for discernment and watch what happens. Man’s wisdom will not withstand God’s wisdom and power. One key truth in discerning him is that how much of what he falsely accuses others of is often a good description of himself.
God Bless! Also, know that I am willing to stand guard here at this website now to answer questions from those who hurt for their loved ones and friends, for those in this bondage, and for those that have escaped this trap and need encouraged. I love you! I know some of what you may be going through. And, I will pray for you.
“Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”
(Please continue on my next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:40 pm: |
|
These promises in God’s Word are given here as a reminder from Dennis Elslager...
The promise of God’s divine power for victory:
2 Peter 1:1-4
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Notice a distinctions and the two fold promise here...
1Cor 6:9-10
Promise #1:"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God”.
This is only speaking to those who are presently in the practice (key word) of these sins. The only time we are permitted by Scripture to speak specifically to others of their sin in the hopes that they will repent and know Christ’s forgiveness.
(See my next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:41 pm: |
|
1John 3:10
“In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.”
Promise # 2:
1Cor 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
We can all see that Mike Peters is practicing slander and reviling or in control of it. And as it has not been repented of, and if it is not repented of he will continue this practice and have his reward with "the accuser of the brethren” whom we know as Satan. As for those who’s sin are repented of and forgiven and washed by His precious blood we are set free from sin as is declared in Romans chapters 6-8. I think that the Devil and his angels may read this and weep for they know their day is coming! But as for those who know Christ’s Salvation in Truth:
1Cor 2:14-17
But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads in every place the fragrance that comes from knowing him. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; to the one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? For we are not peddlers of God’s word like so many; but in Christ we speak as persons of sincerity, as persons sent from God and standing in his presence.
By the way of testimony and witness, Mike Peters has received money from the followers including myself at that foolish and naive time of my life. And through his twisted teaching makes it known that everything they are and own are his as well.
(See my next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:43 pm: |
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Many who have come to the light have testified to Mike Peters works...
2Cor 11:13-15
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."
This brings us to the final promise quoted at this time for the love of God’s sheep and little lambs. I commit this to Christ Power and for His use and Glory as He will perform His work over evil. We see from the following passage how that we know God is in control and that the end of the accuser is soon.
Revelation 12:7-12
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. “Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Amen. So come Lord Jesus! We love You because you first loved us.
Dennis Elslager |
onetimeposter
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Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:49 pm: |
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And one last thing, Jen...
If you now admit that what was said, that you call porn, was actually true and I am naive for thinking in you didn't know about it, WHY did you attempt to tell the world that it was not true, initially?
And, you say that 'Dennis good name is tarnished' when he is admittedly guilty of those sins, yet you show no concern at all that he tarnished hundreds and hundreds of others' good names?
As for 'how' he got involved with the newspaper, he went to someone else to tell his tale, who in turn came up with the plan to slander other people's good names in the newspaper. He wasn't approached 'out of the blue' as if he wasn't involved in the process. (There are over a million people in that city; they didn't choose him at random.)
And, again, all that was posted here -- at the insistence of others who wanted an explanation -- was not only true, as now is being admitted, but COULD have been printed in the newspaper at the time. Instead, everything possible was done to protect him, even though he made no effort to protect others, and even though both the sins and the way he misrepresented others to the newspaper was quite heinous. His failures were kept out of the newspaper, and others took the hit for him. All of this could have been avoided.
Now I have voluntarily asked to have that post taken off, out of consideration for you and your family, even though I believe that every word in it was the unembellished truth. Can someone explain to me why removing truth to protect someone is a good thing, but removing lies and sheer fabrications--both in the newspaper article and on this discussion group--is never so much as suggested? If one person is worth protecting, no matter how bad he admittedly blew it, why are hundreds of people--most of them who have never heard of Denny's name--not worth protecting? Can you look past your own embarrassment long enough to see the mangitude of wrong that is being done to others, and care about that at least as much? |
speakingtruth
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Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 9:14 pm: |
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Are you a complete moron, or merely a little dense? I clearly stated that it was your embellishments and exaggerations that were lies.
Addicted to redlight districts - a lie. Addiction implies an ongoing behaviour. A handful of sins hardly an addiction makes.
Ongoing filthy habit and vice - another lie.
Control others with his opinions and religiosity - yet another lie. He questions your practices as he clearly examines scripture and you call this control and religiousity? I realize that cults cannot handle any insubordination because it threatens your control, which is exactly what you are accusing Denny of.
Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Announcing that he is a prophet - send me the tape Dan.
"There is every reason to believe, twelve long years later, that he can still readily be found with a prostitute any given night." - pretty serious allegation, Dan! Are you a prophet? If so, then you are obviously a false prophet, because what you said didn't come true.
John 8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
I never said in any post that Denny or I are without sin. But guess what, neither are you or Mike Peters or anyone. The difference here is that I don't know any of your secret sin. But you know what? If I did, I could never think to post it.
Denny is no longer guilty of those sins as you say. He has been forgiven by God. Who are you to say he is still guilty? The Pope?
Slander is false accusation. You have falsely accused Denny. You have taken some sin, told to someone in confidence, and exaggerated it to the extreme. You continue to insist that every word was true, and don't even acknowledge the fact that you had no business making that post in the first place. Do you even know this mystery witness? How can you be sure their words are true? All the accusers of the adulterous woman left. Christ said "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more" If Christ no longer condemns Denny, what right do you have to do so?
Your outright stupidity in misquoting my posts only serves to make you look like a guy really shaking in his boots because you are looking pretty bad here.
Jen |
onetimeposter
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Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 9:20 pm: |
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Dennis, what if in your scant five weeks of knowing anyone in the church there, and in your admitted sinful state at the time, your judgment was unreliable? What if you're wrong? Surely you can't feel good about your state or your discernment during those five weeks, and in the time leading up to it.
And, by the way, I have known Mike and many in the church there for nearly twenty years, and NEVER has anyone called himself or herself a prophet or suggested either that they were or that anyone else in the church there was. Let me repeat that: over two decades, in hundreds of different settings (the whole church, a small group over a dinner table, or one-on-one) I have never once heard a single person there EVER call themselves a prophet, or make any such claims for themselves. This in not over a five week peiod, when I had been and still was deep in sin. This is over two decades of continual contact. And so, perhaps that is why it stood out to them that you called yourself a Prophet and demanded respect with people who knew where your life was. If anyone were to say to you, "Dennis, slow down. You are not in a good place to be judging others or insisting on the way you think 'church' is supposed to be"--why would you object? Why would you think that 'not listening to you' in your admitted state was being 'defensive' rather than wise? 'WHO can ascend God's Holy Hill--those with clean hands and a pure heart,' which you admit you did not have when you moved to indianapolis or during the five weeks you knew anyone in the church there, and that you did not have until sometime after? It doesn't make sense, Dennis. Anymore than the newspaper article did, where you claimed you weren't allowed to play guitar, or something like that, when I know for a fact that well over a hundred people play the guitar or other musical instruments in their worship of God, just in that church alone.
It doesn't add up. Maybe you should just--we all should just--drop it? |
onetimeposter
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Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 9:45 pm: |
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Jen, let's review: (1) Dennis slandered others, with fabricated stories, at a time in his life when he had lived in deep sins. (2) He did not resolve these sin issues, according to his own testimony, until sometime after the five weeks he knew anyone in the church there. (3) There were at least 2-3 dozen people in the Timberfalls Clubhouse who heard Dennis claim to be a Prophet. (4) At first it sounded like you were denying any of that every happened, since you called the post an "amazing pack of lies." Then you said that Dennis had already confessed some/many/most of those things to you, and that it was naïve of me to assume otherwise. Then you said that the post was embellished. Do you think that it's possible that really I'm not a "moron," "dense," or "stupid," but that I'm a genuinely saved Believer who loves truth? Is it at all possible either there is either more that you don't know, that others in Tampa and Indianapolis knew, or that Dennis himself spoke of "slavery" and "repeated sins" when describing what you say were "a few occasions"?
Simply put, Dennis started all of this years ago, while in admitted deep sin, and those who knew about why he was slandering did everything they could to protect him, in spite of what he was doing maliciously to others. It is wonderful, and I mean that, that he has now repented. Yes, the Blood covers. But sin does take its toll, even when forgiven; King David lost his baby anyway. Dennis' slander and now further fabrications about things isn't helping anything. Had he never done that in the first place, then this could never have come up. Some, as you read through the thread, delighted in trying to slander and gossip, while some of us PLEADED with them to stop. They brought Dennis up without asking his permission. Perhaps Dennis should take that up with them. |
onetimeposter
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Username: onetimeposter
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.192.78.89
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 9:53 pm: |
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Could everyone who eventually reads this thread give the following thought some respectful consideration, at least? David Wilkerson just released his findings that 20% of the 'pastors' in America (and his sample was the committed ones who attend his conferences) admit they are "addicted to pornography." George Barna and the Promise Keepers each have stated that about 50% of "church attending" men engage in pornography on an average of every 14 days. Last week a major denomination announced their own internal poll revealed that 75% of their men "have a problem with pornography." And that is only one form of the destructive sins that plague, admittedly, the "attendance based" and "clergy/laity" cultural forms of christianity, in temples, store fronts, and living rooms all over America and elsewhere. So, instead of insulting and hating everything that doesn't "look like" the norm--when right now, the norm is bearing some pretty horrendous fruit, by its own admissions--perhaps opening arms and loving, rather than persecuting with hate, such as permeates the factnet cyberspace, would be more helpful towards the Change that is desperately needed in our world? Just a thought. |
speakingtruth
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Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 12
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:18 pm: |
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Dan,
If I did not know the unrelenting evil that your doctrine is propagating (most pointedly the right given to the leaders to post people's severely exaggerated, twisted and even forgiven through repentance past sins in their face) then I would have no reason to be sure that I make myself available to God to help free the souls you and your other masters have worked so hard for so long to enslave them in sin. Your lies are continuing. You deny Truth. And though you say you have proof, none have brought anything but mere speculations and empty words. I can't remember a handful of names there and I did not mention them let alone the hundreds you speak of. And what is this "Prophet" kick you keep babbling about? I don't remember it at all and I don't understand why it bothers you so much to go on about it. Send me the tape and let me hear it and if you are correct, I will gladly admit to it. What is the point here? You're trying hard now to turn from the fact that I am aware of your devices. This knowledge is going to keep me in prayer for the souls in this cult and ready to be an encouragement for the hurting.
I expect that you may react to this at some point. If you are seeking to be freed from this bondage of your soul then I will respond. Otherwise, if you continue your false speculations, I will not respond to you but dust my feet off. I offer any help I may be enabled to give to those who desire freedom in Christ.
Mt 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.
Denny |
speakingtruth
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Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:32 pm: |
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My point to everything is this:
Neither Denny or I posted the article. Do you deny that a group of guys from Indy, Peters included, read a list of "sins" in a public restaurant? What kind of Christlike behaviour is that? Can it be that Denny wanted to warn others, so that the same wouldn't happen to them? I know that if you did that to me, I would never want it to happen to anyone else. If you were so concerned at protecting him at the time, why did you post all that now? Seems to me that to list all his "sins" in the paper would make you look pretty bad and probably cause others in the Indianapolis area to be fearful of your group. Maybe your omission of all that years ago was just PR?
Just curious, and I do not deny that I know that sexual sin is rampant... Are you saying that there is none of that in your church?
Jen |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
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"And what of the spiritual abuse inflicted on the falsely accused who--unlike defendants in secular courts of law--have no right to know the identity of their accusers or examine hard evidence against them, and who are presumed guilty until proven innocent?" - the words of Dan, onetimeposter
We were rereading all the posts and had to laugh out loud at Dan's duplicity!
First, the cult in Indy heaps spiritual abuse on Denny, the falsely accused.
We have yet to hear who this cowardly, mystery eyewitness is!
We have yet to have the opportunity to examine the "hard evidence" against him!
Denny was presumed guilty then of far more than was actual. And he was presumed guilty now.
By the way, Dan, I thought you were a onetimeposter and you were through with factnet some time ago?
Jen |
mike_indpls
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Username: mike_indpls
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.58.43.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:59 am: |
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Well, I've been watching this whole thing, of course, and I kind of doubt anyone is having a good time here. I know that Dennis and myself and many others more innocent than either of us have been vilified here by quite a few people who don't know either of us, and especially whomever posted a newspaper article that should never have been written. It was filled with falsehoods, and Dennis' name was posted in that article without his permission. I guess a lot of things like that go on in "factnet" but "Free Speech" and "Freedom of Religion" are Constiutional Law, and protected by our government, so things like this will always happen. It's mostly even legal, apparently, in the politics of hatred and ambition in Washington DC for people to slander and libel and defame character, up to a point. Freedom of Speech. It's legal in this country for guys to sell books and sell seats in auditoriums and make $50 million dollars a year, profiting off of christian messages. Freedom of Religious Expression. And most folks don't even mind the self-promotion, recruiting, selling of Bible truths, the French Riviera vacations and multiple mansions, and air conditioned doghouses of christian leaders in today's society. Meanwhile, I can't speak for Dennis, but I'd guess he's like me and most americans. I don't have more than $2000 to my name combined checking and savings, no equity, and no investments. Still, in our world, it's okay to be a millionaire by selling truth to God's Lambs. It's just the way it is, while their "congregations" remain in 50% divorce rate, 75% fallen teens (according to the same types of studies Dan cited), and 20% o more of their leaders "addicted to pornography" and the like. Now to me, with compassion for His Lambs, and conviction, not judgment, demonstrates that their is something fundamentally wrong with either the message of modern american christianity, or their application of their personally profitable message. And, I'll admit it. I'm really unhappy with seeing people's lives and money stolen by those who have posterized themselves, and CEO'd and dominated their congregations, making all of the decisions for everyone, while every sunday disobeying "When revelation comes to the second, let the first one sit down" - thus robbing God's People of the chance to use THEIR gifts, which are no "less" than the guy who "runs" everything every sunday. But, it's "legal" in this country for a man to be ultra wealthy and dominate christians, and promote himself in the name of Jesus. It's also "legal" for me to oppose, for the sake of God's Lambs around the world, all of that religious control, power, and greed that fills the religous landscape. Most don't mind the business of the buyers and sellers and control of the purse strings and decisions and pulpit in modern christianity, or even notice it -- and it's legal in this country. Freedom of Religion, is as I said, Constitutionally protected -- just as freedom to not like it, and speak against it is legally protected. I kind of doubt that the www.AllAtHisFeet.com website is nearly daring enough or important enough to change anything in this world, but hey, it's legal to post the last 20+ years of our interactions of trying to love and obey Jesus, so we did. Freedom of Speech is the Law. As is Freedom of Religion and protection from hate crimes for not "being like everyone else." Twenty plus years later, I guess I don't have any regrets that I didn't want to be a part of cultural religion and it's bad fruit. Fortunately, there are laws by our founding fathers, who came to this country in many cases because of religious persecution, to protect those who don't do what everyone else is doing. |
mike_indpls
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Username: mike_indpls
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.58.43.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:00 am: |
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You can even legally believe, if you choose, "when you die, your soul goes to Neptune." I don't agree, because of some things the One who walked on water and raises the dead has to say about it, but you'd have the right to have a factnet thread i you believe that. And others would, no doubt, have the right to start a thread to make fun of you -- and probably would. |
mike_indpls
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Username: mike_indpls
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.58.43.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:02 am: |
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Back to you, Dennis. You know, all of those things describing your life did happen. But, so what? I know people can change. I was one of those, as you remember, who believed you could "make it" from the very start. I trusted you, in spite of it all. One of the "altar call" things you did happened at my own home, to my basement wall, with my wife accidentally coming down the stairs and witnessing this. She was totally shocked by it and other things, but okay. We knew you were young and there's always room to grow. But the point that we let you in my home, around my children, demonstrates we cared about you and tried to help you. I really believed you could make it, and did not hold the then very recent terrible things against you -- BECAUSE I know that Father can change people. That's what life is about. The "restaurant" thing that keeps being referred to, you need to get over it. It was you who initiated a discussion with three brothers over breakfast, to tell them adamantly what "improvements" you thought ought to be done in the church, about a worship band or whatever else was on your list. And, that was met with, "Dennis, think about this. Are you really in a position, only literally days after your last terrible sin, to be trying to correct and fix everyone and everything? Think about it. Take your time here. It's not possible to see much until you can walk a bit with 'a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.' To know His 'good, perfect, and pleasing Will' we need to walk a bit 'no longer conforming to the patterns of this world' and 'offer our bodies as a living sacrifice.'" Now, I know that you were young and ambitious and outspoken. And, I suppose many go through all of that as they get their legs under them in their youth. That's okay. And, no doubt you wanted to be "heard" with your "ideas" and I understand that, too. But, there was no "scene" at the restaurant, and no "list" read. It was only you insisting that your ideas be embraced, and three brothers saying, "Dennis, relax. You need to get your life going the Right direction for awhile here, before you start thinking about your rock band and your good ideas. These things in your life need time to Turn and Heal for a bit." It wasn't a fun conversation, that I remember. But, not a single soul "overheard" anything. I know memories can get "fuzzy" when one is emotional, and so I don't think you felt like you were intentionally lying about that. I'm sure it seemed real to you. You'll see as your children grow up that these things happen. "You don't underSTAND!" and other such temptations of youth will probably crop up in your own home. |
mike_indpls
New member
Username: mike_indpls
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.58.43.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:04 am: |
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You were unquestionably embarrassed (for which I'm very sorry) that your ideas weren't accepted as embraceable, and that there were stated reasons that you were not really in a place Spiritually to be "governing" the church here. I don't doubt that you were embarrassed by that time, and I'm sorry for that. Everyone at the table already was aware of all the details, so it wasn't like there was any surprise to anyone there, or you were further "revealed" to anyone there. But, simply, you were wanting to "offer advice" and it wasn't accepted as appropriate for you to be doing so, just 25-35 days after your latest "fall". Develop a relationship with God instead of messing around with ideas and altar calls at rock concerts. It's a Better place to be. Again, I feel bad that this apparently hurt your feelings so much, but again, we had already proven by exposing our homes and children to you, that we believed you could make it with Jesus. And, it certainly was perfectly FINE for you to go to Zionsville Christian Fellowship and do what you did, or Horizons, or wherever you wanted to try to find a walk with God. We have a 20 year record of not wanting folks to move here or be movement oriented rather than JESUS oriented. It's all over the website in audio and written records of the last 20+ years. We have, to literally several thousands of folks over the last few years, virtually INSISTED that they continue to live where they live, or anywhere else they feel like God is calling them to be, and extend the love of Jesus to their families and friends and coworkers, rather than move here as they requested. We don't think we're "anybody" and have no reason to think anyone needs to live here. Jesus Life is "neither here, nor there" and He said that for a reason. Just love and serve God, and His Body, and honor and obey His Word, wherever you are. So, I'm glad your wife says you are doing well in Christ, with a good home and children, and in hopes a wonderful daily experience of Jesus in real and vulnerable relationships His Church. Nothing could make me happier than to hear good things about you. That's all anyone ever wanted for you during those dark days of yours in Tampa and the few days here -- and if your prospering in Christ now happens at our expense, that's all fine. Whatever it takes for you to have a solid, holy life in Jesus. May He prosper that "all the more." Dennis, I don't, and never did, think of you as being more of a "terrible person" than I am, or anyone else is. That's why I was willing for you to freely be in my home and around my young children. Falling and Rising again -- that's life on this planet, for "whosoever will." Finding and responding to Jesus and His Word, by His Grace and Love, is the best any mortal can "bring to the table." I'm VERY glad you are now. And I hope you are with some excellent people who can continue to draw you Higher yet, as you encourage them, as well. |
mike_indpls
New member
Username: mike_indpls
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.58.43.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:06 am: |
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As for me? Well, I'm an oddball, no doubt. I can't make any defense of myself. I go through every emotion in the book, every day. While I don't appreciate lies and accusations and defamation of character by those who don't really know anything about me (I have children, too), at the same time it's okay. Jesus' Blood is all that can save me, or anyone of course, from condemnation. No one wants "what they deserve" if they know their Bibles, and their own hearts, at all. I certainly don't. And I don't want anything but the best for you, either, Dennis. I'm happy that you've found a hope and a future. And, no matter what is said about me, or done to me, Father's been good to me, and very, very kind. I may not have wealth or any of that, but I certainly am "comfortable" compared to our brothers and sisters in most every country or generation. There's nothing to complain about. And, no doubt this who website thingy above is all my fault. I have much to learn, and much to change, and hope to embrace His grace to continue to do so. I not only "don't do or say everything perfect" -- I don't do or say ANYTHING anywhere close to well or perfect. Because I know that, my reputation with many, many witnesses is that I never ever "tell anyone what to do" -- no matter how much they may beg me to do so. I either answer them with a smile only (which drives them nuts ), or I may tell them what I might do, and why, and help them consider what "obstacles" may be in the way to them hearing God on the matter they are asking about. But, there are ten thousand documented cases and witnesses of how i totally refuse to tell people what to do. What is that about -- why won't I, when the entire religious world lives that way everyday, as if it were a business? That refusal to tell people what to do, no staff, no salary, no title, no office, no anything -- is basically a statement, again and again, that whomever is asking needs to learn to hear God, and that I'm unwilling to be the center of anything. No book sales, not pulpit, no leading meetings, no picture on the website, no self-claims, no self-promotion, no recruiting, sending people's checks back to them uncashed -- whatever it takes to avoid being on anyone's pedestal. I'm just an engineer and follower of Jesus, unwilling to be "slothful" and "bury my talent" and also unwilling to "run meetings" or "make everyone's decisions" or "dominate" or "self-promote" or "extract wealth from God's People" by peddling truth that ought to be free to receive, and free to consider without threat of hate crimes if someone does step outside of the confines of cultural religion.
It's possible that there will be yet more folks want to "join in the fun" and toast me, or you Dennis, or others, on this bad news posting board. But, I'd prefer that everyone just put it all on me and my immaturity and lack of sufficient knowledge of, or relationship with God to this point in my life. I hope to change. I hope to be more like Jesus and know more of His Word, and apply it more passionately in my daily life and ways. I have certainly got a long, long way to go. But, I know people can change, and I would appreciate anyone's prayers who is reading this and knows Father and lives for Him. I really believe this can all get straightened out, if Jesus' Interests are put first. That's my desire, as far as I can know my own heart. And Dennis, may God fill you with every Good thing, by the Blood and Oath and Spirit of His Son. I honestly want that for you, and am pleased you are well on your way now. Love, mike |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:32 am: |
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This is Dennis Elslager...
For the sake of those who are (or could become) in serious bondage by the man, Mike Peters, and for the loved ones who know someone in bondage, I do pray that God will use this website to expose, Mike Peters publicly with all that he practicing.
To all people who come to this knowledge. Let your Christian friends know as well…
some of you have only begun seeing the fruit of pain and bondage of other lives that have been deceived by this man before. In the reading of Mike Peters words and his followers, I believe you have just witnessed, or will through careful thought and prayer and by Gods grace see a very good example of what the apostle Paul was warning us about:
2Cor. 11:13-15
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."
Mike Peters is one of the most amazing that I have ever witnessed this of in my lifetime yet. As you read his words here or otherwise, don’t be swayed by looking at some of his smooth words…
Rom. 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them that are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which ye learned: and turn away from them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Christ, but their own belly; and by their smooth and fair speech they beguile the hearts of the innocent.
Rather you must look into all of their contradicting words and comments and know the works of evil inflicted on the souls of the innocent. We have flushed this evil man out and he is unexpectedly, publicly exposed. The thing he fears most! It is going to be difficult for him to deal with this. And those of us who have the discernment in Christ and the love for those who are subjected to this severe abuse need to rise up now and do enough to expose the evil of this man's control over people's lives while we still can.
(next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:34 am: |
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I could jump right away to my defense knowing he has twisted and perverted so much about me again. I think he would possibly like that to happen but it won’t be beneficial in the matter. Though I may speak some on that later, it is no longer our words against his but rather his words against his other words and his practiced and continued deeds and the works of his cohorts. He and his cohorts have contradicted themselves and very, very much contradicted and twisted God’s words to keep his control. Also, keep in mind that we will need to begin searching for other friends and family members of those in his control to testify to his works. And understand that by way of his practice of a list of sins that he has against everyone who has been or is deceived by him, he will use this against them as a threat to work to have them do whatever he thinks will gain and keep his control.
Please consider this Scripture:
2Cor. 2:10-11
“ If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven--if there was anything to forgive--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.”
This scheme will include having his disciples that he has trained to be like him and do as he does. Lie, deceive, twist, pervert and make use of partial truth to back him and cover the destructive lies. You recall his father did this in the garden of Eden from the start and throughout history and he is still doing his same works of deceit on the earth today. Always remember “Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world” (1John 4:4) and “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20) This is a spiritual battle! Get your armor on!
Ep 6:10-18
"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints"
(next posting) |
speakingtruth
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Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:35 am: |
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Always remember that God’s heart is grieved when his children are in bondage and He will hear their cries as we know throughout history from the beginning. When God’s people fell for idolatry they fell into bondage. Most of them in this cult do not know what they are doing. Some most certainly do and they will pay the price for it if they do not repent before they meet our Lord in the end.
As they come out of this bondage, these wounded and scarred people will desperately need caring Christian friends and family to love them because they are so familiar with having their sins magnified and held over their heads for judgment.
Please remain in prayer and please don’t be like those who were aware of what was happening in so many cult groups of the past. David Koresh, Jim Jones and so many others who ended up with destroyed lives. And if we really think about it,those of us who are aware of this nastiness and abuse and do nothing are somewhat responsible for the continuation or end result.
Prov. 24:11-12 “Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering towards slaughter. If you say, "But we knew nothing about this," does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?”
If all we can do is pray then could you intercede for the souls involved? This is not a guilt trip but a call to arms. God only knows how severe this cult is but I can say for certain, at the very least after 20 years of practice, this man and his controlling teachings with his commissioned controllers, spread now to many places, will continue to keep peoples lives in bondage by threat of their past sins massively inflated and thrown in their face before all. This is a regular practice. They have only felt the need to do it here because they (or actually he) were threatened and had no thought that I would (from somewhere out there in the millions of people) happen to find it. He did not do it in the newspaper back in October 1994 because he knew he had done it publicly over two years prior in a Denny’s restaurant and knew it was slanderous and could have potentially got him in trouble with the law or had many people that he feared whom I knew come down on his head at that time. Over 2.5 years later after my exodus and knowing the grace of God to keep me, the newspaper came to me because the ex-cult ministry that knew of my testimony made my name known to them knowing that I had a testimony regarding cult activity.
(next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:36 am: |
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This is much worse than taking their money, this is stealing their very lives and everything they have to build his little kingdom for himself. If you don’t believe this yet then just take a sincere look into the matter for yourself. If this group of people are so innocent and harmless then why wouldn’t you feel free to visit them? If you live in Indianapolis feel free to go to their place of gatherings at Timberlake apartments, 3980 W 71 St. or one of their other meeting places. But you better have your armor on completely because you are entering a battle where lives and souls are being torn to pieces on the battle field. And if you look only with your physical eyes you will be beguiled by the smooth talk , angel of light, minister of righteousness hypocrisy. You must come into the “ecclesia” the “the called out” the “in group” by confessing all known sins so they can first have a list on you before you are accepted as really “one of them”. If you come in not questioning, seemingly curious, they will “love bomb” you with the hopes that you will come to conviction (in reality condemnation) and then give them this list. If they succeed (and they will if you are weak and vulnerable) they now have the ammo needed to work towards controlling your life and molding you in the image they see best for themselves (or himself). In other words he is acting as a god. And an evil unforgiving one at that.
If you have prepared your spiritual eyes in God's Word and prayer you will start to see. It has been said that I was in no condition to have understanding at the time I was there because of my “deep sin”. The reality is that this one occurrence of sexual sin was repented of immediately (long before getting in this mess). In fact it was so immediate that that night the person that I was with sensed the same feelings of shame and regret that I was knowing. She also repented and then I found out that she was a backslidden Christian herself and that night she came with me to some other Christian friends (certainly not Peters group) in Tampa. And after that night was herself set free and became a part of a fellowship and the last that I knew was married to a man in the church. God is good!
As the Scriptures say “my people perish for lack of knowledge”. After being beguiled by this deceptive spirit in Mike and through my venerability I fell into the sin of idolatry by yielding to “another Jesus”. I told him the sin, spoken of in the past paragraph, and some sins from years past as he used words to draw them out. All of these were very much twisted and perverted and added to excessively when he pulled his weapon out later. This other Jesus is by nature the antithesis of the true Christ Jesus or the real Gospel of Salvation. As the Bible says this is one of the many antichrists and doctrines of demons we were warned about. And being warned we have no excuse to just let it slide.
(next posting) |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:37 am: |
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And after foolishly moving to Indianapolis and being involved in the Peters group for about only 2-3 weeks and spending time alone in prayer and God's Word, I began to see some real weird stuff. They would speak of themselves as “THE Church of Indianapolis” (the emphasis says it all) and then turn around and say other churches that do not accept their beliefs are “elitist”. As I have said before , many of the judgments they put on others are a good description of themselves. That is why he wrote a book about the cults. Do you see the deceit yet? Well, there is more to come if you don’t. I am unmasking him before your eyes and God can help you see him as he really is and not as he appears in his glowing form.
Even the members of this cult are encouraged to read their own Bible but like the old Catholicism trick you can not understand it without their help in explaining it as Peters has taught them indirectly or directly. But…. If you question their legitimacy, “well why then did God say this or that?” You will be immediately labeled arrogant and divisive. No sincere answering of your questions if you ask something that threatens their control.
Who you meet with of your family and friends that may not accept their teachings and if there is any uncertainty about the depth of your commitment to them, this is then controlled by having a strongly indoctrinated member come along with you. It happened to me the first time I wanted to visit my mother in PA. They sent a man that I only new little about with me to visit and stay with my family. Is this not very weird or what? This pattern of behavior can be tested, verified and confirmed. Just ask others who are in the place of not accepting but questioning their beliefs and have family members in there.
Do you not think it is funny how that Mike and Dan say, "He was there only a short time and in such deep sin , how can he say what happened? It gets "Fuzzy" when you are so emotional." And yet I can articulate a description of them that reveals them for who they really are and if this is tested this information can be confirmed. Just test it. Don’t take me at my words. Mike and his group say I am slandering and fabricating. But you can “test all things and hold fast to that which is true”(1Thes 5:21).
Jesus has “cast all of our sins in the depths of the sea” (Micah 7:19) and removed them “as far away as the east is from the west” (Ps 103:12) and said "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.” (Isa 43:25) and “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. “ (1Jn 1:9). If God is faithful and just to forgive and forget then anyone else is unfaithful and unjust to bring sins up again and is contending with the living God who said “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”(Heb.10:31)
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speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:39 am: |
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Jesus, as the Son of God, paid the greatest price ever known, His very life. And He took the punishment and suffered for the sins that we know we have committed before a Holy God. And this man, Mike Peters, is where the Bible declares…
Hebrew 10:26-31
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
The Lord is the only judge of His people. Michael Peters and his cohorts are deliberately sinning against our God by trampling under foot the precious blood of the covenant of our only Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by denying its Power to completely forgive, remove and cleanse sin. Paul himself said even of himself:
Galatians 1:8-9
“ But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”
Mike Peters does not realize where he is heading as he enjoys his slaves but the Day will come that he will give an account for all the souls he has torn up through the recalling of their sins in Jesus sight. And for the lives he has manipulated and stolen from the one to whom they really belong , The Lion of the tribe of Judah!, Mike Peters will be repaid at the Judgement if he does not stop and repent And IF he STOPS this practice altogether with everyone for good then forgiveness is even offered to him when he humbles himself and rejects his deceptions.... This is the Love of Christ!
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speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:40 am: |
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Remember as God's Word also says:
1Cor. 4:20 “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.”
This wolf in disguise, Mike Peters has words but no power and if you “submit yourself to God and resist the Devil , he will flee”. Rest assured the battle is the Lord's. We are just joining together to blow the trumpet at the appointed time. But it is the Power of God that will bring the walls down. And even if there is only one with their family (as that of Jericho) who accepts the True Gospel, then they shall not perish but know the Power of our Living Christ to forgive and forget sins. This is settled in Heaven as “He is seated at the right hand of Power” until He has crushed all His enemies under His feet. And I am sure that as those from Jericho did not have thier past sins magnified and spoken of in judgment again without it being recognized as an evil offense, so we are to do the same .... FORGIVE when it has been done away with! For any sin of the flesh you could know is not as sick and reprehensible as recalling the sin God has forgiven. God is so very good! Don’t let the Devil steal this good from your heart.
Jesus Christ, the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world sets you FREE!!!
I love you all in this and Jesus Christ LOVES you infinitely more!
In Him,
Denny |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 8:46 pm: |
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Denny and I have set up an email account on praize.com for anyone who needs prayer or help concerning leaving a cult. I chose them for the free email hosting, so that our main email address would not be bombarded with the accusatory, hateful email that I know would come from certain individuals. Please understand that I do not agree theologically with everything I have seen on praize.com.
The email address is speakingtruth@praize.com
Thanks,
Jen Elslager
As my wife has said, this offer for counsel and prayer is posted to anyone who has questions or concerns regarding the group they are with. In particular (but not exclusively) those of you who have questions regarding "The church of Indianapolis" or its affiliates. We know some of the tactics used in this group and will not reveal your name or information given. We will not let your identity be known. If you decide later, after freedom, that your testimony could help free others, maybe you could also offer your testimony to others. We do understand some of the mental and emotion pressure there that may be exerted over some people due to this offer. But that will just make it real clear just what you are in and the fruit of the people seeking to control. If you don't already know, Mike Peters is very computer literate and very suspicious. So pray for wisdom in this. Remember Jesus is your Savior, not a mere human.
I have been there, and know other testimonies of some who were there much longer and found freedom. By God's Grace, Jen and I are willing to assist you. We don't claim to be experts, we are only people who have compassion for those in bondage and know the peace you too can have through knowing the Truth. We are here to pray for you.
2Cor 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
Not mental and emotional control by mere humans who use God's Holy Words and twist them through the bequiling deception of Satan.
May God grant you the grace to see and go FREE,
Denny Elslager |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:28 pm: |
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For your general information:
Be aware that the following url links directly to allathisfeet.com
www.housechurch.com
If you are interested in info about house churches, that is not what you will find there! This links to "THE church of Indianapolis".
Be warned.
Jen |
cult_fighter
New member
Username: cult_fighter
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 40.0.40.10
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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Dear Moderator: PLEASE do NOT discontinue this thread! A real, genuine, dangerous CULT is being exposed here -- a very important thing! Please notice that it is the cult's people who are asking you to drop this thread. The folks who were slandered (Dennis & wife) have NOT made this request.
To Dennis & Jen: God bless you! I appreciate your honestly and courage. You can probably expect some "slander lawsuit" threats from the Peterites soon. Never mind that it is unBiblical to sue fellow Christians, they believe they are above the Bible. But if they ever do threaten you, please DO let us know. "We" know things about Mikey Peters that he would never want the world to know! For example, Mike, why do you sleep with the lights on??? We won't expose you any further if you stop threatening Christians!
Just a short comment on the initial topic here: The Peterites are almost "famous" for their history of family-wrecking. I personally know of 3 couples where Mikey actually encouraged the wife to "exact punishment" on her "pagan" husband, telling her to withhold love, respect, submission, and even prayer from her own mate. The only reason he calls these husbands "pagans" is because they have rejected him (Mikey) and his teachings. Again, never mind that the Bible says these couples (husbands and wives) have been made "One" by the Lord. It's fine for the Peterites to separate these "Ones" when it suits their power-hungry needs.
Question: If the Peterites are not a cult, then why does "Indiana Families Against Cults" (IFAC) consider them a cult? (see link above). Next thing, we'll see the elderly couple who run IFAC attacked and called liars. This sweet couple has faithfully worked against cults (Mormons, etc.) for over 20 years. If anyone knows a cult, they do! (They're EX-Mormons themselves!)
Finally, notice the Peterites tactics: Rather than defend their actions, they attack everyone else. I've seen almost every poster here attacked (I'll be next), plus they've attacked Dennis, they attacked the Indy Star/News writer, and they attack FactNet. |
cult_fighter
New member
Username: cult_fighter
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 40.0.40.10
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 1:35 pm: |
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To Onetimeposter:
Thank GOD for FactNet !!! |
cult_fighter
New member
Username: cult_fighter
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 40.0.40.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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Finally, some GOOD news about this Peters cult: They are not as cultic as they once were! Like the Mormons, the almighty Reverend Peters must be getting some "new revelations" to stop some of their early obviously cultic practices. Check out the following website with a description of "early Peterism": http://spm1313.blogspot.com/2006/04/mystery-church-and-mike-peters.html |
cult_fighter
New member
Username: cult_fighter
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 40.0.40.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 3:54 pm: |
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By the way, here's a CLASSIC example of the way Mike characterizes those he disagrees with. On his website (http://www.allathisfeet.com/chatrooms/), he calls internet chatrooms (like this one), "Spiritual pornography". CUTE!! |
speakingtruth
New member
Username: speakingtruth
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 209.9.208.7
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 9:28 pm: |
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NOTICE: Due to the elusiveness of the Peters Group and the difficulty in knowing for certain their location, I have mistakenly given a wrong address earlier. I do apologize and wish for all to take notice so that there is no misleading information.
AGAIN: The address given in this thread is probably not actually the Mike Peter's group address. They are just plain sly and elusive. They tend to meet in homes and maybe once a month at the Indianapolis Zoo. Similarly, the follower's souls are behind "false doctrine" bars as if in a zoo. But for the sake of those who may be innocent I post this revised information. It has been brought to my attention that the Peters Group may be about 1 mile from the address listed earlier. As we correct and clarify our facts we will reveal and expose information needed for the public.
Dennis
The confusion is due in part to the two website addresses. www.churchinindianapolis.com goes straight to the allathisfeet info which is linked to Mike Peters group. The other website is www.churchinindianapolis.org and has the aforementioned address. This group has similar teachings and worship practices to the Peter's group in some ways. Though I know nothing of whether they add to and hold sins against their members for control purposes and try to break up families like Peters does. Most likely not.
Jen
(Message edited by speakingtruth on April 19, 2006) |
cult_fighter
New member
Username: cult_fighter
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 40.0.40.10
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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Everybody please notice how the Peterites OBEY their master! Pastor Mikey puts a "Thou shalt not go to internet chatrooms" on his website, and then suddenly --- they're all quiet!! If THAT doesn't illustrate "control", what does? |
cult_fighter
New member
Username: cult_fighter
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 40.0.40.10
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 9:40 am: |
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Here's a common, nauseating trait of Mike Peters and his Peterites: Whatever problems THEY have, they turn around and accuse others of. Examples:
(1) They are considered a CULT by almost everyone, including Indiana Families Against Cults. So what do they do? Check out Pastor Mike's teaching at: http://www.yourkingdomcome.com/isita.htm
In it, entitled "A Practical, Biblical Guide to Recognizing a Cult", he essentially says that any other church that isn't "built" the way they are, those other churches are cults!
(2) They whine are cry about being "slandered" by anyone who dares to criticize them. They've also sent out clear slander lawsuit threats to other Christians who dared to criticize them. BUT, what's the truth? We all saw the way Pastor Mike openly slandered Dennis Elslager! It was such obvious lying slander, that the Peterites cowardly requested their lies be deleted from this thread.
(3) Whenever someone tries to help a Peterite get free of their evil grip, those rescuers are accused of trying to "control" them. I think it's crystal clear who is controlling his followers -- Pastor Mike!
(4) The Peterites have harshly criticized us for posting anonymously. Yet, who is it who's famous for their secrecy. They refuse to admit, until you're sucked into their cult, that they tell their followers to cut off relations from all family members who don't follow their teachings. There's no way of knowing, until you're sucked in, that you are associating with a group started by Mike Peters. That's a big secret!
So, by extension, can we also conclude that Mike and his followers have other problems in which he criticizes others? Let's see, he's talked about the divorce rate in other churches. Is there a divorce problem among your followers, Mike? He also spotlighted that many Christians, including church leaders, are "addicted to pornography". Does the extension also mean that Mike himself has a serious problem with porn? Is this why he likes to use that word when he calls FactNet "spiritual pornography"? Is this why he was obsessed with describing the imaginary sexual sins of another man?
Come clean, Mike! Do you or do you not have a problem with Pornography? Until you 'fess up, I believe you do. |
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