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cs1 (cs1)
New member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:11 pm: | 
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Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. (NKJV)
John 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit escending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' (NKJV)
John saying that He didn't know that Jesus was the Messiah, until he saw the Holy Spirit upon Him.
The Father had told him to look for this, and that this would be the one that would baptize with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:4-5
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
1. These 3 verses show us that there is an experience that is properly called "Baptism with the Holy Spirit".
a) They teach usthat Jesus is the catalyst for this "baptism".
b) They also show us that this "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is separate and distinct from being born again!
(1) In other words, being born again of the Spirit, and receiving the "Baptism with the Holy Spirit are two separate events!
Which we will prove from scriptures ok  |
cs1 (cs1)
New member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.162.0.45
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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THE PROOF
A. John 20:21-22 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)
1. It was at this point that the disciples actually received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit!
a) Some say that was only "symbolic", but it is those who believe that there is only 1 experience intend of 2.
B. Acts 1:4-5 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." (NKJV)
1. Jesus Himself acknowledges here that there are 2 separate experiences!
a) The baptism of John with water and the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
C. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body . . . . (NKJV) |
cs1 (cs1)
New member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.162.0.44
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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1. Notice that is the baptism "by one Spirit" into the body!
a) But we have already been told in Luke 3:16 . . . He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
b) So, it is Jesus that baptizes with the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit that baptizes us into the body of Christ!
2. As we said, there are those who deny that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience.
a) They usually quote from Ephesians 4:3-5 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
(1) But, they mix verses 4 and 5 together to read something like this, "There is one baptism and you were baptized by the one spirit into the body of Christ."
(2) But Paul is talking about the fact that there is only one body of Christ!
(a) If we go to the beginning of chapter 4, we see that he was trying to keep Christians from "factionizing"!
(b) Ephesians 4:1-6 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (NKJV)
(i) In other words, if you have been baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit - it the same in one church as it is in any other!!!!
(ii) Yet, there are so many that will not "accept" baptism from another church. You must be baptized in their church, by their denomination for it to count!
(iii) It is ironic that most of the people who reject baptism with the Holy Spirit as a separated experience, also reject everyone else's water baptism!
(iv) This is the "unity" that Paul was about!
D. We know and widely accept "baptism with water".
1. The pastor is usually the one who does the baptizing, and water is the element in which you are being baptized! |
cs1 (cs1)
New member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.162.0.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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2. In the baptism with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the baptize, and the Holy Spirit is the element in which you are immersed!
a) It is important the we understand this concept!
b) Baptism with the Holy Spirit is immersion in the Spirit! |
cs1 (cs1)
New member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:20 pm: |
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CONCLUSION
A. John 7:37-38 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." (NKJV) |
cs1 (cs1)
New member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.37
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:21 pm: |
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THE PROMISE
Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. (NKJV) |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:24 pm: |
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Acts 1:4-54 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." (NKJV)
C. Acts 2:1-41 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (NKJV) |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:25 pm: |
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This event in Acts chapter 2 is the fulfillment of the promise of the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
2. You notice that they were all "filled" with the Holy Spirit.
a) And a careful study shows that the "filled with the Holy Spirit" and "baptized with the Holy Spirit" are used interchangeably.
3. In order for this specific event to be subsequent, or a second experience:
a) The disciples had to have already been saved!
b) So the question is, "Were the disciples converted before the event in Acts 2?" |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.37
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:25 pm: |
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THE EVIDENCE
A. John 20:22-24 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
1. This is not the baptism in the Holy Spirit, that occurred later as we saw in Acts.
a) In fact the promise of the baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts 1:5 you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now, came after this.
2. So, the question is, "What occurred when Jesus breathed upon them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit?" |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.162.0.44
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:26 pm: |
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Some say that this was only "symbolic", and that they did not receive the Holy Spirit!
(1) In the laws of correct Biblical interpretation, it is said that the obvious meaning is usually the correct meaning!
(2) It's kind of hard to believe that Jesus would do and say something that He didn't mean!
b) Jesus had already told Nicodemus that he had to be "born again".
(1) I believe that when Jesus breathed upon them, that the Holy Spirit they received was for conversion. They were born again at that moment!
(2) They were at that moment "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit, but not yet "baptized in the Holy Spirit"!
(a) That took place on the day of Pentecost. |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:28 pm: |
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MORE EVIDENCE
A. Acts 2:37-39 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." (NKJV) |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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1. Notice the 3-fold command - Repent, be Baptized (in Jesus for remission of sins), and Receive the Holy Spirit!
a) The gift of the Holy Sprit seems to be subsequent to 1st- repentance, and 2nd-being baptized for the remission of sins!
b) If this was the only evidence it would be a weak argument, but it is not! |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 32
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:31 pm: |
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(1) It is however, simply looking at what seems to be the "obvious" meaning of these verses.
B. Acts 8:5-6 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. 6 And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. (NKJV) but then we read in Acts 8:14-17 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:32 pm: |
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1. In other words, they were believers, had been baptized in the name of Jesus, yet had not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit!
2. So, the church in Jerusalem sent Peter and John that they might receive the "subsequent" experience of Holy Spirit!
3. It is important to note that for them to be "believers" and to have been baptized in the name of Jesus, the Holy Spirit had to be "residing within" them, yet they had not received the Baptism!
a) 1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)
(1) So, they had a relationship with the Holy Spirit, but as of yet, He had not come "upon" them. (epi) = upon (para) = with (en) = inside
(2) Acts 8:17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (NKJV) |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.38
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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CONCLUSION
A. As we have seen from Scripture, the Lord is not limited to a particular method.
1. He uses a variety of ways to accomplish the same result!
2. In Acts 2, they were all sitting, when the Holy Spirit descended upon then as of cloven tongues.
3. In Acts 8, the Gift of the Holy Sprit was imparted by the laying on of hands by Peter and John.
a) But, this method was not used by Philip, the evangelist!
b) He was used to perform great miracles, but not used to impart the Holy Spirit! |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 35
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 3:43 pm: |
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Tongues are real and for today and just a small part of what the Holy Spirit can do in our lives as we are empowered. thank you all for your time
now I'm going to go babble in a unknown language according to 1cor 14:14-16,20,21 |
arron (arron)
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1277
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.204.41
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 5:48 pm: |
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i believe in the gifts of THE SPIRIT as the word teaches them. there are several gifts i would like to have but have not received them. when THE LORD who is the giver according to our ability gives us a gift it will be the real thing. |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 5:58 pm: |
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Q? can you have all the gift that our to be desired? and if you do have them what or why would have them for? |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 65.54.154.118
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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Q? can you have all the gift that our to be desired? and if you do have them what or why would have them for? |
arron (arron)
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1305
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.204.41
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 3:23 pm: |
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i feel that a person who is really living rigth with GOD and who has a calling on their lives to work for HIM may have all the gifts of THE SPIRIT but there will be a need for them to work. i mean if there is never a need for prophecy in their ministry it just wont happen. |
redeemed4life (redeemed4life)
Member
Username: redeemed4life
Post Number: 95
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 4.252.241.112
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 9:43 pm: |
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Ephesians 1:13-13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
If we were sealed with the Holy Spirit when we accepted Christ for Salvation and Christ living in us from the point of our salvation on, then why would it be necessary to be filled with the Holy Spirit again? In the New Testament when they were baptized (strongs G.907)they were overwhelmed with the Holy Spirit. Could it be that God did it this way because no one had ever been "filled" with the Holy Spirit before? Jesus said that He had to go away so that He could send the Holy Spirit to them but after that the Holy Spirit had come and now we receive Him at the time of our salvation? I put the last question mark there because I am not yet solidified in my beliefs in this area concerning the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. As for a believer having every gift of the Spirit, I dont know about that either. I believe that God gives the gifts as He wills and I also believe that people focus more on the gifts than they do the FRUIT and that is how people get hurt by others operating in what they feel is a "gift" of the Spirit. |
bear (bear)
Intermediate Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 342
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.247.112.45
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 11:36 pm: |
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r4l,
In Acts, after they were baptized, they were prayed for to receive the HS. This did not come automatically.
The HS seals us into the family of God at salvation. The Baptism in the HS if for the ability (dunamis) to be a powerful witness for Christ. See Acts 1:8.
In John 20:22 (read 19-23 for context), Jesus breathed on his disciples and said "receive the Holy Spirit". Every notable scholar agree's that at this time, his followers received their salvation. Jesus had died, risen again, and they believed. Later in Acts 1, he tells them to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Father. This was another HS experience.
In the NT, especially the book of Acts, We see:
1. A person receiving Jesus as their Lord
2. Water Baptism
3. Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
The only time we see this is out of order, is when Peter preached to Cornelius and his company. They believed in Jesus as Peter preached. The HS fell on them, and later they were water baptized.
Spiritual gifts, and the gifts of the Spirit are no the same. The GOTS are only given at the HS will, operating through those who have received the Baptism in the HS. Spiritual gifts operate in our lives everyday; the fruit of the Spirit is evidence of our salvation. |
redeemed4life (redeemed4life)
Member
Username: redeemed4life
Post Number: 97
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 4.253.70.108
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 4:38 pm: |
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Bear thank you for this explanation. |
godchild (godchild)
Senior Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 2194
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 4.255.45.207
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 6:08 pm: |
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bear, I do not agree with you. If the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not spiritual gifts, what are spiritual gifts? Do you see the problem?
In other words, what do you believe will be the final consequence of a person who accepts Christ and is baptized, who loves God and His/her neighbor, is charitable, but never speaks in tongues, prophesies, has the gift of discernment or interpretation, or healing. Or will there be a consequence, in your view? |
godchild (godchild)
Senior Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 2195
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 4.255.45.207
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 6:34 pm: |
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Matthew 3:13-14 says, "Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and You are coming to me?"" (Note the question mark). After John baptized Jesus, he saw the Holy Spirit descend upon Him in the form of a dove.
Note John 1:29 where it says, "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who is preferred before me, for He was before me'." THEN John baptized Him and saw the Holy Spirit descend in the form of a dove.
I believe this was the confirmation, not the knowledge, of who Jesus was.
The New Testament speaks 7 times 'He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit', (meaning Jesus), and yet the Holy Bible says Jesus DID NOT baptize, but appointed His apostles to do so. We receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. Our salvation is assured. When Paul said, "Desire Spiritual gifts, he was saying to do as Christ said, and love one another as thyself." (desire to serve God.) It is when we are able to love that the Holy Spirit will work through us. The fruits are impossible without love. People can claim to speak in tongues, and prophesy til the cows come home; but unless he has love, it means nothing. Love is the fruit. Anything else comes as God wills, not because we desire it.
Remember, the Holy Bible says, "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." And "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God." |
bear (bear)
Intermediate Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 343
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.247.112.45
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 7:11 pm: |
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Godchild,
A very good post! I was using a term that is common in my heavy Calvinistic area. People use terms like, mercy, teaching, administration, etc, to denote spiritual gifts.
The Fruit of the Spirit from Galatians 5 is evidence that we are walking in the Spirit; a biproduct of our salvation.
You said well that we receive the HS at salvation, and that our salvation is assured. However, in the book of Acts we see a second experience with the HS, seperate from salvation. To deny this would be to deny the holy text.
In Acts 8:4-25 we have the example of Philip preaching in Samaria. Philip's preaching produced results; the people accepted Christ, even the sorcerer Simon, and were batized. Some time later, Peter and John came from Jerusalem, laid hands on the people, and they received the gift of the HS as spoken about in Acts 1:8. Simon saw something so powerful, that he offered money for the abilty to produce the same results. This was seperate from their salvation. This is also one example.
Last, when Paul said to "Desire Spiritual gifts", in 1 Corinthians 14, he was refering to the gifts mentioned in chapter 12. Paul was writing a letter, and the context of chapters 12-14, must be understood. In chapter 14 he corrects the Corinthians for their abuse of the gifts. He tells them to desire these gifts, but to do everything with order. Your interpretation from the above post, is true in one sense, but, and I say this with respect, is not the context of, nor supported by, the text. |
bear (bear)
Intermediate Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 344
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.247.112.45
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 7:19 pm: |
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Godchild,
I do not believe that speaking in toungues, etc, is a salvation issue.
There are not any consequences. I personally believe that people cheat themselves out of that extra dose of dunamis that helps them be a witness for Christ (Acts 1:8) I do not agree with Oneness Pent. teaching that one must speak in toungues to be saved. That is an unbiblical heresy!
I am a VERY conservative person in my view of the gifts. I dislike abuses and nutty folk who produce strange manifestations, and claim that it is of God. I have actually shut people down; asked them to leave a service, if such unbiblical manifestations occure |
godchild (godchild)
Senior Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 2198
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 4.255.41.135
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:49 am: |
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bear, Thank you for understanding my posts and not becoming personally offended. You speak as a mature Christian, and this is greatly appreciated.
If I were in a classroom, for example, and were taking an exam on the book of Acts, and the question arose as to the number 1 purpose of the Day of Pentecost, I would put 'The gospel was given to the Gentiles'. Secondly, I would put the gifts. In my understanding, the gifts were used as the means to an end, the end being the salvation of the world, and not just the Jews. God knew the Jews would not accept the 'words only' of the apostles, but required signs, which did not please Him, so He gave signs in order to fulfill the purpose.
Personally, I do not cheat myself of the dunamis. I daily pray to be in God's will. This, I believe, leaves me open to whatever God desires others to see (the fruits), whether it be prophesy, lovingkindness, longsuffering, or charitable acts, and provides me with knowledge that I am led by Him, and not by my own desires.
If God sees a need for me or through me, I am open to the gifts. I do not believe I lack any evidence (for myself or others). It is the Holy Spirit who will open the eyes and hearts of others, perhaps by what they see in me. This is my desire, but I wait on the Lord, and His time, because I know it is perfect. May God truly Bless you this day, for the time you take here to answer. I pray many eyes will see your words. |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 65.54.155.46
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 2:42 pm: |
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Bear I could not have said it better myself |
bear (bear)
Intermediate Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 348
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.247.112.45
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 6:12 pm: |
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Godchild and cs1, thank you.
I believe, according to Acts 1:8, that the purpose of the baptism in the HS is to give us the ability to be a witness for Christ. That is exactly what Jesus said it was for.
Many people believe that the gifts of 1 Corinthians 12 passed away when the Apostolic age, so called, was over. They use 1 Cor. 13 as a support text. 1 Cor 13 tells us when that which is complete (when jesus returns)comes, then that which is in part will be done away with. The scriptures are complete, but that is not what Paul was describing. Remember, they had scripture in those days as well.
I am from the school of thought that believes we still need the gifts to authenticate the truth today.
In my travels, it was the power of the HS that changed people. I have visited little villages in Mexico and Asia, where many missionaries have been. The Missionaries that are actually making a difference are those that use the gifts of 1 Cor 12. Why? The people see that our God is real, and not another religious philosophy.
In 1 Cor. 2, Paul wrote that he did not come to them with big words and philosophy, but with the power of the HS. Why? Because the Greco-Roman world was filled with humanistic ideologies.
Paul was one of the smartest, most educated men of his time. Yet he knew that these people neede to see the power of the HS in order to be convinced.I believe our culture, in the USA, today needs to see something different. We need as much of God as we can get.
This, of course, is my view. |
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 77
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 67.42.107.93
| | Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
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Bear:
Your view is Biblic, therefore true.
It is by the Holy Spirit we are convicted of and drawn to God.(John 16:6, 6:44) By the Holy Spirit we have power to live for and witness of God.(Acts 1:8)(Rom 14:17,18) By the Holy Spirit we know the truth of God and His Word.(John 16:13) By the Holy Spirit the miracles and signs of God are done(Luke 11:20), to edify the saints, and to convince the unbeliever (1 Cor 14:22,24)
You were fulfilling your right and duty as the Lord's caretaker over His assembly (1 Tim 3:5) to insure all things in the assembly were done decently and in order.(1 Cor 14:26) i.e. Scripturally.
That is why speaking in unknown tongues in the assembly requires an interpreter, that it may be prophecy, which serves the purpose of assembly to edify all. (1 Cor 14:5,13,14,27) But, if no interpretation comes, then let them keep their tongues to themselves and not disturb those around (1 Cor 14:28), and give the whole assembly together a bad name for craziness(1 Cor 14:23). You could well say: 'You pray well, fine, and good, for yourself.(1 Cor 14:17) But have you not a closet at home??' |
cs1 (cs1)
Junior Member
Username: cs1
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 138.163.0.41
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 2:28 pm: |
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Bro _derrick amen but remember that this scripture you are pointing out is NOT saying Don't speak in Tongues but when you do, do it in order(maturity) and interrupt by the Spirit of God to edify all that hear it as the interpretation always LINES UP WITH THE WORD OF GOD that being the B>I>B>L>E. and for personal edification don't wait till Sunday but everyday in your Closet build yourself up with all prayers and hymns and spiritual supplication. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.110.14.161
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:39 pm: |
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Okay everyone I am sick of this argument about the Baptizism of the Holy Spirit. "One Lord,One faith, One baptism"Ephesian 4: . Simple fact one Faith in God One Lord over all. and third did Paul baptize did apollo baptize, did your preacher baptize you all? No God is the one that baptizes. There maybe room for discussion on when that actually takes place. But personally baptizism takes place when one first believes. Jut like circumcision of the heart. God circumcizes the heart He also baptizes. His baptism is what counts. Without it we are not sealed we are not saved.
(Message edited by turtle on April 03, 2006) |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1667
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.39.174
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 9:22 pm: |
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turtle have you changed in your belief in tongues as THE HOLY GHOST speaking through a person? i pray you dont change. it is good to hear from you again although some of your posts i cant understand for they sound different then what you used to sound. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1107
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.110.14.161
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 9:48 pm: |
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Sorry arron, know I still believe tongues is for today. But see arron i have been doing some new research on somethings. Take a look at circumcision of the heart. If you need some verses I will give them. And then take a look at the early church what does baptism mean. yes i still believe in the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues, prophecy and etc. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1738
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.39.174
| | Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 5:32 pm: |
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turtle i am sorry you have changed your beleif. i know that i have been baptised into the body of CHRIST by THE SPIRIT, THAT I HAVE RECEIVED WATER BAPTISUM AND THAT I HAVE BEEN SPIRIT BAPTISED IN THE HOLY GHOST WITH THE EVIDENCE OF TONGUES, i am so sorry that you no longer believe this. we had some good conversations. i still like to read your posts but i want write to you anymore |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1141
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 70.143.82.255
| | Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 5:44 pm: |
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Brother Derrick,
For the first time in my life I went to a race track last week day, The Santa Anita Derby. We didn't bet on any races, but Brother Derrick won the derby. It was fun. |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 792
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 3:12 am: |
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So...right now...while typing this...I am watching a very well known tv preacher...giving his service....
this preacher has in the 1/2 hour preached on 2 verses of scripture.
this preacher is preaching to the congregation and he all of a sudden starts to speak in an unintelligable language...what some call tongues...
then he continues with his service, without missing a beat....
the unknown tongues shows up again and again he continues on as if nothing has happened and finishes.
is this proper and OK to do as according to what you guys believe?
I'm trying to understand the rules.... |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.136.27.225
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
|
Ezekiel,
I don't get T.V., we just watch DVD/VHS at our house.
What are doing watching those nuts on TBN anyway?
I think most of them are nuts!
With my, and I think most Pentecostal ministers interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14 this evangelist is out of order, especially if it isn't his own church!
Evangelist can be rather different sometimes though....?
Erich |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 806
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:43 am: |
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I don't get TBN
yes it is his own church.....
are you sure Paul isn't teaching that ....
.....don't do that cause people will think your nuts and no one will believe you....
cause that is the effect IMHO....
but I do wish to remain polite and constructive.
I will not call what you presume to be a gift from God, any derogatory name....
and to reiterate...I believe in the Gifts....all of them....I just don't think that it is time for This one yet and that EVERY ONE will understand it when it is from God! I still hold to the translation of 'tongues' as 'languages'
the KJV3 translates it this way and I agree.
So does the strongs concrodance.
The word tongues simply means 'foreigner's language'...a language that the preacher of the Good News was not born with....nothing about a prayer language.....accept that we all should pray in the Spirit....I do not relate the 2 together...prayer language and praying in the Spirit are different things to me.
I hold to the contention that Paul is speaking of bringing an interpretor along with you if you preach to another language group / region...otherwise those listening wouldn't understand you...nor know when to say even AMEN!...if you spoke english in China...only God and the angels would understand you...not the people for which the message was sent! And he goes on to say that God is not the author of confusion.
Now...you know that I do not think that this is the Gift of Tongues as the bible describes....
If you called it only a prayer language and not the Gift of Tongues....I would be more willing to believe you guys but
the example in Acts 2 does not supposrt what you follow.
The events in Acts 2 do however describe the same events as what Christ speaks to His desciples about...the final witness before the anti-Christ(delivered to death-death is one of his names)
this is right before the true Messiah returns.
I think this Gift is unique and special only to promote the Gospel of Christ to the nations.
And I also hold firm to the fact that the Gift of Tongues is not man speaking to God but God speaking through man to other men of all languages.
I do wish to continue nicely if anyone else wishes to.
Peace
c |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1118
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 151.199.104.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:49 am: |
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Aaron what makes you think I have changed my
liefs. Take a look at
Ephesians 4:4-7
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
What is a water baptism but a symbol of one beliefs it will not save you. The baptism God does in one's heart is the baptism that counts. In other words the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And if you really take time to research this matter you will see what I am saying. Yes empowerment of the Holy Spirit on the day of pentecost is true and still lives to day. But take a look at Acts.
Acts 1:8
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
And it Acts two they did receive power from the Holy Spirit. In Acts 10 Cornelius household received the baptism the same as the apostle before they received water baptism. Water baptism being the obedience in faith has is circumcision in the old testament. Heart circumcision is what God does in the heart of every man just like the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now do you think we disagree and if so state why aaron I would like to know. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1119
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 151.199.104.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:52 am: |
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Ezekiel you ask a good question. My response is with no interpetation it is out of order could it be real possible but when done this way I have doubts. And a preacher using two verses in scripture scare me a little. Unless references to other bible scripture is mentioned. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.205.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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tyrtle i know water baptisum does not save me or any one else. i know that i am also baptised by the SPIRIT into the body of CHRIST. i was referring to tongues nad the baptisum of THE HOLY GHOST. do you still believe in that as you one time did? oh and sorry to be writting again after i said i would no but you asked a question and i answered it. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1123
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 151.199.104.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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If you red my post you know the answer arron. I do still believe in tongues but as always not a requirement. why are you not writting you make good post. |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 820
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:12 am: |
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your brother was judging you, thinking that you no longer held to 'unknown tongues' as he does...
just to clearify!
turtle...do you see the elect as having this Gift in the tribulation?
Using this Gift when delivered up? Mat24
not one of you has explained how there is a similarity to the Gift of Tongues in the Gospels and Acts - God actually speaking through His election, where EVERY SOUL UNDERSTOOD...to some unknown language that no one understands.
I just don't get it...there is no biblical account.
I know that you profess 1Cor14 but I have excluded that as being even speaking of the same thing as what is happening in Acts
1Cor14 ......simply rules for preaching in a foreign land....bring an interpretor......
....how to be orderly and not confusing....
...and most of all explaining that their form of chanting was unacceptable......the Church at Corrinth was not behaving properly and this letter to the Church is teaching them the proper ways to pray and worship and spread the Gospel of Christ to the masses......not in confusion but in full understanding.
Where is the similarity to Joel and Acts and the Gospels.....
these are serious questions that I ask....for no one should be deceived......
Peace
in Jesus Name |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1756
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.205.23
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:48 am: |
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zeke.. i am sorry if you think i was judgeing, no i was going by what was said in the posts by one. the elect will ot be here during the tribullation as the church weill be gone and any others will come to know THE LORD and yes they could speak in tongues.
there is a difference between the speaking in a forgien lanquage and speaking in the tongues in the SPIRIT. i do not believe in what you teach concerning them either. i know that one is not saved by speaking in tongues. i do believe that tongues are an evedence of THE HOLY GHOST. i know that there are also false tongues and people who put on. but you cant judge the world by one wo doesnt do right. i am not going to change by belief about this. i know i am saved by THE BLOOD OF JESUS and that is sufficent to get me into heave. i know that i do not have to speak in tongues to be saved i know that THE HOLY GHOST abides withmin me. i know also that you will probally try to trip me up saying something about how i worded what i said.. well that wont work either. i remain your brother in THE LORD. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 151.199.104.75
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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arron the point I was trying to make in my earlier post was that the truth is we all are baptized by the Spirit of God whether we speak in tongues or not. To clearify we are saved through Christ Jesus when he suffered and died and shed his blood on the cross. But see here is the thing aaron. Most churches outside of the pentecostal movement do not talk about the baptizism of the Spirit. When you think what does that mean. Baptism of the Holy Spirit takes place in all believers where. In the heart just like circumcision of the heart. Now Their is only on baptism that is down by the Holy Ghost. Some never speak in unknown tongues but they may show other gifts of the Spirit. Born of water and born of Spirit. Born a man born of God aaron. Empowerment of the Holy Spirit is the infilling of the Holy Spirit or as we pentecostal say it the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
See arron alot of pentecostal that I know even in my own church want to claim there church is the only one that are saved. This is not true. Other church have Spirit filled believers as well.
Now concerning Ezekiel, He still never answered my questions of what he consider baptism as.
Now to answer your questions sort of I am not evading but I want one thing clear you are not looking at the whole context of the passage in Corintians 14 you are nick picking out a few verses that suit your ideas. Look at it in its entirity. Paul even claims he speaks in tongues more then anyone but. His concern was for the church and the confusion that was taking place and turning people off. Much like pentecostals today sometimes do without meaning too. Paul was explaining how importance tongues is for edifying the church but prophecy is more important for non believers. Main reason was other religions in that day in time babbled. They seen no difference in the Church of believers then they did other religions. Causing confusion. But when prophecy is given and it later comes to pass even a year down the road it will cause people to believe. |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 832
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 7:56 pm: |
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arron
quote
zeke.. i am sorry if you think i was judgeing, no i was going by what was said in the posts by one
actually arron....I am not really a nit-picker but you are being less than honest in your response and I did not expect that from you
turtle wrote
Sorry arron, know I still believe tongues is for today. But see arron i have been doing some new research on somethings. Take a look at circumcision of the heart. If you need some verses I will give them. And then take a look at the early church what does baptism mean. yes i still believe in the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues, prophecy and etc.
the word 'KNOW" is not the word 'no'
arron's response
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1738
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.39.174
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 5:32 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
turtle i am sorry you have changed your beleif. i know that i have been baptised into the body of CHRIST by THE SPIRIT, THAT I HAVE RECEIVED WATER BAPTISUM AND THAT I HAVE BEEN SPIRIT BAPTISED IN THE HOLY GHOST WITH THE EVIDENCE OF TONGUES, i am so sorry that you no longer believe this. we had some good conversations. i still like to read your posts but i want write to you anymore
this is JUDGEMENTAL arron...you though your brother no longer believed as you do and you were going to CUT HIM OFF for it!
that's judging him.....for his beliefs......
we should all be open to Christian debate with manners.
now to move on....
|
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1147
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 64.136.27.225
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:41 pm: |
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Arron,
I think that you should use more Scriptures on FACTNet to clarify your position. Statements and opinions will not change the minds of people who doubt the idea that speaking in the prayer language is always the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Scripture is needed.
Turtle, is basing her beliefs upon the context of the Word of God, not simply on her opinions. My experience is as yours, in that when I have prayed and have seen people prayed for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that the evidence has been the prayer languange of the spirit. The point that Turtle is making is that it is difficult to prove from Scripture that speaking in tongues is always the evidence, rather the evidence seems easier to show that the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit should be one of the "charimata" gifts spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12-14.
Turtle, I think I have that correct?, because you are reflecting my viewpoints.
Erich |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 834
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:16 pm: |
|
Turtle,
you have been nice and Christian like so far in discussion...
Now concerning Ezekiel, He still never answered my questions of what he consider baptism as.
turtle...I'm sorry I didn't answer you earlier...I do not recall the question as I post on multiple topics.....
what is Baptism.....
water baptism is our example....we should do this when we are able to CHOOSE God over the World
Spirit Baptism is the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the personal relationship that one has with the true ONE God, through Christ! This infilling convicts us in our soul of what is right and wrong.
The Holy Spirit resides inside of all true believers....this is what I think people are referring to as the 'born again' experience, although that is not what the text refers to when mentioning 'born again', but born from above, form heaven to earth(some entities did not do this and are sentenced to perish with their leader Satan)
But The Holy Spirit residing in one, becoming their conscience, a personal relationship with God...that's baptism.
Nothing about proving this with unknown tongues.
if we have Christ then we have what God intended and this is evident in our prayers to Him, this is praying in the Spirit for we are filled with His Holy Spirit, but we are to pray intelligently, not unintelligently or unknown.
i don't see how this is possible, to pray in a language that doesn't exist...not even an earthly language, but a language that NO ONE understands...accept maybe a preacher with an agenda, IMHO...this is not the example in ACTS 2
Peace Brothers
c |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 835
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:16 pm: |
|
I'm gonna add....
I fully believe that Speaking in the Gift of Tongues is Evidence of the Holy Spirit....
I, however, believe that that Gift is not what is being practiced at the Pentacostal (and other) churches.
The unknown tongue is not what I understand as the Gift of Tongues....
for the examples that we have of GOD speaking through the elect are in ACTS 2 and Joel, and again soon enough as described in Mat 24 among other places.
the unknown tongue is not the Gift of Tongues as described above.
This is formost on my mind for you, my brothers and sisters, to realize the difference in the accounts
ACTS 2, JOEL, MAT 24 are speaking/teaching of the Gift of Tongues...a language that EVEY person, reguardless of where they are from, UNDERSTAND what is being said, because it is the Holy Spirit speaking through one of God's elect. God Himself speaking the last Witness to the world about the Good News.....all the Good News including who comes first pretending to be Christ!
Accounts in 1Cor14 are quite different and do not fall under the same catagory.....all clearly do not understand and it is not God speaking but man praying (unknown tongues). Many call it jibberish because that is what it sounds like.
This unknown language definately does not edify God, as all who do not believe will think your crazy...nuts....and lead away from God. God's power is not UNKNOWN nor only for some and not others.
I have ASKED God for the truth on this and other subjects and the ones that I have studied dilligently on have become self evident, where as I will give an opinion 'only' about other matters that I have not fully or adequately studied..
This is not an opinion
Brothers and Sisters, I print this out of love and responsibility...
think about it |
jayhernandez
New member
Username: jayhernandez
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.21.76.35
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 1:40 am: |
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Exekiel when you get a chance go back and read my post- I responded to your post on the "Speaking in Toungs is not Babble (or something like that). I have a feeling I'm being blocked from factnet from time to time. There is suspicion that the church I went to and spoke about in that post might being doing this. I don't know but it was hard geting on today.
Have a good one man, in Christ, Jay |
ezekiel_37
Advanced Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 839
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 69.192.223.192
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 5:35 am: |
|
hi there Jay....
i would love to help you brother ....
you may have to direct me there a little clearer though....
thanks
Peace in Christ's Name
c |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 151.199.104.75
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 7:19 am: |
|
Ezekiel, I won't say I totally disagree with you on the tongue issue but we definitely agree on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Paul does not tell them to stop speaking in tongues all together not even in their private life or public but to make sure it was doen in correctly. If you go by the pnntecostal on the tv I would agree soemthing with alot of them are not right. Unknown tongues should not be uttered in the presents of unbelievers without an interpetor. And really never without interpetation given. What some do not understand is sometimes the person interpets what they spoke in tongues themselves. Only way I knew this was so was from another interpetor. But the truth be it does cause others to not understand and causes division if their is not explaination. If the interpetor that told me hadn't been my own husband. I doubt if I would of believed it. Especially once he wasn't very knowledgable about the gifts himself when we had our experience with tongues and prophecy. I think it can be real but their are so much fake stuff going on it makes God and the pentecostal churches look bad. |
jayhernandez
New member
Username: jayhernandez
Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.21.76.35
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:58 am: |
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TURTLE
I was waiting for this one to pop us and sure enough someone used Acts 1:8. Notice the word IS before the "come upon..". This does not say shall, might, could, any other word. The comma there does not seperate the context or text, nor does the word imply that they are seperate. |
jayhernandez
New member
Username: jayhernandez
Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.21.76.35
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:09 am: |
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Ezekiel
I was refering to the thread called "bable babble is not tounges.
Laters |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 151.199.104.75
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
|
Jayhernandez, This came from one of my commentaries I have.
"When the Holy Ghost is come upon you (epelthontos tou hagiou pneumatos eph' humas). Genitive absolute and is simultaneous in time with the preceding verb “shall receive” (lēmpsesthe). The Holy Spirit will give them the “power” as he comes upon them. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit referred to in Act_1:5. " by Robert's word picture. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2347
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.37.10
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:45 pm: |
|
i fully believe in the baptisum of THE HOLY GHOST with evidence of speaking in tongues. mow i do not believe this save a person for i was saved way before i recieved THE BAPTISUM OF THE HOLY GHOST neither do i belive that water baptisum saves a person for i was saved befroe i was water baptised.(IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST.) i also realize that i was bapttised by THE SPIRIT of GOD into THE BODY OF CHRIST when i got saved. this experaince of the baptisum OF THE HOLY GHOST with the evidence of tongues is an entirely different thing. it is a different moving of THE SPIRIT OF GOD in a persons life. i full realize that some may hold other ideas about this, but this is what i hold to as do all in my church (local ). i have seen it work many times over and have had GOD move for me. |
gracealone
New member
Username: gracealone
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 210.8.187.178
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:46 pm: |
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hey there arron, do u by any chance go to the potters house/door/victory chapel CFM fellowship? if so i would like to try and help you with some advice.
God bless |
gracealone
New member
Username: gracealone
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 210.8.187.178
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:48 pm: |
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hey there arron, do u by any chance go to the potters house/door/victory chapel CFM fellowship? if so i would like to try and help you with some advice.
God bless |
gracealone
New member
Username: gracealone
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 210.8.187.178
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:02 am: |
|
hey there arron, do u by any chance go to the potters house/door/victory chapel CFM fellowship? if so i would like to try and help you with some advice.
God bless |
gracealone
New member
Username: gracealone
Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 210.8.187.178
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
|
hey there arron, do u by any chance go to the potters house/door/victory chapel CFM fellowship? if so i would like to try and help you with some advice.
God bless |
gracealone
New member
Username: gracealone
Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 210.8.187.178
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:06 am: |
|
hey there arron, do u by any chance go to the potters house/door/victory chapel CFM fellowship? if so, i would like to try and help you with some advice, what you do with that advice is up to you.
God bless |
gracealone
New member
Username: gracealone
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 210.8.187.178
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:59 am: |
|
hey there arron, do u by any chance go to the potters house/door/victory chapel CFM fellowship? if so, i would like to try and help you with some advice, what you do with that advice is up to you.
God bless |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2534
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.37.10
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 1:44 pm: |
|
grace alone....NO i do not go to pottershousedoorvictry chapelcfm fellowship. i attend a pentecostal church |
mikey
New member
Username: mikey
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 65.2.112.167
| | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 9:29 pm: |
|
GOD is the same yesterday,today and forever......so if the gifts of the HOLY GHOST were there in scripture then,,,then i believe they are for today too.....tongues are a sign paul says for the unbelievers,,,1st corinthians ,,,,he also said he'd prefer they prophecy....which is also a gift of the HOLY GHOST (1st corinthians 12)...GOD is awesome,,,,,just humble yourself before HIM in your own prayer closet wherver it may be.....mine is in my living room,,,i read HIS word here and pray to HIM and hear from HIM....it does not say in order that a believer gets to heaven is by speaking in tongues or prophecying,,,,,,but by believing in HE who has come to shed HIS blood for the atonement of all sins. that HE is your SAVIOR,,,that HE is the truth and the way to the everlasting life,,,and you place your faith in that with all your heart giving thanks for HIS grace to save your soul so you would not perish...
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
amen ????? |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2902
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.241.6.69
| | Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 10:32 am: |
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i am saved, i am sanctified and i have been baptised in THE HOLY GHOST with the evidence of tongues. i have been baptised in water in THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY GHOST. i am satisfied with my experiance with THE LORD GOD i am a believer and i live right and i try not to sin or do wrong if i do then i ask forgiveness and GOD forgives me. i full y realise that this is not like some people believe or even want and will ask questions and start arguements about it but that is how i be lieve and it is not use in trying to change me or my beliefs on this for the bible says so and i beleive it. |
ezekiel_37
Senior Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 1477
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 206.186.79.91
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 5:08 pm: |
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Evidence of evil demons, arron, not God's Tongue.
Look up familiar spirits. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2915
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.241.6.69
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
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familer spirits are those who practice withcraft, and speak ventrelosium and who make up the things they say.. pentecostals dont do that neither do we have demons like some here do. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2916
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.241.6.69
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 7:21 pm: |
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so zeke you are saying that people who say they are saved, people who say they are sancitified, people who say they have THE HOLY GHOST AND SPEAK IN TONGUES have demons? are yo saved zeke? have you been born again of THE SPIRIT (THE SPIRIT OF GOD not satan) ? do you bekieve that because we say we have been forgiven we have demons.? ARE YOU CRAZY????? |
forest
New member
Username: forest
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 168.167.178.203
| | Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 8:52 am: |
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I agree with Ezekiel. The Book of Acts is a transient book. The signs and wonders shown by God in this book were for the Jews only - as they always required a sign from God. Besides, the speaking of tongues as mentioned in the Book of Acts were actual known languages - not the meaningless babbling of today's Pentecostal/Charismatic church who say that it is a sign that one has been baptised with the Holy Ghost. Many years ago I belonged to a Pentecostal/Charismatic church and was (what they call) baptised in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Today I praise God that He showed me the Truth and how deceived I was and how deceived these churches still are. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2927
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.241.6.69
| | Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 10:42 am: |
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forest.. i will tell you this since you seem to be new, although you may not be to this site, that i am pentecostal, i will stay pentecostal. i am saved first of all by THE BLOOD OF JESUS by faith in THAT BLOOD. i do speak in tongues i do beleive in the interpretation as given in acts 12 acts 14. there is no need to try to tell me it isnt real for i know it is real. i am sorry if you got involved in a cult like place and gave up what you said you had . i dont really think you were ever really in the church as id you had been you would have remained there. i will not deny THE HOLY GHOST and HIS WORKING in my life. do you not believe in the once saved always saved doctrine because they did you wrong? do you beleive in the batising in JESUS NAME only because they did you wrong? well then dont persecut the pentecostal beaus of one place |
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