| Author |
Message |
    
Bill deWaal
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 6:35 pm: | 
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If you really want to see who controls ISKCON then all you do is surf to the this link - but be warned that this is NOT pleasant reading!!!: {http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/black/bogus4.htm,},this web site is published by devotees of ISKCON!
These are the members of the GBC - the governing body of the society. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 4:00 pm: |
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Bitter Memories
Former Hare Krishna children allege abuse
By Tina Susman
STAFF WRITER
March 3, 2002
THE MOLESTATIONS began at age 8, and by 9, as her body began showing the first curves of maturity, Melody Gedeon was being eyed as marriage material. She was first raped at 13, she said, but instead of sympathy she got anger from the community, which accused her of being a temptress who had wrecked her assailant's marriage.
Through it all, say Gedeon and dozens of other children of Hare Krishna followers, there were days locked in roach-infested rooms, nights listening to the cries of other abused children and mornings with their faces pressed into urine-soaked bedding by teachers angry they had wet their pants.
Now 31, she still wets the bed sometimes and runs at the sight of a cockroach.
Found at: http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ny-ushare032608159mar03.story?coll=ny%2Dnews%2Dprint |
Bill deWaal
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 2:56 am: |
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I have recently "lost" my wife to this cult. The manner in which they approach the prospective "devotee" is very subtle and clever. Even her so called "guru", who she eventually trusted and believed before even talking to me about any matters in the home, knew she was married to a Christian did not warn her of what the consequences to our marriage would be if she became an "initiated" member of the cult. Their literature even says they must forsake family to be able to reach the "higher plane of conciousness." The new devotees are told they are worshipping the same God that the Christians worship. But only has to surf the Internet to see what this cult is all about. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 6:31 pm: |
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Former Hare Krishna children allege abuse
Hare Krishnas more involved in sexual abuse than others ?
....
The only non-Catholic denomination that has been plagued with allegations of widespread child sexual abuse is the Hare Krishna movement, a small Hindu-like sect. Scores of people have alleged that they were sexually abused as children at Hare Krishna boarding schools in the 1970s and 1980s.
But the Hare Krishnas have been far more open than the Catholic Church in responding to the crisis, which has forced a number of Hare Krishna temples into bankruptcy. The Hindu sect published a detailed expose of its own wrongdoing, written by a Middlebury College sociologist, in its official journal in 1998; a year earlier it had set up a child protection office to investigate and report to authorities instances of child abuse.
.......
-------
Watch that pedophile priest purge not become a witch-hunt
..
They need to remember that false accusations can be made.
During a 1990s wave of "recovered memory therapy," for example, thousands of women and men were led to believe they had repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse, incest and even satanic cult murders. Adult children accused their parents, siblings and other childhood figures of hideous crimes. Families were ripped apart forever.
Truth became a national casualty.
.... |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:23 am: |
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Nation: Hare Krishna congregations to file for bankruptcy, spokesman says
Copyright © 2002 AP Online
By STEPHEN MANNING, Associated Press
LANHAM, Md. (February 6, 2002 7:37 p.m. EST) - Hare Krishna congregations named in a $400 million lawsuit alleging sexual and emotional abuse of students at several boarding schools will file for bankruptcy to avoid being sued, a spokesman for the Hindu sect said Wednesday.
About a dozen congregations will start filing for Chapter 11 reorganization next week in several states, said Anuttama Dasa, a Maryland-based spokesman for the International Society of Krishna Consciousness, or ISKCON.
"We don't believe that innocent members and congregations should be held accountable for the deviant behavior of individual acts committed 20 or 30 years ago," he said.
The group hopes that if their plan is approved by federal bankruptcy judges, the lawsuit filed in Dallas by former boarding school students will be dismissed.
^^^The Texas lawsuit alleges young children at Krishna schools in India and the United States were terrorized by their instructors. There are 94 plaintiffs in the lawsuit, according to the office of Windle Turley, the Dallas attorney who filed the lawsuit.
They allege that young girls were given as brides to older men who donated to the religious community. Children also allegedly were deprived of medical care, scrubbed with steel wool until their skin bled, and prevented from leaving the schools.
Turley has said the abuse started in 1972 at ISKCON's first school in Dallas and continued in six other U.S. schools and two in India. He said ISKCON knew that sex offenders were working in their schools.
^^^The faith's spiritual leader believed children as young as 5 should be sent to boarding schools so they can learn to be pure devotees.
Roughly a dozen schools operated in North America by the late 1970s, but all have since closed. There are currently 75,000 Hare Krishnas in North America
Extracted from http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/242307p-2304122c.html |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 2:09 am: |
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I am looking for other ex-krsna children like myself who have been left out of the turley suit like myself. |
Edmund
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 3:24 am: |
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seeking former members of the krishna temple in berkeley CA, who have had sexual abuse experience or physical abuse forced on them. I am compiling a resource for groups in the area.
thanks
Edmund |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 9:53 pm: |
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You are seeking information on a very difficult thing. As you know, Krishna devotees do not practice sex, unless it is for reproduction . . . |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 12:52 am: |
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unfortunately the fact is that many practiced forced sex on many of us even though it is one of their main laws. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 5:26 pm: |
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Harrison left Hare Krishna society out of will
IANS[ SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 2002 10:35:52 PM ]
LONDON: The waiting game within the Hare Krishna society has ended after the revelation that former Beatle George Harrison had not left it a penny.
It was widely reported after his death that he would leave $30 million to the Hare Krishna trust. But the will, publicised on Friday, showed that he left the entire estate of $150 million to his wife Olivia and then their son Dhani, 25.
/// Harrison had donated his ranch in Lethmore Heath village just north of London to the Hare Krishna group. That had led many followers of the sect to believe that there would be a substantial legacy to the group from his will.
/// http://203.199.93.7/cms.dll/xml/comp/articleshow?artid=29895104 |
Sunil R V
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 12:28 pm: |
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hey do you think that there mustnt be an intention of pleasure through work,,isnt it,,then is it through determination that pleasure has to be avoided with work,,like if music is heard,,then pleasure of music is avoided how |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 3:47 pm: |
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I came to this temple from home and the temple prisident is a perv. The GBC is well aware of the problem, yet does nothing about it. At least 4 woman have complained about this man, yet there he is. I do not go to the temple anymore, I go to a catholic church, but in my heart I am Krishna Conscious.
Are any of you still into the core believe of Krishna? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 2:46 pm: |
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THERE ARE PERVS AND RAPISTS EVERYWHERE IN OUR WORLD BUT WE SHOULD NOT CONDEM A RELIGION FOR IT. I AM A HAPPY KRISHNA DEVOTEE AND I PRAY THAT KRISHNA WILL LET ALL THOSE VICTIMS SURVIVE THEIR TORMENT AND ABUSE. THIS IS A DEMORALISED WORLD, NOT BECOS OF KRISHNA BIT BECOS MAN HAS ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE LIKE AN ANIMAL, EAT, SLEEP, FIGHT AND HAVE SEX, JUST LIKE ANIMALS, NON DIFFERENT. LET US BE DIFFERENT AND USE OUR MINDS TO CONCENTRATE ON GOD TO BETTER OUR SURROUNDINGS A LITTLE. IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERNCE. KRISHNA IS WITH YOU ALWAYS, THINGS COULD BE WORSE.. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 5:28 pm: |
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Hare Krishna,
Hare Krishna,
Krishna, Krishna,
Hare Hare.
Hare Rama,
Hare Rama,
Rama Rama,
Hare Hare... |
M Rosenberg
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:43 pm: |
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Hello
The Sexual Abuse Treatment, Research, Resource, and Referral Website offers an extensive amount of resources, research, guidance, and other information on sexual abuse, sexual addiction, sexual deviance, and sexual offending behaviors and treatment. Please see www.stopoffending.com for all of the resources and information.
www.stopoffending.com |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:06 pm: |
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Yes, of coarse there are pervs in everywalk of life, but sadly as a Krishna Conscious woman, I cannot go to my temple because the temple president is a perv. The GBC know about it. Yes. They say it is the girls karma that allows them to get raped.
Why does not the GBC protect us?
It has never happened to me personally but several of the girls here copmplained, and they were told to leave, instead of removing the perv.
And the temple president let in a man who was kicked out of another temple, there was a court order to keep him out of his home temple, because he sexually abused his own daughter and served time in prison for it. He gladly admits this information to everyone, and also the fact that he shouldnt be around children! Thank god this prabhu left on his own, because he was giving Gita lessons at this temple for quite a time.
So, its a strange attration.
The religion itself is so pure and lovely, then girls are suckered in and raped, and if rape is not stopped, then it must be the GBC(thats the governing body of ISKCON-for those who dont know)at fault, because they can stop it by removing the know pervs from positions of power.
Excuse me, I am just a woman, not really worthy of rights, I am chattel.
Ok, then what of the little boys who get molested?
A child was sent away to be homeless from this temple, because a senior saw that the child was volnerable to molestation, now that child is homeless living in a shack with a parent who can barely provide food. And after years at living at the temple, kicked out to proctect the child!
Shame. |
cmb2041
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 8:37 pm: |
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I am reporter studying at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism in New York City. I am researching an article about the Hare Krishna recruiters selling books/flower/etc in low income minority neighborhoods -- not the usual airports and college campuses of the past.
If anybody has any experience with the Hare Krishnas and would like to help me out with some background information, please contact me.
Regards,
Charles Bennett
cmb2041@columbia.edu |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 4:44 pm: |
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What would you like to know? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 5:14 pm: |
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Krishna temples urge victims of abuse to make formal claim
By Larry B. Stammer, Los Angeles Times, 4/30/2003
LOS ANGELES - The six Hare Krishna temples in California, along with several other Krishna organizations here and in West Virginia, took steps yesterday to identify minors who may have been sexually abused or mistreated at boarding schools during the 1970s and '80s.
A lawsuit over the alleged abuse prompted the Krishna movement, known officially as the International Society of Krishna Consciousness, to file for bankruptcy last year to protect its assets and, the group said, to prevent closing of temples and other facilities across the United States.
As part of the bankruptcy process, the Krishna temples plan to publish legal notices today in major newspapers and magazines and on websites, urging victims to make claims if they want to be compensated under a proposed bankruptcy reorganization plan.
The move is the latest development in a three-year legal battle over the abuse allegations.
In charges that echo the sexual-abuse scandal in Roman Catholic dioceses across the United States, plaintiffs allege they were raped or otherwise physically and emotionally abused while living in Krishna boarding schools away from their parents.
The US boarding schools, known as ashram-based gurukulas, were all closed by the mid-1980s. In the United States, schools were located in Los Angeles and Three Rivers, Calif., Moundsville, W.Va., and Dallas. Other boarding schools were located in India.
A suit was filed in 2000 in Texas against the Los Angeles, Moundsville, and Dallas schools. The six California temples were also named as parties in the suit, which seeks millions in damages on behalf of more than 90 alleged victims. A lawyer for the victims said the number could rise to as many as a thousand victims.
Victims were subjected to ''the most unthinkable abuse and maltreatment of little children which we have seen,'' said Wendell Turley, the Texas plaintiff's lawyer who is handling the suit. ''It includes rape, sexual abuse, physical torture, and emotional terror of children as young as 3 years of age.''
A Los Angeles lawyer for the Krishna movement, David Liberman, said yesterday that he had no idea how many victims might step forward. He said that ''well over'' 2,000 to 3,000 children went through Krishna boarding schools during that period.
Liberman said the lawsuit ''threatens to close places of worship and punish innocent families that had nothing to do with these allegations.''
The movement reports about 75,000 members in the United States. Worldwide it says it has 10,000 temple devotees, who live at Krishna temples, and 250,000 congregational devotees.
An article on child abuse within the movement between 1971 and 1986 appears on the movement's website. In it, E. Burke Rochford Jr., professor of sociology at Middlebury College in Vermont, said US Krishna boarding schools first opened in 1971 in Dallas.
''It was here that some children were physically, psychologically, and sexually abused,'' Rochford wrote. Estimates of the number of students abused have ranged from 20 percent of all students who attended an ashram-gurukula to as many as 75 percent of the boys enrolled at a boarding school in Vrindavan, India, according to Rochford. |
narendermehta
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 1:50 pm: |
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In the series of conducting artistic programmes, Kshitij has organised 7 successful All India Child Art Exhibitions up till 2002. A Staggering figure of 59311 participants from all over the country has esteemed the exhibitions organized by kshitij & every year about 10000 participants increase the participants tally. Now taking a big step forward Kshitij is internationalising its exhibition for the first time to provide a versatile, broad based, consolidated framework for promotion of art & literature.
Art sees no limitations, it crosses all bars of caste, creed sex & culture to create diversity in unity. Art harmonises various cultures into one bonding & kshitij is just a tool to do that. As the management of Kshitij we wish to create a diversified, modular, self propelled interminable environment for upliftment & promotion of art & literature. We are determined to convert this ideate into reality through interpolation of our directive efforts & your continuous will to contribute towards it success for which we invite all of you to participate.
We hope for a wonderful response from young upcoming artists & people from all sections of the globe to participate & promote the efforts of kshitij. The last date for participation for Exhibition is 31st August, 2003.
You are requested to please send your e-mail address to us at narendermehta@hclinfinet.com as it would facilitate easier & faster communication about all our latest developments to you.
We look forward for your co-operation.
Thanking you
Narender Mehta
Secretary Kshitij
Note : For More Details Log on http://www.kshitij.org |
NewsSnoop
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 7:43 pm: |
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Free food from Krishna "cult," but at what cost?
http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000611.html
Changed:1:09 PM on Monday, July 7, 2003 |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 2:00 pm: |
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All of the statements I see in defense of what happened to us make me sick to my stomach. The defense contimues to be this was a long time ago and now we changed and why penalize the innocent. The Krsna movement was founded on my blood sweat and tears. Those of you that were involved in the begining know that it was not an isolated incededent or two. The established policy was neglect and abuse of the children. I will never be able to live a normal life and I believe that I deserve anything that the movement has. I would like to know how many people can look me in the eye and tell me that don't deserve it? |
U Knockwood
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 7:01 am: |
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Re Anonymous post of July 12:
Right on, brother. That's why the entire USA should be given back to the American Indians. A good chunk of it should go to the blacks, too.
The White man brutally ripped both ethnic groups out of their proud cultural heritage and shoved them into the lowest spot on the American social totem pole. The White man practiced slavery and genocide on these people for centuries.
Because of these heinous crimes against humanity, White people have no right at all to claim this country as their own. They should empty the US treasury to pay the Reds and the Blacks reparations, and they should get their a**es on boats back to Europe where they came from. |
NewsSnoop
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 11:26 am: |
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Does Krishna's public relations effort represent substance or spin?
http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000642.html Changed:4:06 PM on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 |
Charlie Gonzalez
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:45 pm: |
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Vedic wisdom has nothing to do with people's weakness.
Hare Krishna is based in a knowledge deeper than anything we have in the west.
Please, read Krishna's books and pray to get rid of the material stupidity of thinking that we are going to be eternal in this world.
Lord Krisna is GOD.
Everywhere we have problems as long as we are in this material world (Churches,Government,Schools etc................)
Hare Krishna! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 7:23 pm: |
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Some devotee told me: «you can't criticize devotee even if he did something against you». When you have a problem with a devotee in the in the temple when you talk about it another devotee will tell you: «talk about your problem with the temple prisident». When you have a problem with the temple prisident what can you do.
An initiated devotee asked me in secret to get pot and I answered hypocritly that I didn't know any drug dealer. I told another devotee about it and he said: «Tell the temple prisident about it» It was totally ridiculous of being told to denounce somebody to the temple prisident because a devotee make to problem or because you see a devotee who take intoxication. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 8:26 pm: |
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Hari bo! Hare Krishna! Bringing light to a suffering humanity in the age of pain!!! Hare! Hare! Hare! |
alan
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 9:44 pm: |
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Hello,
interested in an obscure folk-rock band of the late
60s called the BHAGAVAD GITA ?
how about 2 devotees from topanga canyon, California
in the late 60s who called themselves the RAINBOW BAND
?
MARC BOLAN of T.REX chanting HARE KRSNA on his 1st lp
?
u can read about these and related artists on thee 70s
invasion , a cultural center for obscure music 60s -
70s - today, Hare Krsna and Biblical scriptures,
VEGETARIANISM, Politics, Unknown women in rock and pop
and much more !
http://www.angelfire.com/vt2/70sinvasion/
...send this link to one person today, and have them
send it on and on..... |
Jagadananda Gauranga Dasa
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 8:07 pm: |
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Srutidev is the devotee mentioned in an earlier post. I knew him when he was at the Cincinnati temple, now defunct. He was quite "friendly" even then. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 4:26 pm: |
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/v-o-t-e/
The "vote only" service on the internet for people interested in the Hare Krishna Movement, to resolve problems of the Movement.
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the v-o-t-e group:
Vote #1 (The Common-sense vote) -- "Based on 'common sense,' should those participants of the Hare Krishna Movement be demoted / banned who have harmed the movement by not following the wishes of the Founder and initiating spiritual master, Srila
Prabhupada?"..............[Examples of betrayal: Replacing Srila Prabhupada from his sole Initiating Spiritual Master position in the movement; corrupt temple management; Changing
Srila Prabhupada books and recordings; physically poisoning Srila Prabhupada; obscene behavior (child and adult abuse)]
o Yes
o No
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/v-o-t-e/
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above.
Thanks! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 1:17 pm: |
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On a small scale the so called Cult can be very fulfilling and effective. You cannot tag ALL the Here Krishna Communes as rapists and abusers of power. Bill Dewaal, shut up, don't be such a Nazi. You did not loose your wife to the 'cult'. She decided to join it.....
Vugo, Jay Acra of Ireland |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 5:37 am: |
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Hare Krsna,
You will not find any thing against the Hare Krsna movement from me. I joined in the 70's and must say i owe the founder everything i know about God and our position. I have come to understand Lord Jesus better due to my association with the Hare Krsna's. And since following the rules and regs. of Hare krsna, now i am also following all the 10 commandments. So i have become a better Christian too, due to my association w/Krsna |
an onlooker
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 9:17 pm: |
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Personally, my experience of ISKCON is this: all they really care about is the propagation of power and the accumulation of wealth and prey on the alienated youth especially in order to use them as human fuel for their religious swindling. The Krsna's delight in breaking up families, denouncing others who aren't krsnas and seemingly abusing esp emotively young devotees. Iskcon, you know what you have done...you can hide behind the tilaka etc but you can never, never ever hide away from the truth...All I see about this group when I observe them is the breaking, the grinding, the destruction of individualism and coercive attempts to forge a false communalism. With deceptive ideology you have forever earnt my anger, a righteous anger, the anger of knowing that you are not the Absolute Truth yet deceive the multitudes by pretending so... |
bonkers
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 1:28 pm: |
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Right on onlooker. Couldn't have said it better myself. The long term effects of being raised in this cult are now coming out. My hopes are that the lawsuit will bring some insight to these parents that are stupid enough to raise their children in these communities. Wake up people. It didn't work with us, the 2nd generation...why would it be so different now?
Ponder this for one moment:
As a parent now, I am constantly in fear of failing as a parent. I am learning to parent from books, parenting classes and therapy. Break the family apart and you are ruining your child's chance at building a functional family later in their own life. I grew up without mom and dad and siblings. I never knew the joys of having a family. I was taught that hugging my mother upon her return from sankirtan was "subtle sex". Now I yearn to hold and hug my child, but somehow...although I love him SO VERY MUCH, it just doesn't feel right. My emotional detachment from my family at such a young age scarred me for life. I have no clue how to be motionally attached to someone, even though I may love them with all of my heart.
Think about this people when you make a choice to send a child into this cult that preaches AGAINST family values. I wish I had known my father.....I might be able to have a better relationship with my son and with men in general. As it is now I expect a man to treat me badly, to leave, to look down his nose at me. I am only a woman....
Think about how your daughter will be as an adult. Think of the scum she will eventually marry with the ISKCON crap being pound into her head as a child.
THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN PEOPLE!!!!! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 6:25 pm: |
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I know exactly how you feel. I have so much trouble connecting even with the people that I know mean so much to me. My partner now has to force me to pick up the phone to say hello to my Grandmother, who is the one person who gave me a chance to survive the trauma. But to me there is no bond it is just like the friends I met last week. Not to mention the other numerous problems we suffer, but at least I survived. I just can't reason out how any parent can believe that what they did or are still doing to their children can be the right thing. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
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Krishna Consciousness is really wonderful! IT IS ABOUT LOVE! KRISHNA IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL LOVING! When we chant Hare Krishna we open up our hearts and directly experience the never ending BLISS of the Godhead! Bhakti is what it is all about!
IF we are genuinely in touch with the Lord we will be really LOVING in our relationships with others. Some immature souls take their subtle negative programming and bring it into Krishna Consciousness. The process of Bhakti is without defect and IT WORKS! Srila Prabhupada was a Great Saint and I certainly know MANY devotees in ISKCON and out of ISKCON who are VERY SPIRITUAL AND DEVELOPED PEOPLE as a result of their spiritual practice. Being a fanatic or manipulative exploiter is not the philosophy. This is brought in as a result of our material desire to lord over others and enjoy. Our human relationships mirror our relationship with God so if you are not LOVING and HONEST in how you relate with others then obviously there is something lacking! Please do not knock the philosophy as it is PURE but realize that people have defects and unfortunately bring their defects into their spiritual life. Ultimately what matters MOST in this life is our SOUL growth and if we do not work on ourselves and our relationship with the SUPREME SOUL then we have completely wasted our time. Please chant God's names and learn to LOVE and express this LOVE TO ALL SOULS! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 2:11 pm: |
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I'd rather NOT be "in touch" with your lord, and be IN TOUCH with my children. Your god never did a thing for any of us.
The philosophy preaches renunciation of family. How can you begin to debate that?
I yearn for my family to this day, I have no yearning for following your path or anyone else's that leads to a god. That is what iskcon took away from me. I gave my everything to krsna, when I realized he was nothing but a pretty fable, I lost everything. Now I am striving to give my children what I never had.....and it doesn't include a god. Family love is more important. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 10:59 am: |
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You were dealing with a lot of immature fanatics who were bringing their own screwed up problems into the practice. You find this in all religions. I have met a lot of immature people in Iskcon as well as other religious traditions. Obviously you had some very negative experiences and it would be difficult I am sure for you to seperate the practice and philosophy from how you were treated.
At the end of this life what will matter most is the spirituality we cultivate. Family LOVE is a reflection of the Love we have toward God. This is what BHAKTI YOGA is all about. IT is not a fable nor is it a dream it is objective reality. You are ETERNAL SPIRIT part of the SUPREME SPIRIT.
Someone who is in touch with GOD is in touch with themselves and as a result has GODLY qualities and treats others in a LOVING WAY. We can't LOVE God and treat His parts and parchel poorly can we?
It sounds like you have been really hurt by your experience. I certainly wish you the best and would be happy to talk to you sometime if you want about your experience as I might be able to help or at least listen. I am not coming from a place of judgement as I honestly care about you and dislike seeing anyone hurting especially as a result of being screwed up by Born Again Krishnas.
I know many, many devotees. Some of whom experienced the worse possible abuse due to their situation. What do you do if your parents are fanatics? I even know some devotees who taught school and abused children. We are ALL children of God and what getting in touch with our identify as God's children is what matters most.
Renunciation of family does not mean cold, impersonalism or lack of love or involvement. It means we understand the transcendental in relation to our temporary position in this material world. I have two beautiful daughters and I am EXTREMELY LOVING and good as a father to them. I am very attached to them and extremely responsible to them yet I understand that that as souls they have lived many, many lives. My job as a father is to help my children Love God and develop their spirituality. If I am not Lovimg to them how is this possible? Shoving dry theology down a kids throat is not giving them God and is pretty stupid as far as I am concerned. I am sure that you are a really good mom and I am sure that you are through your love are giving your children spirituality far more than some parent pushing dogma on their kids.
We are ALL one family regardless of external differences. Our biological family is VERY important but universally our family is with all souls. God Bless you and Hare Krishna! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 2:56 pm: |
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I agree Krishna Consciousness is not Iskcon or how individuals mess it up as God is already in our hearts. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 8:13 pm: |
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(by the way this is not the mom)...
I have long realized that the problems of abuse occured, in large part, due to bad individuals. But it is a poor excuse to say that it is ok to send your children into a situation where these bad individuals could take advantage of them. It was all of ISKCON's fault that there was a philosophy of just sending young kids (I was not even past my 5th birthday when I was put on a plane alone to another country) off with no concern as to what might happen to them. Even if I had not been raped, I caught on fire, I was beaten and I saw traumatic things happen to the children around me. No one ever said I wonder what would happen if we sent 1000 kids over seas with no parents? Do you think they will be ok? No they just shipped us off and when they heard rumors of what was going on, they said spare the rod and spoil the child. If you were around back then you know what I am talking about. But you are right it was just a few misguided individuals no one else is responsible. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 8:20 pm: |
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Haribol! Krsna Consciousness is INDEED not ISKCON. Vaishnavism stems back from India hundreds of years ago. What certain individuals do is due to their own screwiness. Family LOVE is important, and giving your children the opportunity to learn about God is loving them as well. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 9:06 pm: |
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I am being sarcastic. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:18 am: |
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YES you are completely correct EVERYONE is RESPONSIBLE for what happened! We are a family and it is wrong to blame it on a few for there were many who enabled abusers to abuse by looking the other way or supporting the situation.
Family LOVE and being a good parent is ones Service to Krishna. Iskcon had a lot of messed up kids join and they projected their own junk onto their own kids. THe system was messed up as a result. Most of these same devotees have grown a lot in the past thirty years and are mature in a way that they would not have been at the time. Iskcon today still has some problems but I can tell you from my own experience that some of the most loving nicest individuals I know are members and are not fanactical dingbats who abuse their children. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:51 am: |
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Well said! I was a total drugged out hippy when I first came to Krishna consciousness. I sent my children off to India which must have been the worst thing I could have done considering the horrid abuse that took place. My son went through a nightmare but that was never his fault. I blame myself but I have learned to forgive myself as I was young and a total zombie at the time. Krishna consciousness is a sublime way of life. My children are grown now and forgive me. They still embrace the philosophy and are good parents themselves. I can understand how people hurt by overzealous dysfunctional youth trying to follow a spiritual path would hold negative feelings toward the philosophy and ISKCON. Well all I can say is that as a mother is take care of yourself and learn to forgive. (this doesn't mean forget) and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I have grown and I am not the same person I was in the 70's. I have seen ISKCON grow too and although it is far from perfect I know that for me at least it is a real blessing to be able to connect with like minded folks and worship the Lord. I do not agree with everything that has been done but I can see the faults of people and not the philosophy as there IS a difference. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 9:18 pm: |
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I just want some answers and then I will leave you all alone. How can you so casually dismiss the damage you did to your own children and your fellow devotees' children? If you had accidentally stepped on an ant in the street you would be more concerned. You ask me to learn to forgive. I have learned forgiveness (for my own sanity), but I hardly think it is your place to ask me to learn forgiveness. WE WERE RAPPED AND BEATEN AND DENIED NEEDED MEDICAL ATTENTION! This is not keeping your dad's car out too late. This is destroying human life. It is against the very tenants you hold so high. If you the punishment for alcoholism is getting molten lead poured down your throat for an eon or two, what do you think the punishment is for torture? And who do you think Krsna will punish more highly the person who committed the torture or the person who stood by and did nothing? Or worse yet the person who knows what happened and then tries to prevent restitution from taking place in this realm? Maybe he will accept I was a drugged out hippie as an excuse. Or maybe we grew up is good enough. Or maybe it was them and not us. I hope I am there on that day. I can hold my head high and tell him if you judge me over judgment of them, I don't want to live in your world. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 10:40 pm: |
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Just to clarify things I am not the mother who posted earlier just some one with similiar views. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 9:56 am: |
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What you are saying I completely accept and would not argue with any of it. What I did to my childrend was pretty bad and we have come to terms with it. We actually have a decent relationship. I take full responsiblity for my part in what happened and I hope that if I should come back in another human birth and be placed in a similar situation that I handle it completely different. I was not in the shoes of my sons but believe me I know how it affected our family. You are not in my shoes and perhaps if you had been as unaware as I and others had been at the time you would have done the same? Maybe not but what is important is that we learn and grow from our mistakes. I honestly hope that I have learned my lesson and I pray that I continue to learn. I pray that you find peace from the pain that you experienced and know that I care about you and others from the second generation who suffered. I support you in your healing and if you are able please support me and others who enabled your abuse to take place. I am truly sorry and I take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the terrible nightmare that you were thrown into. |
Quadmama
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 4:16 am: |
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Any cult as I see it just feed on the weak minded. KKK and the skin heads do the same things. They say it is all in God's name but who are they foolin'? If you're not strong enough to have a mind of your own don't bring children into it. God didn't give use the blessing of child birth for us to just to have babies and let people use them in there own sick and twisted ways. And before all of you Krishna’s (or any other sick group) start quoting the bible read it and don't twist the words for your own sick pleasures. Please tell me where in the bible it says it is okay to rape, molest, and beat a child in God's name? God wants us all to be at peace with one another but the way y'all are trying to do it just makes me sick. For anyone who harms a child in any way will spend an eternity in hell. Be strong, be an individual. You all have minds of your own. Be productive in life, don't be a waste of a soul! Break free from these oppressive people. Live life to the fullest, but do it on your terms! If you can’t do it for yourself, do it for your babies. Help them grow up to be great adults and not psycho paths that will just prey on any weak minded person they may find! Our main job in life is to help our children grow up to be great adults! Don’t waste their lives just because you are scared! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 10:34 am: |
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Hare Krishna my friend! Nice words! This is actually what Hare Krishna's believe. Krishna consciousness is about PEACE AND LOVE and from what I have experienced follows the teachings of Jesus more than many people who profess to be Christians. Please don't knock our religion as it is a postive things and has much good to offer the world. Christianity also has a great amount of good to offer the world. Of course, we can see many cases in which people abuse the teachings to Jesus to abuse others. This is not about God it has to do with our own materialistic dirt and selfishness. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 1:54 pm: |
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True true! KC is the way to peace and LOVE! I LOVE my FAMILY as I LOVE GOD! I WOULD NEVER ABUSE MY CHILD and I have BEEN INVOLVED IN KC SINCE 1971! Anyone who abuses their child is a real loser! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 1:59 pm: |
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Just want to point out the lack of dedication to being serious about fixing this issue....
No Funding For ISKCON Child Protection Office
BY DHIRA GOVINDA DASA
USA, Feb 13 (VNN) — Dear Maharajas and Prabhus, please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
We are writing to inform you that the ISKCON Child Protection Office (CPO) has no funding to continue its operation. Thus, the activities of the office, including investigating cases of alleged child abuse connected with ISKCON, coordinating a grant program for youth who were maltreated when they were children under the care of ISKCON, serving as a resource and guidance center for all varieties of child protection concerns, and facilitating temples and schools to establish child protection educational programs, effective screening systems and child protection teams, are being suspended, or at least substantially reduced. We are aware that there are tens of thousands of dollars in unfulfilled pledges to the CPO from 2003.
The ISKCON Communications Office is working to realize these pledges for the CPO. The CPO will retain its office space and phone lines for at least a few more weeks, in the hopes that some or all of these pledges will be received, thus allowing the CPO to continue functioning. Also, we understand that additional pledges and donations for the CPO may be made at the upcoming GBC meetings.
Thank you for your attention in this matter. Hare Krsna. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:54 pm: |
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Yeah this sucks but the settlement for the law suit has just been declared and I am going to get my settlement at last! I want to thank all the first generation of devotees who went WAY out of their way and really supported us. I feel like I am a part of of big family and this feeling was lacking so much when I was young.
I am glad that we are getting a settlement and I hope that things only get better within ISKCON! Hare Krishna to all my friends and fellow Kulis reading this! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 1:21 pm: |
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What have you heard? I haven't been notified yet. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 1:27 pm: |
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I just heard about it the other day! My Dad called me. there is a post about it on Chakra.org too. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 2:10 pm: |
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It looks like a joke to me, but I guess I will find out when I get the papers. I can't believe they settled with the book trust for 30mil. and they are offering this settlement to us. I lost my whole child hood and I will never be normal. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:06 pm: |
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My whole childhood was a scene from a bad movie,Mayapur was HELL for me, but I have got a lot of support from my Mom and Dad and first generation devotees. I have healed but I still think a lot needs to change in how things are done. Old dogs don't always learn new tricks too easily, but hey at least I have a biological family that supports me, some of my friends don't even have that. My parents are VERY good about all of this. I am just happy that this is over and that they are keeping their word. |
Anonymous (203.129.242.114)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 6:32 am: |
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It was very sad to read of the destroyed families and scarred childhoods and would pray that healing comes to all though I know it will be slow in many cases. As a young Indian who has tried to understand a lot of religious philosophy including the ISKCON teachings for a brief time, I feel that loving and sheltering families and adults fulfilling family responsibilities effectively are key milestones in spiritual development as well and any teaching that exhorts abandoning family responsibilities is very very suspect. Of course renunciation is key to all religious traditions but that is for those who are very advanced spiritually and prepared for the austerity of the monastic order and importantly are not leaving unfulfilled responsibilities at home (young children, old parents etc.) In any true religious tradition, the monastic order is not be taken or given lightly. Attempting to draw people casually or indirectly to a pseudo monastic structure that aims to break the established foundations of a society's family values is dangerous, cultic and unethical and gives rise to all these problems. |
Nori J. Muster (63.93.64.61)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 9:04 pm: |
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Hi Everyone,
In 1994 I found out about the child abuse in ISKCON and have been studying it ever since. At my web site I post updates on the lawsuit and other information. Now I'm doing a book called, "The Next Generation: Born or Raised in Cults." It will have stories from people raised in a variety of closed religious groups, such as ISKCON.
Nori
http://surrealist.org
http://surrealist.org/gurukula/index.html
http://surrealist.org/norimuster/childabuseinfo.htmlgà |
Anonymous (209.86.138.114)
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 5:34 pm: |
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What kind of drawers do HareKrishnas wear? I say they wear boxers, both the men and the women. |
Gods kids (66.99.115.29)
| | Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 5:08 pm: |
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This is a real cult.They're scary.Most of them are not even close to being believers.They will all be burning in hell.We need to pray for them. |
Anonymous (172.150.169.155)
| | Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 10:44 pm: |
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Hello all. I used to be a member of ISKCON for a long time. I did not experience any sexual abuse thank God, but I met many young people, kids of devotees, who did. ISKCON is a bonafide cult and a false religion at that.
It took me years to get over my involement in ISKCON and get all those stupid ideas out of my head. When I started to live on my own again, it took me awhile to even make friends because I had this idea that non-devotees were "demons" and karmis etc. ISKCON teaches alienation, from oneself, and from the rest of the human race. And yes ISKCON discourages healthy family developement. ISKCON preaches against doing good work in the world. Anyone who feels inclined to do good things like charity are looked down upon. The ISKCON leadership structure is completely authoritarian and is intent on crushing any individualism in the other members.
Some say, "well you have to blame a few bad individuals for the bad in ISKCON, but the 'philosophy' and AC Bhaktivedanta Swami are beyond reproach..." I used to say that too, but now I think that is BS. The so-called philosophy is so full on contradictions it's not even funny. Historically, the so-called "Gaudiya" Vaishnavism is a later invention. Chaitanya was a fanatical sentimentalist who attracted like minded people to himself to declare him God, and preach an unethical philosophy. They say their religion go's back "5000" years. Not true! Krishna is a pretty myth. If there ever really was a person named Krishna, he was not God.
Also, to say AC Bhaktivedanta was a saint and somehow not reponsible for what so called "bad apples" did in his name is BS as well. Just read his books, which are totally filled with intolerance, fanatacism, racsim, and an unbelievably revolting amount of sexism. I blame him and his books for attracting certain types of "bad apples" to his so-called "movement". He is the first one to blame! He "planted the seeds" of totalitarian fanatical cultism, and any sane person after reading his books won't be surprised at the quality of people who became his psychophants and followers. And I take myself as an proof of this. I was an immature, impressionable kid when I joined. All I was interested in was escaping the world, burrying my head in the sand, and being told what to do by others so I wouldn't have to think and make descisions on my own. I would have believed any stupid thing back then. After being psychologically abused by over-bearing, power hungry, and insensitive people, and reaching the depths of depression because of it, I escaped that place thank God!
If anyone wants to write me an email, fell free: patricklansdowne@yahoo.com |
Anonymous (66.91.45.135)
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 2:40 am: |
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This is exactly what I have been trying to say to people. I don't know if prahbupad was a good man or bad man. I only knew him for a short time before he died and not very personally at that. But every one needs to except that the foundation of the movement and the philosophy of renouncing the children is what led to our abuse. The fact that there were bad apples around at the time to took advantage of this opportunity doesn't relieve every one else of responsibility. How can a person believe that if you send a 5 year old child with no parental contact to another country, the fact they were raped isn't their fault. The fact that it wasn't their child doesn't matter they should have said something is wrong. They should have said they will not support this, they will do every thing in their power to make sure it doesn't happen.
But now we are at a new point. There are 500 people who have had to make order out of the shattered pieces of their lives. It doesn't matter what the law says, the guilty must pay. Trying to hide behind ignorance, bankruptcy, pointing the finger at some one else, doesn't change the truth. We were abused and will never be able to remove that from the foundation of our existence. All members of the movement no matter what role you played or now play should be making every effort to do the right thing. The temples should be liquidated, the movement disbanded and all of the people should spend the rest of their lives trying to figure out how to fix this terrible result of their actions. Nothing can make it right.
Well every time I try to write something I get so worked up. I just can't believe any one justifies what happened to me. I hope I still make sense. But sometimes it does help to get it out. |
Anonymous (172.146.84.195)
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 1:46 pm: |
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Yes I agree completely! All the seeds of craziness are to be found in Bhaktivedanta Swami's books. It was a stupid and fanatical idea to seperate familys, to ship kids off, and the biggest wrong on the part of Bhaktivedanta Swami was the fact that he was naive enough to think that all these formely-drugged out hippies were somehow qualified to become teachers and mentors only because they were chanting. No back ground checks or requirements for being qualified teachers. The stupidity and ignorance of taht is just rediculous. Yes, I blame Bhaktivedanta Swami first for being so naive and fanatical. It makes me so sick to hear people saying things like, "Prabhupada was a pure devotee, and all-knowing, so there must be some trancsedental reason why he allowed all those kids to be abused." What a load of evil BS!!! Bhaktivedanta Swami was just a naive old Indian man who didn't understand american hippies.
I agree with the previous poster. The whole of ISKCON should be broken up and disbanded. The perpetrators of all those crimes and the ones who allowed it to go on should all be thrown in jail. All those properties should be sold and given to those kids. I hope someday there is some amount of justice. |
Julie (4.157.83.164)
| | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
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I think that Iskcon Is PRETTY COOL and That Krishna Counsciousness is a really WONDERFUL PHILOSOPHY. I Know Dozens of People INvolved through my sister who lives in the temple and they are excellent,moral People.I do not consider myself a devotee or follower of their guru but I know that he was a good man and very very saintly and yes I have read his books. I do not agree with everything but then again I am a follower of our SAVIOR JESUS CHRIS,THE TRUE PATH TO GOD.
I do believe that BHAKTI YOGA IS WHAT JESUS TAUGHT and I DO NOT CONSIDER ISKCON TO BE EVIL OR BAD anyone who says this is not being honest or loving. THE Hare KRISHNAS are GODO WARM LOVING PEOPLE AND A LOT MORE SPIRITUAL THAN THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE I HAVE MET IN THE CHURCHES THAT I HAVE ATTENDED>
Child abuse is everywhere and even took place in the Baptist church that I was a member of.STOP BEING BITTER AND GET THERAPY AND HEAL I was raped by my Uncle when I was tweleve so DON't TELL ME THAT I DON'T know about pain as I have lived it but I do know about GOD AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED GREAT HEALING THROUGH THE POWER OF JESUS CHRIST
any Christian who eats meat is not following GODS TEACHINGS OF LOVE AND COMMPASSION the Hare Krishnas at least try to live a Godly life those of you who are being critical I would have to ask you what are you doing? If you want to talk to me about the faith and our savior please e-mail me at supermomjulie@juno.com |
Anonymous (4.65.50.114)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 8:10 pm: |
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Rather than attack you personally Julie, I am going to assume that you are blissfully unaware of what happened. This is not a single incident. This the system wide abuse (both physical and mental), neglect, molestation and rape of young children. There are 500 victims that have come forward. One is even a parapalegic now.
As to the god part. I really wonder how in tune with the almighty you are when you say child abuse is every where, it even happens in the baptist church. I don't want to believe in any holy organization that would passively excuse child abuse. Any one that is truly spiritual and truly a good person should strive to protect our innocent youth at all costs.
And in regard to your having been raped by your unce, I feel for you and don't belittle any abuse, but what happened to me was far greater than one incident. My childhood from 2-11 was stolen from me. Then I spent the next 15+ years trying to cope. I only have brought my life into some form of order in the last few years. I trully feal for you but I don't think you can have any inclination for what I have had to deal with. And my healing has little to do with the debt that is owed to all of us by the people who subjected us to this night mare.
If your view of the world is what is required for me to be a holy person, I choose unholly. |
Anonymous (24.70.194.209)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 2:19 pm: |
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uhmm hey i was just wondering..i have this english project due and its about cults and i have to do the Hare Krishna and i was just wondering if sumone culd answer a few questions for me. One is: What are some of the mind control techniques the Hare Krishna use? THX A BUNCH GUYS!:D |
Patrick Lansdowne (172.135.98.245)
| | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 12:53 pm: |
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“uhmm hey i was just wondering..i have this english project due and its about cults and i have to do the Hare Krishna and i was just wondering if sumone culd answer a few questions for me. One is: What are some of the mind control techniques the Hare Krishna use? THX A BUNCH GUYS!:D”
This is an interesting question. Here are a few quick thoughts:
I used to be in the HK organization, and it took me years to realize the “mind control” techniques being used. I don’t think this term really applies in the popular definition of it. When I think of “mind-control” techniques I think of movies about people being strapped down and starved with bright lights being shined in their faces and sleep deprivation etc. I think the dynamics of cult “mind control” are not so blatant. First of all, lets define “mind control” in the cult context (and my own personal experience): We are talking about a religious and social structure of the group that discourages independent thought and takes away one’s decision making choices and abilities. The purpose of these “techniques” is basically, to get people to stay in the group, and to conform to the will of the leaders of the group, and to disempower them so they don't have the mental strength to leave. To make them dependent on the organization. I’m sure there are all kinds of psychological terms to define these things, but I don’t know about that stuff.
Some people view the HK’s (Hare Krishna’s) as an exotic Hindu spiritual sect transplanted in the west by an elderly Bengali monk, and this is the truth, but only a simplistic explanation. ISKCON seems attractive to naïve people mostly, but after joining the group most people realize that it is an unhealthy and authoritarian organization that discourages independent thinking and breeds mindless following and blind acceptance of the decisions made by leaders. (I say most people realize this, because in my 10 years involvement with ISKCON that was my experience. A far greater majority of people who “join up” end up becoming unhappy with the group and leave. In most of the temples I either lived at or visited, if any new people were even coming at all, they did not really stay long. But some stay for a number of years, and get initiated etc. But after a few years, most leave.)
So what “techniques” are used?:
1) The first thing is the so-called “philosophy”. I obviously don’t have the time to write out the whole of HK philosophy here, but a few of the things that make devotees feel like they can’t leave, and distort their ability to function naturally are:
The HK teaching is that the highest way of human life is to be a devotee of Krishna, and non-devotees are somehow “bad association”. Chaitanya said, “asat sagha tyag…” which means “bad” association must be renounced by all serious devotees. “Bad” association means all non-devotees. That is all over Bhaktivedanta Swami’s books. He taught that a devotee should only associate with non-devotees for the purpose of converting them to HK-ism (Hare Krishna-ism), otherwise their association is potentially contaminating to the devotee. What is the result of such a teaching? Alienation from the rest of humanity, and the development of a very judgmental attitude towards other human beings.
And if, after realizing that the so-called sat-sangha (good or spiritual association) of the devotee community is unhealthy and oppressive, one is faced with a problem. This was my experience. After years of swallowing the idea that non-devotees or “karmis” are evil and demoniac and contaminating association, but then realizing that living at the temple was like living in a loony bin, I had no where to go. It took me years to make friends again because I was basically scared of people. I think that’s why it took me so long to leave. Fear. I was so depressed living at the temple because people were so impersonal. The leaders were only interested in getting me to do my “service” (i.e. the temple chores or work assigned by a temple leader). If I had a problem or felt lonely or unhappy, the only advice was that I “should stop listening to the mind, and get out of maya (illusion) and the tamo-guna (“mode of ignorance”)". If I was feeling bad emotions such as loneliness or despondency or dissatisfaction it was because I was stuck “in the bodily concept” or, some would tell me, It was because I was totally controlled by my lust. This is my experience. No other advice was given to overcome any problem but “chant more” and “sell more books” or “read more of ‘Prabhupada’s’ books”, and do what you are told by the older devotees. I was never taken seriously as a human being. If I was having any problems or doubts, I was made to feel like there was something inherently wrong with me, and that I was in the grip of maya (the personification of illusion and temptation). I found myself trying to deny my feelings and pretend that I was happy because I didn’t want to seem “mental” to the others. But to the leaders I was just another warm body to do the work assigned to me. So where was I supposed to go? If the only good people on earth are devotees, and the devotees make me feel like crap and offer no comradery or even just some simple human friendship or compassion, and showing emotions other than so-called “bliss” is seen as illusion, what to do? Also if I was feeling despondent or had a problem, I was made to feel like it is because I just didn’t love God and was too rapped up in my so-called lusty or material desires. I started to develop a great deal of guilt within myself.
So imagine this scenario: I felt guilty because I was just too “materially contaminated” to appreciate my fortune of having the so-called “sat-sangha”, but the rest of the world is full of demons and “atheists” (i.e. people who don’t believe in Krishna), where was I to go?
Anyway, I finally got the courage to leave, but like I said it took me years to become “normal” again. By normal I mean, just to be able to have friends again with out feeling guilty about it. Or To show love and be loved by my family again without feeling like I was “ in maya”.
Also, HK-ism has an intense obsession with foods. I mean to say, in HK-ism, meat eating is strictly forbidden. If someone is a meat eater, then they are considered to be basically a demon. Meat eating is considered the worst sin and it is taught that meat eating contaminates a person’s consciousness to an extreme degree. Not only are devotees forbidden to eat meat (meat, fish, poultry, and eggs are all forbidden as meat), many other foods are considered “tomasic” and contaminating to the consciousness, foods like onions, garlic, mushrooms, and anything fermented. They believe that to eat any of these makes one “low class” and contaminated, and unfit to associate with. Plus, it is taught that a devotee is strictly forbidden to eat anything not first ritualistically offered to Krishna. Food not offered to Krishna is called “bhoga” and “full of sin”, and anyone who eats “bhoga” is also contaminated. These obsessive food restrictions further alienate devotees from associating with anyone else besides the members of their group. Anyone who doesn’t follow these strict dietary codes is considered “low-class” and a potential source of contamination.
This leads me to another aspect of the HK philosophy which has a detrimental affect on one’s life and outlook in my opinion.
2) The HK philosophy is constantly obsessing about the idea of how this material world is a place of suffering and everything material is temporary and illusory. Everything material is temporary and the source of suffering. Material relationships, especially family relationships, are seen as the greatest source of misery. Marriage is seen as a depressing consolation for weak minded people who “can’t control their sex desire”, and even described as “legal prostitution”. But at the same time because of the philosophy of reincarnation, it was taught by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami that we have been “stuck” in this prison of a world for an endless amount of life times, “from time immemorial”. The goal, he taught, is to become a “pure devotee” of Krishna, free from all material contamination and material desire, and to escape this endless cycle of birth and death. When a person trying to follow this notion realizes the realities of life and the natural desires that a human has, more and more guilt begins to develops to the point of self hatred and the hatred of ones family. If one is unable to “renounce” material desire, one is considered materially contaminated.
So the scenario is like this: One views the whole world as “anityam asukham lokam”; a place where everything is temporary and unhappy, “dukhalayam ashashvatam”; temporary and miserable, “abrahma bhuvana loka…”, all places in this material world are places of misery, etc. This world, the Swami taught, is a miserable place, a prison, where we are stuck since a time without beginning, because we are envious and hateful beings who hate God. But somehow or other, the soul is a secret lover of God but covered over by desire and envy. On one hand, we have been here struggling for practically an eternity, and on the other hand we could get out of it if “we really wanted to”. When one begins to realize that to give up all “material desires” (like love for one’s family or children), or the desire for “sense gratification” is not that easy for a human to give up, one begins to feel very guilty about it. When one’s whole existence is seen as “temporary and miserable”, and something to be renounced, but at the same time this goes completely against one’s human nature, it’s hard to function in the world. It’s unrealistic and unethical to be so world denying. It doesn’t work and In my opinion destructive psychologically. Oh sure, the devotees talk about “using everything in Krishna’s service” which is supposed to “purify” our activities. But it’s all still seen as temporary and “second-class” compared to complete renunciation. This dichotomy of hating the world but “being stuck in it” creates a very dysfunctional outlook on life.
This philosophy of “everything is temporary and miserable”, coupled with the superstitious belief in karma (i.e. what comes around goes around, everything thing we do good or bad will have an equal reaction in the future, in this life or the next), a devotee becomes practically unable to function in the world. One sees all endeavors as useless because they are temporary, but is somehow forced to act because they are stuck here like a prisoner. But everything that happens to oneself or others is just what they deserve, so why feel compassion for peoples suffering? They deserved it because of something they did before. Charity is seen as only tending to the “clothing” of the soul, i.e. the body being temporary is compared to clothing and to feed hungry people or show any kind of human kindness is seen as useless, because it doesn’t help them stop taking births and suffering, but only helps them in a bodily sense, which is compared to “beating empty husks of rice” or “decoration on a corpse”. Because of these philosophies one becomes callous to others and impersonal to the rest of the human race. It’s a very bleak outlook on life.
3) But for a devotee, especially living in the temples, they are always required to be in submission to their temple “authorities” who one is required to see as spiritually superior than oneself. No disagreement is allowed, and if one has a separate or contrary opinion to one’s temple “authorities”, one is made to feel guilty. One is said to be “in maya” and quotes from the founder are used to show how devotees have to be in complete submission to one’s temple “authorities” if one wants to gain spiritually. Generally if a devotee gets up the courage to leave a temple life, they are greatly discouraged from it with all kind of scare tactics. “If you leave you will be diving back into the material whirlpool.” (i.e. the HK slang term “blooping”) Back into the world of demons. Because, AC Bhaktivedanta said, “The temples are Vaikuntha (the ‘spiritual’ world), and outside them is the world of maya and illusion. And if one does leave the temple, they will potentially be dealing with all these swallowed fears and ideas for a while, and probobly still chained and willfully submissive to either a temple leader, Guru, or the founder's books; which will further drag out their inability to function properly in the world, and at the same time increase their guilt because they are even further "stuck in the well" of "material life". And they will feel guilty that they could'nt "stick it out" at the temple which is "the spiritual world", but had to take a step down from such an exalted postion of temple life and live outside in the "hellish material world", risking unlimited "material contamination" and reapeated rebirth.
So these are some “techniques”, ranging from philosophy to all out coercion.
But, as I said before, it’s interesting to note that the majority of devotees do move out and/or quite practicing all together. The philosophy is so full of contradictions. And it is not a very satisfying practice. Also there are many historical inconsistencies as well, (like their insistence on a so-called “disciplic succession” and the historical accuracy of the HK scriptures, or the questionability of the existence of a person named “Krishna”), but that would be a topic for another discussion.
I don’t know if this helps at all. It ended up just being a general critique of HK-ism. If you have a questions, send me an email:
patricklansdowne@yahoo.com |
Anonymous (63.201.69.218)
| | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 2:21 pm: |
|
First article in current issues of Cultic Studies Review (www.csj.org) is about the child abuse that occurred within the ISKCON. Multiple sex abuse, inadequate nutrition, etc. All in the name of union with the divine. A current lawsuit of 400 former children in ISKON. |
mentok (mentok)
New member
Username: mentok
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.225.33.52
| | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 7:46 pm: |
|
I've read through this thread and I have decided to comment. There are many misconceptions written by people, both pro and con.
The first fallacy is the one that is most often repeated by atheists or cynics about any religious organization. That fallacy is that only naive or weak minded people get involved with a cult, and in this case with the HK's.
That fallacy is easily refuted by simply investigating the membership of a group.
For the HK's this fallacy is easily shown, more so then many other groups.
First off is the large number of Indian's associated with this group. When this group first started in 1966, the membership was taken almost exclusively from the counter culture. When they changed from being a mom and pop store front cult, into becoming the darlings of the counter culture, their wealth and size grew quickly. Alan Ginsberg, often cited as the founding father of the counter culture, was a big promoter of the HK's at the very beginning. He had a personal friendship with the founder of the group due to his encountering similar groups in India previously. The Hare Krishna mantra is not limited to the HK's, it is a traditional mantra sung regularly throughout the diverse Hindu sects in India. Alan Ginsberg had brought back from India a harmonium, which is a small hand pumped organ introduced by the British to India. It became popular among religious sects in India as a musical instrument used to sing devotional hymns called Bhajans. Alan tells the story that he used to play the harmonium and sing the Hare Krishna mantra along with other Bhajans to his friends. He claimed that he did not really know what the mantra meant until meeting the founder of the HK's in 1966 in New York City.
He suggested to the Swami that the best course of action to enlarge his group was to go to San Francisco and Berkeley where "the scene" was becomming world famous as the center of the counter culture. So his followers went there with Alan. Alan then organized the "Mantra-Rock Dance" at the Avalon Ballroom. He persuaded the leading San Francisco bands to perform for free. The concert was a benefit to raise funds to establish an HK temple in Haight Ashbury. Participants included the Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Janis Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding company, Moby Grape etc. Timothy Leary, Owsley, and all the luminaries of that scene went. Here is the poster for the concert Mantra Rock Dance.
The HK temple quickly became identified with counter culture cool. Their temple in the Haight became the place to go and get free vegetarian food day and night for the hippies. They received world wide media coverage when the networks and news agencies covered the scene, particularly the summer of love.
George Harrison of the Beatles noticed the media coverage and wanted to meet them due to his interest in Indian mysticism. When the Swami sent a few of his followers to London to open a temple, George found out and visited them. John Lennon was taken with the group as well. The Swami and 10 or so followers were invited to live at John's estate in the English countryside. They stayed for a month and were in the process of building a small temple on John's property until Yoko became fed up. At that point George donated a large estate in the countryside to the Swami and his followers. It is still today their U.K headquarters.
As you may know George became a devoted follower. He recorded numerous songs on all his post Beatles albums about Krishna, or the HK philosophy. The most famous of course is "My Sweet Lord". He donated millions of dollars and the HK's exploded from a tiny sect with a handfull of small temples into a large world wide organization within a few years. Numerous people and celebrities were intrigued by George Harrison's promotion of the HK's because the Beatles were like Gods back then. This translated into a huge publicity coup for the cult, both in the west and in India. Disney star Hayley Mills became a follower, Chrissie Hynde, many punk rock stars like Poly Styrene, many leading musicians and actors in Europe and Latin America became followers as well. And numerous children of the rich and powerfull around the world became followers as well. Alfred Ford, Henry Ford's great grandson is still a mover and shaker in India promoting HK projects. In India the HK's became instant celebrities.
The Swami with his world famous disciples and rich followers caused a sensation in India. India's leading politicians, industrialists, royal families etc, in droves, became "Life Members" of the sect. This was where they donated a large amount of money and received privileges at the HK temples anywhere in the world.
This was important to them because for over 20 years the HK temples outside of India were the only Hindu temples. Hindu communities all over the world arose near the HK temples, their social/religious scene was centered around the HK temples. They did not all belong to the same religous tradition as the HK's, but since the HK temples were the only **traditional style** Hindu temples outside of India, the Indian diaspora congregated there anyways.
It is no longer like that. Now there are numerous Hindu temples outside of India. But from the late 60's till the 80's, the HK's were the only game in town for devote Hindus who wanted to take part in a Hindu religious service and social setting outside of India for the most part.
Because the Indian diaspora is quite wealthy, in fact the wealthiest ethnic group in America, the HK's became the recipients of vast wealth. Their political power in India grew exponentially. They built huge lavish temples all over India. Whenever they had an event the countries leading politicians would be there, they would give speeches and open temples etc. India's richest family the Hindujas paid for their lavish temple complex on a hill overlooking New Delhi, the prime minister of India gave a speech at the grand opening, which was attended by all the Indian big politicians, celebrities, wealthy, royals etc. Here is his speech New Delhi speech.
In India the HK's position is unlike any other sect. Their temple building is unequaled. Their free food program is being integrated into an All India free food program for the nations scool children, here is the website showing the President of India feeding kids at an HK program Food program in India.
The sects influence in India cannot be overstated, as well as their influence around the world among the Indian communties. In South Africa which has a large Indian community the HK temple recieves over 1 million Indian visitors over a 3 day religious festival on Krishna's birthday. In England they will recieve over 200,000 thousand Indians for a similar event. In Bangalore India they will recieve 2-3 million people for a similar event, it's the same anywhere in the world with a large Indian population.
In India the countries top athlete, movie stars, royals, politicians, etc, all promote the group as avid members. The sect is constantly in the newspapers receiving tons of free publicity by life members who own media groups. Essentially the HK sect in India has become the sect of the elite. India's wealthiest families and most famous celebrites are big supporters.
So what went so wrong everywhere else, outside of the Indian communities ?
Money corrupts. When the HK's went from a tiny sect with no money into a world famous sect with the world's famous and wealthy supporting them, and with India's elites supporting them, this had a profound effect on the people who were in charge of the HK sect.
The Swami was an old man, he was almost an invalid, and spent his time in writing books and giving lectures. He left the management of the sect to his followers.
When the size and wealth of the sect exploded, the leaders of the sect went from being ex hippies from Haight Ashbury and Greenwich Village, into managing a world wide phenomena, this transformation took place over the span of 5 years.
The leaders were not chosen as leaders by the Swami based on competence. They were chosen on the basis of his closeness with them. Essentially what happened is that the handfull of original hippies who were there in the very beginning, before they had any money or fame, and who had lived closely with the Swami, and who the Swami knew before gaining a large following, those few became his trusted lieutenants.
He gave to those few original hippy followers, the management of a wealthy world wide organization.
They were not all so devoted, spiritually speaking, as it turned out. The Swami did not want to be bothered with running the sect. He was sick and spent his time in his writing. Most of the leaders were totaly unqualified to run a large organization. They would put friends in positions of power, they would neglect the schools and ignore complaints because their friends were running them, they made mistake after mistake after mistake, they mismanaged.
In India though they prospered.
And then the Swami died. He started the sect in 1966, it became huge by 1970, and he died in 1977.
From that point on the HK's have gone through a couple of incarnations. Almost all of the original leaders have left, many in disgrace.
There have been many schismatic groups started by ex members, other groups headed by old Indian swamis from the same tradition in Indian, have gained a wide following among the sects world wide following. There is no longer a single HK sect, not that there ever was anyways. In India there had always been numerous sects within the same HK tradition. The one that came to the west and became world famous, for a long time was the only world wide HK sect. Now there are many.
While some of you may have a problem with their beliefs, my points have not been about subjective beliefs. They have been about the recent history of the sect and refuting the idea that "naive and weak minded" people are the only people who get involved.
The membership includes every social and intellectual strata of society. From hippies to Nuclear physicists, from Royalty to Rock stars, from Academics to trust fund elites, from Doctors to politicians, every type of person imaginable.
The common denominator is only one, belief in the philosophical message.
(Message edited by mentok on December 25, 2004)
(Message edited by mentok on December 25, 2004) |
yahshua (yahshua)
Junior Member
Username: yahshua
Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 207.44.154.35
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 4:33 am: |
|
Other sheep I have, that are in this fold...they will find with my set apart ones, the true light that they could not find with the sorcerers of ISKCON.
I say to my true followers, they are blessed when men say all manner of evil against them falsely for the sake of My Name, for in the same way evil men spoke against the prophets that were before them. They are to rejoice and leap for joy, for great is their reward in heaven.
These false ones that speak against my People, or who offer themselves as blind guides, apart from my true Way, I say are those spoken of by the prophet Jeremias...
Jer. 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning,
That they may hear?
Indeed their ear is uncircumcised,
And they cannot give heed.
Behold, the word of the LORD is a reproach to them;
They have no delight in it.
Jer. 6:11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD.
I am weary of holding it in.
“I will pour it out on the children outside,
And on the assembly of young men together;
For even the husband shall be taken with the wife,
The aged with him who is full of days.
Jer. 6:12 And their houses shall be turned over to others,
Fields and wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land,” says the LORD.
Jer. 6:13 “Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
Jer. 6:14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly,
Saying, “Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace.
Jer. 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed;
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the LORD.
Jer. 6:16 ¶ Thus says the LORD:
“Stand in the ways and see,
And ask for the old paths, where the good way is,
And walk in it;
Then you will find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it,
Then you will find rest for your souls.
My old Way is on the earth again;
Peace and healing can be found there,
My Abba sets the lonely in families,
He heals the brokenhearted and weary ones.
As my People of old were one in mind and heart,
and walked in one Way, together with me, sharing all things with one another, and also sharing in my suffering together with me,
so is it once more with my holy ones that I am raising up. All things spoken of by all my holy prophets since the world began are being restored and fulfilled through my sent ones.
He who hears them, hears Me; and he who hears Me, hears Him who sent Me.
He who rejects them, rejects Me; and he who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me.
The Way to My Way can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org |
doug (doug)
Intermediate Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 263
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 141.153.134.232
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 10:18 pm: |
|
RE: "YAHSHUA"
This is a teaching from the communities Apostle "Yoneq", otherwise known as Eugene Elbert Spriggs, that "YAHSHUA" (and David Alaxander in other places) in his above post is prosletizing for.
For more info see "Twelve Tribes" on this web site.
Execution of Justice
(Letter from Elbert concerning discipline and the seed of Abraham)
The reason Isaac was so willing to let his father sacrifice him was because he had
been raised his whole life knowing that he did not belong to himself, but belonged to his
father, and he was not living for himself, but living for his father. Hephzibah is coming to
understand that she is living for her father and belongs to him. The other day she was
having great difficulty being obedient to his command: not to suck her thumb in bed.
Elbert asked her to stick out her thumb because he was going to cut it off. He took a
huge pair of scissors and came toward her. She was terrified, but (after receiving her
discipline) she willingly stuck out her thumb to be cut off rather than let it cause her to
stumble in her obedience to her father. Elbert didn’t actually cut it off, but he wants
Hephzibah to understand that it is better to have your hand cut off now rather than later.
He wants her to be saved.
It is absolutely necessary to raise our children to know that they do not belong to
themselves, but to their father. How else can they believe that they don’t belong to
themselves except by training them as our Heavenly Father trains us to believe this. We
only “regain our true life” if we lose our false and criminal life. Whoever wants to save
Execution of Justice Page 6
1900.00.16-L01.DOC 020612.1326
his life will lose it, and whoever loses it for My sake shall find it. Abraham received back
the promise only after he had killed his only son the only son who could bring about the
promise. Abraham had faith to surrender his only heir. Abraham was tested. He endured
under trial to see whether he would obey (Heb 11:17-19; Gen 22:1; Jms 1:12). Abraham
obeyed by faith for he heard God say, “Abraham, take your son, your only son Isaac,
whom you love, and go sacrifice him.”
The error of “the local church” and many churches is in allowing doctrine to
substitute for obedience. We can do as they say, but not as they do, for they do not truly
discern the Body of Messiah though they have much wonderful doctrine. Without seeing
Gen 18:19, the Body of Messiah doesn’t make sense.
Note: Elbert is not the little girls father but is the apostle of the community. I don't see a close resemblance to his lying to a little girl and teaching the faith that Abraham had in Isaac.
David responded on Dec 21
I don't know anything about the above...but I DO KNOW that the truth that sets men free can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org
It is for Christians Only. Truth will always be attacked. Those who are wise will not be put off by such things. The fact is, anyone who wants to see the fruit of our lives can visit us at anytime; and see that our children are some of the most wonderful on the whole earth. As the Word says, "wisdom is justified by her children". Sincerely, david
My reply Dec 22
David
I don't know anything about the above…
Are you saying you don't know if Sprigs taught that and if it is one of the communities teachings or you don't know if there is anything wrong with what was alleged in the teaching CD that Jacob took from the community?
"Yahshua"
Was your apostle speaking from the holy spirit when he threatened with a large pair of scissors to cut off the terrified little girls thumb and did lying to her to scare her teach her the faith of Isaac with Abraham? Is that why Isaac trusted his father? Because someone terrified him with a lie? |
ex_yathed (ex_yathed)
Intermediate Member
Username: ex_yathed
Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.183.33.235
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 7:04 pm: |
|
As you can see, David Derush has taken my warnings to all the boards as a chance to recruit for his cult which claims they are the Only Ones and the Only Way and if your not with them, your going to the Lake of Fire for eternity or to the first death to pay for your own sins if you can. They are just like the rest of the cults on the factnet boards.
To see both sides of the story go to
http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/
or if you wish, you can contact me personally at exyathed@yahoo.com |
remmy (remmy)
New member
Username: remmy
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 203.164.52.6
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 7:27 am: |
|
apart from the sad story of these abused kids, the funny thing is these people from western countries are totally fooled by some Indian guru lol. As an Indian I knew what indian gurus are all about. Money and sex. those kinds of abuse always happens here in india from religious ashrams to premier institute like IIT and jawaharlal Nehru University. No educated Indian people believe in these bullshit unless they themselves bargain from these gurus and I cant stop laughing how western educated people can be fooled  lol. } |
mksugumaran (mksugumaran)
New member
Username: mksugumaran
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 210.212.245.147
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 7:31 am: |
|
I want to say onething "That beggars in India are made into Billionaires by western forigners. I have also seen many forign Billionaires became beggars without single money by donating their wealth to the beggars from India. I have seen so many people posting their present beggerly position in this board who are fooled by Indian gurus from Yogananda Institute in 1930's to the Recent Mata Amritanada (amma who is the only uneducated lady from Kerala state of India and she has been honoured by United Nations Organization also. See the status of UNO). |
blue_jackal (blue_jackal)
New member
Username: blue_jackal
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 216.100.132.124
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 10:51 am: |
|
I understand what you are saying about Indian beggers turning into bellionaires, but if some one has been able to get UNO credentials; he or she must have done some good for the world's cause.
Don't you agree? Or do you think the whole UNO thing is a bogus idea? Everybody is stupid, only yourself is the enlightened one? |
mksugumaran (mksugumaran)
New member
Username: mksugumaran
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 210.212.245.147
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 4:37 am: |
|
Hi blue_jackal,
No I don't think I am the enlightened one. I know that every one is God in their inner core including you and me. If I think I am the enlightened one it is only ego like Jesus, Krishna and so many other people. Yes it is the fact that Indian beggars turning into billionaires in foreign countries. Because The real Indian saints live with thier simple dress and materials but rich in their sprituvality. They don't go to forign lands and get a single money as donation or anyother means from anybody. For Indian saints getting donation is equal to begging on the road and it is a sin. If somebody is geeting money from somebody as a donation and donating a part of that money to some public services to get fame and publications it is not correct. If this type of act gets UNO credentials, Really it is Nonsense. In forign countries nobody can see a beggar on the street but the donations are going on. Who is the receiver of donations? He/she is the beggar. Can't he/she earn money for his/her own life and if she/he can earn extra money he/she can make donations to anybody that type of Credential is correct for UNO. If somebody is getting money in the name of sprituality or religiousness it is a way of getting enrichment by fooling others. If UNO is giving awards to those enriched people for their doings for any Cause their is some corruption in it. Do you know that recent news that the son of Kopiannan is invaoled in a scandal of issuing food for Oil to Iroq case. Similarly these funny people give money to buy an UNO official for getting their award. A lot of things are happening. You it is all the people who are interested in money, power, Wealth, slaves to be in a circle around them. They don't know the sin of it. First of all those people that is who gets donation from others in the name of Sprituality don't know god by a single mean, because those who know god nothing is greater than that. Those who know god know god in others also and they give more respect to god in others. They critisize others means to make them aware of god within them. I always hate these beggars turning into billionaires in the name of Sprituality or Religiousness. I you are the one like that I hate you also. If you are supporing them you are a stupid only out of your ego. |
blue_jackal (blue_jackal)
New member
Username: blue_jackal
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 155.57.254.1
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
|
It looks like you are very jealous of those who are making it big by going abroad and collecting money from rich dirt-bags and using that money to help poor people in India.
Mother Teresa had done the same. Of course, they have to keep some portion of it (collection) for organizational overhead and on top of that they have to eat, dress and fly around too.
Only thing we have to look out is the ‘corruption’ amongst them. And I am sure if there is any, it will come out in the open some day, like those Ananda Marga folks and the example you gave about the son of UN chief Kopi Anan. Until now, none had been able to hide their bad karma, don’t you agree?
Anyways, how is the weather? Are you posting from Delhi or Madras? Your ip address 210.212.245.147 definitely looks Indian. I was/am an Indian too but I am posting from San Francisco. Good luck! |
mksugumaran (mksugumaran)
New member
Username: mksugumaran
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 210.212.245.147
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 3:01 am: |
|
I am from India and posting from Madras only. You are an Indian. I don't know from which native place is yours in India. I have seen lot of postings in this message board by some individual forigners who have lost all their property and wealth to the Organizations in the Indian Names and the way the the people let out to the roads after getting all their wealth seems very serious to me. Because in India it is common that anybody can cheat anybody. Most of the politicians are cheating the public money. Most of the Organization in the name of Spirituality also cheating money from others. No forigner is involved in India in such activities. For example mother theresa has not allowed any indian rich people to the roads by taking away all the money from them. But I have seen lot of rich people donated their all property to the Indian based organization and started living in the Organization itself and when they want to leave from that organization they felt that they have no money, no bank account and the organization is giving only food and clothes and what to do ? is the situation and many of such helpless people have started one organization with the help of somebody to help those coming out of those organizations. They are all in the name of Indian names namely Nityananda, Yoganada, Mukthananda, Iskon and many others. I used to post message to them that in India if some man in safron dress is seen in temples we used to pay them 10 paise to 1 rupee only like beggars. But you people donated all your wealth to those beggars foolishly and now you become beggar and the real beggar become a billionaire. They also accept and feel for their stupid decision of donating the wealth. That is why I am angry about our Indian based Organizations in forign countries for their act. You are in San Francisco from India, I hope you should be an engineer from IIT or some institutes from India doing technical work and earning money from your hard work. You can donate your money. But as Indian you will not be fooled by any such organizations and you will not donate all your wealth to those organizations and you will donate only a small amount from your earnings to them. But if you are a man from India running such organization definitely you will get all the wealth from the forigner and let him in the street. You Know one Indian Idiot from USA came to Chennai and started one Course in name of DCOM for Rs.100000/= and gauranteed JOB after 4 months of above course and Cheated some Crores of Rupees. He has been arrested by police but no news about him and no money is retuned to the sufferers. I think he would have given some portion to the Police and politicians and would have started his business in some other area by some other name. I am also a P.G. in Compuer Aided Structural Engineering. You can see my concept of god in my website "http://www.cadmax.co.in/god.htm" and see other features of my site also. Thanking you, Yours friendly, mksugumaran |
blue_jackal (blue_jackal)
New member
Username: blue_jackal
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 155.57.254.1
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
|
Yes MK, I agree with you about educating people on this matter. But I guess there are some genuine babas out there, who can provide some spiritual relief to the mass of over stressful minds in this insane materialistic west.
But, I am more interested in a human being rather than an invisible god. If that human being can bring me some good feelings then I don’t mind spending couple hundreds bucks. I consider it buying something from a store in the exchange of some dollars, that’s it. Now if you call me fool for that, I don’t mind, really! It’s me who is getting the benefit, not you.
There are some others who will empty all their life savings to become beggars and be happy that way. I have no problem with that too. Hey, it’s their call! Do you think you can help them by writing about this on the internet? It won’t work my friend.
Now about myself, yes, I am from India (Siliguri, West Bengal). I wrote “I was/am an Indian” that means I gave up my Indian citizenship in 1976 and became an American citizen but applied for an Overseas Indian citizenship early this year. I haven’t got my application approved yet but I have already started thinking that I have become an Indian again. Holly cow!
No, I am not an Engineer but a IT professional. I used work for IBM in the late 70’s and later moved on with GE. I also worked with Dolby Stereo for couple of years. I got bored with sound circuits and I am into computers again. I don’t mind people call me an engineer because I do the same thing as an engineer does. But I would like to remind them my position. It’s called honesty!
You can reach me via email: blue_jackal0@yahoo.com if we get disconnected or this server goes down. (read zero not alpha o in my email ID..blue_jackal zero)
Yours truly,
Blue |
mksugumaran (mksugumaran)
New member
Username: mksugumaran
Post Number: 14
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 210.212.245.147
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 2:22 am: |
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Thank you Blue, you are in computer field now and honesty is your position. I wrote down your e-mail address also and send you mail also.
As you told there are genuine babas. Those Babas know the secret of presence of god in every being after knowing the presense in them first. The ego created out of name, study, Job, Money, material, power etc. are the (mayas) obstructions in knowing the god in ourselves. They are not obstructions if you leave your ego out of them. In fact they are the tools to know the truth. As you say there is no invisible god in the world. The god is visible in all the forms to the Genuine Babas. In my previous posting you could have seen GOD means Great Omnipotent Design. The designer is the one who is away from macine or mechanism (The philosophy of Creator). The design is the one which is working within the machine or mechanism. In that way the God is present in every thing as Design but not as Designer(Creator) who is away from it.
I will give you an example. You are the one who designed an Aeroplane first in the world(imagine). Whether you will go in that first or allow others first to fly in that. If you have doubt (dishonest) in your mind you will allow others to fly first, but in reality you would have created aeroplane for you to fly as birds only. What it shows if god created man means it is for his only wish to live as human being. God has created bird means it is for his only wish to live as flying living being. The Genuine Babas won't travel in aeroplane and they will travel in the form of bird. I hope I conveyed some thing to you in this. You can also send your postings to my e-mail address in "Feedback" of my website "http://www.cadmax.co.in" or you can post any thing in "discuss" section of my above website. |
scottyinglis (scottyinglis)
New member
Username: scottyinglis
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 218.101.117.227
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 8:37 am: |
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WARNING!!! Stay away from the Hare Krishnas!!!
I first got involved with them due to their $3 lunches that they run at my university. I was interested in Hinduism at the time, and I saw that they had meetings on Sundays at the university clubs and societies centre. I went along, and I really liked the teachings and the chanting. The chanting is what hooks most peoople. It produces a feeling of euphoria which feels like it comes from God. It doesn't. Don't be fooled.
Anyway, I continued to go to their meetings, read their literature and chant that mantra. Fortunately I live in Dunedin, a small city, so there was no temple, just the Sunday programmes. I was completely blown away when I visited a temple in Christchurch. Everything was totally different than what I experienced in Dunedin. Everything seemed so blissful, and I felt that I belonged here. It felt like you were actually in the prescene of God. How wrong I was!
I bought some of the devotional items, and had long conversations with the devotees about the faith. They also believe in Jesus Christ, and they believe that the Bible is the literal Word of God (however they also believe that the Bhagavad-Gita is also the Word of God). Being so naive, I accepted this as truth.
I returned back to Dunedin, full of zeal about the rituals and services performed at the temple. My spiritual advisor (I won't use the term 'spiritual master' as, thank Christ, I didn't undergo actual initiation into the cult) lent me a set of religious items so that I could perform one of the rituals (arati) that I had seen at the temple. I also started trying to chant the mantra on my beads each day.
A few months later, I returned to the temple for a festival with a devotee friend who had been in the movement for several years. I stayed at a backpackers a block away from the temple and for the two days I was there, I attended the full morning service (starting at 4:30 am). I bought the robes and tilak (forehead paint) and at the festival celebration on the second night, I looked like all of the other devotees.
After the festival, I continued wearing my robes to the Sunday meetings in Dunedin (apart from Jambavati (my spiritual advisor), everyone else wore ordinary clothes. I continued my daily worship of a statue of their god Krishna at home, and still chanted the mantra on the counting beads.
However, I began to have doubts about the principles that they live their life by, as I could not conform to several of them (namely the prohibition of meat eating and sex), so I investigated Islam and Judaism, seeing if either of them would be better suited to me. They weren't so I returned to the Hare Krishnas. However my friend is a choir singer at St Paul's Anglican Cathedral, and she invited to me to one of their weekday services. At first I tried to compare it to the Hare Krishna service, but after attending some Sunday services, I seriously considered becoming a Christian. Due to my intense like of rituals, the Holy Spirit guided me to the Catholic church, and I am presently going through the initiation process to be baptized.
Since I turned to Jesus and accepted Him as my Saviour, He opened my eyes and showed me that Krishna Consciousness is not the true way to God. Several things came to my realization.
First, idolatry. There are statues in the temple. Every day devotees worship them
and pray to them. This is a direct contradiction to the Third Commandment “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image…Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:4-5) The LORD also states in Isaiah 42:8 – “I am the LORD:
that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” However ISKCON tries to get around this rule by saying that God (Krishna) is present in the statue. But if this is the case, then how come it
doesn’t move or speak? When Moses and the Israelites were in exile, the LORD spoke to Moses from the Ark of the Covenant, atop which He was always present. So if Krishna is present in the statue, then how come he doesn’t talk to the devotees?
Second, the Maha-Mantra. Jesus said to his disciples “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much
speaking.” (Matthew 6:7) The Maha-Mantra is exactly that. Vain or meaningless repetition. It doesn’t really mean anything. I have analyzed the grammar of the Maha-Mantra and have come to this conclusion. The Maha-Mantra consists of three words. Krishna and Rama
are(supposedly) names of God. Hare refers to Radha – a goddess, which is a clear violation of the First Commandment “I am the LORD thy God…Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:2-3) So these words – Hare, Krishna and Rama, are all in the vocative case (case used for addressing
someone). So basically, if the Maha-Mantra was translated into English, it would be as follows:
O Radha O Krishna O Radha O Krishna
O Krishna O Krishna O Radha O Radha
O Radha O Rama O Radha O Rama
O Rama O Rama O Radha O Radha
It is just a list of names in different combinations. It isn't a prayer.
In the chanting and mantra meditation, this mantra is repeated over and over again, with just a few short prayers to finish. If this is not vain repetition, then I don’t know what is. It is like going up to someone, greeting them and then walking away without saying anything else. Wouldn’t Krishna feel annoyed that you had called on him but then said nothing else to him?
Third, Krishna as being the Judeo-Christian God.
Historically, Krishna was a cowherd boy who lived in India 5,000 years ago. However, it is not possible that he was God. When Solomon built the Temple, he said “But will God indeed
dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?” (1Kings 8:27). From this verse, it is clear that God cannot dwell on earth, except in the form of the Holy Spirit.
Also, if Krishna was God, then he has violated his own commandments. God can violate His commandments if it is really necessary (e.g. Sodom and Gomorrah) but he would not do it as a prank like Krishna did. He stole his mother’s butter and fed it to the monkeys, breaking the commandment “Thou shalt not steal” (Exodus 20:15). When he stole the gopis' clothes and hid up a tree with them, he broke the commandment “Thou shalt not commit
adultery” (Exodus 20:15). Jesus Himself stated “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28). God does not have a sex drive, so He has no need to see young women naked.
Therefore Krishna is not God, because he obviously does.
“God is Spirit: and they that worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). From this verse it is clear that we must worship God as a spirit, and not as a blue cowherd boy.
Fourth, Worship of Gurus/Caitanya. Jesus states
that no other prophets shall come after Him (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 67). So then, what is Caitanya, who appeared 1500 years after Jesus? If no more prophets will appear until the Second Coming of Christ, then Lord Caitanya is obviously a false prophet. God would not
contradict His own teaching by appearing in secret, because when Christ comes again, he “shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” (1Thessalonians 4:16) Also, in ISKCON, gurus or spiritual masters are worshipped. But according to the Bible, worship is reserved for God alone: “For thou shalt worship no other
god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God” (Exodus 34:14). And let us not forget that a human spiritual master cannot bring us to God. Only someone who is pure and sinless can do that – i.e. Jesus. For He states: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6). Here it is clear that Jesus is the only way to God: we must accept
Him as our personal Saviour in order to be saved. For He rose from the dead on the third day, and He ascended into Heaven, whereas Krishna is still in his tomb. No-one else in history has had such a great impact on the world as Jesus. Our calendar has been changed because of him – B.C and A.D. Millions of people around the world follow Him, and those that don’t have most likely still heard of Him. But most people in the world would not have heard of Krishna, or if they have, it is in the context of an alternate, eastern religion. Virtually no-one in the West outside of ISKCON has
heard of Caitanya or Prabhupada. So thus it is clear that Jesus is the true Son of God, the Word of the Lord and Saviour of all mankind.
From these examples it is clear that while the Hare Krishnas accept the Bible as the Word of God, they blatantly disregard the commands of Yahweh, the One True God, who revealed Himself to us in His Son Jesus Christ. Therefore one cannot accept the Bible as Divine Revelation but accept the Bhagavad-Gita as a higher revelation and ignore what the Bible says.
Don't be fooled by the euphoria that occurs during the chanting and temple services. It feels like it's from God, but it's not. The only true peace is the Peace of Christ (John 14:27). If it's not from God, then who's it from? It's obvious: Satan. "Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light"(2Corinthians 11:14). Yahweh is the only true God, those who worship other gods are actually worshipping demons. "These sacrifices which people make [to other gods] are made to demons and not to God" (1Corinthians 10:20).
So don't get involved with them! It will seem good when you start, but as you progress they will expect you to shut yourself away from the outside world, abandon all association with those who are not Krishna devotees and only read literature written by devotees.
May God deliver all the devotees of Krishna from this false influence and bring them to everlasting life in Christ Jesus. Amen. |
yaakov (yaakov)
Intermediate Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 406
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.148.234.6
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |
|
No-one else in history has had such a great impact on the world as Jesus. Our calendar has been changed because of him – B.C and A.D. Millions of people around the world follow Him, and those that don’t have most likely still heard of Him.
Mohammad also fits these criteria. The calendar was changed because of him, millions of people around the world follow him, and those that don’t have most likely still heard of him. |
mksugumaran (mksugumaran)
New member
Username: mksugumaran
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 210.212.245.147
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 5:23 am: |
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Dear Scottyinglis, You have stated a lot about ISKON and Lot about Jesus. But for me Both Jesus and Krishna have done a mistake. Both of them have claimed they are god or son of god. They really don't know others are also children of god. They are egoistic people. That is why both of them were punished with more sufferings at the time of death. Another thing that Time is measured in B.C. or A.D. through out the world. It is convenience of World people to have a standard time. Other than this calendar Every traditional countries have their own calendars. Chinese, Japanese, Indian and many more calendars are there and being used locally in their countries. Actually the B.C. and A.D. Calledar was introduced in all other countries when Europeans and English people powered and ruled the other countries. In fact there is no Time for holy saints. So don't be proung of B.C. and A.D. Show some mercy on Cruelty in the death of Jesus.
Yours,
mksugumaran |
overseas (overseas)
Intermediate Member
Username: overseas
Post Number: 363
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 164.143.244.33
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 6:19 am: |
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Scotty. I am glad to hear you were saved from Hare Krisna. MAy the Lord Jesus be with you. However, one does not have to mess with Hare cult to realise it's dead wrong. |
billibo (billibo)
New member
Username: billibo
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 196.25.255.210
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 3:54 am: |
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Can it Be That the Hare Krishnas Are Not Hindu? (Part 1 of 3)
ISKCON's Srila Prabhupada's edicts on religion are clear.
Hinduism Today/October 1998
There is a misconception," wrote His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in 1977 in Science of Self Realization, "that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not." In chapter three of the book [available from Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge, North Carolina 27046 USA], this startling point is made several times: "The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."
Followers of Srila Prabhupada have assembled all of his letters, books, lectures, interviews and conversations on the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase [also available from Bhaktivedanta Archives]. This CD-Rom database yielded 183 references to Hinduism, which were compiled and analyzed to understand Srila Prabhupada's point of view.
Often Srila Prabhupada would simply deny the existence of a religion called "Hinduism." He attributed the improper designation to "foreign invaders." At other times he acknowledged the existence of the faith, but considered it a hopelessly degraded form of the original Sanatana Dharma of the Vedas. In his April, 1967, New York lectures he remarked, "Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are all useless, dried-up branches of the Vedic religion." ISKCON, he believed, was the only true exponent of the Vedic faith today. In an interview given for Bhavan's Journal on June 28, 1976, he said, "India, they have given up the real religious system, Sanatana Dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble."
Part 2 to follow... |
billibo (billibo)
New member
Username: billibo
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 198.54.202.210
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 3:56 am: |
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Can it Be That the Hare Krishnas Are Not Hindu? (Part 2 of 3)
ISKCON's Srila Prabhupada's edicts on religion are clear.
Hinduism Today/October 1998
The Guru frequently explained his position, and acted upon his beliefs in establishing his dynamic society. At a 1974 Mumbai lecture, he declared, "We are not preaching Hindu religion. While registering the association, I purposely kept this name, 'Krishna Consciousness,' neither Hindu religion nor Christian nor Buddhist religion."
Srila Prabhupada was aware that the Indian community had a mistaken impression of his Hinduness. In a 1970 letter to a temple administrator in Los Angeles, he wrote, "The Hindu community in the West has got some good feeling for me because superficially they are seeing that I am spreading Hindu religion, but factually this Krishna Consciousness movement is neither Hindu religion nor any other religion." That remains the case today, for Srila Prabhupada left no successor with the authority to change his spiritual edicts.
So why does the general Hindu community mistakenly believe that ISKCON is a Hindu organization, when it never describes itself as such? Well, it sometimes does. During the recent ISKCON temple openings in New Delhi and Bangalore, where newspaper reports frequently identified the grand temples as Hindu, the ISKCON press releases, such as that of April 15, 1998, never used the H word. Yet, when Indian devotees serving at each of those temples were asked in late July by journalists for this article, they said it is a Hindu temple. The discrepancy between public perception and internal policy is further confused by the group's official exceptions to the non-Hindu position.
Part 3 to follow... |
billibo (billibo)
New member
Username: billibo
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 196.25.255.210
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 4:01 am: |
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Can it Be That the Hare Krishnas Are Not Hindu? (Part 3 of 3)
ISKCON's Srila Prabhupada's edicts on religion are clear.
Hinduism Today/October 1998
Faced with difficulties, ISKCON leaders have appealed to the Hindu community to back them up, as in a dispute over the Bhaktivedanta Manor in the UK or when being hassled by Christians in Russia and Poland. In appeals to judges and governments, the word Hindu is openly used. In other legal cases, including one to the US Supreme Court, ISKCON has attempted to counteract the "cult" label by claiming to be a traditional Hindu lineage, and asked other Hindus to affirm this in the courts. Other organizations who parted company with Hinduism, such as Transcendental Meditation and Brahma Kumaris, do not compromise their position under any circumstances.
What also sets ISKCON apart is its open repudiation and criticism of Hinduism, especially among members. There are reports of Hindus who joined ISKCON only to be taught to reject their family's religion. "Previously we were Hindus. Now we are Hare Krishnas," some said. At the same time, the organization often appeals to the Hindu community and businessmen for financial support of its social programs and political help to protect ISKCON from detractors.
Considering ISKCON's appearances--member's dress, names, bhajana, festivals, worship, scripture, pilgrimage, temple building, and so forth--it's little wonder that so many have assumed they are Hindus. To find out they are not will certainly surprise many--Hindus and non-Hindus alike.
It may even surprise a few Hare Krishnas themselves! |
kristalux
New member
Username: kristalux
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 217.162.168.12
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:56 pm: |
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Im really ashamed for the sinful activities of another people!!! But child abuse occured everywhere in this horrible world, no one of you are free of lust, envy, anger, frustration, thats why you are writing in a negative way.
OK It happened in the Hare Krishnas community also, hopefully it wont happen again. What about the children in Irak, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc can they live a normal life now? why are focusing in a group of stupid people who joined a spiritual movement? If we see that they DONT have those practices as part of their religion, what I can noted and understand is that some false followers did something horrible like raped and tortured children, but we cant blame the whole religion because I had an experience with some Krishnas here in Switzerland and I have to tell, I was quite surprised how elevated and clean they can be.
So please,, dont take the name of Krishnas because you are envolving everybody who practice that religion. And their beliefs and cults helped many people to find peace, harmony and happiness.
How many of you are still eating animals? its not criminal? to give suffering to another living entity just because your tongue?soooo
NO VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN
NO VIOLENCE AGAINST ANIMALS AND
NO VIOLENCE AGAINST SINCERE PEOPLE AS HARE KRISHNAS! |
nandarani
New member
Username: nandarani
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 66.91.122.237
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 2:53 am: |
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Scotty Inglis, and Patrick Landsdowne, if you are still reading and participating at this site! I am responding to you! I have been guided to leave HK after 15+ years - moving towards Catholicism. Hope you are still on line. Please reply if you are! Scotty, are you now Catholic? Patrick, your post I know I will appreciate as I read it more closely - I need to go to bed now! Found this site by googling because I am looking for a mantra to chant, and I don't want to revert to HK - but that one's ingrained after many many many many hours of chanting it - far above 16 rounds a day! In fact, I think that chanting is what ultimately caused me to see I don't believe in anything the movement stands for - and sent me on my way to real fulfillment - out of the movement. I didn't plan on this, at all! It has been a long (basically becoming conscious took the entire time I was in the movement - not part of ISCKON, but initiated by a guru with ties to Sril Prabhupada. |
inkorrekt
Intermediate Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 208.54.15.1
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:02 am: |
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BAKTAARON: Can yu tell me who this sacrifice is?
SANSKRIT SCRIPTURES written 4000 years ago describe a perfect sacrifice. Who is this?
9 characteristics of the Prajapati Sacrifice:
1. The Sacrificial animal must be blameless Rgvedic Purusasukta 10:90, 1-15
2. A creeping plant of the forest must be weaved and put on its head.(Vedic rituals)
3. It should be closely tied up to the sacrificial pillar(Sayanacarya's Commentary on
Purusasukta. Rgveda 10:90:1-15)
4. Its four legs must be nailed and blood should be shed (Vedic Rituals)
5. The cloth which covers the animal should be shared by 4 priests
6. Its bones should not be broken
7. It should be given some wine
8. After the sacrifice, irt should be returned to life (Rgveda 10:90; 1-15)
9. Its meat should be eaten(Sathapathabrahmana 5.1.1.2)
According to the Vedas, Prajapati means the Supreme God. Prajapati Sacrifice means the Sacrifice of God himself. |
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