| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Hi can someone help me, I've just started a new job and my supervisor is a Mormon according to the other staff she has just met the "man of her dreams" and since then she has started to wear a white scarf on her head. I dont want to say anything because im new in the office but im kind of curious to know what thats all a about, thanks Mary-Jo T | ||
| Abc-123 |
Hi Mary-Jo. I'm not a member nor am I an authority on the LDS, but I do have realatives - one big part of my family are life long Mormons. As far as I know there is no significance to the white scarf. She probably just bought it, likes it, and started wearing it. The man in her life and the scarf are nothing more than coincidental. | ||
| Anonymous |
When I visited Provo years ago I was interested and amused at a huge rack of polyester missionary suits for sale in the U. Bookstore. | ||
| ashley |
there's no signifigance of a white scarf. I am Mormon... I'm sure that she must have just bought it and liked it. like the first response says... good luck with that. | ||
| Anonymous |
Why doesn't anyone answer my question? Why does it keep disappearing off theis site? Do mormons believe that man through spiritual progression can become perfect like God and then become a God just like Him? Is it mormon belief that God was once a man who became perfect and then created earth? Is it a mormon's goal to become a God? | ||
| Anonymous |
In response to Anonymous for November 9,2003. The Mormons do believe they can become a god along with other rather, um, interesting, teachings/beliefs There are several areas of beliefs that many Mormons themselves are unaware of such as that the Book of Mormon has been changed several times do to mistakes by the thousand (If these of God-inspired books why are there significant errors from early editions to present ones?) I have a cult book that discusses Mormon beliefs...if anyone is interested i'll be happy to post further information. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes. I'm interested. Please proceed. | ||
| Anonymous |
The text I have uses a question/answer format to analyze the Mormon religion in a light that shows their cultic/anti-christ[ian] beliefs. I'll summarize what I can from the questions I find are most important... "How did Mormonism originate and how important are supernatural revelations to the founding and sustaining of the Mormon Church?" Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, is said to have had devine revelations from God in 1820. However, it is documented that there have been "at least six contradictory versions of this key event" meaning that the official version of God's appearence to Smith took awhile to be correctly worded, per se. "Does Mormonism claim to be the only true church on earth? Doctrine and Covenants, one of the Mormon churches primary books, "emphasizes that Mormonism is 'the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.'" "Does the Mormon Church give biblical words an entiredly falso meaning?" Here are several examples of terms with changed meanings from those of Christians (definitions given here are those believed in the Mormon church) These definitions "represent true Mormon teaching as proven by an evaluation of standard Mormon theological works.": Christianity- sectarianism; a false and damnable apostate religion. God- "Elohim"; one of innumerable self- progressing bodily deities; formerly a man, a finite creature. In early Mormon theology, Adam ( of the Gorden of Eden) was considered by many Mormons as the true earth deity. Jesus Christ: a self-progressing deity ("Jehovah" of the Old Testament) and the first spirit child of "Elohim" and his wife. Holy Ghost- a man with a spiritual body of matter. Trinity- tritheistic; coordinated under general Mormon polytheism; thus the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are separate deities. The Gospel- Mormon theology. Born-again- water baptism into Mormonism. True salvation/eternal life/redemption- Exaltation to Godhood in the highest part of the celestial kingdom based upon individual good works and personal merit; exaltation incorporates ruling a new world and sexual procreation in order to produce spirit childrn who will eventually be embodied and inhabit that world, each then having the opportunity to be exalted. Death- geneally a step upward; death represents the possibility of a form of salvation (if not exaltation) for those who have never heard of Mormonism. Heaven- three "kingdoms of glory" comprising various spiritual gradations. Hell- generally purgatorial; possibly eternal for few (primarily apostate Mormons). Virgin birth- the birth of Christ through a physical sex act between God the Father (the Mormon earth god "Elohim" and Mary (hence, not a VIRGIN birth). Man- a preexistent spirit with the potential to earn Godhood by obedience to Mormon dictates. The scriptures- the Book of Mormon; Doctrine and Covenants; The Pearl of Great Price; and the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly" (Articles of Faith,8). The Bible- an erring and often unreliable inspired record, properly interpreted only by Mormons and only in light of Mormon theology. You can see these terms have definition that are anything but Christian. Would you like more detailed examples of true Mormon beliefs or would you prefer the rest to be even more simplified? | ||
| Anonymous |
Please proceed. | ||
| I believe Joseph Smith was a false prophet...God of the Bible bless you all |
It's me again...at the present I'm not giving examples about Mormon beliefs, however, I had an approximately 2 hour "conversation" with two missionaries from a local branch of the Mormon church and I did find some things out... Well, they do believe that lucifer (aka satan, the devil, etc.) and Jesus are brothers because "all were spirit children in the spirit world, etc., etc., etc." Umm, they believe the trinity is separate beings altogether. I questioned that if what they say is true then when i pray in Jesus' name, etc. I'm breaking the commandment about having "no other gods before me." They didn't say much inresponse. They insinuated that God is a universal god meaning, apparently that the god of the islamic, hindu, christian, mormon whatever is the same; we just have "different names for them." I find that personally infuriating. If I can remember more I'll be sure to type it up...I'm sure you know how hard it is to remember everything from a conversation well enough to write it in words without getting yourself "tongue-tied." Oh, they were surprised at my knowledge. I'm only 17 and they seemed to think I would beleve everything they said no questions asked because towards the start of our conversation one of the missionaries said that he thinks I "know more" than he "thought I did." he-he! My guess is that they thought they'd have me pulled in one, two, three because of my age and lack of knowledge, etc. Oh, and one more thing...Joseph Smith used a seerstone to translate the "golden plates." I questioned that too because it relates to sorcery, etc. but they said that it wasnt such a thing. I guess God was too busy to answer him; who knows what his explanation was for not using only what God supposedly told him. God bless you all. (I'm sure there are grammatical errors, etc. because sometimes my brain gets going faster than my fingers can type.) | ||
| Anonymous |
To: Dec 5th 2003 I am a cradle Mormon and my ancestry goes back to the restoration. I don't think you know what you are talking about, and the person who wrote whatever book you have has slanted information and has not asked any mormons the right questions. This person may have twisted the truthfulness of the answers to make it look negative. In fact all of the anti-mormon literature I have seen has been actual doctrine, however it all has been presented in such a way to make the presenter look so great and the church look fallaced. If any want real answers I invite you to look at both sides of any story and feel free to check www.mormon.org or www.lds.org | ||
| Anonymous |
Question remains for you to answer 12-19-9:53 am: is it mormon doctrine that man can become a god through spiritual progression? No wagging the dog. Yes or no! | ||
| Anonymous |
when i was 18 i started studying religion. mormonism included. what i found the most intriging was that they(total of 6 missionaries) could only site one verse in the whole Bible that tells of them. the verse says "I have other sheep to tend to" Don't you think that if God really wanted us to know about a future "prophet" He would have said a little more on the subject? Also joseph smith said that the new Jerusalum would be built in his lifetime in Minnesota, and when he was dying changed his mind and said that God couldnt make it happen because man was so evil. Well as far as i know God doesnt make mistakes and if He wanted something done then it would be done. these are just a couple of my problems with the mormon church, if you can call it a church. | ||
| Elder Warmfuzy |
Yes, Mormons do believe that man can become a god through spiritual progression. That is a non-debated straight-forward belief amongst mainstream Mormons. God loves us and wants us to be like him. Someday as long as we are faithful: read our scriptures, go to the temple, and follow the word of wisdom..., we will be equivalent to God and we can have our own planets where we can set up our Mormon beliefs on. | ||
| hope |
And the men will practice celestial polygamy? | ||
| Elder Warmfuzy |
Yes. It may be hard to understand know, but someday it will all make sense. | ||
| Anonymous |
Everyone who's not MOrmon... I just say, You should be! Cuase then you'd understand things! | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes "Mormons" believe they can become as God. God has his agency to choose right and wrong, so do we. Right there is an example of how we can become like God. Use your agency and choose the right | ||
| anonymous |
Man becoming God is blasphemy. It is a copy of Buddhist and Hindu beliefs of spiritual progression to a point of eventually becoming one with God. God can not do wrong. God is God. God is the Creator. We are the created. The created can not become the creator. Mormon's are not Christian and have no claim to be. They use Christ to lure the unaware into their legalistic cult. | ||
| hope |
Elder Warmfuzy, will the women get to have many husbands? Are you talking to me when you say some day it will make sense? I know Mormons claim to be Christians, but here is an example- besides the one anon just noted- where it seems this is a complete falsehood. I don't believe you will find this celestial polygamy in the Bible. Unless you're calling Joe Smith's book the Bible. | ||
| lds |
For any one who does not belive that mormons are christians, maybe you should try looking that word up. Christian- a believer in Jesus as the christ. or-having the qualities taught by jesus, as love and kindness. Now, how are mormons not christian? | ||
| anonymous |
Because the mormon belief is that man through spiritual progression (like buddhist/hindu reincarnation) can beome equal to God and Christ. That is not Christian, that is no where in the Christian Bible, that is just blasphemy. | ||
| Jim |
Boy all the misconceptions floating around here, Spiritual Progression: Going from the law of Moses "eye for an eye" to "love thy neighbor" is spiritual progression. Can't have a higher law without a lower law. Man's Potential: Acts 17:29, John 10:34, And Gal 4:7, What does it mean to be heirs? We get God's Porsche? I don't think so. He promised all that He has and I believe He means it and not in a materialistic way. Trinity: I think we just disagree on the literalness of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ and the term to act as one as described in John. 17:21-22. Bible scriptures I believe relate to the BOM: Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 37 relate to the Bible and the BOM coming together. Also, we all know there were people living in the Americas for thousands of years. Why couldn't they receive God's word and know of Jesus Christ? BOM went through thousands of grammer and spelling changes. It's a big book. How many translations did it take to make the Bible in English and how did men decide on the meanings of the translation just for the KJV? They did it by their best efforts and I think did a marvelous job! But it was still mans translation and we know their is only one who is perfect. BTW - the LDS Church uses the KJV of the Bible along with the BOM. Lastly, someone will probably interpret and translate everything I said as non-sense and nit-pic everything apart which is fine. It's your choice. But I ask that you open your heart and take the doctrinal blinders off and look at the HUGE amount of good the LDS church does with families, health, welfare, charity, etc. in the world and ask yourself if the fruit is good? Be honest with yourself then ask yourself where do good things come from? God Bless! | ||
| hope |
lds, I highly recommend the Hoth Diaries (on the internet) for an exciting journey of a German Mormon who came to this country in the 19th century and made it all the way to Brigham Young's Salt Lake City. It's truly an exciting account of the brave travel across the seas and across the United States. It starts off kind of slow, but really picks up steam. One cannot downplay the courage it took to travel so far on next to nothing, aside from faith. ...If you check it out, let me know what you think... | ||
| Anonymous |
What you speak of is speculation. You slide by the thorny blasphemous issue of a spiritually progressed mormon man becoming equal to God. So far as the works of some in the mormon church..... that is all they are is works. Many hindus and buddhists do good works. But does that make me want to be a hindu or buddhist? No. Mormons are Christian like Jews are Christian. They reject Christ as the one and only Son of God. | ||
| Anonymous |
2-15-12:58am, you have some serious issues. As an inactive member of the LDS church I can honestly say at least I am mature enough to respect the fact that the only thing the Mormon church has ever done for this world is try and make it a better place, for members and non-members. And as for the "works", and saying that that is all they are is works like thats some stupid waste of time, open your eyes and look around you! The only things that happen in this world that are positive whether you are aitheist or Buddhists are done through good works, and service for others. And I'm sure that if you stepped it back a pace and annalysed your own life you would admit to it, or maybe that is why you have that attitude that you have because you feel there has been no good works in your direction. People need to understand that there is so much more to life than hating. No matter who you are. | ||
| Anonymous |
To 2-19-04 2:36 am...... no hate here. hate is a dirty word to me as it is to any Christian. I see lds as deceptive. Advertising a free Holy Bible on tv to anyone and then sending along with the fiction called the book of mormon. Mormons are deceiving people who want to know of Christ into thinking joeseph smith's ravings are the word of God. John 3:16 speaks of faith in Christ being the only necessity for our salvation. Not works. Bragging of works is a sin. Speak to the world of Christ being the one and only Son of God. Don't brag about your good works. If the Holy Spirit dwells in you because of your faith in Christ, the works will be done. And if so do the will of God, don't brag about it. But works or having 3 wives (like the pseudo prophet joeseph smith claimed) will not get you into heaven. Talk to me of your faith, not in your works. Your claim includes the whole history of the Mormon church and all of it's members. Marrying 12 year old girls to a man in his 90's is not making the world a better place. I can only recommend to you, brother, that you denounce this heretical cult and become a real Christian. Do you accept Jesus Christ as the one and only Son of God and as your own personal saviour? Answer me please. | ||
| Anonymous |
everything I have read here and other Mormon basher sites is all just little symantics. The fact that the original translation needed to be edited for grammatical errors is not even worth mentioning as an argument against the gospel. The fact is; that Joseph Smith was uneducated and inspiration, most likely, doesn't come w/ grammar and spell check. Praying, "in Jesus' name, amen," is not breaking the commandment "no other gods b4 me". Jesus Christ is our advocate, and savior. Who else would we seal our prayers through? Does it really matter where we worship? A young lady posted a letter that stated she received a vision which, told her that it didn't matter which church u attended as long as u serve the Lord. Ur own site says this and yet, u attack mormons for worshipping where they feel comfortable. | ||
| Anonymous (172.203.79.34) |
You always avoid the question. Is it mormon belief that man through spiritual progression can become equal to God? | ||
| Ron Keaton (68.165.173.114) |
No, we can become like him. We will not be equall to god because as we grow we bring more glory to him. God will always be our Heavenly Father no matter how far we can progress. I want my children to be as great or better than me and so does Heavenly Father. But I will always be my childrens father and that position will never be taken from me nor our Heavenly Father. And if you are only 17 then you probably don't understand this principle. Line upon line, precept upon precept is how we learn. You don't have the whole picture so you don't understand. And your anti-mormon views are not part of Heavenly Fathers will, and are half truths. It is like saying since God creates everything then he created the Devil too! That sounds so terrible for a God that loves us, would create a Devil that would hurt us. But he did allow it. It's called Tough Love. If you don't have the whole picture you wont understand that either. Get off it Dude. You don't know jack about Morminism. You think you do but you only know enough to hurt yourself. If you want to know about the Latter Day Saint Faith ask someone in that faith. Dont go to a carpenter to learn physics. And don't go to a non-mormon to learn about mormons. And when you go to learn, don't try to teach or your mind won't be able to hear what is being said. Try going to school and take over a class from the teacher. You will be sent out for disturbing, especially a subject you don't understand. | ||
| Yaakov (12.8.126.145) |
]It is like saying since God creates everything then he created the Devil too! If not God, then who? I thought God was the only One that could create. | ||
| Ron Keaton (69.3.28.114) |
My point exactly! Of course Heavenly Father created the Devil. I was being sarcastic Showing how the creation of the devil can be used as a half truth. The same as people thinking we can not progress to be like our Heavenly Father. What else do they want to do after this life. Sit on a cloud for Eternity? Take a good book because eternity is a long time. | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.236.217) |
Ok, Ron answer me this. Is it mormon belief that God was once a man who became perfect then created earth and us. Then by us becoming perfect we can create our own world and create little people to worship us? | ||
| Chris Welton (4.41.50.181) |
Hello all, What an interesting discussion...*sigh* In the words of the Ronald McDonald Get-along gang, "Can't we all just get along?" For the record, I'm Mormon. I know, some of you will gasp and shudder, but it's true, and I make no effort to pretend otherwise. Here's my take, and feel free to ask me questions. I can't promise I know everything, and I won't even pretend to try (unlike many people of several different religious sects), but I promise I'll answer truthfully, even if the answer is "I don't know." Do I believe that we can become Gods and Goddesses, like our Heavenly Father? Yes, *with* lots and lots and lots of help, prayer, faith, and work. Do I know exactly how that works? Absolutely not. Do I claim to pretend it doesn't sound strange? Nope. If I didn't have a testimony of my religion, I wouldn't believe it for a second. But I don't think it's some egotistical thing, the way people are making it sound. At least, that's not what it is for me, I can't speak for anyone else. I see it kind of like being a parent - you have wonderful parents who generally teach you good things and love you and who you want to be like. You grow up, hopefully you learn the right things, you can decide to get married and have a family of your own. You do your best to teach your kids love and kindness and faith and work. The cycle continues. The only difference that I see is that my Heavenly Father is perfect, and I'm nowhere nearly close to that. But I'm trying to become a better person and with the help of Christ, I'm hopefully going down the road of being better. I generally don't like Bible bashing, not because I can't do it but because I don't like the feeling I get by trying to prove someone else's beliefs wrong. What does that get me? Pissed off. And, personally, I don't feel any closer to Christ when I'm pissed off, especially about the Bible. So I will just say this: I have studied the Bible, both the Old and New Testament. I found it to be wonderful. I believe it to be true with all of my heart, as long as it's translated correctly (as with any book). There are times of seeming contradiction in the Bible, not because I'm Mormon and I want it that way, but because it's been translated so many times and written by many different people. Any Bible scholar who's done his research will tell you that it's widely believed that those who didn't follow Christ sought to destroy the Bible by taking things out and changing other things around. Do I know exactly? Nope, I wasn't there. It doesn't make the Bible itself any less divinely inspired, but the point remains that many people are confused by differing points of doctrine, that's why we have lots of different religions. Do I understand all of the Book of Mormon? Nope. I go cross-eyed when parts of Isaiah are quoted in it. But it does help me clarify some questions, and I feel peace when I read it and pray. Regardless of whether or not you believe in the truthfulness of the book, would a book that is so evil make me want to follow Christ, to be a kinder and gentler person, and help me be at peace in a world that certainly is not? That's what I feel when I read it to understand. Anyway, there's my two cents. If I haven't answered a question, it's not an intentional skirting the issue, it's simply because I either haven't seen it or feel like I've rambled long enough. God bless you (at least, all of you that want to be blessed *smile*) and I look forward to the excitement my post may create! *laugh* | ||
| giacomo (138.88.106.123) |
Mormonism is a destructive cult that has gradually moved to the mainstream. If you examine the signs of a destructive cult on this website (posted below), you will see that the Mormon church under Joseph Smith and Brigham Young fits every one of those signs. Over time, many of the worst abuses have faded away. Some of these characteristics still apply: focus on recruitment, authoritarian power structure (prophet), innovative and exclusive (the TRUE church). In all fairness, many mainstream religious traditions appear to be destructive cults at their inception and gradually become more mainstream. Of course, if Mormonism is the TRUE church, its roots as a seeming destructive cult won't matter to the believers. I guess that's the rub when dealing with cults. Members within the cult don't think they're in a cult. They think that they are members of the one, true faith. In that regard the roots of Catholicism are as cultish as Mormonism. But Catholicism has adapted over time. (Believe me, I'm not bashing Catholicism--or Mormonism, really; I'm saying look at the history). However, Mormonism is still relatively young, and the claims made by Joseph Smith (American Indians descending from Jews, etc., are easily disproven), so it's hard to see Mormonism truly becoming mainstream without ridding itself of its doctrines of modern prophets, etc. At which point it would lose its distinction for being a church of "peculiar people." A paradox for modern Mormons, who are generally nice, charitable people. For more on Momonism from the perspective of former Mormons who have left, many of whom see Mormonism as a cult: http://www.exmormon.org Signs of potential dangerous cult: 1. The cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. Joseph Smith: prophet, seer, revelator. "Spoke for god" in every possible type of transaction: theological, historical, commerical, sexual.... Also ran for President. was general of a militia, ran false banks, you name it, he was running it. 2. The cult's leaders tend to be charismatic, determined, and domineering. That's Joseph Smith. Brigham Young we less cahrasmatic, but extremely determined, domineering. Joseph Smith talked approximately 40 women to be his "spiritual wives" (which included carnal knowlege). Was charasmatic enough to talk several men into giving their wives and teenage daughters to him in marriage. 3. The cult's leaders are self-appointed, messianic persons who claim to have a special mission in life. Joe Smith: vision from God and Jesus, frequently visited by angels. He proclaimed himself (in voice of God) as second most important person after Jesus for his role in "restoring" the gospel. 4. The cult's leaders center the veneration of members upon themselves. Again, while he founded the Church of Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith was the center of his church, pushing his unbridled charisma into every facet of the commuity that he founded. It's summed up in the Mormon hymn, Praise to the Man: Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again. 5. The cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of the behavior of its members. Early Mormon church dictated everything to its members. 6. The cult tends to have a double set of ethics. Members are urged to be open and honest within the group, and confess all to the leaders. On the other hand, they are encouraged to deceive and manipulate outsiders or nonmembers. (Brigham Young called it "lying for the Lord.") 7. The cult has basically only two purposes, recruiting new members and fund-raising. 8. The cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the only viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. While claiming this, the cult then surreptitiously uses systems of psychological coercion on its members to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult. | ||
| Anonymous (172.170.121.142) |
Everything I've read on this site by mormons and non mormons is enough to make me stay far away from this satanic cult! | ||
| Anonymous (24.20.40.132) |
Satan's very first LIE ...... While tempting Eve to rebel against God, Satan said to her, "You will be like God ....." Isn't that interesting that many cults believe this very lie? | ||
| Anonymous (172.202.212.100) |
Joeseph Smith was a prophet, dumb...dumb....dumb.....dumb.......dumb.......dumb! | ||
| Hans (64.12.116.66) |
There is too much hate in the world, why do we not just let everyone alone in what they seek? Does it matter what Church one goes to? Budha, Allah, Jehova, King, Christ, Lord, God, who cares what we call him? There is only one who is the creator. What is important, is that we know he is there, the name is not. God loves all his children, we need to learn and accept that we have to love each other, as God does, and not spread confusion and hate. "Anonymous" is not an option for me. God is real, Love is real, and I am real. | ||
| Anonymous (172.159.19.237) |
Problem is the mormons tell the world they are Christians. Christians do not believe that they can become gods. | ||
| blotter (65.100.219.5) |
Matthew Chapter 5 Verse 48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." | ||
| Anonymous (172.139.105.15) |
Nowhere did Christ say anyting about his followers becoming gods and creating their own worlds. Another example of taking scripture out of context. Be a Christian or be a mormon. You can't be both. Christ knows that man can not be perfect except through God's grace when asked for in Christ's name. Only perfect man that has ever lived or ever will be is Christ. | ||
| the Babbling Brooke (24.10.255.8) |
I started reading this thread, and found an oft repeated question concerning mormon males becoming gods... and questions and statements about the ONE TRUE CHURCH. The answers to those questions and statements lead to some interesting loopholes when accompanied by other pieces of mormon doctrine... Mormon doctrine states that in the "pre-existence" of this earth, there was a great war in the celestial kingdom (heaven). Jesus and Satan were the eldest sons of the "Heavenly Father" (Elohim) and had different idea's about the way things should work here. Satan's idea was that all of the spiritual children should come here, perform the required rituals of learning, then return enlightened to the presence of the Heavenly Father. Earth would be created much like a nursery, with no room for error. No danger to the children of Elohim. Jesus and Elohim disagreed, and furthered their idea that for true enlightenment, we should be able to learn from mistakes, there should be "free agency", with life including temptation and a margin for error. The "safety net" for Elohim's spiritual children would be provided by Jesus with the act of crucifixion. Jesus and Elohim were victorious, and Satan was cast out of the Celestial Kingdom to the "Outer Darkness", along with his followers, which consisted of one third of the host of heaven. So Earth was created. We all have read or heard about the life of Jesus, and the biblical history of man kind, followed by our own versions of modern (comparatively) history up until the development of the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". Apparently, after the life of Jesus, none of the twelve apostles had been ordained, and the true line of Jesus's "priesthood" was lost, until Jesus returned to the American continent and restored his priesthood with the "laying on of hands" to Joseph Smith in a secluded grove in up-state New York. There, Joseph was also guided to discover ancient text, cryptically written on golden plates, and he was given the "Urim and Thumin", or seeing stones, to decipher the text with the eyes of Elohim. Having translated the text, he discovered that if a "house of god" (temple) were built and sanctified by him (at the time, the only posessor of the Melchizedek Priesthood, until he personally ordained others) then temple ordinanaces could be performed, and the priesthood spread to others (only in the sanctified temple). Then the true Church of Jesus Christ could be restored. It ended up that all of the other religeons, being led by assumed authority, had resulted in all of the souls not completing the required tasks to return to the presence of Elohim in the Celestial Kingdom. These would be the great works of the mormon religeon. First, to spread the true priesthood around the world, and prepare for the second coming of christ. Second, To build geneological record, and perform the rituals on the dead's behalf that had not had the opportunity to do so when they lived, so that they could pass through the "veil" surrounding the celestial kingdom and return to the presence of Elohim. If a male soul held the Melchizedek Preisthood, completed the temple rituals (aka endowments) and was sealed to a woman in the temple, the male would be able to return to the celestial kingdom, and after drawing his wife through the "veil" (via a secret handshake that was created during their marriage in the temple, she can't get into the celestial kingdom without him) they would merge and create spirit children of their own, hence assuming the role of god. Here come the contradictions and paradoxes. 1. The Bible describes the Garden of Eden on Earth as a time of existance when there was no evil, no temptation. According to the Mormon Doctrine concerning the war in the Celestial Kingdom, Eden was exactly what Satan wanted to have happen, and the idea of Eden is what Elohim and Jesus cast away during the pre-existence. According to the Bible, God created Earth and Eden, and temptation was introduced into Eden by Satan. Someone has got something backwards... 2. Correct me if I am wrong. A God is an omnipotent being. That is Perfect. All powerful. No boundries. Hate to break it to ya, but time is a boundry imposed apon our sense of existance. So to a god, time is an irrelevent, if not non-existant thing. With that thought in mind, there cannot be a first and/or a last. Those are terms created from within the boundries of time and space. From within the boundries of time, we can state that there always has been a god. Remember that infinity goes in both directions. If man has the ability to become a god, and there is only one true church, it must be that the souls arriving on planets that we assume the role of god for will be given the same requirements, with the same benefits, and they can become gods as well. The cycle goes on and on, and with that acknowledged, it must be that in the spiritual realm there is an infinite number of souls. So remember the Doctrine about Satan being cast out, taking with him one third of the host of heaven? Explain to me this... How do you split infinity into thirds? The point is simply this. You cannot place your faith on a mortal man's interpretation of the mind and will of God. There is no single, true religeon. We can each strive for a loving, nurturing relationship with our fellow man, and the rest of the world around us, but I believe that to impose personal interpretation on others is wrong. I live in Salt Lake City Utah. Here, the Mormons impose their beliefs (via a predominantly Mormon governing body) on everyone that lives here, whether they share the same religeous beliefs or not. That has resulted in my choice to stay and do what I can do to wake them up, take their blinders off, if you will. It sure is frustrating living in a city of inbred, brainwashed, ignorant (or "ignert" as they put it), self righteous fools. Does that answer your questions? | ||
| Anonymous (172.155.162.216) |
To do as you say is to refuse to obey Christ's command to spread the gospel.....the great commission. By writing what you just did, you are imposing your personal non-beliefs on the rest of us on this site. Look in a mirror. Aren't you imposing your beliefs on us? Just share your beliefs. Don't point fingers. | ||
| Kendra (66.13.78.70) |
You have it all wrong! Honestly! As I was reading these posts, I just wanted you to see the truth, for what it really is. The LDS church does believe that it is the true church, but that doesn't mean that they believe that the other churches are entirely wrong. We believe that there are churches out there that are right, but only to a certain extent. We believe the the LDS church has the full truth and gospel, and that other churches have truths, but broken parts of it. Does that make sense? It's like a child's game: the LDS church has all of the game pieces, board, and rules in order for the the game to be played; while the other churches only have parts: either just the rules, or just the game pieces, or just the board; nevertheless, the other churches may have more than one of them, the board and rules, but lacks the pieces. See what I mean? The LDS church believes that it has ALL of the truths and gospels. As for the whole "We can be like God" stuff- LDS members do believe that it's true- you CAN become LIKE God, and as someone said before, in Matthew 5:48 God says he wants us to be perfect like himself. And there is no way on this earth that any man, other than Jesus Christ, can be perfect like God in this lifetime. It is going to be only in the eternal life and eternal perspective that we can become perfect and spotless. To be a christian is to believe in Jesus the Christ and his atonement: LDS members believe in Christ and what he did for us, therefore, making us Christians. And if you say that because we say we can be Gods doesn't make us Christian, you are not entirely truthed. You may say that we are not Christians because the "average Christian" doesn't believe that they can become Gods, but then again, that doesn't determine who is Christian and who isn't. Those who believe in Jesus the Christ are Christians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes in Jesus Christ. Just look at the name! the church OF Jesus Christ... Therefore, the LDS church is Christian. Many people have many different misconceptions of the LDS church. The only way to get true doctrines and truths about this religion is to go to someone who believes in the church and won't misconstrue the beliefs. Asking someone who claims to be educated of the church, yet doesn't live or believe the beliefs is a hypocrite and truly uneducated regarding the church. To have faith is to know, but if you don't have faith in the church then you don't know about the church. And if you really desire to know of the truth, then ask of God, with a humble and contrite spirit and it shall be known unto you. That is the only true, uncorrupt way to know of the truths. But if you don't want to go that far, then ask your local LDS missionaries, they will be more that happy to answer any questions you have concerning the LDS church. LDS Missionaries, strong members, and God. May God enlighten you with the truth. | ||
| Anonymous (172.174.174.126) |
Christ said "In my Father's house there are many mansions. I go to prepare a place for you". He doesn't say anymore. That is all we need to know. He didn't say we will become Gods. Anything else is speculation. The lds preys on the nemrod complex in man, man's desire to become like God. Just because they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ doesn't make them a Christian Church. They are more like buddhists who believe through spiritual progression they will become one with God. Mormons are guilty of adding to the gospel of Jesus Christ and therefore are out of balance. Only when a Christian dies does he learn what God's plan is for him. Satan's scheme has always been to tempt man with the impossibilty of becoming God-like. He did it with Adam and Eve. And he is doing it to you. Reject satan. He's a liar! | ||
| Anonymous (65.31.153.32) |
You've got this Mormon Dress Code thing all wrong. It all revolves around peanut butter and vinegar. You see, one or the other is always "Satan" and the other lets souls free in heaven. You just have to smear the peanut butter in your Mormon Underwear and then douse your head with a little vinegar to cover up the smell. I'm a good Mormon I know these things. We have this special bible we cooked up, er...found...and lots of these secret keys to get into heaven are in there. Its true. Lots of Mormons have the wrong stuff smeared in their Mormon Underwear...that's where they went wrong. I've smelled them. | ||
| Anonymous (63.230.18.103) |
Im mormon and trust me im as normal and dress just like everyone else ...maybe even better! it seems very crazy that something this silly would even matter "what mormons wear" now if your talking about quakers now you have something to wonder about ! come on people stop being ignornant !! | ||
| Anonymous (68.42.136.74) |
To Anonymous about Ron Keaton: You have silenced the Satan worshiping Mormon Believer. Kudos to you my brother. | ||
| Anonymous (67.42.123.208) |
this is for anonymous 68.42.132.74 i was wondering , do you know Ron Keaton? Amd if you do how do you know hes a worshiping mormon believer? Just curious! | ||
| Paul (216.127.194.195) |
If you are really interested in finding out what the main problems with mormon teachings are, visit: http://www.frontiernet.net/~bcmmin/index.shtml This site has it all. Simple to compare and helps explain how to minister to them. Do a simple google search "christian teachings about mormons" and it is the first hit you'll see. Side note: There seems to be a lot of "milk" being handed out here by our mormon friends. If they were to share the "meat" of their teachings openly, then we would be getting somewhere. Hiding behind the "milk" is plain and simple, lying! Gal 1:6-9, 2Cor 11:3-4, Eph 2:8-9 | ||
| Anonymous (66.56.149.187) |
sucking on a penny will help someone who has been drinking COKE to defeat a MORMON!!! | ||
| arron (arron) New member Username: arron Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.41.89 |
the mornon church is cultic, ocultic and a lying org. no one can become GOD we who are CHRISTIANS are not going to be angels either we will be SAINTS and occupie a special place in GODS HEART. stay away from the mormon church heresey | ||
| natalie (natalie) New member Username: natalie Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.0.134.211 |
Please bear with me as I’m jabbering. The book written “Everything you need to know you learn in kindergarten” this is so true. So many basics and staples we all live by, or should I say I hope we all live by. I fell into this site on accident and have read though all of it. All I can think about is what do I want to be when I grow up. I want to be like my husband when I grow up. He’s humble and good, always there for others, would give the shirt of his own back to help a friend stay warm. How true it is that us girls often marry men like our fathers as my husband is so like my father. I was raised by good honest people with strong moral fiber, ethics and standards that rarely faltered. I remember coming home one day crying because someone in school had treated me horribly. My father said “sweetheart there are 4 different kinds of people in the world, those that like you for the right reasons, those that like you for the wrong reasons, those that hate you for the wrong reasons and those that hate you for the right reasons. It seems to me you only need to worry about those that hate you for the right reasons, reflect and try and be the best you can be”. My dad what a wonderful man. I went on with my life believing in these few things and the basics that you learn as a child about loving they neighbor and so on. My husband and I consider ourselves to be intelligent, caring and loving people. Our friends often leaning on us for support and counsel as there lives are somewhat tumultuous and they’ve graced us with there friendship and feelings and we feel honored they entrust us with their deepest thoughts baring the soft side of there souls. I don’t think people give that carelessly. Now onto my spiritual upbringing. My grandmother was a missionary, not a Mormon missionary, a Christian missionary. She lived and taught Sunday school on an Indian reservation to the children there. My father had his fill of the church and missionary work and as I grew I went to church with my grandmother as he and my mother worshiped god from home. My grandmother went to a nursing home when I was 12 and unless it was a special event, going to church simply didn’t happen. My husband and I have never been much for going to church but have always had a strong relationship with God and never felt the need nor did we feel we were lacking spiritually. Now on to the good news. My husband and I were just recently baptized together in the Mormon faith. We didn’t take this plunge lightly, we studied for 6 months. I’ve had few Mormon friends in my past but those that weren’t would worn me “You know they’re wolves in sheep’s clothing”. Now how silly is that, wolves in sheep’s clothing. I’m a pretty good judge of character and I know my friends aren’t wolves in sheep’s clothing, that just makes me giggle to think someone would say that. I’ve never had so many people with open arms great me nor treat me with such love, caring and respect then the people at my ward. In the years I’ve been married, 16 now, I’ve gone to church 6-10 times a year, never have I been treated as wonderfully as I have at my ward. For those who feel this is a cult so be it, we all have the right to our opinions. They say perception is reality and if your perception is that the Mormon faith is a bad thing, a wrong thing, a horrible thing then you certainly have that right to feel that way. I simply don’t understand why anyone would take the time and effort to continue in these debates, as I feel we all worship the same God, don’t we. I believe the young man that’s 17 and has signed in as anonymous, as so many of you have, and has continued chatting on this site is intelligent and has the right to feel the way he wants, just as you all do. My only comment would be, there are better things to do with ones time then to argue faith, to argue ones view on God. That would be like trying to prove to someone I didn’t know that I love my husband, I don’t need to prove that to anyone. One individual, Chris Welton, made a very poignant statement “In the words of Ronald McDonald Get-along gang, "Can't we all just get along?"” You can move small rocks alone but we can move boulders when we unite, if only to agree to disagree. They say you should never discuss politics and religion, maybe they were right. Our friends, of all faiths, are happy for us. We’ve not changed we just want to be better people and continue striving to do just that. My husband said when we married “The water is cold and deep but we can hold hands through it”. I hope you all have a wonderful day. Natalie | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 127 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Natalie, It's all about the mormon belief system. They claim to be Christians. But their fundamental belief is that: God was once a man. Do YOU believe that? If you do, on what do you base your belief on? Man can become a god through spiritual progression. Do YOU believe that? If you do, on what do you base your belief on? Please answer. | ||
| natalie (natalie) New member Username: natalie Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.249.24.4 |
Good Morning Franklin, As I mentioned in my last posting “My only comment would be, there are better things to do with ones time then to argue faith, to argue ones view on God. That would be like trying to prove to someone I didn’t know that I love my husband, I don’t need to prove that to anyone.” I do see you’ve been rather active from time of registration, it’s wonderful to have a curious mind, I simply don’t feel the need to debate or prove my thoughts or feelings to anyone. My posting was more of a note that we all have the right to our feelings, they’re not wrong or right, they’re simply feelings. They say if you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything, I do stand for what I believe in but that’s between me and Heavenly Father. My answer to you is not truly an answer. Yes I believe in God, when I think of him and my faith I find a warm fuzzy feeling come over me, that should be adequate. I have no questions for you or anyone on this site, simply that it would be boring if we were all the same now wouldn’t it. I’m not here to debate simply observing and as I mentioned in my last posting I fell into this site by accident and it seemed prudent at the time to share a positive, non-destructive, non-judgmental caring thought or two. Seeing the level of postings you’ve had from time of registration I’m sure my answer won’t be adequate for you but that’s the beauty of this, it’s adequate for me and really that’s all that matters. My intentions were to not visit this site again but I have to admit I was a bit curious wondering if anyone took anything heart warming out of what I said. I had hopes that there wouldn’t be a question such as yours because then I’m left with wondering what you did get out of what I wrote, certainly not what I had hoped for. Enjoy the day everyone, it’s sunny here and it’s time for me to sit outside and enjoy the day so I’m off. Natalie | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 137 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.163.134.18 |
Thank you for not answering my questions. Not! Any belief not worth explaining or discussing is not worth believing in. Other mormons have discussed this doctrine with me. Since you say you have just become a mormon, are you aware that this is mormon doctrine? You wrote a post promoting YOUR faith. Yet you think it wrong that anyone else should do the same as counterpoint? Anyway, when you become a god someday have mercy on us mere mortals. | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
People, calm down. It's really stupid to keep asking questions to us faithful LDS members just so you can tell us how wrong we are. It's nice how most of you can be mature about religion enough to research it but plu-lease just hear us out! I'm just a regular teenaged girl and I really don't like that my church WAS involved in polyigomy. I think it's discusting. BUT, I know that God had a real good reason that I just can't see yet. P.S. - we're not brainwashed freaks and our church is true. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
If your church is true then why does it preach a lie? God was not once a man. Man can not become a god! | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
hey, it's not a lie. Let me put it this way. Jesus is the son of God. God sent Jesus into the virgin mary's stomach so that Jesus could spread the word of god on earth. It was Jesus who was a man, not our heavenly father. But God has come down to earth like when he appeared to Joseph Smith. recap: not lies. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.148.54.249 |
No. Mormon doctrine is that Yahweh was once a man. And that any mormon can become a god. I thought it was the angel moroni who appeared to Joseph Smith. Are you sure you are a mormon? | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
I know what I'm talking about, God and Jesus first appeared to JS in the forest. then many years later the angel moroni appeared to him to tell him when to go and where to dig for the plates. Both appeared to him. And what's so wrong with us believing that we can one day become gods? Why does that bother you? Hindus believe they can be reincarnated. Do you think that's a joke too? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
How do you know that they did? Were you there? How about those plates. Where are they now? How come no one else has seen them? "And what's so wrong with us believing that we can one day become gods? Why does that bother you?" What is wrong is that is not Christian doctrine. What is wrong is that mormons deceive people into thinking they are Christian too! Mormons bring discredit to Christianity with their Asian beliefs and polygamist heritage. I do not believe in reincarnation. Do you? | ||
| susanna_krizo (susanna_krizo) New member Username: susanna_krizo Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
About celestial polygamy: Mark 12:18-26 Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man's brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife." 24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Explains itself doesn't it? Susanna | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) New member Username: solopilot Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: Perhaps the plates are in the same place that the original manuscripts of the New Testament books are being kept. After all, you haven't seen THEM either, have you? Yet you claim that you know everything that is and is not "Christian doctrine" based on your interpretation of what little scripture you believe in. . . .which, BTW, doesn't say ANYWHERE that you are right and we are wrong . . .so you are inserting the doctrines of men and your own prejudices into your definition of Christianity. You worship your own way. I'll worship HIS way. | ||
| srparedon (srparedon) New member Username: srparedon Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.218.81.11 |
can anyone tell me more about the special mormon underwear? i keep asking the adorable missionary boys knocking on my door, but they seem so shy... they all swear they've NEVER masturbated, and clam up about the underwear as tho it were top secret-- so what gives? what's special about mormon undies? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Another Protestant heard from . . . | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Brooke: Close, but no kewpie. 1) Temptation was introduced into Eden by Lucifer. This is what has always been taught by LDS doctrine. 2) Until you can tell us where God came from, you can't tell us all about God's nature. Some things we are not able to understand in this life. That doesn't mean that the limits of this life will be on us forever. Why do you have to lie about Salt Lake City, which has a non-Mormon Mayor (some would say that he's moderately anti-Mormon) and a predominantly non-Mormon population? The only "imposition" by Mormons is that we're here. Go two blocks from Temple Square and you will find the same bars, nightclubs and so on that you will find in any other city of the same size. Since we were here first, perhaps you should consider going somewhere non-Mormon, if it bothers you so much to see our chapels everywhere you look. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 81 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: If you're still around, before you "prove" the Book of Mormon false because we don't show you the plates, would you mind proving the New Testament true by showing us the original manuscripts? BTW, have you enjoyed your Christmas celebration? Can you provide any evidence that Christ was born in wintertime, on a pagan holiday? | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Ya, ya... except christians claim a reasonable theory that the sayings and teachings of Jesus were transferred by apostles to the next generations until and put in writing at some moment in time. And christians claim the copies we hold today are much the same with the initial manuscripts and copies show the original language of the initials. Mormons cannot provide copies of the so called 'reformed Egyptian' golden plates to let us delight with that alleged ancient language.... Solo, you don't play by the rules of reasonableness and do not confront questions with answers, but you try to deceive people with contra-questions. For the future, probably I will only give links to sites discussing Mormonism from many sides. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 111 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
"Theory"? "Much the same"? Let's put this in perspective. The earliest known manuscript of anything in the New Testament dates back perhaps as far as AD 125. That's over four generations between the Crucifixion and that one early manuscript. The rest are closer to the end of the 4th century than to the Apostolic era, and over 1000 years before the KJV arrived. There are even several different versions of those early manuscripts! Yet you place all of your faith in the KJV as being complete and inerrant (without saying which of the half-dozen versions of the KJV is the complete and inerrant one), and believe that the version of each book selected by the editors was the true and accurate version (thus all of the others were spurious). Then you rely on your own particular interpretation of that "complete and inerrant" version of the Bible -- the same Bible that over 1000 other seperate Christian faiths (my own included) say prove that THEY are more right than whichever of them you belong to. Where is the deception? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.224 |
So God, who has infinite wisdom; enough to create the heavens and the earth, to create all the mountains, the water, the animals, the plants, the sun, the moon, and man from dirt, to take a rib from that man to make woman, this perfect God tells his chosen people to write what he tells them, which they do. Then this wonderfully intelligent God decides once the book is finished, let's muddle it all up, confuse everyone, make no way anyone to be sure that what he says is true. So he sends this punk kid (I say punk because he committed minor crimes (jail records intact), has a dream, sees an angel and goes to this stand of trees and starts digging. Aha, plates made of precious metal. Undecipherable plates. A new bible. Yup, that's what God wanted to do. It all makes sense, doesn't it. Let's all run right down to Salt Lake, zip through the temple, get some underwear, promise to slit our throats and disembowel ourselves, get a new name, a really neat secret one, goody, goody. Now we just wait for the first flight to never-never land. Oh, aren't we happy with our God. Mormonism is soooo wonderful. MMmmm!!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.224 |
So God, who has infinite wisdom; enough to create the heavens and the earth, to create all the mountains, the water, the animals, the plants, the sun, the moon, and man from dirt, to take a rib from that man to make woman, this perfect God tells his chosen people to write what he tells them, which they do. Then this wonderfully intelligent God decides once the book is finished, let's muddle it all up, confuse everyone, make no way anyone to be sure that what he says is true. So he sends this punk kid (I say punk because he committed minor crimes (jail records intact), has a dream, sees an angel and goes to this stand of trees and starts digging. Aha, plates made of precious metal. Undecipherable plates. A new bible. Yup, that's what God wanted to do. It all makes sense, doesn't it. Let's all run right down to Salt Lake, zip through the temple, get some underwear, promise to slit our throats and disembowel ourselves, get a new name, a really neat secret one, goody, goody. Now we just wait for the first flight to never-never land. Oh, aren't we happy with our God. Mormonism is soooo wonderful. MMmmm!!! | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 273 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
GC: If God wants us to have pure knowledge, why would he bother with LETTERS, when he could simply just APPEAR now and then to prove it, like he did to Adam and Eve? No, GC, the "punk kid" didn't commit crimes, he was only accused of them. Anyone can be accused of anything. Anyone can go to jail on accusation, then be released on acquittal (or never prosecuted at all), and have "jail records" for people like you to crow over. If you want jail records, let me remind you that the Savior himself was imprisoned, convicted BY HIS OWN MOUTH and then executed. The same for several of the apostles whom you think were the only ones worthy of writing scriptures. Another lied when accused of being an accomplice. Even YOU have those records. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 133 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.141 |
Oh Sunbeam. You again miss my point. Jesus does not care about the outer appearance, but the inner. Man has made these so important, even so far as to consider them spiritual, as if wearing something, underwear or a cross on a chain, will protect you from satan. The Bible teaches to put on the "whole armor of God". I will even help you find it, (that is, if you believe the Bible); Samuel---Men in those days put on armor to protect them from their enemies. God gives believers HIS armor which is: faith, truth, hope, and the WORD. In reading the Holy Bible you will begin to see this, if you ask the God Of The Bible to open your eyes to truth. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 390 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
I guess GC attends one of those nudist churches. ;) | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 140 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.63 |
Yes, I have several quite beautiful crosses but they are reminders to me. I do not idolize them or feel any protection from them. As for a fish in my car, ? I was speaking of spiritual things, but I don't expect you to understand that. sp gives just the response I would expect. Why is it that when someone is guided to the Holy Bible, they refuse to do so, even though they consider parts of it scripture? If they do, their comments are never about what they have read there. If you take what I said to mean, I am a nudist, that is ludicrous. I would wear clothes even if I weren't Christian. But, as a christian, Genesis describes how Adam and Eve made clothes for themselves because they had knowledge they didn't before. I forgot, this is a humor trail, isn't it? So much for mormon humor. Quite awhile back, I mentioned that you will not see a cross in or on a mormon church, but you will see a statue of Moroni. Why don't one of you enlighten us to why that is. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 393 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
GC: Uh . . .no, this is the thread on dress code. You wrote: "Jesus does not care about the outer appearance, but the inner. Man has made these so important, even so far as to consider them spiritual, as if wearing something, underwear or a cross on a chain, will protect you from satan." If you don't think that wearing underwear is a protection from Satan, then perhaps you should think again. BTW, there is a nudist colony near my home on Oahu. Nice people (they wear clothes outside of their community), many if not most are Christians, and they even have a couple of nudist preachers who conduct services (one told me that ". . .being a Man of the Cloth is in your heart, not on your chest!"). Nope, you're wrong again. You only see that statue of Moroni on temples, and not even all of them (the Hawaii Laie Temple doesn't have one, for instance). The only one I've ever seen on display inside a building is the one in the Church Museum of Art and History in SLC. We don't worship Moroni any more than most Protestant cults worship the cross. We don't use the cross because it is a symbol of Christ's death, and Christ isn't dead! Moroni is on the temple, with his trumpet, calling our attention to that glorious fact. "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Revelation 14:6-7 | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 144 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.220 |
"And then if any man shall say to you Lo, here is Christ; or Lo, he is there, believe him not: for false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 403 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: Yes, that scripture is directly in relation to the expected speedy return of Christ, the claims by some that he had been seen, and the doctrines of men which had already begun to creep into Christianity even during the Apostolic era. "By their fruits, ye shall know them." The fruits of "mainstream" Christianity have been many different Bibles, each of which is different from all others, yet whose adherents generally claim to be 100% complete, accurate and inerrant. What does this have to do with clothing? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 150 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.150 |
What does mormonism have to do with christianity? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 410 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: Significantly more than Protestantism does. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 331 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.154.237.39 |
God was not once a man. Man can not become a God. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 413 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: Please don't ever change. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
godchild What does mormonism have to do with christianity? They both believe that jesus is a god. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 162 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.210 |
Christians believe in one God. Mormons believe every male member of their organization can become a God. In other words, Jesus to Mormons is only one God of many. They believe that God came down and had literal intercourse with Mary to impregnate her with Jesus. They believe Satan is the fallen brother of Jesus. I don't think I need say more. You can read the other posts on Mormonism and choose for yourself. SP considers himself to be the expert on Mormonism. I to him am just a liar. If I have said anything that you cannot find for yourself by going to all these websites on cults, (which christians believe Mormonism is), you can go to the library, you can go to different churches or you can call any LDS church and they would love to send two missionaries to speak with you. They were young men fresh out of highschool or until they could save the money to go on a mission. SP may say differently. I have said all along 'do not take my word. I am speaking from my own time as a mormon (13 to 38 years old) and from books I have searched through, and from other mormons I know (members of my family). Original Mormon documents are difficult for even members to see (but not all) and there is a lot of literature out there. You have the same freedom each of us have to decide what you want to believe. I think you have read much on my opinion about it. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Like I said Christianity and Judaism are monotheistic (one God, creator of all the universe). Mormons are polytheistic (many gods to worship, including themselves who are progressing towards godhood). How anyone, knowing mormon beliefs, could confuse mormons with Christians is beyond me. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 163 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.88 |
Sol: get in touch. Sooner better. Old man not happy."Timewasted'. will try Sun. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 423 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: No, I'm not "the" expert on Mormonism. That doesn't change the fact that I think you are lying about having been a Mormon for 26 years (first claim) or 25 years (current claim) or even one year. You have just said so many things which don't add up that it's impossible to believe you. Franklin wrote: "Mormons are polytheistic (many gods to worship, including themselves who are progressing towards godhood)." We worship one God, and his Son, Jesus Christ. I don't know any Mormons who worship themselves. Please provide names. Many truths seem to be beyond you. GC: "Old man"? Gee, how reverent. Sic'em, Franklin! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 164 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.141 |
Sol. Lighten up. Mission accomplished. Bro. Anderson said temple recommends confirmed. You won the bet man. I'm outa here. ch | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Both Mormonism and Christianity believe that jesus is a god. Although they believe that people may improve themselves to become gods, they still just believe there is only one jesus. I confuse Christianity with Mormonism because I think they are both polytheistic. They both believe in at least 3 gods. The 3 are not 1 since the 3 have different attributes. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 343 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
When man believes he can become as perfect as God, that is self love, that is narcissism. That is self-worship. That is blasphemy and heresy to God. Yaakov: Do Jews believe that that they can become gods? Neither do Christians. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 427 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Of course, anyone who had ever been a Mormon would know that a temple recommend is given after two interviews, at which first the bishop (or branch president) asks you a number of questions about moral conduct, then a higher authority in the Church asks a series of questions about moral conduct. The questions include such things as "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?" and "Is there anything in your moral conduct which hasn't been confessed, and which would make you unworthy of entering the Temple?" I can't remember a question that went anything like "how well have you done arguing with people who spread lies and distortions about the Restored Gospel?" Yaakov: No, many mainstream Christians believe that God is one being (from the Catholic Nicene Creed of the 4th century) with three personalities. True Christians recognize that the Godhead is three beings who are one in purpose, as Jesus preached. Franklin: If it's heresy, then why would Jesus refer to this Old Testament belief as a defense when the Jews were going to stone him? Do you REALLY believe that Jesus would use a jingle-jangle with false doctrine to show that he really was the son of God? "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. " John 10:31 - 38 | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 175 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Solopilot The trinity is three separate, identifiable beings. I was merely relating my beliefs about yalls religion. And why I believe that Mormonism is similar (though not identical) to Christianity. | ||
| egk (egk) Member Username: egk Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.23.215.143 |
Yaakov, In the Biblical (NT) and Philosophical understanding of the Trinity, all 3 persons of the Trinity share the all the same attributes. I have neither the time or the learning to explain it. I've been told that there are Jewish scholars who acknowledge that Historical Christianity is a monotheistic faith, albeit it a "strange" monotheism. EGK | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) New member Username: joesdad Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Franklin:Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:47-49 KJV obviously condoning and encouraging narcissism Come on, having read through most of your postings you obviously have at least a rudementary understanding and knowledge of the contents of the Bible, and therefore must now that often you say things without thinking about it (or purposely overlook that which contradicts your assertions) The Bible is full of passages commanding that we attain attributes that we recognise our Heavenly Father as having, why do you choose to ignore these in favour of a very blinkered and selective misrepresentation of the Lords will for us? Surely encouraging people to do less than the Lord requires of them by recommending they do as little as possible (thats how I read what you say) can be of no benefit, unless your intention is to confuse and mislead. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 433 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
egk wrote: "In the Biblical (NT) and Philosophical understanding of the Trinity, all 3 persons of the Trinity share the all the same attributes." God has a body (see Genesis), Jesus has a body (see Matthew), the Holy Ghost does not. That's a pretty serious "attribute" difference. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 352 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
If I wrote that God was once a man and that man can become a god, then I would be misleading people. The apostles who were anointed by Christ would be the first to admit they weren't perfect. And yet they knew Christ in the flesh and were trusted and anointed by Him. Yet they fell short of the glory of God. So how do you think you can become perfect? Are you greater than the apostles? Maybe you're just not thinking things through. You hear man say this or that but are you checking what you are hearing with the Holy Spirit? Being perfect is our goal. Attainable? No. We all fall short of the glory of God. But it is a good goal and Christ is our role model. I encourage people to do more, not less. But do it for God to see. Not for man. But whatever we do, it will not be good enough. It is written. That is why we are saved by faith alone. Not by works. Works are never good enough. If you don't agree, then I ask you this. Are you perfect? If not, why not? Christ commanded you to be. Why do you not obey Him? God knew from the beginning that man would never be able to be perfect. That is why He sent His Son. To sacrifice His life for our sins. The price has been paid. We can have eternal life just by our faith in Him. Not by our deeds which will never equal more than just dirty rags. Now go spread the good news. Jesus died for us! He is risen! | ||
| egk (egk) Member Username: egk Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.23.216.12 |
SoloPilot, I believe Historic Christianity and Yaakov will agree on this point. The references to God's body in the Hebrew Scriptures were either figures of speak, angels representing God, or symbolic visions given to man to help him understand the infinite and unchangeable God. (Yaakov, please confirm this or correct me as to the Jewish understanding.) As for Jesus, the Historical church would say that since he was God incarnate, his body was human, even though he was a divine person. EGK | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 441 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin wrote: "Are you perfect? If not, why not? Christ commanded you to be. Why do you not obey Him?" Time's not up, I'm still working on it. ;) EGK: Those are your interpretations. But if the Bible is figures of speech in some verses or symbolic visions in other verses, how can you hinge whole doctrines on the exactitude of any verse? As far as angels representing God, I can't imagine them representing themselves AS God, or a real prophet being told something which wasn't true! | ||
| egk (egk) Member Username: egk Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.23.212.30 |
SoloPilot, How do you UNDERSTAND English then? Approximately half of our lexical terms are idioms, i.e. figures of speech. (For example "figure of speech") In Ancient cultures, emassaries often represented the higher power they were sent from. Taking your logic further, how can there be marriage in heaven if we are all "sons of God?" EGK | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 166 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.6 |
When Christ appeared to the diciples AFTER the crucifiction, they did not know him. He appeared in a glorious body, one that you could touch, but spirit. It is not necessary for us to understand, but to have faith through God's grace. We keep the faith and all things are added as we do God's works, not ours, through his spirit in us. If we have difficulties understanding, imagine how impossible it is for nonbelievers. Man wants truth in a test tube. Followers of Christ have faith, like a child, who doesn't care How it works, just that it DOES. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 171 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.109 |
The Holy Bible teaches that Christ's Church is his bride, and he will come again to claim her. Mormons believe they will become God, so they can claim whatever women they want, as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and their other early leaders practiced. They retracted plural marriage at a time when they were catching hell for it, but have not retracted their belief in it. They teach it is an eternal commandment, from some God or another; perhaps they could tell you which one. (I wonder what will happen when all these Gods start wars over who will get what woman. Maybe they will all share them.) | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 172 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.109 |
For clarification: When the Holy Bible speaks of Gods, (plural) it is speaking of what men like mormons want to believe, not what is. God will not stop them from believing whatever they want, until he (and only he) is ready. That is a testament to his love for us. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
egk The references to God's body in the Hebrew Scriptures were either figures of speech (sic), angels representing God, or symbolic visions given to man to help him understand the infinite and unchangeable God. (Yaakov, please confirm this or correct me as to the Jewish understanding.) God is Infinite and thus is not limited to a finite body. To place God into a finite body, is to diminish God. However, it is us that sometimes has trouble comprehending the infinite God. So, we might refer to God lifting us up as “God’s Hands” or God watching out for us, we might call “God’s eyes”. None of these accurately describe God, but are only meant to enable us to comprehend Him. For the record, I am finding these Mormon threads to be incredibly amusing and educational. The exact same arguments that are used against Judaism are completely reversed when arguing against Mormons. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.115 |
Does not the Old Testament teach about the Messiah (the savior) would come? I haven't been reading the posts about judaism because that is not my usual area of interest. Am I wrong to believe Jews are the chosen people and Gentiles are able to receive salvation by adoption. What do Jews believe will happen to Gentiles when this world ends? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 443 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
EGK: Yes, I can agree that angels would say that they had been sent by God, the same way that Jesus said the same thing. I don't believe that an angel would MISrepresent, saying that he WAS God. Gee, are you saying that the Bible isn't word-for-word correct . . ? ;) GC: The Bible implies that Jesus was physically ugly. When he returned, his body was perfected, so he wouldn't look the same. Yet Mary knew his voice. You wrote: "Mormons believe they will become God, so they can claim whatever women they want, as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and their other early leaders practiced." The only problem with this statement is that it is a lie from beginning to end. You wrote: "When the Holy Bible speaks of Gods, (plural) it is speaking of what men like mormons want to believe, not what is." So, you're saying that since the Bible doesn't say what you want it to say, it's lying? Maybe you should have stayed with UFOs, GC. Yaakov: You have to understand that whatever a Protestant says MUST be true, because they say so! | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Godchild We already discussed these questions last year. Besides, this is a Mormon thread. Please explain why you are against a Mormon saying this "Mormons believe they will become God", but have no problem with saying that you worship a man that became a god? | ||
| egk (egk) Member Username: egk Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.23.212.30 |
SoloPilot, The word of God needs to be interpreted in terms of the language, expressions and culture of the time it was written. Again I ask you, how can you have marriage if we are sons of God? I would appreciate your answering this question. I need to stop posting because of my time commitments to work and family. If you were to recommend a book on Mormonism, what would you recommend? Yaakov, If you were to recommend a book for Christians to understand Judaism, what would you recommend? EGK | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 447 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
EGK: We can have marriage because "Mankind" includes women. What aspect of Mormonism are you interested in? There are several books which give an overview of doctrine and history, and others which go into more depth. There are also books such as "Mormon Doctrine" which are encyclopedic in nature. If only one book, for in-depth understanding, I would probably go with "Articles of Faith" by James E. Talmage. Originally published over 100 years ago, it covers the doctrines of the Church by following the letter "The Articles of Faith" written by Joseph Smith, Jr, to a newspaper editor who asked what Mormons believe. Remember, though, that it uses 19th century terminology and grammar, and doesn't cover doctrines revealed or emphasised later. Perhaps more valuable, and immediately accessible, is www.lds.org -- you can find info on our beliefs and practices there. For some in-depth, recent information, go to www.farmsresearch.org or www.fairlds.org. FARMS is a "think tank," with information on everything from archaeology to zoology, while FAIR is more involved with Mormon apologetics and answers to critics of the Church. The FAIR website has a couple of interesting sections, showing photos of protestors at Church events, and briefly discussing the claims made on their signs. Hope this info helps. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 448 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Oops, sorry, that's www.farmsresearch.com | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.60.250 |
Joseph Smith married another man's wife. That is a part of history, no matter how often mormons call it a lie. He was an adulterer, he made her an adulterer, which he said he was commanded by God to do. Poor Joseph. He didn't know what to do. Whether to follow man or God. So he followed Man, Man's laws. | ||
| egk (egk) Member Username: egk Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 147.72.101.2 |
SoloPilot: I'm interested in a general history that would also give a doctrinal overview. I heard that Mormon America by Ostling is generally good. As for marriage, the term in discussion was "Sons of God." How can we have marriage in heaven if those there are sons of God? EGK | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 451 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
EGK: I don't know Ostling's book. I can only make suggestions from materials that I am familiar with, which is what I've done. If we are to take the phrase "Sons of God" as all-inclusive, then you must either believe that only males will go to heaven, or that women who die are made into males. Neither of these makes sense. "Sons of God" may have originally been "Sons and daughters of God" or merely "Children of God," but the same way that "mankind" means men and women, "Sons of God" can be seen as including daughters as well, ha? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 178 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.141 |
sp You never answered the question; were you rebaptized when you joined the mormon church? You were also right about the translation of the KJV. I'm checking it out. What I am finding makes it even more clear that organized religion is not what God wants for me. You can see one example in my response to Joesdad today. In the Greek, Deisidaimon: a two part word-deise=dread and daimon=demon. To be religious is to dread demons. Sorry, I don't dread demons. And I am free to know God. Free! Not bound by mans rules, regulations, and requirements. Church buildings keep members so busy trying to impress God, they don't have the time or energy to know what God has already done through Christ. Been there, done that. It was a drag and sooo empty. I'd rather spend my time reading God's word or discussing it with a friend or neighbor (with no strings, binding). | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 454 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: I must have missed the question. Yes, I was baptised when I became a Mormon. I don't consider it to be "rebaptised" because in my Protestant baptism there was no authority in the first place. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 184 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.221 |
sp One more question. Isn't that what you thought when you were baptized into the protestant church? I'll leave it to a Mormon to explain what baptism means to them. I think you will call me a liar if I do. Can't have that now, can we  | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 187 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
EGK Yaakov, If you were to recommend a book for Christians to understand Judaism, what would you recommend? I honestly didn’t know. The books that I read are for knowledgeable Jews. However, since I personally know several Christians that have converted to Judaism, I asked them for some books of this nature. The overwhelming response from my friends, were books written by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan. I haven’t read any of his books, but here is his website if you are interested. Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan Book Series | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 278 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.14 |
When Jesus was asked, "where do you get your authority", he answered, "you answer my question first, and if you can answer it correctly, I will answer yours". For a church who says it's members should follow the 'Word of Wisdom', I think a quote from it's second socalled prophet, Brigham Young advised men not to work so hard that they had to get half drunk in order to keep it up. For a church that is claims it has not made changes since it's inception, why was 'another refomation in order' (In 1865)? In April 1838, at Far West, Presidents (Apostles) Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer were excommunicated for refusing to hand everything they owned to the 'church'. Apostle Orson Hyde: I discovered that some of the Eastern Papers (newspapers) represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on marriage, at our last conference, theat Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee; that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he beget children. Journal of Discourses Volumn 2 Pg. 210 | ||
| srparedon (srparedon) New member Username: srparedon Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.91.233.37 |
so glad to find this cite; hope someone can help what's special about mormon underwear? why won't those handsome trenchcoated young men i always invite in tell me about their underwear? i've heard it's like a union suit; i've also heard mormons sew little icons on their nipples, appliques they remove before burning the udnerwear-- or maybe they toss the underwear and burn the little sew-ons... any help? sr paredon | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 934 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.124 |
type in lds temple endowments for all the info you want. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
srparedon good question.... I would like to know at what stage of the introduction phase is this subject made known to its potential members. This is another freedom of choice in being a Mormon that they keep telling us about. Can any ex Mormons enlighten us as to the requirements and regulations regarding the under garments. Can Mormons go swimming? Wear bikinis? Can limbless people enter the kingdom of heaven if they cannot show the secret sign or handshake? Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 935 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.108 |
I found this site earlier today. It tells everything about the temple ceremonies, the underwear, requirements, etc. www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml You will also see how much of it compares to freemasons | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 936 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.108 |
I've never mentioned this but when my late husband and I married in the church, not the temple, my stepfather was the Bishop of the ward. He married us. After our weekend honeymoon he came to our house to talk to us. He talked to us about what we should and should not do in the bedroom. My husband and I just kind of sat there, and I don't think either of us said a word the whole time. I mean, this guy had been a father to me since I was 14 years old. That was kind of hard to take. He was doing his duty as a good mormon leader, one of his obligations. Not as my Dad. If other mormons deny this, they are liars. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 937 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.108 |
Something else I forgot to mention. I said before on the thread (and was called a liar) that the head of the ward and his assistants (can't remember what they are called now), sit at the front of the chapel on a platform behind the pulpit. There are nice comfortable upholtered chairs up there. Their purpose is to watch the members who took sacrement. If they 'heard or felt' that the member wasn't worthy to take it, they would talk to them later about it. Many times I saw those men, including my stepdad sitting up there napping. I mention this because I found this again on one the the websites. I'll find it again if need be. Sundays at the mormon church are called 'sacrament meetings'. Every Sunday they take the sacrament. I talked to my stepdad about this once, because I told him though I didn't feel worthy, it would seem to me that would be the time to take it, (that I needed it). He agreed with me and said that is why he let me. I drank alcohol and smoked cigarettes as did all my sisters and brother. Oh, they also have fast and testimony I think once a month. That fast money added to the pot. Lots of money: Tithe Missionary fund Fast offering Building fund That's all I can remember right now. Mormons don't pass a basket but they have lots of little envelopes available. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
After our weekend honeymoon he came to our house to talk to us. He talked to us about what we should and should not do in the bedroom. My husband and I just kind of sat there, and I don't think either of us said a word the whole time. Godchild, what is so odd about this? Don't most religions have prescribed sexual behavior? Acts they promote and acts they discourage. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 941 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.58 |
I agree that most do. But they talk to them about the marriage BEFORE, not after; (and I don't think that should include how to perform sexually)so that if there are problems or differences they can be ironed out before the wedding. And There is nothing in the scriptures about a husband and wife's conduct in the privacy of their bedroom. As a man and woman become one, as long as they are in agreement, there are no 'rules and regulations'. The Bible speaks of whoremongers, adulterers, and perverse acts; men with men, men with animals, and men with women other than their wives. And the wife is to 'know no other man'. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Advanced Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 531 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.31 |
Nulla: Of course we go swimming. I'd look pretty stupid in a bikini, though, you mind if I stay with baggys? There won't be any limbless people in Heaven -- in the Resurrection, bodies will be made whole. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.118 |
Will you be forgiven if you are wearing your baggies and not your temple garments, and you, God forbid, should drown? What would happen if the sharks decided you would be a good lunch? Again, you can see what the church says about the above at www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml | ||
| alphaomega (alphaomega) Member Username: alphaomega Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 207.112.93.206 |
HOLY UNDERWEAR....?!?!?!? haaa haaaa haaaaaaaaa  | ||
| alphaomega (alphaomega) Member Username: alphaomega Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 207.112.93.206 |
many many years ago before I was converted to Christ and I was searching for truth, the mormon missionaries were trying to do a number on my brain. They had a date for me to be baptized and everything, but I never did sucomb to thier invitations... something smelled fishy about them to me, seemed like they were all "cookie cutter" religionists, manufactured.. scary the way the missionaries all dress the same like CIA agents, that bothered me, although I didn't back then have any theological training to reist their lies and heresies, I will never forget one scrum session they had with me. They tried telling me that Jesus Christ and Lucifer were brothers in a pre-existant state before Christ came to earth. I am not making this up, they actually teach this blasphemy from hell. | ||
| x11 (x11) Junior Member Username: x11 Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 208.186.103.20 |
alpha, they do teach this stuff still, scary huh? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 97 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.196 |
This is part of the 'Ordinance of the Second Anointing' in the temple, "The most important one". Performed by the prophet, or in his presence. Man and wife are dressed in temple wedding garments Husband goes first: is anointed with oil and laying hands on head; ordained King and Priest unto the Most High God, to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever. Husband is blesses with the following: 1. Sealing power to bind and loose, curse and bless 2. Blessings of Abraham, Isaiah, and Jacob. 3. The Holy Spirit of Promise bestowed. 4. Blessed to live as long as life is desirable 5. Blessed to attain unto the Godhood. 6. Power to be a member of a godhead bestowed 7. Sealed for eternal life, if not done previously 8. How to have the heavens opened 9. Other blessings as inspired to give Wife receives pretty much the same, She receives power of the priesthood, (but not without hubby,gc) She is heir to the blessings bestowed upon her husband. She can add blessings on her husband. Another ordinance can be performed in the home Pretty much the same. (NOT in Temple) They do an ordinance whereupon they repeat what Mary did for Jesus (mormons believe Jesus was married to the two Mary's, at least. He had to be to receive exaltation, which is godhood. These ordinances can be done for the dead, (which sp denies, gc) Pretty damned disgusting, isn't it? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 98 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.196 |
I had not seen this before. According to this, men become gods while on earth, in the temple. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 99 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.196 |
Now I remember a discussion my mormon mother-in-law had with us about her sister. The sister's husband had died. The sister was crying and saying she didn't WANT to be sealed to him (her dead husband), but that her children were threatening to disown her if she didn't. She felt she had no alternative. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 100 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.196 |
Now I understand how important it is to get all these memories out of my head. I had forgotten all about that until I started reading the "sealing by couples for eternity". I really didn't take these things seriously at the time. I guess somewhere in my mind I thought it wasn't really being done. | ||
| jewels81475 (jewels81475) New member Username: jewels81475 Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
reading up on some of your postings, some of you are not listening. No Mormons will not become God, they will become gods, not God-Heavenly Father. What religion are all of you? And who are you to judge Mormons? I think that in itself is blasphemous! | ||
| dean (dean) New member Username: dean Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 63.201.99.202 |
You must do your home work kido, read Isaiah 44:8 and then tell me how you will reconcile this verse with Mormon claim that God has a Father, and Father has a Father, and so on????? Did the God of Isaiah 44:8 forget his own Father???? Doctrine and Covenants 96:30 says "the glory of God is intelligence" (emphasis added). So the God of Isaiah 44:8 couldn't have forgotten there were other gods, could he????????? Hey, if you get a chance read Isaiah 43:10, and you will find out sence there were no gods before the God of the Bible, doesn't this mean that our Father had no Father-gods or Grandfather-gods before him????????? Since no gods will come after God , doesn't this mean that none of his children will become Gods??????? You really need to step out of the Mormon Box, and you will find the truth about your church and what the church really is, its nothing to be ashamed about just a little research and before you no it Like Jesus said, "the truth will set you free. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 519 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Dean: You are hung up on this "Mormon box" idea, yet are incapable of actually defining what you mean. In reality, it is you that have aproblem in that you are fixated on the use of a partiular meaning of a word, you forget that when you read your Bible the meanings of many words differ from that you will use today and therefore may not mean the same as you think. For example, though He says there are no other Gods before him, that statement can quite correctly be read to mean that in ranking order there are no other gods that rank before him, and not at all mean that no god ever existed before Him. As I have said before, much of your spurious chattering is falling at the first hurdle because you do not actually understand what you are talking about. Robert | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Joe, Isaiah 43:10 Before me there was THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED AND NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME. Isaiah 44:6 Isaiah 44:8 Isaiah 45:22 formed : made ,having or given a form or shape,clearly defined. "The great I AM" My witnesses that "I am" he. Isaiah 43:11-12 One God ! Simple. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 521 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Steel: Most definitely stating his position, but it doesn't exclude others existing that are or will be Gods without taking His position. Interesting use of the word FORMED here, is He suggesting that He was Himself formed? | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 27 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Well it says from begining to end, the alpha and the omega, He is everywhere Jer.23:23-24, he is spirit Jn. 4:24 God has always been God .Psalm 90:2 He knows all . 1Jn 3:20 He CREATED ALL THAT EXIST. Gen 1;1 Isaiah 44:24 so if he formed you, you cannot become a God , because he said neither shall their be any God formed after me. Do you believe he formed , created, made YOU? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 525 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Steel: you resptrict the use of the word God to make this mean what you want, whereas recognition that the word can and does apply on different levels (in the way that mankind can refer to a human male or female from birth to old age) allows one to see that LDS doctrine in no way disagrees with the quotes you give. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 29 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
I am saying God has always been God. Did you you suggest that he may have been formed himself. I don't think the scripture implies this. http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v12/i1/universe.asp | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 532 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Simply, yes, He will at some point have been created. This in no way takes away from the fact that He is our God, our creator. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 222 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.0.155.232 |
If god is the creator then who or what created him Joesdad "He will at some point have been created." then what created that which created god? Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 958 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.43.7 |
jd, You and your mormon prophets do not even agree with your bom. 1.Alma 11:28 Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? 29 And he answered, No. 2.Mormon 8:10- And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth carry, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have you imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles. 11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the god of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. 3.Alma 30:43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words. 44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will you tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in the regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator. 4.Alma 7:20 I perceive that it has been made known unto you, by the testimony of his word, that he cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round. 5.Moroni 10:28 I declare these things unto the fulfilling the the prophecies. And behold, they shall proceed forth out of the mouth of the everlasting God,and his word shall hiss forth from generation to generation. 31 And awake, and arise from the dust, O Jerusalem; yea, and put on thy beautiful garment, O daughter of Zion, and strengthen thy stakes and enlarge thy borders forever, that thou mayest no more be confounded, that the covenants of the Eternal Father which he hath made unto thee, O house of Israel, may be fulfilled. 6.Alma 11:44 last part says...and shall be brought and arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God.... All of the above verses come from the Book of Mormon. I only posted some, not all passages that say there is one God. The following statements come from the writings of the mormon apostles in the book, Gospel Principles: was written both as a personal study guide and as a teacher's manual, according to the first pages... therefore, you can use this manual in many ways. It can help you--- * Build your knowledge and testimony of the gospel. * Answer questions about the gospel. * Study scriptures by topics * Prepare talks. * Prepare lessons for family home evenings.j * Prepare lessons for Church meetings. The following suggestions will help you be a better teacher: 7. Rely on priesthood authority and its power to bless. Obtain divine knowledge and spiritual guidance through careful study, prayerful preparation, and righteous living. Never speculate about Church doctrine. Teach only what is supported by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit. pg. 9 All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him--a god. (I am typing this as it is shown, including caps. and lack of them.) Additional scriptures; * Joseph Smith- History 1:17 (Father and Son are separate) Chapter 2 "All men and women are...eterally the sons and daughters of Deity...Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, PRIOR to coming upon the earth in a pemporal [physical] body" (Joseph F. Smith, "The Origin of Man," Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, pp. 78, 80). Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ (D&C 93:21), so he is literally our elder brother (see Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 26). If we choose to do so, we can become perfect, just as they are. Our Heavenly Father Presented a Plan for Us to Become like Him. Since we could not progress further in heaven, our Heavenly Father called a Grand Council to present his plan for our progression (see teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 348, 349, 365.) We learned that if we followed his plan, we would become like him. We would have a resurrected body; we would have all power in heaven and on earth; we would become heavenly parents and have spirit children just as he does (see D&C 132:19-20). We learned that if we placed our faith in him, obeying his word and following his example, we would be exalted and become like our heavenly parents. We would receive a fulness of joy. This is only exerpts from the first three chapters of this mormon book. There are over 40 chapters. I'm going to skip right to the 38th Chap. pg. 245 We must seek earnestly to obey every covenant that we make in the temple. (Only members of the Church who live righteously are permitted to enter the temple (see D&C 97:15-17)). The Lord has said that if we are true and faithful we will pass by the angels to our exaltation. We will become gods. (see D&C 132:19-20). So jd. How do you choose which to believe? The Holy Bible. (You say not). The Book of Mormon which agrees with the Holy Bible that there is ONE God. Or the books written by your prophets, past and present? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 541 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Nulla: Good question - sort of goes back to the IMO naff attempts to define God in the Creeds, because we want to understand Him, we seek to define Him, yet always fall short. One day we will know, just not today. GC: Still bringing out the dead heh? You know what we believe, so why keep asking the same old same old? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Advanced Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 542 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
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