| Author | Message | ||
     hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 72 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 |
I'm interested to hear (read) what people think of David Barton or the Wallbuilders. www.wallbuilders.com | ||
| setfree (setfree) Intermediate Member Username: setfree Post Number: 206 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.86.101.65 |
He spoke at my former church a couple of times. I have been blessed and educated by his ministry. | ||
| cybermom (cybermom) Intermediate Member Username: cybermom Post Number: 301 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.186.102.112 |
He's very popular in home-schooling circles. He seems to be VERY conservative in his beliefs, ie courtship only (no dating), etc. I heard him speak a number of year ago, and enjoyed his presentation. But we were also a very conservative, homeschooling family at the time, so of course we'd agree. I haven't heard/read anything of his lately. Cybermom | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Not I , but what the seperationist say. http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/founding.htm | ||
| easeltine (easeltine) Advanced Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 613 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.136.27.225 |
Go to Wallbuilder's site and check out the quotations they have from the founding fathers. All of the quotes on the Wallbuilder's Internet Site from the founding fathers are carefully documented. | ||
| bachman New member Username: bachman Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.254.106.157 |
He's a republican -- that says it ALL! | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 663 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 165.236.235.130 |
Yes, With Democ"RATS" in power, 1) We will be attacked with nuclear weapons and we will do nothing 2) Our taxes will be raised 3) Law and order will be in disorder 4) Corruption will become unprecedented 5) US will lose its Sovereignity 6) The Socialists from UN will rule our country 7) You cannot protect yourself and your family with Guns as Guns will be confiscated from you 8) Borders will be kept open and all terrorists will have free access. 9) Homosexual marriages will be legalized 10) free speech will no more bew FREE 11) there will be no more religious liberty 12) We will all be fearful of everything 13) Our rightrs and freedom will be trampled and what more!!!!!! | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 664 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 165.236.235.130 |
Yes, With Democ"RATS" in power, 1) We will be attacked with nuclear weapons and we will do nothing 2) Our taxes will be raised 3) Law and order will be in disorder 4) Corruption will become unprecedented 5) US will lose its Sovereignity 6) The Socialists from UN will rule our country 7) You cannot protect yourself and your family with Guns as Guns will be confiscated from you 8) Borders will be kept open and all terrorists will have free access. 9) Homosexual marriages will be legalized 10) free speech will no more be FREE 11) there will be no more religious liberty 12) We will all be fearful of everything 13) Our rightrs and freedom will be trampled and what more!!!!!! | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 665 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 207.93.211.50 |
Who is a true historian? Democ"RAT" who selectively avoids the great men and women and rewrites Politically correct history? or a Republican who reports the events | ||
| granite Member Username: granite Post Number: 91 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 63.25.4.18 |
Anyone with a shred of confidence in the Democratic Party needs to read the new book, "Donkey Cons," by Lynn Vincent and Stacy McCain. www.donkeycons.com/ | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 737 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.101.217.189 |
It is a shame that most of the Americans do not know who we are and the birth of this great nation of USA. They have been only given the information that the Communist media wants people to have. Obviously history has been rewritten. Patriotism and love for this country have been portrayed as evil.If this is not true, then why is it that the baby boomers as well as the teenagers hate America? Even the patriotic american will be challenged if he keeps watching the ABC,NBC,CBS and CNN. They all inject antiamerican poison into the American minds. | ||
| frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 418 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
David Barton has been debunked. He is just another liar and a fraud. Many of the quotes that he uses are false. Most of the interpretations of the founding father's quotes are way off base. He ignores all of the things that these people said that do not fit his narrow and distorted view of history. Even if the founding fathers were all fundamentalists christians (which they were not) that still doesn't mean that we ought to establish some sort of loony xtian theocracy now. Nine of the first twelve presidents were slave holders, does that make slavery good? Things change, societies change, we can't establish archaic idiologies just because it fits some twisted political agenda of liars and frauds like David Barton. Here are some articles that contain examples of Barton's lies: http://members.tripod.com/~candst/boston1.htm http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/founding.htm http://www.frederickclarkson.com/2005_04_10_fredclarkson_archive.html http://positiveliberty.com/category/the-belfry/ Never mind that members of Barton's cult would never read these articles anyway. Truth is poison to cult members. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 745 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.15.1 |
FRANKENCHRIST: Allright you can pass laws banning christianity. Did you know that John Elton recently called for banning all religions? Well, you can ban everything except Islam. Try this and if you are lucky enough to survive, please let me know. No other religion is forcing you to convert Except Islam. Islam means SUBMISSION. You can ban Christianity. We are willing to die for our faith. If you attempt to ban Islam, first thing they will do is to CUT OFF YOUR HEAD as was done to FOX NEWS REPORTERS.Will you not be better of staying with Christianity?????? | ||
| frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 442 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
Inkorrect, good pony. You have jumped many fences and landed in a parking lot. The idea, that if one does not establish a Christian government then we will be taken over by Muslims, is what is called a false dichotomy. That is a logical fallacy. Read the articles that I provided. David Barton has been exposed as a liar and a fraud. Paranoid delusions about Muslims or Elton John have nothing to do with the fact that Barton has falsified, ignored, denied, altered, misquoted, misinterpreted, and lied about information in order to propogate his political agenda. Nobody who has any real influence on legal and governmental situataions or circumstances has any desire to 'ban' Christianity. I don't want to ban Christianity, I only want to be able to have the freedom to state a point of view to the contrary. I also respect the freeedom for others to do the same. I have a respect for the truth, which Barton and others have violated. I do not want to be told lies even if those lies are what I would like to hear, I only want truth. Look beyond paranoia and pursue only what is reality-based. If we have a good reason to be alarmed about people wanting to cut off our heads then we ought to respond. I fear that the greater threat of getting my head cut off comes from people like David Barton more than it does from some Ayotollah in the Middle-East. David Barton has been exposed. He is a liar and a fraud. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 790 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.101.217.33 |
FRANKENCHRIST: You can debunk everyone who does not agree with you. The question you will have to answer is where will you be after you die? How do you know that what you believe is true? FINALLY, WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG? | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 791 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.101.217.33 |
FRANKENCHRIST: You can debunk everyone who does not agree with you. The question you will have to answer is where will you be after you die? How do you know that what you believe is true? FINALLY, WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG? | ||
| frankenchrist Advanced Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 583 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.152.46 |
What you are doing is changing the subject. The fact of the matter is that David Barton has been proven to be a liar and a fraud. I provided links explaining that. What if the universe really is run by some sort of retarded tyrant as you claim? On the near-impossible chance that that really is the case I'll be glad to burn in hell knowing the I did not succumb to a piece of crap like the xtian god. Now you -- what if the Muslims are right and all xtians roast in hell? | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 804 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 71.33.133.241 |
No, Muslims have twisted history. Ismael was Sarah's illegitimate son. She and Abraham were too old. Sarah became impatient and asked Abraham to sleep with the maid HAgar. Her son was Ishmael. He never had the inheritance and all the goodies that come with the first born. But Koran has twisted it. Koran is based on the false hood. This means the middle east conflict has no end. Go ahead and follow Islam. Murder a Christain and 77 virgins will be waiting for you. That will be good for you unless you hate women. | ||
| frankenchrist Advanced Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 590 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.158.14 |
You didn't answer the question -- "We are right and they are wrong" is the same thing that every religion says. Repeat that over and over until you become brainwashed enough to actually believe that ludicrous bullshit. WAKE UP! | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 807 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.100.181.248 |
I will say that Christianity is right and everything else is wrong. I can prove it. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 808 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.100.181.248 |
I will say that Christianity is right and everything else is wrong. I can prove it.This is not true for Islam or Hinduism.They cannot prove it. If you ask them for proof, they go into circles. | ||
| frankenchrist Advanced Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 593 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.158.14 |
If you ever wake up Inko you will see that Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Anciant Greek Mythology, Shamanism, and all the other religions past, present and future all have exactly the same amount of evidence -- zero. That goes for xtianity too. No evidence, no proof, no real reason to believe it. You go in circles too,you just can't see it because you are immersed in it. Your so-called "proof" is based on the Bible, that is not evidence because it depends on the premise that the booble is some sort of divine truth, you can't prove that. So you go in circles. So, you still didn't answer the question -- hypothetically what if the Muslims are right and all xtians go to hell? | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 810 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 132.194.83.60 |
FRANKENCHRIST:Your counterpoint is mute. How? Jews of the past who lived around the first century AD, crucified Jesus. They hated Him. However, there were contemporary Jewish historians who gave an accurate description of the life of Jesus Christ. This is missing for Hinduism ans Islam. Besides this, there is archeological evidence too. | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 873 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
inkorrect, As I follow this, franken_ is right, you are totally evading his question. The fact that some Jewish writers acknowledge the existence of Jesus only gives evidence that he was a living person, nothing more. There are the same type of writings about the life of Mohammad, does that make him a prophet? You said, “Patriotism and love for this country have been portrayed as evil. If this is not true, then why is it that the baby boomers as well as the teenagers hate America?” This is a ridiculous statement. Totally absurd. Only the extreme obnoxious fundamentalists believe that kind of nonsense. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 814 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.100.181.248 |
BA2: I was exactly like you. Many years ago,I made exactly the same statements you are making now. I spent much time studying the claims of Jesus christ and compared them others.I discovered that I was dead wrong. Here is one difference. All other men lived, taught, died and disappeared. Their graves are still there. These empty tombs are still there and are being worshipped. Jesus's tomb is empty. He was not there. Why? He rose from the dead. They gave some directions (Do's and Don'ts) These were religious laws. Jesus gave none. Jesus lived a life no one could question. He was illegally charged, accused and brutally murdered. He rose again on the 3 rd day. Appeared before many who had seen Him and to those who never saw Him. Everyone said you had to do this and that to reach out to God. But, Jesus never gave any rules to follow. He is the only one who died for the entire world. Muhammed commands all his follwers to hate and murder Jews and christians. However, Jesus commanded his discipled even to LOVE those who hate them. | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 874 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
inkorrekt, I don't think you got my point. I simply said that writing about someone’s existence is evidence that they were a real person, it doesn't indicate anything else. Since you were talking about contemporary Jewish writers it is of less proof than a writing from the historical time. But nevertheless, a Jewish scholar researching the life of Jesus does add credibility to the existence of Jesus, but nothing more. Furthermore, there are very few graves remaining of anyone who lived in that era so not finding a body is proof of nothing and I am saying all of this as a Christian. There is written evidence that there indeed was a St Nick. Bishop Nicholas of Smyrna (Izmir), lived in what is now Turkey. Nicholas lived in the 4th century A.D. He was very rich, generous, and loving toward children. Often he gave joy to poor children by throwing gifts in through their windows every December. You won’t find his body anywhere. Does this prove that there indeed is a Santa Clause? You said, “Jesus never gave any rules to follow.” Here we disagree. He gave one, it was the commandment to love. All the law, he said, falls on love. This is what I believe we will be judged on, the golden rule. He also said, judge not lest ye be judged. So we create additional laws for ourselves by judging others, the exception he gave is that we can, and should judge the judgment of others. In other words, it is ok to say someone is too harsh in their judgmental attitudes. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 823 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.100.181.248 |
Jewish historian wrote an accurate account of the birth, life and death of Jesus christ. All it does is to add to the credibility and authenticity of the writings in the 4 gospels. Yes no one can deny that Love your neighbor as yourself is the greatest commandment. This is why christianity is unique that Jesus Christ died for no apparent reason(illegally accused and crucified expediously) though he never deserved it. He also rose again. Well, no one would die for a LIE. All the 12 men sho followed Him, saw the risen Christ and their lives were transformed. They saw their MAster and knew who He was. This transformation only allowed them even to be tortured and murdered for their faith. When I said Rules, what I meant was the regulations laid by Moses to follow. In today's world the perfect example is that of the Jehovah's witnesses who will refuse blood transfusion. They will not enlist in the military. They will not observe national holidays. They also will not pledge the Allegiance. Jeus never commanded His followers to obsertve these crazy RULES. But these were made by men. Bishop Nicholas lived and most of the Christians believe this. But, the media has buried this history and has substituted with Santa Claus. Christians are not responsible for this. Jesus commanded us not to Judge. Yes, it is true. However we are all commanded to Discern the Right from the Wrong: and the Good from the Evil. This scripture has been thoroughly abused by those who have perverted the Gospel by those who are selling it for money. Their only defence is DO NOT ACCUSE THE ANOINTED. Do not Judge them. Jesus also commanded the disciples to be aware of the False teachers. | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 897 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
inkorrekt you said, “Well, no one would die for a LIE. All the 12 men sho followed Him…” I somewhat agree with much of what you said, but this is just plain wrong. People die for lies all the time. Twin towers is just one huge example of the thousands out there. And about the 12, if all twelve continued to follow him with such zeal, why are their gospels omitted from the NT? You also said, “When I said Rules, what I meant was the regulations laid by Moses to follow…Jeus never commanded His followers to obsertve these crazy RULES. But these were made by men.” Yes, we are in agreement here. Many of the commands of Moses were his commands, not God’s. In some cases, I believe Moses told everyone they were God’s when they actually were determined himself. You said, “Bishop Nicholas lived and most of the Christians believe this. But, the media has buried this history and has substituted with Santa Claus.” True, but my point really had nothing to do with Nicholas or Santa Clause. I was only making, a point, probably poorly, that some Jewish writers acknowledging the existence of Jesus only gives evidence that he was a living person, nothing more. And the lack of a body from thousands of years ago means nothing. Finally, you said, “Jesus also commanded the disciples to be aware of the False teachers.” Yes, and they are very prevalent out there. Just about every so-called fundamental Church I walk into misses the whole point of the teachings of Jesus. It is so blatant, I wonder if they should be called something besides Christians. One thing we seem to be in total agreement on, Jesus commanded us to love and to refrain from judging. My fundamental church rarely does either of these two things. Personally, I think you can have many different cultural traditions, manners and lifestyles and still be Christian. Only two laws: love your neighbor (do unto others) and, refrain from judgment of others. Without doubt, Christianity brings in many practices and traditions of many other faiths and traditions but, I believe, as long as we keep the core elements of the faith (very few of them), this is not a problem. Example, birth of Jesus celebrated in December, even though this is a pagan tradition, no problem as long as you don’t criticize those who don’t celebrate that holiday. How about the cross on the wall or on top of the church, this pagan symbol was a symbol of horror by the early Christians and not you see it everywhere. Sunday was a sun god day of worship. To me, none of this matters, as long as we follow the two laws Jesus commanded. If we do that, everything will fall into place and everything will work out just fine. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 832 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.100.181.248 |
Yes very true. We have all been commanded to love one another.However, we have taken over His job which Jesus alone can do. That is, He is the only Judge. However, we have reversed these roles. Jesus also commanded us to Discern Right from Wrong and Good from the Evil. This is not Judgement. But this is Discernment.We all can and must pursue this. | ||
| frankenchrist Advanced Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 599 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.158.14 |
Pretending to believe in skweezuz -- and yes I do mean PRETENDING -- yes that's right PRENTENDING because we all know that you don't really believe that idotic crap -- nobody could possibly be stupid enough to believe moronic •••• like that. So don't even try to prove that that absolutely ridiculous garbage is actually real beacause all of us -- including the most ardent fundies know that it is just mythology. Let's take a first step Prove that you really believe it -- because I don't think you do. You get social benifits from pretending to belive that crap -- but you don't . There is no god and YOU KNOW IT!!!!! | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 851 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 130.253.32.155 |
FRANKENCHRIST: You cannot understand what I wrote. Only people who will understand and appreciate are those who have surrendered their lives to Christ. |
