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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2179
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.235.31.210
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 9:31 am: | 
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Posted on FACTNET Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 6:28 pm:
by: Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
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SUMMARY Why is GGWO on FACTNet?
The following information was gathered from many sources. Most have been provided by the eyewitness testimonies of both former and current GGWO staff members. They have provided a first-hand account of sinful wrongdoings, pervasive deceitfulness and calculated attempts to avoid any form or level of accountability by, not only those in positions of authority within GGWO, but its leader and ultimate authority Carl H. Stevens.
Over many years individuals who had witnessed situations including, but not limited to, biblically incorrect doctrine, improper use of church funds and gross mistreatment of members have approached Carl Stevens in an attempt to discuss those issues. Their attempts were met with denials, deceptions and diversions.
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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2180
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.235.31.210
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 9:32 am: |
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The unresolved, continuing issues are:
Improper understanding and use of delegated authority This is documented in the CRI/ Martin Report, Dovydenas Case court transcripts, Lake Elsinore disaffiliation letter and the personal testimony of former members.
No public polity of correction and/or discipline of a pastor There is no written, published, distributed, referenced or practiced biblical process, specifically with regard to the behavior by Carl Stevens. He has never been corrected or disciplined for malevolent actions.
Lack of conformity to preached doctrine Carl Stevens has established a biblical doctrine that actively discourages slander or gossip. He clearly instructs his followers not to practice these tactics. He does not abide by this doctrine, specifically when referring to exiting members or those who question his ministry in any way.
Malicious treatment of exiting church members by the leader This has been actively practiced by Carl Stevens for over 30 years. Within both small groups and in front of the entire congregation, he has maligned the character of those leaving the group by using slander and gossip. He considers those leaving his ministry for any reason to be his enemy and treats and refers to them as such.
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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2181
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.235.31.210
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 9:33 am: |
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Mental status changes of the leader Within both small groups and in front of the entire congregation, Carl Stevens has exhibited slurred and unintelligible speech, lapses in recall and judgment resulting in both an inability to effectively communicate to his followers and the profession of false doctrine. On 7/14/2004 it was necessary for him to be prompted in order to continue the service. On 6/25/04 he made statements that were faulty and biblically inaccurate. He was approached regarding the doctrinal issue and made assurances privately that he would correct himself and his false teaching publicly at the next service, but he did not.
Active substance abuse by the leader It is known to many that Carl Stevens struggles with a substance abuse problem that has on occasion become life threatening. His misuse of prescription narcotics has contributed to the deterioration of his cognitive state. He has strenuously resisted the intervention of his family members.
Malicious treatment of family member by the leader When a member of leadership who is an immediate family member of Carl Stevens attempted to address the substance abuse of the leader, a written indictment of the person was composed and the church by-laws were changed to prevent the person from succeeding him as leader. There is written documentation of these actions. In addition, deceitful practices were employed in order to prevent the family member from attending these meetings while the documents were being crafted. Further, condemning, malicious statements were made publicly about the person by Stevens during services resulting in that family member being considered an enemy of the Baltimore church. All of these actions were taken without regard that the intervention of the family member motivated only by love had possibly saved the life of the leader. Further, when this family member began a separate church in general proximity to but not in competition with the Baltimore church, he was again the subject of indirect verbal attack by Carl Stevens during services.
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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2182
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.235.31.210
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
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Inaction of those in leadership regarding the substance abuse of the leader - The elders of the Baltimore church and some affiliated ministries are aware that Carl Stevens is misusing prescription drugs and have not acted to address the issues relative to that abuse. They have not followed through on the initial action they had taken. They are not assisting him in receiving treatment and continue to enable his self-destructive behavior, allowing him to repeatedly embarrass himself in public.
Disunity and discord between the elders There is infighting among the elders, who are perplexed and indecisive regarding the issues related to the leader. There is a lack of consensus and, therefore, a lack of action to resolve the issues and bring the church back into a state of biblical compliance. This inaction has allowed situations to continue and problems to multiply.
Deception of the church members by the elders The elders have not only dishonestly related the truth regarding the leaders substance abuse to his followers, but they have actively lied to prevent public disclosure of it.
Failure to act in a manner that is dutiful to the position of elder The elders have not been faithful in their duties by failing to act on the numerous breaches of biblical doctrine and behavior by Carl Stevens.
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david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2183
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.235.31.210
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 9:35 am: |
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Intimidation, manipulation and coercion by an elder Written internal documents have been composed and distributed by an elder regarding issues with other persons in leadership positions which contain fabricated details and falsehoods in a foolish attempt to intimidate, manipulate and/or coerce the receivers into behaving in a certain manner. Other staff members are aware of these specious indictments and do not address the unbiblical action.
Violation of accepted biblical doctrine by the leader regarding an accusation of a church member Allegations of wrong-doing, subsequently determined to be false, were received by Carl Stevens and the elders in the absence of the accused member, a clear violation of scripture. The accuser was bound by an oath not to say speak of the issue to the member, even if asked directly. The elders were also instructed to say nothing to the member or spouse.
Inappropriate use of church funds by the leader An adulterous affair by a staff pastor resulted in money being paid as part of a concerted effort to keep an unethical, possibly illegal, situation from being made public.
Malicious treatment of a victimized spouse by the leader - Carl Stevens, along with church elders, actively and aggressively maligned the character of the husband victimized by an adulterous affair in front of the entire congregation.
Public profession of false biblical doctrines by the leader These include, but are not limited to, delegated authority, salvation by obedience, the presentation of the believer at the Bema Seat by the leader. It is evidenced in both spoken and written form by publications by and recordings of the leader.
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redsnapper (redsnapper)
New member
Username: redsnapper
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 216.183.184.253
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:43 pm: |
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Dave Munson aka/D.M.
said " All of these actions were taken without regard that the intervention of the family member motivated only by love had possibly saved the life of the leader"
While I agree with the broader content of your post, I think you are mistaken on this one point.
Your reference of Paul Stevens motives doesn't fit. Paul stood to gain the Head pastor position if he could albeit lovingly persuade dear old drug addicted dad to step aside. Paul was also motivated at the time by the encouragement of a number of insiders who gave him the distinct impression that they stood behind him on this. But when 'good 'ole paul confronted pastor-dad
Carl snapped. The support system of pals that paul thought he had EVAPORATED immediately while they ran for cover. Some even confided to Carl that Paul had been schemin' this one all along.
Paul often came across with that weasel like "I'm just tellin you this in love" approach not uncommon amongst tiny little ggwo pastors.
He just did not think dad would turn on him.
Especially after dear old pastor-dad arranged to pay off pauls large legal settlement with money from the ministry coffers just a year before.
Yes D.M. your assesment does not fit,
and ladys and gentlemen,
if it does not fit,
you must acquit. |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 489
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:50 pm: |
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apples falling close to the tree... |
pressing_on1 (pressing_on1)
Member
Username: pressing_on1
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 68.55.28.119
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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Dear ole redsnapper if you only knew the "whole truth", guess we'll never know that.
Since your assesment doesn't fit, you must aquit. |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 605
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:23 pm: |
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Pressing On, I second that motion to acquit. That last assessment doesn't fit!!! Dave M, I don't know what has come over you brother, but what a victims advocate you could be. That was some good stuff. Thanks for the enlightment.
Shalom Gone to PA |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.140.247.140
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
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The above post was originally posted by Anonymous 64.12.117.20.
Credit where credit is due.
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lmao (lmao)
Intermediate Member
Username: lmao
Post Number: 231
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 4:53 pm: |
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The only fact I will challenge is change of bylaws. My understanding is that the amendment in 2005 changing Chief elder to Presiding elder was the first change in bylaws since 1987. There may have been additional changes since the 2005 amendment that I am not aware of.
What may have happened is that elders were added to the Board making it difficult for Paul to just take over. Someone else would have to confirm who the elders were when Paul was there, but only three were required.
Regardless of the political maneuvering that took place to push Paul out of gg, his own sin disqualified him from serving on any Board of Elders, at least temporarily. |
pressing_on1 (pressing_on1)
Member
Username: pressing_on1
Post Number: 78
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 151.196.170.220
| | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 12:14 am: |
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How long would temporarily be? Seeing the sin ended over six years ago and it was only brought up because he tried to help his dad who was killing himself.
And actually it was a few elders who told Paul to take over and then went to Carl complaining he was trying to take over because they knew Carl would do away with him just like he did anyone else who went against him.
Then they could claim right to the position.
I have to say it stirred faith in people inside of greater grace and in those who left. The question is, was it a faith that had to prove it was victorious, one that had another motive and or cause other than the cause of Christ.
Or was it a faith that totally trusted in God for the outcome reguardless.
In many who have left I have seen, it was a decision of trusting in God no matter what the outcome. For they esteemed the reproach of God greater than riches of comfort.
I have to say I have seen the fruits of the spirit revealed more than ever in many of the lives of those I know who have left. That is the fruit that will remain forever. |
lmao (lmao)
Intermediate Member
Username: lmao
Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 7:24 pm: |
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How long would temporarily be? I don't know enough about the person or the sin to make a determination. What we do know is that it was not properly dealt with at gg when it happened. Had it been properly dealt with, he probably would have been restored to his position by the time he was forced out 2 or 3 years ago.
However, assuming he was allowed to take over gg in place of chs, would he be the person he is today or would he have been content to keep the system going along as it was and still is? I am glad for the way it is now and I totally agree with you about the fruit in the lives of those who left gg.
For those who go to his church because they love the people and are blessed and built up by the message, that is great. I wish them well. For those who go to Paul or Steve's church because they think one of them was the rightful successor to chs, then their mind is still in the system. I think most go for the right reasons. |
pressing_on1 (pressing_on1)
Member
Username: pressing_on1
Post Number: 80
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 151.196.117.175
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 10:51 pm: |
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Your right, both Paul, Steve, and all the other pastors who stepped outside needed all of this to take place or they would have remained under the same system.
As we see now the system was not and is not God's order. The past circumstances proved that to be true.
However some still stick to it, as one pastor said as to why he didn't attend Sandy Cove, "if there is nothing wrong why change it" .
Doctrine's are taught incorrectly, if that alone is not enough to change then I guess Gods word is not greater than mans in that system.
As far as people going to Pauls church because he was supposedly Gods man for the system, go have a talk with them, doubt you'll find ones who do.
This is exactly how God wanted it to play out, He's a redemptive God and the fruit of that redemption is spread throughout many churches.
That postion needs to be given back to God first, and He alone should have the right to choose who He want's to fulfill it. I am sure His choice would involve one to clean up the system, and to place Him back on the throne in that place.
I don't care how much people do in the name of the Lord, If the fruits of the spirit aren't prevelant then it's not the Holy Spirit.
(But Lord I did this in your name and that in your name "depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never "knew" you)
These words will come out of Gods mouth just as they are written in His word. The men he's talking about are those who never had communion alone with Him, they never allowed the Holy Spirit the room to fill them with His fruit, the only fruit that will remain forever.
It's not how big your church is, or how many places you've been in, or how much you've given, these are all temporal.
It's how much time did we spend in fellowship alone with God getting to know Him, so that His life would be manifested through us by His fruit, fulfilling His work.
Thats the fruit that is eternal, fruit that no man can rob, manipulate, or glory in.
It's takes the marks of the cross in a man, is he willing to lay down his life to his own hurt for the sake of sheep. |
lmao (lmao)
Intermediate Member
Username: lmao
Post Number: 233
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 5:33 am: |
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I agree with every thing you just wrote. |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2199
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.145.114.93
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 8:51 am: |
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"It's takes the marks of the cross in a man, is he willing to lay down his life to his own hurt for the sake of sheep."
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That's the absolute truth.
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