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gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 595
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 1:17 pm: | 
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Hi Everybody,
You might remember me. Anyway, wouldn't this be great if God used this oppurtunity to use this thread to do exactly what the founders of this thread intended? To expose Greater Grace World outreach as the cult that it has turned out to be. All information concerning this place of mind control and corruption should be posted here. Thank you for any and all info you can give us on this place which has literally destroyed thousands of lives. Gone To PA
Thank you Lord for this fresh start, I hope! |
arron (arron)
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.204.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
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well good to see you back gone to pa. |
bob_brinton (bob_brinton)
Senior Member
Username: bob_brinton
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.123.122.187
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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I find it interesting that the Religious Cults and Sects section is said to have 216388 posts in it. That is not what seems currently available. I tried doing a search for an old thread I started and couldn't reach it. Which is okay. I just find it interesting.
My email is bob.brinton@verizon.net |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 573
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 7:02 pm: |
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I think some massive malfunction happened to FACTNET during the afternoon. All those 70000+ posts on Greater Grace World Outreach are out there somewhere. I suspect the software for creating new threads might be affected. GHOST, please, we have a problem. All these GGWO threads need to be reunited like before. Thanks and God bless
SIDETHORN |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 596
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 8:43 pm: |
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THANKS AARON,
MAYBE THE OLD THREADS WILL COME BACK AND MAYBE NOT, BUT I LIKE WHAT IT SAYS UNDER THE WORDS DISCUSSION BOARD. " TELL US YOUR STORY" ANYONE WANT TO BE FIRST? IN HIS LOVE GONE TO PA |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 597
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 8:50 pm: |
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SIDETHORN,
SEEING THAT YOU ARE AN ADVANCED MEMBER, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH THE CULT KNOWN AS GGWO/TBS.IF THIS IS A FRESH START MANY COULD LEARN FROM MISTAKES MADE IN THE PAST. LET'S EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE. AND WHEN OTHERS CAN SECOND A STORY TOLD HERE AND THIRD IT, I MUST BELIEVE THAT MANY WILL TAKE IT AS TRUTH. WE ALL KNOW WE HAVE POSTED OVER 70K THREADS CONCERNING THIS. WASN'T THE PROBLEM WITH FN SPACE. MAYBE THIS IS A WAY FOR FN TO KEEP GOING. THERE ARE SOME SENIOR MEMBERS THAT POST HERE ALSO WHO COULD REALLY SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS CULT. PEACE, IN JESUS GONE TO PA |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 459
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:16 am: |
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Here's an interesting link concerning that guy Z who posts:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17555.html?1138818764 |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 460
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:20 am: |
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And, if it works, here's a link to the old "comments please" thread.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17103.html?1138678421#MB |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 461
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:26 am: |
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http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/12338.html?1138662657
That's Hodi's "Recent GGWO Services Thread" |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 463
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:43 am: |
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http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17515.html
Landover Baptist Church |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 464
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:44 am: |
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http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17530.html?1138790502#MB
Led by the Spirit |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 465
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:45 am: |
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http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/17361.html?1138734079#MB
Exploding Diaper |
cordell (cordell)
Intermediate Member
Username: cordell
Post Number: 466
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.11.216.61
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:49 am: |
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Your computer's history should have links to other threads, should you want to post them here. But it could be a real pain trying to keep up with them. |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 577
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:57 am: |
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Some experiences at GGWO:
During the 1990's I was introduced to GGWO by a close friend who described it as an on fire evangelical family of churches. On the surface, GGWO had all the marks of a grace oriented ministry with a zeal for spreading the Gospel. I heard messages about salvation by faith plus nothing(works) and eternal security of the believer. Teachings about a pretribulation Rapture for all believers and coming judgement were also prevelant and consistant with teachings of many other ministries I'd encountered for 15 years. I attended a branch church and occasionally visited GGWO Baltimore. I did know Carl Stevens and John Love personally for years who seemed okay at first. Slowly that all started to change.
One of my first warning signs was at a restaurant where Carl Stevens preached a little sermon after a soulwinning blitz. As Carl spoke, many of the people sat there in a strange trance like I had never seen at any other church or fellowship group. I was wondering why people were focusing so intently on a man. My answers would come later when I found that Carl Stevens was actually a cult leader that used people for his own purposes after brainwashing them.
After joining my affiliate GGWO church, I fellowshiped with a man that would become the local youth leader. After talking with him about many experiences including ones where I ministered to kids in other churches, he asked me to help out in his youth group. I gladly oblidged and became a driver and helper there. In the coming months, I formed friendships with many of the kids and some of the parents as a mentor and big brother. God wanted me to be there for the kids where they felt comfortable enough to discuss anything without fear of judgement or condemnation. My supporting them was appreciated by the youth leader at first, but after a few short years, that would end.
More to follow later:
SIDETHORN |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 579
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 8:25 am: |
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After helping in youth ministry for a while, the false teachings of Greater Grace World Outreach began to surface. The first one was legalistic teaching of mandatory Sunday service attendance. After spending a Sunday with a friend on my own time riding some roller coasters instead of attending my affiliate church, my local pastor became furious with me and treated me with contempt ever since. The following Sunday, he asked me where I was so I told him about the great time I had on all the coasters and other rides. He then blurted "How dare you go ... when the Word is being preached" and then stormed away in a childish fury. Ever since he ignored me and alienated me. He still put up with me in the youth ministry for a while since they had trouble getting enough drivers to drive kids to youth functions. Many more false teachings would then come out.
Another false teaching was the presumed infallabilty of Carl Stevens and those pastors close to him. People dared not disagree with Carl or any pastor/teacher because their every word was presumed to be a word from God Himself. Disagree with the pastor and your sinning against God. Agree with the pastor, then you're a faithful follower of Christ.
What really was cultic about GGWO was the forbidding of the people to think for themselves and take their personal decisions directly to God for guidance. Everything had to go through the pastor/teacher or Carl himself. Only Carl and the pastors were presumed to have enough enlightenment to think at all. Others who thought for themselves were condemned as being evil, divisive and rebellious against God. They would immediately be condemned, shunned, alienated, and ultimately slandered to turn as many others as possible against them. Thats the GGWO marking treatment that I'll hit on later.
Another false teaching was called "no touch love". People we're presumed to be so undisciplined and out of control to keep one little hand hold or hug from becoming full blown sex. Therefore GGWO forbade unmarried people from touching each other in any way until formally married. Of course Scriptures were grossly twisted to support this extreme viewpoint.
More to come
SIDETHORN |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2164
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.143.82.152
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:09 am: |
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www.discussggwo.org
www.carlstevens.org
} |
lookatall (lookatall)
Intermediate Member
Username: lookatall
Post Number: 186
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.114.115.115
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:37 am: |
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Sounds like this pastor has unresolved shame issues.,
hence he projects shame onto others. |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 581
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:25 am: |
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Right on!! He does and he shames anyone who won't kiss up to him as he tries to control the people around him. He's a power hungry egomaniac like Carl Stevens. |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 582
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
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More on the false teachings:
Another false teaching includes delegated authority to the pastor/teacher. This is an extreme twist of Scripture that gives one's GGWO pastor/teacher absolute authority over every area of one's life no matter how personal it might be. People are expected to consult their pastor before making major personal decisions and even smaller ones. Only getting pastoral approval, is one allowed to carry out that decision. One can only imagine what a paradise GGWO is to any control freaks out there. All they have to do be willing to do is submit completely to Carl Stevens and his teachings go to MBCS (GGWO's Bible college) and become a GGWO pastor. Then Carl shares some of his power with them and gives them their own flock of people to control. Too many pastor of GGWO affiliate churches came into power this way. Like having little cult kingdoms within a bigger cult kingdom so long as they are all 1000% committed to Carl Stevens.
Another false teaching is called the "geographical will of God". This is a presumption that God wants a person to have a single GGWO pastor/teacher for life. Unless you're called to some other GGWO ministry like overseas, you're presumed to wanted by God to stay with your present GGWO pastor. What if God has other plans in mind for people??? HMMMM.
More coming:
(Message edited by sidethorn on February 02, 2006) |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 583
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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Your GGWO pastor is also presumed to be the one who will present you to Jesus Christ Himself during the believer's judgement day prophesied in the Bible. So you better be real good and submissive to the man who will present you to Christ. This is hogwash!!! In the Bible, Jesus presents us believers as spotless to the Father and believers are judged for degrees of rewards for how they lived for Christ in this life.
GGWO was also legalistic about tithing too. If you didn't pay up, you get shunned. This applied to kids to. All kids were expected to give at least 10 percent of their allowances to the church. Whatever happened to cheerful giving?? Here it was done under compulsion.
Another false teaching condemned all rock music ever made as evil even if it has Christian lyrics. Christian rock groups were condemned at GGWO regularly. Of course during long car rides to and from GGWO teen group functions, rock music was forbidden to be played in the cars. GGWO would rather the kids discuss Carl's teachings and how "great" they were. That created its own set of problems.
More coming: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 584
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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Thats just a piece of the pie when it comes to the false teachings at GGWO!!! The abuse and manipulation of people was even worse.
As the pastors at GGWO were considered perfect and infallible, they were never to be questioned. People were actually expected to give their complete trust and loyalty to their GGWO pastor/teacher. He was to be immediately obeyed in everything without any thinking over of anything. Blind obedience and trust was what these pastors wanted. They also wanted people's worship. Many FACTNET posts describe the disgusting worship of Carl Stevens with the long standing ovations and excessive cheering. Other pastors were worshipped too, particularly John Love who ran the GGWO youth program. I saw firsthand how many kids cheered Pastor Love at the Spring Rallies in PA. as he was about to speak. They cheered him like he was bigger than Michael Jordan at a basketball game. It was most unnatural and scary. I could see what he was doing. Pastor Love was training kids to worship GGWO pastors and to give them blind loyalty and obedience. Then as they grow up, they worship other GGWO pastors. It was also brainwashing!!!!! People were being programmed by repitition and tight information control to believe everything the pastors said and to surrender all loyalty and thought to them. Peoples' love for God was turned against them to control them.
More coming later: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 585
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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Within GGWO, many very exclusive cliques existed built around the worship and submission to Carl Stevens. The more one submitted to Carl and gave to him (money, time, servitude etc) the closer to Carl in terms of which clique one gets admitted to. This happens a lot in the youth ministry too. The kid's position is often determined by how much their parents give to Carl snd submit to him. Of course the kid's own submission and willingness to worship pastors makes a big difference too. One's social status is determined by which clique one is part of. Of course if no clique accepts a person, they're a nobody that gets thrown away like trash. Nobody wants them or acknowledges them. They either 'don't exist' or get marked by the church with slanderous lies.
More later: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 586
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 1:33 pm: |
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As GGWO seeks tight control of its own, people are often asked to help the pastors maintain control or provide favors. That could mean spying on a close friend or loved one to see if they obey the pastors rules and wishes. Other's tithed hugh amounts of income to gain additional favor or closeness to pastors or even Carl Stevens himself. Others worked long hours for little wages if anything at all. In a nutshell, Carl Stevens and his henchmen did not come to serve the people, they expected the people to serve them.
I've personally witnessed the brainwashing of a number of people into the Carl Stevens teaching and lifestyle. This was particularly true of those attending the Maryland Bible College and Seminary at GGWO Baltimore. People became docile little robots that considered thinking for oneself as rebellion against God. They blindly trusted and obeyed their pastor/teachers and served their every whim. Anything else was considered a sin. These poor people started spewing GGWO doctrine without really thinking about what they were saying. Their interests would change along with their identities. It was such a sad sight to see.
As far as Maryland Bible College and Seminary goes, if you were a member of GGWO Baltimore, you were expected to attend classes there. A lot of high pressure persuasive tactics were applied to the people to get them to enroll. They even tried it on me a bit, but got nowhere!! Those who didn't attend of course were considered as lesser human beings not completely committed to Christ. Then the rejection, alienation and sometimes the slanderous marking would take place.
More later: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 587
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 169.253.4.21
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
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When a person refuses to fall in line with all the Carl Stevens teaching or completely dedicate themselves to promoting the program of Carl Stevens (instead of God's program), they can get the marking treatment. If they ever speak up about false teaching within Greater Grace or any other mistreatment of people, they will get marked. GGWO considers anyone not fully submitted to them as evil and "off". They are considered divisive even when they are not. GGWO leaders in their hypocrisy when they mark someone will attempt to divide everyone they can against the one they mark. Personal and potentially embarrasing information shared in confidence can be publicly disclosed to turn others against the person they mark. Even outright lies are used sometimes in these cases. Point is many friendships, marriages, and bonds between loved ones have been wrecked because of GGWO's divisive marking of those they don't like. Of course Scripture is twisted to justify this. All this done by a "church" that names the Name of Christ. The word cult is far more accurate. How this group divides people over loyalty to its leaders and their man made programs and teachings is sickening.
My general story is coming up soon.
SIDETHORN |
gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)
Advanced Member
Username: gone_to_pa
Post Number: 598
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.78.110.27
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:57 pm: |
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Wow Sidethorn,
After all that, and now the Lord has you here to let everyone know how easy it is to be deceived. The part that struck me was that this church GGWO had all the ear markings of a regular Evangelical Church of our times. But as soon as you start to dig a little deeper, a wolf in sheeps clothing. Thank you for sharing. I wonder how many others have like stories. I will share mine at a later date. Please folks, this is your chance to agree as in two or three witnesses with what Sidethorn has said. Can anyone say they have had a similiar experience? thanks again Sidethorn. Your friend Gone to PA.
Also just in case your new here, Dave Munson has posted two very good sights that will really give you an up to date look at what is going on presently and what has happened in the past. Thank you David and Cordell! your brother Gone to PA
(Message edited by Gone to PA on February 02, 2006) |
david_munson (david_munson)
Senior Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 2165
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 65.140.246.177
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:32 pm: |
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For those interested in what actually took place to try to bring correction in the doctrinal errors and spiritual abuse issues,
www.discussggwo.org
has a good informational link under "archives."
On page two you can see the "Sandy Cove" documents that discuss in detail the issues at hand that remain uncorrected to this day.
} |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 588
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:21 pm: |
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The rest of my story:
As more and more false teaching was uncovered and the GGWO pastors sought more and more control over the people, I could see and end coming to my GGWO days. I had to tell the kids I befriended the truth which they asked me for instead of preach the false teaching that my branch pastor and youth leader insisted I preach to everyone. At the same time, I decided for the kid's sakes on the car rides and especially the long ones to allow rock music in my own car. That worked fine until the youth leader and others started to brainwash the same friend that introduced me to GGWO in the first place. That friend of mine was confused about rock music due to GGWO's undue influence over him. Then they had him spy on me and the kids in my car. This guy ratted me out over the rock music to the youth leader and I was immediately suspended. After a conference and GGWO trying to force a gag order on me to never tell anyone anything contrary to Carl Stevens teaching, I resigned for a while in protest. Then the kids begged me to come back so I talked my way back in after a few months. Things went okay for a while until the pastor there became even more controlling than before. The youth leader also became more controlling too as he constantly kissed up to this pastor.
Next post: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 589
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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Since I never did agree with Carl Stevens and all the false teaching there, I soon became a marked man. The pastor knew I didn't agree with Carl and would never practice his false teachings in my personal life. He became more and more resentful of this by the day.
Since this pastor was such a tyrant trying to cram all the Carl Stevens crap down the kids' throats and alienated quite a few, many kids kept their distance from him. Since I always tried to give the kids moral support, encouragement, love, attention, understanding and the truth instead, the kids would hang with me instead of the pastor. As the youth leader became more like the pastor, the kids avoided him more and more too. Unfortunately this pastor became very jealous over all this and concocted a false report that I was some kind of pervert only there to make friends with wrong motives and would teach falsehood to them. He talked the youth leader into joining him in slandering me all over the church and in the local community with this falsehood. This jealous pastor also had the youth leader fire me over the phone and permenantly banned me from the group. All this for standing up for the truth and being there for young people in their time of need.
This is classic GGWO marking treatment that has happened to hundreds of others over the years. If the GGWO pastor doesn't like you, he tries to turn everyone he can against you with slanderous lies and gossip. All this from a 'church' that claims to be the best and the pinnacle of truth in modern times.
More: |
sidethorn (sidethorn)
Advanced Member
Username: sidethorn
Post Number: 590
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 158.59.27.31
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
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Since being tossed from GGWO, I still minister to some of the kids to this day. Fortunately God was able to use me to rescue them from the GGWO cult before more damage was done. Some kids have emotional scars from all the alienation, rejection, and condemnation at Greater Grace. May God heal them!!
In conclusion, GGWO is a very deceptive cult cleverly disguised as a born again evangelical church that preaches 'grace'. Sadly the leaders actions don't line up with their words. Hypocrisy, dirty politics, power games, double standards, very conditional 'love' and devastating rejection of people who don't fit in is the norm at GGWO. Many people are decieved and brainwashed there. They think leaving the church and thinking for themselves is leaving God's will and sinful. What a horrible way to entrap people in a place where they can be exploited for the leaders. People have been taken advantage of and manipulated to serve the leaders' whims instead of God's purposes for way too long. Greater Grace must be exposed. Peoples' lives and reputations depend on it. Please share your stories here so more can be set free and live that abundant life Christ has for them.
SIDETHORN |
lmao (lmao)
Intermediate Member
Username: lmao
Post Number: 229
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.251.144.6
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:18 pm: |
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One of the most important lessons I learned from the GG experience is that all leaders are sinners and need accountability in their churches.
While GG could have been a healthy church had the leader not used certain doctrines to grant himself a provision for his flesh, God was faithful to His Word it seems since the CHS' sin has found him out and he is apparently reaping what he has sown. CHS always taught that only God holds leaders accountable. The "only" part is wrong, but God has apparently held him accountable.
I also take what I have seen as a personal warning to not use grace or some other doctrine as a license to sin. |
fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)
Intermediate Member
Username: fooled_no_more
Post Number: 102
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 66.112.85.173
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:46 pm: |
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