| Author | Message | ||
     doncameron (doncameron) New member Username: doncameron Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.222.248.59 |
Hello, I'm just letting the world know about the new book “Captives of a Concept (Anatomy of an Illusion).” It is designed to help the reader understand the illusionary concept that holds millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses captive by molding their thinking and actions without them realizing it. One reader’s comments… “After reading ‘Crisis of Conscience’ and ‘In Search of Christian Freedom’ by Ray Franz, ‘Apocalypse Delayed’ by James Penton, and ‘Three Dissertations’ by Greg Stanford, the expose was comprehensive. They are excellent books, particularly for those who want all the facts and are interested in detail. I am grateful to these brothers.” “However some people do not like reading. ‘Captives of a Concept’ is a focused approach that concentrates on the Watchtower teaching of ‘the Faithful and Discreet Slave,’ the doctrine upon which all others rests, and very logically and ‘simply pulverizes it. Down comes the whole structure.” “Although my wife and I gained our freedom in Christ before, Don's book has made us even more appreciative of our newfound liberty.” [Michael] See book review on Amazon.com at… http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411622103/qid=1123090870/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_ur_2_1/002-3849856-6636821 Don Cameron at www.CaptivesOfaConcept.com | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.166.7.218 |
Don, who do I need to contact regarding a galley or a review copy? | ||
| doncameron (doncameron) New member Username: doncameron Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.222.244.101 |
Hi pointlessshrew, I need your e-mail address so I can upload "Captives of a Concept" to www.yousendit.com. You will then receive an e-mail from that website where you can then download the book. Sorry I'm so late in respoding to you request for a review copy of the book. Don at camryn@bluefrog.com | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Bravo! I guess you made some sort of a point, just not sure which one point you made, as from your statement, one can draw many conclusions, or illusions, though I will give you one here below! I can tell you that if Judas Iscariot would have authored (before killing himself) a book or treatise proving that Jesus was not the Messiah; all of the Religious Leaders--Jew's would have bought it and said; 'You see, he is not the Messiah as one of his own exposes him.' However, I can also tell you that none of the Apostles would have bought it nor anyone one faithful! Sir, one will believe what one wants to believe! Ultimately what ever faith proves to be true in the end, one thing is absolutely certain; they would be an unpopular faith or way of life, and not approved by the world in general! Perhaps you alone have the truth!!! Mistakes mean you are human, as I have yet to see a scripture that makes mandatory perfection in all things before God’s time!!! Tell us oh wise one as you must be “The One!” Give me a break! I feel sorry for the idiots that buy your BS, and for those who don’t, Good For You!!! No reply necessary, as it is a rhetorical reply after all!!! Bye Bye!!! | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
1st of all, Don is not claiming to be the Messiah. Those words came from your mouth, not his. Mistakes do indeed mean you are human. Its many mistakes prove that the WT is indeed a human organization, far from being led by an infallible God as it claims. | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Mr. Rebel8: I trust you have a command of the English language and understood what I said, as I did not call Don or anyone the Messiah, I spoke directly to a circumstance of the Messiah! Please use your foolish reasoning with grade school kids who are just learning to read! Now, you obviously missed the point of what I state above, and since I did not use any fanciful or complex jargon, you might want or need to read it again! You are very misinformed about the God of the Bible. Prophets, and Kings of God were allowed to be human, meaning make mistakes, but that did not mean they were not from God! Moses was not allowed to enter into the Promised Land, and using your logic, since he made many mistakes and one so serious he could not go into the Promised Land, he was obviously not from nor used by God! What a thought---but lacks substance biblically speaking!!! Get over it!!!! Whoever has the truth (if such an animal exists) will always have soothsayers saying different because Satan exists, and until he is gone, people (not saying you are) will always be mislead by him, but popular they will not nor ever be!!! So establishes the Holy Scriptures. Thus Don, (and I know some real Don’s-but they don’t BS anybody, they do what they have to do!!!) has advertised his book here on this forum. You know Elders are people too, (like the men and women of old) some dumb, some bright but people none the less----HUMAN PEOPLE. Bravo!!!! The Satanic (as Satan is a Rebel himself) Bible advertises too!!! Perhaps you should pick up a copy!!! Praetorian/Montana | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.92.71 |
Praetorian...Whew, for a minute I thought you meant that as a Christian I could not make mistakes, cause baby that ship has sailed. I also know of God and his ways of dealing with those who do not do his will. He has corrected me when I step off the road, and I am thankful for it. You are wise to keep your eye on that deciever for he will drag most down in the end. Again I will say that there is no church from which God will not take his people from. Many JWs are saved and many are lost just as in all other churchs. Just like mistakes, all churchs have many but they still do their best to love God. I think if Judas wrote a book it would be to warn us of the wiles of the devil. He killed himself when he realized what he had done. May God save his soul. So nice to see you again my brother in Christ. | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
Praetorian, the real question is why you are calling yourself a Christian and yet flinging insults. That is not Christian behavior at all. If your views were correct, you wouldn't need to defend your views by insulting others. Rudeness is a personality defect. | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Rebel8: You poor soul you....You are confusing firm conviction with rudeness. Christians can be firm and strong without being insulting...Perhaps you used the wrong inflection in your voice when reading my post, which remains the same, and makes the point it was intended to make. There is a lot of misinformation out there, and many disgruntled people, (in many walks of life) but, again, I do not want the point of the post to be lost, as people, not you of course, use tactics like these to make one leave the subject matter and go on to the next, kinda like circular psychology. If you were personally offended, please accept my apology for the offense, but I do not apologize for the analogy used nor the main point the post was intended to make. Montana | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
Social etiquette and good manners do not allow you to mock/insult others, place negative labels upon them, or use sarcasm. Thank you for the apology. It is unfortunate you chose to pepper it with blaming me for being offended. This has nothing to do with me; it is about you and your lack of politeness. Here are some examples of your violation of etiquette in this thread: “Tell us oh wise one as you must be ‘The One!’ ” ”Give me a break! I feel sorry for the idiots that buy your BS…” “use your foolish reasoning with grade school kids who are just learning to read…” http://www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/civilcom.htm http://www.peace.ca/kindergarten.htm | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Sadly, your reply and my exchange, which I did more for fun (that of our exchanges) detracts from the points made. Consider myself corrected and again please accept my apology for the same. Your points have been well taken from which I have learned. Sincerely, Montana | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
Thank you. | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Your Welcome Sir! | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
BTW I'm female.  | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Sorry, I had no indication of gender! All the more reason for my apology!FYI. I am a male! | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.248.1 |
one of the tricks of the gov body of jws is to claim that as "imperfect men" they are prone to making a few mistakes, yet at the same time we must follow their leadership since they are appointed by god. the problem is, yes, they are prone to making mistakes, but god never did appoint them to be his organization at any time........ they are just "self-appointed wicked men". in the bible, those who "self-appointed themselves" to be priests and kings, were not looked upon with favor from god. jesus also warned about them in matt 24;24 and 2 thess 2;2. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 196 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: What you claim is a trick about a person stating a sad fact of reality, that they are “imperfect men” is all anyone can do including you! Again, please reason on this; a group or people who sincerely feel that God is using them, will operate and or manage what is before them, as in this case, a religion or system of worship, to the best of their “imperfect” ability! God has set a time (and I think we can agree on this, hopefully) for the redemption of mankind, to perfection, whether by life in heaven or life on earth, for the future. All God can do today, after Jesus time on earth is work with what He has available, imperfect fallible, dysfunctional humans! I submit to you that having the “truth” or being God’s people does not alter that in the world we live in. I agree with what you use as a reference regarding appointments, and in the Bible especially during the time of the Prophets, appointments were divinely made, direct by God. That stopped in Jesus day and the Apostles appointed men, in line with scriptural qualifications, not by divine direct appointment by God, thus one cannot reasonably expect that to occur today. I am aware that you feel that Matthew 24:24, and 2 Thessalonians 2:2 applies to the JW, and many feel that it does not! I guess time will tell!!! P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.30.197 |
no preatorian, false prophets were never approved by jesus nor the scriptures. yes, the trick you are working is to "highlight" that jws are imperfect........ well, so is everyone else!....... but to claim to be "god's organization" appointed by a "fake coming of jesus" carries the death penalty in the bible. most christians don't claim to be "god's only mouthpiece on earth" while they condemn all who disagree...... neither do most christans claim jesus already arrived and appointed them to rule invisibly, so you must go with them or die. so, no it is not a matter of opinion..... the scriptures are clear. jesus warned about such wicked imposters, and so did the apostle paul in 2 thess 2;2. they would come along, and claim the day of jehovah is here, along with a fake coming of jesus or something. such wickedness is not an option for christians like you are suggesting. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 206 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: They feel they were and are; in their opinion which is as good as yours! It is interesting to note that what you state, “Most Christians don’t claim to be god’s only mouthpiece on earth” and you are correct! Does the fact that “most” Christians do not do this surprise you? According to the scriptures Jesus tells you how to “recognize” those that do! But you know this already, don’t you! Yes, Christians that practice the religion of the Bible know that “MOST” who claim to be Christian are not approved by God, (Matthew 7: 13, 14 and 21-23 and if not what does this mean to you?) Obviously scripturally, nor is the Christianity of the Bible popular, and well liked, but in fact hated and you help prove that real well!!! Look dude, go to a library or a good book store and look up Matthew 24:3, in a Greek Manuscript (any of them) and you will see factually speaking that the word “coming” is not in the Greek at all, but is mistranslated for a word that in ALL GREEK Manuscripts in English is Presence!!! This fact alone changes the beliefs of many people!!! You can argue and disagree all you like but this is a CLEAR FACT easily proven wrong if what I state here is not so!!!! Go, fetch and see!!! They “FEEL” as strongly as you do that the scriptures support their view making it an opinion and to state your position is a fact is sheer ignorance! It is also extreme hubris for you to feel that your opinion is above any else’s!!! Well I guess you will have to wait and see as to the outcome now won’t ya, but not to worry, as your brand of Hateful Christianity will most certainly please “god” and prove you are one of “his” children oops I meant seed! P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.45 |
the wicked gov body of jws fulfill the scriptures of matt 24;24, as they dreamed up a fake coming of jesus in 1874, ooops, as they condemn all christians as satanic who disagree with their wicked numerology that appointed them to rule. then praetorian says ... they are entiteled to their opinon, and it is all ok with god and so they are god's appointed organization. can you tell he is a jw? | ||
| mariabee New member Username: mariabee Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.85.244.43 |
I'm curious about why praetorian is here . . . | ||
| junefever New member Username: junefever Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.172.116.155 |
"Look dude, go to a library or a good book store and look up Matthew 24:3, in a Greek Manuscript (any of them) and you will see factually speaking that the word “coming” is not in the Greek at all, but is mistranslated for a word that in ALL GREEK Manuscripts in English is Presence!!!" Whew, that's a disjointed "definition." So you're saying that there's no word for "coming" in Greek? Please clarify if that is your argument. If so, there's no way to express in Greek that someone is coming to your house for dinner? No way to say the soliders are coming home from war? Regardless, the definition of parosia, as I indicated before, is more like coming, and being alongside. Even if JWs try to wheedle their way out of a false prophesy by suggesting that Jesus took "presence" up in heaven on 1914, there's absolutely no support for the implied definition of paraousia as being "invisble presence." That's a perfect example of how JWs reading into the scripture something that just isn't there. To suggest it's an "invisble presence" is laughable. The context of the scriputure (KJV) is: " 1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." I wonder if verse 5 was really mistranslated. Perhaps it should read: "For many shall be invisibly present in my name, saying, I am the Christ." Clearly, anyone can see how ridiculous and non-biblical JWs attempt to cover up there false prophesy is. Sure sounds like they deceived many. | ||
| inkorrekt Intermediate Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 165 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 71.237.125.180 |
Another exhaustive book describing the dangers of naive involvement in the subtle "BIBLE STUDIES at Home" by the JW wolves in sheep's clothes posing as Christians is available at the Factnet website. The title is "OUT OF THE CUCKOON".This is written by an EX JW. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 269 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Mariabee: I have my reasons; however I like to mess with people's heads! I have made a contribution to support this site, I wonder if the same can be said about some of the ones that are attacking me. Thank you Moderator. P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 270 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Junefever: First, this is not the string I posted this under and second, no, that is not what I expressed, I was specifically referring to the scriptures that use coming in reference to Jesus Coming, as in Matthew 24:3, as the word for coming is something like erkomenon (best recollection, but I will check and get back to you). Too bad you don’t like my recollection for the definition; if you like I can check with a lexicon and get back to you! They believe they have support for this! Ok, and you don’t agree! First since you like to quote old English you should try speaking and writing in it all the time! It truly fits you!!! Duh!!! The verse 3 above that uses “Coming” is simple not correct! No, silly, tricks are for kids; now I know you may have trouble with this, but…..there is no word “coming” in verse 5. Also the text applies to your beliefs as well as JW’s. Don’t worry, be happy! If they are doing what you express they doing they will get theirs and if not, and you are doing that, you will get yours too…Good and Plenty!!!! P | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 124 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.58 |
a jw leadership tactic is to mess with peoples heads. they don't follow truth, they follow leadership of false prophets who claim to be ''god's mouthpiece on earth'', the ''two prophets of rev 11''. jw red rev book pages 166 or so. and to help the scam, they lie about it all, whenever questioned about it by someone who knows their doctrines. | ||
| inkorrekt Intermediate Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 71.237.125.180 |
There is another book,"OUT OF THE CUCKKOON". This is an Expose of what goes on within JW. The author is an EX-JW. |
