| Author | Message | ||
     planetkram (planetkram) New member Username: planetkram Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 68.205.46.16 |
All you people crying that Mormons are striving to be Gods, worshipping Joe Smith, getting it on with 20 wives, reading some bogus book that "adds & takes away" from the Bible, following a prophet who lets you eat chocolate but hates coke require some basic info. - Ive ran into all of those comments on this site somewhere. Mormons ARE Christians - we worship and follow Christ and his teaching are the center of our lives. He died for us, he redeemed us and taught us to forgive. We Love God and Love our Neighbors. We teach of strong families - though sadly not all Mormon families are normal. As you know, Mormon or not, the world is full of many nutty people. Mormons teach their members to be law abiding citizens, obstain from harmful drugs and self destructive habits like pornography, gambling and swearing. - It doesnt mean ALL Mormons follow this, but they are taught this, and in general encouraged to engage in activities that will make them better people. No one is trying to become a God. We are only taught simply that if we inherit the kingdom of God that our progression is eternal and not limited, and though our peanut minds cant comprehend or wrap around this concept fully, we dont need to. - we merely have to focus on the goal at hand, which is to follow christ. Included in becoming better people is being charitable and serving others. And learning to do it automatically as christ did and not be provoked or compelled. No Mormon automatically follows these things exactly 100% without flaws, this is a life long journey of stumbling and getting back up. learning to make our imprefections perfect. The most beautiful message of christ's teachings is that we are not perfect, but through christ we can be - through repentance and continually striving to be better people. I wonder if its possible that those that dont agree with Mormonism (which is ok) calling them Cults will learn to respect The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints as a group of people that is trying to make a positive contribution in this world. All this energy and talk of trying to save Mormons from their wreched lives of torment and sin can probably be better served by witnessing to NON-christians, mean people, racists, killers, drug addicts, Pornographers, child abusers, child molestors, rude people, animal torturers, the IRS, Thieves, bullys, back-stabbers, ...whatever I think we can all agree though you may or may not agree with LDS doctrine, Mormons are the good guys - we're only trying to better ourselves and to make this a better place to live. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Planetkram, all you say sounds good, but would you first define Christ ? You seem to imply we all worship the same Jesus. It is a proven fact that the view of Jesus the Lds and orthodox Christianity have are Quite diffrent. We beleive Christ to be the same nature and subtance of the Father & the Holy Spirit : (Homo usis ) not (homo i ousis) as the Lds Have :Like nature one in purpose. John 1:1 The WORD was God ( Theos en ho Logos). In Lds theology The Father , Son & Holy Spirit are 3 seperate Gods. The God of the Bible is ONE GOD IN 3 DISTINCT PERSONS. You can do all the positive works in this world you want. But to be saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ, You must know Who he is and Confess him with your Mouth and let him reside in your Heart. You don't have the same Jesus that Bled on the Cross and possessed as his own , so that we will have ETERNAL LIFE if we beleive in HIM. JN 3:15 The Cross in mormonism was Just a tool to get you past the Grave and then your idea of progression continues. Mormons are Good -loving people just like anybody else, but they still need to here the Gospel & I Praise God I did. The Day you realize that you are never going to be perfect and turn yourself over to the grace of Christ & him Alone not any church is when your pefection begins. Steel Jude 3 | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1057 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
mormons are not christians.. they do not follow JESUS THE CHRIST but another jesus who is the brother of satan | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1058 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
i should have added they worship another jesus who they say is the brother of satan. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 263 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Robert A. Rees served as bishop of the Los Angeles First Ward. He gave a sacrament meeting talk on April 29th, 1990, and provided an article to Dialogue that is found in the Winter, 1991 issue. It is entitled, "Bearing Our Crosses Gracefully: Sex and the Single Mormon." In it we find the following: Mormons differ from other Christians in our literal belief that we are begotten of God spiritually and that Christ was begotten of him physically. Paul says in Acts that we are God's offspring (17:28-29). We believe that our spiritual conception was sexual just as we believe that Christ's mortal conception was. Elucidating the latter, James E. Talmage says, "That child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law, but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof" (1986, 81). | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 264 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443); God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321); After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354); God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.) • The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35); God is increasing in knowledge, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120); God has the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3). • God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22); God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516); We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218). Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188); There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348). (Joseph Smith's first vision) "...I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight. . ." (History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.) But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855) "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7) | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 268 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Planetkram "Mormons ARE Christians - we worship and follow Christ and his teaching are the center of our lives." From an ex mormon by Bishop R.C. Evans, Toronto Canada 1920 http://www.biblebelievers.net/Cults/Mormonism/FortyYears/kjcforty.htm [Mormonism Teaches] There Are But Two Churches In Mormon theology there are but two churches, one is the church of Christ, the other the church of the Devil. In proof of this, I will quote from the standard books of Mormonism and the leaders of that body. Hypocritical priests of Mormonism sometimes deny this and attempt to curry favor from the press and pulpit of Christianity, but it is only when they wish a favor of some kind, or desire to make inroads upon the gullibility of the people. But to the proof: "Behold, there is, save it be Two Churches: the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the Devil. Wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." Book of Mormon, page 40, First Nephi, 3 ch., v. 220-223. In the first revelation published in the book known as the Doctrine and Covenants, Jesus Christ when speaking to Joseph Smith, is reported to have said, speaking of the Mormon church, as, "The only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased." D. C. 1-5. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 582 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Nulla: the big mistake you make is that he said "the church of Christ" NOT the COJCOLDS. D&C1 DOES refer to the COJCOLDS - the quote refers to the distiction between those believing in Christ and those who do not, NOT between the COJCOLDS and other Churches - therefore your comparison is not valid | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 270 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Joesdad “whoso belongeth not to the “church of the Lamb of God” belongeth to that “great church”, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth Do you mean this was referring to a church for non believers? Joesdad “the quote refers to the distiction between those believing in Christ and those who do not,” But your church believes in a different Christ? So then I and other Christians who believe in the Christ of the holy bible are according to this statement now non believers. I go along with what your president Hinkley says re a different Christ and didn't your JS make a statement along the lines of what all other religions were about? What do Evans following statements mean then. "Since the church with its authority and power has been caught away from the earth, the great Mother of Harlots, with all her descendants, has blasphemously assumed authority of administering some of the sacred ordinances of the gospel." Revelation Necessary, by 0. Pratt. "The priesthood having been caught up to heaven, no man on earth has authority to minister in gospel ordinances, and hence the necessity for new revelation." Presidency and Priesthood, page 224. This person “Evans” having been ordained to seven different offices in the Mormon Priesthood, from Priest to the Presidency of the church, was a member for 40 years yet in your view he does not seem to know what he was talking about. Heaven help then those he did teach and instruct over the forty year period and what they then have passed on. Nulla | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 585 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Nulla: looking at the bigger picture, those who believe in Christ are "of the Church of Christ", Though I suggest that this is a spiritual matter and may well exclude many who proclaim a belief, the savioour encouraging us not do do our alms in public being the reference for this. Anything else is down to bigots who pretend that others who in fact do proclaim a belief in Christ are not Christians - you od that with me. However, as I know i believe in Christ, you will simply be left chasing your tail. Within the Church of Christ there are many many groups, churches etc who then set about pulling christs teachings to pieces in an attempt to gratify their own idea of what is "truth". As for what Evans says, again the problem may in fact be your lack of understanding of LDS doctrine, which instead of causing you to discover the answer, you take the easier route of claiming it to contracdict that doctrine of whcih your are ignorant. You need to go back to the beginning, actually study LDS doctrine, and then come back with a properly reasoned comment. This is not an attack on you, just upon the methods you have employed to obtain your information of LDS beliefs. Robert | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1301 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
Nothing changes, does it? jd back to saying we don't understand mormon doctrines. Why is it so easy to say that, and yet impossible for a mormon to explain those doctrines? planet, don't you have a copy of the mormon manual, Gospel Principles? It clearly says men will become gods. These are the words of joseph smith, not the Holy Bible, and in fact, not even the words of the bom. Why is the bom teaching so different from further mormon prophet's teachings, even joe smith's, re: bom one God, joe smith, many gods? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1302 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
Does anyone know of a Christian church that teaches people to drink, use drugs, hate their neighbor, not pay tithe, be faithful to one wife, etc.? What mormons teach about morals came long before js started his church. Even wiccans and satanists will tell you they are nice, clean, hardworking, honest people. So what's the point? The major difference is the mormon belief in multiple gods and their ficticious book about history. The only good things in the bom are those copied word for word from the Bible. How on the one hand can mormons accept portions of the Bible. Why not take the copied words from the Bible out and see what is left? A story any person could write. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 586 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Again, the difficulty is not for us to explain, but for you to bother realising that your false ideas of us are just wrong. Once you acknowledge that, and begin trying to discover what we ACTUALLY believe, then your may get somewhere, otherwise you will just end up with a headache trying to work out why the rubbish you think we believe is not the same as what we say we believe - your problem, not ours. Again, you overlook the true relationship between, the Bible, the BoM and latter-day revelation as we believe them to be. You have decided how they MUST relate to each other, which is so different from how we do see them, you are commenting on doctrines that do not even exist. Worst of all, is that I reckon (and always have) thtat you are well aware of this and are simply here to cause strife, contention and confusion. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1304 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
jd, you just go ahead and keep calling what I say rubbish. It doesn't change the facts at all. Your reckonings are wrong. When I copy word for word from books that are published by the mormon church and used by mormon teachers and leaders, and you still don't want to face facts, that is your own personal problem. It is only when you let go of your pride that you may (I won't say 'will') eventually see that the lds church is on every cult list available, along with Jehovah Witnesses, witchcraft, satanism, and the rest. If I were you, I would start wondering why and do an open-minded investigation. Any and all comments I make about the lds church are only the tip of the iceberg as to evidence that the mormon church is a cult. I'm sorry you consider this a personal insult to you. To me you are only one of many deluded people. I can't take your choices from you anymore than you can from me. So stop trying. Instead, try responding to the allegations with lds evidence. If you can't, don't expect anyone with a serious problem with your church to stop listening because you call me a liar or whatever else you want to use in order to cover your butt. If the lds church were true, they would not need you to convince others of the fact. If Jesus is your God, why do you pray to Heavenly Father? You don't believe in one God, that's the fact you deny. You didn't respond to one thing I stated above. I know it is because you can't. So continue in your small way to attack me. It only goes to show it is YOU who does not know or are lying about your church's doctrine. Here's another question I'll bet you can't answer. Since the lds believes it is joe smith who will decide who enters the gates of heaven, why don't you pray to him and stop pretending mormonism has anything to do with the God of the Holy Bible. Does the bom or does it not say there is one God, many, many times? I don't expect you to answer. So go ahead and attack me. I will keep asking the questions. Get over it. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 588 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Copying words does not mean you understand them - that is YOUR problem. Copying words, understanding them, yet pretending they mean something else that is YOUR problem. What exactly are these supposed "cult lists" meant to achieve? Nothing I said took any of your ill thought out comments as being personal to me. How can there be evidence to refute something that exists only in YOUR mind? Are we not told in the NT to pray to God in Chrsits name, not to pray to Christ? "Here's another question I'll bet you can't answer. Since the lds believes it is joe smith who will decide who enters the gates of heaven, why don't you pray to him and stop pretending mormonism has anything to do with the God of the Holy Bible." Problem with your question, is that it is based upon another one of your fake facts - wake up. "Does the bom or does it not say there is one God, many, many times? I don't expect you to answer." Easy answer, yes it does, as do I and the LDS Church. It is sad that you can't just accept that, but instead beat yourself up trying to pretend we do not. Can you think of ONE good reason why I would lie about LDS doctrine, and anything I could achieve by doing so? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1308 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
I can ask the same question. Why would I lie about lds doctrine? If you think I get some kind of charge out of this, think what you want, I don't. You would lie because you live in a house of cards, so fragile it would all tumble down if you had to face the truth. It's no different than a child finding out, for example, his father is a murderer. The child will not admit it nor stop loving the person they think their father was. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 272 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Joesdad "As for what Evans says, again the problem may in fact be your lack of understanding of LDS doctrine, which instead of causing you to discover the answer, you take the easier route of claiming it to contracdict that doctrine of whcih your are ignorant." Joesdad… this means that Evans as well had a lack of understanding and was ignorant to your doctrine for forty years. If I am quoting him and supplying the source can you please then explain his reason to come to this conclusion and not mine? http://www.biblebelievers.net/Cults/Mormonism/FortyYears/kjcforty.htm Regarding this comment: “You need to go back to the beginning, actually study LDS doctrine, and then come back with a properly reasoned comment. This is not an attack on you, just upon the methods you have employed to obtain your information of LDS beliefs.” That is a typical cult reply… one used on a continual denial basis on one of the Branch Davidian sites when you ask questions. This site has now taken away its forum or question option and has now posted. From the Seven Seals site “If a person decides not to read the book, his or her fate will be to perish by plagues of sores, anarchy, famine, and death.” “When a person encounters this book, his or her life will have reached the greatest of all crossroads. There are two paths before this person. One path is wide and smooth. A person might reject this new doctrine and take the smooth path to avoid being mocked or persecuted by worldly people. The other path is narrow and bumpy. A person who accepts this new doctrine will be mocked and persecuted for his or her new claim of faith. Only those who are of a certain mind are willing to remove their spiritual chains that bind them to the cares of this world. This book is the key that will attempt to release kindred minds from mainstream society’s prison house, where many are crowding.” “When a non-believing individual cannot present a sound scriptural argument to refute this book, he or she might resort to attacking the character of the messenger, his message, or those with him. “ Before this when I asked a question on the forum they would reply that I need to read the book over and over… go back to the beginning and when you have fully understood then you will see etc etc.…. Brainwashing tactics. I ask as well, the passage I quoted of Nephi and its following passages on the same page are referring to the church of the lamb of God. I ask then if the BoM is not directed at Mormons or prospective mormons then who was Nephi referring to as believers and non believers in other words. Who are those in the church of the lamb of god and who are those in the other church of “that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth” Orson Pratt’s comments on the passage: “"Since the church with its authority and power has been caught away from the earth, the great Mother of Harlots, with all her descendants, has blasphemously assumed authority of administering some of the sacred ordinances of the gospel." And Evans; “We could fill a large volume in support of the above positions, but let it be sufficient for me to say, that the position taken by the Mormon church of every stripe, is, that the church as established by Christ fell into apostasy, lost the priesthood, or authority to preach the gospel and administer in the ordinances of the church, and that the Roman Catholic Church is the Mother of Harlots, and the Protestant churches are her daughters, all imposters devoid of priesthood authority, and hence form [page 62] the Church of the Devil, while Joseph Smith and others have been called of God by direct revelation from heaven and some of them have been ordained by Angels to administer the gospel and work the works of God, as directed by direct revelation.” You see Joesdad, that once you leave the LDS you still have Christianity to return to. You cannot be a mormon and a Christian at the same time for the doctrine of the LDS is not Christian. Its not that it’s a bit different in certain areas its not Christian fullstop. I cannot stop being say… a catholic and then say I am still a Christian and still read the Bible as well as the BoM and the BoA and I swear by the Watch Tower for they go hand in hand and one compliments the other. This man Evans once denouncing the LDS was as normal persecuted for going public with his story. His wealth of knowledge is by the looks of it seen by you as nothing more than ANTI mormon. | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1247 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
the mormon church is a cult. they teach they are the true church. if that were true there would be no other way except mormonism. they have extra writtings which is wrong for all revalations as far as writtne one is complete. they cahnge their prophets and take the other ones word as true regardless of what the one before said. they believe that the kivning prophet is better words than the dead one. truly they are a cult. we know that only they who come to JESUS BY FAITH IN HIS BLOOD ARE SAVED we do not come by joseph smith. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 567 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Nahhh - that does not make sense, if that was the case, the logical thing for me to do would be not post here at all, and ignore all the false stuff attacking me and my beliefs. However you have a much more obvious reason and agenda - so many years after either leaving or being exed from the Church you still have yet to discover a firm reason for whcih you can blame the Church, rather than simply accept responsibility for your own actions, deal with it and get on with your life without the Church. You keep coming back to take pot shots, and along the way, beacuse you canlt find anything to justify your actions, you falsify and change facts to suit your needs. Nulla: "That is a typical cult reply" - in other words, I am satisfied in pretending I know the truth, despite being told I am wrong, and can't be arsed to actually discover the truth because that would be uncomfortable for me. Correct? As I say, it is not you I question as I do not know you, but the plain and obvious fl;aws in the way you seek to obtain information - that is as clear as the nose on your face (which I have not seen but assume you still have, despite what appears to be a trait in yourself to sut it off to spite your face!!  ) Again you hide behind the pretence of my not being Christian to excuse the way you negligently acquire and distribute improperly researched information. When you were at school and were stuck on say a maths problem, did your teacher expect you to discover the answer with their HELP, or did they just lean over you and write the answer without encouraging you, or explaining WHY that was the answer. If the latter, were you being brainwashed? Then you answer you own question - if Evans IS denouncing the LDS Church, what motivation whatsoever has he for ensuring doctrine he comments upon is set out in a sensible or reasoned manner. until you HAVE bothered to discover what we believe, this can be done from LDS sites without your having to be in contact with anyone that might transfix and then brainwash you, you can then compare THAT to what Evans says, and come to a reasoned comclusion rather than just taking his word for it. Is that not just simply sensible? Arron: Much of what you say I can agree with. Robert I can't get through to that site, have you an alternative address I can try, or get to it from? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 255 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
You assume Joesdad that I cannot come to a reasonable conclusion because I do not agree with you. No matter how many mormon sites I go to if they are pro mormon of coarse they are going to disagree. I am as qualified as you in christianity Robert and anything that pretends to be christian I will stand up against. Prove to me that I am wrong then Joesdad. Show me the plain and obvious flaws that I am making or showing... instead of directing me to other sites and further studies thus avoiding to answer the questions I asked. Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2179 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
jd, You said you had been excommunicated, not I. The reason I left was I found true salvation from the Holy Word of God. There is absolutely nothing to stop me from going back to mormonism if I wanted to. I don't, as I now worship the true God and He sustains me as the lds never did and never could. Nulla, steel and I have both explained our interest in mormonism is our because we have family members we pray for. If we can't help them see the truth, my hope is someone who may be indoctrinated, will be warned. In fact, just one hour ago I was able to do just that. As I speak, I am in CA with my terminally ill friend. Her sister asked what I do on the computer and I explained about factnet and that I used to be a mormon, and that it is a cult. She was so glad to hear what I had to say because they have been befriending her children and trying to get them to go to the mormon church. When I told her the mormon belief that men will be gods and women goddesses and that they practiced polygamy, she thanked me for telling her. Not because of what I said, but she knew immediately this is not biblical. I thank God for this kind of opportunity and will continue to do so until the Lord takes me home. Will my Christian friends please pray for my friend as she is in her last hours or at the most a few days. She is a Christian girl and her mother is very happy that I can be here with them. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2180 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
jd, You said you had been excommunicated, not I. The reason I left was I found true salvation from the Holy Word of God. There is absolutely nothing to stop me from going back to mormonism if I wanted to. I don't, as I now worship the true God and He sustains me as the lds never did and never could. Nulla, steel and I have both explained our interest in mormonism is our because we have family members we pray for. If we can't help them see the truth, my hope is someone who may be indoctrinated, will be warned. In fact, just one hour ago I was able to do just that. As I speak, I am in CA with my terminally ill friend. Her sister asked what I do on the computer and I explained about factnet and that I used to be a mormon, and that it is a cult. She was so glad to hear what I had to say because they have been befriending her children and trying to get them to go to the mormon church. When I told her the mormon belief that men will be gods and women goddesses and that they practiced polygamy, she thanked me for telling her. Not because of what I said, but she knew immediately this is not biblical. I thank God for this kind of opportunity and will continue to do so until the Lord takes me home. Will my Christian friends please pray for my friend as she is in her last hours or at the most a few days. She is a Christian girl and her mother is very happy that I can be here with them. | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
It's so funny when people jump from cult to cult, and yes people you are all in a cult one way or another (look below). they think they have found the true GOD each time.. A cult is an organization for the conduct of ritual, magical, or other religious observances. Many so-called primitive tribes, for example, have ancestor cults, in which dead ancestors are considered divine and activities are organized to respect their memory and invoke their aid. A cult is also a religious group held together by a dominant, often charismatic individual, or by the worship of a divinity, an idol, or some other object | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 259 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.0.155.232 |
GC. Mormons forget that it is their policy to have its members doorknock or stand in Shopping Centres and attempt to encourage people to leave the teachings of the bible and Jesus. They purposely fail to tell what they really teach let alone hide facts on such subjects as polygamy and other church history. You can become a member and still know little about the LDS. If your not a member you have no right to question the church. If you do you are labelled anti mormon. If we as christians had nothing to disagree with the lds about it would be because they have never exposed their beliefs or that they did not differ from the Holy Bible. It isn’t because some Christian activist broke into the LDS HQ and discovered the church history and its doctrine. It is because mormons who tell us we are wrong and they are right and that whatever we as christians believed in before JS was incorrect. I believe any person has the right to believe in what they choose, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon, Jehovah Witness. But if you want to say that you are Christian when in fact your are a cult hiding behind the Christian banner then we not only have the right to defend the Holy Bible but are obligated as good Christians to defend it. | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
NULLA get clue your in a cult 2..and what bible is the holy one? A cult is an organization for the conduct of ritual, magical, or other religious observances. Many so-called primitive tribes, for example, have ancestor cults, in which dead ancestors are considered divine and activities are organized to respect their memory and invoke their aid. A cult is also a religious group held together by a dominant, often charismatic individual, or by the worship of a divinity, an idol, or some other object | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2181 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.68.4.155 |
zccvbnm, You should be on the atheism thread. There is nothing you can say to the Christians exposing mormonism here that will be anymore valuable than spit. Save yourself some time. Once a person is a Christian, there is nothing that can turn us from God; especially someone who does not understand that God is the Creator and not an idol. If you support mormonism, why not just come right out and say so. Otherwise, your comments mean zilch. Christians do not worship men. Perhaps you should read the Bible, then come back for some intelligent conversation. | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
this counts 4 all religions.. A cult is an organization for the conduct of ritual, magical, or other religious observances. Many so-called primitive tribes, for example, have ancestor cults, in which dead ancestors are considered divine and activities are organized to respect their memory and invoke their aid. A cult is also a religious group held together by a dominant, often charismatic individual, or by the worship of a divinity, an idol, or some other object | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
Once a person is a Christian, there is nothing that can turn us from God.. OK, now your talking out your a**.. a million Christians leave the church and god every year.. try again | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 260 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
zxcvbnm; Its obvious by your posts that you are an athiest. an atheist can ask a theist to prove there is a god and his case can seem strong and you then can say it is faith alone... or you could say I do not have to prove something does not exist that has not been proven to exist. I ask you this.... How do you know there is no god? To simply say god has not been proven to exist does not mean he does not exist. It is your belief he doesn’t It is my belief he does. Is there intelligent life on other planets? Nulla | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 261 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
"OK, now your talking out your a**.. a million Christians leave the church and god every year.. try again" You may have stats that show a number of people leaving a church. Because they leave a church tell me how you know they also leave god. Nulla | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 571 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Nulla: A reasonable conclusion can only be brought about by efort to appreciate the subject you make the conclusion about - you do not do this, regardless of whether you agree with me or not. See my comments on your Joseph adultery claim on the other thread - not just flaws, but total incompetence. OK? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 263 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Nulla: A reasonable conclusion can only be brought about by efort to appreciate the subject you make the conclusion about - you do not do this, regardless of whether you agree with me or not. I ask again for you stated "the quote refers to the distiction between those believing in Christ and those who do not, NOT between the COJCOLDS and other Churches - therefore your comparison is not valid" I ask what is the church of the lamb? What is the Church is the Mother of Harlots Nulla | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
there is no god.. you all have faith in lies. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 270 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
I ask you this.... How do you know there is no god? Show me the lies I have faith in. You continue to make statements but chose not to answer questions. For you to state there is no god means you have the universe under your own control and can see and know everything that there is to do with it Tell me how is it possible for you to know there is no god? Or is this something someone told you or something you have read that you now believe to be the truth? | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
look around can't you tell. your so blinded by the faith it clouds the truth. OK.. if god is real why does he allow evil. he is all powerful and could stop it. why did god's miracles only happen back in the so called biblical time. if god is need at any time threw out histroy the time is now. please enlighten me | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 272 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Please answer my question. You are the person coming here with all the statements. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST???????? If you can show me how you know that he does not exist we will continue. If you want me to stop beleiving in him then tell me how you know? If you can't tell me how you know he does not exist then why are you here complaining that we beleive he does? It is not I stating to you that you are wrong it is you saying we are wrong. When you can tell me how you know he does not exist then IT WILL BE YOU WHO WILL ENLIGHTEN THE WORLD AND NOT JUST ME. Nulla | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) Junior Member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
do you even read? look at what i say above.. your question is answered within | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 273 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
So you cannot tell me how you know that god does not exist? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 274 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
You are avaoiding and backstepping my question which you have failed to answer. It is you who has some trouble in your reading. So for the records of this thread I will ask again HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST????????? | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Junior Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
I know that God does not exist. I have never seen or heard him, or it. My intellect tells me that the concept of god is man made. Im ok with that. I dont care about life after death. And if you say that god wrote the bible, and the bible says that eve came from adams rib, that moses parted the red sea, jesus rose from the dead, etc., I rest my case. There is the proof that there is no god. God would not be that stupid. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 275 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Show me the proof that there is no god. You can say you rest your case, thats the easy way out. Telling me your intellect tells you so does nothing to prove your case. Show me where I said God wrote the bible? Bluewater; "There is the proof that there is no god. God would not be that stupid. So you have a theory about what the intelligence level of God should be? You say your concept of god is man made. Is your concept of atheism and the universe without a god man made? Or did this theory somehow come about before man existed? I ask again, How do you know that there is no god? Neither you Bluewater or your mate have told me how you know for sure | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Junior Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
I form my beliefs based on results, often harsh, but always fair. There is nowhere on this planet an accurate discription of what god is that is embraced by all. The Bible, which is supposed to be the "inspired word" of god is a mass of contradicting and bizarre fables that is so easily missunderstood that there are over 300 different denominations of "Christianity" that claim different interpretations of various parts of it. I also never said you said that God wrote the bible, I said IF god wrote the bible. The fact that there are so many gods, goddesses, one god, multi god, no god worshipping civilizations throughout history and that so much death has been carried out in the name of god is all the evidence I need that MAN CREATED GOD TO HELP HIM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SCIENCE COULDN'T TELL HIM. God is a concept, an idea, a bandaid that many use to cover an open wound. And I am glad that the bandaid is there for those who need it. Most don't, accept that, Nulla. In my opinion, BibleGod as described in the GOOD BOOK is a mean old man. He didn't do much to protect those at Haum's Mill, did he? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 276 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
I would like to make the following point which I find very humorus. Atheists seem to spend more time in their life dealing with god than some good Christians I know. Take your first four words “I form my beliefs” so this is all your beliefs? I was immediately disappointed…But I read on hoping you would show me the proof that you know god does not exist. Bluewater; “There is nowhere on this planet an accurate discription of what god is that is embraced by all.” So you have been over this planet and the immediate cosmos to come to this conclusion . “The Bible, which is supposed to be the "inspired word" of god is a mass of contradicting and bizarre fables” What proof is this that god does not exist? My Hindu brother sitting next to says this means nothing to him as well. The fact that there are so many gods, goddesses, one god, multi god, no god worshipping civilizations throughout history and that so much death has been carried out in the name of god is all the evidence I need that MAN CREATED GOD TO HELP HIM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SCIENCE COULDN'T TELL HIM. God is a concept, an idea, a bandaid that many use to cover an open wound. Here you tell me that death is carried out in the name of god and that god is a creation of man. If you are correct, then if all the other deaths in the history of mankind are not carried out in the name of god then the atheists have a lot to account for. This shows clearly that death is not carried out in the name of anyone. And is not your “no god” worshiping called atheism? Due to the size of the post I have to cut in two… nulla | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 277 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
part 2... read above Prove that god did not exist before man then the latter part of the mentioned passage is true otherwise that’s a poor attempt, for I only have to say that man did not create god and we are back to where we were before you came here to make your atheist statements. “In my opinion, BibleGod as described in the GOOD BOOK is a mean old man. He didn't do much to protect those at Haum's Mill, did he? The very first three words are exactly what your whole post is about. Its your opinion. Its your belief that god does not exist. Its my belief he does. You come here telling us that we are wrong. How has anything that you have said proven to me that you know that god does not exist. Maybe your anti Christian or anti bible. If this is the case and you have something to complain about then that’s fine, lets debate…. But on another forum as this is really a topic specific section here on the Mormon forum and I think my mormon friends are going to loose patience with me taking up so much space. If you open a new forum here on factnet then let me know… happy to debate the subject of Christianity with you. But if your argument is purely atheist then your case that you have displayed to me is very very shallow and its your opinion, not proof in any form. You need to prove to me that you know how the universe was created…. for that is what God gets back to. He either was around before the big bang or not. Even if you have the scientific data to prove the origin of the universe.. it is man made, or am I missing something? … maybe if there are other living life forms in the universe that man meets in the far off future, their theory to will be Alien made. So how can your theory “MAN CREATED GOD TO HELP HIM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SCIENCE COULDN'T TELL HIM” prove to me that god does not exist. If you wish to try again I will ask the question for you in case you have forgot. How do you know that god does not exist?? And being a good Christian speaking to an atheist and not wanting to offend you, May you have a nice day without the need to think of a non existing object that seems to take up so much of your time…. Nulla (Message edited by nulla on January 21, 2006) (Message edited by nulla on January 21, 2006) | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 52 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
nulla ”Atheists seem to spend more time in their life dealing with god than some good Christians I know.” I enjoy discussing the idea of god, or the lack of one. I find it interesting. ”So you have been over this planet and the immediate cosmos to come to this conclusion.” I am well traveled, yes. And I love science and the truths that it gives us. ”What proof is this that god does not exist?” God would not be involved in the writing of such a dysfunctional book. ”If you are correct, then if all the other deaths in the history of mankind are not carried out in the name of god then the atheists have a lot to account for.” All people, whether in the name of god or not, who kill have something to account for. But I think that killing in the name of a mythical diety is worse than killing for the sake of killing. I’m sure you know that good Mormon Dan Lafferty. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 278 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
None of what you say is proof. What proof of no god did you find in your travels that covered every single part of earth and the cosmos from people of mountains in the New Guinea … to the natives of South America… etc etc etc get real my friend, what you say is not possible to mortal man. your posts are filled with your theory of your belief but sorry mate that does not prove god does not exist. If it did you would find yourself on the front page of every newspaper I will tell you what a guru in the foothills of the Himalayas told me on my first trip to India. If you have come here to look for the Starship Enterprise (God) then you first had a perception of this Starship thing (god) otherwise you would not be here. At one time in this universe there was not that perception. So what you know is from something you learnt, be it from man or another source. So in your mind you have a perception of what the starship enterprise (god) looks like. Your search may be for the reason of proving this starship or this god that resides in your mind exists or does not exist, but whichever way you look at it you are still searching for that Starship Enterprise. Good luck Bluewater in your search for God. Nulla | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 56 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
It seems that you are the one on the search for god. I am not. I am at fact-net whose stated purpose is ". . . is to provide an open forum for people to present their personal experiences in a safe environment regarding the "cult watch" and "mind control watch" related topics. . ." I am here to help those on this forum get out of and inform others about cults. You are either here to do the same or find a way out yourself. Or are you using this site to grandstand your beliefs in an attempt to discredit those who are here, like me, to help those involved in cults, like Christianity, Mormonism, (this thread started out with "Mormonism is not a cult", yet you are here trying to get me to prove that god does not exist), etc. And yes, as your guru says, god looks different to different people which supports my belief that the concept of god is manmade. Thank you. Go start another thread called "Prove god is real" and I will join you there and help you in your search for validation. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 280 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Bluewater. "this thread started out with "Mormonism is not a cult", yet you are here trying to get me to prove that god does not exist" go back and read the thread and see that I was not the one to start the no god topics in this thread and in fact said that the thread was getting off topic re mormonism. I wrote "Maybe your anti Christian or anti bible. If this is the case and you have something to complain about then that’s fine, lets debate…. But on another forum as this is really a topic specific section here on the Mormon forum and I think my mormon friends are going to loose patience with me taking up so much space. If you open a new forum here on factnet then let me know… happy to debate the subject of Christianity with you. You now feel that I am grandstanding to try and discredit people. You and you atheist mate came here telling us on a mormon thread that god does not exist. How is that grandstanding. Quite the opposite. Telling me to go start another thread. I really think that shows you are not reading things Bluewater. I do not want to discuss the no god thing here. I have no need to start another thread for I am not against atheists. But I am agaisnt them if they come along telling me that there is no god when I am not jumping into their life telling them there is. If you wish to continue discussions on this thread re mormons and cults... happy to do so. Nulla | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
When someone starts a thread that says "Mormonism is not a cult," I am reading that as a challenge to those that believe it is. That is what drew me into this thread. I will simply state that I believe that it is one of many cults under the banner of the overall Christian cult. Very perverted and intolerant. I have just finished reading an incredible book called "Under The Banner of Heaven," a must read for everyone who is a Mormon, although I know they would not, and all other Christians who want to understand the methods and the motives behind the developement of all Christian denominations, which I am also sure they are not interested in. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 283 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Thanks for the Book Reference. Can you please give me further details on it. Nulla | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 60 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
Nulla, Not too flattering, but very interesting. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385509510/002-0647134-6150432?v=glance&n=283155 | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Thanks Bluewater2 I am going to chase it up for availability here in Aust. Sounds interesting... have you read it all yet? Nulla | ||
| bluewater2 (bluewater2) Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
Yes I have read it, just recently. It is a "new" religion, by comparison to mainstream xianity, but created with the same motivations; a promise of salvation if you do x,y and z. Essentially, mind control implemented by strict adherence to doctrine. I think they all sell short mankinds ability to think and reason for themselves if given the opportunity. It's all about power and greed. There is no way that Joseph Smith was motivated by good intentions, especially when you know about who he was and what he was doing before he "found the golden tablets." And this is recent history with lots of verifiable sources, not just the Mormon Bible. The New Testament was created with the same motivations, by the same types of people, for the same reasons. The sad thing is that so many of the followers of Mormon/Christianity are just empty people searching for meaning who have never understood that God came from man, not man from God. If these people understood this they would begin to trust themselves and not fall prey to these charletons. BTW, I have been to the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake and it is disgusting in it's ostentatiousness. sp? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2191 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.44.92 |
Have you ever been with a person who was dying before your eyes. I have just returned home after spending three weeks with my best friend and her family. She died on Thursday evening. She is a Christian lady but was very quiet about it. She had more friends and people who love her than any one person I have ever known. But she was afraid of death. I am so thankful that I was able to be with her at all times and help her deal with those fears, because God was with us. The first week she was lucid and we were able to discuss many things. The second week she was becoming dellusional at times. I began talking to her about heaven and her everlasting life with no more of the pain she bore. We prayed together often and I read to her Helen Steiner Rice's book of poetry. As the days went on she became more peaceful. She simply stopped breathing. Two days before she died, she cried out, "I'm free!" Tina was 46 years old. She had been an independant, strong woman who traveled the world, skiied in Germany, walked the streets of Paris, served in the Army, and stayed strong and independant after losing her sight to meningitis in 1996. She gave everyone who met her a beautiful smile, and her concern was never for herself, but for others. I thank God He is here for us always, especially in death. How sad I am for people who think they can depend on their own strength's at times like these. I wonder what they think during their last moments. Do they think they can heal themselves? Can they lean on theirself? Do they think their life was fulfilled? These last few weeks I know that Tina was in God's refining fire, preparing her for the glory His presence brings her now. Go with God, Tina. I know we will be together again to laugh and talk and reminisce. You have inspired me to greater things than myself. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 294 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
This has been a real spriritual experience for you GC that has strenthened your faith. I pray for your friend as I pray for you for being such a great friend to someone when true friends matter most. Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2192 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.44.197 |
Nulla, Thank you for your prayers. Tina's family expressed so much thanks to me, but it is I who was blessed to be a part of such a beautiful experience for a child of God. Christian's need not fear death. I have seen with my own eyes the marvelous work that our Lord does. I am rejoicing for her though I miss her earthly presence already. I have received a great gift and also a new family and friends. God loves us so much it is incomprehensible. | ||
| bluerobin (bluerobin) New member Username: bluerobin Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 129.130.38.8 |
******* Christ Died For Sinners. ******* As strange as it sounds, Mormons believe that when Jesus died on the CROSS, he destroyed many, much like the God Zeus on top of mount Olympus, even to the throwing of lightning bolts. (Read: Book of Mormon, III Nephi Chapter 8-9.) This chronological event was suppose to be at the time of Christ death, even before his resurrection, which means that he was a ghost or something, or a spirit without flesh and bone, destroying more than 14 cities in wake of such glaring darkness, that no light could penetrate. Then comes a voice, the destruction is claimed by no other than by Jesus Christ himself. (...is this the a savior who just gave of his life to save sinners? or just a book.) Moreover, any religion that preaches that Christ destroyed sinners on the day he died for sinners is simply not born of God and doesn't understand the New Testament gospel teaching, because preaching such destruction of sinners would contradict the reason Christ went to the cross in the first place. And I wish to mention of Christ own ministry of love and teaching he showed over the masses, his forgiving of the harlot, the recieving of the thief next to him, the opening of the eyes of the blind, and his prayer of forgiveness for the Romans who crucified him, a refusal of vinegar when he thirst, telling the women to "do weep not for me." All this doesn't sound like Christ is about to destroy anybody, but indeed suffers for another cause. Our sins. No man can be saved by a messiah who destroys men. This is the reason why the Mormons can never be regarded as true believers in Christ, no matter how many times they mention his name. "The thief cometh not, but to kill and to destroy." Gospel of John Rp for Christ | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2762 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.10 |
RP for Christ, Well said. Thank you. If anyone does a study of mormonism, they will see that mormons believe the atonement was in the garden of Gethsemane, and not on the cross. It has even been suggested by some mormon theologians, that Jesus never died on the cross, but 'got away' somehow. Mormons do not teach 'the cross'. In fact, they avoid it as often as possible. They do not understand because they believe Jesus was just another man who became a god. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2763 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.10 |
Only God has foreknowledge. We study 'for knowledge' which brings wisdom. Mormons, by saying they were spirits in heaven, and Jesus and Lucifer's brothers, claim foreknowledge they do not have. | ||
| iru (iru) New member Username: iru Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 4.242.87.242 |
(Message edited by iru on February 25, 2006) | ||
| iru (iru) New member Username: iru Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 4.242.87.242 |
I am mormon. I believe in God and Jesus Christ. Stop tring to twist the truth about Mormons!!! | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1600 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
iru.... do you believe that you will one day be a god? do you beleive that JESUS nad satan are brothers? do you believe that JESUS IS THE ARCHANGEL MICHEAL? do you believe the bible when it say whosoever adds too the words.... ? do you believe that the book of mormon is right? GOD said not to add to the words.. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 373 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
What truth are we twisting IRU? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2812 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.41.53 |
nulla, Have you seen the new format at cultbusters.com.au? You should check it out. I see you post on the am/sc threads. Do you agree that many of their (rascist) doctrines and (little gods) doctrine is very similar to mormonism. I think am and js must have read the same books. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 374 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
I signed up the other day... thanks. Its funny you mentioned that. It came accross my mind when I was reading something about enoch, that I then associated AM with JS. I was not able to read the whole document yet but will later. Also the fact is that AM says what he likes and does not have to answer to it. His followers cannot see one fault in the guy and thats scary enough. He promises a different path to god but still wants to be called christian. Its followers think that all other beliefs are incorrect if you challenge them they class you as a son of Satan. Its like Mormons class those who question their beliefs as anti mormon yet they are the ones who claimed all other churches are wrong and that only through JS and the BoM can one get to heavan, yet they cannot see that as being anti christian. I wonder if mormons were to visit am threads and post stating they do not agree that Eve had Sex with a serpent and were then labelled anti-Shepherds Chapel would they feel it as amusing as we do by being labelled anti mormon. | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1611 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
iru still waiting for an answer to my post on feb 25th 2006 | ||
| crusader New member Username: crusader Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 164.64.226.19 |
It's a shame that Mormons actually believe they are worshipping the true God. In actuality, I have found that Christians sometimes actually know more about true Mormon doctrine than the average Mormon. My dear friend, a Mormon, denies, for instance that Mormonism teaches that God was once a man, or that Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer in pre-mortality. She became a Mormon because of all the gooey-agape stuff, and because they are politically conservative. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3195 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.40.99 |
crusader, Please ask your friend if she has read any of the books written by mormon leaders. But first, ask her what they told her in the investigaters classes. I would like to show that contrary to what mormons deny here, the missionaries do not teach these things when they are trying to draw you into coming to their church. | ||
| crusader New member Username: crusader Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 164.64.226.19 |
Godchild, I no longer bring the subject up with her. I've told her Smith was a charlatan, and gave her the book, "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Mormonism." I've showed her the Tanner's documentation. She's just in denial. Besides, she's now a home teacher, and is constantly trying to get me into Mormonism. However, I can answer your question about the missionaries - I've had them to my home, even served them dinner. At no time did they offer to explain the more esoteric doctrines of Mormonism - until, that is, I confronted them in that regard. For instance, they never tell the inquiring individual that they believe that they can be exalted to godhood; that God was once a man as we are now and became god; that a woman must be resurrected by her spouse on resurrection morning; that Elohim had a sexual relationship with his spirit-child, Mary, to produce the body of Jesus; etc. These are things that some Mormons don't even know. In fact, when I confronted one missionary with the doctrine of grace, and told him that he needed to place his faith in Christ alone, apart from any works or goodness of his own (including special under garments), he practically ran out of the house. On the other hand, his "companion" said he'd like to stay and chat, but that his friend was "upset." I told missionary No. 2 that if his upset buddy was that offended by the Gospel, that he better go back to SLC and bone up - that there were a lot of Christians in the area who would tell him the same thing that I had. | ||
| crusader New member Username: crusader Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 164.64.226.19 |
Godchild, I no longer bring the subject up with her. I've told her Smith was a charlatan, and gave her the book, "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Mormonism." I've showed her the Tanner's documentation. She's just in denial. Besides, she's now a home teacher, and is constantly trying to get me into Mormonism. However, I can answer your question about the missionaries - I've had them to my home, even served them dinner. At no time did they offer to explain the more esoteric doctrines of Mormonism - until, that is, I confronted them in that regard. For instance, they never tell the inquiring individual that they believe that they can be exalted to godhood; that God was once a man as we are now and became god; that a woman must be resurrected by her spouse on resurrection morning; that Elohim had a sexual relationship with his spirit-child, Mary, to produce the body of Jesus; etc. These are things that some Mormons don't even know. In fact, when I confronted one missionary with the doctrine of grace, and told him that he needed to place his faith in Christ alone, apart from any works or goodness of his own (including special under garments), he practically ran out of the house. On the other hand, his "companion" said he'd like to stay and chat, but that his friend was "upset." I told missionary No. 2 that if his upset buddy was that offended by the Gospel, that he better go back to SLC and bone up - that there were a lot of Christians in the area who would tell him the same thing that I had. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3200 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.40.99 |
Praise the Lord, you were able to place a seed of doubt in at least one of them. | ||
| strongapostolic Junior Member Username: strongapostolic Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
Ok real easy way to go, tell me the history of "dark skinned people" in the Mormon Church and How they fit in your doctrine? and from there a whole understanding of Racism stems, do you disagree with that? If you truly beleive in God, you know that he is not a "Respector" of persons. So, please I want to hear what you really have to say? and ps, I don't want to hear the "Updated" version of your religion, if you know the history, then come witht he absolute truth that Mr. Smith Preached, if not, I promise you I will explain the truth, but maybe you can shed some light for me. | ||
| strongapostolic Junior Member Username: strongapostolic Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
There must be one Mormnon out there that help clear this issue up? it is just sittign there waiting to be explained to me. Maybe I am just getting the wrong information from my LDS friends who have left the Church or the two different Docutrines that were Produced by Mr. Smith once they were hid from him or why Polygamy was also in his doctrine? But we will stick with the race issue first *smile* | ||
| strongapostolic Junior Member Username: strongapostolic Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
There must be one Mormnon out there that help clear this issue up? it is just sittign there waiting to be explained to me. Maybe I am just getting the wrong information from my LDS friends who have left the Church or the two different Docutrines that were Produced by Mr. Smith once they were hid from him or why Polygamy was also in his doctrine? But we will stick with the race issue first *smile* | ||
| norstar New member Username: norstar Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 82.133.23.162 |
strongapostolic: You say: "Maybe I am just getting the wrong information from my LDS friends who have left the Church" It would be helpful to know what this is, as I may then be able to deal wih specific issues, if you have a basic understanding of the doctrine. | ||
| strongapostolic Junior Member Username: strongapostolic Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
I have basic understanding, but no tsure what your question is? it would be helpful to know what this? what do you mean by that? I asked a simple question, please read below and answer accordingly. " tell me the history of "dark skinned people" in the Mormon Church and How they fit in your doctrine?" | ||
| x11 Member Username: x11 Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 208.186.103.29 |
I just have to say that the LDS church by every defination is a cult. The church leaders would have all its current members and potential members believe they follow Christ and are Christians, however they reduce Christ to someone who needed joe smith to "restore" what Christ had already established therefore their whole structure places joe smith in front of Christ. This makes all LDS believers smithtians not Christians The LDS organization is pure evil sorry all you tbm's the truth cannot be hidden frfom those who are willing to see. | ||
| x11 Member Username: x11 Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 208.186.103.29 |
I just have to say that the LDS church by every defination is a cult. The church leaders would have all its current members and potential members believe they follow Christ and are Christians, however they reduce Christ to someone who needed joe smith to "restore" what Christ had already established therefore their whole structure places joe smith in front of Christ. This makes all LDS believers smithtians not Christians The LDS organization is pure evil sorry all you tbm's the truth cannot be hidden frfom those who are willing to see. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3232 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
The mormon church president (prophet) is in as much denial as any member. That, or he is very well learned in how to lie. Recently, Hinckley was asked how the mormon church supports itself. His reply was the tithing of it's faithful members... I'm no math major, but let's have a look at this statement. It's a common fact that the mormon church is opening new temples almost daily around the world. These are not simple buildings, but huge ornate structures for the purposes of what the church calls 'sacred ordinances' which include: eternal marriage sealings (non-Biblical), baptism for and marriage by proxy to the dead (definitely necromancy spoken against in the Bible), which I guess are their main purposes, according to their statements. While reports say this is the fastest growing church, is this talking about members, or fancy buildings. They have stayed at approx. 12-13 million members (in over 100 years). At least half of these members have to be children (mormons are against birth control). So they are trying to convince the world that maybe six million people support (by tithing) not only the building of local wards and stakes, but huge temples on the 10% tithe. Will the mormon church ever simply tell the truth about anything involving their organization? Lying seems to work for them, at least they are convincing their members that they are not a mega-owner of numerous corporations, which Jesus Christ would call Pharisees. All this leaves people trying to witness to them walking away and shaking their heads over the naivete' of these poor people. | ||
| norstar New member Username: norstar Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 82.133.23.162 |
Strongapostolic: My question is simple, what do YOU understand the history to be. You can easily enough read through accounts on both pro and anti LDS sites if you desire a full history, but I feel that there may be SPECIFIC points that you are aware of, that you are unsure of. Actually, my understanding is that it was peoples of African decent, NOT just "dark skinned" - the former also included "light skinned" peoples. X11: "their whole structure places joe smith in front of Christ" - only if YOU consider that YOU put all prophets of God it that position. You do not? - nor do we. "pure evil" - it is obvious that your sheltered life (left college yet?) has yet to give you any experience of this, so your ignorance of it is forgiven. | ||
| norstar New member Username: norstar Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 82.133.23.162 |
GC: Is there any chance that one day you may feel the urge to prove one of your accusations? So, enlighten us all. WHERE DOES the Church get all it's money if NOT from tithing? (never heard of investment?) | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3233 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Last night I watched a talk show about people living in polygamous relationships mainly in Colorado, Arizsona, Idaho and Utah. One famous man Joseph had over 20 wives ranging in ages from 9 years old to 50+ years old. Joseph has died but one wife who was 'married to him for over 20 years stated that "Yes, the 9 year old was married to him but he only consumated the marriage when she turned 18 years old. Another polygamous man has over 20 wives, ages from 2 years old to 20+ years old. This man is in his sixties and now serving a life sentence for child abuse. Some of his child brides started a business, (sewing and modeling undergarments) which whose main buyers are women who are called 'exotic dancers'. You might ask what my point is. Every single one of these men follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and are offshoots of the doctrines he started! These are called fundamental mormons. The FBI as we speak has issued a warrant for Jeff Warren, a polygamous fm leader, for sexual child abuse. All of these men are/will be finally arrested, not for their acts against children, and the degrading, slavery of girls; but tax evasion and welfare fraud. It has taken great courage for the attorney general of Utah, the main headquarters of mormonism, to finally after generations, to start doing something to stop something so dispicable which was started by the mormon 'prophet' joe smith. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3234 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
How wealthy is the LDS Church? Unlike most churches, the LDS Church does not give out a financial statement, even to its own members. However, reporters have collected as much information as possible on the church's assets. Time Magazine gave the following details on Mormon finances: "The church's material triumphs rival even its evangelical advances. With unusual cooperation from the Latter-day Saints hierarchy (which provided some financial figures and a rare look at church businesses), TIME has been able to quantify the church's extra-ordinary financial vibrancy. Its current assets total a minimum of $30 billion. If it were a corporation, its estimated $5.9 billion in annual gross income would place it midway through the FORTUNE 500, a little below Union Carbide and the Paine Webber Group but bigger than Nike and the Gap." (Time, August 4, 1997, p.52) | ||
| norstar New member Username: norstar Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 82.133.23.162 |
GC: So your point is, you've run out of unsubstantitable accusations, so to TRY and get something with proof you use matters that DO NOT relate to the Church. You know full well this has nothing to do with COJCOLDS and such people are NOT memebrs of the Church. Try again (but harder). You saying this is like saying that the whole of the U.S.A. should be judged by the activities of the KKK, cos. it's part of YOUR history, and was started by Americans. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3235 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
This passage is reminiscent of Nephi's vision of the future of the Lamanites: "And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."42 Clearly, the Book of Mormon describes various people--including the Nephites themselves--as being dark, filthy, and loathsome in a spiritual sense. The Nephites who dissented to the Lamanites would not have considered them in such negative terms, and the Lord himself does not use such verbiage to describe the Lamanites. Moreover, Nephites such as the sons of Mosiah and their generation, who welcomed converted Lamanites into their society, have only good things to say about these converts. We conclude, then, that while some Nephites seem to have been racist in the sense that they were repulsed by the skin color of the Lamanites, this was not a general trait. Rather than promoting concepts of racial inferiority, Book of Mormon events and teachings clearly suggest that people of different ethnic and racial backgrounds and traditions can truly overcome old hatreds and misconceptions and attain peace, happiness and unity through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. -from a mormon apologist FARMS (While stating they are not affiliated with the lds church, they use documents published by said organization). | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3236 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Question: How does the Church finance its operations? Answer: Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said: "Our major source of revenue is the ancient law of the tithe. Our people are expected to pay 10 percent of their income to move forward the work of the Church. The remarkable and wonderful thing is that they do it. Tithing is not so much a matter of dollars as it is a matter of faith. It becomes a privilege and an opportunity, not a burden. Our people believe in the word of God as set forth in the book of Malachi, that the Lord will open the windows of heaven and pour down blessings that there will not be room enough to receive them (Malachi 3:10). Moving and touching is the testimony of Latter-day Saints throughout | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3237 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Do the LDS leaders receive a salary? The LDS Church boasts of not having a paid clergy. Many of them believe that when a man receives a salary from a particular group it compromises his integrity. LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer explained, "In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is no paid ministry, no professional clergy, as is common in other churches." Even though their leaders on the local level receive no pay for their services, this is not true of their top leadership. Many of the Mormons are not aware that their Prophet, Apostles and Seventies receive a salary. In the Encyclopedia of Mormonism we read: "Because the Church has no professional clergy, it is administered at every level through LAY PARTICIPATION AND LEADERSHIP, and officials other than the General Authorities contribute their time and talents without remuneration. … Because the General Authorities are obliged to leave their regular employment for full-time Church service, they receive a modest living allowance provided from income on Church investments." (p.510) Since the amount paid to the leaders is never divulged one is left to wonder what constitutes a "modest living allowance." | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3238 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
In the 1980's, my mormon husband and his mormon father joined with other male members to build a house (in their spare time) for the purpose of raising money for the mormon church. This is just one example of how the mormon church uses it's members to build up their coffers; all in the name of 'building up the church'. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3239 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
You may well ask why would members be willing to sacrifice all their time and money to this megachurch. From the mormon teachers manual 'Gospel Principles' SACRIFICE pg. 173 WE MUST BE WILLING TO SACRIFICE EVERYTHING WE HAVE FOR THE LORD. The Apostle Paul wrote that we should become living sacrifices, holy and acceptable unto God (see Romans 12:1) If we are to be a living sacrifice, we must, if asked, be willing to give everything we have for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (Note: This is teaching sacrifice to the mormon organizstion, not to Jesus Christ.) | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3240 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Mormon women are not excluded in this money-making enterprise. They donate hours of their time, through the mormon women's organization, the Relief Society. These women hold hold huge, well known bazaars to sell the things they have made by their own hands and with their own money, to donate to the mormon organization. This, in the name of 'sacrifice' to the lds organization. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3241 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
While I was a member of the mormon church, I often donated my time and money as a 'faithful member' of the Relief Society. Apostle Brigham Young once said, "There are two things that I hate. Feminists and .............." In order to 'shut these women members up', the Relief Society was devised, in order to keep these women out of the 'business' of the male 'priesthood' holders, of which of course no woman in the mormon church can hold. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3242 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
What is the Mormon Temple Endowment ceremony? Before a person serves a full-time mission for the LDS Church or before his/her temple marriage he/she will be required to participate in the Endowment Ceremony (where they will be "endowed" with special knowledge). When an adult Mormon attends the temple he/she only goes through the ceremony once for him/herself. After that, the person will attend the temple on behalf of a dead person of the same sex. The live Mormon stands in the place of a particular dead person and goes through the entire endowment ceremony in that person's name. The person enters the temple, goes to a locker room, dresses in the temple undergarment covered with a white poncho. He/she will then receive the washing and anointing ritual, performed by members of the same sex. At this point they will be given their new name for eternity (i.e. Paul, Timothy, etc. for men, Rachael, Deborah, etc. for women). The person then dons a white temple dress or shirt and pants (over the special underwear). Each will carry a small bag containing a long piece of white material, gathered in the middle, that will be draped over one shoulder, a white sash, green apron and a hat or veil. These will be put on later in the ceremony. The person then joins a group of several dozen people in the auditorium, men on one side and women on the other. They then watch a film depicting the creation of our world, the fall and expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. Then Peter, James and John appear to instruct them in certain handshakes and pass words necessary to gain admittance to the Celestial Kingdom. At the end of the ceremony they are tested on their knowledge by one playing the part of God. After this ceremony the couple will be given a temple marriage ceremony in an adjoining room. These rituals are considered necessary for one to gain the highest level of heaven, exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3243 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
What types of ceremonies are performed in a Mormon temple? One of the most important tenets of the LDS Church is the necessity of temple ordinances. A Mormon couple who has been married in the temple will be able to continue in the marriage relationship in heaven. The LDS Church teaches that proper priesthood authority is necessary to administer these essential rites. Joseph Smith supposedly restored the original temple ceremony of the Old Testament. Many people are familiar with the LDS concept of baptism for the dead. But few realize that this is a minor part of the temple experience. Young people usually perform proxy baptisms. Adult Mormons, however, attend the temple to participate in the Endowment Ceremony and to perform marriages for both the living and the dead. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3244 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Does the Book of Mormon teach the doctrines of Mormonism? No. Many people assume that if they read the Book of Mormon they will get a good idea of LDS beliefs. However, the Book of Mormon teaches one God, not plural gods as in Mormonism. It mentions heaven and hell, not three degrees of glory, no temple marriage or secret temple ceremonies. It does not teach baptism for the dead, pre-existence of man, eternal progression or polygamy (see comparison chart). One of the most objectionable doctrines in the Book of Mormon is its view of skin color. White skin is seen as desirable, dark skin is seen as a mark of God's displeasure (see chart on racial statements). Smith wrote the Book of Mormon in the late 1820's. Over the next fifteen years his doctrines underwent radical changes which are seen in his revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3245 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
We have been asked to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. Is this a good thing to do? Since the Book of Mormon claims to be an historical document it should be examined on that basis to determine its authenticity. Prayer can be used as a part of the process but it is not a sufficient guide. Our own desires and emotions could mislead us (James 4:3). If prayer alone were sufficient to determine truth there would not be thousands of different religions. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3246 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Does the LDS Church still believe in polygamy? Yes, the doctrine of polygamy is still in their scriptures, Doctrine and Covenants, section 132. Mormons are instructed not to practice polygamy during this life but the practice will be permitted in heaven. Today if a Mormon man outlives his first wife (after having a temple marriage) he can marry again in the temple. This would guarantee him two wives in heaven. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3247 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Why don't Mormon churches have crosses on them? Latter-day Saints object to the use of a cross on their buildings and the wearing of the cross. They view the symbolism of the cross as having a pagan origin and that it symbolizes Christ's torture and death, not his resurrection. LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated: "The sectarian world falsely suppose that the climax of his (Christ's) torture and suffering was on the cross …-- a view which they keep ever before them by the constant use of the cross as a religious symbol. The fact is that intense and severe as the suffering was on the cross, yet the great pains were endured in the Garden of Gethsemane. (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.555) | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3248 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Why do Mormons only use the King James Version of the Bible? The eighth LDS Article of Faith states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." The Mormons believe the Bible has gone through repeated editing that has changed the meaning of the text. Thus they are skeptical of any translation of the Bible. However, they view the King James Version as the least corrupt of the versions available today. They print their own Bible (King James Version) with additional LDS footnotes, dictionary and topical guide. These cross reference to their other books of scripture and provide LDS explanations. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3249 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Where are the Egyptian papyri that Joseph Smith used when he translated the Book of Abraham? Joseph Smith bought a collection of Egyptian mummies and papyrus scrolls in 1835. One of these scrolls became the basis for Smith's Book of Abraham. After his death his wife retained ownership of the artifacts. Since she did not come to Utah with the LDS pioneers the papyri stayed in the Midwest. They eventually were acquired by a museum. The LDS Church acquired the Joseph Smith collection of papyri from the Metropolitan Museum in New York City in 1967. They are now housed at the LDS archives in Salt Lake City, Utah. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3250 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
In refernce to the above post about Emma Smith, first wife of joe smith. She and her's and joe's son had been promised by joe before his death that his eldest son would receive the 'mantle' of apostleship upon his father's (joe's) death. When Brigham Young was voted in as the new prophet after joe's death, Emma and her sons left the lds and began the 'Reorganized Church of lds', from whom come the polygamous leaders of today who are so much in the news for their abuses. The lds church stopped polygamy because they wanted to become a state of the union. Emma and her sons followed the original teachings of joe smith. While there are many offshoots of the reorganized church, they all began with joe smith. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3251 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
Why are Mormon missionaries coming to my door? The LDS Church claims to be the "only true church" and the only church with the authority to act in God's name. They do not accept any other church's baptisms. According to their teachings, their baptism is the only one recognized by the Lord. This belief, coupled with their belief in the need for a Mormon temple marriage to gain eternal life, compels them to take their message to the world. Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints just another Protestant religion? No, the Mormon Church does not claim to be Protestant. It claims to be a divine restoration of Christ's true church. It therefore rejects the validity of any other church. Its basic beliefs place it outside the standard doctrines of Christianity. Mormonism teaches that the God to whom they pray is but one of a whole series of gods who at one time were mortal then progressed to godhood. The LDS Church teaches that their Heavenly Father was once born as a spirit child of a god and wife who ruled a different world. After maturing as a spirit being he was sent to another world where he was born as a human. There he grew to maturity, married, died, was resurrected, went to heaven, progressed and eventually became the God of our world. He and his resurrected wife continue to have spirit children born to them in their heavenly realm. The Mormon man, accompanied by his wife, who is faithful to his religion, pays his tithe, attends the LDS temple rituals, etc. is hoping to eventually progress to become a god of another world, just like his Heavenly Father did. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3252 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.112 |
from the ldsnewsroom.org Membership Distribution (31 December 2004) (It is important to note the lds does not record the number of members who have left the church or who simply have not had their names removed from their membership rolls. gc) Canada - 169,633 United States - 5,599,177 Mexico - 1,013,071 Caribbean - 138,511 Central America - 527,511 South America - 2,904,085 Europe - 440,945 Asia - 865,987 Africa - 220,798 South Pacific - 396,104 ------------------------ While I have posted much of this information before on factnet, I find it necessary to compile it here for simpler reference by those investigating the mormon church. I would like to thank Utah Lighthouse Ministries; who have for several years been researching the mormon church. Below, see the references they used to compile the above information: Most of the sources we reference can be seen in various libraries in Utah: University of Utah, Marriott Library, Special Collections (Salt Lake City, UT) Utah State Historical Society Library (Salt Lake City, UT) Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, Historical Dept. (Salt Lake City, UT) Brigham Young University Library, Special Collections (Provo, UT) Utah State University Library, Special Collections (Logan, UT) A few of the other libraries with significant LDS material are: Henry E. Huntington Library, San Marino, Calif; Stanford University Library, Stanford, Calif.; Yale University, New Haven, Conn.; University of Calif. Bancroft Library, Berkelely, Calif.; U.S. Library of Congress, Washington, D.C.; Illinois State Historical Library, Springfield, Ill.; Graceland College, Lamoni, Iowa; Chicago Historical Society, Chicago, Ill.; Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass.; Missouri State Historical Society, Columbia, Mo.; Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, Independence, Mo.; Princeton University, Princeton, NJ | ||
| strongapostolic Junior Member Username: strongapostolic Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
Norstar and godchild. First, My Point is proven, screw any racist doctrine that states that people of African descent is cursed, because any "rational" human being knows that the difference between skin color is genetic and has nothing to do with anything more than a gene. It would be like saying God favors people with blues eyes over Brown, you are just misled. I don't know about your God, but I believe that God does not care about the skin color of a man; He is more Diverse than that. Look at creation itself, there are many different color animals and plants. To say that he favors one over the other is just brainwashing. Also, Jesus preached to the gentiles and the Jews, showing that time and time again that God is not a respecter of persons. Also Norstar, if you ever read the Christian Bible, it states that yes, the Churches are supposed to Invest their money. I am not saying that they do, that is a Huge Problem that goes beyond your understanding. But Jesus of a number of Occasion states that we are to "tithe" which means a tenth of our First fruits of increase! You know that your pay check is not an increase? Really meditate of that, let it sink in and read the story in Matthews 25 about the lazy servant and really let that sink in and get understanding. Bottom line, I feel Mormons have good moral structure, but to call it a strong Faith base would be like stating evolution is a Religion. Everything adds up except for when you look at the root of the issue; evolution is the big bang, how did it happen? And Mormonism, Joseph Smith Not able to produce these Holy Scrolls that he found? Really think about this, these are just a few things about your Religion that doesn’t add up. All I am saying is that you need to really look at the issues and try not to skate around them. (Message edited by strongapostolic on March 15, 2006) | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3257 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
News from lds 'temples' website: Events and Notices -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sacramento California Temple Open House and Dedication Dates Helsinki Finland Temple Open House and Dedication Dates Update in Los Angeles California Temple Closure Papeete Tahiti Temple Renovation New Temple Announced ----------------------------------- They just keep putting them up. Amazing what can be done with tithing, isn't it? | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3258 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
It is not uncommon for the Mormons to place a sign next to the baptismal font citing 1 Corinthians 15:29. While scholars have debated as to what the apostle Paul was referring to in this passage, one thing is certain: Paul actually separated himself from such a practice when he said, "Else what shall THEY do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are THEY then baptized for the dead?" If baptism for the dead was in fact the "most glorious of all subjects belonging to the everlasting gospel" (D&C 128:17), it seems odd that Paul would not include himself as a participant. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that baptisms for either the living or the dead ever took place in the tabernacle or the Jerusalem temple. You might also find it interesting that Mormons have been vicariously baptized for such people as John Wesley, Martin Luther, Abraham Lincoln, William Shakespeare, Albert Einstein, Christopher Columbus, and yes, even Adolph Hitler! To strongapostolic and all others who read my posts. I am not pro mormon. I left the mormon church in 1986. | ||
| crusader New member Username: crusader Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 164.64.226.19 |
According to the LDS, the Mormon Church's president is supposed to be able to translate ancient records (D&C 107:92). If this is true, why hasn't President Hinckley translated the Egyptian papyrus owned by the Church which Joseph Smith identified as the "Book of Joseph." The Church has the papyrus in its possession? | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3259 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
Think about this. The mormon church claims it has approx. 13 mil. members. Some of those are inactive, say a low 20%. At least half have to be children, and probably more because mormons believe in lots of children. Mormons are very big on marriage, so half may be woman, of which say 1/3 are one parent families. That leaves about 3,300,000 working people have paid enough tithing in the last 150 years to pay for: Wards Unknown number but count the cities just in the U.S. to get an idea. Stakes Unknown number but count the counties just in the U.S. to get an idea. Temples: According to the number of temples (lds temple website) there are 123 temples in the world, and nine more were under construction in 2004. 6 of those temples are in Canada, 12 in Mexico, and 38 temples in the United States. (The Kirkland temple is no longer owned by the church). There is ONE temple in S.Africa and none in North Africa. Why? That's a whole lot of tithing for the incomes of 3.3 million workers. And that's an incredible number of temples for the number of members. (All of these temples are run by volunteers.) The wards and stakes (local churches) are run by volunteers. I'd say the lds church has one of the largest cash cows in the world. And tax free to boot. | ||
| crusader New member Username: crusader Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 164.64.226.19 |
Great points, godchild. I'd venture to say that their "economy" is bigger than some 3rd world countries - what a mockery, when you remember that the Son of God had no place to lay His head. Crusader | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3260 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
Thank you crusader. jd will not be able to figure this out, nor will other mormons even try to. Instead, it will just be something that they don't see as another oxymoron of the mormon church and the things that the mormon church wants to make public. They are still able to convince most of their members they are telling the 'whole truth'. I'll explain why I mention the 'phantom' jd, a consumate liar, in my next post. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3261 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
jd, alias norstar, started posting here a couple of years ago. He starts out by giving mormon answers to questions by non mormons, and was polite. Eventually, as his answers were shredded by the Holy Bible, he began to show anger in his posts. It got so bad that eventually his aim was not even to discuss mormon beliefs but to attack anyone opposed to mormon doctrines, their organization and past/present leadership. I mentioned to Nulla that cultbusters.com.au was back in a new format on 2-26-06. Shortly thereafter a mormon came there and started attacking everything posted there, on the mormon threads. It only took me a couple of days to recognise jd/norstar. As soon as I confronted him there he posted here to try and make me a laughingstock. Well, it backfired. He is no longer posting on cultbusters, probably because he was there to cause trouble and not because he had any interest in sharing the beliefs of the mormon church. to be cont. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3262 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
When exposed here too, he comes up with the story that he is posting here 'for' jd, and that's why they have the same ip. Looking over the posts by jd/norstar, you will notice they both always post early in the morning, usually before work hours. Not only that, but jd/norstar said his home computer died at the end of Jan. and gave the ip number for jds work computer. So either jd/norstar are the same person, and they aren't friends that 'work' together, or we are all little 'gods' and you guys are going to have hundreds of wives and billions of children in your heavenly home. norstar/jd said we know he had surgery. Yes, notice on December 5, jd post #580, on his so-called work ip computer, stated that "I'm going into the hospital tomorrow." Not only that but in norstar/jd angry post trying to explain (just about as successfully as he did on cultbusters.com.au) his lies, as norstar he said we were suggesting that no one could be a friend with or mormon with the same name (he said it as a mockery). jd/Robert. Pretty soon norstar/jd comes back and says "the name is John." So does norstar have the same name Robert and the same ip as jd, or does norstar have the name of john but the same ip no. as jd, and is just doing a buddy a favor by continuing his wonderful posts here? | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3263 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.173 |
You see, norstar/jd tried to use the excuse of the broken home computer and his surgery as the excuse to start using norstar/jds ip #. The problem with that is jd had his surgery Dec. 6, was back here posting as jd with norstars ip on March 6 at 11:33 a.m. from the computer ip of his new name norstar. He started using the name norstar on 3-14 at 9:37 a.m., eight days after jd had already used it. He wouldn't have tried if he hadn't tried playing the game he did on cultbusters.com.au. Will your son Joe be proud of his father, jd? Are you proud of yourself, Robert? By the way, when someone rudely tells me to put up or shut up, you can be sure I can put up, although I am sick of putting up with you and your lies. I don't think we'll hear from you til early in the morning. I don't believe you are even back at work, but that the ip work computer number norstar/jd tried to give is your ip number on your new computer at home. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3275 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.46.149 |
For a comparison between the mormon temple rituals and freemasonry, of which many mormons and joe smith, brigham young were members of please put this on your calendar as a MUST SEE: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9-10pm -- Decoding the Past - Secret Brotherhood of Freemasons. Join us as we divulge the true nature of the secret and mystical organization known as freemasons. We reveal the initiation ceremony, when candidates swear on pain of death to uphold the order's secrets. In ancient Egypt, we uncover the murderous legend that inspired their rituals, and we also study the society's influence on our democracy. http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/episode_detail.jsp?EAirId=16684771&page=listings Thank you! (In the last few years the mormon temple has undergone revisions because (1) people were offended at the thought of having to cut open their own bowels and slit their own throat if they told 'secrets' given them during the ritual (2) women got tired of men fondling them during the rituals. gc | ||
| strongapostolic Member Username: strongapostolic Post Number: 53 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
Godchild, I truly am Sorry, I got you mixed in with NorStar and I am Happy to see you post on this site. Standing up for what is right *smile* | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3287 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.198 |
strong, No apologies necessary. I just wanted to make sure 'everyone' understands I am against mormonism and especially its leadership. Please place the following U.S. Government offices homepage into your browsers so that you can forward to all people in your address books. In this way, people can speak out against any acts by any group/organization and its practices that effect you and me adversely: http://www.firstgov.gov/ | ||
| duggandavid New member Username: duggandavid Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 130.13.82.9 |
Be careful of strong hatred. Hate leads to evil and evil leads to antichrist. It's okay to say you believe differently than someone else, but to practice such strong adversity and preach falsely against any religion puts your eternal soul in the hands of the devil. This site is for debate, and not to recruit hateful acts towards anyone or their personal belief. | ||
| strongapostle New member Username: strongapostle Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.93.197.156 |
Sorry If I came off as Hatred toward your Religion, Just getting clear of on the issues. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2742 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.45.208 |
I do not hate anyone. The Bible says to hate (love less) the sin, not the sinner. I would not want anyone to think I do. The apostles were told by Jesus Christ to out to all the world with the message of the gospel. The Apostles in turn gave many warnings against false doctrines and false teachers that lead (even the 'elect' [those who are strong in the faith])to eternal damnation. | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 501 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Strongapostle Where does it say that Jesus told us to tithe 10 percent? Tithing was part of the Law to support the levitical priesthood, Christ died to fullfill the Law (ALL LAW). Matthew says we should give From the Heart , a penny , a dollar , a hundred dollars , time & service . As long as it is from the cheerful giver. You sound like you are involved in a word faith ministry, Christ brought two new commandments,after he fullfilled the Old Law, Love thy God with all thy Heart & and love Thy Neighbor. Out of this Love will come Good works, for those who are in Christ, this includes service & money, but there is no Law of ten percent anymore. steel jude 3 | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 502 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Strongapostle Where does it say that Jesus told us to tithe 10 percent? Tithing was part of the Law to support the levitical priesthood, Christ died to fullfill the Law (ALL LAW). Matthew says we should give From the Heart , a penny , a dollar , a hundred dollars , time & service . As long as it is from the cheerful giver. You sound like you are involved in a word faith ministry, Christ brought two new commandments,after he fullfilled the Old Law, Love thy God with all thy Heart & and love Thy Neighbor. Out of this Love will come Good works, for those who are in Christ, this includes service & money, but there is no Law of ten percent anymore. steel jude 3 | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 503 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Strongapostle Where does it say that Jesus told us to tithe 10 percent? Tithing was part of the Law to support the levitical priesthood, Christ died to fullfill the Law (ALL LAW). Matthew says we should give From the Heart , a penny , a dollar , a hundred dollars , time & service . As long as it is from the cheerful giver. You sound like you are involved in a word faith ministry, Christ brought two new commandments,after he fullfilled the Old Law, Love thy God with all thy Heart & and love Thy Neighbor. Out of this Love will come Good works, for those who are in Christ, this includes service & money, but there is no Law of ten percent anymore. steel jude 3 | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 504 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Strongapostle Where does it say that Jesus told us to tithe 10 percent? Tithing was part of the Law to support the levitical priesthood, Christ died to fullfill the Law (ALL LAW). Matthew says we should give From the Heart , a penny , a dollar , a hundred dollars , time & service . As long as it is from the cheerful giver. You sound like you are involved in a word faith ministry, Christ brought two new commandments,after he fullfilled the Old Law, Love thy God with all thy Heart & and love Thy Neighbor. Out of this Love will come Good works, for those who are in Christ, this includes service & money, but there is no Law of ten percent anymore. steel jude 3 | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2814 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.45.33 |
In fact, Jesus reprimanded the disciples for saying Mary shouldn't have wasted the valuable oil on Jesus' feet. She gave the very best she had. Jesus said if we cannot give up all, family, friends, earthly possessions, for Him, (not the church, but HIM) we are not of Him. When the disciples followed HIM, it was immediate. They believed him and dropped everything they were doing, and followed him. One man He called answered that he had to go home and take care of business first, and Jesus let HIM go. It is a free choice given by God's free will gift to us. Everything that is, He created. Everything IS HIS. By His love we have whatever we have, not because we work hard, or inherit from wealthy families, or by our families good name, but because of His graciousness to us."Sell all that you have, give to the poor, and follow Me." Another poor woman gave everything and the rich men mocked her because what they gave was worth more (worldly) and Jesus rebuked them. We are to worship in Spirit, (totally for Him) and truth (given to us by the Holy Word of God, (not other books added or changed by men who may have had their own agenda, and not His glory). | ||
| strongapostle New member Username: strongapostle Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.93.198.222 |
steelsword comments; "Strongapostle Where does it say that Jesus told us to tithe 10 percent? Tithing was part of the Law to support the levitical priesthood, Christ died to fullfill the Law (ALL LAW). Matthew says we should give From the Heart , a penny , a dollar , a hundred dollars , time & service . As long as it is from the cheerful giver. You sound like you are involved in a word faith ministry, Christ brought two new commandments,after he fullfilled the Old Law, Love thy God with all thy Heart & and love Thy Neighbor. Out of this Love will come Good works, for those who are in Christ, this includes service & money, but there is no Law of ten percent anymore. steel jude 3" Brother, look, if you are saying tithing is dead, I seriously don't even want to engage in a conversation with you. I stand in Truth and will never attempt to entertain your illogic. Read Corinthians and see what Paul has to say about, p.s. just so you know, this was after Jesus’ death. Also, in all your getting, get understanding. You can try to reason the Word all you want, But I Pray that you seek to speak to the Lord directly and stop falling after Man and their Doctrine. The Truth isn't found anywhere else but in Jesus, without a TRUE relationship with him in your life, you will suffer. I never have known to call anyone at least a friend by reading a book about them and their life. Pray, Meditate and receive revelation about this. | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 508 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Strong , i , ask you a simple Question , Where did Jesus say we must tith 10 per cent? Giving and tithing are two diffrent things. Giving is (New Testament) by the Heart. Tihing is (Old Testament) by the Law. I think James said if we live one part of the Law we are bound by all the Law. I don't Give because of a Law, but because , my heart tells me to give, it may be service,money , or time. You see the Mormon religion is based on tithing. You are required to pay 10 per cent. No 10 per cent , NO TEMPLE RECOMEND!! No Temple Recomend , No Celestial Kingdom. Tithing is dead, Fullfilled by Christ on the Cross. He paid up all the tithing for us, & rent the veil in Two. The Jewish Priest sewed it back together. (no more veil between God & man , now Christ the mediator for all , No more tithing for the priesthood, (they could not have this so they sewed it back together. Giving From the Heart is not a part of the Law,it is a good work by the power of the Holy Spirit in us and thus the result of salvation. So whatever, I just ask a simple Question, for which you gave no answer . Did Christ ever Tithe to the temple during his ministry? Steel Jude 3 | ||
| strongapostle Junior Member Username: strongapostle Post Number: 30 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.93.198.222 |
Jude 3, I see what is going on. Ok, tell me this, how do you support the body of Christ? I am wondering what your thoughts are on giving up offering and tithes? Strong | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2882 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.217 |
I am afraid people get confused about laws, commandments and works. Jesus never said "stop paying tithe." There is no sin in paying a tithe if that is what you want to do. What Jesus was saying is you will not receive greater blessings by paying a certain percentage of your earnings. That was NEVER what God wanted or asked of us. Man wasn't made for the law, but the law for man. People I'm sure did just what they do today. Instead of freely giving from their heart, they spent all their time trying to decide how much to give. This is why the law was given. To 'shut them up' so to speak. People seem to need to be 'led' in everything. If someone tells men to give 10%, it soothes his conscience. What if God had said, give 100%? For pity's sake, they argue and cry about a measley 10% even with a promise of blessings. What is our desire? Mine is to be more like Him, who gave "ALL" for me and you. The whole deal is, if you can't obey in one small thing, what makes anyone think God will entrust you with the big things. If you were the boss, would you entrust a stingy, greedy, selfish employee with your assets? If you have to figure out how much you "should" give, then don't give at all, because He says if you give from a heart that really doesn't want to, it's worth less than giving at all. You're not going to lose your salvation by tithing or not to a church/organization/group. The truth is, you won't gain it that way either. Your salvation is not contingent on this. If you are sealed to Him, who can break that seal. Not someone standing above you on a lecturn saying give more to him and his group. Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. Romans. He told them the sheep will be welcomed into the kingdom. Why? Because sheep obey, they follow. He also said the goats would not, but would join the devil and his angels in eternal damnation. Why? Because goats don't follow, they butt; but, I did pay 10%; but, I did go to church every Sunday; but, I this; but, I that.... The Old Testament laws required about 23%. New Testament believers were encouraged to give liberally, but never a specified amount. Romans 12:8. What Jesus said was feed a stranger, give him a place to sleep, help him when you see he has a need. This is what He wants from us. To give what He gave. To be more like Him. | ||
| strongapostle Junior Member Username: strongapostle Post Number: 31 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.93.198.222 |
Godchild, This is why you are so Blessed. So, what is the revelation from this? I tell you this, no one who has tithed themselves out of Poverty as spoken so widely on Television. The Problem isn't in the fact of giving, but the way that you give. You must give from the Spirit and Not from the Natural. I Loved to see how God is ushering the New revival and when it is here, I will there. | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 509 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Gc, i see you speak very well these days. I agree with what you say. Strong, I.m not trying to be confrontational with you, because we may agree more than you think. You ask how do I support the Body of Christ? The body of Christ i am within and it is within me. It is not the building I go to on Sunday. I think Gc knows where I'm coming from. You see I support the Body of Christ everyday, buy spreading the Gospel. I Hold a bible study weekly , I teach sunday school, I play in the praise & worship band as well. We just added a 500,000 addition to our exsisting House of Worship. This is How i see things: When i said yes , I want to be a member of this church(Building),I'm not saying being a member of Christ Body, because I was already in Christ before I went to this Church(building), But by saying i wanted to be a member of this Church, i understood that responsibilities came with it, such as light, phone, salaries, building and grounds . Money is needed to pay these things each month. To me this is not tithing , but a responsibility because i said yes to being a member. Giving on the other hand is a part of Christ nature . I give My time as i stated before, also i give to missionary ministries that i feel are doing the true work of Christ, not these TV ministries that say you have to tithe and sow a seed to tap into God's Grace. Last i heard Grace was FREE!!!!To the Beleiver. I Just had to Confess Christ & repent. I don't beleive we should give up offering ourselves ,time or money. We are just not bound by tithing 10 per cent of any thing. Gc knows a story i told months ago of my sister wanting to give her tithing money (she is Lds), to a friend who had lost her Job and apartment, She was told by the Church not to do so, but to pay her tithe and then the church would decide if this person should be helped. You see many ministers these day trying to bind people to tithe. they use Malichi 3 as one twisted example. To many people see thithing only as money?? Sometimes that's the easy thing to do, pull that dollar out, and say oh i did a good deed, but sometimes it's more difficult to give your time to the needs of others, Christ doesn't want our Money , He wants 100 per cent of us in which ever way he chooses. We didn't choose to be Saved, if that were the case , i would have been saved a long time ago. The Holy Spirit chooses us , Just as he did Paul on the road to Damascus. Same with tithing , The Holy Spirit lays on My heart when to Give & serve. Strong , i'm not faulting you for giving , and i hope you give much from the heart, as you will be blessed, but Gc said it great above, Our good works have nothing to do with be saved, only the rewards will will receive due to such works. To us ex-mos when someone brings up tithing & especially 10 per cent, we see Red flags start to fly. To all, give you whole heart and Soul, & do it in more ways than ONE. Gc , Keep holding strong to Jude 3. Keep up the Good works with the SC'ers. Strong, God Bless, I respect your love of God, but , I see so much promised on people based on tithe & guilt. Steel Jude 3 | ||
| strongapostle Junior Member Username: strongapostle Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.93.198.222 |
Jude 3, I actually do believe we also have a lot mroe incommon. Sorry if to come off confrontational also. I have the firm belief that no man has ever tithed themselves out of poverty, which is Preached so much today. God has Called us to tithed from increase and you are correct about putting a number on what we are supposed to be tithing. I honestly in my Heart of Heart that God is sending forth a new Revival that will change the Churches as we know it. The Lord is Calling forth those who will free his people from this Slave like system we have in place. Continue to Pray and Stay strong Brother. Strong | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2895 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.110 |
It's pretty incredible how God is working. I was feeling very sleepy a couple of hours ago so decided to go ahead and go to bed. I put on 3ABN which I find the more I listen, the more I understand. I am not saying I want to join the 7th Day Adventist Church, I don't know that much about how it is run. I also have heard rumors about Ellen White, a prophetess, that she had plagerized other works. All I know is everytime I watch it, something is there for me (or in this case to share with you) in the right now. When I got back up, I came for some reason to this thread first. No special reason but I did notice steel had posted last and was curious, because I know he has a heart for the Lord. Anyway, this program was local, and the guest was a woman talking about just this subject; tithing. But she spoke not only about tithing, but offering too, and more. She kept saying, "you cannot outgive God". Her story was that though her and her husband, who died of cancer in 2002, had grown up in households where one parent was a Christian and the other not, she was more active in her Christian life than her husband. He wanted to have fun, and people loved him. He didn't care anything about tithing, and felt his giving of time was enough. She, on the other hand, felt God telling her to give money. All they could afford at first was $2 a month (not to a church but to a Christian Foundation). Since her husband didn't agree with it, she used her allowance for this. Then she went up to $5. Then she saw a need and asked her husband if they could give $20. He hesitantly agreed. She said it was difficult sometimes and she resented the fact that it was her money going towards these offerings. As she prayed, the Lord impressed on her to give $100. She was afraid to ask her husband, but to her surprise, he did. She said next she was impressed to give a lump sum offering of $1,000. I won't go into the details but her husband not only agreed, he said they should commit to $2,500. They paid about $1,000 and then her husband lost his job. I'll have to cont. this... | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2896 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.110 |
But God kept providing for them. They decided they would both go back to school and become nurses. Their son gave them $100, her Mom gave them $100 so they could keep their commitment. Now, her husband is also saying, "You can't outgive God." A tree fell on their shed and the insurance paid them the difference for doing the labor themselves. It came to the $700 left on their commitment. Next, she felt impressed to give $20,000. They were still working as nurses. But her husband got cancer and could no longer work. His fellow workers chipped in their vacation time so he could add it to his and start getting his pension. He had to wait for six months to get disability but an attorney for the hospital found out he could get paid from the time he became disabled. That along with an insurance policy that paid back took care of the $20,000. Her husband had lung cancer, their car that they were making payments on went on the fritz. But she fell impressed through her bedside prayers to give $100,000. She said she talked to the Lord for a long time, but He told her, yes, give $100,000, and that He would provide for their every need. This was shortly before her husband's death. The car insurance gave them $7,000. for the payoff on the car. When her husband died, she got insurance from 2 policies she was unaware of. She injured herself and couldn't work. But she found out that the 20 acres of land they owned, if she could have it subdivided, would sell for $200,000. As she ended her story, she impressed on all the viewers that if we would only give, God will provide more than we can imagine, in ways we cannot imagine. You could see the love in her eyes for us and for the Lord. The moderator spoke about the Bible where it says in the end times our money won't be worth anything. So why not give now. I believe it. I am just ashamed that I went out today out of a sense of wanting to get out of the house and blew $50 on nothing. I had an opportunity and missed it. I pray that I will remember this woman the next time, if I am blessed to have one. It was a great lesson from God for me, and maybe for you too. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 2897 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.110 |
You know, I'm not some great person. I really have very little to lose, materially speaking. My life has been a series of 'feast and famine', 'feast and famine'. For some reason, the famine times don't bother me much, because I've made it okay so far. My husband died in 1986, and with what he left me, I was able to move, build another house and live in it for 14 years, sell it and now have enough income to provide for my needs. Not from any great thing I did. I didn't deserve it. God wants us right where we are for His purposes, and for His glory. When I was a mormon and to this day, my Mother has told me I could be rich if I would just sell my art works, or write novels..get rich, get rich, get rich, don't waste your talents...if you do God will take them from you. THIS IS SO NOT TRUE. I have never wanted to be rich. I've seen what great wealth can do. If you have it and don't share it, because you think someone hasn't worked as hard as you may have, you are really missing out. What's that saying, "To those who have been given much, much is required." We can't take it with us. My pleasure is going to a friend or family members house and seeing my artwork proudly displayed on their wall, because their friend or sister or daughter or mother gave it to them as a gift. When my friend Tina was dying in January and I went for the last three weeks to stay with her and her family, I sat and sketched her day after day, and it was the joy of my life to be able to give those to her family. Of course, I kept some for myself. She gave me the gift of the love of all her family; that is what I treasure. Not because I deserve it or worked for it, but because an opportunity was there, and I took it, thank God. | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 510 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
God Bless , Gc . Also another prayer request. As you remember my friend Richard who passed away last year,another member of our praise & worship team has been diagnosed with cancer , his name is David , he is a singer. Cancer is pretty agressive as well. Some might ask what's in the water at my church? It's just in God's hands. The church is growing though. 89 members 2 years ago, we had an attendance of over 500 last Sunday. Hope all is well as you celebrate the Resurection (Not easter) this Sunday. Steel Jude 3 | ||
| inkorrekt Intermediate Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 290 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 130.253.32.155 |
PLANETKRAM: If only all of us followed the strict code of ethics as Mormons, we will have a better world. This is the best part of Mormonism, MAny mormons do not even know that Mormon Jesus was the son of a God who came to aplanet known as KOLB where He had sexual intercourse with Mary and JEsus was born. One more heresy is that JEsus and Lucifer are Cobrothers. It is not what they do that matters. But, it is what they believe. Mormons are not Christians. They are under delusions. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3075 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.89 |
The Holy Bible teaches us it is not our works that saves us, but our faith in Jesus Christ. Christians credit God for whatever good we may do, not ourselves; To God give the glory. The BEST code of ethics can be found in the Holy Bible. Read the Book of Mormon and see if you find any new 'code of ethics' that we are not taught by Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible. | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3097 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.16 |
I'm curious to know what mormons think of the DaVinci Code? It is a supposed fictional account but it states that Jesus was married to one and probably both of the Mary's. According to mormonism, He had to be in order to reach His exalted position. | ||
| steelsword Advanced Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 511 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Gc , ihave some documents that show they use the Nag Hamadi (Knostic) Gospels as a point of proof that Jesus was Married to not one but 3 wives. Steel Jude3 | ||
| godchild Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 3114 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.11 |
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