| Author | Message | ||
     truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.28 |
Under Grace wrote the following statement, "I believe that the leadership and the members of HH have personal integrity and do not engage in immorality, drunkenness, child beating, incest etc. I believe they are kind and decent people. Though I have been gone from HH awhile there is rarely a day that goes by I do not miss people in HH." While I agree that not a day goes by that I don't miss my friends and loved ones in Homestead Heritage, I have to argue one thing. It took me a long time to be able to swallow and accept the fact that the men that I trusted as moral men because on the surface they lead what appeared to be moral lives, really were not. I make this statement based upon a number of FACTS. First, pertaining to child beatings, I have seen with my own eyes the holes in the walls and shattered ceiling light fixtures from HW chasing his children while beating them. I have heard BA stand and say that he spanked his seven-week-old baby! I have heard him teach that a baby is never to young to spank! GK covered and hid a member of HH from the law who was having incest with his 7 year old daughter. Then lied and said he didn't know it was wrong to keep it hidden,,,,,, after BD turned himself in and was sentenced to 8 years in prison, case # 04-7273. Didn't know? He's an Ex-cop! GL told me a certain girl had come to him many times claiming her mother was abusing her, but he took the word of the mother that she wasn't! One of the Elders told me his daughter was raped by another leaders son. The story went that one of Blair's sons didn't want to take the girls virginity, so he had one of the other leaders kid's rape her. Who got in trouble? The Girl did because "she put herself in the position to be raped". One Elders son had sex with a 14-year-old girl! Did her father do anything about it? No! Why? Because it was an elders son. Another girl was sexually assaulted by an Elders son, but when the parents began to make a big deal they were told it was God's will for the two to marry and so they were married against the girl's and her WHOLE families wishes. Believe me, I could go on all day long, but I dare not. The more I open this box of filth that I try to keep tucked away in my mind, the madder I get. I firmly believe that BA, HW, TY, GL, JS, GK and a few others to be immoral men based upon the fact that they hide ghastly sins and pass the blame on to the victim. To me they are as guilty as the perpetrators. | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 75 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
I do not believe that Truth_hunter even is able to tell the truth at this point. The above is untrue, more lies by someone who is under a powerful delusion. He will say "How do you know these things aren't true?" He will claim to have seen all of them first-hand, which is entirely ridiculous. However, I was there during and after the time Truth_hunter was there. I repeat, these things are LIES! The leadership of HH stood against ALL immorality, no matter who was the instigator. May God reveal the hearts of all of us who hold the truth in unrighteousness. As far as hiding sins go, Truth_hunter is as guilty as a man can be. May God help us all, Very Disturbed | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.28 |
"As far as hiding sins go, Truth_hunter is as guilty as a man can be." Please expound, I would love to know what grounds you feel you have to make this statement. | ||
| under_grace (under_grace) Junior Member Username: under_grace Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.153.236.197 |
TH, Those are powerful accusations. If are prepared to stand behind your statements as first hand knowledge that is one thing. If these are stories you have heard about second or third hand you are floating on quicksand. You stated to start your post you have seen with you own eyes holes in the wall and broken light fixtures. How about the other things you mentioned are those first hand knowledge as well? Under Grace | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.20 |
The incest is a matter of public record as is the statements of the Homestead leaders, I have a written statement by the abused girl, with witnesses to verify the bruises and scars, There is a document by the leaders son, bragging of the sex with the 14 year old, the sexual assault happened within my family, I don't have proof of the rape, I'm going on the testimony of the father of the girl and two of her brothers. I have the recorded conversation with GL saying the girl had come to him MANY times about the abuse yet did nothing because he took the word of the mother, the accused, over the victim. I hope this is satisfactory , if not, I will revise my post. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Pure Heart, What relationship do you have to this website? http://www.houreleven.org/verbalarson.php | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.25 |
Pure Heart, If you knew the truth and the danger of a place, would you let others walk into it with no warning? Would you hide anything? I hope not. | ||
| foreverhis (foreverhis) Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 79 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.23 |
I cautioned both RT and DO weeks ago in private e-mails or in a phone call, that by calling TH a "liar" and saying that it was "accusations," that they are asking for details as proof and that TH had it. I told them how rightfully upset TH was by the latest case of abuse and asked them not to press him to prove he wasn’t a liar. The names of the victims and the guilty parties have not been exposed. It would be good if some apologies could be given and further pressing stop. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 367 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
The following is a repost of Nimrod's Post ( truth_hunter ). I am reposting it in case his attorney advises him to remove it so that there is proof of his legal slanderous libel. truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.28 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:19 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Under Grace wrote the following statement, "I believe that the leadership and the members of HH have personal integrity and do not engage in immorality, drunkenness, child beating, incest etc. I believe they are kind and decent people. Though I have been gone from HH awhile there is rarely a day that goes by I do not miss people in HH." While I agree that not a day goes by that I don't miss my friends and loved ones in Homestead Heritage, I have to argue one thing. It took me a long time to be able to swallow and accept the fact that the men that I trusted as moral men because on the surface they lead what appeared to be moral lives, really were not. I make this statement based upon a number of FACTS. First, pertaining to child beatings, I have seen with my own eyes the holes in the walls and shattered ceiling light fixtures from HW chasing his children while beating them. I have heard BA stand and say that he spanked his seven-week-old baby! I have heard him teach that a baby is never to young to spank! GK covered and hid a member of HH from the law who was having incest with his 7 year old daughter. Then lied and said he didn't know it was wrong to keep it hidden,,,,,, after BD turned himself in and was sentenced to 8 years in prison, case # 04-7273. Didn't know? He's an Ex-cop! GL told me a certain girl had come to him many times claiming her mother was abusing her, but he took the word of the mother that she wasn't! One of the Elders told me his daughter was raped by another leaders son. The story went that one of Blair's sons didn't want to take the girls virginity, so he had one of the other leaders kid's rape her. Who got in trouble? The Girl did because "she put herself in the position to be raped". One Elders son had sex with a 14-year-old girl! Did her father do anything about it? No! Why? Because it was an elders son. Another girl was sexually assaulted by an Elders son, but when the parents began to make a big deal they were told it was God's will for the two to marry and so they were married against the girl's and her WHOLE families wishes. Believe me, I could go on all day long, but I dare not. The more I open this box of filth that I try to keep tucked away in my mind, the madder I get. I firmly believe that BA, HW, TY, GL, JS, GK and a few others to be immoral men based upon the fact that they hide ghastly sins and pass the blame on to the victim. To me they are as guilty as the perpetrators. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 368 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.20 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:59 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have the recorded conversation with GL saying the girl had come to him MANY times about the abuse yet did nothing because he took the word of the mother, the accused, over the victim. Dear Nimrod, I hope that was in accordance with Texas Law! Texas Penal Code § 16.02: So long as a wire, oral or electronic communication — including the radio portion of any cordless telephone call — is not recorded for a criminal or tortious purpose, anyone who is a party to the communication, or who has the consent of a party, can lawfully record the communication and disclose its contents. Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Texas Code Crim. Pro. Art. 18.20. Unlawful recording of a conversation, or disclosure of its contents with reason to know of the illegal interception, is a felony punishable by two to 20 years in prison and a fine not to exceed $10,000. Texas Penal Code § 12.33. A civil cause of action is expressly authorized for unlawful interception or disclosure. Texas Civ. Prac. & Rem. Code § 123.002. The plaintiff may be entitled to $10,000 for each occurrence, actual damages in excess of $10,000, punitive damages and attorney fees and costs. Texas Civ. Prac. & Rem. Code § 123.004. The U.S. Court of Appeals in New Orleans (5th Cir.) held in 2000 that a television station and reporter who had been given illegally obtained tapes of telephone conversations, but who had not participated in the illegal recording, could nonetheless be held civilly liable under the federal and Texas wiretapping statutes. Peavy v. WFAA-TV, Inc., 221 F.3d 158 (5th Cir. 2000). The case was appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court along with two other cases raising similar issues. The Supreme Court refused to hear the Texas case but decided in one of the other cases, Bartnicki v. Vopper, that media defendants could not be held liable for publishing information of public concern that was obtained unlawfully by a source where the media were blameless in the illegal interception. Following the Bartnicki decision, the parties in the Peavy case settled out of court. | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.24 |
" I am reposting it in case his attorney advises him to remove it so that there is proof of his legal slanderous libel." Slander is accusations that are false. Therefore what I have said is not slander. If the matter is pressed, a lot more will come out. | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.24 |
When I filed my reports with the sheriffs dept. they assured me I was doing nothing illegal. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 369 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
ForeverHis, take your threats back to your daddy, the devil. I don't cower at the foot of your minions. God have mercy. Pro 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.24 |
It is a wonder to me that so many are not concerned with the abuse of helpless victims, yet blow their top when criminals are exposed. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 370 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
You cannot state something about a person publicly unless it has been proven in a court of law: What is ‘defamation’? Defamation, sometimes called "defamation of character", is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation. If a person or the news media says or writes something about you that is understood to lower your reputation, or that keeps people from associating with you, defamation has occurred. Slander and libel are two forms of defamation. What is ‘slander’? Slander is a spoken defamation. What is ‘libel’? Libel is a written defamation. Generally, radio and television broadcasts that are defamatory are considered to be libel, rather than slander. Believe me, any attorney will instruct you that until such things are proven in a COURT OF LAW, NOT ON A COMMUNITY ONLINE, this constitutes libel. Go ask one.And quit trying to blackmail us into silence. ForeverHis, all you are doing is making it appear that the email you sent me that I have retained is deliberate blackmail. Are you sure you want to go this route? No regrets, Real truth | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 371 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
Here is a test for the mighty hunter: Truth Hunter, if what you say is true, let us attempt to make an appointment to visit these Elders and you may confront them, giving them the chance to answer. Perhaps you are too cowardly? Afraid of them, or me, or both? I will be willing to accompany you. Under that Biblical circumstance, I would even be willing to hear you out. No Regrets, real truth Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. (Message edited by real_truth on August 17, 2005) | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 372 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
Of course, after all the illegal slanderous libel and vicious attacks publicly, I would not blame them for refusing. But who knows? Maybe if you weren't such a little coward hiding behind these posts on the NET and actually confronted them according to Matthew 18, it could be resolved. It is a little hard to imagine though, considering the level of attack you have publicly brought. But it is worth a shot, rather than this illegal assault. (Message edited by real_truth on August 17, 2005) | ||
| under_grace (under_grace) Junior Member Username: under_grace Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.153.236.197 |
Truth Hunter, The seriousness of an accusation does not make it so. Neither does it make it a lie. All I was wanting you to do is to confirm you knew what you were talking about. You presented evidence. I know you Jeremy and I know your family. I do not believe you would lie or make things up. HH is a large group. There are things that are going to happen from shear numbers and size. However there can be no cover for the things you mentioned. Proverbs shows that God wields a two-edged sword and these things will not be left unattended. PR 17:15 Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent-- the LORD detests them both. Under Grace | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 162 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
un_truth, So, who's going to sue truth_hunter? You can't, you're not part of HH, remember? | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
un_truth, Please explain how a situation such as incest and child abuse being covered up would be resolved according to Matthew 18? | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 373 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
Veiled Blackmail? Please explain. truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.24 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 6:46 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the matter is pressed, a lot more will come out. From: "jersphotos@juno.com" <jersphotos@juno.com> Add to Address Book Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:16:34 GMT To: somebodyapostolic@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Factnet Question If you wake the dragon he will roar Jeremy Crow Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:51:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "chicory young" <formerhh@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: Factnet, my opinion To: "Somebody Apostolic" <somebodyapostolic@yahoo.com> You seem like a smart person... Truth Hunter seems so upset right now, that I wouldn't suggest you contact him until he gets over his initial anger about the recent case. Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "chicory young" <formerhh@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more Subject: Re: Factnet To: "Somebody Apostolic" <somebodyapostolic@yahoo.com> I want to be totally honest with you. ...Truth hunter could give names, dates, and details. He is so upset about the recent event involving the 20 year old that I am afraid that if pushed he will prove his point by giving these details. Then the press will show up and make things even worse.Hunter could prove them. foreverhis (foreverhis) Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 79 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.23 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 6:26 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I cautioned both RT and DO weeks ago in private e-mails or in a phone call, that by calling TH a "liar" and saying that it was "accusations," that they are asking for details as proof and that TH had it. I told them how rightfully upset TH was by the latest case of abuse and asked them not to press him to prove he wasn’t a liar. The names of the victims and the guilty parties have not been exposed. It would be good if some apologies could be given and further pressing stop. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 374 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
common sense, it isn't that that I am addressing, but Truth Hunter wants to attach all this to the elders of HH. His whole concept from the beginning is: "Homestead Leaders are NOT Moral!" But he pretends to attach guilt of all these accusations to them, even though he does not claim they commited most of it. That means he is accusing them of covering things up, a responsibility shirking, and it is this I suggest he address. No regrets, real_truth}} | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 76 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
John 8:42-48 42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." Romans 3:13-18 Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." 14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 15"Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16ruin and misery mark their ways, 17and the way of peace they do not know." 18"There is no fear of God before their eyes." Romans 16:17-18 17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Thessalonians 2:3-12 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. Jeremiah 14:14-16 Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. 15 Therefore, this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, 'No sword or famine will touch this land.' Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine. 16 And the people they are prophesying to will be thrown out into the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and sword. There will be no one to bury them or their wives, their sons or their daughters. I will pour out on them the calamity they deserve. As you read these scriptures may God convict your hearts of His truth. May God help us all, Very_disturbed | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 164 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
Blackmail involves extortion -- I don't see any evidence of that in the above. Covering up crimes against minors is more than "a responsibility shirking," it is a crime in and of itself. So, I ask again, how would that be "resolved" according to Matthew 18? | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 165 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
very_disturbed, You can cut-and-paste Scripture, but your point is......? | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 77 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
If you were given to understanding the Word of God, the answer to your question would be obvious. You are trying to intimidate me. I believe that perhaps God has convicted your heart of His truth. May God help us all, very_disturbed | ||
| foreverhis (foreverhis) Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.23 |
I have no control over Jeremy or the information, I didn't know any details and I provide you with none. It was just obvious by his posts he was upset. I have my e-mail too and I would be happy to provide it to the authorities if asked. Black mail???? Hmmmm. No way. I was a concerned sister making an observation and a plea because I didn't want to see it come to this and I thought it might be possible. I had no power to black mail you. I do not have the information and I have no control over it. You are deceiving yourself. It is also obvious that you are more concerned about the possibility of black mail, illegal slander, and recordings than you are about the victims of child abuse. I feel so sorry for you.  | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 133 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.188.240.71 |
This is so sad. Truth_Hunter has lost it. His thread title speaks of how the leaders of HH are not moral, yet where is the morality of dragging a family through this public shaming? Is it not possible that the leaders of HH tried to help this family through their difficult time by not publicly dragging them through the mud and slime of this type of arena? NIMROD, YOU ARE A MAN WITHOUT HONOR!!! | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 166 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
Come on, dowen, listen to yourself! If it is true that these despicable acts have been committed, the ones who expose them are to blame, not the criminals themselves?! That sounds like India where women are often ostracized after being raped while the rapist goes free! | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 134 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.188.240.71 |
The "despicable acts" have been previously dealt with, IN PRIVATE. Away from YOUR prying eyes. Nimrod is without honor because he is dragging these things out to further his vendetta. He is USING these poor families as props to help him further his own cause, a cause that will take him to the grave hopeless, unless he repents. Haven't these families been through enough already????? Why are you (all of you) shaming them in this way? Christians don't do this to other Christians! BTW, foreverhis, You trying to cast the blame for this horrendous debacle upon RT or myself is reprehensible. You should be ashamed of yourself. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
These "despicable acts" by their very nature CANNOT be handled in private. They are crimes against the State. There is absolutely no way that this can be legally handled in private. There has been a lot of "legalese" being thrown around. Those who are throwing it around should know this already. I hope that anyone who has proof of these allegations have already gone to the authorities. I believe that the laws protecting the innocent include mandatory disclosure of abuse to the authorities. Truth Hunter, you seem like a fine person. I would hate for you to get in trouble for knowing something that needs to be disclosed. I am earnestly praying for you all. This is serious stuff. | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.31 |
I would like to say one thing, I have held these things in from the very beginning of the Homestead Heritage thread here on Factnet, I did not want to expose the fruit of a false doctrine, but the false doctrine itself. But that has been very difficult with HH advocates that I don't need to list. I wrote many times that I have been full of regret for the things I helped cover, and the things I allowed to happen to my best friend, the pain is with me every day, I cannot escape it. I will not stand silently by while my young friends and loved ones are harmed in the ways I know that they are. I cannot live with more hurt and more pain knowing that I failed again. Once again I would like to state that I believe the crimes committed in HH are a direct result of their teachings and doctrine. I mean come on, if you were a kid who didn't know God for who he was, and you knew you could get away with anything because of who your dad was,,,,,,, I'll just say, I believe the guilt lies in their doctrine. | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 167 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
Dowen, How have they been "dealt with"? Are other potential victims being properly protected? Have the victims themselves been shamed or are they receiving the support needed? Who has done the "dealing"? What about the crime of not reporting child abuse to the proper authorities? | ||
| foreverhis (foreverhis) Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.23 |
Do, No I am not blaming you for this. I was hoping, just maybe, you two would apologize for calling him a liar and he would, just maybe, delete the post. I can see we are past that now. I am just as sad as you that it has come to this here. But I don't blame anyone except the perpetrators of the abuse. No brother, I am not blaming you. By the way, I love you. | ||
| truth_hunter (truth_hunter) Intermediate Member Username: truth_hunter Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.207.82.28 |
couldbe123, I have gone to the proper authorities, but I will not go into details. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Truth Hunter, That's fine. I dont need any details. My concern is for you. | ||
| foreverhis (foreverhis) Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.23 |
TH, May God strengthen you, help you, and protect you as you comfort and support the hurting. May he give you His wisdom and love in this time of need. You are truly carrying your cross by carrying this burden. With love | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 78 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
How does it "comfort and support the hurting" to post disgusting lies about people on the world wide web? Am I missing something? May God help us all, very_disturbed | ||
| common_sense (common_sense) Intermediate Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 168 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.128.248.104 |
Dowen said: The "despicable acts" have been previously dealt with, IN PRIVATE. very_disturbed, Dowen seems to have knowledge of these situations. Has he asserted that they are "disgusting lies"? | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 79 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
Romans 16:17-18 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. May God help those who truly desire His truth. May he make clear to them what is the "smooth talk and flattery" that the enemy uses to decieve us. May God help us all, Very disturbed Oh, and by the way, common sense, yes, this scripture was "copied and pasted" from above. Doesn't change the fact that it is the Word of God. | ||
| foreverhis (foreverhis) Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.23 |
<<<<<How does it "comfort and support the hurting" to post disgusting lies about people on the world wide web? Am I missing something? Yes, you are missing something. I wasn't talking about the posts here and if you have proof these are lies I would truly love to hear it. My heart is breaking for all concerned. (Message edited by foreverhis on August 17, 2005) | ||
| under_grace (under_grace) Junior Member Username: under_grace Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.153.236.197 |
RT, DO, PH, VD If what TH has posted is not true what does HH have to fear? I promise you going to the sheriff is not like going to Child Protection Services. With the sheriff or police you have to have proof before the DA will press charges. D.O you say..."The "despicable acts" have been previously dealt with, IN PRIVATE. Away from YOUR prying eyes. Nimrod is without honor because he is dragging these things out to further his vendetta." Can you say for certain the things TH posted did not happen? This can not be dealt with in private! If your sister had been raped by one of the Elders son would you still feel like things should be handled in private? Under Grace | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
What can Nimrod say for certain? He is real good at stretching the truth and twisting it to fit his agenda. He and others have jumped down my throat for "not actually being there", and "was I present during every confrontation?" Yet here he comes with all sorts of trash and presents it as fact. Some of his accusations may be true, I am not calling all of them lies, yet he that is without sin should cast the first stone. I don't think that TH is without sin. He is a hypcrite. And yes, he is without honor. | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
Truth_hunter's ambition is not to help and protect the innocent victims of the world. Truth_hunter's only goal is to hunt down and destroy HH, because he carries deep hate and resentment for what they stand for. I would like to address some of the allegations in his first post on this thread. First, I will say that I believe these things to be twisted, exaggerated stories, lies told by someone who is under a powerful delusion. He wonders why an alleged sexual crime committed to a young child was handled so privately. Does he realize that our state will not even print the name in public records of a child who has been abused. If this ever happened in any church, the appropriate thing would be for the perpertrator to turn himself in (Which even Truth_hunter admits happened). All individuals with any knowlege of the incident should hold their tongues. It would only cause more hurt to the family that was harmed to announce from the pulpit in gross detail what had happened. It seems to me that this is what Truth_hunter expects. Truth_hunter has lied and exaggerated the facts in the case he so unkindly posted on the world wide web. If the thing he alleges had happened to his own sister, would he appreciate public attention being brought to it? How would his sister like to go to church and be around her friends, knowing that they all knew a very painful thing? It would only hurt her more. Even our governnment knows better. And another thought. I don't believe Truth_hunter knows Him, but just over two thousand years ago, there was a man named Jesus here on earth. He was all man and all God. He was perfect. He was an example. Yet when he chose the 12 disciples, somehow one of them turned out to be a devil, a traitor. And Jesus certainly saw and knew everything, and mere men cannot see even a day ahead. If Jesus was in HH, after Judas betrayed him, I bet Truth_hunter would be saying "Look everyone, he hid and covered for a devil. He hung out with a traitor. Lets expose this Jesus's mistake." And Jesus also ministered to, ate with etc. prostitutes, demon possessed people, tax collectors, adulterers and the like. I suppose HH should not reach out to immoral young people, sinful sick adults, traitors, and so on. After all, Jesus did not come to help the well but the sick. Maybe where Truth_hunter goes to church, they all just sit there, basking in how spiritual, enlightened and perfect they are. Truth_hunter is a very deceptive liar. I am praying daily for all those who come to this site truly seeking the truth about HH. May God reveal His truth to you. May He speak to you as you read this. May His Holy Spirit reveal to you the true identity of this liar, and all his supporters. The Bible says this in John 8:44 regarding Truth_hunter and his followers: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. All those who lie are children of the Devil and they too, seek to destroy, murdering the truth and slandering its messengers. May God have mercy. May He reveal to us the areas where we have allowed ourselves to be decieved by the crafty lies of the Devil and his children. Do not lead us into temptation, but DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE, for Yours is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever....... All those who know the truth, please join me in praying that God will shine His light, even in this dark place, and have mercy on the souls of us all who are so decieved. And may God help us all, Very_disturbed (Message edited by very_disturbed on August 18, 2005) | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Dowen, You dont have to be sinless to expose sin. That's preposterous. You dont even believe that yourself--unless you think it is your own sinlessness that allows you to accuse the other posters on this board. I'll let you do your own word study on how God feels about those people in power who take advantage of those who are weak. The Scriptures are brimming with God's thoughts on that subject. If Truth Hunter's accusations are true--woe to him (in God's eyes) who does NOT expose it! I have no way of knowing if what Truth Hunter has exposed here is true--I'll leave that to the civil authorities who have jurisdiction over this. All I know is that he did the right thing by not keeping quiet about what he knows. You, however, have conceded in several posts that at least some of his accusations may be true. I assume that your concession is based on the fact that you are closer to the situation than someone like I am, and you have reason to believe at least some of what he says. Your main criticism of Truth Hunter seems to be that he exposed sin where he saw it. (Which has been your own stated intention many times as you have participated on this board.) If these accusations are true, how could anyone "stretch" them? Leave them unstretched. Let them stand as they occurred. Is there any justification for keeping such behavior hidden? The laws of our land mandate that someone guilty of these crimes continue to be tracked so unsuspecting parents can watch their children more carefully. If an accusation of this sort is true, a true Christian--one who is not hypocritical, and who is honorable--will want to protect the helpless. Both the State and God insist upon it. Dowen, I hope that what you have written this morning was written impulsively and does not express your true heart. Otherwise, I do fear for you. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Very disturbed, You said: "Truth_hunter's ambition is not to help and protect the innocent victims of the world. Truth_hunter's only goal is to hunt down and destroy HH, because he carries deep hate and resentment for what they stand for. "Truth_hunter's ambition is not to help and protect the innocent victims of the world. Truth_hunter's only goal is to hunt down and destroy HH, because he carries deep hate and resentment for what they stand for." QUESTION: How can you make this statement with such assurance? How can you possibly know what is in another man's heart? You said: " Does he realize that our state will not even print the name in public records of a child who has been abused." QUESTION: I cant find anywhere that anyone has revealed the name of any child who has been abused. I cant even find any names of abusers mentioned--only initials. To the person outside of HH, those initials mean nothing. I suppose those who have been in HH know them--but from what dowen has said, even the some of the accusations seem possible to him. So where is the shaming? You said: "I suppose HH should not reach out to immoral young people, sinful sick adults, traitors, and so on. After all, Jesus did not come to help the well but the sick. " QUESTION: I assume you are saying here that HH is following Jesus by ministering to sinners. Who are the sinners in this scenario? It appears you are saying that TH is lying about these incidents, that they did not occur. If that's the case, who are the sinners that need ministry? You said: "How would his sister like to go to church and be around her friends, knowing that they all knew a very painful thing? It would only hurt her more." QUESTION: Have you read anything about the post traumatic stress of an abuse victim? Everything I have read is that it is the cover up after the abuse that is the most damaging. The victim, in a supportive environment, can be counselled through the initial shame--because she has no reason to feel shame (unless, as has been stated in this case, she is told that it is HER FAULT). The wounds of having her experience minimized by being swept under the rug last far longer. You said: "I am praying daily for all those who come to this site truly seeking the truth about HH. May God reveal His truth to you. May He speak to you as you read this. May His Holy Spirit reveal to you the true identity of this liar, and all his supporters" QUESTION: Do you realize that your own posts are answering your own prayer? You and dowen and real truth have given the textbook responses of those people who enable this sort of abuse. Americans are so well educated these days about such issues, with all the media coverage of them, that your posts have warning lights flashing all over them. Add to that that all your previous posts have been supportive of HH and, true or not, you appear to be speaking for them. You can say all you want to that you are not--but this is an emotional issue for people and they arent going to see your denials. They are going to see that you are calling someone who has exposed possible child abuse (something that is considered heroic in our society) as a child of Satan. You have done far more than anyone else to warn readers to beware. Think about it. | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 136 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
Couldbe123, I care little about what you think of me. Fear for me all you like, I call on you to work out your OWN Salvation with fear and trembling, not mine. **************** I do care greatly for the Truth. I believe the Truth is alive and well, and that in the end it will always be the last one standing. I believe that the Truth in this matter is squarely behind VD, RT, PH, myself and several others. I believe with all of my heart that in the end our position will be proven to be right. I take my stand on the side of showing mercy to the families TH has mowed over to further his agenda. I choose to endeavor to show them the love of Jesus by not publishing their faults to the world. I choose to not jump on the bandwagon of hatred that the watchman fellowship has started rolling through my community. I choose to cry out against those who have no love for the truth, such as TH. I choose to extend forgiveness to those who have wronged me, or my family. Unlike TH. I choose to call a toad a toad, a lion a lion, and TH a bloodthirsty liar. I choose to not do the popular thing on this site, which is to betray former friends and family for the sake of bloodlust. I choose to love my neighbor, HH in this case. I choose to love the sinner, yet hate the sin. (Lord help me.) I choose to love my enemies, that goes for TH also. I consider him an enemy of Christianity. Yet by God's grace I endeavor to love him. Very_disturbed, Thank you for posting the Lord's prayer. I woke up this morning and that was my first thought, "deliver us from the evil one..." God bless you for your boldness and courage. *************************** Many have made thae claim that child abuse is rampant at HH, even enforced by the leadership. All I can say is I was never abused, period. I spent the most formative years of my life at HH. I was treated kindly by everyone who I came into contact with during those years, especially by the leadership. I have 5 siblings who are members of HH, they have never been abused, period. I have other family members that participate at HH, they have never been abused, period. Child abuse is NOT accepted at HH. If it happened, it was wrong and whomever commited it is NO LONGER a member of HH. TH's allegations are simply lies. He is a reproach. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
"I choose to not jump on the bandwagon of hatred that the watchman fellowship has started rolling through my community" Your community, Dowen? What community are you referring to? | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 137 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
What is it to? You are nothing more than a meddler, unless you prove me otherwise. From your writings here I see you as a busybody, and I don't desire to engage in pointless conversations with you. | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 138 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
I have zero respect for people that do as you have done. I hate to be rude to you but you have sided with those who desire to destroy a church. A church that my family attends, a church that is filled with good people. A church that does not deserve the labels that those you agree with have given them. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Dowen, You may think them "pointless", but my understanding is that the whole reason you are refuting the claims made on this board is to protect people like me--someone who is not an ex member of HH and just wants to hear the truth. Well, I'm hearing plenty, let me tell you. You cant have it both ways, Dowen. You cant dismiss people like Truth Hunter and others because they are ex members and "have an agenda" and also dismiss someone like me who is a truth hunter and wants to hear both sides of the story. If mine is a pointless conversation, what, exactly, IS the point? | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 375 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.68.15.79 |
The point here is that this board is not the channel to deal with these things. | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) New member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Dowen, I know you have zero respect for me. That's obvious. And absolutely the only thing that you know about me is that I have read every post on this board and, so far, am unconvinced by your position. So that tells me that all it would take to gain your respect is to agree with you. If I was looking for respect, I would not be looking for it on this board. I HAVE gotten quite an education though. I must be sheltered, but I didnt know, until I read yours, real truths and very disturb's posts that Christians spoke to one another like this. At least not since the Middle Ages. What I AM looking for is some lucid answers. So, I'll ask again: What community are you in that now has a "bandwagon of hate" rolling through it? | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) Junior Member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Real Truth, I have been careful in all my posts to address the person I am speaking to. I was asking Dowen about something that he wrote in one of his posts. Thanks for trying to answer the question, but it really was directed to him and was not a general question for the board. | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
I cannot convince you of my position because you have already made you mind up about what you believe in regard to HH. You are biased, I can tell by your responses to others post's. That is fine, do your thing, just don't try and stop me from doing what I feel I must. P.S. My "community" is just a few miles west of yours. Happy? (Message edited by dowen on August 18, 2005) | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) Junior Member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Dowen, Who's stopping you? Go for it. I doubt that your community is anywhere near mine. | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
All I can say is I am glad this thread has degenerated to this type of discussion. I wish "couldbe" had come along earlier... maybe none of us would be here right now. | ||
| dowen (dowen) Intermediate Member Username: dowen Post Number: 141 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.187 |
 | ||
| couldbe123 (couldbe123) Junior Member Username: couldbe123 Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 67.128.176.216 |
Oh, Dowen, You're so silly!  I came along when I did so you would lay off everybody else for awhile. And it worked famously. Thanks for fun. | ||
| very_disturbed (very_disturbed) Member Username: very_disturbed Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.27.7.241 |
Could be, I have given it much thought, and I stand by my answer. I do not speak for HH, I only speak from my heart what I know to be the truth. ..seeking to destroy, murdering the truth and slandering its messengers... I didn't expect anything different from those who constantly defend lies and slander. As I view these troubling things, I can only pray and beg God to have mercy on all who are so decieved. All day this prayer has been in my heart: Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen. May God's Word go forward, even in this terrible place, and may God help us all, Very_disturbed (Message edited by very_disturbed on August 18, 2005) | ||
| heralder (heralder) New member Username: heralder Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 63.224.157.14 |
micah 6:8 "He has showed you, o man, what is good. and what does God require of you? to act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." does anyone think God is impressed when plots, schemes, and manipulations are devised to protect an agenda? an agenda that could have only been birthed in the heart of someone whose primary "vision" is accomplished through devices designed to psychologically control many innocent and well meaning people. what does shame, belittling, and thinly veiled contempt accomplish towards these precious ones who have been solemnly created in the image of Almighty God? HE IS all knowing, completely wise, and forever perfect. THERE IS none that can stand in His stead. His glory shall vanquish His enemies with unprecedented fury. there are many different expressions of the adamic sin nature. one particularly heinous action is knowingly perpetrating evil upon HIS children. did someone ask who owns the children? ONLY JESUS. matthew 18:6 " but if ANYONE(emphasis) causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." isaiah 66:2 "this is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at My Word." | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1520 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.35.24 |
bump | ||
| seekingglory Member Username: seekingglory Post Number: 76 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.162.130.84 |
If anyone thinks Blair is about to walk away from his gravy train, you have flipped. He has a few hundred folks worshipping the ground he walks on. He has a maid, a cook, a teacher for his kids, gardeners, new vehicles, land in Oklahoma and Colorado to slip away to any time he desires and all his needs met 24 hours a day. He is not about to walk away from that. But this is where it really gets scary. Any person in charge that teaches people to hate is warped. Does Blair teach this? Let’s analyze. If you leave his church and then speak against him, you are disfellowshipped. That means they no longer consider you a Christian or a sister or brother. They, in effect, have, in their mind, condemned you to hell. One must hate someone to feel this way. No true Christian would feel this way. If some of your family leaves his church then you are instructed to forsake your family for his church. You are to no longer associate with these family members. Is this the thinking of an awful leader? If Blair wakes up one morning and decides his followers should no longer wear wedding rings, everyone takes their rings off. If Blair wakes up one morning and decides that everyone should not wear a watch then all will remove their watch. If Blair wakes up one morning and decides that everyone should shave their head then I guarantee all members will race to find a razor. So to you who are looking.......WARNING........ Know what you are about to get involved with. Those already in are so programmed they can’t see the truth. Hopefully some drastic event will shake them up enough to run free. Their eternity is at risk | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 777 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
The idea that HH teaches anybody to hate is another lie, with a blasphemous tinge. There are folks here who will twist almost anything in their own darkness. For many years outside of HH, yes without a great deal of communication, I was always treated with friendship and respect... and much more .. every time a contact was made, however it was initiated, and to either friends or ministry folks. Now perhaps there is a difference. I made a real effort to avoid twisting and self-rationalizing and putting a psychobabble front over my experiences at HH. And I am not belittling anybodies experiences, or saying that this other persons situation is identical and should be easy or not. Or that any separations from friends or family is easy. Not at all. I will say that trying to play semantic games as above to falsely accuse is sad and can only bring forth bitter fruit. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| nevermind_me New member Username: nevermind_me Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.10 |
my fingers will cramp and i will die of hunger if i reply to every thing seekin glory typed but i will answer one of them lets see the one were its stated that they disfellowship those who speak against him . that is untrue as i have been disfellowshiped as i wanted to do my own thing not live by there beliefs not because i was speaking against the leadership if that was the case one would think that my defense of them would have earned me a new membership but thats not what HH is about there in my understanding are about serving GOD and each other before yourself thats in my belief why yall have such a hard time with them because its not easy to die to ones self and take up the cross daily and to think you may have to submit to someone besides yourself who loves and cares for you now thats a scary thought they must be crazy you say well are speed limits crazy? is the idea of goverment crazy? is Jesus and the bible crazy? there are things in our lives we must submit to not all are fun but the countries we live in all have such things the only differance with HH and any church is that it is voluntary you can leave at anytime . i did im still here and im not shunned by every one like you say yes its different our relationship but that was my choosing i still eat dinner with my folks who are still part of HH its just not as yall say it is and why i wonder would yall want to make things up? why as Godly people as yall claim to be would you want to destroy others i would like to see a scripture and not one out of context that says what yall are doing is of God!!!! | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1556 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.99.45 |
You probably represent no danger to them................your posts caused me to come to that conclusion... | ||
| nevermind_me New member Username: nevermind_me Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.10 |
lol hmmm why would they think i represent no danger to them at the time than i left than anyone else? the point is ist not about who scares them they dont care about those things they are trying to help people like you and me on to the happy hunting grounds! | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1565 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.53.18 |
They would be afraid of those that can expose them... | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 398 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
i have been disfellowshiped as i wanted to do my own thing not live by there beliefs No you have not been dis-fellowshipped if you are still allowed to fellowship with members. You have been disassociated, which means you are not associated as a member. There is a BIG difference. People who are dis-fellowshipped are shunned. One big difference is whether or not you were ever a "member". Children who leave but have never taken the vow and broken it were never members to begin with; sometimes they have been given mercy, (though that has not always been the case.) Part of it has to do with who your family is. i did im still here and im not shunned by every one like you say yes its different our relationship but that was my choosing i still eat dinner with my folks who are still part of HH I hope you can tell me that your family is not elders. That would be good news!!!!! I had heard that some of the elders get to have their family, who left, over for dinner. It would be NEW news to me if normal members got to do the same thing with ex-"members" who are in their family. Waiting for good news... FH | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1570 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.97.132 |
and let us know if you had a signed vow with HH?? | ||
| dowen Advanced Member Username: dowen Post Number: 818 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Hello NevermindMe, Welcome. I see you have already endured a few rounds in the ring known as FACTNet. Congratulations. You will find that the longer you hang around, the more you will be battered and assaulted by the mis-named Hunters, Resters, "Missionaries" and Watchman. Just keep on keeping on my friend. These folks must keep posting their silly conspiracy theories because that is the only thing that will salve their tormented consciences. They will do their best to discredit you and smear you. They will call you names. They will tell you "shut up". They mock you. They will laugh at you. And in the end, they will fall flat on their faces. Truth is Truth. You, and many others, know that these disaffected railing accusers do not have Truth on their side. All these guys have is a bunch of wild emotions that Philip Arnn (OldWatchman) and his henchmen at Watchman Fellowship have stirred up and planted within them. ------------------------------------------------- GlorySeeker, Like NeverMind said, if I took the time to respond to all of your ranting, my fingers would cramp and I would die of hunger. There is one thing I would like to respond to though. You asked us to "analyze", so let's analyze. You said; "If you leave his (Brother Adams') [C]hurch and then speak against him, you are disfellowshipped." First of all, HH is no more Bro. Adams' Church than Highland Baptist is Bro. Camp's Church. "Church" is the Christian's who assemble in Jesus' Name, not the building that houses them when they do it. Second, since we are "analyzing" I must point out that if one leaves a Church, any Church, then that Church simply doesn't have any authority over him. You can't remove someone from a community that isn't a part of the community. You can't divorce someone you aren't married to. Lastly, there are many who have left HH and spoke ill of them. Myself included. Those people were never "disfellowshiped" (as if that were even possible). So, even if HH could punish someone not affiliated with them, (a ludicrous idea), they have not done it. You have been caught in a lie GlorySearcher. It is stupid little comments like that one which cost you any credibility you may have once had. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 402 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
Second, since we are "analyzing" I must point out that if one leaves a Church, any Church, then that Church simply doesn't have any authority over him. You can't remove someone from a community that isn't a part of the community. You can't divorce someone you aren't married to. Lastly, there are many who have left HH and spoke ill of them. Myself included. Those people were never "disfellowshiped" (as if that were even possible). So, even if HH could punish someone not affiliated with them, (a ludicrous idea), they have not done it. What a spin on the HH term "disfellowship"!!! It is like Bill Clinton's excuse when he got caught... "It depends on what your definition of "is" is... they have not done it That is an out right lie, your spin does not cover for it. Can you say that people have not been disfellowshiped????? Then why would the word even be in HH's vocabulary? "Dis-fellowship is a word I learned while in Homestead. It meant "having nothing to do with...." it is shunning plain and simple. Are you telling us they don't use that word to dicribe their punishing method. They call around on their phone tree, or announce at a meeting, and say so and so has been dis-fellowshipped...We all knew what that meant. It meant I couldn't talk to my friends who left! I couldn't even send a thank you card when a friend who left remembered my birthday. A leader said not to because they "divorced" us when they left. Someone could leave HH and just be "disassociated" if they left peacefully, and then later be "dis-fellowshipped" if the spoke out. Disassociated meant they were not members, dis- fellowshipped meant have nothing to do with them. When they told us to leave because we didn't agree on the biblical standing of their doctrines they gave us a choice to disassociate ourselves or be dis-fellowshipped. We chose to leave voluntarily, we were most likely going to anyway. But they warned us not to say anything or we would still be dis-fellowshipped. At first we didn't say anything... I wanted to stay friends with those I had grown close to. Usually when people leave a church they don't loose all their friendships inside. But we all know that is didferent in HH. No one called me anymore. I went to see a few and was not welcomed into their homes. At least they could talk to me outside when I approached them first. Had I been dis-fellowshipped that would not have been the case. DOwen, you know you are one of a few exceptions. Can you imagine what your relatives, who are so widely respected in the Waco community, would say and do if your parents and friends had to treat you the way they treat others? They can get away with shunning one of your best friends just for leaving and not even letting him see his brothers and sisters, but they would never get away with treating you like that. Count your blessings... to be related to who you are. Count it a blessing that you never took the oaths either. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 403 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
In fact one young man asked them why he was dis-fellowshipped and you are not. He was told it is because he was born in HH and should know better. So there is another blessing to count. | ||
| dowen Advanced Member Username: dowen Post Number: 819 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Robin, Here you go yet again, spinning weaving and slashing your way through these threads. Maybe I wasn't clear enough earlier, but surely you are not that dense. If someone leaves HH, or any other Church, they they cannot be dis-fellowshipped. They have left. They have made the separation themselves. Whatever Church they left has no power over them. If an individual wanted to be an active member of HH, yet live a lifestyle at odds with HH, then there would be a case for dis-fellowshipping or dis-association. In the accusation that GloryHunter made above, the supposedly "dis-fellowshipped" person had already parted ways with HH. Now, moving on to a much more serious issue, you said; "Can you imagine what your relatives, who are so widely respected in the Waco community, would say and do if your parents and friends had to treat you the way they treat others?" I simply cannot find the words to describe my disgust with that quote. How dare you Robin. How dare you sit at your computer, a thousand miles away, and cast doubts on the integrity of my parents and family. How dare you presume to know diddly about circumstances surrounding my relationship with my family. How dare you sit in your self appointed throne of judgement and correction of HH. How dare you! You know absolutely NOTHING about what you are talking about! And yet you feign some kind of perverted sweetness and a weird desire to "Help those poor damn Nazis". How dare you! All you have to go by is dusty old memories and second or third hand gossip, and that somehow makes you an expert. Sheesh. | ||
| common_sense Advanced Member Username: common_sense Post Number: 964 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.127.85.141 |
Methinks thou dost protest too much. | ||
| dowen Advanced Member Username: dowen Post Number: 820 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Methinks thou art inserting thine nose into another's affair. Wilt thou graciously withdraw it? | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 404 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
If someone leaves HH, or any other Church, they cannot be dis-fellowshipped. They have left. They have made the separation themselves. Whatever Church they left has no power over them. No, this "church" has the power over their friends and family still in HH; to keep their friend's and family from "fellowshipping" with them. Dis-fellowshipping for HH isn't just putting them out of the church, it is shunning. It can be done to people who have already left. In HH the two term "disassociated" and "dis-fellowshipped" were clearly defined and the difference was made pefectly known. Dis-fellowshipped is beyond disassociated. You can be disassociated and not dis-fellowshipped, (shunned.) In your head you are saying the common HH spin, they left the group, so they separated themselves. Again, usually a person can leave a real church and still carry on the same relationship with their friends and family still in the church. I had received messages, (that the ADULTS in HH get,) saying so and so has been dis-fellowshipped. I really don't think you are denying this. You are just putting the blame on the person who left instead of the group. Kinda.. they new it would happen... and they left anyway... it was their choice...so "in a way" they dis-fellowshipped themselves. No one “chooses” to be shunned. They may have to CHOOSE BETWEEN going on with God and being shunned by those they love in HH. Thabks to HH. Oh there are some who will still talk to you if they run into you somewhere, but most of them will avoid it due to HH patterns and fears. If the members have gotten the message that the person was “dis-fellowshipped,” obedience to HH authority will most likely win over the love between the two people and their God given conscience. (Message edited by foreverhis on December 30, 2006) | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 405 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
All you have to go by is dusty old memories and second or third hand gossip... My memmory is sharper then you wish. Engrained fear is hard to forget. Being told you can not have anything to do with your dearest friend who left is hard to forget! Second and third hand Gossip??? You are just fishing, wanting to know if the young man told me himself... I won't give you the benifit of knowing. But believe me I know. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1574 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.93.116 |
Would anyone call such a setup a "church"??????????? | ||
| dowen Advanced Member Username: dowen Post Number: 821 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Sigh. I find it amazing how a tiny bit of bias can so saturate, and soil, one's opinion of a matter. Robin has nurtured and worshiped her petty little grievances for so long that even when a simple truth, or chink in her beloved idol of victimization, is pointed out, she can't acknowldege it and move on. No, she must defend her position at all costs. For without it, she would have nothing. In this case, I somehow don't think Robin is entirely to blame for her rash defense of so simple an error. The one to blame, IMHO, is the false "Watchman". It is he that has rallied her and her fellow villagers on their current witch hunt. It is he that has so deviously supplied this gang we see on FN with pitchforks and torches. It is he that is feverishly building gallows and stakes at which to burn and hang HH. It is he that has convinced Robin and her gang of their victimhood. It is he that is preparing the scarlet letters, in hopes of HH someday wearing them. It is he that is prowling about the town hall, trying to turn the local potentates against HH. It is he that is playing the part of Judas with Mrs. Alvear, convincing her that he is on her side, while secretly plotting her demise. ForeverHis, TruthHunter, MissionaryLady, UnderGrace, GlorySeeker, CommonSense/JustCurious etc. etc. are just expendable pawns to him. He is using them to sharpen his instruments of war, but when the time comes, he will undoubtedly turn those same instruments of evil against them. The anti cult movement is an ever consuming fire, that eventually MUST consume even itself. Robin and her friends should be pitied, because by allying themselves with wolves like Watchman Fellowship, they are only helping to erect the very gallows that Phillip Arnn and his evil crew are plotting to hang them from. The anti-cult movement is nothing more than a modern day reincarnation of the evils of the Catholic Inquisitions. The Roman Church no longer needs their hooded executioners, for they now have Arnn, Walker, and their evil ilk to do the dirty work for them. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1575 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.93.116 |
Truth hunter wrote: I make this statement based upon a number of FACTS. First, pertaining to child beatings, I have seen with my own eyes the holes in the walls and shattered ceiling light fixtures from HW chasing his children while beating them. I have heard BA stand and say that he spanked his seven-week-old baby! I have heard him teach that a baby is never to young to spank! GK covered and hid a member of HH from the law who was having incest with his 7 year old daughter. Then lied and said he didn't know it was wrong to keep it hidden,,,,,, after BD turned himself in and was sentenced to 8 years in prison, case # 04-7273. Didn't know? He's an Ex-cop! GL told me a certain girl had come to him many times claiming her mother was abusing her, but he took the word of the mother that she wasn't! One of the Elders told me his daughter was raped by another leaders son. The story went that one of Blair's sons didn't want to take the girls virginity, so he had one of the other leaders kid's rape her. Who got in trouble? The Girl did because "she put herself in the position to be raped". One Elders son had sex with a 14-year-old girl! Did her father do anything about it? No! Why? Because it was an elders son. Another girl was sexually assaulted by an Elders son, but when the parents began to make a big deal they were told it was God's will for the two to marry and so they were married against the girl's and her WHOLE families wishes. Believe me, I could go on all day long, but I dare not. The more I open this box of filth that I try to keep tucked away in my mind, the madder I get. I firmly believe that BA, HW, TY, GL, JS, GK and a few others to be immoral men based upon the fact that they hide ghastly sins and pass the blame on to the victim. To me they are as guilty as the perpetrators. Does this sound like a normal place? | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 406 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
How dare you sit at your computer, a thousand miles away, and cast doubts on the integrity of my parents and family. I would never want to cast doubt on your family’s integrity. They are good people. I don’t see how what I said has anything to do with THEIR integrity. I do not think my saying they are “widely respected in the Waco community,” cast anything negative; Quite to the contrary. Forgive me if I have in any way suggested that their integrity was lacking in this. How dare you sit in your self appointed throne of judgement and correction of HH. How dare you! “How dare I even disagree with them! I am just a scumbag and they are anointed.” Been there done that, seven years, should have a T-shirt…. I do not Judge them. I just stated some facts about dis-fellowshipping and asked YOU a question. God will judge them for what they are doing. He will judge me… and you. I leave that to God. Was I suggesting that with HH it is different strokes for different folks? Yes, I will own that one. Sometimes circumstances justify it: sometimes they don’t. Whether or not they are justified in doing what they have done to the others, I will leave that up to God. But it doesn’t make it any less true. Now, moving on to a much more serious issue, you said; "Can you imagine what your relatives, who are so widely respected in the Waco community, would say and do if your parents and friends had to treat you the way they treat others?" I simply cannot find the words to describe my disgust with that quote. How dare you Robin. It is a simple question. Ask yourself: How do you feel about the answer? They are good people, and I doubt they would ever stand for you to be treated poorly. They would stand up for you, and THEY could. I wish the others had family that could. Now I am not going to go any further with this, out of respect for your family. You mentioned your continued relationship with them. I was just continuing on the subject. I want you to know I would not ever say anything bad about your family. As much as you hate to see me say it: I love your family dearly. I have prayed for them more than any other I left behind. Never curses… always blessings... lots of them. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1576 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.91.122 |
dowen said: I find it amazing how a tiny bit of bias can so saturate, and soil, one's opinion of a matter. Robin has nurtured and worshiped her petty little grievances for so long that even when a simple truth, or chink in her beloved idol of victimization, is pointed out, she can't acknowldege it and move on. No, she must defend her position at all costs. For without it, she would have nothing. In this case, I somehow don't think Robin is entirely to blame for her rash defense of so simple an error. The one to blame, IMHO, is the false "Watchman". It is he that has rallied her and her fellow villagers on their current witch hunt. It is he that has so deviously supplied this gang we see on FN with pitchforks and torches. It is he that is feverishly building gallows and stakes at which to burn and hang HH. It is he that has convinced Robin and her gang of their victimhood. It is he that is preparing the scarlet letters, in hopes of HH someday wearing them. It is he that is prowling about the town hall, trying to turn the local potentates against HH. It is he that is playing the part of Judas with Mrs. Alvear, convincing her that he is on her side, while secretly plotting her demise. ForeverHis, TruthHunter, MissionaryLady, UnderGrace, GlorySeeker, CommonSense/JustCurious etc. etc. are just expendable pawns to him. He is using them to sharpen his instruments of war, but when the time comes, he will undoubtedly turn those same instruments of evil against them. The anti cult movement is an ever consuming fire, that eventually MUST consume even itself. Robin and her friends should be pitied, because by allying themselves with wolves like Watchman Fellowship, they are only helping to erect the very gallows that Phillip Arnn and his evil crew are plotting to hang them from. The anti-cult movement is nothing more than a modern day reincarnation of the evils of the Catholic Inquisitions. The Roman Church no longer needs their hooded executioners, for they now have Arnn, Walker, and their evil ilk to do the dirty work for them. I heard that exact thing from ........... Try to think up something else daniel...nobody is afraid that the "beast" of the endtimes is going to have copies of factnet...lol... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1578 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.88.169 |
now Daniel do not waste your time worring about my relationship with the Arnn's...maybe he has seen a side of a oneness believer that he never thought existed... you sure have done poorly representing the Shema... and besides We are not discussing what I believe on this forum we are discussing HH... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 779 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Daniel.. "convinced Robin and her gang of their victimhood ... preparing the scarlet letters, in hopes of HH someday wearing them ... prowling about the town hall, trying to turn the local potentates against HH...." Yes, this describes the activities. However, while Arnn put on his professional sophistry garb of psychobabble-philosopher-initiator the position of 'victim' and blasphemers, rabble-rousers and liars, strident accusers, has been taken on with gusto by the oppos that you mention above. Dupes 'move up' and assume their own role of entrapment in spiritual bondage. Although I am reluctant to group Under_Grace with the others because his tongue does not speak flames of fire. Perhaps he is largely emotionally with the gang, however - .. out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. And a restrained tongue points to a heart still seeking to be attuned to God. Perhaps an exception among our oppos here. Most would do better to even just heed the advice of Gamaliel - Acts 5:38-39 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 408 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.142 |
LOL, you two are hilarious. I am laughing too hard to type a reply. Just one thing, One Blair Adams in my life was more than enough. I am not going to let anyone one else be my conscience again. Jesus is Lord and I am… Forever His | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 784 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
F_H, the fact that you now speak with a spirit of mockery is not surprising. Once you became the blasphemy defender the former Holy Spirit restraint (that I had perceived, rightly or wrongly) seems to have vanished. Nonetheless the advice given above, in the previous post, was meant for your careful consideration. Yours in Jesus name, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1580 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.51.164 |
Almost everyone is wrong except Mr Prax...sorry Prax we know the attitude... |
