| Author | Message | ||
     Nekro85 |
Hi my name is Manny I live in San Diego California. I was born an raised to be "Jehova's Witness" and I believe that being forced to: comment during the meetings by parents(which is encouraged by Brothers incharge of our congregation), or to no have any association with anyone in school or elsewhere(when young, we are told that they and very dangerous to be with), Basically what im trying to say is that when we are Kids we dont have a mind of our own. So now that im 18, I noticed that in our reunions in the Kingdom Hall, and especially during the 3 anually district asemblys, the main idea usually focuses on talking about "How to better the lives of Children, and help them become sucessfull JW's". I feel that the brainwashing of innocent children in this way is a form of child abuse. I, luckily am a smart enough person to be able to notice that this is A CULT completely filled with retards, and I personnally enjoy attending asemblys, why? Because while others enjoy taking notes on the lies being said by the person giving a speech, I enjoy to take notes on everyway the speaker contractics himself in his speech aswell as this written in the "REAL" Bible. Now, enough bashing on the poor little Brainwashed CHILD ABUSING Bastards (did I mention that i got baptised at the age of 10, unwillingly). I listen to heavy metal (please dont get me started on this issue), I play Guitar, my hair is spiked not exagrrated and have long sideburns. The Congragation administrators spoke with my mother about me and she said that im now 18 yrs and she cant do nothing about it and believe me she has tried, so they approach me personally. I didnt disrespect them in anyway i just listened, they said i couldnt go door-to-door with them or give a speech in the meetings until , I tame my hair shave my sideburns and so on. This ofcoarse i didnt do, but i didnt get mad. What got me mad is when I go out one night have a couple beers with my girlfriend passed out and got home in the morning, I did not have sex. Well, I got home my parents we in the living with two Brothers from the Hall, my exact words said out loud were "You gotta be fucking kidding me!!!!", well I got kicked out of my house, expelled from the Church, and above all it was announced to everyone in the Congregation. I was furious, but mostly hurt because instead of my family or the church helping me with my supposably DRUG ADDICTION that i didnt have but made everyone think I did, they ignored me and I was not allowed to associate with them. FUCK THEM I DONT NEED FAMILY LIKE THAT AND LESS ANY CULT LIKE THAT!!!!!!!! I lived with my girlfriend, and I have been craving revenge ever since. I have been calling the Brothers begging for a chance to go and appoligize to my congragation on stage and explain why i want to come back, (hehehehehe------<evil laugh) they said they would think about it with the other brothers. I want to ask you for advice on what i want to do, I want to talk about what I think about Being JW and talk about the abuse i went through aswell as being forced to be baptised and that i know for a fact that i not the only one that it has been done to, but that im the only one with the guts to say it. I want to talk about why this religion is a "CULT" , why it has contradicted it self many times and why it has been responsible for many deaths of innocent brainwashed children, all of this will be proven with facts not opinions. PLEASE RESPOND TO ME!!!!!!! THANKs MAnny | ||
| Yaakov |
]did I mention that i got baptised at the age of 10, unwillingly I am sure that you also unwillingly, were made to clean your room and eat your vegetables. So what? It is a parent’s right and responsibility to instruct their children in their religion. ]she {my mother} said that im now 18 yrs and she cant do nothing about it…my hair is spiked not exagrrated and have long sideburns…I go out one night have a couple beers with my girlfriend passed out and got home in the morning…I lived with my girlfriend…I want to ask you for advice on what i want to do Whatever your religion, you are now 18, an adult in our society. It is time for you to grow up and take responsibility for your own life. Get a job and move out of mommy’s house. Then you can wear your hair as you like, stay out as late as you like, and worship (or not) as you please. You can have sex with your girl and you may even have the opportunity to become a father. A few years after that, you may start to develop an understanding of your mother’s point of view. | ||
| Cathy |
Hi,Manny,Like me,you enjoy doing "nasty things"to the JW's.I was a dub for 20 years.I joined and got baptised on my own and as time went on I realized how controlling and restrictive it was.I was miserable and I was a basket case.I too liked Punk music and hard rock and all kinds of rock and hard core music and the wt was always trying to take away the things I loved.I felt restricted and I even had mini mental breakdowns over some of their policies on dfing,shunning,association,and friends.My life was miserable,yet I was in denial.Now that I'm away from all that crap I don't ever want to go back to that mind controlling CULT!!!!!Every time I see a dub downtown at my bus stop,I want to stuff all their abusive policies down their throats and up their ass.I have also been tempted to go up to the local Kinkdumb Hall and throw snowballs at all the dubs.I'd love to walk in on one of their precious meetings and let one big fart right in the middle of the meeting.And you know,I'm no spring chick,I am 53 years old and I'd fart on them in a heartbeat.If you need someone to share your feelings,I am here to support you.Cathy | ||
| Anonymous |
I am GOD and Jehovah's Witness is not a religion that you should be fallowing if you continue to fallow I will smite the. This is not a joke if you dare to challange me you will involk my wrath as it has bin writen it shall be done. With love allways God | ||
| Anonymous |
I am sorry my dad is senile and he is gong crazy. Well he can't really spell. He is going to kill all Jehovah's Witnesses because, well they are all pussies. Well i have to go now, i am needed for a enema, and a drug test. The Pot here is great. Love always, Jesus Christ. | ||
| Anonymous |
Chant Hare Krishna and be HAPPY! | ||
| Anonymous |
I have to respond to all of these messages that I have been reading. Im live in the UK, Im 27 yrs old male and have been a witness all of my life. Im sure that all your opinions about JWs have been affected by your personal experiences and it is difficult to shake them. I can only tell you about my personal experiences. I have some problems with my faith. I too think it is restrictive and it is possible to be miserable whilst serving Jehovah because you arent allowed to do whatever you feel like. I too hate the ministry, and get sick of other witnesses telling me what a joy and a privilege it is. However, myself & my brother and sister were given the opportunity to leave (with no family repercussions) at the age of 16. I suppose we had it easy as our parents were reasonable and realised that once we were adults we could make up our own minds. I can definately say that neither myself, my family or any of my friends have been brainwashed. You are allowed to make your own decisions. Yes, if you choose not to worship then you might be disfellowshipped. I think that most of my problems and I suspect yours have been caused by witnesses (imperfect humans) and not Jehovah. I have taken the attitude now that I dont care if I have privileges (I resigned from them about a year ago) and I will openly say that I intensely dislike the ministry (inc once from the platform in one eventful meeting) and I dont care if I am in goodstanding in the congregation. Frankly, if you like the ministry then you are weirdo amongst weirdos. You might be asking yourself why am I still going to meetings and the ministry. Im not doing this to impress anyone, I live on my own, I have no responsibilities to live up to. I dont particularly like the truth, but I dislike the world even more. Most of my friends who have turned it all in (inc a surprising number of pioneers & min servants) have all made serious messes of their lives and I dont want to go down the same path. I suppose what I am trying to say is that I understand why you feel the way you do, and I am sure if I was in your situation I would feel the same, but dont resent Jehovah for what his people have done. Once you accept that power (and elders do have power) goes hand in hand with corruption, then it gives a you a very different view on life in the congregation. A long time ago I decided that I was not going to be appointed and told the elders so. Now I have also resigned from my privileges (and dont want them back) I do have my freedom of speech. I got in trouble recently for saying that I thought we were in the wrong over this child abuse issue to an elder but I dont care. The society is imperfect and can also make mistakes. We laugh at the Catholic Church for thinking the Pope is infallible, but many witnesses also think the society is infallible. I can also relate many situations that have been dealt with in a very unkind way by elders who should know better. The only reassurance that I can give to you is that do not think that they will escape punishment for what they have done. I have seen many instances where their pride is followed by a spectacular fall. My sister left when she was 16, ten years later she came back, she wasnt brainwashed but did have some bad experiences in the congregation. Yes we are a sect, in the dictionary definition term, but we are a non profit making organisation unlike most brainwashing cults or sects. In the 27 years I have been a witness I have probably contributed about £150 (about $300) and have never been approached for money. It is in your heart, you still care, even if it is a feeling of bitterness, and you resent the elders for not letting you worship in the way you want. Just dont give up on Jehovah because of the behaviour of a few stupid men. It is like playing soccer & being sent off and saying you are giving up soccer. You still love the game, its just you have had a bad game. (its the referees fault.sometimes they get it wrong) If you really feel like you dont want anything to do with JWs then dont post messages like this as that is just keeping bad memories alive. However, as I think you still have feelings for Jehovah, move somewhere you feel you can make a fresh start. Feel free to reply to me or post messages telling me what you think. arniepye@hotmail.com A moderate Witness. | ||
| Anonymous |
Cathy so you studied & got baptised on your own but you were brainwashed. in that case I think the CIA could learn a lot from JW's brainwashing techniques. also what is a dub? | ||
| tommygun |
Like you Manny,I was born into being a JW. I was just old enough to remember the 1975 end of the world bullshit! My parents did not force me to be baptized but the presure was certainly there. Ya see my father is an elder and a very good person,But not unlike arniepye@hotmail BRAINWASHED! Brainwashed to the point that even to this day he is unwavering in his devotion. I on the otherhand was smart enough to get the fuck out. I have been away from the witnesses for over twenty years and the cult like effects are still keeping me from having a normal life. Lets see... I am a punk rocker with a mohawk full of dreadlocks,I also have tons of tattoos,some featuring everybodys fave symbol of unity,"swastikas". Now considering the added fact that I am black I think that sez quite a bit. Not unlike,arniepye,I defended this so called religion even after the swastikas and all that. Thats how drastic the brainwashing is. Only recently after suffering mentally for my entire life have been able to put the blame on the JW's. To all you assholes out there who say get over it,FUCK YOU! You didn't have to be raised every day of your life being told that everybody you love(freinds,reletives)was going to die horribly in some great world wide catastrophy simply because they think differently than you. You didn't have to sit quitely in the back of the class as all your classmates enjoyed celebrating every holiday,not to mention having to send back gifts that were sent to you for your birthday or any holiday. Damn! Imagine never ever having celebrated your own birthday! What about beleiving in fairytale shit like demonic forces or demonic possesion. I still get chills over what I went through with that one. All i can say is thanks to my dad. All those years ago when he made me take all of my records(blondie,judas preist,iron maiden,prince,funkadelic)t-shirts and comic books,all of which I bought with my hard earned paper route money,put them in a pile,drench them with lighter fluid and set it on fire he opened my eyes. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hello its arniepye again Dear Tommygun If you have not been a witness for over 20 years why are you still blaming them for yourself being a total screw up. Im guessing you are mid30's. At what age are you going to stop blaming other people for your problems? You are a punk rocker, ok, with a mohawk full of dreadlocks, hmmmm, isnt that a contradiction. I thought a mohawk was upright and dreadlocks were hanging down. Also, I bet your tattoos look great on black skin. What do your friends think of your swastikas? You also described your dad as a elder and a good person, and then slate him for making you burn your record collection (many records of which I own as well). Which is he, a cruel person or a good person? Many people criticise the bible for being contradictory. I sincerely hope you are not one of them. As for never being allowed to celebrate your birthday, well boo hoo hoo. If thats the worse thing that happened to you in your life you got off lightly. Many children (witness & non witness) suffer much worse abuse than that but dont bleat on about it like you do. How old are you? You sound like a petulant child. Do you think your life would be a lot more stable if you stopped being a witness. So you agree that I am an adult, not brainwashed but capable of making my own decisions. Where does that fit in with your rant? It would seem I slipped through the net of the brainwashing but still chose to follow the religion. TommyGun, 20 years???!!! And we are still having an effect on you. Are you sure that is JWs (imperfect humans) or is it Jehovah himself. Can I make a guess that you also use drugs? Is it possible that these are having more effect on your mental health than anything that happened with JW's. Can I also say that despite having been a witness for 27 years I have had no brainwashing or training in brainwashing. I would like to know where I can get some as it would make me a lot more enthusiastic about the ministry than I am right now. Arniepye (still a moderate witness) | ||
| tommygun |
Number one:A mohawk is marked only by the shaven sides of your head,dimbulb. Number two:I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the history of my country,you limey bastard,but lets just say my skin is light enough to take color. Oh wait I didn't mention I was from the states in my rant did I. Thats ok its just like a witness not to think to far past whats written on the page.Number three:Hey,he's my pops I guess I don't hate im'. Number four:Again your attention to detail is astounding! As I said,only recently have I been able to start blaming the witnesses. Before that my life seemed an endless spiral of self doubt and abusive behaviour. Now that is a different story. The brainwashing was so complete that I couldn't bring myself to(this is a very witness phrase)bring reproach on jehova's people. Only after allowing myself this freedom have been able to start enjoying my fucking life! I am so much happier without the burden of armegeddon and everlasting life buzzing around in my brain. I could care less what happens after you die. Life should be lived now,not lived waiting for something that is never going to happen. | ||
| Anonymous |
i think you guys really need to get over your selfish little revenge crusades and just live a good god fearing life | ||
| Anonymous |
An Open Letter To Jehovah's Witnesses You may not remember, but I know you very well. I met you a long time ago when you came to my house with your smiling faces, your neat clothes, and your soft voices, and a Bible tucked neatly under your arm. You told me many beautiful stories of a "paradise earth," and a "righteous new system" which would be established shortly. You beguiled me; I listened and I let you teach me your form of Christ-dignity. I loved you, I devoted most of my life to you, I was loyal and obedient, never realizing that one day I would come to disagree with everything you had to say. When I first met you and learned of the "paradise," little did I know that in order to get to that paradise, I would have to walk over the dead bodies of beloved family, cherished friends, and casual acquaintances, because they didn't want to be Jehovah's Witnesses. With your soft, sweet voices, and gentle manner, you convinced me that everything and everyone who did not agree with you was "evil." I came to believe that other churches were bad and of the devil, and so were their members, I became convinced that all the governments were wicked, including my own, and that I was not to support the country in which I lived. I believed you, I loved you, trusted you, and served you and never suspected that you were capable of deceiving me. I loved you so much that I raised my precious children as Jehovah's Witnesses. I taught them that you were trustworthy, and true followers of God and Jesus. I trained them to believe your every word. How could I have known that in the future you would steal my own flesh and blood from my arms and prevent them from seeing me because I would come to disagree with you? I never noticed the fangs of oppression and tyranny that lurked behind those gentle smiles. I never knew that I would be expected to hand over my mind, soul and spirit to you, and if I were to ever want them back, you would hold my children as hostages and no amount of begging and tears would release them from your firm grip because they had been raised to look at you as being God, rather than mere men. When I came to you, I was young and pretty and impressionable, looking for a relationship with God, my Creator. But through slick words and empty speeches you convinced me that I was not really a child of God, that my duty was to the organization... that THEY would tell me what to do and how to think. Through years of domination and manipulation I began to accept the meager food that was being offered to me, and became willing to accept it as the true "spiritual" food from the Master, while all the time feeling the gnawing at my body. Finally, I discovered that I had been robbed of my joy, my love, my compassion, and my mercy, and it was replaced with legalistic, doctrinal formula which provided me with fear, guilt, and anxiety to fill my hungry heart. When I said, "l want more than this," you slapped me with your soft little hand, which had now turned into an iron fist of oppression. Yes, you fooled me all along, your deception was because you had been fooled too, a long time ago, by others who had taken you captive to their dictatorial reign of terror. You convinced me that the words of men were the words of God because you really thought it was true. I believed you because you were gentle, soft spoken, and carried the Bible tucked under your arm. You told me that you had "freedom," and it was only later, when I tried to escape your brand of "freedom" that I discovered that the iron bars of the gate had been shut and I was at your mercy because, by this time, you had already gained control of my mind and my emotions. I cried and begged you to please let me go, and you said, with your firm, roaring voice, "not until I have stripped you naked," and you did! You stripped me of my dignity, my selfrespect, my honor, and my FAMILY. You told all my friends and family that I was demonic, evil, an apostate, a spiritual fornicator, and good for nothing but total destruction by your angry God whom you had tried to pass off as a God of "love." They believed you, and they still believe you, because their eyes are blinded by the promise of "paradise," and they cannot see the hell that surrounds them. The ever illusive paradise is held out to the gullible like a carrot in front of the nose of a rabbit, and causes them to sacrifice their family, friends, careers, education, hopes and dreams on the altar of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Now I'm older, now I'm wiser, but now it is too late... life is fast slipping away. Through my tears, I cry out for my beautiful daughter and grandchildren, but you grip them tighter and tighter and tell them that YOU will be their mother. And so you are, and so you are! I begged to recapture my honor and my dignity, but you laughed with your bright, shining teeth, and said, "No way, you're on your own." Somehow those soft, pretty words weren't soft and pretty anymore, but words of slander, abuse, hatred, and hostility... and you said them in such a way that others would think that you were righteous and I was evil. You lied about me, but no one will believe you LIED because they trust you... that's because you are soft spoken, gentle, and carry a Bible tucked neatly under your arm. Gaila Noble ARIZONA | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.199.156) |
Human & sin are birds of a feather .thats why Jesus took the cross .A sinnless man couldn't live amongst us.Just imagine how he saw us,but yet declared to the Father.Forgive them for they know not what they do.thats the hard truth. | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.29) |
Can a JW deny that they use most of these tactics? It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently. I. Behavior Control 1. Regulation of individual's physical reality a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects d. How much sleep the person is able to have e. Financial dependence f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations 2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals 3. Need to ask permission for major decisions 4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors 5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative). 6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails 7. Rigid rules and regulations 8. Need for obedience and dependency II. Information Control 1. Use of deception a. Deliberately holding back information b. Distorting information to make it acceptable c. Outright lying 2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio b. Critical information c. Former members d. Keep members so busy they don't have time to think 3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines a. Information is not freely accessible b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what 4. Spying on other members is encouraged a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership 5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc. b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources 6. Unethical use of confession a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution III. Thought Control 1. Need to internalize the group's doctrine as "Truth" a. Map = Reality b. Black and White thinking c. Good vs. evil d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside) 2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words". 3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged. 4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism. a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking b. Chanting c. Meditating d. Praying e. Speaking in "tongues" f. Singing or humming 5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate 6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful IV. Emotional Control 1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person's feelings. 2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's. 3. Excessive use of guilt a. Identity guilt 1. Who you are (not living up to your potential) 2. Your family 3. Your past 4. Your affiliations 5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions b. Social guilt c. Historical guilt 4. Excessive use of fear a. Fear of thinking independently b. Fear of the "outside" world c. Fear of enemies d. Fear of losing one's "salvation" e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group f. Fear of disapproval 5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows. 6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins". 7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader's authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group. a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc. c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family. d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group's perspective, people who leave are: "weak;" "undisciplined;" "unspiritual;" "worldly;" "brainwashed by family, counselors;" seduced by money, sex, rock and roll. A good comparison of what should be: http://www.cultclinic.org/qa3.html 1) Milieu Control (Control of communication - someone is in charge of what you hear and are exposed to in terms of information.) "There is to be no partnership, no fellowship, no portion, no sharing with unbelievers. In other words, no association with them if one is to associate with God" (Watchtower, 2/15/60, p. 112). 2) Mystical Manipulation (Personal manipulation by a person or organization that creates a mystique around themselves, making them appear to know everything, or somehow have a unique position with God.) "Showing respect for Jehovah's organization really resolves itself down to our attitude toward God's visible channel and the trust that we place in our proved, faithful brothers. If we have become thoroughly convinced that this is God's organization, that he is guiding and directing his people, then we shall not be unsettled by anything that happens" (Ibid, 5/1/57, p. 284). 3) Demand For Purity (This involves disowning anything that makes life complicated; seeking the pure truth to the abandonment of everything else.) "Newly interested ones, then, should take a firm stand and not postpone matters by asking to be baptized and accepted into the congregation, or to share in presenting information from the platform in their Kingdom Halls, while still in the grip of nicotine or other harmful addiction. As the new order now draws very near, it is assuredly in harmony with God's Word to take the position that those unwilling to abandon any such harmful addictive practices do not qualify for our baptizing them as approved members of Jehovah's Christian congregation" (Ibid, 6/1/73, p. 340). 4) Cult Confession (This is a way of purging a member after he does something wrong, or what they think is wrong; you have to come to the leaders, elders or whatever, and confess openly.) "If you personally are a ever a witness to serious wrongdoing on the part of a baptized member of the congregation or an unbaptized person regularly associated with it, loyalty to Jehovah and his son and love for your brothers should move you to bring the matter to the attention of the judicial committee. One who loves righteousness and is truly loyal to Jehovah God and Christ Jesus will courageously step forward and make known the sinful conduct and conscientiously testify the matter before the judicial committee when called on to do so" (Ibid, 9/1/81, p. 23). 5) Sacred Science (Their truth is the absolute truth. It is a science - a philosophy that works. No other philosophy works. Everything is absolute, sacred and above questioning.) "Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind what to believe.' This is independent thinking! Why is it so dangerous? Such thinking is evidence of pride. And the Bible says: `Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling.' (Prov. 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: `Where did we learn the Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of truth if it had not been for the guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization? No, we cannot," (Ibid, 1/15/83, p. 27). 6) Loading the Language (The use of thought-terminating cliches.) "Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibilities of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept the appointment of the `faithful and discreet slave' and be submissive to it" (Ibid, 10/1/67, p. 590). "No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the scriptural guidances we need outside the `faithful and discreet slave' organization" (Ibid, 2/15/81, p. 19). 7) Doctrine Over Person (The subordination of human experience to doctrine. The doctrine is all that matters - it is irrelevant what you personally experience. If it doesn't fit their doctrine, then it is wrong.) "The truths we are to publish are the ones provided through the discreet-slave organization, not some personal opinions contrary to what the slave has provided as timely food. We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave's provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord's visible organization and not be so foolish as to pit against Jehovah's reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings" (Ibid, 2/1/52 pp. 79-80). 8) Dispensing of Existence (This means the organization has the right to decide who should exist and who shouldn't; if you don't agree with them they decide you don't have the right to comment or speak your mind - that you don't have a right to life or recognition as a person.) "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on this beautiful earth" (Ibid, 10/1/52, p. 599). "When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad, a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked" (Ibid, 7/15/61, p. 420). In light of our ongoing research in the area of mind control we are able to more affectively address the heretofore unidentifiable fears and emotional problems of current and former members of the Jehovah's Witnesses. | ||
| TOMMYGUN (198.144.44.5) |
Whatever happened to Manny? I would realy like to know what he thinks about all these responces to his post. | ||
| elisa (64.32.116.114) |
Hi. i'm a christian and my boyfiend is living with JW so in the past few months i have been spending a lot of my time investigating their beliefes and why they are right or not. I have found that they have many contradictions with the Bible and have also noticed that it's not the most Bible based religion , because it bases its beliefes on a few verses and not on everything together. And by the way, in my church they don't make you give money, you do if and when you want to; i personally like giving 10% of what i win with my job to church, because it's the healthiest thing to use your money in, and besides if God gives you everything, why not give him something? Anything you want to tell me, ask me, my email is elisa_emtg@hotmail.com . Oh, and please if you know any information (Bible or history) I can use to present to my boyfriend to show him the error in JW beliefes, please wite me. | ||
| Anonymous (207.43.195.204) |
An awsome book I suggest is by Ron Rhodes which is called "Reasoning From The Scriptures With Jehovah's Witnesses". It goes through passages that JW use to support their belief and how they incorrectly interpret them. It also gives you pointed questions you can ask them to get them to understand the problems. I also have tons of internet resources as well. I'll gather them up if you're interested and email them to you. M | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.28) |
WITNESSING TIPS Discussing Deity with Jehovah's Witnesses http://www.equip.org/free/DJ510.htm Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Trinity http://www.equip.org/free/DJ535.htm EFFECTIVE EVANGELISM Effectively Sharing the Deity of Christ with Jehovah’s Witnesses http://www.equip.org/free/DJ703.htm This one is probably along the lines you are looking for: http://www.carm.org/witnesses.htm M | ||
| TOMMYGUN (198.144.44.5) |
Elisa, your answer is not allways in the scriptures. You are dealing with what is most likely the largest cult on the planet. Anything you bring to the table scripturally will be belayed by faith. The scriptures by there very nature are open to interpretation so who the heck knows if anyone has got it right. Maybe before he is in too deep you can get through to him with logic. Bring to him the facts about the origins of the witness religion. Don't tell him show him,witnesses won't beleive anything unless you show them and even then its a hard long row to ho. Go to GOOGLE and type in ex-jehovah's witnesses. You will find a wealth of information. I have found that challenging a witness on the origin of the watchtower bible and tract society(not the scriptural origin but the actual origin of the society)shakes them. Most witnesses have no real idea how it started. Show him stuff that you can truely back up. Things like occult symbols on the earliest publications. The fact that one of the organizations founders has a pyramid that marks his gravesite. The fact that thousands have died refusing medical help,not to mention all the alligations of various kinds of abuse. He will say that these are lies and that it is proficied persecution or apostate teachings. He may not respond right away but you have planted the seeds that my grow into his enlightenmemt. TOMMYGUN THePREACHERS SON P.S:I am the son of an Elder,I do not beleive in god but I do beleive in freedom. Being a witness has nothing to do with freedom. | ||
| Anonymous (207.43.195.204) |
They are open to interpretation but that does not mean that a correct interpretation cannot be found. THE biggest failure in most is something as simple as context, which JW fail miserably time and time again. People read one verse and immediately think they know what it means without reading anything around it and even trying to understand the context. Even more so even knowing the whole context of scripture. This is a good starter: http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Interpretation.html Another one I started off with is "How To Read The Bible For All It's Worth" by Gordon D. Fee. It shows the many pitfalls that people fall into when reading scripture. Such as using modern culture to interpret something written to a different culture. But it also shows simple steps to avoid those. To expect to spend 5 min a day reading small passages and understand all the Bible is a mistake. But to expect to know the Word of God without spending real study time you can expect to understand the hard teachings. But people spend so little time they don't understand the easy stuff. I'm all for using logic as well. JW do use strange logical arguments to support their beliefs and the book by Ron Rhodes gives you questions you can use to force them to think logically about why their beliefs are incorrect. It shows them where they even contradict themselves in those beliefs and even in their own documents. M | ||
| Anonymous (210.56.37.125) |
Hi I am a ex JW from NewZealand.I enjoy putting flyers in letterboxes titled 33 Reasons Why you might choose not to become a Jehovah's Witness.You can download this from www.jubiliee.org.nz I was very angry when I came out. I hate the way they lie about people when they leave.They hate it when we put out these flyers because the people at the doors are forewarned.Vengeance belongs to our Lord Jesus Christ and it feels good serving him.Agape Maria. | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.11) |
Maria, I couldn't get to that site. Might try again later from a different location. But I love the idea. I've even thought about writing an article for the newspaper. Not naming cults as we have two major ones but expressing how you can be manipulated, lied to, deceived, etc by cults and dangerous religious groups. It would be generic enough but also educate people of the dangers. Thanks M | ||
| Anonymous (12.32.34.15) |
Maria, I'm happy for you that the Truth set you free. Tommygun, you were wronged when you were a child but Jesus can make up for "the years the locusts ate away". True freedom can only be found in Christ and I pray you will not close your mind to searching for the truth. Try reading the Bible for yourself now without the Watchtower doctrines in mind. Jesus came that you Tommygun "may have life and may have it more abundantly" JN 10:10 Frank | ||
| JJ (24.73.134.39) |
I am a 27 year old professional that had a relationship with a 20 year old Jehova Witness. We had a baby last year, and now the parents are controlling the situation. I asked her to marry me, but she refused because I won't join the Jehovas, and now for me to see my beautiful little girl, there has to be a Jehova present as a chaperone. I can't be with the mother or the baby alone, and the babies mother is supporting this abuse. She calls and emails me with how much she misses me, but then turns on me with this Jehova crap. I am afraid that my little girl will turn on me someday because of this brainwashing they do. I want to know if anyone has had experience with a situation such as this, and gone to court to get some type of visitation or custody of the child. Would the court not grant visitation with the father simply because he is not of the same religion as the mother? Would the court see this Jehova abuse as a reason to give custody to the father? Please no venting, I really want attorneys, people with experience, and advocacy groups to respond as this is very serious to me. When the child gets older, I might not gain my rights as a father because of this cult. | ||
| kiara (203.200.30.4) |
Hey JJ, That's sad .I suppose you had illicit relationship and the baby was a result of that relationship.Anyway the feelings of a genuine DAD is evident in the posted message.You did not mention to which country you belong.It all depends on the law that your country protects regarding this case.The universal law in any country clearly states that if a couple is unmarried and a child is born to them,the mother gets full custody of the child and not the father.The girl's family has more positive points in this regard,because the court will favour the best for both the mother and child.Either get legally married(again according to your country's standards)or stay calm for some time.Talk to your girl..find out if she is willing to live with you.I'll tell you more if you are intrested.for now..take care..Kiara. | ||
| Danny Haszard (68.171.204.254) |
Jesus said,"happy are the pure in heart'.This means that i am brutally honest. I'm Danny Haszard from Bangor Maine USA.Former member of the abusive,Kingdom hall of Jehovah's witnesses Rockland Massachusetts USA. Exited out 1-5-92 was in for 33 years.I was 3rd generation,so they still are holding most of my family hostage.The Watchtower swindled most of my family assets,left me destitute at first but i have recovered much. The worst thing that high demand destructive Bible based cults do to their victims is they 'soul rape' you so you become angry at God. It's been called."surrogate displacement" rage.You become 'mad at the world' and it takes a long time to recover. God is good and gracious and i am stronger for it.I have a counter-cult home page please visit and browse.I am determined to provide education and support to warn others of these,'wolves in sheep's clothing'. peace, http://www.DannyHaszard.com | ||
| Anonymous (4.139.90.26) |
Jehova's witness will go to hell, if they don' t accept Jesus. | ||
| ECOG53 (12.158.105.146) |
jesus christ is the virgin born son of god. he paid the price for our salvation by dieing on the cross. the only way to heaven is through him. he is the way and there is no other way. if you don't repent and find yourselves a good christ centered church you will burn in hell. i don't care how often your little kingdom hall says hell isn't real. jesus said there would be weeping and knashing of teeth. and that every knee shall bow and confess that he is lord. you can do it now and obtain everlasting life or you can wait and then you can bow on your way to hell. its not me being unfair to you its gods plan and my job to tell you the truth. | ||
| Anonymous (68.119.47.6) |
to ecog53.... amen and amen,,, priase THE LORD JESUS FOREVERMORE | ||
| JadeAmaranth (24.198.172.180) |
I myself used to be a Jehovah's as well. I've actually been looking for fellow "ex Jw's" the past couple years. There's really no specific story I want to go into, I wouldnt know where to start. I just feel like unloading. Anyone who used to be a witness knows what I mean. Even at 21 years old, I wake up sunday morning, and not being a witness since I was 16, I still wake up with that same old "Oh, man I dont want to go to meeting today" feeling. Then of course, the part of my brain that HAS recovered from years of brainwashing ("soul rape") wakes up and goes "You dumbass, you dont have to go anywhere. You're free." I feel like I'm finally living and that feeling has not gotten old by any means. I dont take for granted that changes that have happened in me and I'm sure you can all relate. See, after I left I basically turned the opposite of how I was raised and of course I didn't just trail of the "Narrow Path" slowly, I careened off the edge and crashed into a full blown heroin addiction. Wish that had never happened but shit, what can I do? Anyone who thinks than Jehovahs Witnesses don't have dark family secrets has obviously never met a witness before. I'm sure you've all heard the accounts of abuse by elders, my parents, or any other member of the congregation. And I don't mean the "abuse" that teenagers complain and bitch about thats merely "You're not allowed to date" etc, I'm talking being molested by a father and beaten by a stepmother. How my dying mother was cheated on by my ministerial servant *however you spell it* father so many times she couldn't count. But only death can end a witness marriage. But anyways I think I've talked enough. I'm not sure why I got into all of this but if anyone is interested in contacting me feel free to check my website: www.narrowpath.cjb.net It's actually just a personal website that has very little to do with JW's. Later. | ||
| Anonymous (210.8.232.2) |
The bible and the witnesses may seem as a restriction, but it is only a restriction from what can potentially lead to a unhealthy, immoral life. i dont know about all of you, but i dont personally want to be told to go and get drugged up and sleep around with whoever i please. the bible and what the witnesses teach is there for your protection. protection from things that will harm you.they are only restrictions if you view to see them that way, but you can also view them as counsel. also, for all the ex-witnesses, it seems like you have left the society and are 'livin it up'. gee, i wish i left the society and got tattoos started experimenting with drugs too (NOT). i think that many of the people that have left is due to peer pressure, and i suppose not everyone is strong enough to resist that peer pressure. everyone knows that it is easier to live life doing what you please, smoking what you want, sleeping with who you want. it is more of a challenge doing what is right. and not only doing what is right according to the bible, but also the laws and regulations of the government. if im not mistaken, its not legal to take drugs, so the bible and witnesses tell you not to do that sort of stuff for your protection. also think of the money you would save!!!! $$1000's...but thats just common knowledge!!!! by the way, i am 18 and i have been a witness all of my life, i got baptised at 15, not becuase i was forced, or in any way had a brain washed, but once you see what people your age have to deal with, drug abuse, unwanted pregnacies the list goes on...once you see that, you realise that you ARENT missing out on anything that will better your life. | ||
| Anonymous (203.200.30.3) |
hey guys ...u really hate JW's so much....I aint one..but 'am curious y u hate 'em coz when I deal with these people I dont fell anything like u guys r feelin'...........good suggestions please. | ||
| Anonymous (67.249.230.147) |
Please JW's change your ways, change your minds, seek for the truth before it's too LATE. | ||
| Anonymous (63.172.71.3) |
Hi, I have not read all the email's only a few and my heart goes out to you. I'm not here to do any religion bashing, just wanted to send a few words of encouragement. Just wanted to let you know that Jesus is the true and living God. The bible says there in no name above this name whereby men can be saved. Just pray and ask God in Jesus name to send understanding, forgivness, the truth and salvation to you and seek him while he can be found. I'm willing to start a prayer request line tell us your prayer request and we will pray about them together and watch God work. He will bring understanding, and peace to your mind in Jesus name amen. | ||
| Kevin oRiely (64.12.117.20) |
I was born into the "truth" and it was like getting sentenced to Life without parole for a parking ticket.I was going out in the door to door preaching work at the age of 5 and gave my first talk in the "misery school" at the age of 11.I was forbidden to date but somehow managed to get a girlfriend at the age of 14 and she was baptised and a full time pioneer so like a total shithead I dropped out of high school at 16,got baptised and became a full time pioneer to impress my girlfriend and we made plans to get married at the age of 18.I forgot one major detail,I didn't have a career or a fargin' diploma to get one.Well the hormones kicked in and before we knew it my girlfriend and me started feeling each other up and I got a chronic case of blueballs which drove me to drinking and smoking weed.on a couple of occaisons my girl and me got high together and made out naked but never had inter of course since she said she didn't want to get in trouble. well that bullshit came to an abrupt end when the traitorous little bitch ratted me out to the elders who on the mere basis of that evil bitch's statements disfellowshipped me without even contacting me to see if she was telling the truth.yeah you heard me I was disfellowshipped without ever being contacted much less having a face to face meeting with the servant's of satan.they ruined my life and as a result of the trauma I accidently overdosed on pure LSD and was almost beaten to death by a cop in the process of my arrest.the son of a bitch bashed my brains in with a blackjack ( a lead pipe wrapped in leather)and I have suffered severe mental/emotional trauma compounded by chronic substance abuse to this day 3 DECADES later.My parents are still JW's but my 2 sisters "fell away" thank god for them and have had fairly normal and successful lives and have been happily married while I lived in a life of constant trips to rehabs,mental hospitals and a few visits to the county jail.In 1999 I cut my hair which was to the middle of my back,quit smoking,drinking and drugging and hadn't had sex for over 3 years and went to speak to the elders about getting reinstated as I thought that would cure all my problems and I would finally "get out of life alive"! Boy was I in for a rude wake up call. The pompus bastards told me that I had to write a letter to them requesting an audience with them and also write a short bio of my circumstances and my reasons for wanting to get reinstated.GOD BLESS THE CONSPIRACY! At first I couldn't figure out for the life of me why the hell they wanted a letter and then it hit me like a ton of bricks.These evil selfish little sons of satan wanted to cover their ( the wts ) asses SO i COULDN'T SUE THEM IN THE FUTURE IF THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT WITH A FAIRY TALE ENDING.I was appalled at first then mad as a mutherfucker.I continued to be conflicted for the next 5 years as to what course of action I should take as this satanic cult had ruined the best years of my life but the programming is so powerful I couldn't break free even after all the shit I had been through with god's chosen people- ha! ha!When I saw the story on NBC's Datline about the pedophile problem in the organisation I knew at that point these false prophets had to be exposed for the frauds they were.I have realised that my salvation comes from my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ AND NOT A GROUP OF MAJIK PRACTISING FALSE PRIESTS and so I have embarked on a project to form a World Class Christian Rock Band to help spread the Gospel and if the Lord is willing I intend to file a major civil action against this group of phonies and maybe even launch a class action litigation along with others who have suffered the kind of spiritual and emotional/mental abuse that I have. Please excuse my language but I am an imperfect man and I had a great need to vent my anger and frustration against the people whom I once thought were my brother's and spiritual mentors. May the Love and healing Peace of The Almighty YAHWEH and His Beloved Son Christ Jesus be with ALL of you who have been the victim's of the REAL apostates. AGAPE' | ||
| jenny (149.174.164.83) |
this is 4 every1 here but i'd like 2 direct myself 2 manny, tommy & jj....plz just dont be rude or hurtful 2 me in any way im just askn some questions as well as 2 gv u my story & point of view! my name in jenny im 21yrs old & i was rasied as a jw. as a lil kid i never celebrated any holidays & i got baptized @14 @ 16 i became a pioneer.as a child i was never allowed 2 date or go 2 concerts or wear short short shirts or tight sexy shirts & i hated being a jw because i felt like i couldnt do anything!yet i respectd my parents because i was a minor i as long as i live under there roof u obey them & respect them! whn i turn 18yrs old i WNT WILD! once i got my car all i wntd 2 do was go out once i had my own $$ all i wntd 2 do was wear sexy cloths & look hot for the guys & get ph #s & go on dates & party yet i still wnt 2 the meetings because i was tryn 2 figure out where i stood. at 19 i startd 2 change & i met a brother from my kindom hall i startd 2 fall in love & thn from 1 day 2 the nxt he left me no reason so i was sad & felt lonely & i thought that being a jw suckd i stil didnt understand why i couldnt just date a nice guy whos a non jw..finally i met 1 & i wnt 2 my 1st concert w/ him drank & i had a sexy out fit..i felt GREAT& i startd falling in LOVE w/ him (i 2 listn 2 rock OZZY, DISTURBID, KORN) anyway i slowly stopd going 2 the meetings & just like manny my parents would tell me what i should do but couldnt mk me do it cause i was over 18yrs old... so long story short i left my house moved out of state & decided id start my new life where no1 knws me. but wht happens the guy i love so much moves 2 the same state as me & 1month later im pregnate! for not following my beleifs & my parents guideince i gave up the 1 thing thats supps 2 be 4 marriage just like any other religion beleives..so what happens i too wnt 2my congregation & told my elders as well as my parents yet because i knew i had messed up i truly excepted the concequse of being reaproved..so i stayd out of state where no 1 knew me because i felt embarresd of wht i had done & i had a beautiful baby boy 2 months ago & whn i retured home 2 show off my baby every1 expected me back w/ open arms & told me jehova god is a loving god who no matter what loves me & that we all r imperfect & we all make mistakes but whn a parent tells u something it 4 ur own good & it tk me 2 hv a baby 2 learn that & now i am thankful for it... yet unlike jj my non jw boyfriend hasnt askd me 2 get married even though my family has askd him if he's planing 2 marry me because we do beleive in being marryd & i for 1 dont wnt 2 see my son grow up away from his dad & even the elders in my congration accpet my decisions because i am an adult & i have 2 mk my own decisions.. jj im very sorry u hv 2 go through that but plz understand no 2 jw are the same that goes for every religion & u unlike my byfnd r willing 2 commit 2 hvn a family..ur dghtr will love u no matter what..& i always tell my byfrnd if he ever wants 2 study being a jw its up 2 him but i do ask of him jut 2 respect me & my beliefs.. to tomy & manny i understand u hv had unpleast xperince but truly thinks about what happend u cant blame that on jehova if u had a prob w/ certan brothers thn just understand that we are all imperfect & so is the world u shouldnt hold such a gruge & BE FILLD W/ SUCH HATE..because if thats the case thn think about all the times any non jw has ever hurt ur feelins or told u that u were wrong about something...IN THAT CASE U WOULD HATE THE WHOLE WORLD.. i finally stopd 2 realize that this whole time my parents were tryn 2 stop me from doing things there was actually a good reason behind it..& jehova never stoppd loving me people will always be imperfect people so dont tk it so personally...just learn 2 FORGIVE PLZ...I KNW I DID even though i still like rock i have a baby now & thats chgd my whole life & my outlook onlife & im going 2the meetings again & i'll be moveing back near my family & hopefully i'll get married 1day 2 some1 who respects me always remember jehova & jesus christ never give up on..u give up on them..& no 1 jw is the same so plz dont be so hurtfully 2 jw And 2 cathy @ ur age u should really learn how 2 4give & not be such an angery person whos so full of hate if u have any questions feel free 2 email me @ jmv613@yahoo.com | ||
| TOMMYGUNthePREACHERSSON (136.142.173.234) |
I don't know...maybe all the hatefull venom that you are hearing is justified. When you wake up one day to realize that you've waisted your life in constant torment over something that obviously isn't true then we can talk. YOU KNOW PEOPLE OFTEN TIMES RETURN TO CULTISH RELATIONSHIPS BECAUSE THE BRAINWASHING IS SO STRONG. I had to experience a lot of life first to become a well rounded person capable of making a well rounded decision. Even now at 35 I am still shaking off the shackles of this so called religion,but because of my life experience I know that it is wrong and I will never go back. I may still feel the effects but I am a much more intelligent now and will not fall for it. TOMMYGUNthePREACHERSSON | ||
| Anonymous (69.34.34.199) |
I too have been a jehovahs wittness for 20 years, and I had my father yell at my subbmisive mother every night,burned all worldly music and cd's. Felt like I had to pretend puberty never really happend. I have now alienated my freind's and famly because of this screwed up religin. I've also heard that a lot of former jw's have commited suicide because of the withdraw in reality. I think these parent's should be put on a little island, and have surgery to not have kid's!!! then this screwed up religen would one day go away..then they would get that nice paridise world.. | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.13) |
I am 14 and have been born a JW. I just want to say that what has been written about JW is false. I made the decision to get baptized at the age of 12. No one forced me, and you are never forced to do such a thing because all witnesses know what a serious commmitment you are making. If you choose to not be a witness than don't get BAPTIZED. If you get baptized and then choose to not be a JW anymore then you will be disfellowshiped, but that is a choice you are making. We are not brainwashed and you are not forced to do anything you don't want to, but if you are underage and living with your parents and they say you have to do certain things than you have to listen to your parents but getting baptized is your own personal decision. The people that have been saying wrong things about witnesses are those that don't want to be JWs and don't want anyone else to be. My advise to you, get to know the JW. They are not what most people picture them to be. Anonymous | ||
| piphc (211.29.2.153) |
Manny your statement about your experience and the witnesses is great because I myself am no longer a witness any more. There christian cult ways were very soul destroying in mind, body and soul. These Jehovah's witnesses take everything from you and in return you walk the walk and talk the talk to impress who. I my self way vulnerable when at 17 teen joined them hoping that they had the answers to my life's distress. As the years went by I also realised that they hide abuse because someone I baby sat was sexually abused by a close relative and I felt I could not stay with these witnesses. The abuser (offender) was disfellowshipped in this state, fled this state before the health services and police could become involved. I heard He was reinstated again in another state and says 'I did nothing wrong'. This added extra stress my own life issues, to the stage that I wanted to commit siucide for them. I needed to leave and eventually I did. Knowing others had committed suicide within the witnesses ranks. Be real, these experiences are real within the witness ranks. Life experiences, that change life it's self and hidding behind a god that is also not helpful as well does not do justice to the witnesses. Practices are of cult like structure. Suttle mind control talking is done to make you believe in what ever they want you to do. To indoctrinate you into there way of life practices. If you doubt them then your out. Why then can't you research there true history of Jehovah's witnesses. I was told You would be Kicked out if you did, you get what we teach you. Look behind those rose coloured glass and see real people being effected by way's and practices of these witnesses. It's okay to be a moderate witness, look at being true to yourself. c | ||
| Anonymous (68.107.72.125) |
Hello, my name is Corvin and I also live in the San Diego area. I was born and raised in the org and have been through so much like so many of you. Two of children attempted suicide because of the pressure from their JW mother and stepfather to stay in the organization and be good little JW clones. The abuse we all suffered growing up in the org is typical, but there is now help for all of us. I have formed San Diego's first X-JW support group. Everyone is welcome. Whether you are df'd, da'd, "apostate" or just a slow fader, you and your loved ones will benefit from these group meetups. For more information go to: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/80098/1.ashx Hope to see you there! | ||
| rebelrenegade (rebelrenegade) New member Username: rebelrenegade Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.214.86.140 |
Posted on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 6:43 am: Frankly, if you like the ministry then you are weirdo amongst weirdos. Are you referring to just Jehovahs witness or everyone in General? Personally, I am going to enjoy the ministry. And no I am not JW. Sure it will have its rough spots, but Personally I believe if a person enjoys the ministry, I honestly believe that they are going to do a serious work for God. Not saying that I will. Only God knows. | ||
| guests_peeker (guests_peeker) New member Username: guests_peeker Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.165.19.106 |
I was raised a witness and left around the age of 17. I have no idea what is meant by "dub", "df'd", "da'd"- I would like to know what they mean. Aside from that? There are people that hide child abusers in every religion around the world. Even athiests have them. That is no reflection on the religion. Besides any cloistered environment promotes a closed community protectionism. Even corporations and law firms do this. It is not unique to religion. See? The problem is- they all have humans in them and humans are flawed and are going to screw up. Why be freaked when they do? If the situation is intolerable and you can't fix it- like, by not hiding abusers yourself and being a co-conspirator- then leave. If the religious doctrines are not in harmony with what you understand as you grow in your 'studies' or 'walk' or 'knowledge' (whatever you want to call it) then leave. It really is a matter of making your own choices and moving on. There is no such thing as getting even or making them realize. You only keep yourself down in the muck and prevent yourself from enjoying your life. | ||
| lexlex (lexlex) New member Username: lexlex Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.94.223.210 |
recently, i've loved going to meetings. Even if i'm tired and down from the day I know it is a place i can go to feel upbuilt and relaxed. This is why i feel like i should post because i am not at all one sided to this matter though. i can see very very clearly both sides of the story. Jehovah's Witnesses are imperfect and so is the organization, just like everyone else on the face of the earth. So, people will always interpret things being said on the platform differently. There will always be the extremeists. What i've learned through the past few years is that you don't worship God for people. You worship God because you love him. I am a Jehovah's Witness because i love Jehovah our God, the maker of us all. The reason we are even all here posting on this board today. Sure, i've had opportunities to be stumbled by individual humans and sure i have, but at the end of the day i serve Jehovah for Jehovah not for people. And yes it is hard to hold to certain standards and we all fall short everyday, but I've been so close to so many crazy things over the past few years and now i can truly see what a blessing it is to have a relationship with Jehovah. Partying and everything that goes along with it may seem fun for a while, but it is very unfullfilling. If you look at so many people they are so unhappy and have huge problems that i am so thankful for not having at my age. And I'm so thankful that i have a religion that can answer the questions i have and i do not feel in the dark. I know that many of you will disagree and feel like it doesn't answer your questions, but it does answer mine..at least the best that any religion can that is currently out there. We are always encouraged not discouraged to do personal research to read the bible daily and do our own reasoning. I know that some of you say that it is a religion of fear. But that is only the case if you are afraid of being punished by a man. It is not a religion that places a fear of God. We do not even believe in hell as a fiery place. I am so relieved that i don't sit around feeling like i will go there. And we emphasize over and over again that Jehovah God is a loving god that foregives us each and every day and that is how we are suppose to be to each other. Even though some Witnesses do not practice that. But again in no way are they practicing what Jehovah is teaching they are acting from an imperfect standpoint. It seems to me that when anything bad happens in this religion it is brought out to the forefront. Maybe because in general not that many bad things go on and most people that profess to be Witnesses and actually take to heart what they hear are good people. In fact, you probably work with many or have them as neighbors and you may even like them not knowing that they are Witnesses. As far as us annoying you by knocking on your doors, well, you have to remember that there are still many people out there with no guidance and no knowledge of God that are thankful that someone is there willing to take the time out to study the bible with them, even when the majority of time doors are being slammed in our face. I could honestly go on and on about this because again I feel so strongly about it. But i guess i'm just here to emphasize the fact that Jehovah is a loving God and that is what we are taught. We are taught not to be judgemental people and i am not, and if someone you know is then they aren't fully listening to what they are being taught. And like in any religion or just people in general we are all there for the same reason to serve God and live happy, healthy lives. | ||
| lexlex (lexlex) New member Username: lexlex Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.94.223.210 |
I've never posted on a message board like this before and I know that no matter what i say it's not going to change how many of you feel about Jehovah's Witnesses and for that reason part of me feels like i shouldn't even try, but since i feel so strongly about this subject i feel compelled to at least post my feelings. I have been raised a Jehovah's Witness all my life and so have both of my parents. And yes, i did grow up different than a lot of kids i went to school with. I didn't celebrate birthdays or holidays and i left the classroom a lot during these times, but in no way was i mistreated. In no way was i unloved or deprived. My family always sat down and reasoned with me as to why they felt the way they did about certain practices and always encouraged me to do my own personal study to hopefully feel the same way they did. As a child though we accept guidance from our parents. We like to follow what they do. All little kids are like that with not just religion. Baptism was such a personal decision for me. Never was it even implied that it was time for me to be baptized, but in my heart that is what i wanted. I was 16 almost 17 years old. I was not baptized as a baby. Through the more recent years i have seen a lot of the world. My family has been through a lot and so have I. I am in no way clueless to what goes on and am in no way brainwashed by devoting at most 5 hours a week at meetings. More recently, i've loved going to meetings. Even if i'm tired and down from the day I know it is a place i can go to feel upbuilt and relaxed. This is why i feel like i should post because i am not at all one sided to this matter though. i can see very very clearly both sides of the story. Jehovah's Witnesses are imperfect and so is the organization, just like everyone else on the face of the earth. So, people will always interpret things being said on the platform differently. There will always be the extremeists. What i've learned through the past few years is that you don't worship God for people. You worship God because you love him. I am a Jehovah's Witness because i love Jehovah our God, the maker of us all. The reason we are even all here posting on this board today. Sure, i've had opportunities to be stumbled by individual humans and sure i have, but at the end of the day i serve Jehovah for Jehovah not for people. And yes it is hard to hold to certain standards and we all fall short everyday, but I've been so close to so many crazy things over the past few years and now i can truly see what a blessing it is to have a relationship with Jehovah. Partying and everything that goes along with it may seem fun for a while, but it is very unfullfilling. If you look at so many people they are so unhappy and have huge problems that i am so thankful for not having at my age. And I'm so thankful that i have a religion that can answer the questions i have and i do not feel in the dark. I know that many of you will disagree and feel like it doesn't answer your questions, but it does answer mine..at least the best that any religion can that is currently out there. We are always encouraged not discouraged to do personal research to read the bible daily and do our own reasoning. I know that some of you say that it is a religion of fear. But that is only the case if you are afraid of being punished by a man. It is not a religion that places a fear of God. We do not even believe in hell as a fiery place. I am so relieved that i don't sit around feeling like i will go there. And we emphasize over and over again that Jehovah God is a loving god that foregives us each and every day and that is how we are suppose to be to each other. Even though some Witnesses do not practice that. But again in no way are they practicing what Jehovah is teaching they are acting from an imperfect standpoint. It seems to me that when anything bad happens in this religion it is brought out to the forefront. Maybe because in general not that many bad things go on and most people that profess to be Witnesses and actually take to heart what they hear are good people. In fact, you probably work with many or have them as neighbors and you may even like them not knowing that they are Witnesses. As far as us annoying you by knocking on your doors, well, you have to remember that there are still many people out there with no guidance and no knowledge of God that are thankful that someone is there willing to take the time out to study the bible with them, even when the majority of time doors are being slammed in our face. I could honestly go on and on about this because again I feel so strongly about it. But i guess i'm just here to emphasize the fact that Jehovah is a loving God and that is what we are taught. We are taught not to be judgemental people and i am not, and if someone you know is then they aren't fully listening to what they are being taught. And like in any religion or just people in general we are all there for the same reason to serve God and live happy, healthy lives. | ||
| refiner (refiner) New member Username: refiner Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 211.28.229.154 |
Come visit your ex brothers at; www.jehovahswitnesschitchat.com  | ||
| solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.101.110.35 |
In response to LEXLEX I am not a JW nor have I ever been one, but I have relatives that are. My aunt who is Catholic has one JW daughter, one xJW son, and one Born Again Daughter, and one atheist son. The very active JW daughter does not speak to the xJW son because he has left the flock. She did not attend her born again sisters wedding nor our grandmother or grandfather funerals because she was forbidden to step inside the church building, instead she sat on the steps of the church for her sisters wedding. So that "separates" her from the world. Makes her different shows her devotion to Jehovah? My aunt does celebrate the holidays. For instance she does Thanksgiving on Thursday for the kids that can show up and for the JW and her husband they have turkey and all the fixings on Friday....because oh my God they can't have that dinner all together. Please.....all for the love of Jehovah? And serving him. I am confused. My immediate family has diverse beliefs. Mostly we are christians. Some are born again, some are athiest, some catholic, but all of us come together in times of need, celebration and grief, putting aside our differences and simply coming together as a family. | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING I am a disfellowshiped JW and thought I would, for the fun of it include my two cents…. One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” | ||
| amanda_in_canada (amanda_in_canada) New member Username: amanda_in_canada Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.202.153.128 |
Besides all the garbage that some of thease people are spreading. You have a gift Manny a view of truth and I hope the truth that God loves you. You are right about the dress coad Jesus didn't have a bed to sleep in and at times he probably realy stank. He still shared the word with us. You got to forgive them they are weak like all of us. They don't feel or see your pain they choose not to. But you feel it and it will distroy you! The thing that stoped me from becomming a JW was the fact that they falsely prophisized the end of the worln numerous times. And God says that thoes who say that things will come to pass and thoes things never come to pass, that thoes people are not of him. | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING I am a disfellowshiped JW and thought I would, for the fun of it include my two cents…. One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P.S. Amanda in Canada: It is better to to err and to live in in expectation of a matter than to not err, or err and NOT live or be in expectation of something. Just like the apostles, one can make a mistake, like those who follow Jesus, regardless of the experience of Judas, and like the apostles, who wrongly thought Jesus was going to do something after his ressurection (Acts 1:6&7) and like John the Baptist before them ([Matthew 11:2-6] "But John, having heard in jail about the works of the Christ, sent by means of his own disciples and said to him: “Are you the Coming One, or are we to expect a different one?” In reply Jesus said to them: “Go YOUR way and report to John what YOU are hearing and seeing: The blind are seeing again, and the lame are walking about, the lepers are being cleansed and the deaf are hearing, and the dead are being raised up, and the poor are having the good news declared to them; and happy is he that finds no cause for stumbling in me.”) JW's have never claimed perfection; Witnesses are people too..... Hang in there and do what's right. If right be by standard Christian Standards, then you are salf, if by JW's standard, than so be it as well!!! | ||
| amanda_in_canada (amanda_in_canada) New member Username: amanda_in_canada Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.202.153.128 |
I am christian and I believe there is only on road to God so therefore not all are saved I just don't believe that god wishes us to condem all of man kind anyways as the JW's believe if I wrong I will never be the wiser! No loss! | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
Amanda: Think about it! With that attitude you would have had a tough time had you lived during the time of the Flood! Why? Only eight souls survived as the all the rest of mankind was condemned to death. Almighty God is not swayed by numbers. People are swayed by numbers. No matter how much protest one would have given back then, like or disliked something, unless you were on the ark, one was divinely executed. Imagine being alive at the time of the flood, and not particularly liking Noah or his family; maybe they were rubbed you the wrong way, crass, difficult, or, you just plainly didn’t like them. All of the rest of mankind, regardless of opinions, feelings or whatever, were executed along with al the rest of animal mankind. Matthew 24: 37-39 says, “For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.” It appears numbers are clearly not an issue here. According to Acts 24:15 it states, “and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous”, that’s a whole lot of people! It appears that when Almighty God acts during this time of the end, it will be when it benefits both live and dead mankind the most, thus, most of the people that will be saved, via dead mankind, most all of whom are not Jehovah’s Witnesses, will be saved-meaning Billions dead will come back to life in the resurrection. However, like the Flood, the holy scriptures make clear a parallel, with that day and today, that just like survival in Noah’s day was absolutely dependent upon getting onto and into the ark, so too, today we have a kinda modern day symbolic ark for survival, and numbers are not going to be taken into consideration. That’s what it’s all; about. They were ridiculers then and there is no lack of ridiculers now. But please don’t make judgments on people, because, regardless of who we are, we all make mistakes, and will continue to make mistakes until such time as we are free from sin. It is how we handle our mistakes and what we do to correct them, that count. I will end this commentary by telling you a story; Imagine yourself living at the time that the Messiah, Jesus Christ was alive here on earth, but; you did not know he was around. Imagine yourself as a Jew, but living in a distant land, away from you Jerusalem, and Jesus’ system of worship and in fact, you spoke another language. Now, imagine, that you got on your hands and knees, and called out to your heavenly father and said something like; ‘I know you are there, and hear me, and will answer my prayer—Father I am confused, there are so many religions out there, including mine as a Jew, and so many different schools of thought among us as Jews.’ Now, imagine your then making a further plea in prayer; ‘Father help me with this confusion, and lead me to the path of truth, that is truly yours in order for me to follow.’ Now, how do you think he would have answered you………One way, for certain would be is, to maneuver the circumstances, for you to meet with his Son, the Messiah, Jesus Christ, who was then walking the earth! Now, then, it would be up to you to accept him, and remember, most of his own people hated him, the numbers were against one wanting to believe and follow Christ; Would you have done so? If you say that prayer today, Almightily God will also answer your prayer by maneuvering circumstances for you to find the path today that he approves of. Now, like with Jesus, many may scoff at the answer you get, and you may not like it, but, it comes down to, what will you do? I wish you nothing but the best in your relationship, with our most wonderful God, Jehovah and his most wonderful Son, Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior! Take care, Montana | ||
| linda21 (linda21) New member Username: linda21 Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.98.211.121 |
How many of the above comments come from the Bible? Most of it is he said/she said; this happened to me/ this happened to my family. There are consequences because we live in sin, and a lot of you dwell on those consequences rather than answeres from the bible. Ask youself, how much of the bible have I read and understand? David was someone in the bible who had consequences for his sins but yet still remained loyal to Jehovah. He even went to the point of fornicating with another mans wife, and having her husband put in the front lines of battle to be killed! And because of this David experienced many problems and CONSEQUENCES because of his actions. But David did not blame his religion on his problems. He stayed loyal to God Jehovah. Why is this not being discussed? And if the organization is really "brainwashing" their followers, then what is their goal? It is not money, since they do not demand donations, and none of the positions thoughout the organization make a wage. Their kindom halls (places of worship) are not luxurious. They do not get paid for going door to door! Is it power? No one in the religion claims to be more important than the next, in fact the elders of the religion are more humble than most. No one at headquarters are looking for prominent positions within society or the organization... Is it politics? If you know a JW, then you know that the only government they believe in is Gods? So I ask you? What is the motivation for brainwashing? And what many of you are not hearing are the good experiences that come from JW's. Let's talk about the majority of the witnesses... They are always kind people are they not? Their children are well behaved, are they not? They are clean, meek, and humble... But they never try to make praise for themselves. And that is why, what most people hear is the bad, always the bad (most of it not true). Witnesses beleive that from the bible the more important issue is staying loyal to Jehovah, and one of Jehovah's comandments for his servents is to preach and teach the good news. The bible says "You must obey god as ruler, rather than man" (Acts 5:29) So do they worry about what man says about them? A true witness does not fear any man, only Jehovah. So next time you see a witness at the door, know that they are searching for those who want to more about the BIBLE, and what it says... not cult teachings. What hope do you have? | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
Linda21, did you read the comment I posted here, especially to this Amanda girl. I agree with you. Keep up the good work! I hope to be be reinstated soon, Jehovah willing! Montana | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.8.225 |
umm... not exactly true that no one is looking for power and prestige within the organization of Jehovah's witnesses- in the last 10 years or so they have been suggesting that our children and bible studies should know all the names of the governing body and one elder told members of my family that elders were "the finger of God" with the ability to judge others... THe society is very crafty in that they claim to not seek power but in every congregation that i have been in- and Ive been in a lot... there are peoples looking to move up just the same as in the corporate world- it wouldn't be so bad if they were honest but what makes it worse is that they pretend to be above all that! | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
hi Nekro85,if you are still on the board let me know, i would like to respone | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.93.40 |
praetorian ... Did not the praetorian guard kill the Emperor on more than one occasion to take the throne for themselves. I also am betting that i for one would not care to live in those days with Noah, I hear he got drunk and passed out naked in front of his sons. I am not trying to be difficult just showing two sides to every story. I would guess that on Judgement day, the JWs will see Jesus along with all the rest of creation as promised, they will fall to their knees as will the Mormons the Catholics the Jews the UUs ect, for who are not Gods children? Your Father loves all of his creations. If you think less you do not know his justice nor mercy. So it is not a case of which church is saved but which people in which church? Good people are good . When you are judged you are judged alone, your church nor minister are there. The idea is to just keep loving Jesus till he returns, maybe that will be sooner than we think. Jesus liked that people prayed alone out of the sight of others. Maybe there is not true church, just true people. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.93.40 |
praetorian ... forgot to mention I loved your two cents, very witty. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.157 |
sharon, good points about the "saved"... I think it is truly arrogant for every big or small group on this earth to think they are the only ones who will be saved... and I have heard this belief repeated by just about every religious group you can think of...Jesus gave his life in ransom of the world and also the Bible is written for any and all who wish to read it...just my opinion and belief but I am willing to take my chances in finding the meaning to things out here- outside the orgs. | ||
| zinn (zinn) New member Username: zinn Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 12.220.73.211 |
well, where do i begin. i was raised a 3rd generation jehovah's witness. i have 2 sisters and a brother. my sister, like most witnesses was horney and ready to get out of the house, so she got married at 18. that was almost 12 years ago (i was 8 at the time.) she had a baby tight around her 1 year anniversary. they lived in a shithole apartment and she worked nights while her alcoholic husband worked nights. she got down to about 90 lbs and was at on the verge of a nervous breakdown. she begged the elders of the congregation to talk to her husband. of course it didnt work. she begged for a divorce, of course, that was looked down upon. the hotel she worked at offered her a job in the camen islands and she asked her husband if he would go. but of course he didnt want to go. she left with another man from work to live in the islands and get away from the grip of the witnesses. she also left her 18 month old baby. she was disfellowshiped of course. the family looked at her as an outcast and we hated her for it. we took her husband in and their baby and said we would always be family to them and anything he needed we would provide. he shortly met another young JW and was married within 6 months of his and my sisters divorce. we had a good relatinship with his wife, she was friendly. after about 18 months my sister could not handle being away from her child any longer and moved back. she let her child stay with his father and step-mother and agreed to let their child go to the witness meetings and did everything according to their terms since she had been in the wrong on the first place. everything seemed to be going okay until about 5 years ago when tamara(the step-mother) accused my sister and her husband, along with my family of abusing the child. we went to court and it was obvious their was no sign of abuse and the judge threw the case out. it was an awful experience for the whole family and my mother fell away along with me and my little sister (my brother had been long gone). my dad still went to the meetings, but doesnt go out in service much. well things have been okay until about a year ago tamara and my sisters ex got a divorce (just something else to drag this poor child through). candace knew she needed to be there for him, but her ex said he would live in an apt nearby tamara so he could go to the same school and see his two half brothers. we agreed it would be tramatic if he had to be far from them since all of my family is so close and we know how it is to keep those ties. well, about three weeks ago tamara(well, i'd actually like to call her the anti-christ because the shit she pulls) served my sister with papers to take full custody of my nepherw. HIS EX-STEPMOTHER!!!) on top of that, the father is okay with this. they want this child to only see her son for one day a month. tamara remarried quickly and have taught my nephew (who's almost 11) to call these people mom and dad. it turns out the whole time my sister thought he was living with dad, he's lived with tamara(the anti-christ). my dad called the elders at their kingdom hall in a desperate atempt to clear this matter up and told them that this sister would be charged with purgury. the elder told my dad that maybe he need to be careful of purgury. the entire witness community is backing this child being taken away. there is a pamphlet called "Direct and Cross Examination Questions in Child Custody Cases" that teaches the witnesses and their children how to lie on the witness stand. my poor nephew is confused and doesnt want to disappoint anyone. in the end, we will get him, whether its in court or its years from now when he realizes what the witnesses have done to him. if this god and his people are just, then tell me why... why would they support a child being taken away from their mother? why is it okay to harrass us constatly and to tell everyone they come in contact with how crazy my sister is? she made some mistakes, we all do, but all she wants now whats best for her son. and playiong sports and having friends and leading a semi-normal childhood is what I would think is best...dont you? | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.252 |
zinn, I am touched by your account of things- I hope no one in your family is relying on help from the elders because they are very flighty and unreliable and do not mind having their secret meetings about those whom they are pretending to help- I agree with your comments at the end also- the ex step mother should have no business in this case- | ||
| zinn (zinn) New member Username: zinn Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 12.220.73.211 |
luvliberty, thank you for your response and encouragement. we are not relying on the elders, at this point we rely on an ex-witness that is a legal analysis in california and knows everything we're going through and speacializes in child custody cases. please spread the REAL truth! | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.252 |
it sounds like you are in good hands- those witnesses are just a pain in the you know where to deal with... you would think that they would get tired of trying to manage the universe but it seems to be me that they never cease their involvements- keep me posted as to what happens if you can- | ||
| zinn (zinn) New member Username: zinn Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 12.220.73.211 |
yes we are in good hands. i hate when the elders use to get involved with every little thing that goes on even if you're not baptized! what about you...were you ever baptized. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.245 |
yes unfortunately i was steeped in it at one time- i was married to an elder and my father was an elder- and i was a pioneer for 7 years- I understand to a large degree what you are going thru even though i don't 100%- when my brother was disfellowshipped, my parents began to take a hard look at the witnesses for demanding that we as a family cut him off- my family refused to do that-mom and dad slowed in attendance and dad stepped down from eldering- at the time my husband was still an elder but there were happenings in the congregation where we were that put doubts in our minds about it- we eventually faded out ourselves and moved to get away from the elders and the cong. after we moved and didn't practice the religion anymore, we saw that other than the religion, we had absolutely nothing in common and therefore we divorced- i think my experience is one reason why the org. should not require marriages to be only within the org- i still have another brother and a sister heavily involved in it and they do not speak to me or my other sister and brother who no longer attend- | ||
| zinn (zinn) New member Username: zinn Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 12.220.73.211 |
well, i have found a great support system online and people who have gone through the same type of thing. i still think it's amazing that an ex- stepmother can actually even be considered as a primary parent. i found the entire publication online about how they caoch witnesses on what to say in court and what the kids are suppose to say. i now remeber that when this whole thing started my nephew talked about how he was going to practice what he was suppose to say in front of a judge! thats what i garantee they are doing today with him. tomorrow is court date #1. if it doesn't go our way, i hate to think what my sister will do. so pray for us to whatever is out there, because we need all the help we can get! | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.252 |
surely the judge will not award custody to a non- biological person when there is a biological parent who wants the child- i am really surprised that the ex- stepparent has gotten this far with the case- can you print off a copy of the document with instruction for court- the one your nephew is supposed to practice and give it to your legal counsel? I will be praying for your situation and i certainly hope all goes well- as a mother myself i can imagine how hard this is on your sister- but in my non expert opinion, i do not think that the other woman has a case | ||
| zinn (zinn) New member Username: zinn Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 12.220.73.211 |
unfprtunetely, the sscary part is if they get jusrisdiction in indiana, they may very well win the case. this is an "old boy" kind of government where they only care about their residents, and my nephew is one of their residents. so the case tomorrow will determine whether it stays here inky or over there in indiana! just pray it goes well!!!! | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.180 |
one thing going in your favor- if the court can be shown what an extreme lifestyle the boy will be placed in if awarded to the other woman and has to remain in the cult of the jws- and that there is brainwashing occurring(ie the answers your nephew had to practice) the court will probably side with the natural parent | ||
| bonny21 (bonny21) New member Username: bonny21 Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.43.226.119 |
So true LexLex. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 318 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
praetorian (Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005) Amanda: I will end this commentary by telling you a story; Imagine yourself living at the time that the Messiah, Jesus Christ was alive here on earth, but; you did not know he was around. Imagine yourself as a Jew, but living in a distant land, away from you Jerusalem, and Jesus’ system of worship and in fact, you spoke another language. Now, imagine, that you got on your hands and knees, and called out to your heavenly father and said something like; ‘I know you are there, and hear me, and will answer my prayer—Father I am confused, there are so many religions out there, including mine as a Jew, and so many different schools of thought among us as Jews.’ Now, imagine your then making a further plea in prayer; ‘Father help me with this confusion, and lead me to the path of truth, that is truly yours in order for me to follow.’ Now, how do you think he would have answered you……… ROFL. Your fiction completely misses the mark. We don’t have to “guess” what God wants of us. He directly told us at Mount Sinai what He wants, we were all there. He gave His Laws directly to us. There is no ambiguity and no confusion for the Jew. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Sharon, I loved your comments, and I too believe that we will be judged each of us on our own otherwise whole religions would be destroyed because of a bad few ( including the JW's) they have bad people too as well as good.A person would have to be somewhat brainwashed to think that their religion was the only one saved.I do not want to be part of any religion that hides child abusers behind it's doors and has members that refuse to believe it even takes place. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.33.211 |
yaakov, however things have gotten a little complicated- what about the command to not kill? is it ok to kill if it is necessary- like at a time of war? | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.33.211 |
Zinn, how did things go in court? | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 320 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Luvliberty, the command is to not murder. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.224 |
yeah you are right- interestingly enough though in the King James and the american Standard it says thou shall not kill- another translation i have says murder- what do you think about that? | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Hey Luvliberty, nothing really interesting there. Most Christian bibles differ from each other. Translation errors are very common. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.215 |
yaakov, you were making the point that the command is not to murder ( in reply to my comment about not to kill- ) apparently you were trying to imply that there is a difference in the two translations and i find that highly interesting because if your interpretation is correct than the law does not apply in times of war but if the more popular translations are correct then the act of ending someones life despite the circumstances would be wrong- so ... it should interest us to know what the original meanings in Hebrew is to get the correct understanding- i am baffled by your statement that nothing of interest is in the variations- i took your previous comments to mean that one word can make a difference in the meaning | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 328 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Hi luvliberty I think we are having a difference of meaning in this topic. i am baffled by your statement that nothing of interest is in the variations- i took your previous comments to mean that one word can make a difference in the meaning You gave examples of Christian bibles. I meant that variations between Christian bibles are of no interest to me. Yall can have discussions between yourselves about that. Those variations are of no relevance to me. it should interest us to know what the original meanings in Hebrew is to get the correct understanding The only relevance to me is when Christian use their bibles and attempt to apply their meanings to the Jewish bible. Our religions have two different bibles. They only relate to each other in the most general way. We read our bibles in Hebrew to get the correct Jewish understanding. The Christian bible was originally written in Greek by persons unknown. The Hebrew meanings is irrelevant to the Christian bibles since it was never written in that language in the first place. (Only the five books of Moses were translated into Greek by the alleged seventy. They did it under duress and purposefully did a hatchet job on it.) yaakov, you were making the point that the command is not to murder apparently you were trying to imply that there is a difference in the two translations and i find that highly interesting because if your interpretation is correct than the law does not apply in times of war but if the more popular translations are correct then the act of ending someones life despite the circumstances would be wrong One word makes a huge difference in the meaning. Now above, you were talking about one of the ten sayings, You shall not murder. The Hebrew word for "murder" differs in meaning from the Hebrew word for "kill". The word "Kill" is much more general. Murder includes the premedated killing of another person, but also includes meanings that don't exist in English. One combatant killing another combatant in wartime does not fit under the definition of murder. In addition, killing a person in self-defense is also not murder. Also, if the Tanakh states a death sentence for certain crimes, then the jury that carries out the sentence is not committing murder. However, according to Judaism, rape is equivalent to murder. But if a man finds the betrothed girl in the field, and the man overpowers her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. Whereas to the girl, you shall do nothing the girl did not commit a sin deserving of death, for just as a man rises up against his fellow and murders him, so is this case. (Deut. 22:25-26) According to Judaism, gossip can be also equivalent to murder if it causes extreme embarrasement to a person. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.35.86 |
Thanks for the clarification on that - i think i understand your meaning - however, and i am not trying to be impertinent here but rather to educate myself more on the original writings- one of my Bibles- The New World Translation- incidentally, the one that interprets the command as using the word "murder" claims to have been translated from original manuscripts of Hebrew- could this be a valid claim or is it Bogus? | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 329 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
luvliberty Luvliberty, I do not want to be insulting either. I just don’t understand what you are looking for. Sure, you can compare some sentences from a Christian bible to some sentences in the Jewish bible and look for matches, but I am not sure of the point of it. We have two different religions that use different bibles. If I recall correctly, a modern Christian bible was compared to the Greek texts and about 26,000 differences were found. And the Greek Testament was already way different from the Hebrew bible. You can compare a Caterpillar bulldozer to a Harley-Davidson motorcycle and find that they both have a seat, but what does that prove? So, what do you mean, when you say I am trying to educate myself on the original writings. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.34.111 |
I only meant that even though I have a background in christianity I am exploring other religions and in fact am not sure that christianity is "the only way" as I have been told all my life- I was also trying to see what the real differences in the Torah? ( i am unsure of the word, sorry about that) and the first five books of the "bible" - i guess that is the problem with posts like this... it is hard for individuals to distinguish their intent- mine is a genuine desire for knowledge and understanding... i am in no way making any derogatory insinuations- i hope that this will be recieved in the manner in which i am trying to convey | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 331 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
You are conveying doubt, not "derogatory-ness". I am not sure what to tell you. Personally, I have always been Jewish. Though, I really didn't believe in God when I was younger and did almost nothing Jewish. For me, finding the beauty and meaning in my own religion was a revelation. I never seriously looked elsewhere. I know that Christianity is big into "believe our way or suffer an eternity of torment", same as Islam. However, Judaism doesn't have those concepts. I guess you can start on the internet and look for information about other religions. See if you find something compatible with your philosophy of life. Oh, I remember a long time ago, someone once asked me what religion I would be if I couldn't be Jewish. There was some website, where I answered a bunch of questions and a religious match came up. I got Buddhism and Unitarianism. I don't remember the site name, but you could look for it to give you a place to start. Good Luck! | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.181 |
thanks for the info! | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
For Sharon: Sorry for the belated "Thank you". I would like to reply to your comment, please e-mail me at: praetorian_g@hotmail.com Sorry I took so long to reply. Take care, Montana | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty, I'm just curious, but how long have you been out of the JW's ? I too would like to check out some other religions but I was so sure that the Jw's were the TRUTH when I got involved with them in my 20's & I am having trouble trusting in any religion. I studied with the Mormons years ago before I committed myself to the JW's, because I wanted to be sure I was following the right path,boy was I wrong.right now I find peace in yoga.Good luck with your own search, may God bless you & help you find what you need. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 136 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.253 |
marilyn_m, I have been away for about 6 years but began to have doubts about them 2 years before I actually stopped going- I know where you are coming from about having distrust of religion- I think the yoga is a good idea! I recently attended a church for about a year because I was dating someone who wished that I would go- well, personally I haven't seen that organized religion offers anything that I can't get on my own and in fact, the religions, IMO, get too involved in a persons personal life- also I celebrate every Sunday that I do not have to get up to go to a meeting! | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Amen to sleeping in on Sunday. I started having doubts about a year before I left, but as I said in my reply to you on another board, I think it was more than just doubt, I think that Gods spirit had left our cong. & I felt that. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
LUVLIBERTY!! It is a miracle. Just today someone sends me a link that is the very link that I referenced on my 4/25/05 post. Here is the 20 question quiz to see which religions align with your beliefs. Belief-O-Matic | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 139 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.35.227 |
Thanks Yaakov- I am going to check out the link right now- | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 140 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.35.227 |
Marilyn m, I think that the spirit was having mercy on me as well and letting me know that it is ok to not want to be affiliated with the hypocrisy any longer- I was just glad that i got the urge to leave right around the time my son was born so that he has not been subjected to the rigid lifestyle and the criticism that they hand out at the rate of a speeding train! If I can say that there was ever a bright side to being with them is that as irony to their efforts to create dependent followers, those of us who leave are fiercely independent in matters of religion and have vowed to never be duped again- i have learned enough about the Bible to make an informed to decision as to what someone is telling me in matters of religion- I guess our eyes have truly been opened and for that I am grateful- do you feel that too? | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty, yes I do. I think that for that time in my life that is where God wanted me to be, but the purpose for me being there has been filled & now it is time to move on to another step in my life.I believe that God puts stepping stones in front of us all through life & the JW's where just one of life ’s stepping stones. I learned a lot there and as I said before I am grateful for that but my eyes too have been spiritually opened & I can make up my own mind about what is right & wrong. It has been a learning experience to say the least. | ||
| marvi (marvi) New member Username: marvi Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 198.189.251.244 |
I am df'd, have been for about a month. personally i think that that tommy guy must be sick. If he goes on and on about how JW's ruined his life, then he must be afraid. I think deep inside he does believe that its the truth therefore all he can do is talk against them to make himself feel better. I think its pathetic. after everything thai've been through not once have i blamed anybody else for what i've done God gave us FREE WILL!!!!! Complaining about how sorry your life has been gets old and is tiring, you must not anything else to do, work on making it better instead of living in the past. People shouldn't judge a whole religion based on the mistakes of one person, i've came across people who really try their best in living according to what they learn, and those who don't. One thing that i don't like about my cogregation is gossip. I like reading and understanding other peoples' opinions and experiences thats why im here. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 152 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.9.33 |
which Tommy guy? and also isn't it understandable thar just because you seem unaffected by your disfellowshipping that others may take it pretty harshly? I mean if you are disfellowshipped you are considered to be worse than a man w/o faith and in present condition according to the JWS are not worthy of a resurrection if you died tomorrow. I can see why people might think that these doctrines coupled with being shunned by those nearest and dearest could have a real impact on someone. some df'd people have even committed suicide for feeling so down on themselves- is this really the kind of tool Jah would want used? | ||
| adonijah (adonijah) New member Username: adonijah Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.60.80.19 |
Hey LUVLIBERTY do you take your DISFELLOWSHIPPING harshly? or do you feel an injustice has been done to you?, if so, how does it effect your relationship with your God Jehovah? or are you attending a different religious organization? I'm not asking to judge you, as all judgement has been given to the Christ, I'm just curious. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 156 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.165 |
Did you read my post above? I have never been disfellowshipped-as explained above- and no, I am not attending another religious institution. | ||
| marvi (marvi) New member Username: marvi Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 198.189.251.74 |
Im not trying t say i wasn't affected by being df'd, it's all in ones relationship with God. All i was saying was that we shouldn't blame whatever has happened to us or whatever consequences we are getting on other people. I choose to do the things that possibly make me bad association, but i dnt go around making people imitate me. if i took me being df'd light ly was mainly because i had been preparing for it. I knew it was coming. everything i do know is up to my conscience i know the difference between ight and wrong, as we all do, it's common sense. Regardless of how many years we have been out or in Jehovah's organization or wether we agree or not to the teachings they always stay with us, for good or bad we will always have that knowledge I think it's creepy because sometimes i think about what im doing and i find no joy on the experience after something that was said in the meetings comes to mind. Luvliberty do you ever feel remorse or think back to what you were before? | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 158 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.250 |
what about those who have been sexually molested by elders? how was that their choice? I know of several persons who were sexually molested by elders and nothing happened to the elders! I am not blaming Jah but rather am choosing not to trust a group of men- jer. 10:23 | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 159 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.250 |
marvi, I can honestly say that I do not feel any remorse-I try to live life being as good a person to others as I can be- I know the witnesses say that is not enough but I trust Jah to read my heart and I hope that he approves of what he sees inside of my heart- one of the residual effects however, from being a JW(and this is a good thing) is that i have a knowledge of the scriptures that I otherwise would not have had- for that I am thankful! | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Anonymous, If you are god, how come you can't spell? I am pretty sure that God can spell. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Anonymous,Oh by the way, I would be VERY concerned about what God would think of someone calling them self GOD ! I think you are one sick individual. | ||
| bear (bear) Junior Member Username: bear Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 205.144.127.200 |
luvliberty, When a person leaves one organization and states "I am not trusting a group of men", there is bitterness. Even though we are all submitted to God, we must also be submitted to Men and Women of God; that is biblical. Abuses, etc, are in every organization. Those must be dealt with, but one must not give up on God. That is an excuse, an excuse that is deeply rooted in unforgivness. The scripture is clear that we are not to "forsake the gathering of ourselves together as is the custom of SOME". All of us need to be in a church under the direction of a Godly pastor, for this is biblical. Any excuse to not do this is just that, an excuse. That established belief system can not be backed up by any scripture. Yes, the Spirt will let you know that it is ok not to be associated with hypocricy, but he will not let you know that it is ok to not be associated with a body of true believers. I was once a JW and have since found out what true Christianity is. | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 139.127.189.218 |
Quote from Yaakov: “did I mention that i got baptised at the age of 10, unwillingly I am sure that you also unwillingly, were made to clean your room and eat your vegetables. So what? It is a parent’s right and responsibility to instruct their children in their religion.” Yaakov, I don’t think anyone is saying the baptism was illegal, nor is anyone saying parents don’t have a right to instruct their children. It is an important point though to recognize that it is against JW beliefs to force a child to get baptized. Consider the following: Watchtower April 1, 2002: p13, paragraph 17, 19 *** [Paragraph 17] …Jehovah's Witnesses never coerce anyone into baptism. Watchtower 1989 January 15 p.15 ...parents cannot make a dedication for their children...In 1914, C. T. Russell (then president of the Watch Tower Society) received a letter in which a fellow Christian asked if his 12-year-old son should be urged to make a dedication to God. "If I were you," Russell responded, "I would not press consecration [dedication] upon him… Yet coercion does take place in the form of parental directives and/or threats of death at Armageddon. (Message edited by rebel8 on May 31, 2005) | ||
| adonijah (adonijah) New member Username: adonijah Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.60.80.23 |
I can honestly say that I do not feel any remorse- I try to live life being as good a person to others as I can be- I know the witnesses say that is not enough but I trust Jah to read my heart YOU SAY THAT YOU TRUST JEHOVAH, BUT YOU DO NOT TRUST HIM ENOUGH TO PUNISH THOSE ELDERS WHO HAVE HIDDEN THERE CRIME. and I hope that he approves of what he sees inside of my heart- one of the residual effects however, from being a JW(and this is a good thing) is that i have a knowledge of the scriptures that I otherwise would not have had- for that I am thankful! BUT NOT THANKFULL ENOUGH TO LEAN UPON HIS UNDERSTANDING, RATHER THAN YOUR OWN. | ||
| adonijah (adonijah) New member Username: adonijah Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.60.80.254 |
what about those who have been sexually molested by elders? how was that their choice? I know of several persons who were sexually molested by elders and nothing happened to the elders! I am not blaming Jah but rather am choosing not to trust a group of men- jer. 10:23 I AGREE WITH YOU, THOSE ELDERS SHOULD BE PUNISHED BY THE LETTER OF THE (CESARS') LAW. BUT IF YOU THINK THAT THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH SOMETHING, THEN YOUR SADLY MISTAKEN, JEHOVAH WILL DEAL WITH THEM AT HIS DO TIME, NOT YOURS. AFTER ALL WERE WHERE YOU WHEN HE SET THE FOUNDATION OF EARTH? OR WHEN HE SET THE LIMITS AS TO HOW FAR THE OCEAN SHOULD COME INLAND, OR WHEN HE SET IN MOTION THE HEAVENLY BODIES? WHERE WERE YOU WHEN HE DECIDED TO CREATE MAN. YES THOSE WHO WERE MOLESTED BY THOSE ELDERS ARE VICTIMS OF A SERIOUS WRONG AND, "VENGENCE IS MINE" IS THE UTTERANCE OF JEHOVAH,"I SHALL REPAY". PLEASE BE PATIENT WITH JEHOVAH (BELIEVE ME, I KNOW HOW HARD THAT IS), BUT HE HAS NEVER FAILED US. GIVE HIM MORE TIME AND RETURN TO HIS PEOPLE, AFTER ALL, WE ARE DEFINITLY IMPERFECT, BUT WERE NOT ALL BAD. | ||
| adonijah (adonijah) New member Username: adonijah Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.60.80.254 |
I know the witnesses say that is not enough but I trust Jah to read my heart and I hope that he approves of what he sees inside of my heart HERE YOU SAY THAT "I know the witnesses say that is not enough" IF YOU READ THE SCRIPTURES, YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE, JEHOVAH SAY'S ITS NOT ENOUGH OF COURSE IF YOU TRULY KNEW THE SCRIPTURES, YOU WOULD KNOW THIS. TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE... | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 162 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.9.207 |
Adonijah, if you are still out there...the witnesses would have everyone believe that God is judging on the basis of what clothes we wear, how many hours have been spent in the "service", and a list too long to put on one post of other things but the Bible says we are forgiven thru Christ and also Paul said that everlasting life is a gift... in other words we do not earn our way thru hours spent eldering, preaching in the service or studying, etc. etc. There is nothing wrong with those things but God is not requiring us to keep the WTBS afloat by our financial contributions or thru numerous hours spent driving around knocking on doors and in general wasting a lot of time. Also... ever since leaving the JWs I have been able to discover myself and who I am so therefore now I am able to be true to myself. It was when I was in the JWs that there was pressure to be someone that I am not! | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Intermediate Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty ,I also have been able to discover myself and who I am since leaving the jw's. now I am free to worship God as the person I really am. the Bible says thatThe truth shall set you free and I have learned so many truths that I never knew before. Truths that the wt would not have allowed their members to know. | ||
| inkorrekt Intermediate Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 207.93.211.50 |
Elisa, My heart goes to you. God still loves you.This is nformation is for your boy friend. In the original Greek, there is diffrence between "a" and "the" The JW's have used "a" God instead of The God. I am sure you know your Bbible more than I do. In the old testament (Isaiah 53), Psalms and other books, thee are 66 predictions. They all predict the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, the Jehovah's Witnesses chose not to believe this. All these predictions have been fulfilled in the New Testament. Jesus is God Himself who came in the flesh as asacrifice for your and my sins. After He ressurrected, He left the Comforter, the Holy spirit to convict us of our sins,and live aHoly life pleasing to God. If you read the bible as awhole, you will find that God was and has been and will be. Then, He came as a man as a sacrifice for our sins. After resurrection, He went back to His Father. He has allowed the Holy Spirit to minister to us. COmpare and contrast JW's. The WatchTower Society predicted teh end of the world in 3 different predictions and all the three have failed. YOUR QUESTION to your friend: Which one do you want to believe? Bible which had 100% fulfillment of the predictions OR The JW whose predictions failed 100%. We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son], who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy christian apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. This universal prayer explains everything. elisa_emtg@hotmail.com . (boy friend going to JW) | ||
| inkorrekt Intermediate Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 207.93.211.50 |
Elisa, My heart goes to you. God still loves you.This is nformation is for your boy friend. In the original Greek, there is diffrence between "a" and "the" The JW's have used "a" God instead of The God. I am sure you know your Bbible more than I do. In the old testament (Isaiah 53), Psalms and other books, thee are 66 predictions. They all predict the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, the Jehovah's Witnesses chose not to believe this. All these predictions have been fulfilled in the New Testament. Jesus is God Himself who came in the flesh as asacrifice for your and my sins. After He ressurrected, He left the Comforter, the Holy spirit to convict us of our sins,and live aHoly life pleasing to God. If you read the bible as awhole, you will find that God was and has been and will be. Then, He came as a man as a sacrifice for our sins. After resurrection, He went back to His Father. He has allowed the Holy Spirit to minister to us. COmpare and contrast JW's. The WatchTower Society predicted teh end of the world in 3 different predictions and all the three have failed. YOUR QUESTION to your friend: Which one do you want to believe? Bible which had 100% fulfillment of the predictions OR The JW whose predictions failed 100%. We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son], who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy christian apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. This universal prayer explains everything. elisa_emtg@hotmail.com . (boy friend going to JW) |
