| Author | Message | ||
     fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 409 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.172.102 |
i couldn't find a place to post the news paper articles that i get on occasion so i started a thread. i thought that knowing what the media is saying could be helpful, whether positive or negative. it gives us a way to know some of the current events. http://www.poststar.com/story.asp?storyid=2024 | ||
| faye (faye) Member Username: faye Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 207.69.140.37 |
Thanks, FOK. I got that one from yahoo news in my mail box too... | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Junior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.168.65.103 |
FOF, thanks for the link. I just posted my 2 cents worth there... | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.172.102 |
your welcome. i ran into some problems though and deleted the post. i will try and get it all back as soon as i can but i am a little frustrated with it at the moment | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 449 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.172.102 |
http://artvoice.com here is the link for the paper that is all i have the patience for at the moment sorry | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 450 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.172.102 |
http://www.altpressonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=473 this is a link for a follow up article that he did | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 451 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.172.102 |
this is the link i was looking for. this is the original article. http://mediastudy.com/articles/av10-20-05.html i personally don't think this guy understands the things he is being told and therefore misrepresenting the tt. in the interest of fairness i will post them since i can respond to them on the original website. | ||
| hellohellohello (hellohellohello) Intermediate Member Username: hellohellohello Post Number: 401 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 69.86.104.21 |
nabashalam, I think the guy you called "Mr. Life" on the altpress page was in fact Visitor2000. | ||
| nabashalam (nabashalam) Junior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.168.65.103 |
I had that suspicion too... | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 691 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.139.150 |
this is an article that was printed by PFO (personal freedom outreach) in thier journal. http://www.pfo.org/com-belv.htm i was told that they are connected to factnet. it is interesting but not very well researched i am afraid. it covers the name issue (not sure it is accurate) and the idea of community as part of salvation. although i think community and the giving of posessions to the TT is not a matter of salvation, i do not think they represented the TT fairly on this one. it sites articles from TT publications, but it sounds more like they got thier info from factnet. (Message edited by fatherofaking on March 10, 2006) | ||
| anon_e_mus (anon_e_mus) Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 488 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 151.204.69.97 |
Very good article. Scriptural and fair. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 699 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.139.150 |
anon, what about the statement they made saying that the TT do not say outright that giving up all to the community is required for salvation but that it is implied in thier literature. do you think it is fair to make a statement like that? i think the TT would refute that statement. i know thier position on this matter and they are being misrepresented on this issue. | ||
| lookatall (lookatall) Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Hi, I think this is a fair statement, as when I met them at the B.G. crusade and examined their literature, that community was required for salvation was implied. Further a member directly stated to me that one must live in community to be saved. He also pointed out Mr Spriggs to me, whilst a string of at least 10 other people told me that they had no leader. (Perhaps he missed the days instructions, as he was asleep on the comfortable bus.) I also like the distinction in the articles regarding "friendliness" and "civility.' This particular person was very pleasant, much more pleasant and less guarded than the other members I had spoken to. | ||
| anon_e_mus (anon_e_mus) Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 493 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 151.204.69.97 |
"do you think it is fair to make a statement like that?" Yeah, I do, Father. I really do. Sorry if that upsets you, but I really do believe it's fair.  Here's why I consider it fair. I'll say it this way. If A=B and B=C, then it is fair to say that A=C. (I learned that in math, when I paid attention!) Here's how it plays out. If you have to live in community to be saved (Community=Salvation) and if you have to give up all your possessions to the community (Giving up possessions (to community in this case) = Community) --and-- If they are the only known community in the world where the gospel of salvation exists (Salvation Community = TT's), then yes, I think it's a fair statement. Okay, okay, so my math illustration is not entirely correct, you get the picture! If A=B and B=C and C=D, then A=D. Okay, there. I fixed my equation. Einstein would be proud of me! If Salvation=Community -and- Giving over all your possessions to the TT's = Community -and- Community = Twelve Tribes, then Salvation is attained by giving over your possessions to the Twelve Tribes. (Message edited by anon_e_mus on March 10, 2006) | ||
| schmuel (schmuel) Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 573 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, This could use its own thread. Anyway, Twelve Tribes is rather unclear as to their own praxis. While they state that one must give up all their possessions to be a disciple (based on using versions with a misttranslation of Luke 14:33) they allow themselves to have exceptions to the exegesis. This came up in a thread on another forum here. So that being the case, then one must separate out the two issues, being a part of apostolic community, and giving up all of ones possessions, since even the Twelve Tribes does not have that praxis. Shalom, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic | ||
| anon_e_mus (anon_e_mus) Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 495 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 151.204.69.97 |
praxis SCHMAXIS! What do you think of my Algebra? ;) | ||
| fatherofaking Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 843 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.139.150 |
they're headed your way naba. http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_83716.asp | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 525 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.36 |
makes me want to print some "Set my people Free" papers and do a little evangelizing! LOL! Im trying to get a few people from here to go to the "Open Forum". I know all the heavy hitters will be there. There are actually a few original members "Nucleus" there in Chattanooga who are "riding the fence" and entertaining the fact that they could be wrong in their claim of exclusivity.... Stay tuned... I also have a good mind to write the editor and have him print some of the "other side of the story". Im amazed that the article was so one sided and 90% of it was right out of their freepapers... | ||
| fatherofaking Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 853 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.139.150 |
http://www.cultnews.com/index.php/2006/04/17/will-chattanooga-be-happy-to-have-1970s-cult-back/ maybe you will like this side better naba. note the disclaimer. he must be concerned about slander, as well he should be. here is one that is a little more respectful. http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_83886.asp naba, did you go to the reunion? | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 539 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.43 |
No I didnt go but Im still hoping a few men from here go this weekend... Ive written the paper twice now. They still are being one sided... | ||
| john_s Member Username: john_s Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.254.220.97 |
--- (Gene Spriggs’ upcoming book, When the Spanking Stopped, All Hell Broke Loose, will tell the tale.) --- Is this a joke? Could this guy really be writing an entire book on the joys of spanking? And when has he EVER written anything under the name Gene Spriggs? Or even "Yoneq" for that matter? I also noticed in the offical, group authored article, they said something like "we are sometimes referred to as the Twelve Tribes Communities". No... You call YOURSELVES the Twelve Tribes! Do you think the above weirdness is an attempt to try and mainstream their image with average Americans? John | ||
| fatherofaking Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 864 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.139.150 |
i'm sorry john was that in the article somewhere? i went back over them but didn't see anything about a book. if you could point me in the right direction i would be happy to look at it. | ||
| john_s Member Username: john_s Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.254.219.170 |
End of the second paragraph down under header, "Local Government Joins Forces with Church". John | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 542 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.33 |
Am I blind too? In what article? Im not seeing it either! | ||
| john_s Member Username: john_s Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.254.219.169 |
Click on Fatherofaking's Friday, April 14th post link. Counting up from the end of the entire article, you'll find the line in question at the conclusion of the 11th paragraph. John S. | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 543 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.29 |
ok, got it. Now what do you suppose is the motivating factor there... Hmmmmm? I dont think its mainstreaming...more like smoke or just another example of them "Riding the beast" as they put it. Its amazing though that it seems that He is saying " please dont persecute us, we just spank like other folks and dont abuse our children!". Or is it to increase recruits? I suppose now that they are getting into mainstream corporate America with their HUGE"Cottage Industries" they need to polish up their public image. You may be right John... Thanks for catching that! | ||
| fatherofaking Advanced Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 877 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.139.150 |
thanks john. i was looking at the wrong article. i find it interesting but am unaware at this point of any book that has been published. i guess i will have to ask around about that one. | ||
| john_s Member Username: john_s Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.254.221.62 |
I have to say though, it was kind of refreshing to see a clear, current, color photo of the Super Apostle himself. Over the many years since I first discovered the Tribes, the only picture I EVER saw of the guy was that real old, dark grainy one that had him looking a bit like the devil. Or maybe Charlie Manson. Y'all know the one I mean? In that old one he was sort of frowning, but man, in this new one with the wife, the guy is BEAMING! John | ||
| john_s Member Username: john_s Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.254.221.62 |
Maybe that's what 30 years of being worshipped and obeyed unquestioningly by hundreds of people will do for a guy! :-) | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 1150 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.16.213.73 |
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2151809,00.html http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/08/06/article_was_true_to_twelve_tribes/ | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 1151 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.16.213.73 |
http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20060820-110518-3080r.htm | ||
| dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1180 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 72.224.174.173 |
Is there now a TT community in Cape Elizabeth? | ||
| researcher24 Junior Member Username: researcher24 Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 72.227.116.39 |
Strange. The Merrymakers said they would like to start a community in Portland, Maine, but didn't mention anyone living in Cape Elizabeth (a Portland suburb). I wonder if there is a household there, but not a community. Is there such a thing as a household outside the communities? If so, is it covered by a particular community? | ||
| chezikah New member Username: chezikah Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.63.101.137 |
Brother and Sister Team Busted In Bank Heists New York Daily News By Ernie Naspreto Daily News Police Bureau Tuesday, August 22, 2006 The family that robs together, gets caught together. A brother – and- sister bank – robbery team was busted yesterday after cops staked out a West Side methadone clinic, where the male half of the team was getting treatment, police said. Joe Kirby, 23, who is homeless, and his sister, Shemini, 20, of the Bronx, were charged with robbing at least three Manhattan bank branches this month. Cops were hunting for a male-and –female team – including a male suspect who resembled actor Ashton Kutcher – since bank surveillance footage showed them pulling off one of the heists at an Independence Bank branch on East 86th St. Sgt. Mike King and Detective William Carson of the 20th Precinct had a hunch the robbers might be drug addicts, so they staked out a methadone clinic on West 52nd St. and Ninth Ave. Within a few minutes they spotted a man who was a dead ringer for the suspect from the surveillance footage. “Sure enough, here comes our friend,” said a police source. “He comes walking out and within seconds he’s cuffed and in the back of their car.” Joe Kirby quickly agreed to help cops nab his sister, sources said. Shortly after his bust, he called Shemini Kirby and told her to show up for another bank robbery on West 57th St. Instead of easy cash, cops from the major case squad were waiting for her. The Kirby duo was charged with robbing the Independence branch, as well as a North Fork Bank and Commerce Bank branch, all during the second week of this month. In each heist, Joe Kirby allegedly passed threatening notes to tellers while Shemini waited outside. They fled with cash from each bank. | ||
| chezikah New member Username: chezikah Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.63.101.137 |
Brother and Sister Team Busted In Bank Heists New York Daily News By Ernie Naspreto Daily News Police Bureau Tuesday, August 22, 2006 The family that robs together, gets caught together. A brother – and- sister bank – robbery team was busted yesterday after cops staked out a West Side methadone clinic, where the male half of the team was getting treatment, police said. Joe Kirby, 23, who is homeless, and his sister, Shemini, 20, of the Bronx, were charged with robbing at least three Manhattan bank branches this month. Cops were hunting for a male-and –female team – including a male suspect who resembled actor Ashton Kutcher – since bank surveillance footage showed them pulling off one of the heists at an Independence Bank branch on East 86th St. Sgt. Mike King and Detective William Carson of the 20th Precinct had a hunch the robbers might be drug addicts, so they staked out a methadone clinic on West 52nd St. and Ninth Ave. Within a few minutes they spotted a man who was a dead ringer for the suspect from the surveillance footage. “Sure enough, here comes our friend,” said a police source. “He comes walking out and within seconds he’s cuffed and in the back of their car.” Joe Kirby quickly agreed to help cops nab his sister, sources said. Shortly after his bust, he called Shemini Kirby and told her to show up for another bank robbery on West 57th St. Instead of easy cash, cops from the major case squad were waiting for her. The Kirby duo was charged with robbing the Independence branch, as well as a North Fork Bank and Commerce Bank branch, all during the second week of this month. In each heist, Joe Kirby allegedly passed threatening notes to tellers while Shemini waited outside. They fled with cash from each bank. | ||
| chezikah New member Username: chezikah Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.63.101.137 |
‘Rob’ Sibs’ Agony New York Post John Doyle and Hasani Gittens August 23, 2006 – The brother and sister charged with a series of bank robberies in Manhattan have a strange and troubled history, The Post has learned. Joe Kirby, 23, and his sister, Shemini, 20, told friends that they spent their formative years being psychologically abused in a cult in the Catskills community of Monticello, where their mother and another brother live. “I don’t know him to be a bad person. I don’t know him to be a thief or anything like that. I just know he has a serious drug problem,” said a pal. The friend of Joe Kirby said the alleged bank robber referred to the strange “hyper-religious” group he grew up in only as “the Community” – and said it kept him in line by dolling out punishments like being locked in a closet or forced to stand naked in front of a group of adults. “It was a very Jim Jones, “hyper- religious kind of thing,” the friend said. “Joey called it a cult. He was raised in it; he was abused in it. Just extreme situations...nothing sexual, just humiliation.” Joe and Shemini Kirby escaped when they were adolescents and were put into foster care, the pal said. He said when they were teenagers, Joe started coming to New York City to go clubbing and got involved in the underground drug scene. Then, when he had to pay for his expensive habit, Kirby hit rock bottom. “For the last 18 months to two years, he has been working as a male prostitute, selling himself, sometimes for a very low amount of cash, to support his drug addiction,” the friend lamented. In Monticello, a former friend of Shemini, who wanted only her first name used, said the sister, who was arrested upstate in January for possession of crack, was just as disturbed. “She had a lot of issues. She’s been in and out of foster homes,” said Vivi, 26. “She had a daughter that was 8 weeks old that was taken away last year. She was just young and looking for attention.” But Vivi added, “She’s not going to rob no bank. Every once in a while, she might go to Wal-Mart and ‘pick up’ a chap stick, but she didn’t have the mentality to rob a bank.” Manhattan prosecutors disagree. They’ve charged the siblings with three counts of robbery each, for allegedly hitting an Independence Savings Bank on East 86th on Aug. 7, a North Fork Bank on Broadway on Aug. 10, and a Commerce Bank on Third Avenue on Aug. 15. They were arraigned separately last night. Shemini, who was clad in an orange jacket, white shirt and jeans, sobbed hysterically before making her court appearance. She was held in lieu of $50,000 bail. | ||
| chezikah New member Username: chezikah Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.63.101.137 |
‘Rob’ Sibs’ Agony New York Post John Doyle and Hasani Gittens August 23, 2006 – The brother and sister charged with a series of bank robberies in Manhattan have a strange and troubled history, The Post has learned. Joe Kirby, 23, and his sister, Shemini, 20, told friends that they spent their formative years being psychologically abused in a cult in the Catskills community of Monticello, where their mother and another brother live. “I don’t know him to be a bad person. I don’t know him to be a thief or anything like that. I just know he has a serious drug problem,” said a pal. The friend of Joe Kirby said the alleged bank robber referred to the strange “hyper-religious” group he grew up in only as “the Community” – and said it kept him in line by dolling out punishments like being locked in a closet or forced to stand naked in front of a group of adults. “It was a very Jim Jones, “hyper- religious kind of thing,” the friend said. “Joey called it a cult. He was raised in it; he was abused in it. Just extreme situations...nothing sexual, just humiliation.” Joe and Shemini Kirby escaped when they were adolescents and were put into foster care, the pal said. He said when they were teenagers, Joe started coming to New York City to go clubbing and got involved in the underground drug scene. Then, when he had to pay for his expensive habit, Kirby hit rock bottom. “For the last 18 months to two years, he has been working as a male prostitute, selling himself, sometimes for a very low amount of cash, to support his drug addiction,” the friend lamented. In Monticello, a former friend of Shemini, who wanted only her first name used, said the sister, who was arrested upstate in January for possession of crack, was just as disturbed. “She had a lot of issues. She’s been in and out of foster homes,” said Vivi, 26. “She had a daughter that was 8 weeks old that was taken away last year. She was just young and looking for attention.” But Vivi added, “She’s not going to rob no bank. Every once in a while, she might go to Wal-Mart and ‘pick up’ a chap stick, but she didn’t have the mentality to rob a bank.” Manhattan prosecutors disagree. They’ve charged the siblings with three counts of robbery each, for allegedly hitting an Independence Savings Bank on East 86th on Aug. 7, a North Fork Bank on Broadway on Aug. 10, and a Commerce Bank on Third Avenue on Aug. 15. They were arraigned separately last night. Shemini, who was clad in an orange jacket, white shirt and jeans, sobbed hysterically before making her court appearance. She was held in lieu of $50,000 bail. | ||
| shannon Member Username: shannon Post Number: 61 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 141.154.149.215 |
how incredibly sad. | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 1934 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.70.243 |
there seems to be a page missing here. if there is, and someone finds it let me know, i would like to read the rest. | ||
| nabashalam New member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.130.19.196 |
The Tribe of Asher down under... http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/general/the-great-escape/2007/04/12/1177180515573.html | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
The Suspect Spirituality Of The Twelve Tribes El Pais 12/31/2006 Mikel Ormazabal - San Sebastian This is how this group lives that emulates the first believers and does not educate their children so they can "maintain purity." In San Sebastian there lives a mysterious tribe on a farm on the high mountains of Ulia. It is a sanctuary of the twelve tribes in Spain, a spiritual organization whose members try to live in the manner of the first disciples of Messiah. They say to practice hospitality and to celebrate and to be warm and friendly and their arms are always open to receive visitors. Nevertheless, they close the door on newspaper reporters! "We don't want to talk to the press." "It is not important to us what they say about us. If someone wants to get to know us, they can look at our publications." This ends the testimony of a community member of San Sebastian who fails to provide his name. He has a thick beard, a pony tail that falls on the back and wears a leather belt inserted in the front. | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
The suspect spirituality - part 2 It is midday in this heavenly place of San Sebastian. The mansion-farm of the twelve tribes rises to the summit of Mount Ulia, an enclave separated from any large city - maybe there are neighbors in their immediate vicinity, or perhaps a winery and a Basque school. "It is a hidden treasure in the countryside where we can live in peace," say the occupants. The bearded young man prepared to leave the house in a Mercedes van. His companion cut tree trunks with an electric saw and various children ran about the property while inside the house they prepared for celebration, like they do every Friday night, the celebration of Shabbat or Sabbath. They live detached from reality and apparently an investigation initiated in France against the group uncovered the fact that they do not educate their children and that some describe the twelve tribes as a cult. We are a simple people, comprised of single people and families with children, large and small that live together in harmony and unity, in surroundings full of order, respect and human affection say their members. "I fell trapped because of the twelve tribes." "I knew them when they sold their products in a market in the town of Guipuzcoa." "They were so kind and nice, so generous..." "They seemed very nice." "They gave us cookies and a leaflet of theirs." "In a few days we were living in the Ulia house. We were accepted by the community and they baptized us by immersion, like long ago. | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
Thus began the new life of Ne'eman, an ex member of the twelve tribes. It is a fictitious identity because he does not want to be exposed by the organization, and his name is in Hebrew, because within the group everyone adopts a Hebrew name. His account of 5 plus years spent in the community is a series of regrets and remorse that always ends with the same exclamation: "How could I fall like this." "It is a cult of total rules and regulations because they alienate their members. You have no liberty to verbally express yourself, your subordinate 24 hours a day and you cannot question anything." "They live under a type of collective hypnosis that takes away their capacity to make decisions," assures Ne' eman. The twelve tribes communities are distributed all over the world. They have communities in the United States, Canada, Brazil, Germany, England, France and Australia. Their presence in Spain is reduced to a rural house in San Sebastian e Irun (Guipuzcoa) where 50 people live together according to two former members. The followers of the twelve tribes do not watch television, neither do they listen to the radio, not do they read newspapers. Their contact with the outside world is minimal. Unity is the sign of their identity. Their standard of life is inspired in Leviticus, one of the books of the Old Testament. They are devoted by the Jewish tradition, and seek to follow a tribal life like the first believers in Yahshua, including the type of clothing that they wore. They work from sun up to sundown, practice circumcision, and do not send their children to public schools. They are home schooled. Their members have an explanation on this matter: "We took our children out of public schools so we can home school them, because we realized that everything that we were doing was going to result in vain if we allowed our children to be influenced by the lack of respect and the immorality of the world." In their communities "nothing enters that is foreign or dirty or can contaminate them; they maintain purity." The boys work with their fathers in the countryside and the girls toil at sewing. Their family teaches them to read and write, basic mathematical rules, always trying to conserve intact the moral virginity of the youngsters. According to the testimony of several former members, the children are whipped with a balloon stick on the hand or on the buttocks because of disobedience or lack of respect toward their parents. The Education Department of the Basque government feels it is not its assignment to control these people (twelve tribes members) but since it is a matter of a few people, that today is here and tomorrow in another location in Spain or of the world. The educational authorities consider it impossible to introduce this group to the public educational system because of their void decision to integrate into society. A spokesman for the twelve tribes expressed it like this: "It can take letters in the matter? Yes, but.." | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
The final part of the article "the suspect spirituality of the twelve tribes" - Translated from the Spanish - Chezikah (Cheryl) The name Yadid is not the real name of the other former member of the twelve tribes when he fled from San Sebastian almost two years ago. "When you become a member, you leave behind what they call your old man. When they baptize you, you renounce all of your material possessions and whatever contact you may have with your family and friends." Little by little they immerse you in their ideology until they succeed in reprogramming your mind." "You are going to affect strongly your former life and develop a pseudo personality that allows you even to think and to act without liberty." "The internal functioning of the twelve tribes is a typical example of a cult. They insist that they are a brotherhood, but there is a religious leader in a position of authority perfectly established." "Underneath the outward appearance of a peaceful life dominates their fondness of ecology and biological nourishment, self sufficiency and spirituality which is hidden within a framework subtly designed to cancel the person," assures Yadid. "Hateful and jealous revenge are foreign to our form of life say the elders and the literature of the twelve tribes." In their unspoiled place of San Sebastian they have created a cottage industry to cultivate produce from their large vegetable garden and to produce pieces of artisan craftsmanship that they market in a business called Common Sense which they manage in a old section of the city. They conceal the number of persons who live in the community. The twelve tribes have little contact with their neighbors: they are peaceful and never have created a problem," says a woman who lives next door. The police have no evidence that they (the twelve tribes) have ever caused any incident. The attorney generals office of San Sebastian has not received any police reports, neither are there proceedings against members for refusing to send their children to public schools or practice circumcision, reports the chief public prosecutor of the provincial audience. | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
The Exit Door Mikel Ormazabal - San Sebastian El Pais 12/31/2006 Translated from the Spanish by Cheryl (AKA Chezikah) How could you leave the twelve tribes? "The majority does it at night and with external help, explains Yadai: In my case one day I arose early gathered my children and my wife and we left. "The best is to leave without telling them." "We put ourselves on the highway with flashy and showy clothing not knowing what would happen. He succeeded and received a lot of help from his family and he was able to regain his old job to come out ahead." In the other case, the escape was more traumatic. Ne'eman remembers that tribes members declared him as "rebellious." "I began to discuss many of the orders that were given to us." "In this phase of unruliness, I manged to obtain a book at home and I read it at night and I hid it putting it between the blankets of the bed. I was committing an offense. What horror!" This behavior forced your expulsion from the twelve tribes: "They threw me out. "I left alone without my wife or my children." "Several months after wards I became emboldened and I climbed Mount Ulia to see and hug my children." "Since I returned without permission, they reacted by putting us all in the street." "We left with 4 bags of rubbish full of old clothes, penniless. A little time later, his wife decided to return to the community, although the twelve tribes did not throw out the children because they lacked. His children did not yearn for the life which their mother followed, neither the kind bearded man that transports 8 varieties of bread in the Mercedes. The twelve tribes members do not think about participating in a religious community, but they desire to worship their Master Yahshua, the Hebrew name of Jesus, which means "God is powerful to save" and is formed from Yah (the name of the Father and Shua (Salvation). | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
Backs To The World Translated from the Spanish - Chezikah (AKA Cheryl) El Pais 11/24/2006 J.M. Marti Font - Paris Investigation in France concerning a cult which fails to educate their children. They do not cut their hair, they carry it collected in long ponytails. The followers of the Tabitha's Place cult, created in 1979 in the United States (Vermont) have as their objective to live like the first Christians. They grow their own food, they arise at dawn, do not drink, nor smoke, or watch television, nor listen to the radio or read anything besides the Bible. Neither do they send their children to public schools, but prefer to home school them, alien to the world around them and their applied corporal punishment. They reject advanced medical care and do not vaccinate their children. In 2001 two twelve tribes members were convicted to 12 years in prison because of the death of their son Raphael Ginhoux, a child that suffered from a congenital heart problem when the parents neglected him modern medical intervention. One of its communities took 23 years to establish itself in a country house in the small French locality of Sus- Navarrenx. This past Tuesday tribes members were the objects of a surprise visit from 4 representatives that form part of a parliamentary commission which investigates the situation of juveniles in the world of the cults. In France there are 60,000 juveniles in different degrees, who live, are educated and they grow under the influence of the cults, according to the Office of Interministerial Fight Against Aberrant Cults. They discovered as well that 18 juveniles with ages they understood to be between 6 and 16 years old were not sent to public school. Their parents take refuge in the French constitutional right which permits them to home school their children provided that at least formally they follow the public school program. | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.26.17 |
Backs to the world - part 2 The president of the commission, Georges Fenech, explained to the Parisian which had the feeling of being with "18 year old Natascha Kampusch," in reference to an Austrian youngster kidnapped when she was a child and that recently was able to escape from the hiding place where she was detained for eight years. According to the delegates that visited the community in Sus, the children know how to read "but they are not capable of explaining the sense of what they read," and ignore everything concerning the contemporary world. Of course twelve tribes children don't know what the Internet is, but neither the television nor the movies and only leave the physical surroundings of Sus when they accompany their parents to the markets to sell what they have grown. According to Fenech, the children don't even know who is Zidane. Nevertheless the large mansion that the members of Tabitha's Place occupy in Sus- Navarrenx is in front of the town hall and their doors are always open. The "elders of the tribe of Abraham" as it likes to be defined by the men who run this patriarchal structured community. They deny that they live with their backs to the world, they insist that they practice hospitality and that the whole world is welcome to their home to be bestowed with a piece of cake and mate (South American herbal tea). "We educate our children on track and in justice, according to the book of Genesis," explained Hushai Lesueur an elder and spokesman of the community. "We do not have any necessity to delegate our paternal authority to people who do not share our spiritual and educational convictions." Consequently, then censor school books. Neither a reference to the theory of evolution or to any other knowledge which can contradict the Scriptures. The twelve tribes cult supports itself by selling its products in the markets, honey, vegetables and birds. In no case do they sell pork. But their entry most importantly proceeds a furniture fabrication workshop of luxury garden furniture with prices between 2,000 and 3,000 euros each piece. And they do not consider themselves to be workers, but volunteers, because they do not value social security. |
