| Author | Message | ||
     arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1385 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
hey how many people on this board are pentecostal? trinity? oneness? lets have a board where we can just talk about our churches how each believes with out getting int an arguement. | ||
| justaman (justaman) New member Username: justaman Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.109.75.14 |
I was raised pentecostal. Assemblies of God. I was away, but have gone to the church I was raised in last Sunday. It was to honor a Christian Correctional Officer that had fallen in the line of duty. I have given my life to Christ once again. It's amazing how I have managed to cling to alot of my beliefs, even while I was away from Christ. It felt good to set my foot inside that place. Like coming home again. | ||
| weaned_child (weaned_child) New member Username: weaned_child Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 24.33.19.129 |
Praise the Name of the Lord, justaman, how edifying. | ||
| justaman (justaman) New member Username: justaman Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.109.75.14 |
...Turns out now that this "fallen Christian Correctional Officer" was of the Mormon faith. Didn't know that, until I read the paper. I still feel love for him. | ||
| willum (willum) New member Username: willum Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 69.221.220.113 |
I am trinity Pentecostal, AG. I am against the present trend of ecumenism of the AG with Roman Catholics. Azusa7552@sbcglobal.net | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1457 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
glad to see you willum i too am pentecostal, trinity. i don agree with mixing with the catholics either | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1813 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.205.23 |
well a lot of the pentacostals are mixing with other people who dont believe in holiness and teach directly against it. now it is hard to go with these people. if we were haveing a prayer meeting and that is all just praying i could pray with them but to listen to them blast my faith no i could not do that. i can worship with anyone as long as they leave my beliefs alone. i leave theirs alone. | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.162.0.46 |
willum (willum) I don't understand your post here about the catholics? I too am AG Minster | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2352 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
the mixing with the catholics i think is when one allows them to sit on their church boards or on their platforms allowing them to preach at their services. | ||
| seamaiden New member Username: seamaiden Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 128.172.175.43 |
profound... | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2394 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
yes i get in a good one ever once in a while | ||
| seamaiden Junior Member Username: seamaiden Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 128.172.175.43 |
why does man need need sects? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2397 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
i do not have sex any more not since my wife died. i am totaly commintted to her still even though she has been gone ofr 8 years. i do not belong to a sect either. i belong to a church that is commited to folowing THE LORD JESUS and HIS TEACHINGS . be good i am praying for you | ||
| onelitfirefly New member Username: onelitfirefly Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 74.194.60.6 |
I'm a Trinitarian Pentecostal. You should email me sometime, Arron! Do you have a Facebook? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3275 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
pnelitfirefly...... no i do not have a face book i also prefer to write on these threads as i do not givve out my email | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3277 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
onelitfirefly,,,,, i too am trinotarian pentecostal. no offence but i prefer to write on the treads. so we will do that ok? we believe in all the gifts and the baptisum of THE HOLY GHOST with the eveidence o tongues we believe that they all are valid for today | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 841 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.157.3 |
Aaron, Does your church have a web site. If so, what is it? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3280 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
sorry ...no we dod not have a web site. | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 845 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.157.3 |
No website...ok. The reason that I ask is that the gifts of the Spirit are supposed to help build the church. If a church wants to reach people, they need to be culturally sensitive. In order to reach today's culture, it is a must to be on the web. I have noticed that most small Pentacostal church's talk big about ministry, yet they are more comfortable practicing there spiritual acrobatics than reaching people. Please note, I consider myself an evangelical with a Charismatic flare. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Intermediate Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. Bear: You might note that pentecostalism does its best recruiting those with a strong history of the occult. Many in the occult tend to be educationally and functionally illiterate. The biggest number of recruits come from the nations that form Africa. In the United States, you will find the bulk of pentecostalism in the back waters, hick towns or any term you are familiar with. As Mr. Arron has proven, few pentecostals are capable of conversing on the internet. My guess is that Mr. Arron is in his twenties or thirties, college educated and enjoys playing games. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3282 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
not aposyolic in our church we do not recruit any one if a person comes to the altar asking GOD for salvation we acept them as being saved if they prove by their lives or by their beliefs that they are not saved then we do not cept them they are free to come of couse if tey wish to church. we are not in the "back waters. nor are we a hick town" we are a small church yes, but we are growning and have real saved church members who are not involvoed in any cult or occult movement. we do not have a website because for one thing i am not in charge of that. we reach people by our liveing and by our oral testimony to them. we only have a few who had any dealings with the occult. i am american and white i am not from and have never been to africa. i am educated some what at least and i am not functionaly illiterate either . i have sense and i can understand what is written in THE BIBLE WHICH IS GODS WORD for us today. it is people who think they are so highly educated( like yourself ) that have become fools in their thinking and get lost in the education of studing other things than THE WORD OF GOD | ||
| rachelengland New member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
ARRON, ARRON, ARRON!!!! Hope you are well-and listen just like everybody else around here this poster ATM has an agenda and in order to see his/her agenda fullfilled and people attending apostolic churches he/she is drawing negative attention to pentacostals. This person obviously doesn't have real good discernment as you might say because they has you pinned down all wrong-be very careful what personal information you give out about yourself and your church here arron. Pentecostal churches, like any other denomination can have it's downfalls but the churches I have witnessed that have the most signs of the occult and new age practices are those charasmatic, non-denominational churches who have broken off from the pentecostal church and become independant of any real schooled authority. BACKWOODS atm calls them-come on most of these so-call charasmatic churches HAVE the biggest buildings, upscale websites and all the perfect programs but look what lies beneath-false doctrines and foolishness that blind people from the truth. A false sense of reality that would remind you of mentality of the stepford wives..Those little pentecostal congregations are barely the problem in this religious society because people are drawn to what is popular, modern and succesful..... Take Care Arron- people on the internet can be dangerous for your health and well being! | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
thanks rachel england.. the not apostolic cant hurt me for i am saved BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS nad i dont think they are saved at all i am waithing for their answer | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
M(r)(s). rachelengland: Hello M(r)(s). Rachel, I presume you know my comment about the occult to be true? The homosexual Charles Fox Parham, the founder of white pentecostalism, stated in his September 1906 Apostolic Faith Newspaper that pentecostalism's altar was awash in the occult. All the growth in pentecostalism has come from neighborhoods rich in the occult. Just the plain simple facts. | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
rachelengland tatm is not affiliated with the apostolic church she/he/ cant be for they believe that you Baptise only in JESUS NAME. in my opinion thye are just an unbeliever that like to showoff their education (which they dont have much of spirituually) they are just stupid in their actions toward the pentecostal church. it reall doesnt matter to me any more | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
You are right, Mr. Arron, I am not asociated with the pentecostal church. I am a Christian, just to set the record set. You are right a second time, I rely exclusively on my education. The Holy Spirit taught me to rest on the Word of God, not the spirit of man. now that we have found common ground, we can move forward. Now deal with the founder and inventor of your religion, the homosexual Charles Fox Parham! | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
common ground i have no common ground with an unbeliever and you are an unbeliever. | ||
| rachelengland New member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Well the fact of the matter is this-we can find within any "christian" denomination flaws and failures-when men are involved, they will always put their little spin on the Bible-it's human nature to have ideas and theories isn't it? Parnum failed(so they say, for most is mearly allegations and hearsay) but I highly doubt many penteostals are even aware of this man for he was just icing on the cake. ATM are you saying that you believe that anyone who follows the beliefs of the pentecostal movement are unsaved individuals? If so what must these people do in order to be saved-what church must they attend in order to pass through the pearly gates...could you give me some insight into this. RE "Pentecostals believe that one must be saved by believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior for the forgiveness of sins and to be made acceptable to God. Pentecostals also typically believe, like most other evangelicals, that the Bible has definitive authority in matters of faith". | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
M(r)(s). rachelengland: Have you ever read the Bible? The book of Romans tells us point blank, when man hardens his heart to God, God gives him over to a reprobate mind. Do you think God had anything to do with a child molesting homosexual? Do you really believe God CHOSE a child molestor to invent an all new religion? Who is the father of the lie? God or Sataan? | ||
| rachelengland New member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
ATM-though I am not a pentecostal-I will tell you this..God can use whomever He wants to get His message accross to the masses.. From what I see in my above post- Pentecostals believe Christ to be the way the truth and the life..sounds like they got that part right? I highly doubt any of these posters really knew that much about Parnum -if a man is forgotten he obviously didn't leave a legacy of importance-But Christ has never and will never be forgotten. It sounds to me like you are breeding hatred towards a certain group of people whose ideas differ from yours- tell us why such contempt-were you disciplined by this group or cast out from a congregation?? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
No my dear friend, God commanded I take up an apologics ministry minstering to those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism. You are right. pentecostalism does deny Parham's contributions to that religion. Do you have any idea why? | ||
| rachelengland New member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
"No my dear friend, God commanded I take up an apologics ministry minstering to those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism".ATM Well everybody has got to be called to some place I suppose...But if we dive deep enough into any denomoination- we see each one has a downfall and a man or woman who gave it a bad name... I do not like labels Sandy (and if you really fought for my freedom I thank you sir)-I do not care much for scam artists but if another wants to speak in tongues and shake like snake and run around the church until they are blue in the face..who am I to care ..some like Jazz,Others perfer heavy metal-it's really about preference. I will tell you however- if it endangers ones life than it is wrong, if it steals from the poor or harbors ill will towards one who is of a different race -it is wrong/with that we can agree..but to get hung up on petty issues will lead us no where but farther from each other. I know my friend arron has a great love for the Lord-he and I do not agree on everything-but one will not find themselves in eternal hell because they attend a pentecostal church...R (Message edited by rachelengland on April 25, 2007) | ||
| friend New member Username: friend Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.162.203.195 |
Apostolic writes: "homosexual Charles Fox Parham". Where is the evidence of this? If there is none, then I would consider it bearing false witness. But perhaps you're correct. Could you kindly guide me to a site which documents this? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
M(r)(s). rachelengland: Quoting: "get hung up on petty issues will lead us no where but farther from each other." End quote. Had Jesus Christ compromised on just one point, he would have lived to a ripe old age. Perhaps instead of asking what would Jesus do, Jesus should have asked what would rachelengland do. | ||
| rachelengland New member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
I think that if Jesus were here today -you would think He had compromised when instead of having the woman stoned- he said go and sin no more. You would of thought it a compromise that he took a tax collector as his running mate. Don't pretend to speak for God-speak from your heart the truth is YOU do not like the pentecostal denomination( I am not to keen on it either) and your disapproval of pentecostals has nothing to do with Jesus. You have another agenda- I just haven't figured it out yet. Ms. Rachelengland | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
M(r)(s). rachelengland: The passage you allude to is not in the original manuscripts. You may want to use it sparingly. In fact, that passage and Mark 16:9 - 20 were added by the Roman Church to prove free will (baptism = regeneration). Compromise and mercy are found in two different courts, my dear friend. It is a wise judge who gives place to the culpable and a fool who sleeps with the emulator of evil! | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
M(r)(s). friend: I apologize to you. I simply overlooked your post. I answered the question under the topic "The Origins of pentecostal Tongues." I must also acknowledge that I found a great deal of humor in the question. Humor, because I asked the same question of the owner of the Assembly of God, General Superintendent Woods. Mr. Woods offered to send me a book on the subject. The book arrived a short time later in the mail. Beginning on the first page, it was painfully obvious the book was written for pentecostal consumption and not human consumption. The book began by explaining that Parham was falsely accused by a Baptist minister in Texas. When the case came to trial, none of his accusers showed up. I called back to Mr. Woods, and laughed at the book. He said he would send the truth to me. A short time later, I received the second book. It too was written for pentecostal consumption. In that book, the AoG claimed Parham was a child molesting homosexual. However coma, Parham founded Oneness pentecostalism and not white pentecostalism. When I called back Mr. Woods hung up on me. Book 1. Any tinhorn fool will tell you that sodomy was not against secular law in 1906. Prostitution was available at the nearest bar. Women did not have the right to vote. Child labor laws had not been written. Orphanages were little more than slave labor camps for farmers. Anyone, requardless of age, who had the money could and did purchase alcohol at the corner bar. Drugs were available without prescriptions at the local general mercantile store. Babies were born at home. 99% of the population were illiterate. Book 2. The Oneness pentecostalism Movement was not invented until 1956. Parham was long since dead. Besides, I had already read the story of the Azusa Street Revival. I knew the answer. Your Ever Humble Servant, Rev. Sandy Bryant DD. Counter-cult Apologist | ||
| friend New member Username: friend Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.162.203.195 |
Just curious, apostolic. From where did you receive your doctorate? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
M(r)(s). Friend: When dealing with pentecostals, it is impossible to keep the discussion on one track. The sources I quoted are all pentecostal. | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
I go to a pentecostal church. and I love it | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
I believe in oneness | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
Mromons are great people. I use to be a Mormon, I am not anymore. my family and I now go to the pentecostal church here in spokane wa . It was very hard for me to leave the LDS church we loved it,, they loved us very much and we loved them.. | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
dreama275 i am not oneness but i am pentecostal. i am not a mormon and do not believe in ther doctrines. i am a triniterian,belivieng in THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST . yes the mormons show lots of love but they are mixed up on their doctrines. i am glad you are pentecostal at least | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Come, Mr. Arron: Quoting: "i am glad you are pentecostal at least." End quote. Why pentecostal and not christian? I mean other than the obvious answer. If oneness theology is false, from whence do they get their tongues? | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
Thank you I am glad also..... My family and I love it.. We love God and all hes done for us  | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
I am christian... and still learning. My church teaches onenes,, | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
dreama i am a christian first of all and pentecostal is my religion. and i do not beleive that all are false just cause they teach different from other pentecostal. i even know one grom who claim holiness but do not believe in pentecost. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 52 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. dreama275: Not according to scripture. Both churches you mention are in gross error. Brigham Young writing in sermon in 1852 stated infallibly that Jesus Christ is the illegitimate byproduct of a polygamous relationship between Adam God and Mary. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ain't christian, sorry. The church you attend now is far from Christianity. If you are in a UPCI church, your 60 questions on the Godhead doctrine was written by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses, Bible Students, etc.). If an independent oneness church, your Oneness Theology was written in 1956 by David Bernard. Mr. Bernard claims that Jesus Christ is his own daddy. For the sake of your family, I wery strongly suggest you find a licensed Christian counselor to talk to. May I bloviate? I am working with a young lady excommunicated from a UPCI church. She exposed faked infantile gibberish for exactly what it is. Her pastor booted her from the church. UPCI moved her husband and children into hiding to keep the children away from their mother. We are trying to locate the husband so he can be forced to surrender the children to the DHS. I sincerely fear for your life. Please go see a Christian counselor from outside your church, now! Please. | ||
| arron Junior Member Username: arron Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
dreama dont listen to people who want even tell what they believe. you just keep holding on to JESUS andserving him, you dont need counseling by any licensed or other wise person. when a person get hold of your mind they have got you dont let it happen to you | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
I am out of the Mormon church now,. have been for two months, I was a convert, I didn't grow up in it.. I do not think Mormons are christians either, I know they are not because they do not speak of the traditional christ.. So I have learned its the wrong church for my family and I. Please don't fear for my life,God is great and got us out of the Mormon church. I won't let that happen to me Arron, I am a strong with my mind and body. | ||
| arron Junior Member Username: arron Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
praise JESUS my good friend dreama. just hold on. | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
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| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Thank you, Mr. Arron: Quoting: "when a person get hold of your mind they have got you dont let it happen to you." End quote. I could not have described pentecostalism any better than you do! | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 57 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. Dreama275: In reading other post from you, you sound like a relatively young person. May I ask how many funerals have you attended? The last funeral I preached was a three year old girl. Two days before the funeral, the little girl was decalred healed by her pastor on national tv. Every moment you spend in the grip of the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism, you life is in grave danger. Seek help today to find a real church. | ||
| arron Junior Member Username: arron Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
how many of his her cult have been prayed for and died the next few days. we all die sometime or other | ||
| dreama275 New member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
I am 34. Not to young. Never went to a funeral. I have had a lot of friends die thats for sure, most I went to high school with, whats a real church? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. Arron: Quoting: "we all die sometime." End quote. The next time I preach a funeral for a three-year-old child, you can explain that to the mother. Thank you. | ||
| dreama275 Junior Member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
I would rather be pentecostal then Mormon any day I am sad for the little child that died, I love kids, I have two kids also they are teens now but still my babys and we are a close family most of the time we hang out together, | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. Dreama275: A real church believes God's (w)Holy Inspired Inerrant Word for the Ages. If you won't seek licensed help, at least get and read Kingdom of Cults by Walter Martin. The church you are in is no better than the Mormon church, possible worst. Read my thread entitled "The Origins of pentecostal Tongues." All of pentecostalism is into mind control. Faked infantile gibberish is an excellent example of crapology. You mention wearing pants. Your chosen religion does not permit you to do so. Nor can you cut your hair or wear makeup. You will be told how to dress your children and what school to send them too. You will be told how to spend your money and who to give it to. I deal with those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism every day. | ||
| dreama275 Junior Member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
Not in the church I go to, I can see they teach the bible... If I see something I don't understand I will ask. | ||
| dreama275 Junior Member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
This is so funny . Why do I need so much help? Licensed help at that.. | ||
| ezekiel_37 New member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.71.84.189 |
TATM is fearful, that because you are new to Christianity, you may feel that the teachings of the Pentecostal church are fact. There are some practices that are common to most Pentecostal churches that are against the Bible's instructions. Your church is not the only church denomination. All of the denominations have different theologies, and ways to live. Personally I would suggest that you look at all the different denominations, and their theologies, and see which one suits your understanding of the bible. If the theology is contrary to what the Word says, then don't go there or follow. If you have wondered about the "tongues" thing, then please read the thread 1Cor14-tongues and the other thread that turtle started Tongues are we pathetic...in the Doctrines section. and see the thoughts behind each of us that responded. In short, there is no such thing as a gibberish prayer language, there is no example in the bible of God speaking to people in a gibberish, There is no message that God will speak aloud that ALL there will not here, There is no rapture before the 7th trump (and that is when Christ gets here). God likes order, and discipline. People shaking around on the ground is not what He wants. Prayer is great, and so is out-bounding prayer, but not nonsense. Sing to God, but do so intelligently, not babyling stuff that can't be understood. We have biblical example to follow to see what God wants, and that example is found all the way through the bible, not just in one verse. Taking a verse or two out of context happens all the time, and it is unfortunate. There are many good Christians in the Pentecostal faith, however most of them are fooled into thinking that the 'tongues' phenomena is legitimately from God, and it just isn't so. They have an emotional response and believe that it is from God, but in reality they don't have anything to base that feeling against. They just assume. the Power of the Holy Spirit is truly awesome and life changing. We believers know that. This leaves one with some choices... either God mumbles and speaks gibberish and understands incoherent thought, or it is fake. from a con man/woman or a familiar spirit (evil spirit/demon) which we know exist because Christ dealt with them. They exist friend. They will tell you anything that THEY want, and the people there usually buy it lock stock and barrel. money, money, money, deception, pre-trib rapture, worship the fake Christ many in this denomination won't know that the antiChrist is Satan, they will think that he is actually Christ....come to rapture them away. They teach a person to accept the first Jesus that arrives. Problem is that the first Jesus to arrive is the anti-Christ, the fake ... the man of Sin ... the son of Perdition ... the man of Lawlessness ... Satan himself ... Lucifer ... the king of Babylon ... the false prophet ... Christ comes AFTER the fake. The fake comes BEFORE the 7th trump, and Christ comes AT the 7th trump. Many questionable parts of the pentecostal doctrine. There are also some aspects of faith that we all have in common. They have some things right, for sure. For that matter, so do the Mormons and JW's. Also, so do the Catholics and many if not all of the divisions in Christianity. There shouldn't be division in Christ but there just is. There is so many different opinions and some of them are confusing. Anyway, just trying to look out for you. in His service c | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. Dreama275: Quoting: "Not in the church I go to, I can see they teach the bible... If I see something I don't understand I will ask." End quote. What book do you believe David Koresh and Jim Jones preached from? Do you really believe the folks in the People's Temple and the Branch Davidian were stupid? Do you really believe they were too ignorant to pick the Bible up and read it for themselves? Did you know that your religion was a major supporter of Jim Jones? It is true! He preached tongues and held healing services just like your church. Both (Jones/Koresh) taught baptism (Acts 2:38) = regeneration (Acts 3:19) as the only means of salvation. So if you think Jim Jones or David Koresh led a cult, guess what? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. ezekiel_37: Quoting: "There is no rapture before the 7th trump (and that is when Christ gets here)." End quote. I, personally, rarely engage in end times arguments. Unfortunately, having dealt with pentecostals for many years, I still see thousands who are confused by the end times. Even more alarming is those who know only what some unqualified preacher has told them. I have just a quick question for you. Please answer with a simple yes or no, as I have no desire to discuss the subject matter. There are five major translations(ideas?) and fifteen minor translations of the end times. Can you provide a side by side study of all of these translations, scripturally of course? When dealing with pentecostals, I often hear "that is not in the Bible." All the above end times translations have scriptural support. | ||
| ezekiel_37 New member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.231.173.111 |
Personally, I try not to categorize the different beliefs, although other do. Preterism- studied and discounted Pre,mid tribulation rapture- studied and discounted Pre millennialism, studied and discounted I am sure there are many differences in theological standpoint. I use an authorized 1611 KJV - Companion bible-bullinger- and a Strong's Concordance, and a Green Interlinear I draw my own conclusions. so, in answer to your question, not all I suppose, as I don't want to be hypocritical. But I have been studying the differences....at many forums. So, I have a working knowledge of different opinions shared by masses of people. in His service c | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. ezekiel_37: I thank you for your honesty. There are actually five possibilities. !. None 2. Continuous 3. Pre 4. Mid 5 Post. When you lay out all the scripture supporting each one you might be surprised. Back in cemetery, we argued for days on wether man is made up of two parts (soul, body) or three parts (body, soul and spirit). That answer will keep you awake all night too. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Junior Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.70.148.60 |
depends, I guess, on whether or not you think that soul and spirit are the same thing. 1-none -atheists, these folks are not wise. 2-continuous -I assume you mean preterism-ish? many holes in preterism. 3-Pre-obsurd. 4-Mid-obsurd. 5-Post-truth. that's the way I see it!!! in His service c | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. Ezekiel_37: Quoting: "depends, I guess, on whether or not you think that soul and spirit are the same thing." End quote. We used scripture to decide. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Junior Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.70.150.115 |
And what did you decide? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. Ezekiel: We found an equal number of scripture that gives body and soul to the number of scripture that gives body, soul and spirit. Either or Neither can be proven with scripture. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Junior Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.70.150.115 |
In 'cemetery' did you decide on which of the five major translations(ideas?) to follow? Do you wish to exand? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. Ezekiel: The short answer? No. I will say your answer is preconceived and not found in scripture. I would challenge you to do as we did. Start a line of scripture that supports each possibility. Then see which has the most scripture support. Flush out your mind and start over. "Flush out" is an awful way to say that, I hope you understand what I meant. Read every text in context without a pretext will take you a long ways toward understanding the Word of God. I did not mean 'flush out' as an insult. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
PS sorry I hit the send button before I answered your next question. I am pre pared. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Junior Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 43 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.70.150.115 |
Hello Sandy, You said, The short answer? No. Are you sure you don''t, not even just a bit? I assume because you follow with, I will say your answer is preconceived and not found in scripture. Ofcourse I would disagree and say the same for yours. Respectfully, but this is a rather leading statement. You obviously have scripture to back up what you believe, as I do. I would challenge you to do as we did. Start a line of scripture that supports each possibility. Then see which has the most scripture support. I couldn't agree more. I have weighed the scriptures, and studied the language, idioms and hebreisms. My conclusion is there is no basis for an early departure, pre-pared or not. All stay to the end. Nor has all been accomplished by 70 AD. I do agree with some points that you make, as in the ealy church may have ended there. But I find no fulfilment. Flush out your mind and start over. "Flush out" is an awful way to say that, I hope you understand what I meant. Absolutely agree that this is needed to find truth. Again, I have been through the process of flushing out the old leaven. You might be suprised what I study!!! I probably know more about Margret's dream than most premils. I would love to discuss it with you. Read every text in context without a pretext will take you a long ways toward understanding the Word of God. Again I agree, but find myself arriving at a different conclusion than you. I am unaware of your specific beliefs but if it is either preterism, or pretrib gathering, then we differ. I did not mean 'flush out' as an insult. I understand completely. No offence taken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PS sorry I hit the send button before I answered your next question. I am pre ..... pared. I figured that you mean PRE-trib, not PREterism, but I'm not sure as you did post your thoughts about the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem For either view, I do not find the Old Test. support that is required and vitally needed. But we are Brothers, and who knows, we may learn from one another. In sincerity, I would ask where you find YOUR scriptural proof for your belief, and if you would expand? in His service c | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Intermediate Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 105 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Mr. Z I generally find my scriptural "proof" in the Bible. But other times, I find it in the Bible. (Laughing of course!) | ||
| anothertraveler New member Username: anothertraveler Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.106.9.237 |
the_apostolic_truth_ministries. You dismissal of the word of God shows that though you read the bible, you have not allowed the Lord to teach you doctrine. Please read... Isaiah 28:9-13 (KJV) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3696 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.13.4 |
to all on here who believe in the pentecosal way.. i too am petecostal and our church does NOT go out and force people into our church. if they come we try to get them saved first , then if they continue to come we teach them about THE HOLY GHOST BAPTISUM. also we receive when we get saved THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST then after we are saved we receive a different dimension i guess you would say or a deeper experiance of THE HOLY GHOST called the baptisum with the evedence of tongues. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1533 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 75.36.166.77 |
Arron, I now call myself a Pentecostal. I am going to www.tcotw.org, The Church on The Way, in Van Nuys, CA. The founding pastor, Jack Hayford is now the President of the Foursquare denomination. The Foursquare denomination is very strong in all foreign countries due to their missionary outreach. 1. Pentecostals believe all the Scriptures, and words of Christ regarding what a person can do through faith and the name of Jesus. We believe in Mark 16. We believe that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is taught as a secondary experience, additional to salvation from John 20, Acts 2, 8, 10, & 19. We believe that the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the prayer language of the Spirit based on those chapters and our personal experience. Though, a Gift of the Holy Spirit would have to be admitted as an evidence. 2. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a secondary, additional experience to regeneration, one which every child of God should know whether they have or not, was believed by the greatest evangelists of the 1800's, Charles Finney, D.L. Moody, and taught very strongly by R.A. Torrey. Your fundamentalists readers should take a look at R.A. Torrey's book. 3. The Charismatic Gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1 Corinthians 12-14 have never left the Church of Jesus Christ. Throughout all Catholic history one can find Gifts of the Holy Spirit taking place, even before the Bishop of Rome was called the pope. One can read about the FAITH HEALER St. Antony written by St. Athanasius in the 300's, or St. Columba etc. etc. The heresy of the cessation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit first began by Scofield in the 1800's. The reason that many Churches do not have the Charimata Gifts of the Holy Spirit functioning is that they no longer have faith to believe the words of Jesus, and the Scriptures of Acts. These Churches that do not have the Charismata Gifts of the Holy Spirit functioning is that they do not believe in the secondary experience for service after salvation, The Baptism with the Holy Spirit. That is also the problem with many Pentecostal churches, by the way, they are seeking the prayer language of the Spirit rather than the giver of the Gifts, Jesus the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3721 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
easeltine... thanks for the words it is so very true | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 762 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). easeltine Quoting: "The reason that many Churches do not have the Charimata Gifts of the Holy Spirit functioning is that they no longer have faith to believe the words of Jesus, and the Scriptures of Acts. These Churches that do not have the Charismata Gifts of the Holy Spirit functioning is that they do not believe in the secondary experience for service after salvation, The Baptism with the Holy Spirit. That is also the problem with many Pentecostal churches, by the way, they are seeking the prayer language of the Spirit rather than the giver of the Gifts, Jesus the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit." End quote. I will give you any amount of money you can name to find that in the Bible. By the by, the founder of your church died of a cocaine overdose. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3723 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
easeltine... tatm is some one who got hurt by someone in the pentecostal church and he takes it out on all pentecostals he says the the founder of pentecostal was a homo sexual and here he says the founder is a drug addict. does he not know that THE FOUNDER OF THE PENTECOSTAL RELIGHION AS HE CALLS IS IS JESUS CHRIST AND THE FOUNDER OF YOUR CHURCH IS JESUS CHRIST. tatm is someone who doesnt go to church doesnt have ay bible knowledge claims to have all sorts of other knowledgs just let him go on his happy way | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 764 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Arron: Thank you for your kind words, but you forgot something. I relied on your religion's history book to prove my claims, sorry. By the by, my offer has gone uncollected for twenty years. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1537 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 75.36.166.77 |
Charles Parham is often mentioned as the founder of the Pentecostal movement. I don't agree, not even with any group in Pentecostalism that says it was. Parham taught William Seymour about the Baptism With the Holy Spirit being a secondary experience. Parham was a teacher in Kansas, Seymour left and was stationed in Los Angeles. There is no indication that I am aware of that Parham actually received the Baptism With the Holy Spirit for himself. I have a newspaper collection, (at home - I am on vacation), of William Seymour's and there is no indication Charles Parham controlled any part of William Seymour's church on Azusa Street or Bonnie Brae. Main groups of Pentecostalism come from the Azusa Street Revival, not related to Charles Parham at all. "Parham was arrested for “sexual indiscretions” with boys, although charges were dropped, some suggest because no one would testify." - So, that makes, for sure, that Charles Parham was a practicing homosexual? Charles Parham was married and had children. You could be right, it doesn't matter to me, though I could make a long list of Pastors, (both Pent. and Fund.), that have problem with sexual relationships. You would think that ministers really have a problem keeping their zippers up? My point is that the Pentecostal Denominations came from the Azusa Street Revival, and it would be more correct to say that William Seymours was the pastor of the church when the Asusa Street Revival started, not even the founder would be correct. Seymour was far from the first member being Baptized With the Holy Spirit in the Azusa Street Revival. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a secondary experience was also experienced at the Welch Revival in 1904, and believed in by Evan Roberts and Rees Howells. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a secondary experience was routinely taught in the 1800's by great men of God such as Charles Finney, Dwight Mooday, and Rueben Torrey. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 766 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). easeltine: Might I recommend you read your religion's own history book? Charles Parham left Kansas rather suddenly after refusing to allow the little boys in his quote, unquote "Bible School" to go home for Christmas until they found faked infantile gibberish. Parham moved to Texas, where he hired a one-eyed black man to be janitor for his new quote, unquote "Bible school." Seymour was Parham's maid, for lack of a better term. Parham was also a racist. Seymour was not allowed to enter any room with a "white" person present. Parham was not arrested for sexual misconduct. Please study history, my dear friend. Sodomy was not against the law in 1906. Prostitution was legal in all states and territories. Orphanages were used to supply labor to farmers, much like illegal immigrants are today. Women did not have the right to vote, etc. Seymour went to California to visit his girlfriend. Seymour was booted from his girlfriend’s Baptist church for preaching damnable heresies. After the Great Earthquake of 1906, the Azusa Street Mission began growing. Seymour invited Parham to come to California believing he had found Parham’s faked infantile gibberish. Shortly after arriving, Seymour booted Parham from pentecostalism’s only pulpit, for sodomy with little boys, again sorry. Please study the history book and not your religion’s crapology. By the by, the owner of the Assembly of God gave me that same book. After reading it, I told Mr. Woods it was false. He send me the second book explaining Parham did not invent pentecostalism. The second book claimed Parham invented oneness movement. Read your religion’s minutes from 1919, Frank Ewart started the ‘oneness movement’. Parham founded “white” pentecostalism, the Assembly of God. Seymour founded “black” pentecostalism, the Church of God in Christ. Blacks were not allowed to hold office in white pentecostalism and whites were not allowed to hold office in black pentecostalism. As to the papers the Assembly of God claims are from Seymour, I ask who wrote them? Seymour was illiterate. Not to mention being blind in one eye, his eyesight caused him to wear a shoebox while preaching. As for William Seymour’s “Apostolic Faith” newspapers, I also have Parham’s “Apostolic Faith” newspapers. I have no idea why your religion does not use Parham’s papers other than he candid claims that pentecostalism’s altar was awash in the occult. Please do not drag these great men (Moody, Torrey, Finney, etc) into the apostasies of your religion. Not a one of them supports your religion’s garbology. Again, I have read and studied their writings. I recommend you do the same. OH! You can find the Origins of your religion under the title "The origins of pentecostal tongues." Your religion's Bible is discussed factually under "Finis Jennings Dake". The oneness movement is also discussed for your review. I quoted your religion's own writings for these articles. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 767 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Arron: Quoting: ". . . tatm is someone who doesnt go to church . . ." Endquote. You are partially right. I do attend one or two of your religion's psychodramas a month, other than that I attend a Christian church for every service. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3726 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
tatm..... what christian church do you attend .. the name of it | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1543 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.113 |
Sandy, The comment that seems to me incorrect that you make is regarding Parham not being arrested. The one phrase that I had in my Post in quotations was the following: "Parham was arrested for “sexual indiscretions” with boys, although charges were dropped, some suggest because no one would testify." - This quote comes directly from a website against Pentecostalism - http://www.seekgod.ca/fatherparham.htm - They quote their source as Ibid. p. 198; also Robert Longman Jr. www.spirithome.com/histpen1.html Also: God’s Generals, other I have heard it expressed as being true from other Pentecostals other than Richard Liardon, (God's Generals), as well. You accuse Parham as being a homosexual. When you use the word homosexual you are giving the impression that you know in fact that Parham was a practicing homosexual. Do you have evidence that Parham was a practicing homosexual or is that just a false accusation against him? If Parham had the one incident of homosexuality in his life can the Lord forgive a person for the sin if they confess their sin and repent. Again, I would like to see evidence by you, or the Assembly of God, or even R.A. Torrey proving to me that Parham was indeed a practicing homosexual, rather than just the one incident. I think all three sources claim Parham was a homosexual without any proof! It's funny...because, in fact, you, The Assembly of God, R.A. Torrey, or myself DO NOT think that Parham was a good Christian. I'm agreeing with most of what you say about Parham. That is the same representation that the Pentecostals say about him. You could also add that Parham became a member of the KKK. He was not a very good Christian. There doesn't seem to be much trash that Fundamentalists can throw at William Seymour? That is sort of interesting. I have the publication from The Assembly of God titled, "Like As Of Fire". It a collection of the newspaper, "The Apostolic Faith", and it lists the dates of publication from September 1906 to May 1908. Parham is not claimed as the founder of the Assembly of God denomination by this publication. The founders of the World Assembly of God are claimed as, Elders E.W. Doak, G.T. Haywood, and D.C. Opperman on January 25, 1919. Out of that they claim the Black Assembly of God began in 1925 with a Garfield Thomas Haywood. Charles Finney, D.L. Moody, and R.A. Torrey all believed in the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a secondary experience after salvation. See R.A. Torrey's book, "What the Bible Teaches," although I have other references as well. They did not believe that the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was speaking in tongues, rather that power for service, and the Charimata Gifts of 1 Cor. 12-14 is the evidence. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 768 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). easeltine Quoting: "There doesn't seem to be much trash that Fundamentalists can throw at William Seymour? That is sort of interesting." End quote. Defensive, are we? I quoted my sources, my dear friend. You might note all are pentecostal, not fundies as you allude to. One small question, if Moody supported your religion's view, why aren't you Baptist? You see there is a dead give-away. Now let us see. The Assembly of God does not claim a child-molesting homosexual KKK grand dragon as its founder? GOLLY!!! Gee, I wonder why? Was it because he was a fundie? Wait, wait, I got it! He had bad breathe!! Right? You failed to address the question of Parham's "Apostolic Faith" newspapers. I have three of those papers in my collection, given to me by a great nephew. Why doesn't your religion publish all of the "Apostolic Faith" newspapers? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 769 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Arron: Have I asked you to name your church? Have I ever asked anyone to name their church? Do you think there might be a reason for that? I have had one car blownup by a pentecostal preacher, do you think I want my church blown all over town? Engage your brain Mr. Arron. That is why God gave you one. Use it. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3728 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
my churcu i .. full salvation church of the living GOD ... there you have it. how do you know your church was blown up by a pentecostal preacher? were they convicted of it? how do you known it ill be blown up all over town. are you speking literly or what ?> is it simply because you do not want any ine to know where you go to church. i am engageing my brain so now engage yor and tell wha is the name of the church you attend | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 770 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Arron: Not only has a pentecostal preacher blown up my car and been convicted, but I have been falsely arrested for trespassing on pentecostal church property. A pentecostal bishop, also, started a pornographic website in my name. | ||
| hardbones Member Username: hardbones Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 70.48.178.50 |
Nonsense!! | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1545 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
Sandy, I still would like you to give more facts on my question to you about people claiming Parham was a "homosexual". What proof is there? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 773 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). easeltine: Thousands of newspaper articles, your religion's own history book, and a great nephew. Parham's own "Apostolic Faith" newspapers are also included. Quoting: "There doesn't seem to be much trash that Fundamentalists can throw at William Seymour? That is sort of interesting." End quote. According to your religion's own history book, Parham was accused by a Baptist preacher hoping to steal his (Parham's) flame. As I have said from the beginning, sodomy was not against the law in 1906. The problem is not Parham's sexuality but your religion's coverup. As to Seymour, read any good newspaper from the era. Seymour, like Parham, was a first class racist. As to the claim, no one would testify, Seymour, as pastor, had the soul/sole responsibility for throwing the bum out. Quoting: "If Parham had the one incident of homosexuality in his life can the Lord forgive a person for the sin if they confess their sin and repent. " End quote. May I laugh? A couple years ago in Florida, a preaher was arrested for mauling an eleven-year-old-girl. Two days after his arrest, the Assembly of God came forward and acknowledged they knew he was a convicted child molestor when they hired him. The report went on to say, "he made a lot of money for us." Can I go on? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 774 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). hardbones I can assure you nothing Mr. Arron has to say is non-sense. Mr. Arron is simply a bobble-head for his religion. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1548 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.4 |
Sandy, When you say, "your own religion's history book", what are you refering to? The Bible? You are a strange one. I feel much hatred from you, and I'm not talking just about Pentecostalism as ideas. I feel that you are in bondage of hate towards particular people, with the only solution being forgiveness. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3729 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
at least im not ashamed of the name of my church nor that i am pentecostal and i do tell the truth | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 779 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). easeltine: Quoting: "When you say, "your own religion's history book", what are you refering to? The Bible? " End quote. hehehehehehehehhehahahahahahahahhehehehehehe | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3733 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
easeltine... i had rather take what the bible says than what some man says and that is all tatm is doing becuse he hates pentecost , pentecostals, any thing to do with the gifts OF THE SPIRIT. what does that tell you about a person of that sort... one thing they are not saved .. try to get them to admit that they a saved, that they believe the word of GOD and that they believe in the other gifts, such as healing, casting out demons, blessing little children anointing a minister with oil when he / she is ordained, ash him what church he attend to name it by name that is simple enough dont you think also ask him whay he is so down on pentecostals and not .. baptist, methodist, oneness, catholic, jim jones , daddy grace, father divine ask why he says without any proff that pentecostals are homosexuals maybe not all of them but some of them why doesnt he speak against aimie semple mcphearson, katherine kullman. ... no he attacks any that says they are pentcostal and speak in tongues. that is why he is always saying something to me when he will speak to me because i SPEAK with tongues. he , i tell you has been hurt or offended by some fantical pentecostal and is still taking it out on the ones who live right. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3734 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
easeltine .. and oh yes tell him you had rather take what the bible says and that yu dont laugha nd make fun of the word of GOD | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3735 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
and before he deletes or changes it he was heheheheing in post 779 and he added a fewmore hehes than i did when i was "quoteing " what he said | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1570 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.48 |
Arron, I am reading his posts and he is making false accusations. He makes statements without any proof. He is calling Parham the founder of Pentecostalism, and it isn't the truth when one evaluates the historical record. He is calling Parham a homosexual, and it isn't truth when one evaluates the historical record. He is saying William Seymour was a racist, and it isn't true when one evaluates the historical record. I am looking at a black and white picture right now of of William Seymour's committee that examined candidate for licenses as missionaries and evangelists. There are 4 white men, 4 white women, 2 black women, and the only black man is William Seymour himself. All lies. It also sounds like on one of his posts that he puts Oneness in the same category as The Watchtower Society, or JW's. The opposite is the case, that's looney if I understand him correctly. We know what Oneness believes and JW's don't believe Jesus is God. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1575 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.254 |
Arron, To Rev. Sandy's comment, "If you are in a UPCI church, your 60 questions on the Godhead doctrine was written by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses, Bible Students, etc.)." I wish Jason were here to give him a piece of his mind. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1576 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.196 |
Even his idea that there was no sodomy laws in California in the early 1900's shows that he has neglected to investigate and substantiate his facts. His facts are thrown out there with no substance. http://www.sodomylaws.org/sensibilities/california.htm | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 798 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). Easeltine: I wouldn't put much faith in a gay website. Especially one that freely admits the law cited was invalid. Tho I don't recommend Wikipedia, it clearly shows who the liar is. I recommend you look outside your religion for the truth. Unfortunately, you like Mr. Arron, are afraid of the truth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Seymour | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 802 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Charles Fox Parham (1873-1929) is often referred to as the "Father of Modern Day Pentecostalism." Rising from a nineteenth century frontier background, he emerged as the early leader of a major religious revivalist movement. He emphasized the role of the Holy Spirit and the restoration of apostolic faith. With his evangelistic zeal, he also advanced the concept of "speaking in tongues." Though his influence in the movement diminished later in life, his enormous impact on the development of Pentecostal faith was widely recognized. http://www.answers.com/topic/charles-fox-parham The Parham's returned to Texas in the summer that year, and in Houston and a number of other cities the revival continued to grow. The experience of tongues was received by scores of people, and the healings and other amazing experiences continued to occur. In December he established a Bible school in Houston, similar to the Topeka college, and it was from here that Pentecostalism reached Los Angeles and really began to mushroom. · was the Father of the Pentecostal movement, yet supported the foundation of the Ku Klux Klan. · had so many childhood diseases that his growth was stunted. · was the first to preach a message solely on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. http://www.windandfire.org/2005/Main/Spiritual%20Leaders/Spiritual-Leader-BIO-Parham.htm Abingdon Dictionary of Living Religion states the “Pentecostal movement began in the United States in 1901 in Topeka Kansas, under the leadership of C.F. Parham.” 1 Charles Fox Parham originally came from a Methodist and Holiness background, which affiliation he later rejected in favor of his "Full Gospel.” Sarah, who became his wife in 1891, was along with her parents, a "birthright Quaker.” 2 Although some adherents referred to him as a latter-day Elijah, Parham viewed himself as the "projector" of the Apostolic Faith, also called Pentecostal or Latter Rain movement, though he opposed officially organizing the group. 3 http://www.seekgod.ca/fatherparham.htm In 1905, Seymour was in Houston, Texas where he heard the Pentecostal message for the first time. He attended a Bible school conducted by Charles F. Parham. Parham was the founder of the Apostolic Faith Movement, and is the father of the modern Pentecostal/Charismatic revival. At a Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, his followers had received a baptism in the Holy Spirit with the biblical evidence of speaking in tongues. http://www.azusastreet.org/WilliamJSeymour.htm | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 803 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Quoting: "I wish Jason were here to give him a piece of his mind." End quote. Me too!!!! I love asking the fruities who is the father of Jesus Christ!! | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1581 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.87 |
On that we agree! | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 813 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
I, sir, posted fact and am able to back it up. You post nothing more than ostom bits of spatulated ganoey with nothing but lip to back it up. Anyone reading is welcome to view the facts and decide for themselves. My case is well proven by your own religion. Your time would be better spend reading the Word of God and not your religion's crapology. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 814 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
For the deceived who might be reading, you will not and can not find a single court document where Charles Fox Parham was charged or investigated criminally or civilly for sodomy. Charles Fox Parham was not charged, nor accused criminally or civilly of sodmy in Texas or California, nor in Kansas. Charles Fox Parham, by self-admission, was booted from pentecostalism only pulpit by William Seymour for sodomy with little boys. It was a sacred, not secular movement on Seymour's part. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3744 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
tatm .. agin you have been proven to be a liar... you have said many time that pentecostalism was started by a homosexual ( which it was not it was started by JESUS CHRIST ) NOW HERE YOU ARE SAYING THAT HE WAS NEVER CONVICTED. IT WAS SEYMORE WHO ACCUSED HIM ... WHY THE SUDDEN CHANGE? | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1583 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.237 |
Arron, From his first source listed above it says the following point about Parham: "Also, in 1907 Parham encountered some legal difficulties that did terrible harm to his reputation. He was arrested in Texas for alleged sexual misconduct involving young boys. However, charges were dropped as no one came forward to testify. Today, it is generally regarded that the charges were without merit and most likely resulted from a conspiratorial campaign to discredit him initiated by anti-Pentecostal religious leaders. Nevertheless, the accusation was enough to do substantial damage, and he subsequently lost much of his credibility with the neo-Pentecostal movement." Looks like a good, independent site. Certainly, there is no proof to throw the accusation, "homosexual", at Parham, even if he did sin in that one instance, which is questionable. Why not read the entire site before making a statement that is different than the site one points out? http://www.answers.com/topic/charles-fox-parham The other two sites are so BIASED against Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement that you can just feel them slant things to CRAP making their position seem correct. Eventhough, the third Anti Pentecostal site from Satan that trys to, Steal, Kill, and Destroy people's faith in the supernatural power of the LORD Jesus Christ, even those Penecostal Haters, Pharisee Lovin', Heresy Hunters, agree with the point above: "Parham was arrested for “sexual indiscretions” with boys, although charges were dropped, some suggest because no one would testify. 15" Oh, but don't read the Scriptures I put out there by R.A. Torrey about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being a secondary experience, one may get the idea that the Scriptures teach it, that men, (such as Finney, Moody, and Torrey), before the Pentecostal Movement believed it, and therefore validates Pentecostalism. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1584 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.237 |
Ok, let's look at the Wikipedia Website about William Seymour: * an initiator of the Pentecostal religious movement. ** Below is a difference from the Anti-Pentecostal Sites above: * As a grown man he became a student at at a newly formed bible school founded by Charles Parham in Houston, TX in 1905. * The result was the Azusa Street Revival. Seymour not only rejected the existing racial barriers in favor of "unity in Christ", he also rejected the then almost-universal barriers to women in any form of church leadership. - ** Hence, all the women, white men, and black women in the Credentials Committee I point out, (he being the only black man). * Most of the current charismatic groups can claim some lineage linking them to the Azusa Street Revival and William Seymour. ** Not Parham! * While there had been similar manifestations in the past (the Cane Ridge, Kentucky revival a century before in the Second Great Awakening - ** Historically, you have alway had these manifestations throughout Church History. * the current worldwide Pentecostal and charismatic movements are generally agreed to have been in part outgrowths of Seymour's ministry and the Azusa Street Revival. ** Again, Seymour, not Parham. * A play commemorating him and the revival, Miracle on Azusa Street, is sometimes produced by Pentecostal churches both to teach their own members about their religious origins and as an outreach to those outside. It's a good play. It is not as Pro-Seymour, Pro-Pentecostal, or Pro-Barham as you may think. It presents the bad aspects of the situation along with the good aspects. Maybe, slanted towards First Church of God in Christ a bit. The Anti-Pentecostal sites are crazy to me when they start throwing out the following things to discredit Seymour. Like, these things are sins or something. * Was blind in one eye - This is some sort of statement to say that Seymour believed in faith healing but he never received healing for his eye. Ever read about the Apostle Paul's eye problem people? This is one of the more stupid ideas in Fundamentalism that there is! * That he was illiterate. Seymour was not illiterate! There is no proof to this statement, in fact The Apostolic Faith newspaper that is a long newspaper shows that he was not illiterate. * That he was predjudice. Don't even go there! There is nothing to indicate this, rather the reverse is the truth. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 817 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. easeltine: Denial does not help your cause. I do not recommend Wikipedia to anyone for one simple reason. Wikipedia is a write-your-encyclopedia. Should you remove your head from the sandbox, you will discover your own religion (the Assembly of God) made up with black pentecostalism in 1997. Your religion is simply riding Seymour's flame to justify its lunacies. As to Seymour's "Apostolic Faith" newspapers, why doesn't your religion publish the as "Apostolic Faith" newspapers of Parham? I am sorry you had to find out the truth from someone other than your religion. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 818 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Arron: Would you please put your fingers in your ears when you read my post. I am the one who from the beginning said Parham was booted from Seymour's pulpit for sodomy with little boys. The Assembly of God claims it was a false criminal charge made in Texas by a disgruntled Baptist preacher. Mr. Easeltine made-believe the criminal charge was made in California. There never was and never will be a criminal or civil charge of sodomy leveled against Parham. It was a sacred charge entered by William Seymour. Again, as stated previously, it is not a question of sexuality, but one of cover-up!! Why doesn't your religion simply face the facts? Admit it is founded on the false 'vision' of a homosexual booted from their only pulpit by their only preacher. Jesus Christ had/has nothing at all to do with pentecostalism. Think for a moment, would Jesus cover-up for a homosexual preacher? Your religion was invented in 1906 following the great earthquake in California, not Jerusalem. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3746 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.156 |
and why dont you tell where and what the name of the church ( if any ) is that you attend and why you dont go after the other denomanations but just after the pentcostals for all i know there may be those in the belief that you have that were started by a queer or a homosexual but that doesnt mean that all of them are homos. JESUS CHRIST COVERED ALL OUR SINS even your with HIS BLOOD JESUS was THE ONE WHO SENT THE HOLY GHOST SO HE STARTED THE PENTCOSTAL MOVEMENT yours how ever i dont know who started it for i dont think you got to one and that is why you want say so | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1586 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.201 |
"Should you remove your head from the sandbox, you will discover your own religion (the Assembly of God)" I have never been a Member of the Assembly of God. Worldwide, The International Church of The Foursquare Gospel, (www.tcotw.org), probably has more members than The Assembly of God. I currently go to The Church on The Way in Van Nuys, CA. "As to Seymour's "Apostolic Faith" newspapers, why doesn't your religion publish the as "Apostolic Faith" newspapers of Parham?" Due to the reason that Parham was the leader to The Apostolic Faith movement in Kansas, Parham was never a leader of the Azusa Street Revival. The Pentecostal denominations say that their source is Azusa Street, not Parham's Revival Meetings. "The Assembly of God claims it was a false criminal charge made in Texas by a disgruntled Baptist preacher." Again, please read what I posted above from the last poster's own website used as his source. The actual criminal charge was in Texas. I was showing above a website to answer the false statement that their were no laws against sodomy in 1906. Incidentally, prostitution was illegal in Utah in 1906, it was one of the agreements for Statehood made by Utah in the 1860's. Again, show better evidence that Parham, (who was married and had children), was a practicing homosexual. By the way, it is brought up about Parham in the Pentecostal play that I talked about above. They don't accuse him of being a homosexual, rather the criminal charges that were brought against Parham. I think I remember that they do mention that these accusations troubled Seymour. | ||
| holy_ghost_in_power New member Username: holy_ghost_in_power Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.37.5.135 |
"9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER OF OUR BRETHREN is cast down, which ACCUSED THEM before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Rev. 22:9-11 "14 Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" Luke 23:14 "13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:13,14 "16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." 1 Peter 3:16,17 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." Exodus 20:16 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:" 2 Corinthians 12:20 Remember, Brothers, we need to love one another! | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3968 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
yes we need to love one another and show that love we also need to defend the faith that was ONCE delived to the saints. i stand firm in my convictions of the pentecostal faith. i love all people and if the are saved i can worship with them but if they are not saved then no i cant haave fellowship with them i can love them but i cant fellowship with them unless they believe in JESUS for we are two different people |
