| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
why are cults like this allowed to carry on.there is only one god,who was born,crucified and died for our sins.GOD,is his name one name,one man.when people are over 18years of age,then it,s up to them to follow whatever path they want,and if they want to be in these so called "cults" then so be it,but when they have children it should be against the law to let these poor kids have anything to do with these wacko,s,until the child is adult and can make up their own mind.after all if you where a murderer or rapists,would you expect your child to be one just because you are...wise up.being in these "cults" does,nt mean your strong and living a good life.it means your weak and can be lead anywhere that someone tells you to go...or maybe is it that these members simply have the mentality of a child and therefore have no choice...what a sad world we live in...the lord will deal with theses people at the judgement.thow shall not worship false idols! | ||
| Anonymous (4.41.50.181) |
Just as an FYI, you might get more credibility if you spell checked and didn't make claims like "Mormons worship Satan" that can be refuted. Remember that you are not appointed to be another person's judge. That is Christ's job. | ||
| ashley 17 y/o mormon girl (205.206.112.244) |
i'm a 17 year old mormon girl... your example with murderers and rapists made absolutely no sense. if you're saying that you shouldnt teach your children things that you believe to be true, then what CAN you teach them? parents teach from experience, their children have the freedom to accept their parent's teachings or reject them, but why dont you believe Mormon's have the ability to choose? just because we choose something that you dont agree with or maybe even understand? and where did you get that we worship satan? we believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ his son who atoned for our sins. we agree with many of the basic principles of Christianity and believe we are Christians. i was also wondering... since you believe that "the Lord will deal with these people at the judgment..." why do you feel the need to judge us? | ||
| Anonymous (217.205.97.171) |
Why would you teach your children lies | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.15.8) |
Christians do not believe that they can become gods. | ||
| eric (217.205.97.171) |
Believing something is true is not enough, you need to know it is true. | ||
| ashley 17 y/o (66.222.226.68) |
Christian in the dictionary is defined- "1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings. 3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike. 4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents. 5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane." Using this definition... Mormons are Christian. We believe in the teachings of Christ, and do our best to follow those teachings. | ||
| Anonymous (172.144.93.68) |
Where in the Old Testament or the New Testament (the Christian Bible compiled by the Council of Nicene) say that God was once a man who reached perfection and became God? Where does the Bible say that man through spiritual progression can become perfect and can become a god? | ||
| TruthSeeker (209.150.89.225) |
Christianity is an Objective system of faith. The object of our faith is what is important. I could have all of the faith in the world that a certain bridge will support the weight of my car. The bridge may appear wonderful and stong. But if it is weak, all of my faith will not make it strong, It will still collapse under the load if it is not what it appears to be. So, my point is this: The object of the Christian faith is Jesus Christ. It is not merely enough to believe in Jesus. Does not Satan himself believe in Jesus? The object of the Christian faith, Jesus, is what we worship, adore, love, and rely upon for our salvation. Nothing else. Jesus alone. One of the Thieves who hung next to Jesus is the perfect example of how it is the object of faith that matters: This thief professed a faith in Christ and how did Jesus respond? "I am sorry, but you must first get down of the cross, pay restitution for your sins, say 20 hail mary's and write a 200 page Thesis as to why you feel you have changed before you can be with me in paradise?" or " Today you will be with me in Paradise, PERIOD." Christ Jesus and Jesus alone is our salvation. For the true Christian, Jesus brings about the change in our lives, not us for we are not capable in the Flesh to change it. Only the spitit can conquer the flesh. On the contrary, for the Mormon, the object of their salvation is the "One True Church". The Church is their object of faith and salvation for apart from it, they are destined to outer darkness, am I not correct Ashley? The bulk of their efforts try to convince us of the Church and its teachings. Not that Jesus Christ died for us, loves us and wants to have a relationship with us, regardless of what church you belong to. They constantly pit themselves AGAINST Christians, yet want to be accepted as Christians The Bible says that true believers are "Living Bricks" of Christ's Church. This Church trancends our denominations. There are Baptists that are bricks and there are Baptists that are not. There are Catholics that are bricks and there are Catholics that are not, etc. etc, fill in the blank. Get the picture? Do you really think that all Mormons have a true and sincere desire to serve Christ just because they are members of the LDS? I do not claim that any denomination, creed or sect is what saves us. Christ and Christ Jesus alone saves us through him power and our true humility and repentence. That is it. Anyone with a fervent desire to know Jesus, trust in Him for their salvation, worship and adore Him, give their lives to HIM. These are the members of the Body of Christ. | ||
| Anonymous (172.167.184.232) |
Mormons are such cowards. They won't discuss their faith rationally. They won't discuss why they believe that God was once a man. They won't discuss why they think they can all become gods. Just because Joeseph Smith said so is not enough. | ||
| TruthSeeker (209.150.89.225) |
I do not think cowardice is what motivates them. I know many Mormons that are very, very good human beings (by human standards, not Gods for we all are evil in his sight unless we have claimed the pardon offered by Jesus and his substitutionary death upon the cross). I think the Christian community does not do well by fighting in an adversarial tone. I get frustrated with their lack of "upfrontness" with what they believe. However, without love our efforts to evangelize in the Mormon community will be futile. | ||
| Anonymous (168.9.250.3) |
i belibve the mormons the majority have a very GOOD molarily of couurse you can said that the leaders and even the teachings are not correct, but we are going to be judged for the accions , and if the normal mormon or catholic for that matter behave good that means he is wrong just because his religion? no by the same token the truth is being discover each day but, even as it is happening we can not press the people to leave the cults and sects so soon, we must get the truth with care and understanding, , it is a lifetime journey by the way i ivite you to visit my pagehttp://groups.msn.com/cristianosenlanet | ||
| Anonymous (172.135.247.27) |
We are going to be judged by our faith! Our faith is mirrored by our actions. I wish that mormons, as well as everyone else in the world, will be saved. But the mormon belief prevents that. Mormon belief is that God was a man who became perfect, then became God. Belief that they too can become perfect and then become gods themselves is blasphemy. If mormons can get rid of these false doctrines then maybe they will become born again and deserve the title Christian they cloak themselves with. But they decieve people that they are Christian too. I have challenged mormons to debate these two points with me but so far no takers. | ||
| Anonymous (68.42.136.74) |
I love Mormons. If anyone was to become a "God," why would we want someone other than a mormon to be so? Who else would be more forgiving and loving as we know is of God. | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
Mormons do not worship satan ....we dont have horns and we dont grow fangs ... www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_cult.shtml | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.208.124) |
But you do worship yourselves and your leaders. To believe you can become God is self worship, buddhist and new age. It is not Christian. | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.208.124) |
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young delivered the "goods" to people. They gave man what he wanted to hear. That we are all sons of God. That we are all at the same level as Christ. That we can all become gods. All we have to do is to progress spiritually. Why can't we do it? Wasn't God once a man just like us? Blasphemy! | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
I worship myself??? show me anywhere where it says that!! I suggest you read somemore because what you write is misleading and untrue!Thats all!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (172.164.67.63) |
Can you become a god through spiritual progression? Yes or no. If yes, that is self worship. | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
well, thats your opinion and it doesnt mean your right..........and thats ok if thats what you think we think .....it really makes no differance to me ....because you will keep telling your version of how you think mormons believe ...and i will know how i believe ...and no, we do not become god ....read somemore!! | ||
| Anonymous (172.162.198.127) |
Ok, answer me this anon 67... do mormons believe that God was once a man? | ||
| Anonymous (172.162.198.127) |
Very clever evasion on the last question. Read the question again. The question was, I repeat, can man become "a" god through spiritual progression? | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
i answered you and im sorry that your not getting the answer you want .....im not being evasive i put the website on here if you want to read more about it then go look .....i told you no man cannot become a god though spiritual progression . you should know that after all your the expert on mormons ..right? you can email me and we can talk more about this there if you'd like ...ck29_again@hotmail.com | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
172 , for all of your question you can go to www.latterday saint.org ask anything you want. if that doesnt help you then there is a number you can call and ask a question/ questions there. I dont know if its really answers your looking for tho or just trying to prove your right im wrong! | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.53.29) |
Do you believe that God was once a man? I'm waiting for your answer. | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
yup i sure do . | ||
| Anonymous (172.131.120.149) |
Then I will pray for you. | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
I will pray for you also | ||
| Anonymous (217.42.127.14) |
What an interesting discussion - 172 and 67 both arguing their point of view and both completely wrong! 67 - read your doctrine. A man cannot become god but your spirit, a child of God can progress and do so. We are placed on this world to develop a moral character - afterall a god without one would be a very dangerous individual indeed. 172 - Do you set yourself up as judge? Is that not specifically forbiden in the bible - no matter which version you believe in? Now - what about the 'both wrong' bit? Let me ask you all something- He was born on December 25th to a virgin mother; He was called a saviour, the only begotten son, and died to save humanity; he was crucified on a Friday - "Black Friday" and his blood was spilled to redeem the Earth; he suffered death with nails and stakes; he was the Father and Son combined in an earthly body; he was put in a tomb but three days later his body was gone and he was resurrected as the most high God; his body was symbolised as bread and eaten by those who worshiped him. Does this sound familiar? Jesus? No - it's a description of Attis a God worshipped in what is now Turkey about 1000 years BC. How about another example - the biblical story of Noah and the flood is an almost exact copy of part of the Epic of Gilgamesh which was written over a thousand years before the old testiment 'Noah' version was. On close investigation there seems to be very little of the bible that is truely original. As for the book of Mormon - It seems to have been padded out with large parts of Isiah and contains just as many inconsistancies as the bible. As to the golden plates it was copied from - there is a description of their size. Use a little physics and calculate the weight of the plates based on that description. How did JS manage to carry them home? LDS (Mormons) will tell you that the bible has been corrupted and misstranslated over time. True - the Synod of 631 being a prime example - Facts amply supported by the Dead Sea Scrolls which show the early Christian church led by James the brother of Jesus to be a Essene group and angry at the false doctrine being spread about Jesus by Paul. So also has the book of Mormon been altered since the 1830 version produced by JS. Sorry guys - you are all basing your religion on books written by plagarists. Don't just take my word for it - look my comments up yourself but remember two things - First can you trust anyone to be an expert if they support any dogma and second - Does it matter anyway if you lead a moral life and try to leave the world a better place? | ||
| Anonymous (172.165.124.231) |
Yes it does matter. Christ said "I am the light, the truth, and the way. No one comes to the Father except through me." Being warm, fuzzy and kind to animals is not enough. So make your choice, I've made mine. There are Christian beliefs and there are Mormon beliefs. They are not the same. When Mormons say they are Christians, that is a lie. The go way beyond the basic fundamental beliefs that the catholic, orthodox and protestant churches share. So sorry guys, 217 and 67. You are both wrong. 67: Man did not become God. And man cannot become God. 217:Stating my beliefs does not make me judgemental. Very funny. You charge me with that and then you turn around and judge me. As to your wild dalliance through ancient history, that is your interpretation, not mine. | ||
| Anonymous (217.42.127.14) |
I assume then that you believe in a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit. I.e. 3 gods just as the Mormans do. If however you believe in a 3 in 1 god - that's not an original idea either. Let me correct you again - Mormons do NOT believe that a man can become a god. They believe that their spirit is a child of God, not in the same way as Jesus was a child of God, he was a 'begotten' son. For a man to become god he/she must be transfigured and advance yet more if worthy. A transfigured man would be an imortal and this would happen to you when resurected or at the second comming (whichever comes first). Mormons too believe that 'No one comes to the Father except through Jesus', so do the J.W. except they seem to think that there's a limit on the numbers who can be saved (144,000). The muslims believe in a similar theory but the medium is Mohamed not Jesus. (yet another religion based on a plagarised book). The pagans, believe/d something similar (yes - there are still those who believe in gods such as Mab). 172 why are you so angry against other religions especially the LDS (Mormons)? They don't accuse your religion of lies - they just say you have been mislead. They do believe enough in their religion that they are prepared to give up 10% of their income to fund their church and care enough about the rest of us to fund missionary efforts to try and put us on 'the right path'. Do you care enough to do that or spend 3 hours at church each Sunday? | ||
| Anonymous (172.156.226.45) |
217, why are you so angry? I question the mormon faith, which you are obviously not one, and you butt in to interject your warm fuzzies that everyone is saved. I'm trying to have a dialogue here with mormons and you snipe from the sidelines without stating your beliefs. To question is to learn. If what you say is true, then let it be authenticated by coming from a mormon. | ||
| Anonymous (65.54.97.191) |
In response to how the LDS church believes that they can become gods: Our Father in Heaven, or God, did not just appear one day with all the powers and knowledge and perfection that He posseses. He gained these things through a very long process...learning and progression have no end, remember. Everyone whom our father in heaven has created (evryone) has the ability and potential to become like Him: perfect and all-knowledgable. Like I said, it is simply a process, a journey. I believe that we can all become gods in some day and at one time...governing our own children and creating our own worlds and teaching THEM to strive to progress to eventual perfection. God's whole Plan is an eternal round, not a line: one god, one world, one judgment, the end. Our whole existence holds a place in a circle of progression and continuation. Our Heavenly Father loves us and does not look down upon us but instead looks at us with a perfect faith and hope that we will choose to follow Him and His son Jesus Christ and eventually become like them, perfect. | ||
| Anonymous (172.136.89.2) |
Thanks for your response. 65. Now will you please give me scriptural support for this premise. Certainly not Genesis. God is all knowing and all powerful from the very beginning. Where do you get this idea? | ||
| Anonymous (65.54.98.144) |
172, this is for you. Here are some scriptures I found to support my beliefs. First, there are some from the Bible. Matthew 5:48 reads, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." Also, Psalms 82:6, "Ye are Gods; and all of you are children of the most high." Now I want you to know 172 that I believe the Bible to be the true word of God. However, I also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God: Another Testiment of Jesus Christ. 172, I'm sure you might have heard these things before but I want you to know that they are not empty words and that I truly mean what I say. You may not feel the same way about The Book of Mormon as I do, but I would like to show you what I found in it to support my belief about our ability to become just like our Father in Heaven. From the book of 4th Nephi, chapter 1 verse 17 reads, "...They were in one, the children (followers) of Christ, and heirs to the Kingdom of God." And in the Doctrine and Covenants, which is also within the B. of M., section 132:20 reads, "Then shall they (children of God)be Gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." And verse 37 reads, "...Issac and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commandedk they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods." I also have some teachings from the LDS prophet Joseph Smith: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man to another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did...What is it [eternal life]? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." 172, this is some of the sources from which I base my belief. But the main reason I believe these things is simply that I feel it. Please don't roll your eyes or anything...I am simply being honest with you. I feel it within me so strong that it leaves no room in my heart or my mind for any kind of doubt. 172, please don't take my word for it though. I suggest you talk to God about it. Pray to your Heavenly Father about all these things. He will hear you...you know that he hears all of his childrens prayers. Please dont trust mine or your own judgement about these things until you pray about it-if you choose. But I must warn you that when praying about such BIG doctrine as this it might take a couple of prayers before you feel you have recieved a sincere answer from above. I am confident that this will give you more satisfaction than anything I could "preach" to you. | ||
| Anonymous (172.151.130.196) |
Thanks for your answer. Yes, I rolled my eyes alot on that one. But I appreciate your honesty. I will study psalms 82.6 and get back to you. I believe that it is taken out of context. Mormonism seems more like new age buddhist scifi. than Christianity. The problem I have is when mormons claim to be Christians. And yet Christ told us none of what you said. I am very negative when it comes to adding to the Bible. It is forbidden. When Christ said "Be ye perfect...... He knew that we could only try to be perfect. Our faith in Him alone saves us. Human perfection is insanity. Can not be achieved. I prefer to wait until I get to heaven to have other truths revealed to me. Christ toild us all we need to know for now. All else is speculation. Would I believe Joseph Smith? No. I think he was on an ego trip to think he could become a god. There are many new age religions that believe the same thing. That man is or can be divine. I reject that Asian thinking. I appreciate your answering my question though. I have been asking it for months. | ||
| Anonymous (66.56.149.187) |
Jesus and lucifer are brothers. "The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God--Lucifer. This spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind" (Milton R. Hunter, First Council of Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15). | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
There have been some mix ups here. Let me set you strait about the whole gods thing: Can people become gods? -yes, but we still will and do worship our heavenly father, always. This is not self-worship because we never worship ourselves in the first place. But only mormons who have been baptised and married (on earth of in the after life) can obtain this glory. Was god once a man? -no, god sent his son, jesus, to earth for us to be saved. That's just how it is. promise. Also, I promise that all of you who just keep bashing mormons will pray to god with a broken heart and contrite spirit then he will tell you how true the LDS faith is. We really aren't just a bunch of weirdos. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 188 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.153.19.106 |
Anonymous (65.54.97.191) Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 5:07 pm: "In response to how the LDS church believes that they can become gods: Our Father in Heaven, or God, did not just appear one day with all the powers and knowledge and perfection that He posseses. He gained these things through a very long process...learning and progression have no end, remember. Everyone whom our father in heaven has created (evryone) has the ability and potential to become like Him: perfect and all-knowledgable. Like I said, it is simply a process, a journey. I believe that we can all become gods in some day and at one time...governing our own children and creating our own worlds and teaching THEM to strive to progress to eventual perfection. God's whole Plan is an eternal round, not a line: one god, one world, one judgment, the end. Our whole existence holds a place in a circle of progression and continuation. Our Heavenly Father loves us and does not look down upon us but instead looks at us with a perfect faith and hope that we will choose to follow Him and His son Jesus Christ and eventually become like them, perfect." Then what you say here is in contradiction to what a mormon said above AND what you posted on another thread. Man become a god? What a cosmic joke!  | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
how in what way does that not support what i said? just cause i didn't go into details? sorry. You won't think our faith is a cosmic joke when you're standing in front of jesus at the judgement....maybe laughing in his face. Have fun with that. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.148.54.249 |
I believe mormonism is blasphemy, heresy and displeasing to God. Your no different than those California new age cults that believe man is god. Blasphemy! | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
Riiiight, no different? How about they're weirdos and what they teach really is blasphemy. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 199 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Teaching that God is once a man and that man can become a God IS blasphemy to the Christian faith. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) New member Username: solopilot Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Where in the Bible does it say that, Franklin? It is blasphemy to add your own doctrines then claim them to be Christ's. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Junior Member Username: overseas Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Solopilot can only afford to question doctrines of the Bible because Mormons put the authority of Mormon books above Bible. So whenever a Mormon says 'look what I found in the Bible' the other guys just remember him that Bible should be corrected by their Books (Pearl of Great Price etc.). So they are not afraid to mess with the Bible. Solopilot, you should note that there atheists that read the Bible and understood it very well, it is just they do not want to accept it. Even these atheists would lough at your God/ man and man/ God doctrine. Right in Genesis it is shown how man was created by God and very separately of God; all Bible prophets taught people that 'God's ways are not man's ways'. Mormons go hand in hand with New Age and Hindu gurus that promise to make gods out of ordinary people. Comparing to Mormons, Jehova Witnesses seem to be very orthodox (although dead wrong). Mormons are not Christians because being a Christian means to recognise the authority of Christ. But Mormons put their books authority above the | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Junior Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
Overseas, I question ALL doctrines before I accept them. I questioned Mormonism very strongly, and got stronger answers. I deal with the Bible because you judge the rest of the Gospel against just that one part of it. We in the Church -- ALL of us, worldwide -- spend a year at a time studying the OT, and another year on the NT, reading them all the way through, then a year on the BofM, one on the D&C and PofGP, then start over again with the OT. I know a number of atheists. They laugh at the whole idea if God in the first place. If they take the time to discuss in greater detail, they REALLY laugh at the arguments over the doctrines of the actual nature of God. For you to use the atheists as a proof that my religion is wrong is really pretty silly. They think that you are I are both equally insane. Nothing in the Bible refutes the doctrine that we existed as spirits prior to our birth here. Several verses support this idea. And who knows how much of the hundreds of pages of letters and books which the Councils of Carthage discarded might have discussed the issue in greater detail? Yes, being a Christian means recognizing the authority of Christ. Being a Protestant means denying that such authority is needed to speak for Christ, while we not only recognize the authority, but also the need for that authority in this modern world. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Member Username: overseas Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 82.76.248.249 |
You do not recognise spiritual athority of God (in this respect - who baptised John the Baptist, Solopilot ?). We christians have trust in the Holy Spirit that does not need man to give authority. Truth is communicated by the written Word of the Bible and people believe it under the influence of the Holy Spirit. I will not post here anymore. All, take care. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
Oh, I definitely recognise it. But look in the New Testament and you will see condemnations of those who acted without authority. | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
if God was once a man... then who created him?.. and uhh how did he create the universe and came up with the world and men and women?... wait a minute wasnt he a man once?... living where? i mean he did create the world and came up with humans so the only way this could make sense is if God was a man created by some other god in some other world then he became a god and created his own universe and own world etc... | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
RG: The problem is that your first question is one which can't be answered. "Where did God come from?" is beyond the realm of human understanding. It doesn't matter what his nature is. | ||
| seekingtruth (seekingtruth) New member Username: seekingtruth Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 24.119.171.216 |
I agree with what you said! It's true that children are innocent victims, but young adults can be victims as well. Especially when they are carefully taken in by the cult and all it's snake oil salesman has to offer. Brainwashing should be illegal. When an entire family can say that it's being done, then why is there no help? Why is it ok to spiritually abuse someone that is over 18?? It's NOT!! your quote: Message Anonymous Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 9:05 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- why are cults like this allowed to carry on.there is only one god,who was born,crucified and died for our sins.GOD,is his name one name,one man.when people are over 18years of age,then it,s up to them to follow whatever path they want,and if they want to be in these so called "cults" then so be it,but when they have children it should be against the law to let these poor kids have anything to do with these wacko,s,until the child is adult and can make up their own mind.after all if you where a murderer or rapists,would you expect your child to be one just because you are...wise up.being in these "cults" does,nt mean your strong and living a good life.it means your weak and can be lead anywhere that someone tells you to go...or maybe is it that these members simply have the mentality of a child and therefore have no choice...what a sad world we live in...the lord will deal with theses people at the judgement.thow shall not worship false idols! | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
"Brainwashing should be illegal." What about "cult deprogramming"? | ||
| marie (marie) Member Username: marie Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.231.183.142 |
but when they have children it should be against the law to let these poor kids have anything to do with these wacko,s, Do you realize that the secular liberals in our society think the same thing about Christians? | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
OK i know its crazy to think about where God came from... but dont u think its crazier to think that he was once a man cuz i mean its easier for all of us to ponder where God as a supreme being came from than if he was a man after all it was he who created all men so if he created the world and men then how was he a man once... before man even existed or the world or universe? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 198 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . ." "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him . . ." It makes more sense to think that he was once a man than to think that he wasn't, seeing as the Bible seems to indicate that he was . . . | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Ok how many men (besides God cuz u think he was a man at one point) do you know that became gods?... i believe there is only one God and there will always be one God its truly ridiculous to think that we as humans could turn into gods | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 201 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
I don't know any. I also don't know anyone who died in World War II, but it's pretty much a given that at least ONE man did. For that matter, I've never been to Europe, but I'm still willing to believe that it's there. It's ridiculous to think that the image in which we were created is not that of God. Why do you think that we were created in the first place? Do you have your own kids, and if so, do you intend for them to always be infants? | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
wow... that was totally irrelevant... i asked you if you knew or heard about any man that became a god not if you believed in things uve never seen or experienced... and as far as i know christianism is a monotheistic faith and i think God intended it to be that way and only that way for he said not to make idols or false gods and well any god that isnt God would be considered a false god. (Message edited by rgomez15 on January 11, 2005) | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 202 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
;) Of course it was. Same for your comment. The Bible says that we were made like God. That's good enough for me. | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
So ur saying that this joseph smith dude became a god and now he's the god of some parallel universe or something? | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
And by the way i do believe that we were created in his image but i do ot believe that he was once human... because to be a human means to be a sinner and to have have all these human defects as to giving in to the flesh etc... such a perfect being as God could have never been human because only through him can our spirit be made anything close to being progressed and no matter how full of God we are and how blessed we are we are still human and still do such things as sin thats why God will always forgive us. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 204 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
No, that's not what I'm saying at all, any more than that John dude or that Moses dude did. | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
ok the only way mormonism would make sense would be that since the universe is sooo big and there are so many galaxies etc that when men become gods they just go into their own little space in the universe and create their own version of the milky way with their own sun and planets and humans and then they make their own bible and stuff... all that from a mere human being from earth that somehow managed to become spiritually "perfect"... but what exactly is "perfect"? and uhh like i said it would only make sense that way but the bible goes into detail on every aspect of God and the apocalypse and it describes heaven and hell to an extent so why doesnt it talk about how and where this whole man to god transformation takes place and what it entails... and please dont say its in the book of mormon because if God intended us to be gods at one point it would be something very important just as important as judgement and heaven.. which are in the bible so why would this whole man to god thing not be in the bible? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 206 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Since you don't know Mormon doctrine, it's kind of silly for you to say "the only way" ANYTHING about Mormonism. It IS in the Bible! In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus commanded us to "Be ye therefore perfect, like your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48) | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
it does say that and ive looked it up.. but it doesnt go into any detail about this whole turning into god deal and it really doesnt say anything else on the bible about being perfect... and when it says be ye perfect im sure he means be perfect to the best of your ability because just like the saying says "we're only human" | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 213 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
I'd be willing to bet that Jesus could have said "be the best that you can," but he specifically told them (US!) to try to be PERFECT, and to be like our Heavenly Father. | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) Intermediate Member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.13 |
Strong's Number: 5046 Browse Lexicon Original Word Word Origin tevleioß from (5056) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Teleios 8:67,1161 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech tel'-i-os Adjective Definition brought to its end, finished wanting nothing necessary to completeness perfect that which is perfect consummate human integrity and virtue of men full grown, adult, of full age, mature Mt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: The Greek word has to do with being complete, not being God, a god. The gulf between an infinite God and finite man is not going to be bridged. It's interesting that the second verse states it clearly that they are already perfect, meaning complete in Christ not perfect in the sense of being god or anything like it. M or Michael | ||
| rgomez15 (rgomez15) New member Username: rgomez15 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
thank you mike | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 284 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
Mike: So, you're saying that there's something which God can't do? That is, he can't create children who can someday be like him? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 56 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.214 |
Who created the mormon Heavenly Father (God)? You have to remember mormons are not taught all the things we have discussed here. As explained, life as a Mormon is a series of progressions also. Their missionaries do not go out and tell men that they will become God one day. I accidentally heard from a investigater's class teacher that God came to earth and had intercourse, literally, with Mary, to concieve Jesus, for example. When the book "The Godmakers" came out, the world was shocked and the leaders of the mormon church were mortified. Of course, they denied it all. You will not hear any mormon praise the authors for publishing this info. The eye opening began from there, though of course many people had refused to join the church just because they couldn't accept the idea of a living prophet and seer (note:The Bible warns against seers), or that there was another part of the Bible, which at the time was called a 'continuation'. Would someone find the Articles of Faith and print them here, please. Nothing that is in it would be unacceptable to a christian who was looking for the true church. This is what new converts are newly taught. You don't have to study the other books in mormon theology or the book of mormon to become a member, anymore than you have to read the Holy Bible to become a christian. It is a very slow progression. Our family, for expample, became so entrenched in the church, it is a very difficult decision to leave the church even if you don't believe it. As in any other organization, you become friends with the other members, you socialize with them, you work with them because of course mormons will hire mormons first (as any organization does), people move closer to other people who believe as they do. The mormon church has many good values, feeding the poor, etc.. I did not know one Mormon during all my years as one who would admit that the men were going to be Gods. At least nothing was said in the Sacrament meetings or Sunday School classes. At the time I was a member, the Catholics were the ones who were torn apart and despised by members and teachers alike. I am telling only my own experiences. Now it seems all Christain Churches do not have any authority, and are teaching wrong by teaching the Holy Bible is above reproof. You can read from the younger mormons here who deny and deny about the God thing, until they are pushed so far they expose the truth. Why not tell the truth in the first place? I'm not lying about that, all you have to do is read this page. The problem is, so many mormons are so involved in the church by the time they learn the truth, they have to give up their whole life to leave it. It's their whole life. I can understand that. It was very hard for me to leave the church. But when I started telling my relatives the truth, I was shocked to hear from some of them that they knew the church was not true but they weren't going to leave it because of their husbands or wives, and they didn't see the problem with that decision. I am thankful to know that other than myself and my children, at least one brother-in-law has left the church, and he was born into it. His wife was never mormon. DO YOU GET THE POINT?????? I didn't worry too much about non mormon friends going to hell because they would see the truth during the Millenium, BEFORE the JUDGEMENT. Also, in Mormon scripture, there is no 'HELL' taught. This is what has angered me so over the years. I love many mormons, they are my family, but the CHURCH LEADERSHIP is leading them down a path they may never be saved from, FOR ETERNITY. I don't know if anyone read the message I sent to sp this morning. I meant every word. I do respect him for his convictions and I wouldn't want anyone to FORCE me to believe anything either. If anyone believes the Bible is not the Holy Word of God, then have enuf guts to throw it away and go your own path. The spirit is not just in the words. God fills us with the spirit as we learn from it and follow it's commandments. We aren't punished for sinning because God is a mean person. If we aren't disciplined, how will we know the correct life to live? I pray that you share the Spirit I have in me. I experience his presence in miraculous ways and the more I trust he has given us the truth and only the truth, the more blessings I recieve from him in all ways. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.214 |
Ashley, you need to realize we are not judging you, just the organization you are a member of. Do not take it personally, though I know that is difficult. We love you and fear for your salvation. Please, if you believe anything written in the Holy Bible, pray and read, at least the New Testamentm which fulfills the Old Testament and tells us what is to come. Start reading and asking questions. Do not stay in a cocoon as long as I did. It nearly destroyed my relationship with my family. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 58 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.214 |
IF PARTS OF THE HOLY BIBLE CAN BE TORN OUT, WHAT MAN HAS THE POWER TO SAY IT SHOULD BE CAST OFF AS LIES AND FICTION? WHAT MAN HAS THE POWER TO DECIDE WHICH PARTS SHOULD BE DELETED, AND WHY NOT JUST ALL OF IT? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Either Christ is who He says He is. Or He is the biggest liar that ever lived. I choose the former. Same as the Bible. Either accept all of it as the TRUTH or none of it. I accept all of it as the truth. No man should add or subtract from it. That is satan's game. Add a little bit there. Subtract a little bit there. That's what the mormons have done. Added and subtracted. I have only one problem with mormons believing what they want to believe. When they call themselves "Christians", that is a problem. I believe they do that to deceive. They are no more Christian than a hindu or a buddhist is. In fact they have more in common with Buddhism than with Christianity. Drop the name "Christ" or forever bear the criticism. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 61 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.214 |
It is obvious sp has not read his Holy Bible, if he has one. He would understand God cannot create God. The Bible tells everything he created. There was no mention of JS, BY or Mormon, though all is in Revelations, including decievers, seers, etc. so does not understand the essence of God. I can see now so clearly why he didn't become a Methodist Minister. He knows nothing about holy scripture. Maybe he should start reading it. It may reveal much more than he wants. That's his problem. He loves the idea of being a god. Oh, what a god that would be. God forbid I ever have to live on another planet. By the way, how do your mormon gods create planets. I can just see all the clutter in our beautiful heaven with it's stars, moon, and sun set so perfectly. Maybe he is an evolutionist. What do you think about evolution? Read Holy Bible: Immutable and unchangeable, incomprehensible, jealous (you better watch out for that one. Of course, mormons probably think that was a mistranslation.), Knowledge of God, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Perfection of, Unchangeable and Unsearchable. I know there will be no reading. I published all of these once and not one response from the (no word can describe). | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 62 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.214 |
I just reread sp's last post. Quote: Why can't God create a God. \Not even mormons to my knowledge ever said God could create a God. I think he has just committed sacrilege according to his own church. They teach Jesus is just a man and the God of this earth. Not that there is another 'Heavenly Father'. They do not believe in the Trinity, so how can he answer that. With total gibberish! He cannot answer my question! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 63 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.115 |
Franklin, I have just Read James 1. I have decided what the Lord wants me to do. It says that Quote:Pure religion (I believe this is the only time the word 'religion' is mentioned in the Bible), and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. Therefore, I am going to take myself off this board completely. I need to spend my time as the Lord leads me. I think this was a god lesson for me. Verse 3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. Verse 4. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. Verse 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Verse 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. I think this whole chapter speaks to me. I wish we could get on another chat. I think I could learn with you. I will not give out my personal email address. You can guess why. God bless you One question if you don't mind. Are you a minister and which church do you belong to, if any? Thank you again May the Lord watch between me and thee while we are absent one from the other. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 291 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: You don't hear Mormons praise "the Godmakers" because it's NOT TRUE. The National Conference of Christians and Jews had this to say about it: "The film does not - in our opinion - fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon history, or Mormon belief. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism. It is not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith." You wrote: "I did not know one Mormon during all my years as one who would admit that the men were going to be Gods." This PROVES that you are not telling the truth, either about being a Mormon for 26 years or that what you say here is what you learned in the Church. When I was investigating the Church, I was told this by the missionaries who taught me. It is a basic, fundamental belief in the Church, and you can't have ever gone through a Temple session (or Temple Prep class) without being told about this IN DETAIL. The only place I've ever heard the idea that this is kept secret is from people quoting from Wally Martin or some of the early Decker and Tanner stuff. Uh . . .GC . . ? The Bible was compiled nearly 400 years after Christ was born. For 350 years there was no Bible. If you want to talk about "tearing things out" of it, perhaps you should study the Third Councils of Carthage (AD 391 - 394), in which many books and letters were determined not to be scripture -- such as the REAL first epistle to the Corinthians. Or maybe you can explain why the KJV has had so many revisions, including the deletion of entire BOOKS which were in earlier editions? Franklin: Criticism from you is an honor. You embody everything that is ludicrous in anti-Mormon activism. I'm considering saving your posts to share with others. GC (again): You are saying that God CAN'T DO SOMETHING? Even when I was a Protestant, such a believe was considered blasphemy. I HAVE answered your questions (those which made sense). I have also pointed out your lies, which even the most cursory investigation of the Church would prove out. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.205 |
YOUR RESPONSE CONFIRMS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING. THE MORMON CHURCH CHANGES IT'S DOCTRINE WHICHEVER WAY THE WIND BLOWS, WHILE CLAIMING THAT THEIR'TRUTHS' HAVE NEVER CHANGED. MY BIBLE IS THE SAME ONE I HAD WHEN I WAS A LITTLE GIRL SITTING IN A BAPTIST CHURCH. MY GOD CAN BE TRUSTED BECAUSE HE IS THE SAME GOD. I DON'T EXPECT MORMONS TO READ WHAT I WRITE AND UNDERSTAND. ONLY CHRISTIANS WILL SEE WITH OPEN EYES AND HEARTS. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 65 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.205 |
THANK GOD FOR A CHRISTIAN PRESIDENT WHO IS NOT AFRAID TO SAY HE IS. I HOPE ALL OF YOU WERE ABLE TO HEAR WINTLEY PHIPPS SING 'HEAL OUR LAND, LET US PUT OUR TRUST IN THEE, IF WE WOULD BE FREE'. GOD BLESS AMERICA, DURING THE OPENING CEREMONIES OF THE INAUGURATION.  | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 295 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: Okay, so which of the KJVs do you use, and why that version instead of the others? Do you even know how many different versions there are, and how they differ? Hmmm . . .what about the NIV (which is now the version of choice of Evangelical pastors, while Baptists continue to use the KJV)? Is that the word of God or not? When Protestant cults use that translation -- which has thrown out WHOLE VERSES which are in all versions of the KJV and WHOLE BOOKS which were in the first KJV editions -- are they "taking away from" the Bible? Or did the early KJV "add to" the Bible? I notice that you completely avoid the issue of the Godmakers movie, since a council mostly comprised of PROTESTANTS has condemned it as being falsehood. Funny how an ex-Mormon wouldn't have seen even the more obvious errors which the Protestant clergymen did . . . Well, at least we agree on Duhhh-bya. ;) | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Share my posts freely with your mormon buddies. Let the world know we are are on to your dirty little secrets. That you view women as chattel and you view our God almighty as some demi-god of a backwater solar system in the Milky Way. You think by diminishing God you make yourselves greater. By making lucifers mistake, being jealous of God, you will suffer the same fate. Eternal separation from your creator. There never has been a buddhist that has reached perfection. Neither a mormon. No man, except Christ, the Son of God. Only through accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior will you be perfect in God's eyes. Only through Him. Cease the self love and worship. Love and worship God. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 296 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: I just might. You reaffirm our opinion about the absurdities in anti-Mormon Protestantism. "Women as chattel" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH If you had the SLIGHTEST clue . . ! | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
It is not the Protestants that are absurd. What is absurd is anti-Christ mormonism. If women are not inferior in a mormon male's eyes, then why can't women have more than one husband here or in the celestial kingdom, the illusion you call heaven? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 298 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: Yes, the idea that Mormonism is anti-Christ is truly absurd. Let me get this straight, you are complaining that we DON'T practice polygamy???? I can't have more than one wife here. I can't get to the highest levels of heaven WITHOUT a wife. I don't see how this makes women "chattel." The oldest women's organization in the world was started over 160 years ago as the "Women's Relief Society." The RS continues today worldwide, with headquarters in its own multistory building next to the building which houses the offices of the Prophet and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. There is no similar building for the priesthood, no "Hall of Elders" or "Seventy Building." The RS Presidency speak at the worldwide General Conference of the Church, held twice each year. Members of the RS presidency have written bestselling books and lead more members of the Church than do any Priesthood leaders other than the Apostles and First Presidency. That's not too bad for "chattel," di ba? | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 246 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Q:I can't have more than one wife here. I can't get to the highest levels of heaven WITHOUT a wife. What about apostle Paul recommending as his opinion that it is better alone than married ? Was the old man crazy or joking ? Also Jesus addressing the issue of staying alone vs. being married. At least these instances show it is ok either way. Nothing about any special requirements for higher levels. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 300 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Overseas: Is that the same Paul who said that it's better to marry than to burn? ;) Note that that whole passage in "First" Corinthians (it's actually at least the second epistle to them) starts with "it is good for a man not to touch a woman." That would mean no kids. However, in the passage he repeatedly says that marriage is good, so obviously he is saying that those who are not married should "abide even as I," while husbands and wives don't own their bodies (the body belongs to the spouse), thus adultery is a no-no, it's not marriage that he condemns. "Marriage in honorable in all . . ." Hebrews 13:4 But if marriage were wrong, why would Jesus have been at one, making water into wine so that the feast could continue . . ? | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 247 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
I didn't say marriage is wrong (to forbid marriage is heresy as per Bible). I said Bible shows it is OK both ways. But you said it's mandatory for your 'religion', which is surely not biblical. What if your wife leaves you, does this threaten your 'salvation' ? I am putting words in brackets cause we surely have very different definitions. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.236 |
Because they do not know our God, our Jesus or our Holy Spirit. Some are sincere and some are ignorant, but most will not let go of their pride. Pride is one of the strongest tools of Satan. But Mormons don't really believe in Satan or hell so it doesn't matter to them. What they will not understand is that God is LIGHT, and the planets Mormons hope to inhabit will be cold, dark places. Do you think a Mormon Prophet or Council of the Twelve (the other prophets in the Mormon Church) would waste their time in a headquarters that teaches how to do housework and having babies. Of Course Not. Though the old testament names prophetesses, Mormons have thrown out (excommunicated) women who desire to be one. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 72 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.236 |
Overseas, you waste your time trying to convert St. soLot. He's having too much fun, and since he finally found a place that accepts him (or in his words, makes him comfortable) why would he leave it. He would rather take the easy road, not the road to salvation. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 302 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Overseas: Ah. Okay. But actually, no, it's not mandatory. It's better, but not being married won't keep you out of heaven. GC: Oh, come on! Is there NOTHING that will make you say ANYTHING nice about the Church? Are you aware of the fact that when a couple who has been sealed in the Temple is divorced, only the WOMAN can request that their sealing be cancelled? If she doesn't, then he is stuck with being sealed to her. That desire is not why those two women were excommunicated. They were excommunicated for public statements which proved that they didn't hold to the doctrines of the Church. In other words, it was an official recognition of something that they had already done, the same as your excommunication -- they (and you) had left the Church. Excommunication is not punishment. Some people want to be completely away from the Church (such as you did), and others need it as the first step in the process of repentance and return to full fellowship. If you think the road to salvation was "easy" for me, consider what I went through just in joining the Church. I had to deal with the realization that much of what I had been taught was wrong, that there were answers which Protestantism didn't understand. I had to give up a career which I had been studying toward. My Protestant "brothers" told my family to throw me out of my own home because I would be required to give it to the Church. This is your idea of "easy salvation"? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 73 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.153 |
The Bible teaches first, God, Family, then the church. I'd be interested to know what a Mormon wife thinks of her husband and the church. But that's none of my business. soLOT cannot make up his mind whether I was a Mormon or not. What or who changed his mind, I wonder. Your "Protestant Brothers" were wrong. Anyone who understands Christianity would know that. That is exactly why I have not joined another church. The only ones I have gone to and learned scripture 'only' were nondenominational. All I had to do was read Factnet responder's and it is easy to see there are only a few who have sincere scriptural answers, not for their own glory, but to become closer to God in their walk with him. I am Scripture taught. In other words, I find the answers for myself by studying scripture. By the Power of the Holy Spirit I am able to see HIS works accomplished, not mine, but his in me and in others who believe. The Bible teaches our bodies are a TEMPLE. Where Jesus is, the TEMPLE is. When Jesus comes again the angels will not shout, "run home quickly and put on your best suit of clothing". In the grave, our bodies go back to dust as stated in the Holy Bible. We are not going to rise up in the flesh in our finery and be gathered to Jesus. The ones who remain will not all be dressed in their finest clothes. They may be working in the field, or be oily from working on their car, or changing a babies diaper in their nightclothes, or in a hospital in those backless gowns. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.153 |
In answer to your statement soLOT, why are there no women prophets in the Mormon Church? From my understanding of scripture, to some (women and men) gifts are given: Teaching (women are allowed to teach the children, which come before the church), Healing---prophets--of which the Bible names many women---Speaking of tongues (which is a language you have not been taught), and others. The Holy Bible says "God is not a respecter of persons"). These are not questions soLOT would answer before, I doubt he will now. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 310 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: My mind was not changed. I was giving you the benefit of a very slight doubt. Now you criticize for doing so. You know so little about the nuts and bolts of the life of a Mormon that the logical assumption is that you are lying, simply making the same sort of claim that Wally Martin used to gain credence for his own lies about the Church. In other words, you learn how to be a Protestant by reading the Bible that the Catholics and Orthodox gave you. Makes perfect sense, from a "non-denominational" point of view. As you are someone who doesn't believe at all in prophets, there is no answer which would satisfy you about why certain people are prophets and others are not. If God is not in any way a "respecter of persons," then why were only a handful of people ever called as prophets in the OT? You are engaged in the popular Protestant pastime of twisting the Bible to mean what you want it to mean at any given moment. Remember, though, that same Bible includes the admonition that women are to remain silent in church. One of the more rabid Baptists I know takes that absolutely literally, and forbids his wife to speak even one word in the chapel. He thinks that YOU are not Christian enough. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 80 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.27 |
The Holy Bible does not speak of a chapel. It does speak of Church, and often: Place of worship; Courts, House of God, Sanctuary, House of Prayer, Tabernacle, Temple, Zion, Holy Place, Holy Temple, My Father's House, Christ is Head of, Government of Churches, Love for, Membership in. There is also no mention of Wards, Stakes. These are manmade. The church is God's house, which Jesus is Head of. Pretty basis for those who seek truth. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 81 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.27 |
Paul taught at many Churches. If you study the Bible, you will see he was admonishing women in one church. The Bible teaches that men are to be the spiritual leader. Wives are to submit to husbands BUT if a husband were to tell his wife to do something that is against Christ's teachings, (as many do) she is to say NO!! The Bible also teaches that Submission is Mutual. A man and wife are mutual (one) in the sight of God. Subjection is forced. The Mormon Church teaches subjection of women, which is totally against Christ's teachings. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 82 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.27 |
It seems odd to me that someone as so learned in the mormon church thinks Christ is coming to Salt Lake when The mormon church teaches that jesus will come to the place originally chosen by js., the place owned by the Restored Church of LDS, which the LDS church is still trying to buy from them.Do not depend on sp, anon.67.42.123.208 (who finally admitted mormons believe the men will become gods, only after being challenged over and over), or ccccwhoever, who has absolutely no idea what her own church teaches (which is ver common). I say again, "God is not a God of Confusion".Amen} | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 83 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.27 |
Because I know judgment is coming from people commenting here, I would like to clear up now the reason I am publishing on Sunday. There is so much confusion about the proper day of worship. As I am retired and am not employed in men's workplaces, I try to please God by worshipping on Saturday and Sunday. I also worship on the days of the rest of the week, and God knows my heart, which is all that is important to me. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 319 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: The first job that men were given (by GOD to Adam) was to organize. We still do that. We build buildings, some of those are chapels. We've ogranized wards and stakes based on geography (an ex-Mormon would know that). The "coming to Salt Lake" thing is a JOKE. Buy yourself a sense of humor! Do you mean the REORGANIZED LDS? There is no "Restored" LDS. An ex-Mormon would know that. But then, you didn't even know what books of scripture we have. And just which land are you talking about, that we're "trying to buy"? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 86 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.206 |
Let those of you interested in my comments remember I left the Mormon Church in 1986. Of course some of my memories are lost, such as Restored and Reorganized. The land I am speaking of is (if I remember correctly) in Nauvoo, Illinois, which I believe is owned by the Reorganized Church. If you have read the history of the church you would know Joseph Smith started (or perhaps built) a temple there and had first chosen that as the promised land until mormons were run out. Brigham Young became Head Cheese after Joseph's death. The reorganized members were sons and blood relatives of js and thought a son should have been the next prophet. Since Brigham was chosen, the other members (now called Reorganized) started their own LDS Church and still follow Joseph's teachings , which include polygamy, while LDS follow changes made by Brigham and leaders after him, because they wanted all the benefits of Utah becoming a state. Joseph made his own money and wanted to have his own little country. That is pretty common knowledge but as I mentioned before, the mormon church tells it's members what it wants them to know at the time most expedient for the church. I haven't spent the last 18+ years following mormons. But I do know what my family, who are still in the church, tell me and they have been members far longer than you, many being born into the church. Reading has always been an important part of my life. I guess they don't tell elders everything that is going on, after all. ASK THEM! If they are honest they will answer truthfully. You may say 'I don't need to' but you are willing to pick apart everything I say and believe me, I am not just sitting around dreaming up nasty comments about Mormons. They are a misguided people. That is my concern because it involves their eternal salvation and many of my family are still members. Are all your family members Mormon? I have a feeling the answer is no. Have you asked them to Join? Probably at first, but the church has a way of separating people, and this I do know from personal experience. I thank God my family knows I love them and in return love me. There is no secrecy between us. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 341 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC wrote: "some of my memories are lost" -- yet some of the things that she says she has "forgotten" are the equivalent of a former Christian thinking that the Koran is in the New Testament! No, sorry, some stretches are too far to accept as "memory lapses." I find it strange that your supposed Mormon family hasn't mentioned that we've rebuilt the Nauvoo Temple, a project which started in 1999 and which was announced by the Prophet in General Conference. The RLDS church (called "Community of Christ" since about 2001) owns approximately 1/3 of the lower part of Nauvoo, the LDS church owns the other 2/3, the hillside above it, and the area all the way to the other side of the temple site. The RLDS never owned this land. The rest of Nauvoo is pretty much evenly divided between LDS and private ownership, with nearly all of the area on the plateau being privately held. What you are calling the "promised land" was in MISSOURI, hundreds of miles away from Nauvoo. This land has never been owned by the RLDS and the LDS church owns most of it. The RLDS never practiced polygamy. That is one of the differences between the two churches. They started their church 15 years after the main body of Saints left the Midwest for Utah, and although a whole, whopping 5% of the "Utah Church" Mormons were involved in polygamy, the RLDS never held this doctrine. Few of the RLDS were blood relatives of Joseph Smith, Jr. Their leaders were his direct descendants until about 20 years ago, when one generation had only daughters. Brigham died in 1877, the Manifesto which ended polygamy was in 1890 and stathood was in 1891. Yep, real direct connection there, GC. Uh . . .GC . . ? Until after the Civil War, ALL American banks "made their own money," and there were banks in Nauvoo. That is pretty common knowledge. No, they don't tell members of the higher priesthood everything, but they tell you. Yeah, right. "I am not just sitting around dreaming up nasty comments about Mormons." Yeah, like absurd stuff about UFOs wasn't intended to be "nasty"? No, not all of my family are LDS. My brother is Episcopalian. Far from being "separated" by my membership in the Church, we have become closer since I became Mormon. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 234 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.162 |
Evidence shows that many mormons moved to Mexico (with the Churches knowledge and blessings) to keep practicing polygamy. The Reoraganized Church of LDS practices polygamy to this day. You are a member of the Restored LDS church. Perhaps by now people have read the post discussing 'mormon prophets' teaching about the men living on the moon and the sun.\clipart Was that my imagination{smile}? Or will you say they were talking about the future? I don't think that will wash. | ||
| psalm5613 (psalm5613) New member Username: psalm5613 Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.39.68.108 |
Satan smiled at me, and then replied. “Part of my overall strategy to win souls throughout the history of the world is to attack Yahweh’s book, a book that my demons and I thoroughly hate. Even the sound of its name, the Bible, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I hate it just as I hate the Son of God. I hate his book with such great passion, that I have placed considerable effort and resources toward convincing the world to cast it down and to deny it in its entirety. In fact, I have assigned an entire legion of the demons for just that purpose. “We attack the book in many ways. I have created delicious lies and conspiracies about the various translations, which came about in the latter part of earth’s history, before the Rapture. These lies have brought into question the legitimacy of such scholarly translations as the Revised Standard Version and the New International Version. We achieved great success in convincing many of the church’s fundamentalists that the King James translation was not only the only acceptable translation, but that the rough old English itself was inspired by God. “We have indoctrinated thousands of those who follow after the Watchtower Society that their unscholarly and distorted New World Translation is truly of God. We have actively promoted other texts as being equal to or even greater in importance than Yahweh’s book. Books such as Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, and the Book of Mormon are two that come to mind. “Oh, and by the way, both of those books were co-authored by Nakal, the lead seraphim of my southern army. Nakal has played some pivotal roles in the establishment of heretical and apostate groups and cults. It was the demon general Nakal that appeared before Emanuel Swedenborg in 1745 claiming to be God, and telling Emanuel that all truth would come through him. It was Nakal that spoke to Herbert W. Armstrong telling him that the truth would come through him. It was Nakal that guided Charles Taze Russell in the establishment of the Watchtower organization. It was Nakal that appeared to Sun Myung Moon as Jesus on a mountain in Korea in 1935 telling him that God would finish establishing his kingdom through him. It was Nakal that convinced Mary Baker Eddy that she was the woman of Revelation, chapter twelve, who would unlock the mysteries of the dark book of the Bible. It was Nakal that delivered the Qur’an to Muhammad posing as the holy angel Gabriel. It was Nakal that posed as God the Father, and his associate, Pathah, who posed as Jesus. They both stood before the young Joseph Smith, telling him that all the churches were apostate and that the true church would be established through him. Nakal is quite an actor, is he not?” I shook my head in agreement. I made some special marginal notes about Nakal for future consideration. Truly, Satan and his minions are the masters of deception. “It is my policy that we attack, continually. We attack the scholarship of learned men and women who truly serve Yahweh, and we defend the scholarship of those who serve me. We attack by asking the question, ‘How can there be a Bible in existence if there are no original manuscripts available from which it can be translated?’ though there are thousands of later manuscripts, and overwhelming archaeological evidence, to support its authenticity. We defend the Book of Mormon, which has no archaeological evidence to support its stories, and was translated by young Joseph Smith using a seer stone placed in a hat that he used to cover his face. “We attack the Bible by drawing comparisons with other ancient texts such as the Code of Hammurabi and the Epic of Gilgamesh, by which we are able to convince many gullible people of the world that his book has simply recorded ancient myths and family stories that were common in many different cultures. For people to claim that his book is divine would then require these other texts to be considered divine as well. So they simply consider neither divine.” I was really struggling to keep up with the pace of the dialogue. The stack of scribbled papers began to grow substantially. Lucifer granted me little time to catch up. “One of my primary tactics is this: repeat, repeat and repeat some more. If the lie is spoken often enough, people will begin to believe and accept it. In my control of the airwaves, I have projected the idea that the Bible, the oft-touted ‘Word of God’ by Christians throughout the centuries, is not his word at all. I tell them that it is foolishness and mythology. I tell them to throw it down.” “Millions of ignorant people have done just that,” I said. Lucifer laughed. “It continues to amaze me just how easy it is to manipulate so many people. Yet, some are more difficult, requiring different approaches. Some of those more difficult cases cling to memories: Grandmother loved the Bible, quoting from it often; Papa read them stories of great courage and strength as they drifted off to sleep—stories of little boys and giants…of men bringing down the pillars of the palace; stories of a baby in a basket…and a baby in a manger. These people really want to throw the book out the window and into the trashcan, but they can’t; at least not yet. They don’t believe it; ridiculous notions they say, but it is a struggle for them to follow my way while they cling to their sentimental memories. They are frustrated, and even ashamed of their struggle. No one in his or her office at work gives any credence to that nonsense. They see it as a weakness. Yet these difficult cases hold on. “Many times I know I won’t be able to pry their Bibles from their unsure fingers, so I change tactics and encourage them to hold on to them; to put them away in a safe place, along with pictures of their papa or grandmother. I tell them to put those Bibles high on a closet shelf or buried in a cedar chest. “‘Keep it if you must,’ I tell them, ‘but don’t read it. Read it if you must, but don’t reflect on it. Read the Bible and make sure to take note just how bloody it is, and how wrathful God is. Read it, but don’t pay too much attention to it. Read it, but remember that it is just a book riddled with errors written by fallible men. It couldn’t have come from God, unless Yahweh was error prone.’ And then of course, who would want to believe in or worship an error-prone God?” Lucifer chuckled at his own words. “For some of the more dedicated followers of his book, I whisper thoughts to them. I reveal to them apparent scholarly work which is nothing of the kind, to prove that some parts of the book are from Yahweh while other parts are just thoughts from men. I leave to them to determine which parts they believe are God’s and which parts are not—though I often make suggestions. “And for still others, especially many of the influential preachers during the Church Age, I convince them that his book must be reevaluated within the framework of the present day, tossing out those portions which are too difficult or troubling to deal with. I whisper to them that the best way to handle difficult passages or subjects is to allegorize them, to not take them literally. If something is too hard, take it away, I tell them. Take away the reality of sin. Take away the reality of hell. Take away the reality of the depravity of the human race. Take away the need for a savior. Take away Jesus. That way they can turn any portion of Scripture into whatever they wish; they can interpret it as they ‘feel led’ by the spirit…or, more correctly, let me say, as they feel led by ‘a’ spirit. “Many of those preachers who stood in pulpits were never called by God, and in many cases, were not even his children. Quite a number were called up by me and were my children, posing as ministers of righteousness. It is so easy to confuse people. I put my man or woman behind that pulpit and I direct his or her thoughts and teaching. My thoughts become their thoughts. My ways become their ways. My doctrine appears as the doctrine of Yahweh.” He thrust both arms straight above him with clenched fists. His wings fluttered briefly as he cried out: “I am the god of this world!” From "Interview with Lucifer" by Rollin Miller www.interviewwithlucifer.com rollin@interviewwithlucifer.com | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 90 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
He's obviously doing such such a good job keeping us all occupied that lucifer can sit down (does he have a body) and have a chat - do we know where he went on holiday last year? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 349 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.125 |
SATAN'S LIE: Holy Bible: Genesis 3: 4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, thou shalt not surely die;For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be AS gods. MORMON's LIE: They will become gods. The Holy Bible teaches: After death, the judgement. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. I will never leave you. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Romans 3:23-28 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what Law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Chapter 4: What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, has found? For is Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what sayest the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Verse 14: For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect; Because the law worketh wrath; for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only is of the law, but to that also which of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all (the jews) Verse 23: Now, it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; }}Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Chapter 5, verse 1; Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with god through our Lord Jesus Christ. MORMON LIE: He commands us all to recieve certain ordinances: 1. We much be baptized and comfirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ. 2. We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 3. We much receive the temple endowment. 4. We must be married for time and eternity. Page 138 Gospel Principles; A person may be temporarily guided by the Holy Ghost. However, this guidance will not be coneinuous unless the person is baptized and recieves the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Today many nonmembers of the Church learn by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true. But that flash of testimony leaves them if they do not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not receive the continuing assurance that can come to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost. Every worthy elder of the Church, when authorized, may give the gift of the Holy Ghost to another person. To be worthy to have the help of the Holy Ghost, we must seek earnestly to obey the commandments of god. A mormon on these threads has said even though a prophet of his church speaks to the members in a conference, his words may be his own thoughts and not words meant to be taken as from a prophet. Brigham Young, (mormon prophet) said,"If a prophet has said it, it is from God." Gospel Principles, page 180: In this century, a prophet of God has said, "Work is to be reenthroned as the ruling principle of the lives of our church membership: (Heber J. Grant, in Conference Report, Oct. 1936) Page 204 The discussion is honesty. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. How many times was the question asked of mormons on these threads, "Do you believe you can become a God, or God?" By mormons own book on gospel principles, they have not shown honesty. In fact, one mormon even denied that mormon belief on these threads until asked over and over again. If Mormons truly believe we have freedom of choice, why do they believe the honest and truthway of telling others about their church, is to tell them only parts of their beliefs. I do not think anyone could disagree that what people believe about God's identity and purpose should be the very first thing taught to anyone wanting to know about God, his teachings, and his church. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 350 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.125 |
In fact, it was two mormons on these threads that denied they could become God. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.9 |
That belief, of spiritual progression to godhead, is secret and elusive in the mormon church because the leaders are cunning enough to know that Christians will reject outright that as blasphemy from the get go. It's better to suck you in slowly. Turn the heat up on the stove slowly degree by degree 'til suddenly one believes what they believe. When a Christian exposes that mormon doctrine, they are accused of slander, misinterpreting or misunderstanding mormon and New Testament scripture. "Thou shalt not set any idols before Me." mormons, through excessive self love, set themselves up as gods (self worship) before the one true God. Maximize themselves. Minimize God. Blasphemy! Only because they call themselves Christian. Blasphemy! | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
FRANKLIN & GC: BE ASHAMED, BE VERY ASHAMED! YOU BOTH KNOW FULL WELL (LOOK AT THE "EVIDENCE" SUPPLIED BY GC THAT IS AVAILABLE TO ANYONE) THAT YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING WHAT LDS BELIEVE, THEREFORE YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIBILITY, NOR DOES WHAT YOU SAY. YOU ARE FOOLS TO YOURSELVES, IF YOU HAVE ONE GOOD ARGUEMENT AGAINST THE CHURCH THEN USE IT, AND KEEP HAMMERING AWAY AT IT WITH ALL THE EVIDENCE YOU HAVE UNTIL NO MORMON CAN DENY WHAT YOU SAY TO BE CORRECT. BY WATERING DOWN ANY JUST CLAIM YOU HAVE WITH FLUFFY RUBBISHY ACCUSATIONS JUST MEANS WHATEVER YOU REALLY HAVE TO SAY IS LOST! YOUR ARGUEMENTS ARE INEFFECTUAL AND BECOME CHILDISH RETORTS. YOU BLIND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE SUBJECTS YOU BRING UP MAKE YOU LOOK REDICULOUS TO ANYONE THAT READS WHAT YOU SAY (LDS OR NOT) - YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELVES IN YOU EARGERNESS TO EXPOSE WHAT HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR NEARLY TWO HUNDRED YEARS. CHECK YOUR FACTS - THEN YOU MAY HAVE SOME SUCCESS! FRANKLIN: FROM YOUR POSTINGS YOU ARE THE LAST PERSON I WOULD BOTHER ASKING ABOUT AHWT A CHRISTIAN IS - COS IF I TOOK YOU AS AN EXAMPLE, IT WOULD BE LIKE THE CHILD POKING A STICK AT A CAGED TIGER THEN RUNNING AWAY! - IS HE REALLY BRAVE, OR JUST LIKES TO IMAGINE HE IS? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 359 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.94 |
What do you know of courage. You are sitting behind your computer spewing nonsense daily, while we are doing what God has asked us to do. Isn't there some geneology you need to do. We did not create this board. If you want to complain, post your complaints with them. We will continue to expose mormonism for what it is. When you start telling people the 'first principle', that you can become a god by becoming a member of your church, then we can stop, because people will understand what they are exposing themselves to. For 200 years, the church has refused to do that and are backtracking as fast as they can by saying it has been there all along. If people want to follow Satan, that is their choice. You and your church hides these things. Otherwise, there wouldn't be pages and pages and pages of denial by mormons on these threads. You expose yourself by your denials. You do not understand the power of Satan. Scriptures say he will lie and tell people they can become gods, AND THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS THERE IS ONE GOD. There are goods books in the library about the trinity. Go get one and stop swallowing all the crap the mormon church is feeding you. Stop believing you will lose some of your blessings by reading books they do not approve of. If you don't, then God help you, and more importantly, your children, who are not accountable; but who will trust their parents to teach them the truth. At least read the scriptures where it speaks about the punishment for harming children. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 133 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC Spurious nonsense | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 384 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.9 |
jd, you love yourself so much that you turn away from the one and only true God and think you or any other mormon can become equal to God. Then you think you are a brother of the Savior, Jesus Christ. Then you want to deny it, create subterfuge to sweep this blasphemous false doctrine under the rug with smoke and mirrors. Get real! You are man. Not a god. God was not a man. And you can not become a god! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 370 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.98 |
I've never heard of a fluffy rubbishy accusations before. And the guy considers himself a caged lion who has children poking at him with sticks. I mean, this should definitely be on the funny and humorous thread. The guy is so freaked out he uses another word, fu__ something or the other I wouldn't repeat, let alone say, if I claimed to be christian as he does. He's very convincing, isn't he? And I really love his response on March 9, 4:23 Quote from Joesdad; If you have one good argument against the church then use and keep hammering away at it with all the evidence you have until no mormon can deny what you claim to be correct. Incredibly assinine, wouldn't you agree. Next he says "By watering down any just claim means whatever you really have to say is lost". He keeps admitting we have just claims, and doesn't even realize he is doing it. I guess what he is really trying to explain is that we shouldn't be watering down our just claims. That to me sounds like there are things even worse that we haven't exposed. What a total bumbling idiot. A perfect example of a good, honest, credible mormon. NOT!!!! Not even a person who can respond with a minute semblance of intelligence. Does anyone understand what he is raving about. I told him he needs to get some rest, but would he take my advice, noooo! His pride is in the way. (I shouldn't be teasing. It is just too tempting sometimes after reading such gibberish). How can we help you, dear poor Joesdad? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 371 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.98 |
I've got your help, Joesdad. All you have to do is say, "God, please help me in my time of need." He's just waiting. And we will certainly remember you in our prayers. I promise! | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.174.186.236 |
"Think about what mormonism actually teaches. I mean, seriously!" Fri Feb-25-05 09:03 AM by Matt Slick "- The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, History of the Church, 4:461. - If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670. - There are many gods, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163. - There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443. - God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333. - After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354. God the Father had a Father, Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105. - God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428. - God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22. - God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3. - God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, Mormon Doctrine p. 516. - We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218. - Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163. - Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856. - There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188. - The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, by Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179 I mean, come on. Look at it!" | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 372 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.60.14 |
I did a scan over the responses on this whole thread. We started with someone being indignant about grammer and someone making claims about mormons worshipping satan. Then we get someone who is probably mormon; Mormons do not believe a man can become a god. Later in the same post he/she said; For a man to become god, he has to be transfigured and advanced yet more if worthy (whatever that means), a transfigured man would be mortal and this would happen to you when resurected or at the second coming, (whichever comes first.) Anon 65 says yes, we can become gods, it just takes a long time. Then we get ccccarah who says: let me straighten you out about the whole gods thing, Yes, we can become gods............at the end of her post she says---we really aren't just a bunch of weirdos. Then Solopilot comes on and says; it makes more sense to think (god) he was once a man as the bible seems to indicate he was. Now we are down to poor Joesdad who has really flipped his cookie. And you can see his responses above. My opinion is the mormon church needs help. Their leaders have said, 'If Joseph Smith falls, the church falls.' If you want a perfect example of who and what js was, you can go to carm.org.. So there is no confusion or accusations against me, (not that they will stop or that I care) this site has a lot of evidence that no one will be able to argue with. (LDS church evidence). | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 135 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
There are some things that I have noticed in the short while I have been posting to these threads. 1) What I assume was meant to be a forum for the serious discussion and debate of groups or “cults”, and for those who have had experiences of those groups, has become a bit of a free for all, with anyone being able to accuse any group of being a cult, with no reference whatsoever to FACTNETS own “definition” of a cult. These threads are often started with spurious comments, and descend very quickly into abusive slanging matches. I am surprised that, as the sites founders indicate it is concerned at the level of different types of abuse that takes place within such groups, those who claim to have suffered cause suffering to others by their often ill thought out comments, and accusations with no basis or structure. 2) On these particular threads (LDS – Mormon ones) that there are several voices that are heard often, some very frequently. Those heard most frequently speaking against the LDS church have very similar ways of communicating, viz. They will 1) Make offensive attacks either directly at others or at the church; 2) Make unsubstantiated claims against the church or members of it; 3) Misquote what they consider to be authoritative texts, and use documents never accepted by the church as defining it’s beliefs; 4) Knowingly make statements about the church’s beliefs that either do not correctly represent the actual beliefs of members, or are total falsehoods made knowing that they are falsehoods (lies basically), 5) Assume that as they are posting on a thread that they consider being their chance to abuse the church and it’s members, and pat each other on the back for doing so, that when any accusation they make is properly and substantially refuted or replied to, they can simply ignore that fact and continue to repeat their accusations; 6) When they are asked direct questions regarding knowledge that they claim to have, they do not answer or become abusive. 3) Franklin, has a bit of a supporting role for the great I am (self appointed), and defender of Chritianity (all sects of it that agree with anything she might say irrespective of whether they actually believe in the same thing), he pops in – fires questions or abuse, then runs away – any direct questions directed at him are ignored, probably as he has no idea of either what he is supposed to believe according to whatever belief system he subscribes to, or he simply has no idea what he is talking about – cheap shots are his speciality. 4) Godchild, the great I am referred to above, is a real character. She has many sides to her. The sweet innocent victim of the evil Mormon Sect, to the abusive Grizzly Bear who bears her teeth and swipes her well sharpened claws at any that might suggest she doesn’t know what the heck she is talking about. Her story is interesting, having claimed to have been a member of the church for anywhere up to 26 years, she shows amazing lack of knowledge of what the church believes in or teaches. Reading her story leads one to the conclusion that either 1) she has a learning disorder that does not allow her to understand plain and simple things said to her, and distorts them in her mind so they are stored in an unrecognisable form; 2) If she was ever associated with the church, insofar as being a member, it was for a very short time and she is dishonestly representing herself as an experienced member of the church; 3) she suffers from a selective sleeping disorder that meant she was wide awake during her time in the church except for when attending church meetings, when she slept so soundly that she was unaware of where she was or what was being said to her ( this is in my opinion believable considering some of the sacrament talks I have listened to); 4) She was unhappy as a member of the church, we don’t really know why but it is possible she simply found it too restrictive for her, and rather than simply leaving and getting on with her life, she thought she would leave and attempt to “show it up”, or it’s leaders at least, as she left. She must have known the reaction that this would create, but proceeded anyway. When the church asked her not to do this, she ignored it and now expresses indignation at the churches responses (that was pretty dumb!). Hence my reference to her acting as a woman scorned; or maybe 5) She is just someone who claims Christian virtues, shows few of the and is a compulsive liar. She has convinced herself that she has the right to lie, and get away with it. 5) I do not think it correct that I refer to GC as being a liar without substantiating what I say. Her claim to membership of the church raises just about all of the concerns I have on this point. I have asked a few members of the church (not telling them why I ask) if they see a difference to someone being excommunicated from the church as GC first claimed she was, and someone leaving the church of their own accord. Each said that there is a big difference, however GC having declared to all the world that she had taken both paths, when asked directly to explain the difference (as anyone involved in the church should be able to do without question) she whines and tells me to mind my own business!. I am convinced the reason for this reaction is that she simply does not know – she has lied at some point, and is unable to back track – to cover her “cock-up” she simply tries to hide it under lots of abuse and repeated accusations. Likewise, anyone involved with the church would know we do not believe God and Mary had actual physical sex – yet GC claims she was taught this – this is obviously a lie. Her claims about our becoming God, is all taken from an anti-LDS distortion of the truth – not her experience in the church – like much of what she says. Even when she does ATTEMPT so substantiate what she says with quotes, they are so out of order and confused, with no comment from her as to what she feels they say to support her claims, they become no more than a breach of copyright. GC is manipulating those who read these threads by claiming to have been a member of the church, as those wanting to believe the falsehoods they have previously heard about the church, will feel further justified if these lies are backed up by an “ex-Mormon”. I know that this is how Satan works, but is also one of the methods of indoctrination used by the sects this site was created to expose. If you believe her, you are simply falling into her trap, when you seek to deceive what a wicked web you weave – that is GC to a T. 6) There are many web sites that exist simply because the creators of them left or were removed from the church in circumstances that they caused, but choose to accuse the church rather than accept responsibility for their own actions. They collectively are as much threat to the church as a gnat biting an elephants bum. Just thought I’d mention it | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 138 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Hey GC - sorry, but you are jsut proving that your abilityto understand the written word is way off, either that or you just can't resist twisting whtever you read to justify your lies and mistakes - oooh, lots of name calling - so Mormons are wrong cos GC calls them childish names, that was easy why didn't she say so before? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 386 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.72 |
"Franklin, has a bit of a supporting role for the great I am (self appointed), and defender of Chritianity (all sects of it that agree with anything she might say irrespective of whether they actually believe in the same thing), he pops in – fires questions or abuse, then runs away – any direct questions directed at him are ignored, probably as he has no idea of either what he is supposed to believe according to whatever belief system he subscribes to, or he simply has no idea what he is talking about – cheap shots are his speciality." What you said about me above is a good description of YOUR responses, not mine. Only question I remember you asking me was about satan. My answer to you is to read The Holy Bible. Nowhere in there does it say that satan is Christ's brother. I know exactly what I believe. And I also know what I do not believe. I know I am a man created by the one and only God in the universe And I know that no matter how much I progress spiritually I will never reach the glory that is God. That is why I need Jesus Christ to be my saviour. Your whole above post is a cheap shot directed at me and GC. You can dish it out, but can you take it? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.72 |
Joesdad: Answer "YES" or "NO" only! 1. Do you believe The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible? History of the Church, 4:461. 2. Do you believe if it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Mormon Doctrine, p. 670. 3. Do you believe there are many gods? Mormon Doctrine, p. 163. 4. Do you believe there is a mother god? Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443. 5. Do you believe God used to be a man on another planet? Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333. 6. Do you believe after you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god? Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354. 7. Do you believe God the Father had a Father? Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105. 8. Do you believe God resides near a star called Kolob? Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428. 9. Do you believe God the Father has a body of flesh and bones? Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22. 10. Do you believe God is in the form of a man? Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3. 11. Do you believe God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children? Mormon Doctrine p. 516. 12. Do you believe we were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth? Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218. 13. Do you believe Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both? Mormon Doctrine, p. 163. 14. Do you believe Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions)? Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856. 15. Do you believe there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God? Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188. 16. Do you believe the Holy Ghost is a male personage? A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, by Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179. Now let's see who runs away now! | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 148 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
Franklin: Why YES or No only? What are you afraid of if full answers are given? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 390 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.72 |
Answer those 16 questions without dodging, weaving, conniving, smoke, mirrors and subterfuge! What are YOU afraid of? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 149 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
Franklin: youre response "to read the Bible" does not answer the question, where DID he come from, and why could God not restrain him, if he could why didn't He, how does this fit in with YOUR understanding of how we got here and why we are here. No, what I wrote was my opinion, no cheap shot. I suggest you be careful aligning yourself with GC as she is a danger not only to herself but to anyone taking notice of what she posts. YES/NO answers: 1)Yes 2)This is based on a misunderstanding of the churches position and cannot be answered yes or no due to this. 3)Yes (small g is significant) 4)Certainly yes 5)Yes 6)Yes (small g again) 7)Yes 8)Yes 9)Yes 10)Yes 11)Yes 12)Yes 13)Yes 14)Yes (but don't agree with your exceptions) 15)Yes 16)Yes Wow, what a surprise, and I didn't even look up your references! I answered them all on my little own. As you already knew what my answers would be, may I ask the REAL prupose of your questions - as they had nothing at all to do with finding out what I believe, and your insistance on YES /No answers was for what? - to take my replies out of context (real not just of your over simplified questions) and manipulate the responses afterwards as you will no doubt do. Come on, be a real tuff one, give me some good reasons why the historical context of the BoM is not correct! It has become easy for you and your like to repeat so called anti LDS stuff (I bet not one of your questions was thought up by you - just copied from somewhere else!)without having the guts to check it out. Prove that the BoM does NOT tell us of the people that lived in the Americas during that time - PROOF - and check it out before copying what someone else has copied. RUN FRANKLIN RUN | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 390 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.87 |
Did you read Joesdad's cry to Solopilot? "Please come back, I need you." That sounded like a plea from someone who does not have enough confidence in his belief system to share it, but needs another person to help ward off christians who warn others of their blasphemy. I am so thankful that I only need Christ, the WORD of God and the Holy Spirit in me. Jesus wants us to have the same confidence that he did, even when he knew he was going to suffer the most horrific death imaginable; not only to be nailed to a cross but to suffer all our diseases, all our mistakes, all our sins in his own perfect self. When we hear someone take the Lord's name in vain, it is offensive to us. I cannot even begin to imagine how offensive it was for Christ to bear that and every other offense committed by man. Even mormons, who believe Joseph Smith sits on the right hand of God, dare not pray in his name, but in Jesus'shich they do. (We say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.) If they want to worship men, God has given them the 'free will' to do so. They can even teach their children to follow a man instead of Christ. That is their 'free will'. It is not for us to convert, but to share the 'Good news'. So I will share it: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him; and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was Life: and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it. There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. He came for a witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world did not know him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name. Who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we behold His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the father, full of grace and truth. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:1-14 And by common confession great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, beheld by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:18 Now it is up to mormons to make their choice, trust in man or Faith in Christ, who is God, according to His Word.The prophets of old did not say, "Follow me". They said "FOLLOW HIM". They did not say "have faith in me", they said "Have faith in HIM". In response to Franklin's very good questions, I believe he was trying to make simple a task that for Joesdad is too difficult. I, as a christian, am so truly thankful to have God's Word to lead me and comfort me. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 391 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.72 |
satan was one of the original angels and was in charge of heavenly music. And because of his pride, he fell. God did not restrain him because He gives us all free will, to love or rebel against him. Because compelled worship is not love, God wants our love and worship of Him to be out of our free will, not compelled. In other words, sincere. The only danger gc is, is to the outright deception to the world that mormonism is a Christian sect. Mormons have as much in common with Christians as Buddhists do. And your answers, which I thank you for, prove that. Why doesn't the mormon church be upfront about their beliefs instead of hiding them behind a false front of being another Christian sect? What does mormonism, with these beliefs, have in common with Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant sects of the Christian Church? Do I have proof that Atlantis never existed? No. And js does not have PROOF that his stories are true. I do believe in the provable. Jesus Christ. The New and the Old Testament. I can connect the dots. You can not with the mormon myths. Your problem is is that you allow man to interpret the scripture of the Holy Bible to you instead of the Holy Spirit. That is a tragic error. Now that you have revealed the pagan beliefs of mormonism you'll probably be excommunicated. RUN JOESDAD RUN! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 391 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.194 |
You are so right, Franklin, and that is the only reason I have spent so much time on these threads. Our foundation can never fall, theirs has been crumbling from the time joe smith decided to try and take things into his own human hands. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 150 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
Franklin: I love you so much, I have not laughed so much for an hour or two!!!! So please, show me where in the Bible it says satan was the angel of music - now, I want a word for word one on this, is must say "Satan was the angel of music" Errrr we believe Jesus is the Christ,which I understand is something you believe and buddhists don't -- Hmmm another of your brilliant evidences ehh? Please, tell me opne thing in the BoM that is similar to the myth of Atalantis - can't you? - no, because you've never even read any of it have you? - what a sad and naive sidestep. As to who interprets the Bible - I'll see your answer to the scripture on satan the music maker first. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA - too late buddy, I WAS exed in 1997, the readmitted to the church in 1999 - lame, lame lame are your words. GC: Your words are laughable - once Franklin is shown to be a wet blanket, how will affect your claims my dear? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 152 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: Please, another generalised poke at the church with no substance - so the church has been crumbling since joe smith what a bummer, I bet most organisation shrinking from a handful to touching 12 million would be looking at bankruptcy by now - your wealth of knowledge will no doubt show us all how this increase also represents crumbling, in the inimitable way I am sure you look at a clear summer sky and see clouds in your way. You are so sad as now to misquote me again too - I never said I needed SP at all, go back and read what I said - what a loose liar you have become. Franklin: By the way I did a few seconds of research ( a few more thanyou no doubt) and found only ONE web page discussing your idea of Satan being the angel of music, and they said he wasn't - so which branch of christianity do you belong to? - and you call me pagan!!!! - and GC, do you have the same belief as you fellow christain about satan's musical angels?? - I doubt it. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 470 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Joe: I notice that he didn't provide that verse. It always amuses me the way "Bible-ONLY" Christians keep coming up with doctrines which can't be found anywhere in the Bible. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Solo & Joe , please show me in the bible where it says satan & Christ are spiritual Brothers. The Bible & Book Of Mormon , Both say SATAN OR LUCIFER was a fallen angel. The Bible says That Christ Created every thing. Even the angels. Nehemiah 9:6 Colossians 1:16-17 It also says that Christ was Made Better than the angels, they had a lower status , because he made them. Hebrews 1:4-5 now in your bible vs that shows me they are spiritual brothers. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Actually Satan was an arcangel because he possessed other angels under his command before he was cast to the earth. Rev 12:7-9 After the fall satan was no longer an arcangel but the great deceiver , prince of demons who now masqurades as an angel of light. Satan can project himself as being very beautiful. But Christ was his creator. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Jude 1:9 SATAN was probably equal too, or a greater angel than Michael the archangel, being that michael would not bring an accusation against him, but instead let the Lord confront him, or rebuked him. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 475 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
Steel: Jesus created the world under the direction of His Father. Jesus came here to do the work of His Father. His Father is OUR Father (Jesus said so), making Jesus our brother -- being the Only Begotten makes him our ELDER brother. Lucifer also was made by our Father, making him our brother also -- and the brother of Jesus. What's so hard to handle about this concept? Doesn't your EARTHLY family have a black sheep? Here's something even more mind-expanding. God or Jesus could, at their whim, either destroy Satan or remove all of his power and influence. They don't. If he were a mere "fallen angel," not actually a son of God, why would they not do that? Does it serve God's purposes that evil exist in the world, does God not care, or is Lucifer a person of personal importance to God, thus not to be destroyed or harmed? That Michael didn't bring the accusation could mean what you suggest, or just as likely mean that Michael deferred to Jesus, as you would let a big brother take care of a problem and stay out of the way. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.69.138.139 |
1. Again it says that Jesus created all in the heavens and earth. This gets back to defining who Jesus was. Jesus is not my big brother, Jesus is My God! Isiah: 43:10, 43:11,44:6,44:8. Jesus was fully God & Man on this earth. Father,Son & Holy spirit,are one God. 1 John 5:7 , st.John 1:1, Romans 3:30, 1 tim 2:5, mark 12:32, 2 John vs.9 Also: Isiah 45:22, Psalms 90:12, Deut 6:4 . Read Bom 2 Nephi 2:17-19 AS IT IS WRITTEN. An ANGEL of GOD had fallen from Heaven. Christ May be your spiritual brother & savior from the grave, but to me he is My GOD & MY Savior for all Eternity. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Read Heb: 2:9-18 For surly it is not with the angels that Christ has a concern, but his concern was with the decendant of abraham. Angels were created with an order. here is a good site http://www.ldolphin.org/gangels | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 494 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Steel: What do you think that Jesus meant by "my Father, and your Father, my God and your God"? What does "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" mean? BTW, which version of the Bible do you use? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 769 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.6 |
In the beginning: Genesis 1:1 starts with the moment of creation and moves forward to the creation of humanity. John 1:1 starts with creation and contemplates eternity past. The fact that the word was with God suggests a face-to-face relationship. In the ancient world, it was important that persons of equal station be on the same level, or face-to-face, when sitting across from one another. Thus the word with indicates a personal relationship, but also implies equal status. The Word, Jesus Christ Himself, is an active Person in communication with the Father (see 1 John 1:2). Moreover, The word was God. The word order in Greek shows that the Word was "God," not "a god." This is a straightforward declaration of Christ's deity, since John uses Word to refer to Jesus. The Word was of the very quality of God, while still retaining His personal distinction from the Father. (The Bible says, "No man has seen the Father, and lived". This also proves Jesus is God, as he sat face-to-face with him." gc) 1:2 Neither the Person of Christ, nor His Sonship, came into being at a point in time. Rather, the Father and the Son have always been in loving fellowship with one another. 1:3All things were made through Him: God the Father created the world (Gen. 1:1) through God the Son (Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2). All creation was made through Him. Thus He is the Creator God. 1:4 Note that life is not said to have been created; life existed in Christ (5:26, 6:57, 10:10, 11:25; 14:6; 17:3; 20:31) Humans are dependant on God for life. The Son has life in Himself from all eternity. The life, Jesus Christ, is also the light of men. Jesus is LIGHT and LIFE; those who accept HIm are "sons of light" (12:35, 36l). As the creation of light was the beginning of the original creation (Gen 1:3), so when believers receive the light, they become part of the new creation (2 Cor: 4:3-6). NKJV If anyone has used this Bible, they will see the words are not changed from the old kjv, it has only added an outstanding concordance, defining greek and hebrew words for a clear, concise, understanding. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 770 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.6 |
A question for mormons. Do you believe when the Holy Bible says 'man' or 'men', it means 'males' or 'males and females'? | ||
| gentile (gentile) New member Username: gentile Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 132.160.66.2 |
Joe Smith saw an angel of light (he says) who told him all the churches were an ABOMINATION to the Lord and he was to start his own. They started "lying" and "killing" right from the beginning. And they say they are"killing for the Lord" to bring in his kingdom. I saw their organized criminal activities in Phoenix in the middle 80's (you will know them by their fruit) and when I said to a mormon I knew "You know I saw it up close and I just can't believe it!" And he said (word for word) "What I can't believe is, you saw it up close, and still don't believe it". I actually think he was too afraid to say much more. I talked with a mormon girl from New Zealand once and asked her " Do you know about the organized crime part of the church". She said "yes, but that's something we don't talk about" and then she walked away. In the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter shall be established. Maybe all everyone will need is just a couple of witnesses to see what mormonism really is. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Gentile , I think you need to elaborate more, give us examples, articles, proof,what was their organized criminal activity in PHOENIX. When you make a statement like that on this net ,you will discredited , i"m not saying you are wrong, just would like to read about this or see someting,so as it is not hearsay. Thanks , In Christ STEEL | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Advanced Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 506 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.57 |
Steel: You say that you were a member of the Church for many years. Do you know of any "organized crime," "killing right from the beginning," "killing for the Lord," etc? If a "girl from New Zealand" knows all about it and tells someone she talks to ONCE, you should know all about it, right? Gentile is just another member of the "Liars for Christ" movement. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 783 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.153 |
Who were the Danites? If someone is willing to discuss this group, it will easily answer solopilot's question. No mormon wants to answer the question of whether they believe we are angels, and whether they believe Jesus is an angel. 'Lucifer was our brother'. Lucifer, a son O Lucifer-son of the morning. How does mormonism claim this to mean Jesus is a brother to Lucifer? In heaven, satan was called a dragon. Are we dragons and angels? Revelations 12:7-17. The name Lucifer in Hebrews literally means 'day star' or the planet Venus. The POETIC language of this verse describes the aspirations of this brightest star to climb to the zenith of the heavens and it's extinction before the rising sun. This is an apt summary of the failed goal of the king of babylon. "How the oppressor has ceased, the golden city ceased! The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked!" The Lord was breaking their instruments of oppression. (The staff and the sceptor were symbols of authority and power in the ancient middle east.) In the Holy Bible, Lucifer (satan, devil, dragon) was called many things. None of which that he was a brother of Jesus, or a son of God. The Holy Bible teaches we become sons of God by ADOPTION, Jesus being the only 'begotten' son. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.34.169 |
I used to be a JW and am no longer affiliated but i don't believe that they worship Satan- what is the basis of the title of this thread in reference to JWs? and also, i have never been a mormon but had extensive discussions with one years ago and he was well versed in the Bible- of course I know that the book of Mormon takes precedence in the mormon world but I would hardly call them satan worshippers- again , i ask the basis for the title? to get posters attention? | ||
| gentile (gentile) New member Username: gentile Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 132.160.66.16 |
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