| Author | Message | ||
     thomas_s (thomas_s) New member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
I am a Christian from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. ( luckily for me ive only just gone back to church, so im no different to an investigator, therefore if i say anything that is wrong i cannot be held accountable and neither can The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ) I am now going to explain a few common Christian differences between other faiths. Mormon Christian: Believes in Jesus Christ. Faithful Christian: Believes in Jesus Christ. Other Chrisitian: Believes in Jesus Christ WOOOT!! Isnt that strange they all have the same description or belief!! ROFLMAO. Now why would somone say a Mormon isnt a Christian. The only thing that could be argued is whether or not the Jesus Christ that one religion believes in is the 'True' Jesus Christ. The reason most Mormons will not contend with other people as to why somthing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teachs is true or not is because we are taught by Jesus Christ who visited the Americas that --> (3 Nephi 11:29) "Verily, verily i say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another." Such powerful and meaningful is the words of Christ to the Nephite. Because of the goodness of intent from these words can we know for surety that these things are true. LOL anyways so now you know why Mormons will avoid this sinful behaviour. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 534 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.213 |
If the church of lds would tell investigators (like you) the whole truth, then those people could make an intelligent decision as to whether they want to join the lds church. The mormon articles of faith which you must agree to in order to join do not say "We believe in God the Eternal Father who was once a man and is still a man of flesh and bones; in his son Jesus Christ who was the son of God and his goddess in the spirit world who also has flesh and bones; and in the Holy Ghost who is different from the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit. We believe in the Bible as far as it was translated, meaning what doesn't agree with our prophet's teachings is wrong; that it is not the Holy Bible but the Book of Mormon that is the most correct of any book though it has thousands of changes in it, which is okay because it is only good for that dispensation which might be changed in this one by the current prophet who says we don't receive revelations any longer; for example though the blacks were cursed (Cain's sin) with a dark skin, now they are able to hold the priesthood which was until this dispensation held from them; but that was okay too because they had all the privileges without the responsibilities. Their wives and families, after all, were able to receive 'the laying on of hands' from the pure white priesthood holders. We believe that man is not punished for Adam's transgressions, because Adam didn't actually sin; he was just following the spiritworld plan between him, God, Jesus, and the others. After all, The twelve who were with Jesus in his ministry will judge the twelve tribes of Israel, the Nephite Twelve will judge the Nephite and Lamanite people, and the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles in our own dispensation will also judge us. So if we live as good mormons we will have all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge until the perfect day shall burst upon them, and they will become gods. If, after telling investigators all these things, and those people choose to join the lds church, that is their choice. As for mormons not being contentious as we Christians are because mormons are taught to love us, I suggest you spend some time reading the factnet threads on mormonism then tell me how uncontentious good, temple endowed mormoms are. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 535 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.213 |
Thomas, one more thing about your statement. The Holy Bible has already given us Christ's admonitions about our behavior. You really should read it first before crediting the bom, which was written less than 200 years ago. | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) New member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
The Prophets of the church have been given direct revelation concerning the Bible. Yes Godchild, the Mormon members of these forums involve themselves in these pointless arguments with contentious people. Alot of these games played on the internet are Satans designs to lure the week minded people into believing everything that is written here on these boards, and really attempts to shake ones faith. I here that you were once a Mormon, now the only reason somone would leave the Mormon way of life would be if a Mormon did wrong by them. If you care to share your story i may be able to help you get over your stumbling block. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
Mormon "prophets" have been given revelations--straight from the pits of hell. Here's one of my stumbling blocks, Thomas: In 1968 [EDIT: 1978 (my mind wandered)] the "Prophet" was suddenly given a "revelation" that Blacks could be given the Aaronic and Melchizidek priesthood, which they were barred from prior to this year because the Mormon "Church" teaches that black skin the the "mark (curse) of Cain." The "Church", through "Prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith had previously declared that according to God's alleged "law" this would always be the case. Now additionally, what this "revelation", subsequently added to DyC, fails to admit--although if you look at the newspapers from 1967-1968 [EDIT: 1978-1979 (still thinking MLK Jr...)]you'll learn the truth--is that there were class-action lawsuits being filed around the US against the LDS Corporation of the Presidency for racial discrimination as a result of this matter. Then, suddenly, the "Prophet" got a red-line call from GOD, or so he said. As well, the Corporation later made one of those "spelling" changes, as you call them, in 2 Nephi removing the word "white" referring to the skin of the elect to match up with this "revelation". One more doctrine of man to be tossed upon the waves of contradiction, if you ask me--but you're the self-professed expert. Take a look at Deuteronomy 18:15-22, and then tell me how your "prophet" (and the idea thereof) squares with the Word of GOD. And, again, you are not a Christian--you worship a false Christ...You are decieved. Contention that is of Satan is that which defends a lie in the face of truth--your Jesus most definitely fits that bill. In His Grace, miki (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 06, 2005) | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) New member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
I will not content with you. Firstly you say "Here's one of my stumbling blocks, Thomas" Then you say "you are not a Christian--you worship a false Christ" If you have already made up your mind and are not willing to soften your heart, i am not willing to waste my time explaining these things to you. If you would like to appologise i already forgive you. So if you want to edit your post i will be more than happy to help you. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
So, in other words you do not have an intelligent "relevatory" answer. Just as I thought. Soften my heart to match your brain? I think not, Thomas. I will not apologise for telling the truth, I will not apologise for defending orthodoxy and the True Christ. You do not need to forgive me for I have not committed any sin against you, and I do not require your forgiveness. GOD is my Judge, and I'm more than happy to meet Him as I am. No, what you offer, Love, is not help but misologies inspired by Satan himself. The quicker you figure that out, the better off you'll be and the sooner you'll have the tools you need to leave the demonic cult that is Mormonism. And you're right--I have made up my mind. But I educated it on the facts, first--not the subjective fluff of emotional want to be accepted by my ward. In His Grace, miki | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
Thomas wrote: "...the only reason that someone would leave the Mormon way would be if a Mormon did wrong by them..." This hails back to your claim, "...if I say anything that is wrong I cannot be held accountable and neither can The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints..." (This is patently absurd) AND: "...Now why would someone say that a Mormon isn't a Christian? [sic] The only thing that can be argued is whether or not the Jesus Christ that one religion believes in is the 'True' Jesus Christ..." Well, at least you got the last part right. But when challenged to show us your "Christ" you haven't got an thesis of any kind but to cry "persecution"--what kind of defense is this??? See, this is the problem, Thomas. You come onto a board devoted to the exposure of dangerous and damaging "religions", admit that you're an upstart, and then try to dismiss the culpability of your statements by letting us know that your zeal far outweighs your actual knowledge. This is not the way to give an apologia of any kind, Love. The first quote I make here is also correct. I left Mormonism because a Mormon did me wrong--a whole passel of 'em, actually. First Joseph Smith lied to me and told me he was a prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon was the most perfect book of inspired scripture ever known to man... Then all my school chums tried to convince me that if I'd just join the Church, I'd find sublime happiness... Then my sorority president (Lamda Delta Sigma) told me that if I would move to Provo and study at the college by the Missionary Training Center I'd go on a mission for GOD... Then the Corporation of the Presidency lied to meand told me that the Book of Mormon they gave me was the same one that JS Jr wrote (and I read it eight times before I discovered that lie)... Then the Apostle M Russell Ballard sat me down (twice) in his office and told me that reading the old "Church" documents was reserved to those who had the authority to do so and that I didn't need to do anything by read my Relief Society Manual and my Triple every year to have an authentic testimony... And I couldn't figure out why I felt so depressed. My bishop and stake president lied to me again and again and claimed that I had some secret sin and that I wasn't trying hard enough to be a "good" Molly Mormon. Then they told me that I was bad because I questioned things that didn't make any sense... Then--after my first suicide attempt when my bishop had told me I'd be better off dead than cause discontent among my sisters because I sought the objective truth--I was told that it was all my fault, not the "Church's" And then they lied some more trying to convince me how happy I was...(NOT!)... And when I started to study the old "Church" documents in earnest and discovered the truth, I was told that I was destined for Outer Darkness because of my disobedience to an Apostle... And when I confronted the bishopric about the emotional and verbal abuse they had subjected me to for studying these things I was told that I was an "evil apostate"...and they delivered my certificate of excommunication to my front door at two o'clock the next morning (which I gladly accepted)--the bishop, the stake president and three counselors... So, you're right, I was done wrong. That's what one gets for using the brain GOD gave 'em and not swallowing every sugary marshmallow that gets tossed into one's mouth. I don't like being lied to--especially not by people who claim to speak for GOD. The Mormon cult is nothing but lies and veiled abuse--I learned that the hard way. The Mormon cult also disapproves of independent intellectuals in it's ranks--I learned that the hard way, too. So, yes, Thomas, I've made up my mind--and the only "help" you can offer is to tell the whole truth, admit that you don't know what in blazes you're talking about and just keep your fingers quiet until you do... In His Grace, miki (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 05, 2005) | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) New member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
Thanks miki, Rock is still not shaken. (since i have not been told that i cannot) I will have to read the original scriptures, i trust your source of this information is a legitimate 1st publishing of the Book of Mormon in its original state? It is not me who knows, but the Spirit. I dont claim interlect. I can understand why you were pushed away from the Church. I have so much faith in the Holy Ghost to guide me, that i feel like i can confront all my stumbling blocks through faith. Now i believe the Book of Mormon to be true, this gives me a Testimony of all the things within the Church, if however i find that the original print of the Book of Mormon is completely differnt and i dont feel that same spirit after praying i will know for surety. Although even if these things are not true even from moral grounds it is not a good thing to condemn with an unkown spirit. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 42 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
It's a *fascimile* copy, Thomas. Do you know what a fascimile is??? You go and you do that. I don't care to "shake your rock", Thomas. I care not to allow you to promulgate the lies of your cult unanswered where other people might see them and be decieved. But it's not a huge issue, being that you are a dreadfully inept apologist. You actually help me do what I do better by your paltry responses. You have so much faith in that demonic ghost of your's that you've abandoned all reason. You claim that you will not "content" with me, and yet here we are--with you spinning in circles nipping at my ankles like a toy Dobie named Napoleon...alll bark, no teeth... You believe whatever you want to--it's still a lie and you still don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. When you've compared editions, then we'll talk. In His Grace, miki | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) New member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
Learned and Spiritual Wisdom are two different things, once i have explained certain things to you all you can do is have a dig at my intelligence. "Do you have any witnesses to this facsimiles authenticity?" If so provide it, and email the document to me. Would you like me to write you a step by step tutorial on how to download MSN and add a new contact, so that we can discuss these things on a more personal level. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
Spiritual "wisdom" devoid of truth is deception, Thomas--no matter how you try to spin it with that heartburn you errantly believe is GOD talking. And one cannot have spiritual wisdom without absolute truth. What you are promoting on this matter is sophistry, pure and simple. The authenticity of the Palmyra edition can be had by contacting the Marketing dept of LDS Books (I've dealt with Jacob in the past) and the archivist at the Worldwide Community of Christ (Ron Romig)--they possess the original autograph done by JS Jr's "scribes" and the printer's plates from the first printing. I'm not going to do the work for you--but I will tell you how to get the information yourself. And, pardon, but you've been personal enough already. What's wrong--can't hack the heat of being lambasted in a public forum, Thomas? Want to take this to a back room so you can take the gloves off and tell me how you *really* "feel". Nothing doing--if you want to promote heresy in a public forum, then you can be dressed down for the same in like manner. In His Grace, miki | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) New member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
I do not wish to humilliate you that is all. I feel sorrow for you, in your state of loss. (Galatians Chapter 6) | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
Please, feel free to humiliate me. In fact, the only humiliation I've witnessed thus far is in your insistence in not dealing with the issues. You claim you won't contend with me, and so far you've kept that promise--the trouble comes in that you just keep spouting without saying much of anything. I'm not worried--if you had any defense worth stating, we'd have it in black and white by now.... My "state" is victory in Christ, and you are grasping at straws, Thomas. In His Grace, miki | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) Junior Member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
I cannot help you if you are not willing to ask for help. Just do me a favour and read Galatians 6, my Bible opened up to it as i was looking for that scripture u mentioned earlier. The Holy Ghost must have directed me to it in order to teach you somthing. I do not know how to approach it so i will just let you read it. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
I am not the one in need of help, Love. And, I'm sorry but the Holy Spirit is showing you nothing regarding me. Galatians is written to converted pagans and chapter six explains the fact that only those under the Law (Mosaic Law) are beholden to the Law. I already answered you this: MY VICTORY IS IN CHRIST--I *am* guided by the Spirit, and I am not under the Law. This is a false argument and you cannot teach what you doubt as errant--ie: your view of the Bible... Regardles, I will read a couple more of these ridiculous posts, and then I have to get some sleep. I have a meeting with my editors at 2pm. In His Grace, miki (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 05, 2005) | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) Junior Member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
Alright well till next time, i hope your Christ teaches you to be more humble, so that we can hopefully get somwhere next time. Till then. Good night. Sweet Dreams. Dont forget to pray and ask the Lord to protect you while you sleep. (Ever since i started praying again i havent had any bad thoughts and no evil spirits have been able to get into my dreams.) | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.154.34.29 |
That's the demon on your back again, Thomas... In His Grace, miki | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) Junior Member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
Shhh, u said you were going to bed:P LOL, MSN woulda been much easier. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 556 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.20 |
Thomas, I started posting on factnet (the mormon threads) I believe the end of January. You will find lots of posts from me about leaving the lds in 1986. It wasn't a person who was responsible for my leaving the lds. It was years of hearing things like "God had literal intercourse with Mary", from a teacher in a Sunday class; when I would ask my stepfather (a bishop) questions about things I had been told in class, and being told I was just not worthy enough yet to understand. That was the pat answer even though my stepfather considered me worthy enough to come and ask me how he could get my other siblings back into the church, (which none of them to my knowledge have ever asked for a letter 'no longer called' of excommunication). I told him to try 'loving' them back into it. He looked confused and that ended that conversation; when I found out the lds church teaches that men can become a god just like the God of my Holy Bible. That was enough for me. As a very young child, God blessed me with a grandmother who took me to a Bible teaching church. I wouldn't even involve myself in this if I didn't (to this day) see antichrist teachings from the lds being practiced by my own Mother. Example: She prays to my stepfather. That is called 'NECROMANCY' which if you do read the Holy Bible you will learn is strictly forbidden. But why shouldn't she. She believes, as she was taught by the lds, that he is now preparing an earth for her and all the other wives he can get. I love John Stausles words, "Give me a break! Now, why don't you share why you just 'recently went back to the lds'? It should be considered part of your 'testimony' and yet I have an idea you won't share it. I have asked another mormon who used to post here the same question with no answer. I wonder why. | ||
| thomas_s (thomas_s) Junior Member Username: thomas_s Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 60.226.29.167 |
I started writing my entire life story, but then realised it was gonna take all day. So ill skip ahead to the part where i pulled back into the religion. Grew up with Father. Got kicked out of home for smoking weed. Went to live with my Mother. I left the Church when i was 14. Did alot of illegal activity. Got my Girlfriend pregnant. Had child at 15. Did not honour my Girlfriend. Broke many of the commandments. When i was 19 Elders knocked on our door, i was surprised to see a tall dark man with the exact same last name as mine on his badge, it was my cousin. I wasnt really amazed but now i look back and think. Later i went to Phillipines when i was 21. My Father called and said if u see any missionaries say "Hi, they will love it" Since i had a soft spot for Elders,i thought that would be a good idea. No doubt i ran into the missionaries about 3 times on my holiday. Each time i saw them i felt like i was home. When i came back i was still amazed that even though im so far away from home the Elders would just pop out of nowhere and be standing right infront of me. At 23 yrs i returned to an old job i once had, and while working one night i started humming "Praise to the Man" a song i hadnt heard since i was 14. Then later that week my Father rang and invited me and my daughter to a Church Fire site. While there the opening Hymn was "Praise to the Man" as i was singing i nearly started crying, somthing a hardened criminal would not do. So i fought back the tears of joy, and went on my way. Later on i told my Father that i had been humming that song in my head at work that week. I then asked if i could have my old Book of Mormon back so that i could at least read it once properly from a more "sain" perspective. I then started reading my Book of Mormon and became really indulged with it,id read 10 chapters a night on average sometimes more. Then i began to pray that i might understand the things that i had read on a spiritual level after reading how Alma had said to look at he Lehis Journey from a spiritual perspective. After seeing the Faith that the Anit-LehiNephi had i too wanted to have that Faith. I went to my local chapel and spoke with the Bishop, i told him that i read the Book of Mormon and hold family home evenings every week and that i want to give my daughter the joys of the Gospel that i once had as a child, he was very astonished. We then organised to have the Elders come teach us. The Elders think its amazing how i always compare the scriptures to almost everything i talk about. Now iv skipped alot of things cause im unable to write much at this time. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints manfesting to a loved one or prophet is not considered 'NECROMANCY' its more of a 'pass this message on to such n such for me'. I do not agree with being able to have more than 1 wife, i do not believe knowing or learning about it is neccesary to our Eternal Salvation. I do believe if life is Eternal after death that we have forever to learn how to do things and explore the galaxies, we will never be equal to God, we may however be equal to what he is now in trillions bazzillion bah long long time.. Anyways, i really need to speak to miki so miki if u read this can you please add me to MSN waterfire7@hotmail.com | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 562 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.70 |
I can understand feeling comfortable in a church you grew up in. Did you ever go to another church? You mention reading the bom but no mention of the Holy Bible. Too bad you don't consider it's importance. Praying to a person or prophet who is dead is necromancy, whether you're a mormon or not. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.129.33.82 |
I was just thinking the same thing, Godchild, regarding the Bible... Thomas, your "testimony" is no different than any of the thousands of others I've heard over the years. What it basically boils down to is a feeling of inadequacy or discontent (crisis) being met by the feel-good assurances of Mormon culture. But that does not mean that it comes from GOD. And since Satan preys on us when we are most vunerable, it's not surprising to me that your cousin just happened to be serving his mission and landed on you doorstep when you were in crisis. Man's most inward desire is for sanity (reason) and acceptance. Mormonism offers that (that "answer for everything" you mentioned), what it doesn't offer is authentic faith in the True Christ, Y'shua, GOD Incarnate. Here's what Mormonism teaches that I know to be false: 1. "As man is now, God once was. As God is now, man may become." a. If God was once a man living in a world called Kolob and ruling over a heavenly council, then who was his God? b. If "Eternal Progression" entitles us to become gods, then where and who is the first God, and who created him??? He had to have a beginning, according to this logic, so where did he come from? 2. Women who are sealed to a husband in the Temple and attain Celestial glory will become goddesses, have sex with said husband (god) and create "spiritual children" who will be sent to a planet like ours and repeat the same cycle all over again. (And her husband will have sex with one of their children to create a savious-child)... a. To what end? b. Why create new worlds if the alleged children we create are just going to muck it up and we have to give them one good, perfect child to slaughter so as to make sure they come home? How is this reasonable? ...What it basically comes down to is that Mormonism is a pantheistic, inscestuous cult that teaches personal godhood--similar to Hindi or Druidism. It has no reasonable beginning, and no reasonable purpose. It denies the unique premise of a Sovereign Creator who used intelligent design to do what is impossible to the human intellect--create wonder out of nothing and hold a universe in play that physics says *cannot* exist. It denies the fact that GOD--who was always GOD, not man--condescended to His creation by making Himself like them to regain them for Himself. Eternal Progression is a doctrine that denies grace and dependence on Christ for salvation, and encourages the myth of one's own intrinsic godhood-in-embryo. This is why I am no longer a Mormon, Thomas--because Mormon doctrines are not reasonable. Because the Book of Mormon--however "good" the story is--is counterfeit "scripture". Because the Mormon mythology cannot stand up to close scrutiny. Because the Mormon heresy denies my Majesty, Jesus Christ. Knowing this, Thomas, why do you "need" to talk to me? You can't lure me back into a cult that I know to be a fraud, so to what end to you feel driven to demand that I IM you? Until you can be reasonable, and actually admit that you haven't got this thing in the bag, I really see no purpose in taking this into a private discussion because you've made it very clear that you will not look at matters objectively--you only want to convince someone that what you believe is "true". You haven't done a very good job, to this end. I say this to you as a former Mormon, a born-again Christian and one who works regularly in cult-exit counselling. There is no purpose in having a conversation with one who refuses to investigate the documented facts of their own religion and who questions his own organisations historical manuscripts as "hearsay"... I will pray for you, though. In His Grace, miki | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 486 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Thomas: Welcome to the lions den! Just a few things directed to you initially - you will find through GC's posts many contradictions, her claims twist, turn and weave as she jumps from one thread to another - hence the oft made statement from myself that she is, to use a description that is truly apt and in no way meant to be derogatory, a liar. From what she has said previously, so far as I can figure she made a study of some sort regarding the then Apostles of the Church, whcih when presented to a lecturer at College she was asked not to publish, her refusal to do so was directly relevant to her being excommunicated from the Church. Unfortunately she has so little real understanding of the Church, it's beliefs and the way it works she is still under the false impression it was her CHOICE to leave, when in fact she appears to have acted to attack the Church through it's leaders and has been cut off from the Lord due to these acts. To exeplify the levl she is at spiritually, upon my commenting to another on these threads that I had been excummunicated, her reposnse was purely mocking, and attempted to TAUNT me into revealing further details of my transgressions that led to it happening. Fortunately, as we actually do be believe in a Christ that sacrificed Himself, in the Garden of Gethsemae to allow us to have such sins removed form us, through trust in Him and repentance, I KNOW such details are well in the past. How can ANY TRUE Christian not want to respect a persons desire to walk away from their sins? GC: I very much wonder if a lot of waht you say about your Mother's beliefs are your "tainted" impressions or interpretations. In the moths I have been "talking" to you it has become clear that you have within you a great, and predominantly frustrated desire to do the Church harm, and because you cannot discover a way to actually do this, you fall back on the usual petty attack with material provided by those you admire such as the Tanners. Unfortunately you stem on forward without taking time to consider either the accuracy of such comments, or of how relying on them blurrs your vision of relaity so much we cannot imagine what it is you see. Do you not stop to consider that there are some, I am sure many, who see religion, Full Stop, as you see Mormonism - preferring to attack and accuse in an effort to build some justification for thet incorrect views and actions? I am sure if you ask Yaakov, he can verify that his faith has for many centuries had it detractors, and those that have wanted to exterminate it through fear, and misuderstanding (Hmm the Boggs extermination order springs to mind in relation to that), and those that has puposely twisted the real meaning of it's teachings. Such actions NEVER just stop at the accuser, because there will always be others, who for many diefferent reasons find themselves needing someting to attack with, will use such falsehoods and hold them up as truths. Pointlessshrew: Please, what is the Origin of the "orthodoxy" you claim? Is what YOU believe pre Council of Nicea? If so, some insight from someone who has made a much deeper study than I, as to why this was necessary (as it was obviously NOT the result of any major Church groups coming up with differing ideas of the core Christian beliefs - or there being any serious falling away from the original core beliefs)would be gratefully received. Also, some indication of where I may find details of your claimed 1968 revelation may be found or is this a typo for 1978?, from your research, the actions you refer to, where any succesful?, can any actually be shown to have had ANY influence upon the Church's decision, or was it more to do with the many actions being taken by those attached to the free rights movements who were at that time (late 60's) finding a strong voice? Thanks | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.168.62.128 |
Joesdad: My apologies--that is a typo. I was thinking about Martin Luther King Jr (contemplating a quote of his that I deferred from using) and didn't catch that. But, yes, that is exactly what I am referring to. To my knowledge there were three discrimination suits that were settled with Corporation of the Presidency from that time, but I have never pursued procuring notarized copies of transcripts from those court proceedings. I can, however, if necessary. As to whether or not this litigation can "be shown to have had ANY influence upon the Church's decision" you tell me--the Corporation of the Presidency backtracks on it's previous stance that denying the priesthood to Blacks is an unchanging edict straight from GOD and that they will never be admitted to the priesthood because of the "curse of Cain", and suddenly reverses this position at the exact time they are being sued for multi-millions of dollars in compensatory damages. Add to this the fact that they then changed the phrase "white and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome" in 2 Nephi when talking about the skin of the elect, and that they began moving away from Bruce McConkie's most unflattering (and even beligerent and racist) treatment of Blacks and the Mormon faith in his works--I'd say that's a bit more than coincidence. And sounds just a little too convenient to be revelation from on high... On another matter, if by "pre Council of Nicea" you mean the Ante-Nicene Fathers of the Church, then yes, I study these writings regularly, along with the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Eusebius' "History of the Church", the collected writings of Josephus and even some of the Jewish Commentators, among others. What you have to keep in mind that while a dogma may be a matter of universal belief and practise in the Church, there is never any reason to define or restate a doctrinal belief or formula until some heretic (or group thereof) comes along and starts polluting the community of Faith. That's where you get the organic development of docrtine--restating a known doctrinal matter to the exclusion of a competing heresy. It is exactly this fact that disproves the Mormon heresy of a Great Apostasy. Considering that the Ante-Nicene Fathers learned the Gospels either directly from the Apostles of Jesus Christ or from their own disciples who were sent out by them, I am more inclined to conclude that their faith is far more authentic than that which extrapolates and manufactures itself from unreliable sources. Additionally, you might also want to consider that the veracity and authenticity of the Bible you hold in your hands is wholly dependent on these same Councils and Church Fathers. The promulgating of the Gospels was largely an oral enterprise until the fourth century--just like Judaism before it. There was no organised Codex until the Church sought to stamp out fraudulent records once and for all. More than eighty documents claiming to be gospels were investigated by the Council Fathers--only four are considered inspired. So, if you believe the Bible to be the Word of GOD, that belief is wholly dependent on whether or not the Church Fathers in the late fourth century had the leading of the Holy Spirit to make that distinction without error. It is also interesting that while the same Councils codified 73 books--not 66--Jesus took the vast majority of his allusions to, and quotes from, Scripture right out of *one* of these documents chosen by what the Mormon religion calls pagan heretics, the Book of Sirach--a book of "sayings" that Protestants and cultists alike deny as apocryphal. So, Jesus himself, according to Mormon revisionist tactics, was a heretic. According to Mormon and Watchtower revisionist history, the "Great Apostasy" occurred in the first century--not the fourth or the fifth--and the early Church was taken over by a bunch of pagan heretics, as previously stated. Using that logic, you have absolutely no rationale to trust *any* translation of the Bible because you cannot ascertain that any of the books included in it are inspired of GOD, being that it was these same "heretics" that chose and ratified them as canonical. I, however, in all of my studies of the Early Fathers of the Church, have yet to find anything that doesn't square with Scripture. But I have found much in the Mormon "Church" that does not. So, yes, I cannot ascribe the term "orthodox" to anything in Mormonism--including, but hardly limited to, their definitions of GOD and Jesus Christ... In His Grace, miki (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 06, 2005) | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.168.62.128 |
BTW Joesdad: For what concievable purpose do you cast aspersions and insults on Godchild's accounting of her life? Were you there? If not, then by what right to you insinuate that she is anything and anyone than who she claims to be? Aside the fact that I find the motives behind such a nasty display suspect, I wonder why you feel so threatened by her that you need to publicly harrass and mock her...unless what she is saying is absolutely true and you fear that she might actually have a favourable influence on Thomas. Nonetheless, it's uncalled for. And what it brings to mind for me is what I saw so often when people left the Mormon cult during my time in it--elders, and even sisters, would insult, slander and calumniate the "apostate" to drive them even further off and purge themselves of any guilt in their leaving. The sad truth was than more often than not, if you talked to the victim of such stories, and/or their families, the actual facts were quite different from the stories swirling around the ward... And one of the Tanner's cousins, Geri, was a close friend of mine from the singles ward I was in during college--if you ever met them you would know that every insult you cast in their direction is a lie. It's all a result of that smug, self-righteous pack mentality that Mormons are so infamous for. In His Grace, miki | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Advanced Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 562 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Hi Joesdad, welcome back! I was missing you. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 570 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.22 |
Oh dear! What shall I do! My reprieve is over. But I am so grateful because joesdad has once again shown the fallicy of mormon beliefs. The Holy Bible teaches that Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself on the cross. There is not only one statement in the Bible about this, but several (which mormons may not know) by different authors at different times. What did joesdad say? (I think this was a slip of the tongue, or should I say fingers)"We believe in a Christ, that sacrificed himself in the Garden of Gethsemane to allow us to have sins removed from us." Why is it that mormons always avoid blood? Blood on the cross, blood as a part of their God; one of flesh and bone and no blood? Now I will respond to his other statements about me. Thomas, this is for you as jd's was. GC posts many contradictions, her claims twist, turn and weave as she jumps from one thread to another-hense the oft made statement from myself that she is, to use a description that is fully apt and in no way meant to be derogatory, a liar. Thomas, if you will kindly take just a little time to review the past posts on the mormon threads you will find the following: jd was quite friendly to me at first, he even (for what reason I am not sure of) gave a description of me as to the kind of person I am; college educated, blah, blah, blah. He was not calling me a liar yet. I explained to him that I am not college-educated, (I took two courses in our community college; typing and art), that I am pretty much self learned, and similarly answered his other guesses. My first post, if you want to read it, was on Jan. 14. I described my life and time as a mormon. You will find I have not changed that when speaking of myself. Next, jd says "She made a study of some sort regarding the then Apostles of the Church, which when presented to a lecturer at college she was asked not to publish, her refusal to do so was directly relevant to her being excommunicated from the church." This was pretty surprising to me when I read it as it is a bold-faced lie by jd. I always give credit to different authors and books when I post in order to show I am not writing my own fiction book. (Which, at this time I am not considering). On one post I shared the article about Michael Quinn, a professor at BYU who was excommunicated after publishing his article about the fallicies of mormonism. jd did another one of his "where did you read that?" I'm sure I am not the only exmormon who has read Michael Quinn's articles. So you see, jd lied again when he said that was the reason I was excomminicated. jd "She has so little understanding of the church, it's beliefs and the way it workds she is still under the false impression it was her choice to leave, when the Church through its leaders and has been cut off from the Lord due to these acts." Another lie, which you can verify from my posts. jd "To exemplify the level she is at spiritually, upon my commenting that I had been excommunicated, her response was mocking and attempted to TAUNT me." I see no shame in admitting my mistakes and hope that by sharing them someone else may not make the same ones. If jd feels that much shame, then it is in his mind that he doesn't feel fully forgiven. That's his personal problem, and who he is and what he does or has done doesn't matter to me at all. In fact, I attempted many times to disuade him from personalizing his posts and using me as his subject for name calling, which is evidenced again by his last post here. Other people have asked about his interest in me. I really don't care. jd, "If what you say about your Mothers' beliefs are your "tainted" impressions or misinterpretations. In the mos I have been talking to you it has become clear that you have within you a great and frustrated desire to do the Church harm, and because you cannot actually find a way to do this, you fall back on the usual petty attack with material provided by the Tanners- we cannot imagine what you see." This is the portion of my Mothers' email in question: "I thank Heavenly Father and Waldo [him being my stepfather](Waldo as our guardian angel=He has the priesthood authority to do this-so he does not do it but just like in mortality he had this authority to pray for blessings. (He is blessed to do it spiritually) that your leg is better." This is not the first conversation my Mom and I have had about her praying to my stepfather. jd believes it is clear I have a great and frustrated desire to do the church harm and fall back on the Tanners for PETTY attacks. I have expressed my reasons for posting many times, but if anyone wants to take jd's reading my mind, go ahead. It cannot change the facts. Lastly, jd said I will use falsehoods to show them up as proof. Evidence, jd. Give evidence! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 571 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.22 |
When I said I think jd made a slip of the fingers about the sacrifice being in the Garden and not on the cross, I meant slip as in he really didn't mean to share that mormon doctrine with us. Actually, it pleased me because I have been reading about just the same thing, a false mormon belief, and he confirmed it. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 80 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.142.94.126 |
 te hehe...You crack me up, Vivian... "...this is My Blood of the Covenant..." Evidentally, Jesus Christ doesn't play the central role in Mormon theology as He is purported to...If He did, the Cross wouldn't be such an affront to them... In His Grace, miki | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 179 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Thomas… you wrote: “Mormon Christian: Believes in Jesus Christ. Faithful Christian: Believes in Jesus Christ. Other Chrisitian: Believes in Jesus Christ WOOOT!! Isnt that strange they all have the same description or belief!! ROFLMAO. Now why would somone say a Mormon isnt a Christian. The only thing that could be argued is whether or not the Jesus Christ that one religion believes in is the 'True' Jesus Christ.” If a Mormon is a Christian and the only thing that can be argued is as you clearly state, then please explain the below statement made by Brigham Young “no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are” This means that I as a Christian cannot enter heaven unless I become a Mormon. If so then how can being a Mormon and being a Christian be the same. WOOOT!! Isnt that strange they DON’T all have the same description or belief!! ROFLMAO. Nulla | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 93 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.159.101.75 |
I am addressing this post in this thread because it was started by Thomas. I recieved a private email from Thomas at some point today telling me that he will not be posting in these forums any longer because of the "damage" it has done to him. It seem that the night he first started these threads, Thomas had the idea that absolutely nothing could shake his testimony in Mormonism, but then somehow he located an 1830 copy of the BofM after I told him to compare it with his own and he stayed up half the night reading it. He also claims to have been looking at Joseph and Emma Smith's diaries (I think I know where he found these). When he showed up at what I think was either Priesthood or Sunday Scool Meeting (I'm assuming this morning) and posed some of the same questions that have been put here by us, only one elder, evidentally, had any clue what poor Thomas was talking about. He was devastated. This, as I understand it, was why he was pressing so desperately for me to IM him. Because he said in this email that he had some suicidal thoughts, I have told him to call me at home--it is time to introduce Thomas to Jesus. If and when he does, I will ask him if I can share this email of his. If he says yes, anyone is welcome to contact me privately for a copy--just so that you can understand how important this work is. So, I just want to say to those others here who helped to lay out the facts about the Mormon cult--Nulla, Vivian and others--thank you. One more soul being readied by the Spirit of GOD to return to Christ's true Faith! Please pray for Thomas. He needs our intercession more than ever now! Praised be Jesus Christ, now and forever!!! In His Grace, miki | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 181 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Tell Thomas if you are able to make contact no matter what his spiritual outcome is he will be in my thoughts. Though we never crossed paths I do hope that he can call back sometime to say hello. I am sure this goes for all of us on both sides of the arguement. If you drop in and happen to read this Thomas please hang in there mate... there will be many many good times ahead and ahead is just around the corner. Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 574 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.224 |
Thank you for sharing, Miki. Thomas, It is for you and others that we are here. You are not alone. Please know, that through your pain, the Lord and His angels are rejoicing this day for you. I pray the angels will surround you at this time and comfort you. I pray that the Holy Spirit will provide you with the strength to stand behind your convictions. Go with God. "Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you shall find." God will not fail you. My email address is vivart@cmextreme.com. Contact me anytime. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Advanced Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 569 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Pointlessshrew (Miki) Did Thomas tell you that you could post his personal information on the web? If not, you did a great sin by breaking his confidences. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 98 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.158.48.145 |
Yes, I asked him. I also asked him late last night if he would mind me sharing his email with those who are praying for him, but I haven't heard back from him on that note, and I will not disclose such unless he gives permission to do so. He wrote me again last night and told me that he is feeling better and less frenzied about the situation he's in. My purpose in letting people here know what's going on is for no other reason than that they can *pray* for Thomas, I've kept his "personal" information to myself... In His Grace, miki | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 197 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Hello all , back off vacation, hit the beach for a weak. Viv , great catch on Joesdad quote. For by ONE ACT The Tree (CROSS) did he die for our sins. Not the Garden. I think Thomas Felt what we exmos have all felt, that the TRUTH Hurts sometimes. He will be in my prayers. Joe, we still love ya, & miss the healthy debates. To all, GLORY IN THE CROSS. Steel | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 576 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.49.218 |
Hi, steel. Great to see you back. And I hope Thomas realizes he isn't the first nor the last mormon who, upon discovering the truth, feels devastated. He obviously loves his wife and daughter. I would be thankful to know that his child won't have to go through this ordeal. From experience I know once your eyes have been opened, all the baggage will tumble in on you at once, it seems. This is where the Holy Spirit can help him. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 182 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Good 2 c u Steelsworld... I'm sure you would have liked another week. In case I missed it has there been an update on Richards well being? Nulla | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Nulla , my last update was that they are trying a type of radiation that tagets his tumor,& it is shrinking. Of course he is worn out, but his spirit is Great. Thanks again everybody for the prayers. steel. | ||
| dondi (dondi) New member Username: dondi Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.233.207.96 |
Does anyone know anything about a mormon woman after she dies becoming eternally preganant and inhabiting a planet with the children? Just something I heard and was wondering. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 104 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.166.230.113 |
When a Mormon woman has recieved her "Endowment" (a Temple ceremony for age/office-eligible members that seemed to me like a cross between the Job's Daughters initiation ceremony and a Lutheran Confirmation) and is subsequently "sealed" to her husband in "Temple Marriage" (any child they give birth to is subsequently sealed to their union, as well), she has the probability of "Celestial Glory" in Heaven--provided she's a good Molly Mormon unto death. After both she and her husband are physically dead, resurrected and living in "glorified bodies" in the "Celestial Kingdom of Heaven", depending on their merits, they may attain godhood. The most simple way to explain this is to say that Heavenly Father says "You done good" and gives the happy couple their own planet/universe (depending on which General Authority is giving the exegesis) to habitate. They remain in "celestial glory", but in a very concrete chronology, they have actual sexual intercourse and create "spirit" children (finer matter than physical children--it's a long story)--through the same ways and means as physical procreation in this life. These billions of spirit children have to have "life experience" in order to to gain a physical body and know happiness, "good from evil" (called "Our Heavenly Father's Plan"), so the new god "Heavenly Father" #??? (How many gods actually exist in this continuum, nobody really knows...) creates a new world (read: Genesis *repeats* itself with new players--including "God"...) and life begins all over again. People who procreate here on earth are providing a physical body for a spirit child to habitate. While abortion is dubbed a profound evil in Mormon doctrine, it is still allowed as a matter of "directed" (read: you need your bishop's permission) convenience on the basis that the spirit child waiting for that body will be given another one to come into at a later time--maybe even through a different family. So, in Mormon theology, we don't just have a "Heavenly Father", but a "Heavenly Mother", as well. Jesus Christ is our elder brother--as is Lucifer, but he was bad and got kicked out of the house. Poor Lucy... And where we live in the world, what our financial circumstances will be, even the colour of our skin, is predetermined depending on *how* we performed and *who* we played with in Pre-existence. When I was an investigator the sister missionaries showed me an animated video decribing the Council of Heaven and this "system" of beliefs. The Biblical basis for this fairy tale exists, but it's very shaky. I wish I had it today--it'd be golden, but I can't even remember the name of it...The cover is pink, if you ever go looking. In His Grace, miki | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.166.230.113 |
One other thing about "life experience"--this is the Mormon explanation for human suffering. The gist of it is that if we just remained "spirit children" in Heaven with our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother we will never gain the experiences of consequence. Ie: One cannot know the value of bliss if one has not known pain; one cannot be satiated if one has not experienced true hunger--one cannot know the "True Goodness of God" if one hasn't been separated from Him. One other strange feature of this doctrine is that whilst we each supposedly experienced a lively pre-existent life, complete with free will and reasoning skills intact (you chose the family you were born into, you know), we have no memory of it. Why? Because in this life, a "veil" has been cast betwen us and the spirit world so as not to influence our "free agency"--but each world co-habitates interdependently (that "fine matter" issue, again); we just can't see it. But they see us...and everything will be revealed to us at the Judgement. Seems like a really bad rip off of the Communion of saints to me... In His Grace, miki | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 580 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.207 |
miki, I think I know now what you mean 'fine matter' though it was never explained to me in those terms. When discussing this with my Mom years ago, (if my recollection is correct) she said all the dead are floating around us in spiritual bodies. My odd sense of humor go the best of me and I immediately imagined all the billions of people who died banging into each other right over my head. The image got me laughing out loud which happened often when learning mormon beliefs. A different but similar in an odd way was from a phone call I received from Mom years later (after I left the church). She was so excited and wanted to share with me that 'we can communicate with rocks'. I learned as a small child never to argue with Mom so I didn't respond until I got off the phone and my husband and I had a good laugh over it. That was in the 90's. Poor Mom, if the church says it, it's got to be true. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.142.154.186 |
I'm laughing, too. I seem to remember a talk that one of the GA's gave at semi-annual Conference after the Choir sang--he said something to the effect of "even the rocks sing praises to God"...because they are His creation of course. I bought everything I heard lock, stock and barrel, too...way back when...Never again. Your mother sounds cute. In His Grace, miki | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 588 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.25 |
miki, do your mormon friends get excited over 'UFO sightings'? Mormonism just has no idea how many 'pandora's boxes' they have opened. Now they have to spend a lot of time and money on PR. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 123 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.147.4.106 |
Only my friend Landon get all riled up when this sort of thing is publicised. The man is a doctor, for crying out loud, and he spent *weeks* frantically preparing his family for the Second Coming when military units in Mexico reported that huge display of UFOs this last year. I have another friend--one of the original sister missionaries who taught me--who thinks that UFOs are familiar spirits sent to wreak havoc on humanity. But my housemate (the former JW) used to think the same thing as a result of Watchtower propaganda, which makes me wonder where Robyn came up with her thinking. The LDS have never promoted the latter thinking, but they do extrapolate a great deal to support their claims. The day an elder missionary, all of 20 years old, sat in my living room showing me a word picture of "a space craft" to "prove" how Jesus "flew" from Israel to Bountiful to preach the Gospel to the Indians I made my tongue bleed biting on it. I sometimes wonder how our minds salve the unreasonable to make it fit in our heads... In His Grace, miki | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 598 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.41 |
The idea your elderly missionary and the 'space craft' is what I was referring to. So now I know I am NOT the only one who has heard this kind of thing from mormons. But then, why shouldn't they. If God and Christ have bodies of flesh and bone, they have to get around somehow. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 599 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.41 |
Is Thomas still in touch? Hope things aren't too difficult for him. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 129 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.132.202.218 |
No, Vivian, you're not the only one who's heard this--and you're not nuts if you can't remember where you heard it, either. It seems to be one of those back-burner dogmas that hasn't completed germinating quite yet. The day this kid missionary sat on the sofa reading Old Testament passages (it was Ezekiel, if I remember correctly) and telling me this tall tale, I nearly had an aneurism trying not to burst into raucous laughter and tears... I've heard the same thing on several occasions since and have read allusions to the same in Ensign and FARMS articles in relation to how Earth was first inhabited. What I've always wondered is if the Mormon God is GOD, as Mormon GAs claim, then why does He need all of this man-made technology to get around His own universe??? Thomas hasn't written back since the last time I posted about it here. I suppose he's gone through alot the past couple weeks--it's a mess to get dumped on you when you're well schooled in Mormon theology, so I can't fault his reaction. I do wish I'd paid closer attention to the tenor of his appeals to talk to me privately, though. I didn't realise he was trying to mask his growing panic. I told him in my last email that many people are praying for him and his daughter. I decided that the best course of action will be to just continue praying and drop him a short note every couple of weeks to let him know that we're all still here for him. Whatever he decides, the ball needs to be in his court. But how I hope this experience has a lasting impact on him and brings him to Jesus! In His Grace, miki | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 231 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Miki,Viv, Sent you guys an e-mail of some mormon tract/ phamplets that I have. Also sent them to Cjv. If any one has nulla's email forward them on to her, especially the one about Archaeology. I think that one is great because of the mis-information it presents. Joesdad might even get a kick out of that one. I like the heading on the tract that says most Aechaeoligist Agree, & then it never states who these Archaeologist are. Now we know that there are no archaeologist who agree that the BOM has any validity when it comes to the ancient Americas. Ask B.H. Roberts. Smile. Steel Jude 3 | ||
| david777 (david777) Intermediate Member Username: david777 Post Number: 447 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.65.196.120 |
Posted by Thomas: (3 Nephi 11:29) "Verily, verily i say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another." Now, I am use to see people quote straight from the bible, but having now people quote from the book of mormon is plain useless. Why? Because so is the book. This book has already been disproven and found to be what we already knew to be "A FAKE". If anyone is interested to see the video of DNA vs The book of mormon, you could watch it at the link below: http://www.myfaith.com/Mormon-Video.htm | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 602 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.48.128 |
Steel, I appreciate what you did, but I didn't receive it. Would you please send it again? Thanks. David, Odd isn't it, how mormons keep trying to use their fake books to prove their points. I understand those who were born into the lds, because they have always thought the bom is God's word, and the Bible is just there to confirm the things they want the bom to. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 234 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Gc , i tried again from my work email, It is a large file , hopefully you get this time. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 603 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.48.72 |
Steel, I got them and want you to know I appreciate it. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 236 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Great Gc, can you beleive they used to hand out the Archaeology tract ,in which it said "most Archaeoligist Agree" Maybe in the 50's and 60's Most Mormon archaeologist agreed, But even some of them have since realized the fact that the BOM and archaeology don't add up. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 604 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.108 |
Has Hinckley given one new revelation in the years he has been 'prophet'? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 184 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.0.155.232 |
The following is a comment by Hinckley on whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man. "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it ... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it." Nulla | ||
| david777 (david777) Intermediate Member Username: david777 Post Number: 448 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.65.196.120 |
Here are some links with interesting video clips concerning mormonism: http://www.watchman.org/jkw/lostbookofabraham/videoclips.htm http://www.johnankerberg.com/TV/ankjasrm-mormons-wmv.html http://www.concernedchristians.org/multimedia.php |
