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Message |
    
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 595
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 1:17 pm: | 
|
Hi Everybody,
You might remember me. Anyway, wouldn't this be great if God used this oppurtunity to use this thread to do exactly what the founders of this thread intended? To expose Greater Grace World outreach as the cult that it has turned out to be. All information concerning this place of mind control and corruption should be posted here. Thank you for any and all info you can give us on this place which has literally destroyed thousands of lives. Gone To PA
Thank you Lord for this fresh start, I hope! |
arron (arron)
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.204.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
|
well good to see you back gone to pa. |
bob_brinton (bob_brinton)
Senior Member
Username: bob_brinton
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.123.122.187
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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I find it interesting that the Religious Cults and Sects section is said to have 216388 posts in it. That is not what seems currently available. I tried doing a search for an old thread I started and couldn't reach it. Which is okay. I just find it interesting.
My email is bob.brinton@verizon.net |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 573
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 7:02 pm: |
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I think some massive malfunction happened to FACTNET during the afternoon. All those 70000+ posts on Greater Grace World Outreach are out there somewhere. I suspect the software for creating new threads might be affected. GHOST, please, we have a problem. All these GGWO threads need to be reunited like before. Thanks and God bless
SIDETHORN |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 596
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 8:43 pm: |
|
THANKS AARON,
MAYBE THE OLD THREADS WILL COME BACK AND MAYBE NOT, BUT I LIKE WHAT IT SAYS UNDER THE WORDS DISCUSSION BOARD. " TELL US YOUR STORY" ANYONE WANT TO BE FIRST? IN HIS LOVE GONE TO PA |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 597
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 8:50 pm: |
|
SIDETHORN,
SEEING THAT YOU ARE AN ADVANCED MEMBER, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH THE CULT KNOWN AS GGWO/TBS.IF THIS IS A FRESH START MANY COULD LEARN FROM MISTAKES MADE IN THE PAST. LET'S EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE. AND WHEN OTHERS CAN SECOND A STORY TOLD HERE AND THIRD IT, I MUST BELIEVE THAT MANY WILL TAKE IT AS TRUTH. WE ALL KNOW WE HAVE POSTED OVER 70K THREADS CONCERNING THIS. WASN'T THE PROBLEM WITH FN SPACE. MAYBE THIS IS A WAY FOR FN TO KEEP GOING. THERE ARE SOME SENIOR MEMBERS THAT POST HERE ALSO WHO COULD REALLY SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS CULT. PEACE, IN JESUS GONE TO PA |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 459
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:16 am: |
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Here's an interesting link concerning that guy Z who posts:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17555.html?1138818764 |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 460
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:20 am: |
|
And, if it works, here's a link to the old "comments please" thread.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17103.html?1138678421#MB |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 461
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:26 am: |
|
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/12338.html?1138662657
That's Hodi's "Recent GGWO Services Thread" |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 463
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:43 am: |
|
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17515.html
Landover Baptist Church |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 464
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:44 am: |
|
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17530.html?1138790502#MB
Led by the Spirit |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 465
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:45 am: |
|
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17361.html?1138734079#MB
Exploding Diaper |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 466
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:49 am: |
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Your computer's history should have links to other threads, should you want to post them here. But it could be a real pain trying to keep up with them. |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 577
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:57 am: |
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Some experiences at GGWO:
During the 1990's I was introduced to GGWO by a close friend who described it as an on fire evangelical family of churches. On the surface, GGWO had all the marks of a grace oriented ministry with a zeal for spreading the Gospel. I heard messages about salvation by faith plus nothing(works) and eternal security of the believer. Teachings about a pretribulation Rapture for all believers and coming judgement were also prevelant and consistant with teachings of many other ministries I'd encountered for 15 years. I attended a branch church and occasionally visited GGWO Baltimore. I did know Carl Stevens and John Love personally for years who seemed okay at first. Slowly that all started to change.
One of my first warning signs was at a restaurant where Carl Stevens preached a little sermon after a soulwinning blitz. As Carl spoke, many of the people sat there in a strange trance like I had never seen at any other church or fellowship group. I was wondering why people were focusing so intently on a man. My answers would come later when I found that Carl Stevens was actually a cult leader that used people for his own purposes after brainwashing them.
After joining my affiliate GGWO church, I fellowshiped with a man that would become the local youth leader. After talking with him about many experiences including ones where I ministered to kids in other churches, he asked me to help out in his youth group. I gladly oblidged and became a driver and helper there. In the coming months, I formed friendships with many of the kids and some of the parents as a mentor and big brother. God wanted me to be there for the kids where they felt comfortable enough to discuss anything without fear of judgement or condemnation. My supporting them was appreciated by the youth leader at first, but after a few short years, that would end.
More to follow later:
SIDETHORN |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 579
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 8:25 am: |
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After helping in youth ministry for a while, the false teachings of Greater Grace World Outreach began to surface. The first one was legalistic teaching of mandatory Sunday service attendance. After spending a Sunday with a friend on my own time riding some roller coasters instead of attending my affiliate church, my local pastor became furious with me and treated me with contempt ever since. The following Sunday, he asked me where I was so I told him about the great time I had on all the coasters and other rides. He then blurted "How dare you go ... when the Word is being preached" and then stormed away in a childish fury. Ever since he ignored me and alienated me. He still put up with me in the youth ministry for a while since they had trouble getting enough drivers to drive kids to youth functions. Many more false teachings would then come out.
Another false teaching was the presumed infallabilty of Carl Stevens and those pastors close to him. People dared not disagree with Carl or any pastor/teacher because their every word was presumed to be a word from God Himself. Disagree with the pastor and your sinning against God. Agree with the pastor, then you're a faithful follower of Christ.
What really was cultic about GGWO was the forbidding of the people to think for themselves and take their personal decisions directly to God for guidance. Everything had to go through the pastor/teacher or Carl himself. Only Carl and the pastors were presumed to have enough enlightenment to think at all. Others who thought for themselves were condemned as being evil, divisive and rebellious against God. They would immediately be condemned, shunned, alienated, and ultimately slandered to turn as many others as possible against them. Thats the GGWO marking treatment that I'll hit on later.
Another false teaching was called "no touch love". People we're presumed to be so undisciplined and out of control to keep one little hand hold or hug from becoming full blown sex. Therefore GGWO forbade unmarried people from touching each other in any way until formally married. Of course Scriptures were grossly twisted to support this extreme viewpoint.
More to come
SIDETHORN |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2164
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.143.82.152
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:09 am: |
|
www.discussggwo.org
www.carlstevens.org
} |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 186
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:37 am: |
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Sounds like this pastor has unresolved shame issues.,
hence he projects shame onto others. |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 581
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:25 am: |
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Right on!! He does and he shames anyone who won't kiss up to him as he tries to control the people around him. He's a power hungry egomaniac like Carl Stevens. |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 582
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
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More on the false teachings:
Another false teaching includes delegated authority to the pastor/teacher. This is an extreme twist of Scripture that gives one's GGWO pastor/teacher absolute authority over every area of one's life no matter how personal it might be. People are expected to consult their pastor before making major personal decisions and even smaller ones. Only getting pastoral approval, is one allowed to carry out that decision. One can only imagine what a paradise GGWO is to any control freaks out there. All they have to do be willing to do is submit completely to Carl Stevens and his teachings go to MBCS (GGWO's Bible college) and become a GGWO pastor. Then Carl shares some of his power with them and gives them their own flock of people to control. Too many pastor of GGWO affiliate churches came into power this way. Like having little cult kingdoms within a bigger cult kingdom so long as they are all 1000% committed to Carl Stevens.
Another false teaching is called the "geographical will of God". This is a presumption that God wants a person to have a single GGWO pastor/teacher for life. Unless you're called to some other GGWO ministry like overseas, you're presumed to wanted by God to stay with your present GGWO pastor. What if God has other plans in mind for people??? HMMMM.
More coming:
(Message edited by sidethorn on February 02, 2006) |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 583
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
|
Your GGWO pastor is also presumed to be the one who will present you to Jesus Christ Himself during the believer's judgement day prophesied in the Bible. So you better be real good and submissive to the man who will present you to Christ. This is hogwash!!! In the Bible, Jesus presents us believers as spotless to the Father and believers are judged for degrees of rewards for how they lived for Christ in this life.
GGWO was also legalistic about tithing too. If you didn't pay up, you get shunned. This applied to kids to. All kids were expected to give at least 10 percent of their allowances to the church. Whatever happened to cheerful giving?? Here it was done under compulsion.
Another false teaching condemned all rock music ever made as evil even if it has Christian lyrics. Christian rock groups were condemned at GGWO regularly. Of course during long car rides to and from GGWO teen group functions, rock music was forbidden to be played in the cars. GGWO would rather the kids discuss Carl's teachings and how "great" they were. That created its own set of problems.
More coming: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 584
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
|
Thats just a piece of the pie when it comes to the false teachings at GGWO!!! The abuse and manipulation of people was even worse.
As the pastors at GGWO were considered perfect and infallible, they were never to be questioned. People were actually expected to give their complete trust and loyalty to their GGWO pastor/teacher. He was to be immediately obeyed in everything without any thinking over of anything. Blind obedience and trust was what these pastors wanted. They also wanted people's worship. Many FACTNET posts describe the disgusting worship of Carl Stevens with the long standing ovations and excessive cheering. Other pastors were worshipped too, particularly John Love who ran the GGWO youth program. I saw firsthand how many kids cheered Pastor Love at the Spring Rallies in PA. as he was about to speak. They cheered him like he was bigger than Michael Jordan at a basketball game. It was most unnatural and scary. I could see what he was doing. Pastor Love was training kids to worship GGWO pastors and to give them blind loyalty and obedience. Then as they grow up, they worship other GGWO pastors. It was also brainwashing!!!!! People were being programmed by repitition and tight information control to believe everything the pastors said and to surrender all loyalty and thought to them. Peoples' love for God was turned against them to control them.
More coming later: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 585
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
|
Within GGWO, many very exclusive cliques existed built around the worship and submission to Carl Stevens. The more one submitted to Carl and gave to him (money, time, servitude etc) the closer to Carl in terms of which clique one gets admitted to. This happens a lot in the youth ministry too. The kid's position is often determined by how much their parents give to Carl snd submit to him. Of course the kid's own submission and willingness to worship pastors makes a big difference too. One's social status is determined by which clique one is part of. Of course if no clique accepts a person, they're a nobody that gets thrown away like trash. Nobody wants them or acknowledges them. They either 'don't exist' or get marked by the church with slanderous lies.
More later: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 586
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 1:33 pm: |
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As GGWO seeks tight control of its own, people are often asked to help the pastors maintain control or provide favors. That could mean spying on a close friend or loved one to see if they obey the pastors rules and wishes. Other's tithed hugh amounts of income to gain additional favor or closeness to pastors or even Carl Stevens himself. Others worked long hours for little wages if anything at all. In a nutshell, Carl Stevens and his henchmen did not come to serve the people, they expected the people to serve them.
I've personally witnessed the brainwashing of a number of people into the Carl Stevens teaching and lifestyle. This was particularly true of those attending the Maryland Bible College and Seminary at GGWO Baltimore. People became docile little robots that considered thinking for oneself as rebellion against God. They blindly trusted and obeyed their pastor/teachers and served their every whim. Anything else was considered a sin. These poor people started spewing GGWO doctrine without really thinking about what they were saying. Their interests would change along with their identities. It was such a sad sight to see.
As far as Maryland Bible College and Seminary goes, if you were a member of GGWO Baltimore, you were expected to attend classes there. A lot of high pressure persuasive tactics were applied to the people to get them to enroll. They even tried it on me a bit, but got nowhere!! Those who didn't attend of course were considered as lesser human beings not completely committed to Christ. Then the rejection, alienation and sometimes the slanderous marking would take place.
More later: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 587
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
|
When a person refuses to fall in line with all the Carl Stevens teaching or completely dedicate themselves to promoting the program of Carl Stevens (instead of God's program), they can get the marking treatment. If they ever speak up about false teaching within Greater Grace or any other mistreatment of people, they will get marked. GGWO considers anyone not fully submitted to them as evil and "off". They are considered divisive even when they are not. GGWO leaders in their hypocrisy when they mark someone will attempt to divide everyone they can against the one they mark. Personal and potentially embarrasing information shared in confidence can be publicly disclosed to turn others against the person they mark. Even outright lies are used sometimes in these cases. Point is many friendships, marriages, and bonds between loved ones have been wrecked because of GGWO's divisive marking of those they don't like. Of course Scripture is twisted to justify this. All this done by a "church" that names the Name of Christ. The word cult is far more accurate. How this group divides people over loyalty to its leaders and their man made programs and teachings is sickening.
My general story is coming up soon.
SIDETHORN |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 598
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:57 pm: |
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Wow Sidethorn,
After all that, and now the Lord has you here to let everyone know how easy it is to be deceived. The part that struck me was that this church GGWO had all the ear markings of a regular Evangelical Church of our times. But as soon as you start to dig a little deeper, a wolf in sheeps clothing. Thank you for sharing. I wonder how many others have like stories. I will share mine at a later date. Please folks, this is your chance to agree as in two or three witnesses with what Sidethorn has said. Can anyone say they have had a similiar experience? thanks again Sidethorn. Your friend Gone to PA.
Also just in case your new here, Dave Munson has posted two very good sights that will really give you an up to date look at what is going on presently and what has happened in the past. Thank you David and Cordell! your brother Gone to PA
(Message edited by Gone to PA on February 02, 2006) |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2165
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.140.246.177
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:32 pm: |
|
For those interested in what actually took place to try to bring correction in the doctrinal errors and spiritual abuse issues,
www.discussggwo.org
has a good informational link under "archives."
On page two you can see the "Sandy Cove" documents that discuss in detail the issues at hand that remain uncorrected to this day.
} |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 588
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:21 pm: |
|
The rest of my story:
As more and more false teaching was uncovered and the GGWO pastors sought more and more control over the people, I could see and end coming to my GGWO days. I had to tell the kids I befriended the truth which they asked me for instead of preach the false teaching that my branch pastor and youth leader insisted I preach to everyone. At the same time, I decided for the kid's sakes on the car rides and especially the long ones to allow rock music in my own car. That worked fine until the youth leader and others started to brainwash the same friend that introduced me to GGWO in the first place. That friend of mine was confused about rock music due to GGWO's undue influence over him. Then they had him spy on me and the kids in my car. This guy ratted me out over the rock music to the youth leader and I was immediately suspended. After a conference and GGWO trying to force a gag order on me to never tell anyone anything contrary to Carl Stevens teaching, I resigned for a while in protest. Then the kids begged me to come back so I talked my way back in after a few months. Things went okay for a while until the pastor there became even more controlling than before. The youth leader also became more controlling too as he constantly kissed up to this pastor.
Next post: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 589
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
|
Since I never did agree with Carl Stevens and all the false teaching there, I soon became a marked man. The pastor knew I didn't agree with Carl and would never practice his false teachings in my personal life. He became more and more resentful of this by the day.
Since this pastor was such a tyrant trying to cram all the Carl Stevens crap down the kids' throats and alienated quite a few, many kids kept their distance from him. Since I always tried to give the kids moral support, encouragement, love, attention, understanding and the truth instead, the kids would hang with me instead of the pastor. As the youth leader became more like the pastor, the kids avoided him more and more too. Unfortunately this pastor became very jealous over all this and concocted a false report that I was some kind of pervert only there to make friends with wrong motives and would teach falsehood to them. He talked the youth leader into joining him in slandering me all over the church and in the local community with this falsehood. This jealous pastor also had the youth leader fire me over the phone and permenantly banned me from the group. All this for standing up for the truth and being there for young people in their time of need.
This is classic GGWO marking treatment that has happened to hundreds of others over the years. If the GGWO pastor doesn't like you, he tries to turn everyone he can against you with slanderous lies and gossip. All this from a 'church' that claims to be the best and the pinnacle of truth in modern times.
More: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 590
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
|
Since being tossed from GGWO, I still minister to some of the kids to this day. Fortunately God was able to use me to rescue them from the GGWO cult before more damage was done. Some kids have emotional scars from all the alienation, rejection, and condemnation at Greater Grace. May God heal them!!
In conclusion, GGWO is a very deceptive cult cleverly disguised as a born again evangelical church that preaches 'grace'. Sadly the leaders actions don't line up with their words. Hypocrisy, dirty politics, power games, double standards, very conditional 'love' and devastating rejection of people who don't fit in is the norm at GGWO. Many people are decieved and brainwashed there. They think leaving the church and thinking for themselves is leaving God's will and sinful. What a horrible way to entrap people in a place where they can be exploited for the leaders. People have been taken advantage of and manipulated to serve the leaders' whims instead of God's purposes for way too long. Greater Grace must be exposed. Peoples' lives and reputations depend on it. Please share your stories here so more can be set free and live that abundant life Christ has for them.
SIDETHORN |
lmao (lmao)
Intermediate Member
Username: lmao
Post Number: 229
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:18 pm: |
|
One of the most important lessons I learned from the GG experience is that all leaders are sinners and need accountability in their churches.
While GG could have been a healthy church had the leader not used certain doctrines to grant himself a provision for his flesh, God was faithful to His Word it seems since the CHS' sin has found him out and he is apparently reaping what he has sown. CHS always taught that only God holds leaders accountable. The "only" part is wrong, but God has apparently held him accountable.
I also take what I have seen as a personal warning to not use grace or some other doctrine as a license to sin. |
fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)
Intermediate Member
Username: fooled_no_more
Post Number: 102
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 66.112.85.173
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:46 pm: |
|
sidethorn...
While you and I have never met and I have no experience with GGWO, I just wanted to say I am so very thankful to our Father in Heaven, for the gift of discernment that you have obviously been blessed with.
It has been both a blessing and a lesson to read of your personal account, and while it was a different cult experience for me, reading your account has helped me to see in my own situation, where I must remain vigilant.
Thank you for standing up for Truth.
God bless. |
misil (misil)
Intermediate Member
Username: misil
Post Number: 178
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 68.33.115.244
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 8:28 pm: |
|
i would like to know if anyone knows where liquid waves blog went? by the way hello gone to pa and everyone else.i just got one thing to say. reformed theology is a great relief! |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 599
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:07 pm: |
|
Hi Misil,
I'm sure L.W's will turn up somewhere, somehow. Good to see your still alive and well my brother. This new slate stuff is kinda cool. Kinda reminds me of how the Lord treats me every morning." His mercies are new every morning" Talk about grace. Where would any of us be if the slate hadn't been wiped clean. " Oh precious is the flow, that makes me white as snow; no other fout I know, nothing but the blood of Jesus" Sidethorn, isn't it wonderful how a fresh perspective on the Old Cult Life" we used to live is even now still blessing others such as fooled no more. What a God we serve! Gone to PA in Christ love. |
whatsup (whatsup)
Intermediate Member
Username: whatsup
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 66.30.126.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:23 pm: |
|
I would like to say something to Jeannie about her story of her sister's family and her young niece who had a relationship with Jesus despite her atheist parents and upbringing. I found this story very inspiring and intriguing, and a miracle in its own right. I shared it with my daughter who is struggling with her faith at this time due to some very hurtful circumstances in her life. Thank you, Jeannie, for sharing that. And to the bozo who scoffed at it and said "so what, kids talk to santa claus too"...may you one day develop brain cells....it is not the same thing at all. Very young children talk to santa at the mall or write letters to him to get toys, after hearing about him constantly. But for a girl of eleven to have a personal relationship with a God who she was never taught of, and even told he was a myth, is quite incredible. For any miracle God does, there are always cynics who try to rationalize it away, even for the resurrection. Yet it is so refreshing to see how God confounds the "wise" and pierces right through human logic and cynicism to consistently reveal himself to his own. |
rjfernalld (rjfernalld)
Senior Member
Username: rjfernalld
Post Number: 1583
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.161.147.193
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 3:27 am: |
|
So....now we are left with discussGGWO.org?
all the info the kids needed is gone...feels like a punishment the kids are saying...I don't blame them
discussGGWO is too...sterile for them...and me too I guess.
cordell, will you be posting there?
I miss the old GGWO posts on FN...I liked the discussions.,...I'll miss them and all of you if discussGGWO is all there is
damn |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 591
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 7:01 am: |
|
Thanks for your support everyone!! Going through all that stuff wasn't easy. But, its best to just try to make something good out of it now like in exposing this GGWO cult.
We need to get more of these threads back up or at least get put up some links to them. The threads concerning kids really need to be put up right away. A lot of useful information needs to be readily accessable once again. If I can figure out how to put up some links, I'll stick some up myself. Let the exposure of GGWO continue on.
SIDETHORN |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2169
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.150.219.73
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 9:05 am: |
|
The following checklist of cultic tendencies by Charles Lesser was published in the October, 1991 Spiritual Counterfeits Project Newsletter. They are typical of a number of aberrational cultic groups and churches on the scene today.
Is your pastor fully accountable to a board of elders, presbyters, etc?
Is loyalty to Jesus and to one's own calling placed before loyalty to pastor and church?
Does your pastor encourage questions and suggestions? Is he approachable?
Does your pastor give equal attention to all kinds of people in his congregation?
Does your pastor readily admit his errors?
Does your pastor avoid boasting or hinting at a "special anointing"?
Is your pastor truly humble?
Are the sermons based on clear Biblical truths, not on "original revelations" or ax-grinding?
Does your church interact with other churches?
Does your church staff avoid secrecy?
Is power shared in your church (rather than preempted by a hierarchy)?
( continued )} |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2170
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.150.219.73
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 9:06 am: |
|
Part 2,
Does your church see itself as just one organ of the Body of Christ, and not the main one?
Is your church truly friendly?
Does your church emphasize ministry to people rather than church programs?
Are especially needy people cared for lovingly in your church?
Are church members encouraged and loved even when they leave?
Are relationships with former members encouraged or allowed?
Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking and using as object lessons, former members or those who disagree?
Are families encouraged to stay together and spend time together?
Does your family worship Sunday service include children, at least for part of the service?
Are you encouraged in your own calling?
Are pleas for money rare and unemotional?
Are your children happy to attend church?
Are you happy to bring unsaved friends to your church?
Is there a diversity of classes, races, dress styles, ages, and occupations in your church?
Are people encouraged to hear from God for themselves?
Is there a single behavior standard for all people in the church?
Are all types of people considered welcome at your church?
Is the joy of the Lord present in your church?
Are you free from fear in your church?
Do you think more about God and Jesus than you do about your pastor and church?
Does your pastor include himself in any calls for repentance and forgiveness?
Are you clear that the pastors and elders never exaggerate or lie to make themselves look good?
Is your group encouraging of each other and free from gossip and rumoring?
Is there a humility of doctrine that points to the grace of God and His mercy for sinners?
Are you encouraged to serve in ministries or missions outside the local body?
Is there ever any pressure put upon members to give or lend money to leaders for their personal or business use (exclusive of church business or projects)?
} |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 592
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 1:26 pm: |
|
Thanks for putting up this checklist Dave. Very eye opening. Honestly I would have to answer a big "no" to most of these questions in the case of Greater Grace. |
calv (calv)
Advanced Member
Username: calv
Post Number: 860
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 71.113.66.232
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 3:41 pm: |
|
Ya Dave!
I cut and posted it on the cc thread.
Thanks... |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 601
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 10:14 pm: |
|
Sorry, but this is an emergency,
My daughter has had a medical problem which has scared the wits out of us. She is stumbling around like a drunk. We were called by the school nurse Monday to tell us that Kayla was pale as a ghost, very weak and faint, she almost had a panic attack. Can;'t stay active for over an hour without having to sleep for 15 hours. She has had every kind of bloodwork you can imagine. They did a EKG, a urine, an MRI of the brain, cat scan and all they can find out is a very, very slight bladder infection. That was stretching it. Any ideas, hospital said vedago, our primary says no, he believes it's possible that it's Acid Reflux Disease which they said the nerves in her esophagus can trigger many side effects, some are the syptoms she has. PLEASE, any help would be greatly appreciated. The doctors are stumped and said if it's not the ACID thing it could be her heart. Why would that make her stumble? She is only 17 yrs old. She is to young for this stuff. If you don't want to answer here, e-mail me at tmwhjd@yahoo.com. Make sure you put Factnet or Kayla so I know what it's in reference to. Shalom Gone to PA HELP!!!! |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 478
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
|
anon the brief? |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 602
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 8:11 pm: |
|
Thank you Anon for your input. We went to church tonight and a woman who loves to wave banners during our service and who comes in hours before service and prays over certain chairs and stations like over where the guitarist plays e.t.c. She prayed for my daughter and we had her annointed with oil after. Well she seems to be doing better. Only the Lord will tell along with time. I have gotten a witness on it's chemical. I'm still interested in what YOU have to say. We are taking her back to our doctor on Monday to see what he says about chemical. God bless all of you. Hey, Cordell, how goes it? Thanks for suggesting Anon!! Love Gone to PA |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 604
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 8:49 pm: |
|
Now Please,
I'm guilty, but it was an emergency. Canyone else tell us about the cultish practices of GGWO/TBS. That is why I started this thread again. Let's get some testimonies out there about GGWO/ CHS/ TBS CULTISH PRACTICES e.t.c. Where are some of the Senior Members? Look, I'm not trying to beat someone over the head, bu this is what we came here for in the first place, isn't it? We can e-mail one another about doctrinal issues. Who loves John Calvin, or Oswald Chambers. Let's expose before we get put on the general discussion thread. After one more story, then I will tell mine and thats a deal! Shalom Gone to PA |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2194
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.145.62.144
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
|
It would be good to hear from some of the disaffiliated ministries.
Particularly where it concerns GGWO's underhanded tactics.
I have heard that GGWO is trying to reestablish it's hold on area's that disaffiliates are now in.
This type of action is not true evangelization.
It is in actuality a proclamation of war.Something no ministry should ever do to another.
It reveals the true heart of GGWO even though they and their associate pastors deny it,as has happened to me.
I can no longer trust GG pastors to be any kind of friend to me or anyone else.
They lie when they are caught doing wrong and think it's "God's will."
Then there is the cutting off of any communication with you if you have any disagreement with them.
This is because TRUTH is offensive to them when they are found to be wrong.
If error is found should it not be corrected?
GGWO has the mentality that they are beyond being wrong.Everyone else is the problem.
Therefore no correction is possible.
If you are smart,just leave.
} |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 598
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 1:52 pm: |
|
As long as GGWO leaders think they're perfect and spotless, correcting them is impossible. These sleezeballs twist Scripture and facts to try to come out on top and discredit anyone who would question them. No doubt these guys are really mad about losing all those affiliates and territory. They're definately trying to reclaim that lost territory in any way possible. They believe they're perfect and want to be everywhere. Anything questioning their teaching is highly offensive to them and they feel they have God's mandate to attack anyone who would question them in any way. These guys cannot be trusted with their long history of underhanded tactics, corruption, dirty politics, demeaning and slandering those who question them, false teaching and distortion of God's Word, diversion of loyalty and worship from God to themselves, brainwashing, undue influence and all the rest. The best thing to do is just get out of GGWO and never come back!!!!
SIDETHORN |
isabella (isabella)
Advanced Member
Username: isabella
Post Number: 681
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.60.65.227
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 7:05 pm: |
|
My dear Side,
They don't think they're perfect and spotless.
That's just what they teach the unsuspecting, like you and I, when we were there.
I'm still stupid, but I'm not evil.
Once I found out about what they were doing, I went to them and asked them.....WHY?
They did not confess. Instead they said:
"I'll pray about it."
Know why they wanted to "pray?"....because they knew...they knew what they were doing (still doing)...
I really don't believe they can help it...that's why they started the IAGM...IGAM...whatever...
Love to you, Sidethorn, keep the Faith.
Isabella
P.S. Side, take it easy. Life is very short.... |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 608
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 7:23 pm: |
|
(Message edited by Gone to PA on February 09, 2006) |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 601
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
|
Thanks Isabella.
Maybe I should say they think of their teaching as spotless or the best there is on this planet. How they run down everyone who differs from them is sickening. Such arrogance on their part. They would be better off coming clean on everything to the congregations to clean everything up before God. Better that than trying to convey themselves as perfect when they are not. I hope they do one day truly humble themselves and publicly repent. Otherwise I think their GGWO days are numbered and Frankford Plaza will be boarded up.
Love to you and I'm keeping the faith and moving on in Christ.
God bless.
SIDETHORN |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 612
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:06 am: |
|
bump |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2244
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.148.11.50
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 4:49 pm: |
|
.
|
kyled (kyled)
New member
Username: kyled
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 134.241.227.172
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
|
I had to interject a brief comment in the most loving way that I can. I read a lot of what was being said here and can only imagine the pain and hurt that has been experienced by so many of you. I don't go to a GGWO church, but I used to so I can understand the dissagreement with the doctrinal issues mentioned. I disagree personally with much of the doctrine and practices at GGWO. I personally won't affiliate any church the I lead with them operate the way they operate. That being said, though you may disagree with this they are still our brothers in Christ. Misguided? Yes. It's hard to not attack something that hurt you so profoundly. I think its the challenge of the believer to not use the same mud that was thrown at us to throw back at them. Perhaps too there's a little bit of something good we can learn from them. I sincerely am not trying to be a jerk or cause anger. I know how you all feel. I've been there. It's hard to find the balance of warning others of dangerous patterns but at the same time not to do it in anger. I think the best way to help people go to the right ministry context is to teach them God's word and not to attack other people. That is both counterproductive and unchristian and often time doesn't include the good things that do exist. |
jayso (jayso)
Intermediate Member
Username: jayso
Post Number: 316
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 69.205.150.205
| | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 3:02 am: |
|
Kyled; the voice of reason! Sometimes you just have to "Live and Let Die". |
godsweb (godsweb)
New member
Username: godsweb
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 69.238.92.139
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 6:37 pm: |
|
I met GOD in "PERSON", in 1967.
See His Message here: www.godsbelievers.com
His Message: "This is The Truth"
RHW
+++ PASS IT ON +++ |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2260
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.148.70.83
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 6:51 pm: |
|
I looked at the site and ask you why you want us to pass on such B.S.?
Some guy claiming to be the new Christ?
Quote:
Richard Henry Whiteside Prays for All Believers...
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
}
}} |
godsweb (godsweb)
New member
Username: godsweb
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 69.238.92.139
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 6:57 pm: |
|
It is a true story.
Remember: Disbelievers will suffer the
angry wrath of God. He says, not me!...
I am His messenger, not the new Christ !!!
RHW |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2263
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.148.70.83
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 7:12 pm: |
|
"HE" is not the Christ.
"HE" is Richard Henry Whiteside.
To the above copy and pasted "QUOTE" I respond with this,"Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
Also:Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
A good "motto" to have is "FOLLOW NO MAN."
Now what are you left with?
} |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2264
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.148.70.83
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 7:12 pm: |
|
"HE" is not the Christ.
"HE" is Richard Henry Whiteside.
To the above copy and pasted "QUOTE" I respond with this,"Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
Also:Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
A good "motto" to have is "FOLLOW NO MAN."
Now what are you left with?
}
}} |
godsweb (godsweb)
New member
Username: godsweb
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 69.238.92.139
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 7:32 pm: |
|
I am only His Messenger, Not Jesus Christ !
I received a message from Jesus Christ also,
in 1986... See: http://www.godsweb.com/thelord1.html
I am also webmaster for www.godsweb.com
RHW |
cordell (cordell)
Advanced Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 548
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 9:20 pm: |
|
Wee
Todd
Didd |
dinaweena (dinaweena)
Advanced Member
Username: dinaweena
Post Number: 709
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 70.22.93.9
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
|
it's supposed to be
I
Wee
Todd
Didd
say it out loud (my husband did this to me in a room full of people when we were first married....I TOTALLY didn't get it...I must have repeated it out loud ten times followed by bursts of raucous laughter before I understood what I was saying....but when I did.....boy did I laugh!) |
cordell (cordell)
Advanced Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 550
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
|
No. Here's the whole thing:
Wee Todd Didd
Wee Todd Didd
Aye
Yam
Sofa King
Wee Todd Didd.
You cannot leave out the sofa king. |
godsweb (godsweb)
New member
Username: godsweb
Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 69.238.92.139
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:09 pm: |
|
I met GOD in "PERSON", in 1967.
See His Message here: www.godsbelievers.com
His Message Titled: "This is The Truth"
Introducing: "The Gift of God's Goodness" ...
I am only HIS Messenger, not Jesus Christ !!!
RHW
+++ PASS IT ON +++ |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 375
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 8:56 am: |
|
Many of you shouldn't be so quick to mock
Richard Henry Whiteside from godsbelievers; actually he should appeal to many of you on this forum with the Universalist thought that abounds here. Note, how in the end of the quote below (from his website), he wants to bring all faiths together under a singular worship.
"And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall "all" flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:23.)
... God's Believers (Christians, Jews, Moslems, Baha'is and "all" Faiths)"
Praise be to the one and only true God and his Christ Jesus. You can be redeemed by his precious blood; it is the only hope for mankind.
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" 1Jn 5:12
(Message edited by hadasa on February 28, 2006) |
hodeuon (hodeuon)
Intermediate Member
Username: hodeuon
Post Number: 494
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.160.68.34
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
|
How much correct doctrine is necessary for salvation?
Where do you draw the line? |
dinaweena (dinaweena)
Advanced Member
Username: dinaweena
Post Number: 710
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 70.22.93.9
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
|
cordell- I just get a kick out of you....sofa king... |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 376
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
|
hodeuon,
I like these two statements myself; a pretty good fulcrum, if not an encapsulation:
Praise be to the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD AND HIS CHRIST JESUS. You can be redeemed by his precious blood; it is the only hope for mankind.
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" 1Jn 5:12.
but, in my mind, this raises another query; something I wanted to touch on before;
Dina said: (if you will permit me):
"Hey everyone-
check out this video clip....maybe if we refocus on what is TRUE, then we will no longer be 'underminded' in our freedom in Him:-)"
And the video showed a guy stating that Jesus was his saviour.....
The statement I want to focus on is "maybe if we refocus on what is TRUE"
It has been mentioned by many people on this forum that the main common denominator on this forum is the mission to come against, bring down, expose, or whatever to GGWO.
So what truth are we to rally around on here, THAT?;
because, do all here believe that Christ is the only way truth and life or our their other God's or religons that can lead us to salvation, are there other paths, was Jesus just a teacher, a good man, or was he the unique God-man come to take away the sins of the world; Prophet, Priest, and King.
Is the Christ coming again to set up a final world order that only those who are Christ's will enjoy. Was Jesus born of a virgin, crucified, died, buried, ressurected.
Are the scriptures given to us in a way that they can be reasonably understood if we understand the principles of interpretation given in scripture itself or can be pick and choose what we want; thereby giving the scriptures no real Authority in the end; saying we are not 'biblical literists'-what are the connotations of that?; Was the bible preserved by God in essential purity and truth or are all the versions corrupted by men?
and then there are higher criticisms, lower criticisms, liberal, feminist, universalist agenda's; also, atheistic, agonostic, and secular humanistic musings
What Truth are we supposed to unify under on this here forum; I'll have to ask that before I venture any further
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" 1Jn 5:12.
(Message edited by hadasa on February 28, 2006) |
dinaweena (dinaweena)
Advanced Member
Username: dinaweena
Post Number: 711
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 70.22.93.9
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
|
Hadasa- I will permit you :-)
what TRUTH should we unify under? I think it should be that Christ came to be our only Life. GGWO became for many, the source of thier lives, instead of Christ. Our own thoughts, opinions, doctrines, interpretations seem to have become the crux of our lives, not Christ being all in all.
"I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME, and the life that I now life I live by the faith OF the Son of God....."
I think THAT is what should be our unifying factor. The rest is, I believe, our way of working out our faith in fear and trembling....reconciling the Life we have in Christ with our soul/mind so our daily walk is His. Sometimes it takes people longer than others (not alluding to anyone in particular here) and some never get past the point of receiving the gift because they go on in knowledge rather than wisdom from the Holy Spirt sent to minister the Christ-life to our souls. |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 378
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 3:27 pm: |
|
hodeuon,
also, in reference to your question
"How much correct doctrine is necessary for salvation? Where do you draw the line?"
Fundamentally speaking; the manifestation of "Salvation" in a soul can be seen in something
apart from doctrine at least in it's origins.
"If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority" John 7:17
Salvation seems to be manifested in a heart attitude before any aphrehension of 'doctrine' God knows who are his; and the sheep hear his voice; It seems essential doctrine is made clear in those peoples hearts; so when I see 'Christians' have problems with who Christ said he was: Prophet, Priest, and King; with his commands and moral precepts and great commisson..that Christ is the only way, truth, and life I think of those verses that talk about the highway and the narrow path and "Lord, look what I did in your name....depart I never knew you....
Well, Ill leave it at that and just say your question
"How much correct doctrine is necessary for salvation? Where do you draw the line?"
presumes some things and intrinsically may not be a valid question (depending on the sense).
Salvation is in a person, Jesus Christ.
(Message edited by hadasa on February 28, 2006) |
bonniescott (bonniescott)
Intermediate Member
Username: bonniescott
Post Number: 136
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 63.22.2.159
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 4:05 pm: |
|
Hadasa, You asked
"What Truth are we supposed to unify under on this here forum; I'll have to ask that before I venture any further"
Why must we unify under any one "truth", doctrine, or theology?
What's wrong with pure, honest, open communication? |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 379
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 68.169.47.35
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:01 pm: |
|
bonnie,
nothing; and I, for one, can appreciate that question.
but I think the 'honest' thing is very dubious sometimes.........my opinion
pure? not sure how that applies after the fall......forgive me
but open may be a possibility
(Message edited by hadasa on February 28, 2006) |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 650
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:25 pm: |
|
Unify under ONE truth, I am the way and the TRUTH, how about we tap into the unity we have in that which is the unity of the Spirit of truth? Does not that make sense? Is Christ divided? No so therefore there is unity in the TRUTH. Gone to PA LoL shalom and love GTP |
bonniescott (bonniescott)
Intermediate Member
Username: bonniescott
Post Number: 137
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 63.22.124.197
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
|
Hadasa,
I would challenge that you have precious little basis on which to judge whether or not what I communicate is pure (meaning unadulterated) and honest.
Here's one pure, honest truth that I hold dear:
I may "disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire |
louise_connolly (louise_connolly)
Advanced Member
Username: louise_connolly
Post Number: 559
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 68.222.196.83
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:58 pm: |
|
How about the truth that you can't be a Democrat and be a Christian? Is not that true, Hadasa  |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 380
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 68.169.47.35
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 8:30 pm: |
|
bonnie,
don't be so defensive about the pure thing; I was actually including everybody; including myself; and I actually wasn't including you in the honest thing; because I find you refreshingly honest about where you stand; no left handed compliment intended either
believing blessings to you;
email is a very tricky medium of communication;
louise,
c'mon girl; that's
weeeeeeeeee
todd
didd
and I hold to no such idea |
whatsup (whatsup)
Intermediate Member
Username: whatsup
Post Number: 124
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 66.30.126.61
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 9:40 pm: |
|
Ah, yes, bonniescott.... Voltaire, the author of your pure honest truth...
Voltaire, atheist, French author, humanist, rationalist(1694-1778), held up a copy of the Bible in the air and smugly proclaimed "In 100 years this book will be forgotten and eliminated...". Shortly after his death, Voltaire's private residence became the headquarters of the Geneva Bible Society and became a major distribution hub for the very Bible he assigned to extinction.
If Voltaire could speak to us tonight, I suspect his quotes would be somewhat different |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 382
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 68.169.47.35
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 9:54 pm: |
|
yeah Voltaire, I was thinkin of gettin to that also; nice.
just veiwed a life changer on Liberty University's (Jerry Falwell) Pulpit Classics.
A black gentlemen working to evangelize the crips and bloods in the early 90's; changin things one family at a time; really powerful |
angelathisfeet (angelathisfeet)
Junior Member
Username: angelathisfeet
Post Number: 32
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 68.186.254.22
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
|
Hadasa, is that Pulpit Classics available online? |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 383
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
|
Voltaire; God must have a sense of humor or a sense of omnipotence.
angel; I don't know; maybe with some net surfing you can find it |
bonniescott (bonniescott)
Intermediate Member
Username: bonniescott
Post Number: 138
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.60.183.196
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:02 pm: |
|
Hmm Whatsup,
Let me see if I follow your logic:
Because Voltaire was the author of the quote I cited, and because Voltaire was, at least at one point in his life, an atheist, therefore this quote is not valuable, pure, honest, or true. Even though its probably one of the most often cited quotes of lovers of freedom of speech, and one of the principals on which this country was founded.
Glad I don't have to be so selective or self righteous about what I appreciate. |
anon_brief (anon_brief)
Advanced Member
Username: anon_brief
Post Number: 544
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.248.71.145
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
|
It is precisely this kind of flawed logic that allowed everything that came out of Stevens mouth to be accepted as valid.
Truth is still truth regardless of who tells it. |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 388
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:36 pm: |
|
I dont think he was talking about that particular quote bonnie; but many others that Voltaire had made like
"In 100 years this book (the Bible) will be forgotten and eliminated...".
we were just commenting on Voltaire; since you brought him up; not necessarily saying much about THAT particular quote
so I think your following your own logic; not his
anyhow 'freedom of speech' that is not rooted in or checked by a societal consensus based on significant scriptural truth merely turns into a hammer to smash that very same society.
so I'm not really a fan of that particular quote:
"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire
in any unqualified way anyhow.
and if any quotes me here; try and put it in whole context |
hadasa (hadasa)
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 390
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 3:39 pm: |
|
"It is precisely this kind of flawed logic that allowed everything that came out of Stevens mouth to be accepted as valid."
I agree
only there might be a slight discrepency on who has the flawed logic
(Message edited by hadasa on March 01, 2006) |
dinaweena (dinaweena)
Advanced Member
Username: dinaweena
Post Number: 712
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 70.22.93.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 5:06 pm: |
|
"This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire."
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."
"Common sense is not so common."
"If there were only one religion in England there would be danger of despotism; if there were two they would cut each other’s throats. But there are thirty, and they live in peace and happiness."
"I shall finally have to renounce your Optimism? I'm afraid to say that it's a mania for insisting that all is well when things are going badly." (Candide, renouncing the Leibnizian Optimism)
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
"One hundred years from my day there will not be a Bible in the earth except one that is looked upon by an antiquarian curiosity seeker."
"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." (Essay on Tolerance)
"Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien." Translation: "The best is the enemy of the good." (Dictionnaire Philosophique).
"Now now, dear man, this is not the time to be making enemies." (on his death bed when a priest asked him to "renounce satan")
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." (Epistle on the "Three Imposters"). This statement by Voltaire became so familiar that Gustave Flaubert included it in his Dictionnaire des idées reçues ("Dictionary of commonplace ideas"), and it is still among the most frequently quoted of Voltaire's dicta [2].
"Truth is a fruit that can only be picked when it is very ripe."
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease."
The quote "I do not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it" IS COMMONLY MISSATRIBUTED TO VOLTAIRE, but is actually a summary of his attitudes, based on statements he made in Essay on Tolerance, by Evelyn Beatrice Hall (writing under the pseudonym of Stephen G. Tallentyre in The Friends of Voltaire (1906)). |
cordell (cordell)
Advanced Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 556
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 8:31 pm: |
|
If Caiaphas and Balaam can prophesy, why must Voltaire be excluded from their worthy company?
(you may quote me, it's original)
cordell |
bonniescott (bonniescott)
Intermediate Member
Username: bonniescott
Post Number: 139
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 63.22.27.7
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 8:58 pm: |
|
"anyhow 'freedom of speech' that is not rooted in or checked by a societal consensus based on significant scriptural truth merely turns into a hammer to smash that very same society."
Gee wiz, Hadasa that was amazing! Awesome even! Can I quote you? Maybe we should have that written into our constitution. |
guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner (guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner)
New member
Username: guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 155.215.21.3
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
|
"I agree to some extent with most of what you are saying."
- From some of my own dinner time conversation. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 666
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 1:38 pm: |
|
Bump for Coral. Some good reading about GGWO. |
countdown
New member
Username: countdown
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 213.125.19.196
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
|
And Man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have acquired a man with Jehovah. 2 And she further bore his brother Abel. And Abel was a shepherd, but Cain was a husbandman. 3 And in process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering to Jehovah. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock, and of their fat. And Jehovah looked upon Abel, and on his offering; 5 and upon Cain, and on his offering, he did not look. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. 6 And Jehovah said to Cain, Why art thou angry, and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, will not [thy countenance] look up [with confidence]? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door; and unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8 And Cain spoke to Abel his brother, and it came to pass when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. 9 And Jehovah said to Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: am I my brother's keeper? 10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 And now be thou cursed from the ground, which hath opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand. 12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield thee its strength; a wanderer and fugitive shalt thou be on the earth. 13 And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is too great to be borne. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me this day from the face of the ground, and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a wanderer and fugitive on the earth; and it will come to pass, [that] every one who finds me will slay me. 15 And Jehovah said to him, Therefore, whoever slayeth Cain, it shall be revenged sevenfold. And Jehovah set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should smite him. 16 And Cain went out from the presence of Jehovah, and dwelt in the land of Nod, toward the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city; and he called the name of the city after the name of his son Enoch. 18 And to Enoch was born Irad; and Irad begot Mehujael; and Mehujael begot Methushael; and Methushael begot Lemech. 19 And Lemech took two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the second, Zillah. 20 And Adah bore Jabal: he was the father of those who dwell in tents, and [breed] cattle. 21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of those who handle the harp and pipe. 22 And Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, the forger of every kind of tool of brass and iron. And the sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah. 23 And Lemech said to his wives: Adah and Zillah, hear my voice, Ye wives of Lemech, listen to my speech. For I have slain a man for my wound, and a youth for my bruise. 24 If Cain shall be avenged seven-fold; Lemech seventy and seven fold. 25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son, and called his name Seth: ... For God has appointed me another seed instead of Abel, because Cain has slain him. 26 And to Seth, to him also was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then people began to call on the name of Jehovah. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 681
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 6:57 am: |
|
Bump. Time to bump this thread above all the 'clutter' from the spamming.
(Message edited by sidethorn on April 25, 2006) |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 682
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 7:27 am: |
|
GGWO has seen plenty of change in the past couple of years. Many have left. A lot of affiliate churches has broken away to form their own church chain (IAGM). Carl Stevens health has sadly declined putting him more and more in the background as Tom Schaller does his thing at the pulpit in Baltimore. Tom and others seem intent on continuing on the GGWO legacy as they see fit.
But where is this group really going??? God is continuing to bring more people out using differing methods including Factnet. Of course GGWO Baltimore is seeking more members all the time. This even includes planting new GGWO affiltiates in areas where they lost former affiliates to the IAGM. God is certainly putting more and more pressure on the GGWO leadership to clean up their act and get with God's program and the rest of the body of Christ. But will these guys repent and get with God here??? I sure hope so. Will the body in GGWO Baltimore break out of their denial and the bubble world they're in or will God have to force GGWO Baltimore to close its doors someday??? God is the One Who knows the future. One day we to will see the answers to these questions. Time will tell. |
forte
Intermediate Member
Username: forte
Post Number: 178
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 7:54 am: |
|
I don't think they well ever close their doors. They've always, always found ways to continue. And no, they will never repent. Even if they correct some doctrines publicly, they won't ever say that the old ones were wrong. They don't feel the need. What comes from their pulpit they consider pure at all times. Yes, there are increasing numbers; if you walk in and out twice they count you twice. It's more like a frenzy...they've created a bigger monster than before and there will be many casualties. And in 5, 10 or 15 years they'll have to do it all over again. Interestingly enough they won't have Stevens as their icon although maybe by then they'll have convinced people that he's a saint or something, but I figure by then many won't even know who he was. Just my opinion. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 685
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 7:17 am: |
|
While I hope they would repent, I must be realistic. I seriously doubt these guys will repent until some major judgement falls on them. GGWO will never willingly close its doors, but God may force them too someday. Things might get really bad at GGWO-Baltimore in the future. God is a patient God, but I wonder how much longer God will tolerate all the crap going on there. God will have to do something or this monsterous cult will grow in the future on its own. True more people are being rescued out, but GGWO is actively seeking new members like anything. As for Carl, he will be plastered all over the place like their own original pope once he passes. Then he could be idolized like never before. |
onshore
Junior Member
Username: onshore
Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 64.222.208.66
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 7:49 am: |
|
That vivid picture of "his picture being plastered all over the place" reminds me of being in Tiananmen Square in China.
It represents the beginnings of the fall of a corrupt empire where students finally fought back. (Remember that one lone guy standing out in front of the tanks?)
Still...Overlooking the entire square, on a huge cement wall, is painted a 200 foot painting of Mao's face.
I suppose someone will try to immortalize Carl. But, the fruit of his “Ministry” still remains. Mostly lots of hurting people who finally found their voices and the truth. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 687
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 1:07 pm: |
|
I sure remember that guy standing in front of those tanks in China quite well. Man that took some guts!!
They'll surely try to immortalize Carl. Carl is the center of a lot of peoples' lives in GGWO unfortunately. They could never let their hero really die. I can see the pictures of Carl up on the walls, maybe some room sized ones. Maybe have a big sign with Carl's picture on it overlooking the plaza on Moravia Park Drive. They'll probably sell a bunch of books about the life and teachings of Carl. Maybe they'll even rename Frankford Plaza as Stevens Plaza or something crazy like that.
As far as the fruit of this 'ministry' goes. Way too many hurting, exploited, misled people that lost friends and loved ones over stupid loyalty issues to the crooked leadership at GGWO. Thank God more people are waking up to the fact they got taken for a ride and are getting out and finding true healing from God. May God bless and heal them all. |
foolsparadise
Junior Member
Username: foolsparadise
Post Number: 35
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.211.160.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 7:18 pm: |
|
Yep,
Once Carl is gone, GGWO will memoralize him and attempt (as they always have) to assert that he was "God's man" and has a tremendous legacy that must be preserved and "enriched". Most of the current GGWO leadership are far too lazy, impatient, and just plain opportunistic to settle down and really study for themselves and enter into the kind of repentance that would make the difference. They'll continue propping up Carl's legacy and try to keep the disruption at Moravia Park Drive to a minimum so their "ministry" does not loose momentum and $$'s.
What's more most are far too arrogant about "what God has done through them" to admit just what a load of horse pucky most of Carl's "legacy" really is. Face it, it's not just about a few pyramids getting deccusated or some demon armies running amuck in the local assembly (examples of Carl's bull shite "doctrines"). Carl's fundamental premise is bogus as illustrated so clearly in sidethorn's last comment on the Grace Hour Thread (the comment about "lies" are defined).
Also, apparently Franklin Graham is doing a crusade in the Baltimore area very soon. This was just announced during the Wednesday evening service. GGWO plans to participate. Wonder how the Franklin Graham association will handle this? Do they know just what a cult GGWO is
(Message edited by foolsparadise on April 26, 2006) |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 688
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 5:38 am: |
|
Thanks Foolsparadise. Great post.
A lot of what these GGWO leaders think as God working through them is really their own fleshly work that will be burned up as stubble on judgement day. Too much of what they taught over the years is a load of crap. And you're so right about Carl's legacy being a bunch of horse pucky. People like Schaller, Scibelli, and Love have gained a lot of power and money by promoting this legacy and being a willing part of it. Without it, where is their money and power??? Then they would have to get out there and get real jobs and struggle to make ends meet like so many of us!!!! Maybe then they would learn what the word WORK really means!!
Those Franklin Graham people might do well to start reading Factnet, Rick Ross's site and others to find out what GGWO is really about. Then they should stay clear of GGWO in every way possible!! |
david_munson
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2384
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.131.10.108
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 9:30 am: |
|
I doubt that the Graham crusade will allow GGWO to participate.
They didn't let them get involved the last time they tried to in Boston.
They know about GGWO and I think they'll avoid the mess that all that entails.
} |
anon_brief
Advanced Member
Username: anon_brief
Post Number: 564
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.85.47.60
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 9:41 am: |
|
From Franklin Graham Festivals website:
"Every evangelistic festival conducted by Franklin Graham is the result of a cooperative effort involving the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, the evangelist, his team, and many local Christians and churches.
The primary objective of any Franklin Graham festival is to bring uncommitted individuals into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and firmly establish them in a local church."
Hopefully, they will not be referring anyone to GGWO.
Why not tell them what you think?
http://www.grahamfestival.org/contact.asp |
littlesister
New member
Username: littlesister
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 65.246.175.14
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:34 pm: |
|
Billy Graham's ministry already took at look at The Bible Speaks years ago and told Carl he had to get rid of his "Divine Authority" Doctrine. Guess that never happened, but then I left in 1981 |
escaped
Junior Member
Username: escaped
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 66.131.114.173
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
|
Thats when I joined, in 81', but that was the year Billy Graham Association banned The Bible Speaks from being Councellors at their crusades. There was a riff at the end of 81 and some churches left back then. But most of those churches didn't survive. The ones I know where negative towards the ministry of CHS. This is the big mistake, if we get into a negative communication towards anything like this, sure we name it for what it is, like I.A.G.M. did, or actually the boys before that association formed. But the secret is to go on and allow God to cleanse them of the pollution of KooKieness  from GG. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 689
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 5:40 am: |
|
Carl never did get rid of that "Divine Authority" doctrine and now Tom Schaller is proclaiming it. Same old crap with a new madman at the pulpit!!! Let the exposure of this disgusting GGWO cult continue on as they still mislead people to drink their Koolaid!!! |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 733
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
|
BUMP FOR SOME MORE GOOD READING. |
hadasa
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 481
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:25 pm: |
|
Thanks so much for your bump, I also was involved in the bus ministry and song leading. The potential for reaching those kids was also greatly destroyed because of the Pastor and his marking.
I can toltally identify with your experience, I may even know who you are, we may have seen each other in baltimore as we were in at the same time. But that's either here nor there and not really important.
I have been supressing and misplacing my anger as you may have seen with side issues all over.
This cult and these people were grossly deceitful and hurtful, I have to come to grips with that and not supress the fact that I was spiritually and emotionally severly abused.
I need to, in a sense, own the pain, and don't misplace it; direct anger (while sinning not; and in this case that is quite the challenge) to the right place, in my case, the things that happened to be under the ministry leaders of TBS & GGWO; I cannot forget or bypass these steps to true healing |
hadasa
Intermediate Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 482
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:26 pm: |
|
Sidethorn,
I also appreciate your constancy (as you feel led) and your stability. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 734
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 5:48 am: |
|
Thanks for your thoughts and comments too. We were both pawns in GGWO's game to exploit and mislead people. They wanted us as long as they thought we we're valuable to their man made programs and games. They wanted us as long as they thought we believed in them (CHS etc.) and would willingly surrender all to them. Once they found out otherwise, they would start the shunning and marking. Talk about being used!!!!
While I suffered some pain from my GGWO experience, I've seen quite a few others suffer much more. I can think of someone who still has some big emotional scars from being condemned and stared at and shunned in the GGWO youth 'ministry' and our old affiliate GGWO 'church'. Much of my anger I've vented here on Factnet is on the behalf of others I know and people I've never met who get sucked into GGWO to get led astray. The best way to vent my own anger is to expose GGWO to others as the sickening cult that it is. I've already been exposing GGWO from within while still a youth worker, then by word of mouth on the outside once I was ousted and marked. In early 2005 while googling the name "Greater Grace World Outreach", I found Factnet and started reading peoples' posts. I was so shocked about how my own experiences and other abuses were so widespread, I was close to falling out of my chair. The more I read stories and accounts, the more I realised the importance of publicly exposing GGWO. What a wonderful God given tool we have in Factnet to get the word out. I then registered as 'SIDETHORN' and started posting my own accounts and entered into numerous discussions along the way. Later, I found out about www.discussggwo.org and started posting there too. There some good reading on that site, especially lately. I'll never regret exposing GGWO all over the Internet and I thank everyone else who took the time to do the same. God bless.
SIDETHORN |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 789
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 8:40 am: |
|
More good reading material on GGWO in general, especially concerning youth. Now that Camp Life is near, time to bump this one up. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 879
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 69.143.116.8
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 8:06 pm: |
|
Time for a bump especially for those who think believers are commanded in Scripture to stay silent about cultic churches they used to attend while more innocent people get sucked into them and get led astray, spiritually abused, divided from loved ones, etc. etc. etc. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 936
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 11:01 am: |
|
Bump for Littlesister.  |
ghost_story
New member
Username: ghost_story
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 67.80.123.74
| | Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 4:03 pm: |
|
what does "bump" mean? |
hadasa
Advanced Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 588
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 4:09 pm: |
|
It means 'put this up for re-reading'
also, Christians are not commanded to stay silent about 'cultic' churches but they are commanded to do all things in love, loving their enemy yet hating the sin, and leaving personal vengence to God. |
hadasa
Advanced Member
Username: hadasa
Post Number: 589
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 205.172.107.75
| | Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 4:15 pm: |
|
Did you also know that in half a year a person's veiwpoint on issues can actually change, even perhaps radically. Actually they can possilbly change in one day; everyone can attest to that at one time or another i'm sure. |
david_munson
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 3305
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 4.156.99.62
| | Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 9:28 am: |
|
Hadasa,
it really is astounding what the Lord can do for a person.
I would have to attest to that.
Doesn't matter who the person is or what they have done either.
The Spirit of the Lord is every where.
} |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 957
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 3:48 pm: |
|
God can cleanse anyone and save them no matter how wicked and depraved they were. All God is looking for is a heart that will be humble and let Christ come in and make the changes He wants to make. Ones whole outlook can completely change. Amazing what God will do for someone who will let Him do His work. Thats whats important, not a building or 'the ministry'. Forget about men's programs, teachings, or egos. Forget about one ministry's inner circle claiming they have the best teaching that can't be found anywhere else. Whats important is God, His kingdom, and His true teaching. A healthy ministry will always respect this and let God work in peoples' lives instead of trying to work in peoples' lives themselves. The programs of men will pass away. What God does will truly last. |
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 985
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 3:03 pm: |
|
Here we are nearing the end of 2006. GGWO may be around but many have left over the last couple of years. Hundreds of people left "the ministry" for good. Many of the affiliate churches left. Now we have the IAGM. Schaller is carrying on the legacy of Carl Stevens in Baltimore at the Plaza. The false teaching, abuse, and manipulation of people goes on. The hardened faithful keep coming to every service to hear what they think is the best teaching there is. They are so decieved!!!! The latest wolf in sheep's clothing has kept them in such darkness like Carl did. Meanwhile Tom Schaller, Carl, and other insiders continue to enjoy great power and wealth at the expense of the people. But Factnet and other sites are still around and the truth is still going out. More people are getting set free and more are avoiding GGWO altogether. Let the word continue to be proclaimed as long as GGWO is the manipulative, exploiting cult that it is!!! |
sidethorn
New member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 9:01 am: |
|
You deserve a bump today. |
sidethorn
Junior Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 39
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 68.32.127.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 10:48 am: |
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Well, Factnet may be going away but the exposure of GGWO will not. There is still the www.discussggwo.org site with more exposure and discussion going on there. There are other sites where people can find out the truth about GGWO and other abberant fundamentalist groups that manipulate people and take advantage of them. Of course there's always word of mouth. That one's been around even before this whole Factnet forum got really big. God did say in His Word that the secret things would be brought to light and that things said in secret would be proclaimed from the housetops (Luke 12:3; Matthew 10:27). The secret sins of GGWO will continue to be brought to light with or without Factnet. Time will tell what happens. God used Factnet in a big way to enlighten many to leave GGWO these last few years and warn others about joining GGWO. More of that will continue as God does His work. GGWO will continue to feel the heat if they stay on their present cultic course. They will reap what they sow sooner or later. Their 'glory' days when they could take advantage of people in secrecy without major public exposure are over. The truth about GGWO is out there for all to see. Praise God forevermore. |
sidethorn
Senior Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 1180
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.178.231.170
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:02 pm: |
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Factnet is still here and people are still reading. The word is still going out about GGWO and those abberant groups that mislead people. Even the watered down version of GGWO known as the IAGM is being exposed. While some progress has been made there, sadly many within have still never truly unlearned the manipulative teachings and ways of Carl Stevens. No wonder the IAGM is a watered down GGWO!! Lots of good discussions about that are happening on www.discussggwo.org among other topics.
One of the biggest problems with both groups is the pastors' insisting the people lean upon the pastors to do their thinking for them. Independant thinking is viewed as rebellious and evil. This is ruthless control of the people for selfish purposes. A real pastor with a shepard's heart for the people would never size control of their thinking but would serve God and the people and help meet their real needs instead. People are to lean upon God and not lean on the pastor as a crutch. A real pastor would never want to be peoples' crutch but build up their direct relationships with Christ. Pastor doesn't mean "middleman"!!! Something many in GGWO and the IAGM need to think about!! |
