| Author | Message | ||
     davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 140 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
Yahshua left everything behind to enter His public ministry. His family thought He was crazy. (Mark 3:21) Paul says in Philippians 2 that Yahshua "emptied Himself" and "took on the form of a slave"..."obedient unto death". And Paul exhorted those who would follow Him to "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus". The Twelve apostles gave up everything to follow Him, unlike the young ruler who went away sad. Yahshua told the "little flock" in Luke 12 that they had to give up everything to follow Him. Yahshua told the "great multitudes" in Luke 14:26-33 that no one could possibly be His disciple who did not hate his life in this world, and give up all of His possessions. Then, in the very next verse, He stated that if "salt" (the Gospel) loses its saltiness, it is not even fit for the manure pile. Then, after His death and resurrection, Yahshua commanded the apostles to make disciples by teaching all who would receive them to obey everything that He had commanded them..... To be continued.... | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 142 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
On the day of Pentecost, the apostles obeyed His command... and in response to their "re-presentation" of Yahshua's commands, 3,000 surrendered their lives and all they possessed, lands, houses, everything...at the feet of the apostles and the community of those who had done the same. They were all "willing"...and if they were not willing, they were not immersed. All gave all, because it was not optional to do so. Two people were not willing to give all, but lied to the Holy Spirit and pretended that they were willing...and the Most High took their life, as an example of what a serious thing it is to tamper with the Gospel. Paul also "suffered the loss of all things, and considered it all dung" . He says plainly that he did so, "in order to gain Christ". The clear implication is, that if he had not been willing to suffer the loss of all things, He would not have been able to "gain Christ".(Phil. 3) And Paul commanded Timothy, when evangelizing those who were "rich in this world" and had not yet "laid hold of eternal life"...that he was to command them to be willing to distribute their wealth and become part of the common life with the brothers, in order to do so. If you want the real Yahshua, you have to be willing to empty yourself of everything that has a hold on your heart...and as He said plainly in Matt. 6 and Luke 12, where your treasure is, that is where your heart is. If you say you know Him, and are not willing to obey His commandments, then you are a liar and the truth is not in you. That is the plain statement of John. (1 John 2:4) I think it is better to agree with Yahshua, and the Twelve, and HIs requirements for the Little Flock, and the Great Multitudes, and what was required of the 3,000, and the others that came in in Acts 4, and of Paul, and of everyone else... After all, it is His words all will be judged by on the Last Day....you won't be judged by your own reasonings by which you explain away His words. Sincerely, David davidderush@yahoo.com http://www.TheLitmusTest.org | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 434 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.31 |
Guess what Alexander? Thats exactly what Im doing! THE TWELVE TRIBES ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES!!!!!!! | ||
| freefall (freefall) Junior Member Username: freefall Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.174.93.101 |
Paul never knew Yashua. Love to all, Freefall | ||
| freefall (freefall) Junior Member Username: freefall Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.174.93.101 |
No one knows who wrote any of the gospels in the bible. I for one don't dnow what Paul's agenda was. Love to all freefall | ||
| johncolo_springs (johncolo_springs) Intermediate Member Username: johncolo_springs Post Number: 276 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.64.1.41 |
Hi David Alexander. I enjoyed meeting you and your wife, and our conversations over the table were rich. I am also curious to hear your response to David Pike here. Yes, what about those at Rose Creek who are following Yahshua's teachings together and have forsaken all to follow Him? Why are they disqualified in your estimation? --John | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
Although I agree that the TT are doing some of what is commanded of a "holy nation", they are still corrupt, manipulative, deceitful, and arrogant. Rose creek villiage sounds much more like a ligit, non-corrupt religous community making a simple life for themselves while not making prophetic notions about their future. Again DD- Why do you come here when everybody that posts here already knows of the phonies in the TT "upper management" and already have your so called holy nations number? p.s. remember the advice about false prophets everyone so you arent decieved! | ||
| visitor2000 (visitor2000) Intermediate Member Username: visitor2000 Post Number: 132 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 209.112.151.114 |
it is indeed your corruption, manipulation, deceitfullness and arrogance that is forthcoming... this is why you come here hope_20.... selah | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 143 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
Hello, John. I thoroughly enjoyed being with you and your wife also. I cut this from the "response to the NEIRR". I posted this to you last year, if you remember. ------------------ God wants a Holy Nation for the purpose of showing forth to the rest of the Nations His true character as a witness that He sent the Son, and loves them just as He loved Him....and once that witness shines the light of His salvation to the ends of the earth, then Messiah will return to bring an end to this wicked age, and establish His reign. That is God's purpose; that is His "Mind"; that is what His Spirit is totally focused on, John, in our view; and His Spirit is focused on nothing else. People like the Bruderhofers (or Rose Creek) who live together and share everything, but whose purpose differs from this...all they are is close counterfeits, that divert sincere souls into wasting their lives on things that are not our Father's heart. Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. He is looking for those who will forsake all to take on His Mind and purposes...which He imparts via His Spirit. The Gospel does demand the context of a common life...but it also demands that common life be motivated and filled with His prophetic purpose..which is the only form His love can take in this wicked age. Forsaking all for love is inseparable from forsaking all to take on our Father's mind and purposes...for His Purpose to bring an end to this age, IS the only loving thing...the only real answer for this dying world. -------------- John, I will comment further on the following post. (The 2.5 K limit on posts is a little hard on long-winded people like me.) Sincerely, David | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 437 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.86 |
v2000, your as about as Yahshua like as the Pharisee in the Temple... You'd fit right into the upper echelon of the TT... | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 144 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
Anyway, John, I would just say that the Most High, ever since the call of Abraham, has had a single-minded purpose, that His Spirit is totally behind. That purpose has always been, and still is, to raise up a set-apart "ethnos" or Nation of Twelve Tribes, to be a light to all the other nations of the world, and a witness of His true character, in order for Him to be able to righteously fulfill the covenant He made with Abraham; obtain a Bride for His Son; and bring about the end of this wicked age. That is what His Spirit is doing, John. This is our Father's magnificent obsession. There are many groups, in and out of Christianity, that live together and share their stuff. But God does not look on the outward appearance; He looks on the heart...he examines the motives of men's hearts. And only those who have surrendered all to take on His prophetic purpose are being moved by His Spirit. An essential feature of this set-apart Nation the Father is raising up, is that it is "one", not many; united, not divided. Messiah cannot be divided. A divided house or nation cannot stand, and will not stand. The idea that someone could make a solemn covenant with a People devoted to the above purpose...break it, then continually trash those people and their leaders and their high and holy purpose....and be welcomed by another group...and that such a group would have the same Spirit that we do??....is clearly impossible. I don't think that Rose Creek, or the Bruderhof, or the Hutterians...or JPUSA...or any other group that lives together...say, the Franciscans...or the Little Sisters of the Poor...whoever...I think it is evident that none of them have the same Spirit or prophetic purpose that we have. What moves and motivates us is totally unique...we are the only ones...for the simple reason that our Father's purpose is to raise up a People who are one, and not divided. Our Father's Spirit is not behind raising up many different groups that speak many different things (That is Christianity's folly). There is One Lord, One Body, One Faith, one Baptism...one God and Father of all. Not many. He desires a people who are One in mind and heart, who have no divisions among them, but who all speak the same things, because they are all surrendered to the same Spirit and prophetic purpose. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 155 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Hope 20, if you speak truth and the truth makes others uncomfortable they will cut you down, or ignore you. I have asked many questions that have been ignored like for example about the corrupt finances of the Twelve Tribes. A man who puts his head in the sand sees only sand. After awhile he cannot breathe and so withdraws and sees the living and breathing world again. He sees something in that world that frightens him and so he puts his head in the sand again. His life is now in great danger again , since he cannot protect himself because he cannot see. People who remain in the tribes choose information selectively and ignore what is threatening to the paradigm they have chosen. They especially ignore evidence that they have seen with their own eyes, you might compare this with the blocks that people put up to protect themselves from painful memories such as child abuse. It is a survival technique that severely endangers their physical, spiritual, and mental health. It also allows others in "leadership" to have total control over their lives 24/7. Scary. | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
V2k i have known the tribes long before you have. if you are so sure of their faulty ways go and join them yourself- or go for a weeks stay. until you are fully aquainted with their inner workings your statements hold no value to me. Beware of the false prophets the bible warns us about! Don't slip back into the lies! | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
And why then o holy v2k, do you come here then? hippocrite! | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
V2k i have known the tribes long before you have. if you are so sure of their faulty ways go and join them yourself- or go for a weeks stay. until you are fully aquainted with their inner workings your statements hold no value to me. Beware of the false prophets the bible warns us about! Don't slip back into the lies! | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 145 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
It is amazing to me that a woman can totally slander a wonderful man....just brazenly slander him, by saying something so totally off the wall as "Why does Yoneq need a Swiss bank account?" .....when she has not one shred of true reason for, or evidence of, such a ridiculous charge....and still imagine herself as a "vessel of truth". That is truly "scary". Does it ever occur to you people that you will have to give an account of every idle word you speak to God? Do you know that of the things listed in Proverbs as things that God hates and that are abomination to Him, slanderers and talebearers and gossips lead the list? Does it ever occur to you that when you speak such slander and lies against Yoneq and the brothers who lead us, you are tearing down real human beings, who thousands of us love deeply? It is real people you are slandering, who we know and have lived with and suffered with...and who we are very much in love with. We are one with them...and they with us. Anyone who knows Yoneq at all, in or out of the Tribes, members or ex-members....no one with any sense thinks that Yoneq is stashing money away. He wears thrift store clothing...and gives it all away every time he moves, and just goes to a thrift store in his new location and spends $50.00 or so to buy a "new wardrobe"... LOL.... As I type this, I am wearing some of his own clothes that he gave to me. Lookatall, all your posts do is reveal the ugliness of the spirits of the accuser of the brethren...there is no real sense in them, even to most people who have been in the Tribes and have left. If we don't tend to answer your "questions" that you throw at us, that are actually accusations, not questions...it is only because we (as Vis2000 has said) generally don't feel a need to defend ourselves against accusers...God is our defender. But this kind of slander is the reason why I don't have a good conscience to post here regularly. Every time I come here, I feel like I need to take a shower afterwards. So once again, I will leave you all to your discussions.... If anyone here wants to discuss anything further with me, feel free to email me privately, as a number of you already do. Sincerely, David Derush davidderush@yahoo.com | ||
| anon_e_mus (anon_e_mus) Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 336 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 141.150.211.206 |
Welcome back, David Derush! David Pike- David Derush mentioned "I don't think that Rose Creek, or the Bruderhof, or the Hutterians...or JPUSA...or any other group that lives together...say, the Franciscans...or the Little Sisters of the Poor...whoever...I think it is evident that none of them have the same Spirit or prophetic purpose that we have. What moves and motivates us is totally unique...we are the only ones...for the simple reason that our Father's purpose is to raise up a People who are one, and not divided. " David Pike, is he right? Is Rose Creek divided? Do you know what he's referring to? Thanks! | ||
| johncolo_springs (johncolo_springs) Intermediate Member Username: johncolo_springs Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.64.1.41 |
David Derush said, "I don't think that Rose Creek, or the Bruderhof, or the Hutterians...or JPUSA...or any other group that lives together...say, the Franciscans...or the Little Sisters of the Poor...whoever...I think it is evident that none of them have the same Spirit or prophetic purpose that we have. What moves and motivates us is totally unique...we are the only ones...for the simple reason that our Father's purpose is to raise up a People who are one, and not divided." Thanks David for your response to my question. I'll have to admit that it struck a chord with me and reminded me of what I saw in TT a few years back when I decided to move in. I saved something that I wrote Ephraim (Chanan) in response to his inquiry as to what had brought me to the point of surrender. I feel like sharing it here for discussion: Here's my letter below dated, circa October 2004: | ||
| johncolo_springs (johncolo_springs) Intermediate Member Username: johncolo_springs Post Number: 278 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.64.1.41 |
...cont from above Yes Ephraim, I would be glad to share some specifics. I had asked you to help me have a reason to believe why TT was set apart from all other groups out there who also espoused the doctrine of sharing all things common and each member giving up everything like the book of Acts. How TT was distinct from others. What made TT stand out as the genuine people of God with His true authority. As I was reading the TT web sight I was enlightened with something. I shared it with Naboth the other night. I realized that what makes TT "special" and true in comparison to all other Christian communities on the market right now is its willingness to take the risk of preaching and teaching the whole gospel and not just part. I have researched many "Christian" communities over the past year and visited one in Missouri for two nights called Shepherdsfield. I Also have been in email contact with one in northern Minnesota called Ben Israel. I Have read fairly extensively about the Bruderhof and the Hutterites, etc. The lightbulb that went off in my head and heart were these two facts: All of these communities seem to be void of the mission of filling the earth with their life and culture like the TT are. They seem, for the most part to be focused on themselves in their locale—a kind of “us four and no more” syndrome. But more importantly, they believe that one can be a Christian by being part of the churches. They believe it is ok not to be part of a community if one so chooses, and still be a born-again child of God. The TT will not accept this and is what makes TT distinct and set apart from all others. In other words, I have noticed that only the TT hold to the strict standards of Christ when it comes to discipleship and true conversion. All the others seem to have been given over to some kind of compromise by saying that if a person outside of their community wants to, then it is ok for them to go to church and say a “repeat-after-me” prayer, and go home and practice Christianity and be ok. TT is the only group who is sticking out their neck and saying, “wait a minute, not so!” TT quotes the words of Christ and holds to that standard, and is therefore exposed to the possibility of persecution. Well, Ephraim, I want to be a part of a people who hold to the standard of Christ too. | ||
| johncolo_springs (johncolo_springs) Intermediate Member Username: johncolo_springs Post Number: 279 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.64.1.41 |
...cont. from above: As I was reading the TT web sight I realized that I have been a dislocated elect one. I identify with all that is being taught at TT. I feel a kinship. I have been a “waiter” and have felt this dislocated feeling, not knowing where my people were and where my home is. We can talk more sometime soon. I await your reply.--John | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 439 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.33 |
John, As soon as the TT brought in the spirit of your wrong, we are right; they lost there love and became judges. The leaven of the proud... It was over as soon as they became the "Holier than Thou!". Is this stance not the act of defending them selves? I thought their actions would speak louder than their words of condemnation! John, you know better than to fall into their spell of words. LOOK AT THE FRUIT! ALOT OF ITS ON THIS BOARD! Bitter hurt people with their faiths shattered and families torn apart by this group! Cmon John! Snap out of it!!! Funny how Derush didnt warn v2000 of there danger of going to the lake of fire for eternity because he or she is not under the protection of God outside the "Body". Well, Dracula had a servant that he didnt want to become one of his cuz this servant could get away with alot more than another vampire, LIKE WALK IN THE LIGHT!!! Now I agree that Yoneq would never stash cash for himself, but he has a bad habit of spending it on properties and businesses before taking care of his flock. "The idea that someone could make a solemn covenant with a People devoted to the above purpose...break it, then continually trash those people and their leaders and their high and holy purpose....and be welcomed by another group...and that such a group would have the same Spirit that we do??....is clearly impossible." Your absolutely right! It is impossible because the TT doesnt posses the forgiving and loving Spirit of Yahshua! Their love is CONDITIONAL!!! | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 146 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
John, I appreciate your response to my post...and the insight and heart in what you wrote to Ephraim. It remains to be seen if we (the TT) will actually follow through and fulfill fully our Father's prophetic purpose. All hell is against us, for sure. But to me, it is beyond question that the prophetic purpose that we are laboring night and day to fulfill, is in fact what the Holy Spirit was poured out for on the day of Pentecost. It also find it key, John, what you so honestly acknowledge in your post; the true set-apart People of God must be those who "are the only ones"....they must be a People that are the dwelling place of the Spirit, and that one cannot just leave them and go one's own way, or start or join another group with another anointing, that speaks different things...and even speaks against His People...and still have the Spirit of God be with you. Yahshua said plainly, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life...and no one comes to the Father, except by Me".... As C.S. Lewis said about Yahshua, anyone who could say such a thing, is either who they say they are...or they are devils from hell...or insane. Darkness is coming in like a flood...the Evil One knows his time is short...and the Father is raising up a standard against the darkness. The Restoration of all things is dawning. And the People of that Restoration will be a People, ONE People, not many...who will be able to say with authority, just what Yahshua did...since they are truly His People...they will be those who say boldly, "we are the Body of Yahshua...we are, in Him, the Way, the Truth and the Life...and no one comes to the Father, except through us". They will be the most polarizing People to ever walk the earth. I believe the Twelve Tribes are the seed that is going to grow into that People that will become the "Stone Kingdom" that will proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom in all the world as a witness to all nations. No one else I have seen or heard of has the kind of prophetic purpose and vision to become so...and that is not brag, it is just the plain fact of it. And the love of the Father is found there....but only for those willing to pay the price. Yahshua is not the namby pamby one...He did not welcome people who were unwilling to pay the price to follow Him...He set a standard and held to it. So do we. Sincerely, David | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 442 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.35 |
"It remains to be seen if we (the TT) will actually follow through and fulfill fully our Father's prophetic purpose. All hell is against us, for sure. But to me, it is beyond question that the prophetic purpose that we are laboring night and day to fulfill, is in fact what the Holy Spirit was poured out for on the day of Pentecost." So you admit to working to fulfill prophecy? Isnt that like fixing a race? YOU have the audacity to say that YOU will bring about the fullfillment of prophecy? How arrogant! I have yet to see the Holy Spirit manifested amoungst you with power! You must be doing something wrong! The Holy Spirit brought in 3000 in one day! Hows your freepapers doing? How is your light shining to where it draws in those seeking? Wheres your fruit? Once you realize its not your works or you putting yourself back under the law,(which you pick and choose) is not going to bring about prophecy or the return of our Messiah! Its LOVE!!! not judgement, pride, fear and worthlessness thats going to bring in the lost! I pray our Abba opens your eyes to the hypocricy delusions and lies you sell as the heart and mind of Yahshua... | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 147 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
Yahshua gave Himself for a purpose...as Paul says plainly in Titus: ...Yahshua Messiah, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. (Titus 2:14) Yahshua's prophetic mission was to bring forth a set-apart Nation of 12 Tribes, that by their life of love and unity would proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom in all the world as a witness to all Nations, that the end of this wicked age may come. Like Yahshua, and like Paul, we have surrendered ourselves to that Spirit and purpose. We have surrendered ourselves to walk in the works prepared for us, to be that set-apart People that will bring about the end. By that Spirit and purpose, we "strive according to His working, which works in us mightily". It is not arrogant to surrender all to fulfill the purpose for which one was created...it is the true definition of humility. What is arrogant, and full of "hypocrisy, delusions and lies"..is to make a solemn covenant with Yahshua, to live completely for such a purpose with such a people...break that covenant three or four times...the last time leaving, slander relentlessly in public those who had laid down their lives for you for years....then, make a public confession of remorse, requesting to come back...promising that "this time", your word will mean something; and also confessing that you don't deserve to be taken back, and even if you are not taken back, you will stay off the internet and never speak against our Father's people and purpose again....and when you are not taken back, (because the Spirit made plain your word is worthless..) you prove correct the judgment against you, by breaking your promise to stay off the internet and stop speaking against us...and your word held you in check for what?...an hour or two? And yet you imagine yourself to be a victim of unfair treatment. I find that amazing. What would Paul have to say about you? (continued on next post..) | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 148 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
What is arrogant, and full of "hypocrisy, delusions and lies"..is to make a solemn covenant with Yahshua, to live completely for such a purpose with such a people...break that covenant three or four times...the last time leaving, slander relentlessly in public those who had laid down their lives for you for years....then, make a public confession of remorse, requesting to come back...promising that "this time", your word will mean something; and also confessing that you don't deserve to be taken back, and even if you are not taken back, you will stay off the internet and never speak against our Father's people and purpose again....and when you are not taken back, (because the Spirit made plain your word is worthless..) you prove correct the judgment against you, by breaking your promise to stay off the internet and stop speaking against us...and your word held you in check for what?...an hour or two? And yet you imagine yourself to be a victim of unfair treatment. I find that amazing. What would Paul have to say about you? "Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11) We didn't condemn you...you condemned yourself, by your own divisiveness and unwillingness to stand by your word...over and over and over again. That is the fact of the matter. And then, you continue to speak against the true purpose and People of God, without limit, whether as a self-admitted hedonist...or as a "reformed" Christian communalist...who has now "found the true Way". You are the definition of arrogance, Mr. Pike. And every slanderous word you continue to pour forth, will stand as your judge on the Day of Judgment. For your own sake, you should really restrain yourself, if you can. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
D. Derush- Is it not customary to forgive, even 77 times? David can speak out against the injustices of the tribes whilst caring about many of the people there. He is NOT attacking Gods "purpose", he is trying to bring to light the many hidden and unspoken problems both you and I know exist(though you probably wont ever admit it). He had been in the community a long time, much longer than you-- and knows what he's talking about. If the TT injustices were really non existent slander as you say, he wouldnt be in so much pain over leaving. He means no harm to God or anyone, so please, act to be what you claim you are. Don't resort back to personall comments. Everyone here just wants to be healed and spread the truth about what we witnessed within the community. | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 444 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.18 |
Thanks Hope! I almost started to condemn myself again as this "loving set-apart person" of the TT does. ""Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11)" I was never, ever divisive while I was in the Tribes. I never caused any trouble, I was dependable, gave myself to the anointing and honored my shepherds and was a joy to cover! You dont even know me Derush! I can guarentee if you spoke to any who lived with me that I was loving and loved. How dare you call me divisive! If it were up to the people I lived, loved and worked with there, I would be there now. They forgave me for leaving and wanted me back! But nooooo! I offended Yoneq! I bruised his pride when I went to Bob Pardon for help! EUGENE ELBERT SPRIGGS WOULD NOT FORGIVE ME! YAHSHUA DID!!! Derush, dont you see what you just said and did to me? Actually, according to the teachings of Yoneqs annointing, you just commited murder with your tounge. Would the Son of God do such a thing to one who begged for forgiveness with all his heart? "Yahshua's prophetic mission was to bring forth a set-apart Nation of 12 Tribes" I'd like to read where He said this... Not Paul or James either... "It is not arrogant to surrender all to fulfill the purpose for which one was created...(to love your brother as Yahshua loved us)it is the true definition of humility." Your right! That is what the people of Rose Creek Village are doing. What they are not doing is claiming to be the only ones with the Holy Spirit and the only way to God which the TT does! THATS ARROGANCE!!! And about that covenant... Your right again! I did make it with Yahshua and thats who I follow and serve. Not some deluded southern baptist wantabe minister who thinks he has the corner on the Holy Spirit. I suggest you heed your own words about slandering... But I forgive you David, and so does your wife and son whom you abandoned. Your just under the spell of a mad man... I forgive him also. I just pray he stops hurting Gods loved ones and their families with his delusion of grandeur and his blatant passive narcissism... (Message edited by nabashalam on January 28, 2006) | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.112.150.27 |
for the skae of messiah naba... put your hand over your mouth... let he who has not sinned cast the first stone? how many ex-wives do you have naba? derush lost his wife and son to the the world... do you think this not to be a painfull thing for him? many of us are here for that same reason... it is DIFFICULT to forsake ALL to follow messiah... ALL... i am encouraged that derush can make such a covenant even under such circumstances... and I know he labored in love for many years to find a place to dwell with his family... and as head of his family and in messiah he made a covenant... they did not... if they reject their head... who are they rejecting? one must forsake ALL... yes a most difficult place and source of much controversy and pain for many... yet it MUST be done... no one here can speak the truth about the community except derush... it is he who wields the sword of the spirit which is the word of god... and this place is indeed in desperate need of his exhortation, faith and prayer... it is demonstrated on a level many here attained to reach and either fell away or were cast out... the 'eschelon' you speak of naba are the elect... a grace 'naba' you did not attain... and still have not... and you will be bitter about it till your death... again i say as in proverbs - put your hand over your mouth... and maybe you will begin to see and hear as you once did... selah | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.112.150.27 |
and i am thankfull derush exhorted us here as to why you are no longer there... it has been clear to me by your posts and your online diary for over a year... this is not an issue of forgiveness.. it is an issue of your WORD naba... you broke it many many many times... perhaps if you had stayed true to your word as a servant of god... you would have found the forgiveness you did seek.... yet you continue to sow darkness and speak against the holy ones of god? this is such foolishness... put your hand over your mouth... for the love of god! | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 149 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
Mr. Pike, Your plea for forgiveness and professions of repentance could not have been any more real than your admission that you didn't deserve to come back, and your solemn vow to stay off the internet and never speak against us or our leaders again even if you were not permitted to come back. By what possible reasoning can you maintain that your word of repentance was sincere, and something you would have stood by...when it was immediately evident, and still is evident, that your promise to stay off the internet and never speak against us or our leaders again....that that promise was utterly worthless? Your continual attempted strategy to try to draw a distinction between our leaders, and especially Yoneq, on the one hand, and all the rest of us, on the other hand...while claiming to not be divisive, involves such willful blindness that it is astonishing. What is the chief strategy of the evil one against God's People? Smite the shepherd, and then the sheep scatter. You continually slander the very man who is responsible (by God's grace) for raising us up as a People...the very man who loved you dearly and gave you chance after chance after chance till you proved yourself totally unworthy...you continually slander and mock and tear him down in public...and yet you imagine you are not the very definition of one is divisive, who "sows discord among brethren"??? Perhaps you were not that way when you were with us...but that is not the point. You left. By your own plain admission, you left because you wanted to shirk the cross and indulge your flesh in hedonistic pursuits. And you set about slandering us to justify yourself. What have you become since you left? You have become the very definition of a divisive mocker. And you seem completely unwilling to restrain yourself. Woe to you. You are making yourself such a man as the Word says plainly our Father "hates" and is "an abomination to Him' (Proverbs 6:19) We love Yoneq, and all our leaders. We live with them and see them pour their lives out for us daily. You are kidding yourself to imagine you can mock our leaders while still "loving" the rest of us. (continued on the next post) | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.112.150.27 |
derush is certainly right that evil is mounting up on all sides... this by far is one of those 'sides'... you ask why i come here and it is to face such... and defend a people who will only exhort you, pray for you and lead you in faith... so that i TOO may be a target of your accusations... your judgements... and other works of darkness... i freely put myself here to be attacked on ALL sides... it mearly shows how many have fallen... fallen so far that perhaps without the lights that are rising on this earth now there would be NO salvation at all for any of us... yet as clear as these lights are... and in their struggles those who are gathering the tribes of israel are OVERCOMMING.... and my last year here with this place has shown me quite the opposite of what is occurring in the gathering... i have watched even those like randy a man full of kindness and seeking deeply begin to question the path that messiah called us to... and this is a great grievance to me... even schmuel who once defended a people as i do turned to attack them... it is truely sad to see the evil mounting and it is only getting WORSE... and it will continue to... until those who have been called can be chosen as well... and not become even more lost in the world and more consumed by the darkness they seek to rid... yet i am encouraged by jenny who has truely walked the difficult path and come to see and understand her own humility... ap ath that many here still strugle with... and i pray for truth_seeker as i know she faces a similar path that derush once did... but all you others who bring nothing but slander and hate... what is one to do but hope to point out your path is not the one of salvation? that you are not producing the fruit of such? yet you call me a judge? a tree is known by its fruit... judgement has nothing to do with it... do not the angels minister to those who are on the path to salvation? is the path so narrow that so many can not keep the ballance it requires? selah | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 150 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
As for the prophetic vision and purpose of the Twelve Tribes...your mockery of that is even more serious, (if that is possible) than your mockery of our leaders. Paul's whole ministry to the Gentiles was rooted in the prophetic mission to raise up the Twelve Tribes of Jacob...a spiritual Israel: 1) In Acts 13:47 Paul took his stand on Isaiah 49:6 (quoted above) to justify his ministry to the Gentiles; and 2) In Acts 26:6-7 Paul took his stand with that twelve-tribed “foolish nation” and its mission: A full explanation of this is at: http://www.twelvetribes.com/publications/foolish-nation.html And Paul's mission and prophetic revelation and purpose, as he plainly states, was received by revelation from our Master Yahshua Himself, and only confirmed by the apostolic council in Jerusalem. (Galatians 1) When you mock our leaders, and mock our prophetic purpose, Mr. Pike, you are guilty of mocking all of us in the Tribes...and especially, you are directly mocking our Master Yahshua. To imagine you can mock our Master Yahshua, His prophetic purpose, our leaders He has anointed, and us, His People, on this board and all over the internet...while still "serving Yahshua" in Tennessee, or anywhere else...is to be so deluded that there are really no words for it. Since you have by your own actions burned your bridges to the Life you deliberately left, I do understand, and do not fault you for trying to find some meaning and purpose for your life outside of the Tribes. I wish you well in that effort. But seriously, you should take to heart the admonition of Gamaliel to the Sanhedrin...and find your purpose and meaning for yourself, apart from lifting your tongue in slander against our Master Yahshua, His prophetic purpose, His anointed leaders, or His People. You only harm yourself when you do that. You would do better to not lift your hand or heart or tongue against us...if you realize, deep in your innermost heart, that there is even the remotest chance that we are our Father's People. I say this as one who wishes you had made different choices; and who would like to see you do as well as you can under the circumstances in which you find yourself...which are of your own making, not Yoneq's. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.112.150.27 |
it is indeed clear... and is becoming more clear each day those who truely follow the messiah and those who do not... the lights are indeed rising and the narrow path is not an EASY one... yes those who truely call out to god WILL be lead here to these people... a people gathering into the tribes of israel... so that you may be TESTED... and indeed it is the greatest of all tests... the most difficult path and call anyone could ever answer... it is the path to meet our destiny.... to fullfill our purpose as a human race created to live peacefully with the one who created us... to be of ONE mind... ONE heart... ONE spirit... ONE body... i dont see this at RCV or any other gatherings occuring... i see this only at the one place GOD decreed his... the only nation god called to be his own... the twelve tribes of israel! yes many have fallen away... many have been sent away... take this time to heal... look inwardly... completely... halt your outward searches... there is too much evil... too much chance teaching and wavering doctrine... we can not do this alone... and the evil one prays on us in our disconnectedness... as we go to our empty homes... and live in our apartments and travel around by ourselves... this is not our calling... no it is NOT easy... and anyone who has or is being gathered will tell you this... and THAT is the truth of it.... it is and will NOT be easy to fullfill our destinies... bring peace to earth and this age ruled by darkness... selah | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.112.150.27 |
by the way, my posts were not intended to intertwine with derush's... it appears we were posting at the same time... i meant them to be as all one continuous post (as there is a limit now to how much can be posted each time)... yet it may look like i was responding to each one... as i would post one... i was moved to post some more... and at the same time he was also posting... and so on and so on... peace to all... | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 447 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.69 |
Peace to all? hmmmm If I could only believe that... Mr. David Alexander, How many covenants have you made to God, Jesus, Yahshua and your wife that YOU have broken? How many communities did you make a covenant to the end and leave? I am thankful to our Father for opening my eyes to the framed picture I was in. I left following His guidance. Im also thankful my subconscious mind had me burn the bridge back to the TT for it knew of the chance of me falling under the wicked spell you cast, which I did once again. I almost started to feel guilty and fearful from your aspersions. The same fear and guilt that holds your cult together and enslaved me for years and continues to do so to the several thousand members still there. You dont have love there! You have fear and dominant submission! The people there take on the "anointing" for fear of damnation and as a defense mechanism only in order to survive in that environment. All else is buried and pushed down because its to painful to look at! I will not post on this thread or even acknowledge your posts anywhere else again. Watch me keep my word on this one Derush...( I know that the act of ignoring someone is taught in the TT to be the highest form of hate, but in this case, it is strictly a healthy move, spiritually, mentally and physically on my part and a attempt to maintain the healing spirit of this board. And I do not wish you peace.(especially the counterfeit blessing of peace v2k5 liberally spreads on all those he just spit on) I pray the Holy Spirit tortures your conscience until you truly see all the spiritual, mental and physical pain, fear, guilt and destruction you are causing with all your worthless, self important egos... "I say this as one who wishes you had made different choices; and who would like to see you do as well as you can under the circumstances in which you find yourself...which are of your own making." This is also my heart for you and all those still in the TT, until you actually see the cult you live, build and propagate in and escape from its unforgiving clutches. And when you do, there are many of us here that would love to help you live again... | ||
| schmuel (schmuel) Intermediate Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 393 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
hi folks, visitor, you really have not watched me properly on this forum. For a long time in a number of threads I have been consistently defending Twelve Tribes in many areas such as community and discipleship patterns, their resistance to statist intrusion, and their actions vis a vis the courts in a child support case, and more. On some issues I have raised questions/concerns/inquiries, like the rebaptisms and NT issues like the dating of James, and basically let it simply be discussed or not with minimal comment. On eschatology I listen with interest to learn, and shared little. And on other issues, going way back to the Hebrew thread, my first thread on this forum, I have pointed out what I see as weaknesses in the Twelve Tribes viewpoint. On that first thread it had to do with the supposed 'Hebrew' names inherited from the qodesh name movement. And more recent is the thread on the Jesus==zeus canard, a note that has been referenced in many Twelve Tribe articles on the web and print. For many years, from many groups, that error has been propagated, and to those who dunno its falsity it acts as a poisoning of the well against the name of Jesus, the name for Messiah given to us in our inspired scriptures in Greek and English. Visitor, it is my responsibility before Messiah to share on this even if it gets some harumphs and flak from yourself and any others, I will simply consider such flak an honor. So you may disagree with me, that is fully your right, on one point or on any point, if you are offended and feel I am not aligned with a Twelve Tribes viewpoint. However I have been consistent in the views I have shared here, by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ  Shalom, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 152 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 12.175.22.157 |
Personally, I would rather follow Yahshua. | ||
| andy_n (andy_n) Intermediate Member Username: andy_n Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.156.159.75 |
As David Alexander posited at the start of this thread, indeed I would rather follow Yahshua than anything or anyone else. That is precisely why I can not and will not join the "Twelve Tribes of Israel". They are too busy following ee sprigs, who I fully believe is sincere, loving and pouring out his life, but so is the Pope, and so is Billy Graham. Sincerity does not righteousnes make; neither does living in community with all things in common. David D, you speak of slander by those speaking out "against" you, yet since when is speaking the truth slander? Did Yahshua slander the Pharisees? If you were (or are) one, you can be sure He did. And if you think 'laying down your life daily for your brothers and sisters in community' is tough, you aught to try it out here for a while, yes, "outside the camp" (or is that copyrighted?). Living in your clans is a cake walk in comparison, but hey, Messiah promised trials and tribulations to his followers - including the ones being put to death in China and Africa for their faith in "the Living God and Jesus, His son". Oh, I forgot - the tribe of Wang doesn't exist. "go forth unto all nations..." According to an internet contact who was kind enough to share some corresepondance you had, David A wrote: "We don't have communities in Africa [ed note: or, as the questioner asked, China also], for the same reason that Paul did not try to establish communities outside the boundaries of the Roman Empire....without a certain basic level of civil order, the life of peace, love and unity that we build cannot exist." [emphasis mine] Um, who is building the kingdom? Are you saying God has no power to raise up "a people" elsewhere? And speaking of China, your "TheTwelveTribesarerealcommunities" group, entertains no criticism whatsoever, being a place not for the truth about YHWH or the tribes, or your life there, but the "Chinese truth" - only that which speaks kindly of the regime, which twists history and Scripture to justify what you want to hear and believe. How many have been given the boot for asking tough questions? Ah-so! *bows deeply* BTW, you still haven't answered this very simple "nitwit test" one: "is your faith in a place? or is it in the I AM"? No hedging, just answer the question! (more below) | ||
| andy_n (andy_n) Intermediate Member Username: andy_n Post Number: 141 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.156.159.75 |
David A, on repeated writings of yours, you state: "I answered your questions directly; you just don't like the answers." Yet as I and apparently a goodly number of others see it, "we question your answers directly, but you just don't like the questions", and you fall back into "we are it because we are proving we are it by how we define it, and because noone else defines it as we do, we have to be it." Oh yeah, that's convincing (to those with itching ears). Perhaps you can show us what Scripture says of pride, of exalting yourselves. Meanwhile, I'll get back to attempting to be a good steward and servant, right here among the nations where God in his infinite wisdom has placed me. "It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it" Naba may have said it before I did, but the Tribes are arrogant. Small wonder you are their internet "poster" child (oh no, another pun). Perhaps Yah can forgive me, for He knows my heart. I wonder not if you will forgive me, but if you'll answer the questions? David, including myself in this: there is none so blind as he who will not see, and where I err, I invite anyone to point it out with Scripture (in context). I very well can be wrong - have been before, will be again. Both of us can be servants of the Most High - even Judas Iscariot was working according to His purposes. So might you or I be, for some are raised up as vessels of honor, and some as vessels of dishonor, and perhaps only our moment before the Judge will reveal to us whom we really served. I fear that moment, because as Jeremiah wrote: "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?" As I see it, as your words show it, your heart, David Derush, is for the Tribes as built by and guided by "the anointing" of Yoneq, not for the Lord, who spoke harsh words for 'a proud and stiff necked people', just as Israel before you reveled in their covenant of the flesh. How is your covenant and claim any less of the flesh? Let me guess your answer: "come and visit, and see for yourself". I have, and I've seen, and that's why I ask. | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
I would rather follow Yeshua aswell, thats why i left Like andy said, sincerity does not mean they are "right" | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
"FACT NET STATEMENT Since 1993, we have been to destructive cults, fundamentalism, mind control, and mental coercion/torture what Amnesty International has been to physical torture.' There seem to be 2 categories of people on these message boards, with sub categories A , THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT THE TWELVE TRIBES ARE NOT A CULT 1. Current members of the TT who believe that Yoneq has the only revelation of Yashua ( or perhaps IS Yashua/) 2.Ex members of the TT who still believe the above 3. Ex members of the TT who look back with fondness at the group whilst questioning some of their doctrines. These are spirtual seekers who desire above all to know truth. 4.Those who believe that fact net's main purpose is to further spirtual seeking. B THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE TT ARE A CULT 1. Ex members who believe the TT are a cult 2. People who have had experience with other cults who believe that the TT are a cult. 3. People with strong Christian or other religious convictions who measure the statements of Mr Spriggs against Christian doctrine and find it wanting. 4.Spirtual seekers who desire above all to know truth. 5. Those who believe that fact nets main pupose is to prevent and heal cult activity whilst pursuing non cultic spiritual paths.. People who post on the board sometimes move around in these sub categories but do not shift much between A and B, except for the most dominating category, Those who either believe or disbelieve that the TT are a cult but are united by the deep relationships they formed through living in community and going through an extraordinary, but painful process together. Something like the bond between war veterans. When people leave a cult, this is what they miss. It is , unfortunately the most powerful tool in the bag of tricks used by cult leaders, that is apart from shame. | ||
| john_s (john_s) Member Username: john_s Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.254.222.123 |
--- and you fall back into "we are it because we are proving we are it by how we define it, and because noone else defines it as we do, we have to be it." --- That's a great summation of the round the rose bush logic the Tribes use in an attempt to elevate themselves above other religious groups. And "prophetic vision" just equals DOCTRINE. In the end, all David Alexander can point to as the defining litmus is "better" doctrines. And words on a page are all that other religious groups ultimately point to as well. And since in David's mind the only trustworty and true earthly spokeman of God currently living is Gene Spriggs, the doctrines Spriggs formulates will always be "better" than all others by definition. It's like the classic tautology... "The Bible is true because God wrote it, and I know He wrote it because it says so in the Bible." The Tribes are the chosen of God because their prophetic vision is true, and they know their prophetic vision is true because they are proclaiming it, and they are the chosen of God. David Alexander wrote: --- Darkness is coming in like a flood...the Evil One knows his time is short...and the Father is raising up a standard against the darkness. The Restoration of all things is dawning. --- Hey, I read this in a Freepaper published 20 years ago. It's been a long "dawn" I guess. You're like the Christian who believes that when Messiah said the coming of the Kingdom was "at hand", he meant 2000 years (and counting) in the future. Keep banging your head against that brick wall, Dave. From what I was told, you're getting a new, younger wife in the deal, so maybe it's all worth it for you. John S. | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 135 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.22.204.219 |
I miss having sisters to talk to...but it is wrong to return to fallacy for that. I think many people do though, for their own reasons. | ||
| davidderush (davidderush) Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 157 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 204.145.232.66 |
My faith is in Yahweh, and in His Son Yahshua, and in the People He is raising up, The Twelve Tribes. The life we have, and the revelation we have been given, is like nothing I ever saw in an entire life of searching throughout Christianity. Clearly, Andy and John and many here do not see us that way. That's fine. Live according to what is in your heart. I don't mind people thinking we are not who we claim to be. Very few recognized Yahshua for who he really was when He walked the earth either. And very few understood who the early believers were, either. Paul, toward the end, was despised by most of his own former co-workers...written off. I do know we love each other like no other people I have ever seen or been among. I do know we have a unity of mind and heart like no other people I have ever seen or been among. I also know that the quality of prophetic revelation here has delivered me from a knot of confusion that had only gotten worse during the 27 years I sought to understand God's ways as a Christian before I met the Twelve Tribes. It is like the man Yahshua healed who had been blind since birth....the Pharisees didn't agree that Yahshua was the anointed one....and they kept hammering the healed man to agree with them...and his answer was a simple one..."one thing I KNOW...I was blind...and now I see." My testimony is the same. I didn't have a life of loving and being loved. Now I do. I didn't have a life of being one in mind and heart with anyone. Now I do. I didn't know what I was created for...and now I do, and have real hope of fulfilling my created purpose. All of those things have come into my life for no other reason than that I met and listened to the People and the Gospel of the Communities of the Twelve Tribes. You can say anything you want to against me, or against the Twelve Tribes...but I know who are YHWH's anointed People...just as certainly as that man born blind, who could now see, knew that Yahshua was truly of God. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| jacob (jacob) Intermediate Member Username: jacob Post Number: 336 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 131.216.48.199 |
Visitor, You are misusing the word Selah: a word frequently found in the Book of Psalms, and also in Hab. 3:9, 13, about seventy-four times in all in Scripture. Its meaning is doubtful. Some interpret it as meaning "silence" or "pause;" others, "end," "a louder strain," "piano," etc. The LXX. render the word by daplasma i.e., "a division." Are you impressed with yourself as having the same authority as someone who wrote the Scriptures? Jacob | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.243.32.26 |
Well said, Jacob. Can I ask where to get info on etymology(sp)on biblical terms/words? I'd like to study, but dont know where to find a reliable source. sorry about spelling. entymology(study of insects) is not what i mean *laugh* i mean the roots of the word | ||
| spike (spike) Member Username: spike Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 216.20.85.195 |
Dear hope_20, although we are not there in person for you, please know there are sisters out here for you. The TT do not have a monopoly on love or community. Seek and you shall find. You are still young and live in a wonderful area for finding those of like mind and purpose. In fact I know a sister out your way who you would find great company. I am not far either. If you would like to visit the hills of w.mass and enjoy some fellowship-leave your email and we will contact you (I too must be anonymous). peace, spike | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
The "prophetic revelation" delivered there may not be from God but may be whatever traditionally tickles the ears (and PRIDE) of the hearers and keeps them from true revelation. ( for example it is bolderdash that only those in community are saved). Yes, as Spike indicates there are many caring communities outside the Tribes. To prophesy means to speak the word of God (not necessarily to predict the future). It is the charge of a Christian to test the spirits to see if they are of God. Salvation is not like an exclusive club or "in" group but rather salvation is given freely to all those who truly seek. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 658 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
for example it is bolderdash that only those in community are saved can you come up with any examples where someone who was saved didn't then devote themselves to fellowship? take a look at that word devote by the way. it means constant, never stopping. i don't know how you can se it any other way. do you have any examples of someone today that has the holy spirit that does not live with others of like mind? living in community is a natural outcome of being saved not a requirement. it is normal to want to be with others that hve the holy spirit. now, having said that, there are examples of those who desired to be with the saints but were unable to be with them. that does not nullify their salvation because, it is not a requirement for salvation, but simply a natural desire and outcome of salvation. | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 182 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
How about those in traditional church communities. ? Are none of them saved?.Only God knows who is saved because only God knows if Christ lives within a person. By the way Mr de Rush when was the last time you saw the books? . A miser does not examine his stash in public.. If it is not in a Swiss bank it may be buried somewhere. In any case Swiss Banks ARE common places for cult leaders to keep their stash. What percentage of the properties are under his name? And something puzzles me. When referring to Yashua are you also referrring to Yoneq? Is he considered to be God or the most special human on the planet? And by the way, why WERE you at the Billy Graham crusade, to support him or slander him? | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.112.151.21 |
selah simply means pause, this pause is intended so one may calmly think about what exhortation, prayer or word of faith was put forth... in summary, selah means to pause and calmly think about it... meditate on so to speak... Jacob you reap what you sow by trying to be 'scholarly'... perhaps you and schmuel can get together on it and produce more strife and division over your 'scholarly' activities... let me ask you... how long did it take you to go to dictionary.com and copy that here? i bet if you used the keyboard shortcuts instead of a mouse you could have cut your time in half at least... so right back at you... Are you impressed with yourself as having the same authority as someone who wrote the Scriptures? selah! | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 183 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
when I think about it the concrete problems here like the path of the money ,are not as serious as the odd doctrines.. I noticed those 2 doctrines about community and the rejection of the name of Jesus on the day I first met the tribes and they handed me a tract with a defamatory image of BG on the front. i notice that there is some sort of fear present over the name of Jesus. Why? Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name, That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:9-11 Is the bible a trusted book in the Tribes? | ||
| schmuel (schmuel) Intermediate Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 420 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Visitor, Jacob was simply pointing out that it is unusual to end emails and posts with the word 'selah', that it is a word that is generally reserved for use in the context of the psalms. And perhaps it is reasonable to end an email with selah, as your individual style. No problem with that. However you really should not be hostile to Jacob for pointing out to you that it is unusual, and wondering if you understood the background and usage of the word. Shalom, Steven Avery | ||
| andy_n (andy_n) Intermediate Member Username: andy_n Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.156.159.171 |
FOK asked: can you come up with any examples where someone who was saved didn't then devote themselves to fellowship? FOK, I can think of no examples of those who came to a substantial knowledge of YHWH who didn't then devote themselves to Worship. Fellowship was not always an option, often by the apparent will of YHWH. It can also be terribly presumptious for anyone to claim they or someone else are saved (or not), but from what I can gather from Scripture, the following people seem to have made the grade: Noe, who alone with his family was "perfect in his generations" and was "saved", who on landing, cut off part of his few remaining relatives; Abraham, who lived in the wilderness with all his wealth of livestock and servants; Issaac, who raised his family in the wilderness; Yacov, who served how many years with the unrighteous Laban before heading out to the wilderness with only his wives and children (and wealth of livestock); Yoceph, who spent most of his young adult life in Egypt amid pagans (and became fabulously wealthy); Moses, who spent 40 years in Pharoahs household, 40 years in the wilderness of Median, and 40 years as the mediary between a God who would have as soon exterminated such stiff necked people, and the tribe of Israel who did not want him or his God so much as to be out of Egypt, until the testing came, and then they wanted to go back; Job - the most righteous of his day, who had vast wealth of his own, but freely gave of it too, as a good steward of that which YHWH had blessed him with; Daniel, who with just two others, stood up for YHWH, and was cast into the furnace, and was redeemed; Yohanan the immerser, who went to live in the wilderness and call Israel to repentance, who attracted a following, but didn't proclaim himself or his followers as anything; the Ethopian eunich, who was Baptised, and went his way; Paul, who was out evangelizing and had no edah (but did have his own business and his own income), and spent much of his 'christian' time in a Roman prison... If you want to add to the list "those who didn't forsake all" in the physical possessions sense, there would be King David, the man after God's heart; and Solomon, author of the proverbs the Tribes immerse their children in. (Message edited by andy_n on February 03, 2006) | ||
| andy_n (andy_n) Intermediate Member Username: andy_n Post Number: 144 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.156.159.171 |
In additional thought, looking at fellowship from a step back - at the results of it rather than desiring to justify it, I see that fellowship has far more often led the people astry than to YHWH. Need you look any further than "the church"? How often did people in Scripture come to God in fellowship as compared to "in the wilderness", and of that, alone? Did God speak to Moshe in the midst of the congregation? or alone on Sinai? There are others too, but you likely know of them already, if you begin to think about it. | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 187 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
A PARENTS PERSPECTIVE AND ONE ANYONE INSIDE THE TT OR SYMPATHETIC TO THEM NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND. Dear Visitor 2000 rather than focusing on always having the last word, I thought it might be informative for you to look at this post from a parent with a child in a cult that is very similar to the TT. "It's all so disturbing. A parent feels so helpless when their child, adult child, is in a cult like this. I am terrified too that my daughter, and her children, are not getting enough to eat, are cold in winter, and being abused. When someone in this cult gets ill...they kick them to the curb! The leaders don't want someone who can't earn their keep...like a slave. The slightest resistance to their commands results in punishment.....I never dreamed this could happen in my family, but it has, and now we are dealing with years of lost contact, and refusal of visits. After meeting other parents of kids in cults, I have deeper understanding of the heartache that we all feel...it is universal. Doesn't matter what the cult is: our kids are under the same kind of control, by the same kind of psychopath leader(s). I grieve not just for the loss of my daughter in my life, but for the loss of experiencing my own grandchildren, as well. At least I now know that there is still hope that she can come out, some people leave cults after 20+ years. I also know that some of the cult members read these posts..., so, if you are reading this, SSG, I love you, and miss you terribly, I will forever be here for you...no matter if it is my dying day." what thinkest you of this? any opinions are welcome. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 661 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
while i do not condone any abuse that may be suffered at the hands of another human being, i do think that the christian mentality is to be completely intolerant of anything that is not mainstream christianity. that is why when the holy spirit calls people out of mainstream christianity,( which has occured many times through the centuries) those that stay behind begin to label them a cult and persecute them in the name of god. | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 188 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Thanks for your opinion, Although this might have some truth in some situations, there has been abuse going on in the TT. Absolute adherance to a leader who has a vice like grip on peoples free thinking produces abuse. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 662 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
although there have been some things that have happened within the tt that should be addressed, (primarily by those involved) i do not think it is the norm. i also do not think it is the result of anything that yoneq has said or done. | ||
| andy_n (andy_n) Intermediate Member Username: andy_n Post Number: 145 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.156.159.7 |
FOK, "the norm" within the tribes is that everyone acknowledges the Anoniting of Spriggs, accepts all the teachings of his without question, often (though not always in all clans or under all shepherds) never questioning authority or doctrine or practice. Someone having 'issues' with something Yoneq has said and how it relates to Scripture, and bringing it up to their shepherd to the point that they are asked to leave has nothing to do with Yoneq? Some time back on a visit, I had a discussion with someone who was saying in one breath how "the true test of being His people is learning to submit to authority", and in the next, how a family member needed hospitalization, and how hard a time was given the doctors about the type and method of care to be given... And a light went on in my head. Ah! so the authority of Yoneq (and those who Yoneq has hand chosen as "Elders") is to be unquestioned, as he is "Anointed", but seeing as no-one else is anointed (by the vision of his anointing), they have no authority, not even over their own relationship with YHWH. Even that must be subserviant to "fellowship in the body". It's backwards. But it's Yoneq's teaching. (Message edited by andy_n on February 02, 2006) | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 189 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Andy. thanks for clarifying this point. People will often not look at what threatens their paradigm of the world as it is frightening. "Certainly, people who join cults are not seeking to be controlled, made dependent, exploited, or psychologically harmed when they first commit themselves to membership. Cult members actually come to embrace and even glorify these kinds of mistreatment in part because their leaders, and their followers by proxy, have mastered the art of seduction, using techniques of undue influence (Cialdini, 1984). As Hochman (1990) notes, cults, by employing miracle, mystery, and authority, promise salvation. Instead of boredom—noble and sweeping goals. Instead of existential anxiety—structure and certainty. Instead of alienation—COMMUNITY. Instead of impotence —solidarity directed by all-knowing leaders. " sound familiar? Having met this Yoneq and expereinced his scorn I see how he speaks with forked tongue. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 668 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
it seems to me that if this person was putting pressure on others for answers then he may have been looking for a reason to leave. that is conjecture of course. i do not know the circumstances. what i do know from my experience there, is that the sheperd's will do everything they can to right a wrong. it is their purpose. they will not however, respond to being put under pressure over something someone percieves as a doctrinal problem. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 669 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
they will however listen to any concern that someone has about a teaching. those that beleive that yoneq is willfully decieving people is completely unfounded. if his heart is not in the right place it will be exposed. as of yet i have seen no evidence of it. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 670 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
lookatall, for you to think that all of us that speak well of the tt are psychologically impaired in some way is simply wrong. it seems to be the only way you have of justifiying the way you speak against them. you have no way of confirming such a statement. nor would you be able to if you met every single person that has had contact with them. you are misrepresenting a lot of peaople that you don't even know. including yoneq. | ||
| hope_20 (hope_20) Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.243.32.26 |
vis- you said:selah simply means pause, this pause is intended so one may calmly think about what exhortation, prayer or word of faith was put forth... in summary, selah means to pause and calmly think about it... meditate on so to speak... Jacob you reap what you sow by trying to be 'scholarly'... perhaps you and schmuel can get together on it and produce more strife and division over your 'scholarly' activities... let me ask you... how long did it take you to go to dictionary.com and copy that here? i bet if you used the keyboard shortcuts instead of a mouse you could have cut your time in half at least... so right back at you... Are you impressed with yourself as having the same authority as someone who wrote the Scriptures? selah! Let me say two things- the way you use that word is to incite anger in the reader--do you really think you are saved by talking like this? You just spewed filth out on your post, hardly a quality of a godly person. Why dont you join the community if you are so convinced that it is the "right" and only way? If you truly believe that, and their doctrines, then you are being selfish and sinful by staying "in the world". Please realize the way you speak reveals your heart, Yeshua said so! hope | ||
| faye2 (faye2) Junior Member Username: faye2 Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.69.140.24 |
Hi fok- Can I ask you something? I'm not sure I got what you were saying....do you think "needing answers" necessarily precludes leaving, or equals a desire to? It could just simply mean a real need for answers, and the gumption (for lack of a better word)to go after them, perhaps. Do you think that is wrong? or did I misunderstand you? I guess I think that the Truth should be able to stand on it's own. It can stand up to a question-asking-session or two, right? : ) And I think you know as well as I do that not *every* shepherd is as you described, although many are. But I totally agree with you that strong statements about specific individuals' inner workings should be qualified by at the very least a real and true knowledge of that individual. I don't think I would ever even *try* to take a stab at Yoneq's inner workings anymore than I would yours or lookatalls or George Bush's... how can someone *really* know what makes an individual tick?....now ask me about one of my children- that's a different story, I've watched and studied them-in a variety of different situations over the years, and I think I've got a pretty good handle on what is going on inside of them, even though they still surprise me now and then about things I never knew about! But I do feel qualified to at least give you a basic synopsis of their inner workings and I would believe you (and have) when you have said different things about your son because I know you know him. I don't think you knew Yoneq very well, and probably not a lot of people here ever did or does. (Sorry if that's an assumption on my part) So staying from blanket statements about what his motives are, good or bad, seems like a pretty safe place to operate in if you want to stay in the realm of the truth. Just my O. faye | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
FOK, you are not understanding at all what I am saying, all humans can be brainwashed, given the right circumstances , not just fans of Yoneq. I do not know him although i have met him, but I see the fruit of his life. All people are a mix of good and bad motives but people with power over others, who irresponsibly exercise that power are more ACCOUNTABLE. I myself observed some of these characterisitcs in him. He also made statements to me about what he thought of me. If people are OK after leaving the tribes why is there a recovery group needed to help them cope? I am saying that although they made a choice to join the group at some point they became victims, and damage was done. Most people that enter cults are idealistc and wonderful people when they enter, but then become pawns. Cult leaders do have psychological syndromes however that have typical characterisitcs, but I am not referring to the people on this board. | ||
| faye2 (faye2) Junior Member Username: faye2 Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.69.140.33 |
Lookatall- You are so right. Everyone I know who has left the TT are not really OK. Including me. I'm sure there are some people out there, but I don't know them yet. : ) I also plea totally guilty of being idealistic and even a pawn at times (laughing because it's sooo true!) But I cannot (ok- I won't) see myself as simply a victim. I appreciate what you are saying and we might even be on the same page and I'm perhaps I'm not getting it, but I just think that the accountabilty thing you are talking about goes in every direction. Maybe you are referring to the scripture about teachers being more responsible..... but aren't parents all teachers too? Or single people who stand in the gatherings and speak about how parents should be raising their children? (just an example) Aren't we ALL teachers for each other- even there, or even *especially* there? *Equal* responsibilty, as far as I stand with my Creator. (for example, who is more responsible, the addict, or the co-dependants in the family?) And as far as recovery groups are concerned....I don't want to be weird or anything but... Did you know there are WAY more recovery groups for Christianity than there are for the TT? I know because I've been seeking them out. "Why are there recovery groups to help them cope?" That's what you said, right? The abuse and hypocrisy I experienced in my many years in Christianity outways what I experienced in the TT. Or maybe they are the same thing.I'm just not sure yet! And what is the real meaning of "re-cover" anyways? Putting a new cover on the same thing?!Just a play on words...but sometimes I do feel there is some reality to that thought... ; ) | ||
| jacob (jacob) Intermediate Member Username: jacob Post Number: 340 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 131.216.24.219 |
Hope 20, When I reread, You make my point exactly. Vis uses Selah inappropriatly as 'emphasis; communicating some sort of 'authority' to have the last word on a particualr subject. Vis obviously believes themself to have the same type of authority as one of the Psalmist according to the reply that was shot back at me. | ||
| jacob (jacob) Intermediate Member Username: jacob Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 131.216.24.219 |
Vis, I have been pretty snarly with David Derush at times on the forum and yet we can still have constructive dialogue. Why do you think it benefits your case or your Masters to consistently accuse others on this Forum? Jacob | ||
| jacob (jacob) Intermediate Member Username: jacob Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 131.216.24.219 |
I just want to for go to your interpretation also Schmuel as you are much more knowledgable than I. Maybe it is just a chosen style for Vis with his/her interprestation of it being a peaceful silence. But that would seem paradoxial to her/his usual 'voice' which is accussatory and offensive. Jacob | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 672 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
I guess I think that the Truth should be able to stand on it's own. It can stand up to a question-asking-session or two, right? : ) if an honest person asks a question of someone it is assumed that they are asking because they need understanding. the difference is when it then becomes a right and wrong issue. when someone takes a stand on one side and someone else on the other the house is divided. i could see if there were many people bringing the same concern, but the holy spirit does not speak through only one person . | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 673 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
i just want to add one note about yoneq being the only authority on what is learned while living in a tt community. what i learned from the people that i lived and worked with went way beyond any teaching. the teachings are merely icing on the cake, compared to the learning that came from the love and fellowship offered. i'm not really convinced that the things being taught are the problem that cause people to leave, as much as it might be more personal between individuals. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 674 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
love is a much a higher standard and a stronger bond than the knowledge of good and evil ie. right and wrong. it is a narrow path... | ||
| visitor2005 (visitor2005) New member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 206.174.62.10 |
"Vis uses Selah inappropriatly as 'emphasis; communicating some sort of 'authority' to have the last word on a particualr subject. Vis obviously believes themself to have the same type of authority as one of the Psalmist according to the reply that was shot back at me." "But that would seem paradoxial to her/his usual 'voice' which is accussatory and offensive. " it is always "accussatory and offensive" remarks towards others that impells me to post here on factnet... if there was in fact none of that here vis200X would never have to post... so why dont you take you own advice... stop accusing others and heaping your darkness on them... and i will not have to post... you reap what you sow... an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth... you want to pull someones tooth out... be ready for vis to come along and pull yours out as well... you can always count on me to dish it back at you... and like a dog that returns to his own vomit so will you... do not compare me derush either... if only i had the grace and faith of that man.... selah! (just cause i know it burns you) | ||
| schmuel (schmuel) Intermediate Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 432 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
wow, visitor ... you really are in a sad and difficult place. Do you have any Christian, Messianic or community fellowship (as is Twelve Tribes) at all ? A place where the name of Messiah is lifted up and repentance, faith, baptisms (Hebrews 6) are preached and taught and lived ? Visitor, I ask this sincerely, not to belittle or anything, and if you don't wish to answer, I understand. Shalom, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 192 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Dear Faye, thanks for your thoughtful reply.What I mean by level of accountability is that those who have CONTROL over the lives of MULTIPLE others, (as opposed to our personal responsibilities to teach children etc), can do a lot of good or a lot of damage. (by the way it is a common practice of single people to crtitcise parents, they do that until they have their own children, and then, miraculously, they stop!!!!!!) If people who leave the TT are hurt, this is fall out from commands from above and those commands also affect interpersonal relationships. People who blame Bush for deaths in Iraq see him as being a flawed leader. I see Yoneq as being a flawed leader who has perverted the gospel of Jesus Christ into some other teaching. I dont need to know him personally to see the fruit of what he does, and the problems caused to his followers.. I saw him in what I considered to be an act that spoke of what was in his heart. This was at the Billy Graham Crusade at Flushing Meadows, New York. He bought a group of 200 people to the park and placed them at a bottle neck exit between the train station and the park, so everyone who left the train was confronted with "The Litmus test" and derogotory literature about Billy Graham that you really had to examine to understand just what its message was.. ( i am not here to argue for or against BG) | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
REST OF MESSAGE First, this was an act of GRANDISOSITY on his part. Secondly it was an act of DECEPTION. Those I spoke to said they were not there to criticise BG when i asked them directly, yeah, right! Third he was there to ENTICE young people into joining the Tribes. There was a special tract printed up to hand out there (along with the Litmus Test that finds everyone else ot be wanting but the ones who follow Yoneq.) This tract was called "I want to be remembered by the Gospel i preached". It featured a photo of BG in Hollywood. Once again the message was dressed up pretty, but it was there. pg2-3 said that all those who were going forward that day were only going to be nominal Christians pg4-5 who is Eleanor Rigby/ where a plea is made for all the lonely people to join the TT (what a solution!!!!!). pg 6-10 Loneliness , where it claims that loneliness, anger, deprssion , guilt , worry will disappear when you join the TT communities pg11-15 dis integration , another thinly veiled pitch to join the TT and be happy. then a PLACE to belong basically says, we are it. I was not expecting to see this group of people but because I have had experience with cults, my heart went out to all of the followers. I saw a bunch of sincere but frightened people who had been placed by Yoneq on he front lines. He himself was hiding out in the back, and I asked 10 people before i found out that there was a leader, and he was present. it seemed they had been instructed to hide him. I saw who I now know to be Mr DeRush and as I listened to his message i realised it was wrong when measured against the scriptures. It is a works gospel which omits the balance of grace. We are all responsible for what we do with what we know, but we also cannot earn our way into heaven as none of us are righteous.. This eye witness first hand experience is what I mean by knowing the leader by his fruit. I cannot discover who people in the tribes think he is. Do they believe him to be a prophet, god or Jesus? Grace and peace be with you. Enjoy your children, you sound like a very devoted mother. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 675 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.131.3 |
lookatall, while i appreciate your concern for people that may have gotten hurt in some way through their contact with the tt, i do not think transfering all of your energy to judging the motives of yoneq is the way to help. maybe you should be addressing the specific incidences that occurred and see if some understanding can be found as to motives. yashua had no problem rejecting his own mothers pleas for him to come to his senses. i'm sure it hurt. Mal 4:5 See, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the day of the Lord comes, that great day, greatly to be feared Mal 4:6 And by him the hearts of fathers will be turned to their children, and the hearts of children to their fathers; for fear that I may come and put the earth under a curse. | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Thanks FOK for commenting, I actually disagree, as it is only when people who are still trapped in the tribe mentality really understand what was done to them that they can recover their minds, their lives and their God. It is not so much a case by case issue as it is a global issue.I believe that everyone who goes into the tribes gets hurt. The best thing they bring away from there is the friendships they made. Jesus did reject his own mothers pleas but he was God. I am not sure about these scriptures, do you think that Yoneq is Elijah? perhaps im not understanding here. | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Faye, I forgot to say that I agree with you that lots of abuse also goes on in some churches, but isolationist groups that teach they are the only way and everyone else is wrong are very dangerous. Especially to women who work doing drudgery behind the scenes and have minimum contact with the outside world. The more isolated the more mind control succeeds. | ||
| whereto2 New member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.37.103 |
and so it continues... however we can see derush has kept his word and his covenant... and the same ol slander and heaping of abuse continues here long after his departure... i can respect his ability to stay away from this filthy place... no good fruit can ever come from here... | ||
| whereto2 New member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.37.103 |
and so it continues... however we can see derush has kept his word and his covenant... and the same ol slander and heaping of abuse continues here long after his departure... i can respect his ability to stay away from this filthy place... no good fruit can ever come from here... | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 256 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Preach it! Oh Great White Pharisee!!! Go have dinner with Derush and the "HOLY"!!! and you say we are rotten??? Id rather eat with this fella! "While Yahshua was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" On hearing this, Yahshua said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." | ||
| soul1958 Member Username: soul1958 Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 75.100.4.110 |
and so it continues... ?? This thread was 18 months dead. For what reason could one possibly desire to dig up rotting fruit in a compost pile? | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 258 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi | ||
| whereto2 Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.167.66.36 |
bump... | ||
| sabbathkeeper Member Username: sabbathkeeper Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 64.24.147.92 |
"bump" reminds me of.... oh never mind it's between me and my wife!!!!  |
