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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2242
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.148.11.50
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 4:41 pm: | 
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It is concidered by GGWO leadership,that if a person disagrees with doctrine taught in it's meetings or questions a pastors message or if you leave that you are an enemy of the ministry.
To this I respond;Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Did they ever read this?
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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2243
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.148.11.50
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
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Matthew 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
To disagree is to be marked and shunned.No communication is allowed because of "perceived" evil or "cocatrice eggs."
Since those who leave are concidered enemies,isn't it the responcabilty of GGWO and it's affiliates to reach out and make amends with it's so called enemies?
Why do they not obey the Word of God?
Dave
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sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 625
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 7:06 am: |
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They don't want to make amends with anyone they percieve as a threat to their power, authority, false teaching and fleshly programs. Anyone who voices disagreement with GGWO is attacked and rejected and marked. They will use the marking to discredit and isolate anyone who speaks a word against their false teaching and corruption. GGWO thinks they're so perfect that anyone who disagrees with them is evil and off and should come back to GGWO to make amends with GGWO. At GGWO, to disagree with the leaders is always to disagree with God, so those who disagree with GGWO should do the repenting of disagreeing with God's special men and come back to GGWO to 'get right with God'. For some strange reasons, the GGWO leaders think they can slander those who won't blindly follow them even if they tell lies about them. How they can justify that with Scripture is beyond me. God will never approve of GGWO's marking behavior!!!
I for one am an enemy of the 'ministry'. If they think I will come back to Baltimore or one of their affiliates to 'repent' of disagreeing with GGWO teachings and the corruption of its leaders, they're crazy!!! Let them come back to me and go with me to all the people they slandered me to. Let them publicly retract all the lies and do the repenting out in the open. Let them prove their repentance in this way, since nothing less will cut it. Its time for GGWO to make the move and repair all the lives and reputations it ruined in the name of fleshly pastoral power and man made programs to promote the leaders at the expense of the people.
SIDETHORN |
kyled (kyled)
New member
Username: kyled
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 134.241.227.66
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:22 am: |
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sidethorn,
I've read a lot of these threads about GGWO and you seem to be involved in a lot of them. I don't go to a ggwo church, but I used to. I am familiar with their misguided teachings and also their accurate ones. I've learned a few things in reference to GGWO and any minstry for that matter. First, to learn from their mistakes. Not to associate with wrong doctrine and even have a separation if there is a refusal to bend on certain critical issues. Second, as bad as a place might be, certain ministries, but not all, are still our brothers in Christ. While I think GGWO is misguided they are still our brothers and need our prayer. AS our friend Dave commented "love even your enemies. I don't know how much you've been hurt but it seems like your angry and fighting fire with fire. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I just know that when I'm hurt bitterness has the potential of ruining my life. Maybe prayers can infuse life to a dying, even corrupt ministry. Third, there is some good to be found in GGWO though it may be hard. I've learned things from them that I will copy for the rest of my life. Not many things, but some nonetheless. All churches, unless they are not God's church has some good to be seen. Again, Im not trying to make waves. I've just read a lot of anger and I know how destructive that can be to the spiritual life. If you need prayer or anything feel free to respond.
Kyle |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2278
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.235.28.20
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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Hi Kyle,
don't misunderstand.I am angry.
I am angry that the body of Christ is being subjected to such manipulative lies and abusive ,deceptive practices.
I'm angry that these so called pastors have no interest in the least as to correction from a Biblical perspective.
I'm really angry that such wicked practices are doing tremendous harm to individual relationship with Christ.
I want it stopped and will tell everyone I meet to be very careful about what they receive as Truth.
I will name names because those names I will mention are opposed to submitting themselves to the scriptures.
They seek their own and not that of Christ.
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sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 637
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.91.31
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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Kyle:
I don't doubt for a second that there are plenty of brothers and sisters in Christ in GGWO and that have come out of GGWO. I also will not stand and judge whether Carl Stevens, John Love or others are saved or not. Only God really knows that. I leave that up to Him.
However, as a former youth worker, I've seen the devastating effects of brainwashing, false teaching, and alienation of people including kids. I cannot in good conscience stay silent about it. I will get the word out and I will play hardball here. This is no game. To get my points across I have to use strongly worded posts due to the grave depravity of the GGWO leadership and its wreckless disregard for the welfare of people. I do get really furious about it but I don't dwell about it all the time. I have a heart for young people and I do go after those who would harm and mislead them. Greater Grace has done plenty to justify that. Even though GGWO has brothers and sisters in Christ, I am committed to the destruction of this cult. I hope the leaders there repent and turn it into a healthy church ministry but I'm not counting on that happening. Carl Stevens and his henchmen have openly displayed incredible hardness of heart and arrogance. God usually brings down such men. If these GGWO leaders will not repent, I will continue to expose them and do what I can to help undermine this cult until it collapses. God will be the One to determine the final outcome here. But God is using Factnet and many of its posters to do His work. I've already been used by God to undermine GGWO and its false teaching from within to lead some kids and parents out of there. I will not hesitate to play a part from undermining GGWO from the outside. This is a dangerous cult that must be stopped as soon as possible. |
lmao (lmao)
Intermediate Member
Username: lmao
Post Number: 237
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 6:28 pm: |
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Here are some more thoughts to add to the mix.
As for me, I stayed in tbs/gg for over twenty years because of the accurate teachings. I thought the bad stuff could not be true because of the truth that was taught. I thought the leadership was honorable and godly because of what they taught. When Pastor told us that those who left the ministry were no longer serving God or were negative or infected, I just assumed he was telling the truth. What I have since learned is that this man who I loved and trusted repeatedly lied to me. He lied about the court case. He lied about the '81 "conspiracy". He lied against the very truth he taught every time he marked someone. He told his lies with the same conviction, sincerity and dogmatism that he used when he preached the truth of the Gospel. Is it any wonder that when we found out he was lying that some of us stopped believing in God entirely? We wonder if any of it could be true if a man preaching victory in Jesus for so many years could have no victory. Thanks to the non-meritorious work of the Holy Spirit, many of us have discerned much of what was and what wasn't true and find ourselves growing in Christ again.
There are many godly people who are still there and are truly serving God. I believe they think like I thought. There relationship with God is honest and real. For the time being at least, they have convictions that prevent them from listening to "evil reports" telling of the corruption in the leadership. But God is faithful and in time they will be faced with the corruption and make the right choice. Some are struggling with the choice now.
We probably all know people who saw the corruption revealed last year through Sandy Cove, the Schaller takeover, etc. and made a conscious decision to stay there and "believe the best". Maybe the real reason is that they think they are too old or their business will suffer or they will loose their friends or what if that curse thing is true? Whatever the reason, they need to somehow deal with their cognitive dissonance. Some just need more time while others have chosen to ignore what they personally witnessed and somehow pretend everything is OK. |
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