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curiouscurious (curiouscurious)
New member
Username: curiouscurious
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 62.254.128.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 1:27 pm: | 
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I'm interested in reasons given for disfellowshipping people from the Watchtower Society... I've heard that in the past members have been disfellowshipped for reading books by ex-members, eating with suspected dissenters and wearing pantsuits. Can anyone confirm the truth of these?
Thanks!
(Message edited by curiouscurious on October 05, 2005) |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
New member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 64.33.181.73
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 4:54 pm: |
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The reasons you state are, in fact, true. When my best friend was a Witness, she was counselled and threatened with a judicial committee hearing for reading a book that was an apologetic published by a faithful JW because it was not published by the Society! (She didn't tell me until I heard it from someone else in her congregation because she knew I'd be furious--I hated the way she was being treated in the first place...)
Others include, but are not limited to, recieving or being complicit in a blood transfusion for yourself or someone else, celebrating someone's birthday, dating a non-JW and/or marrying them (I've seen this twice), accepting apostate/opposer literature from anyone, joining the military, joining the police force, going against the express counsel of an elder (regardless of the reason), attending church with a non-JW, etc...
I actually have a list of over two hundred known reasons a person may be/has been disfellowshipped.
It is interesting to note, too, that I have photostats of letters from the Watchtower Society addressed to presiding and district overseers around the world (Some of these kind of letters can be seen in Raymond Franz's book "Crisis of Conscience")enjoining them not to turn Witnesses in or disfellowship them for crimes that occurred *before* they were baptised into the "Truth". This includes instances when the criminal is being actively sought for prosecution or to serve out a pending sentence--everything from child abuse, rape, theft, murder and back again.
Contrary to being counselled to uphold the law, these "elders" or ordered by the Governing Body at Bethel to aid and abeit fugatives from the law if they are allegedly repentant and currently living "in the truth".
Ain't it nice???
In His Grace, miki |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
New member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 64.33.181.73
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 5:01 pm: |
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Oh, I almost forgot--I know a man, in my area, who was disfellowshipped because he refused to cut his hair so that it didn't touch his collar (he had sideburns, as well) and because he ignored counsel to wear a suit to KH meetings.
Every time I show up at the local Kingdom Halls, I make sure I always wear sweats, a T-shirt and a pair of flip-flops--it drives 'em all nuts, especially since I treat them all like kings and queens. But since I'm not one of their number, they can't say a word...
In His Grace, miki |
marilyn_m (marilyn_m)
Member
Username: marilyn_m
Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 24.222.57.138
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 6:29 pm: |
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curiouscurious, when I was a jw ,the elders sent a sister to talk to me about wearing dress pants out in service ( that was before I was baptized)
You are not allowed to go door to door in pants (no matter how cold it is)you are allowed to wear cable stockings. When I started wearing skirts they sent the sister back to tell me that I had to sew up the slits in the sides because some of the other sisters were upset at their husbands looking at my legs.My skirts were always long & the slits were just enough so I could take steps in it,after I sewed them up I was forever tearing them out every time I had to jump over a mud puddle.
jw's are not allowed to associate with any one that has been disfellowshipped or has disassociated themself.Hope this has been of some help to you. |
rebel8 (rebel8)
New member
Username: rebel8
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 24.58.75.167
| | Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 8:26 pm: |
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go to www.watchtower.observer.org
Click on secret books, then Pay Attention book
that is the secret manual listing all the reasons for disfellowshipping |
rumoret (rumoret)
New member
Username: rumoret
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 69.225.236.108
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 3:33 pm: |
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My two aunts would not even go to my dad's memorial service after he passed away. My mom's two sisters and one brother are Jehovah Witnesses. Why did they not attend.....because the Youth Minister who conducted my Dad's memorial was not a Jehovah Witness. In fact he did not attend any particular church since his youth. My aunts loved my Dad very much.....but they still did not attend. This Youth Minister conducted this memorial because he was a Christian....and that was the correct thing Jesus would have wanted done. My dad was baptized as a youth.....he was saved. But to a JW.....he was not considered one of them.....so no respect was due. The two aunts did come to my mother's house afterwards. What a discusting religion!
Now....when my mother passes away....you watch these two sisters not attend their own sister's funeral.......so blind.....they can't see the false religion they belong to....and the wolf in sheeps clothing that they loved to preach to all of us about! |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Intermediate Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 101
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.170.232.162
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:26 pm: |
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It's not because they don't want to attend, rumoret--they couldn't. Their fear of being expulsed from "God's organisation" over-rides their love for family. This is part of cult mentality.
In the eyes of the Watchtower, your father will not have eternal life--but will be annihilated because he "rejected Jehovah's true organisation on earth". This is what your aunts have been taught to believe, and regardless of the truth, this is what they think is real.
Even though your dad was born again, the Watchtower had taught your aunts that he has rejected GOD. They are victims of victims--it's really not their fault.
You also might want to know that the idea of death in the Watchtower Society is kinked, as well. When I've met with older JW's who have lost a spouse, they don't say the spouse has died, but that they are "no longer alive". The concept of being alive in Christ is lost on JW's--they don't believe they are going to heaven, and they believe that when breath ceases, the soul ceases to exist.
As far as your aunts are concerned you dad no longer exists, period. They are taught that grieving for the dead is useless.
They are also taught that the only people who will be resurrected after Armageddon will be those who either did not have the opportunity to hear the Watchtower message and accept it, or those who heard it but didn't understand it. (My housemate made me tell you this so that there are no misunderstandings...)
Don't be too hard on them if you can help it--they really are trying to be faithful to GOD. That doesn't negate the fact that they need help.
In His Grace, miki
(Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 08, 2005) |
evident (evident)
New member
Username: evident
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 12.207.51.42
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 7:03 pm: |
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Jehovah's Witnesses—Judicial Committees
A blog I found very informative about the approach and mechanics of Jehovah's Witnesses Judicial Committees.
Evident |
dondi (dondi)
Junior Member
Username: dondi
Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.135.182.39
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:17 pm: |
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THAT Armageddon and Christ's second coming were foretold to happen in 1874, 1914, 1925 and 1975 by this "non-prophet" organization. |
dondi (dondi)
Junior Member
Username: dondi
Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.135.182.39
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:19 pm: |
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THAT when Christ failed to show up in 1914 The Society claimed in later years that He had come invisibly--of course, and all Jehovah's Witnesses believe this today. |
dondi (dondi)
Junior Member
Username: dondi
Post Number: 42
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.135.182.39
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:22 pm: |
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THAT Jehovah God is not omnipresent, but still Almighty. Think! How can this be? |
evident (evident)
New member
Username: evident
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 12.207.51.42
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:41 pm: |
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Okaaayyyy...dondi, what does that have to do with disfellowshipping? |
luvliberty (luvliberty)
Intermediate Member
Username: luvliberty
Post Number: 298
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 192.173.35.174
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 8:20 am: |
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the elders hand book lists reasons for disfellowshipping however the truth is the elders on the committee can choose to disfellowship on grounds of such things as "attitude" not in line with a worshipper of jehovah or that person exerts an "influence" on others in the congregation that is not in character with the teachings of the organization. It is basically up to the elders in the committee- which is usually 3 as to whether a person will be disfellowshipped or not. this is just another way for the org. to exert power over those in the congregation. |
kcassity
New member
Username: kcassity
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 71.14.79.2
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 1:20 pm: |
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you cannot be disfellowhipped for not cutting your hair. You cannot be disfellowshipped for reading any books. Slacks have been worn in congregations since as far back as the 70's. Yes you can wear slacks to go door-to-door. My gosh there is SO much mis-info out there. They do not believe that not believers will NOT be resurrected to eternal life here on Earth. Only people who are judged by GOD not to be worthy-i.e.: unrepenting.murders,etc.By the way, receiving a blood transfusion can be quite dangerous. Remember Elizabeth Glaser??!! She received a blood trans. and contracted AIDS. As did her children. She and one of the kids has since died. HIV some times cannot be detected in the blood for MONTHS! There is no way that donated blood can be checked for MONTHS before being used to make sure that it is okay. There are also many things that can be used in place of blood, since it is only blood VOLUME that needs to be replaced, initially. |
strongapostle
New member
Username: strongapostle
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 216.93.198.222
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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I am ex JH and I know one thing that has stuck with me was Blood thingy, man, I hate needles! But besides that, I still Pray for my witness to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. " No Man Shall see the Kingdom of Heaven unless he is Baptized by Water and the Spirit......." |
pointlessshrew
Intermediate Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 126
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 208.157.173.138
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 11:52 pm: |
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KCassity:
I worked in nursing for 15 years and I hate to break it to you but your understanding of maintaining homeostasis via blood volume is wrong--as is the WTS's pseudo-science, and their doctrine.
And, yes, you can be disfellowshipped for not cutting your hair, I've seen it done.
The Watchtower Society *does* teach that "apostates and opposers will be annihilated by [GOD] and will not be resurrected..."
And, I can send you photocopies on any subject that you think we're wrong about--from the WTS's own literature and court records. Including, "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock" which Liberty mentioned--it proves that your beloved organisation abuses people just for being human.
In His Grace,
miki |
bear
Intermediate Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 460
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.247.112.45
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 11:42 pm: |
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KCassity said:
"My gosh there is SO much mis-info out there."
Well, those of us who lived it are informed! The information shortage is among JW's; that is a fact.
Pointlessshrew is one among many of us who can document truth to show the organization to be false. The problem is with JW's; they consider it apostate information. If you believe that you have the truth, why are you afraid to be confronted with evidence which points to flaws, inconsistencies and flip-flop theology?
Try questioning a WT docctrine, proven wrong through your personal study with non-WT study materials. Materials that are unbiased, rather legitamate, reputable materials. What do you think will Happen? Well...
You have the truth, correct?
There is true Christianity outside of the WTBTS.
Also, When the Hebrew Scriptures speaks about abstaining from blood, you need to look at the context. It is always refering to ingestion as it pertains to false religious practices.
Jews, through history, have never had a problem with receiving blood to save a life. We should not either. |
ezekiel_37
Senior Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 1109
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 24.43.16.51
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 1:52 pm: |
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the whole blood issue is for eating meats, for there was a lack of refrigeration in the old days.
There was no such thing as transfusions then, so any JW that allows a child to be killed by not allowing for surgery, is not a true child of God spiritually, for they have mis interpreted scripture that leads to death.
I have seen this happen in Canada, in Toronto, and it is a shame that a child had to die because of the warped view of a JW teaching.
Didn't God create the doctors and nurses anyway? |
marilyn_m
Intermediate Member
Username: marilyn_m
Post Number: 126
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 142.177.79.112
| | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
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kcassity, When I was studying with jw's an elder's wife was sent to tell me that the district overseer had noticed that I was wearing slacks & that I was no longer permitted to accompany them in the field service unless I dressed as the other women.that was in 1987 |
rebel8
Junior Member
Username: rebel8
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 24.58.75.167
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 7:32 am: |
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kcassity:
"My gosh there is SO much mis-info out there."
Well since you made that statement, your statements are fair game to test their truthfulness. I am wondering what your motive is to give out false info??
"you cannot be disfellowhipped for not cutting your hair. You cannot be disfellowshipped for reading any books."
You can be dfd for pretty much anything they deem to be stumbling others, which can be anything.
"Slacks have been worn in congregations since as far back as the 70's. Yes you can wear slacks to go door-to-door."
That is completely untrue for women. It is possible you attend some sort of abberant kh that doesn't follow the rules, but it is a rule, and if you're a real jw, you know that.
"They do not believe that not believers will NOT be resurrected to eternal life here on Earth. Only people who are judged by GOD not to be worthy-i.e.: unrepenting.murders,etc."
Oh rly? Just one example of many quotes from wts literature disproves you: '“Only Jehovah's Witnesses…have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.”—Watchtower, 9/1/1989
"By the way, receiving a blood transfusion can be quite dangerous."
No one is claiming that it can't be dangerous sometimes, so there's no need to keep harping on that point. The medical info has nothing at all to do with the reasons for the jw beliefs. It is their interpretation of scripture, not modern day medical facts, that caused them to form their belief.
The wts rules about blood are completely insane from both a scriptural and scientific viewpoint.
Scriptural: Rule says blood must be poured out on the ground once it leaves the body. Storing blood is against the rules. Yet using blood fractions is ok. Allrightythen, how in the world do you manufacture a blood fraction without storing it? You can't.
Scientific: Many claims made in wts literature about the use of blood products are lies, misquotes, and exaggerations. See Kerry Louderback-Wood's article in the Journal of Church and State, Fall 2005 edition. |
rebel8
Junior Member
Username: rebel8
Post Number: 35
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 24.58.75.167
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 7:42 am: |
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kcassity:
"My gosh there is SO much mis-info out there."
Well since you made that statement, your statements are fair game to test their truthfulness. I am wondering what your motive is to give out false info??
"you cannot be disfellowhipped for not cutting your hair. You cannot be disfellowshipped for reading any books."
You can be dfd for pretty much anything they deem to be stumbling others, which can be anything.
"Slacks have been worn in congregations since as far back as the 70's. Yes you can wear slacks to go door-to-door."
That is completely untrue for women. It is possible you attend some sort of abberant kh that doesn't follow the rules, but it is a rule, and if you're a real jw, you know that.
"They do not believe that not believers will NOT be resurrected to eternal life here on Earth. Only people who are judged by GOD not to be worthy-i.e.: unrepenting.murders,etc."
Oh rly? Just one example of many quotes from wts literature disproves you: '“Only Jehovah's Witnesses…have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.”—Watchtower, 9/1/1989
"By the way, receiving a blood transfusion can be quite dangerous."
No one is claiming that it can't be dangerous sometimes, so there's no need to keep harping on that point. The medical info has nothing at all to do with the reasons for the jw beliefs. It is their interpretation of scripture, not modern day medical facts, that caused them to form their belief.
The wts rules about blood are completely insane from both a scriptural and scientific viewpoint.
Scriptural: Rule says blood must be poured out on the ground once it leaves the body. Storing blood is against the rules. Yet using blood fractions is ok. Allrightythen, how in the world do you manufacture a blood fraction without storing it? You can't.
Scientific: Many claims made in wts literature about the use of blood products are lies, misquotes, and exaggerations. See Kerry Louderback-Wood's article in the Journal of Church and State, Fall 2005 edition. |
exjws
New member
Username: exjws
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 64.74.163.178
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 6:53 pm: |
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Jw’s are the most self-righteous hypocrites since the Sanhedrin of Jesus time
I had the misfortune of being a jw’s an I saw a lot of sick stuff people getting DF for stupid little reasons, but not DF a friend of the elders who was caught molesting children.
If someone wanted to get even with one of there own they would spread malicious rumors, that is worst then being DF because there is no was to debunk the rumors, and
most of the jw’s are to simple minded to even question the one spreading the rumors.
The jw’s are to brainwash to think for them selves so they except everything told to them more so if this rumor spreader had clout in the KH |
bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 637
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.176.43.144
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 9:04 pm: |
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How long were you a JW, and during which years? |
exjws
New member
Username: exjws
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 64.74.163.178
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:41 pm: |
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about 2 years from 86-88 I was very young at the time. |
eldersson
New member
Username: eldersson
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.134.66.219
| | Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 7:04 pm: |
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I myself am not a Jehovah's Witness, but i recently divorced form a witness. From my experience, for being so haughty and carrying themselves as so righteous, the Jehovah's Witnesses are the most scandalous group of individuals I have ever encountered.
Firstly, i believe the sexual tension and aggression that exists from years of being taught to completely suppress those feelings makes for some might randy individuals. The sexual misconduct that happened amongst my ex-wife and her 5 sisters rivaled any Nevada cathouse. The poor girls in her congregation were so mis-lead about men and relationships, they allowed thwemselves to enter abusive and perverted relationships. I also heard stories from all the girls of molestaion and abuse form older church members.
A cult is a cult people. And for the record, some of the stuff my ex wanted me to do, both sexually and relationship wise, would make Ray Charles flinch. Scandalous, I tell you. |
mrjamesreed
New member
Username: mrjamesreed
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 69.250.212.55
| | Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 1:02 pm: |
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As a child, I was raised in the JW faith. It was a great disappointment to my parents when I chose not to pursue this faith expression as an adult. Nevertheless, I still see witnesses at funerals, hospitals, etc, and have worked with several over the years. The witnesses I remember growing up were dedicated, sincere, humble people who aspired to serve God fully. Admittedly, some recent experiences with individual witnesses has disappointed and surprised me. But, all in all I find them to be good Christian people. And even though I walked away, none of the witnesses I knew as a child shun me or disrespect me in any way. To the contrary, they are always warm and friendly.
The flaw of JWs is the same as all peoples, be they christian or non. That is, we are all human, all imperfect. I know people from all walks of life. We all have weaknesses. Some are addicted to alcohol, tobacco, gambling, lust, greed, and other vices or character weaknesses. Religious organizations are flawed because their members and rule makers are humans, and therefore, flawed. What religious group can we not find fault with?
The biggest problem I have with religious groups, their members, and their leaders is that they believe that theirs is the "true" or "right"
religion. My wife is a Roman Catholic. She believes that her Church is the one founded by Jesus and that Peter was the first Pope. She has no time to listen to or attempt to understand anyone else's beliefs. She admits her great disappointment in not getting me to convert during the 32 years of our marriage. I have expressed my personal discomfort with the teachings of the Church, but I do not try to convert her or convince her that my beliefs are the ones she should accept. Our children have been raised as Catholics; one is still a practicing member, two have no faith. I never tried to influence them not to be part of the Catholic faith. I tried to let my conduct as a Christian husband and father speak for me. Of course, I have my weaknesses and these they witnessed, too. While I would have preferred to see them raised in a fundamentalist expression of faith, I believe the most important thing is that they love God, the Father, with their whole hearts, mind, and body, and believe upon his son, Jesus, so that they may have eternal life. I walk freely amongst our Catholic friends and invite their clergy into our home. Interestingly, the daughter who remains a Catholic told the priest who presided at her wedding (a family friend)that her mother raised her to be a Catholic: her father raised her to be a Christian. To this day, when she is confronted with an issue of ethics or morality, it's her father she calls. No brag, just fact.
Since the beginning of time, man has fought wars real and ideological in the name of God. And nothing has been resolved. We are likely closer to world calamity today than ever. Muslims hate Christians: Christians fear Muslims: all believe in God and believe he is on their side. In John 17:16, Jesus said he was not of this world. Did Jesus:
Ever serve in the Military?
Did he seek political office?
Did he bow down to Kings and political leaders or did he answer to them?
Did he seek personal wealth?
Did he gamble, smoke, get intoxicated, cheat, lie, steal?
No, to all of these. He did say I am the way, the truth, and the life.
Let us not then focus on the imperfections and flaws we see in JWs and other groups, but on our own. Let us strive to follow the teachings of Christ in our personal lives and in our Churches. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. |
bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 651
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 69.51.132.172
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 8:49 pm: |
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mrjamesreed,
A very good post, indeed.
However, to use Jesus as an example to not servein the military or seek political office is a little weak. His purpose was not to do either.
John 17:16 means that he was not a "product" of the sinful world. We are all in the world; we must work, live, etc,within this world, but not become a product of the sin.
JW's isolate themselves from the culture, and thus, they are not that effective.
Please do not misquote Jesus in order to make it fit into your theological box. Wen Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", he was speaking to the religious leaders who had brought the women caught in adultry, and not the man as well, thus they disobeyed the law. They were not moved solely on Jesus making that statement. That also does not mean that we can not judge based on correct information. You see we are judged by the same measure that we judge.
As a new member, it will do you well to realize that this board is designed to be a place of discussion. The point is not to focus on flaws and imperfections, rather the destructive nature of this organization.
Remember, Jesus was not all bubbles and goo. He addressed issues, harshly, when needed. |
jlb
New member
Username: jlb
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 216.193.176.91
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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My biggest problem is with the disassociation the JW's with their family. They never attend our get togethers because that is done on the holiday when most of the family has off from work (including my grandson and his wife)Also no recognition of birthdays. I asked my grandson if he thinks he was born and if on that day he becomes one year older, He says "yes" but by "hiding" the fact doesn't change the fact . So what does this this (non-association) do anything good except keep them away from the family. Is this the intent for JW's?. All the rest of the family is not Jw's |
jeeprube
New member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 10:57 am: |
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You can even be disfellowshipped for exposing wrongdoing within the congregation.
Bill Bowen went on an episode of NBC's Dateline to expose JW pedophiles, and was summarily DFed for it.
What Biblical law did he break? |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 113
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 5:17 pm: |
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I was not privy to the whole story, just his while apparently you are! You can pick and choose sides, but remember, no matter how thin you cut a slice of ham it still has two sides!
P |
crawly
New member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.151
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 12:20 pm: |
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the disfellowshipping process is abused by the jehovah's witness leadership to silence members that would expose them as frauds or otherwise expose a problem in their organization or particular kingdom hall.
for example, if you study jw history and figure out that they have made numerous false prophecys, and denied they ever did that in an extensive cover-up, and you mention it, you will be disfellowshipped for "causing a division".
the local elders then inform the whole congregation to never speak to you again, and even your own family then shuns you........ it is quite effective in controlling the members and silencing them about anything at all that the leadership wants silenced....the way they use it is a cult tactic found in many cults to control members. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 137
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 6:13 pm: |
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Crawly:
If you know anything at all about how the JW’s function, then you know that while it is true that any process in any church can be abused, doing so with veracity, as a practice would mean that all of their members are in cahoots with this abuse, and this is simply not reasonable to assert.
The fact that you can make such a statement is proof that this type of exercise simply does not work, to silence and or keep anything hidden as those affected by it will invariably cry out!
The JW’s have made mistakes as can be stated with any human agency or religion as people are people. The false prophecy’s as you put it, was not nor has it ever been claimed by them to be “inspired prophesy” as from some sort of divine origin; they were predictions based on Bible chronology, right or wrong, the chronology exists; their mistakes have been well documented and admitted to by them, not denied, (no different than with certain Bible characters) as they, nor can anyone else can hide a mistake, as it all comes out in the wash.
Disfellowshipping is in the Bible, let me know if you want me to point out the scriptures to show you! Therefore your issue is with the Bible, not those who try to practice what it teaches; in other words, don’t kill the messenger! When someone is DF’d, people in the congregation do not have spiritual dealings with the person, friend or family, and yet in many cases they have to work with them, or a family has to deal with them, showing that you are not presenting an entire picture.
In the end this practice is Biblical and of course it will have adverse affects, however the Biblical point is to assist the person to Godly repentance. So if this is cultish, then it is this Biblical practice that you call cultish.
P |
crawly
New member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.253.139
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 8:59 pm: |
|
the jw leadership ''abuse'' the shunning process mentioned in the bible like i said in my above post....... yes, the top leadership disfellowship anyone who figures out and questions some of their false prophecy and claims about chronology or other matters that they don't want exposed ....... the congregations of jehovah's witnesses are run in a dictatorship fashion, cult like.
i have no problem with the bible, the problem is with wicked cult leadership like the jw leadership who abuse bible principals.......are you changing the subject pratorian, and accusing me of having a problem with the bible?....... i'm familiar with that tactic.
the jw leadership are very sly, but that is normal for a false prophet organization claiming to be "god's appointed mouthpiece on earth", while at the same time denying they ever made such claims or currently claim it, as they claim it in their publications, but deny it publicly if you ask about it..... matt 24;24 |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 147
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 2:47 pm: |
|
Crawly:
You believe that the JW’s “leadership” as you put it, “abuse” their disfellowshipping process (and it is not the same thing as shunning, but you know this correct?) and you are entitled to your opinion, and yet there are many millions of JW’s who would disagree with you, several of whom have been disfellowshipped themselves and late reinstated!!! No ever seems to quote folks like that! Thus the reason why it is an opinion in the first place!
In the end, anyone who disregards God’s laws, and abuses them will be held accountable, (JW included) so in that you and I can agree and take comfort in! As to your reason about their not wanting something exposed, I already addressed this, that doing so is a •••• poor way to attempt to silence something, (as it has the opposite affect in life) thus your reasoning on this falls flat on it’s face, having no merit, as those who feel this way become like you, using lies, anger and deceit mixed with some truth (as every good lie has some truth in it) to further opinions and agendas.
I now see that you are correctly using the phrase “chronology” rather than “numerology” that is commendable; you are learning new things already!!! See you made a mistake (actually you have made several) but you consider yourself not one discussed in Matthew 24:14. Interesting!!!!
I made various statements, in reply to your comments and angry attacks, and need no such strategy against you boy; my words are there for all to see, and you simply think too much of me or yourself. An answer is an answer, now if you choose to cop out and call it something else like a “tactic”, to attempt to skirt the issue or diminish the reply (this is a clear “tactic” by the way) OK, but it was my reply! My reply is what it is, no more and no less! With that said, I trust you are referring to where in one of my reply posts to you, that I pointed out that the Bible is the origin of disfellowshipping, informing you, that if you had issues with disfellowshipping itself, then you have issues with the Bible on this particular subject matter. No more and no less! What a TACTIC indeed; so I am really glad you are “familiar” with it, as some people refer to that as plain ole, simple “LOGIC.”
Your comments about the JW’s denying something that was in print, is simply a falsity, and a patent lie on your end, no more and no less, and is something not subject to opinion, but fact, so show me the facts, kid, or go peddle your horse manure somewhere else! Matthew 24:24! LOL
P |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 148
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 2:49 pm: |
|
Crawly:
You believe that the JW’s “leadership” as you put it, “abuse” their disfellowshipping process (and it is not the same thing as shunning, but you know this correct?) and you are entitled to your opinion, and yet there are many millions of JW’s who would disagree with you, several of whom have been disfellowshipped themselves and late reinstated!!! No ever seems to quote folks like that! Thus the reason why it is an opinion in the first place!
In the end, anyone who disregards God’s laws, and abuses them will be held accountable, (JW included) so in that you and I can agree and take comfort in! As to your reason about their not wanting something exposed, I already addressed this, that doing so is a •••• poor way to attempt to silence something, (as it has the opposite affect in life) thus your reasoning on this falls flat on it’s face, having no merit, as those who feel this way become like you, using lies, anger and deceit mixed with some truth (as every good lie has some truth in it) to further opinions and agendas.
I now see that you are correctly using the phrase “chronology” rather than “numerology” that is commendable; you are learning new things already!!! See you made a mistake (actually you have made several) but you consider yourself not one discussed in Matthew 24:14. Interesting!!!!
I made various statements, in reply to your comments and angry attacks, and need no such strategy against you boy; my words are there for all to see, and you simply think too much of me or yourself. An answer is an answer, now if you choose to cop out and call it something else like a “tactic”, to attempt to skirt the issue or diminish the reply (this is a clear “tactic” by the way) OK, but it was my reply! My reply is what it is, no more and no less! With that said, I trust you are referring to where in one of my reply posts to you, that I pointed out that the Bible is the origin of disfellowshipping, informing you, that if you had issues with disfellowshipping itself, then you have issues with the Bible on this particular subject matter. No more and no less! What a TACTIC indeed; so I am really glad you are “familiar” with it, as some people refer to that as plain ole, simple “LOGIC.”
Your comments about the JW’s denying something that was in print, is simply a falsity, and a patent lie on your end, no more and no less, and is something not subject to opinion, but fact, so show me the facts, kid, or go peddle your horse manure somewhere else! Matthew 24:24! LOL
P |
crawly
New member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 15
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.30.66
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 3:36 pm: |
|
yup the jw cult leadership claim to be "elders appointed by god"... so you must obey them as they dictate wicked decisions to you.
it is all wicked....... get away from them, matt 24;24 |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 153
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 3:55 pm: |
|
Crawly:
You sound like you have mental issues, the ravings of a lunatic mind. I feel sorry for you!
P
P.S. Remember people can read these posts! |
crawly
New member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 19
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.30.66
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 4:24 pm: |
|
sounds like you are just trying to insult me now, praetorian, the jw leadership claim to be appointed by god in 1878, but they are not appointed by god, they are frauds.
just check out their history of lies on the internet sites about jehovah's witnesses. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 154
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 5:39 pm: |
|
Crawly:
No need to insult you, as you do that all by yourself, all I do is point out the obvious, just by expressing it like I see it, you know a tactic!
You keep changing dates, pal, try and keep it straight for all of your fans here!
“Now” you claim that it was 1878, not 1874, etc. a year before they started to print their journals that this took place. Please be so kind as to get me the actual reference (including the page) to the journal you speak of, since as you know they are date and month specific so that you can “prove” your claims! This will be most helpful! You will end up with the same result as I showed you in your incorrect claim in the, as you put it, Red Revelation Book on page 169 and thereabouts about the “two prophets” which is simply not true!!!
Are you one of those naďve people that believe everything you read? I have seen many occasion w here people have actually re-printed references only to check them against the real McCoy and for what, the people like you, even though you prove the lies over and over again, do not want to hear that, they want to believe the lie, like the ones you have been caught expressing here!
It is what it is!
P |
crawly
New member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.252.235
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 6:53 am: |
|
so, i am a lunatic?....... oh, i didn't know it was ok to call names on this site... but that is normal jw stuff...
yes, the wicked jw leadership claimed for years and years that jesus returned invisibly in 1874 and then appointed their special group in 1878......are you denying that?........ well that is normal too....... jws always deny their past claims.
yes, the red rev book, "rev, it's grand climax at hand" makes some really impressive lies on pages 169 or so, where the jw leadership claims to be the two prophets of rev 11.
it must get really confusing as you explain that you are not prophets, while at the same time claiming to be prophets...... geez, false prophet liars are so sneaky........ good thing jesus warned about them in matt 24;24 |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 218
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:46 pm: |
|
inkorrekt:
Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is!
One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’
Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board.
I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.”
P |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 219
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:47 pm: |
|
Oops, sorry meant for Crawly too. |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 83
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.45
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:54 pm: |
|
beware, everyone..... the jw leadership are very sly.......... they use the shunning process to control members......... independant research is a disfellowshipping offense among jws.
jws are not allowed to research the jw organization on the internet or they will be disfellowshipped.
once they are disfellowshipped, even their own family members must shun them and never speak to them again. |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:20 am: |
|
My parents never shunned me after I disassociated myself ten years ago. But my parents are very special people 
~ Maria Bee
(to read my story see the thread labeled Introduction) |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 229
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 7:20 pm: |
|
Mariabee, your statement goes to show that this practice does necessarily cut family members off, and while your parents are special people and you are fortunate to have them, their are many others among the JW’s, that have hade their family members disfellowshipped and their family did not "shun" or cut them off as this is unnatural.
I submit to you that there are some that are disfellowshipped that do indeed get cut off by their family but that this usually goes deeper than religion, and is often something to do with their own personal problems and decisions.
The example in 1 Corinthians of the person whom Paul referred to when he counseled the congregation to “Remove the Wicked Man” from among them, for having relations with his fathers wife; I am sure their were ill feelings with some family members (and yet maybe some did not) that refused to deal with him, and after he was reinstated in 2 Corinthians, where Paul expressed to lovingly take him back, that others in his family may still have refused to deal with him, right or wrong, Christian or not, because people are still people and may still feel bad over something; and DFing a family members does not ever cut family ties, just spiritual activities with the person!
Some families that are not JW’s choose not to speak with family members for a variety or reasons, some don’t talk politics with family members, this is their choice, however those complaining about this happening to them are only telling One Side of the story!
P |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 90
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.253.69
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 7:31 am: |
|
notice how praetorian-jw refers to expelling a man who was involved in a wicked practice.
yes, that is biblical.
but the jw leadership expel members for questioning their interpretations of the bible, and use the shunning process to control members.
it is their main tool to even keep members in the darkness by forbidding independent research on the internet...... members who do independent research about jehovah'a witnesses on the internet are promptly disfellowshipped when it is discovered by the body of elders. |
junefever
New member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 25
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 8:50 am: |
|
"My parents never shunned me after I disassociated myself ten years ago. But my parents are very special people"
And didn't you say your parents eventually left the JWs? Obviously, they saw that the JWs did not have the truth and were smart enough not to continue to be blinded by the teachings of men, even to the point where these men could make up rules requiring them to shun their own family.
However, the fact that several internet boards have arisen where ex-jws tell virtually the same story over and over: of being shunned by their jw families and friends for any one of a number of infractions, demonstrates that the jws consistently exploit this practice.
Praetorian is being deceitful in suggesting that not all jws will shun family members who willingly dissociate themselves or are disfellowshipped. If they want to maintain their good standing in the congregation, they will. The jw publications clearly indicate the practice is "biblical" and so actively encourage this behavior. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 1:45 pm: |
|
Junefever/Crawly:
Wow, what can I express to such a deranged and hateful response, from my standpoint of course; I feel your anger as much as Crawly's and a few others on this board, and it is sad to say the least that you live that way.
You obviously feel the need to criticize me for no other reason than I do not agree with your views, and point out that others do not as well.
The JW believes that the cure for all of mankind’s ailing problems is direct intervention by God, along with a government by him referred to in the Bible as the Kingdom of God. They believe that nothing else will work, and I trust you “may” be able to agree with this concept; meaning God must fix it or mankind is in the pooper! You will have to forgive my poor “irrational comments” as this is the best that I can do, as research is a good part of my professional life. I am glad I do not have you as a client!!!!
In the end, if they are wrong, they will get theirs and if you and those who think like you are wrong, then so will you! This is as fair a statement as I can come up with given that you feel that I am bent to default to “irrational comments.”
There is not much more to say about this subject matter as I find myself engaged in circular exchanges that are going no where, making this an ineffable subject.
Perhaps instead of attacking me, you should offer from your vast experience and apparent ‘superior’ intellect what the correct solution is for all of mankind’s woes!
I would very much like your response on to this as I and all readers of this post know how you feel about the JW’s and apparently yours truly! Thus all I have to offer is my “two cents.”
P |
junefever
Junior Member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 29
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:41 am: |
|
"The JW believes that the cure for all of mankind’s ailing problems is direct intervention by God, along with a government by him referred to in the Bible as the Kingdom of God. They believe that nothing else will work, and I trust you “may” be able to agree with this concept; meaning God must fix it or mankind is in the pooper! You will have to forgive my poor “irrational comments” as this is the best that I can do, as research is a good part of my professional life. I am glad I do not have you as a client!!!!"
And what does this have to do with the topic of disfellowshipping? You can't address the topic in any credible way, so you change the subject?
As to "hateful" and living in anger, you're projecting. Who do you think has more anger and is socially and emotionally mal-adjusted: the person who totally rejects society and any hope for happiness and goodness in the present world, or someone who realizes life is filled with ups and downs, but ultimately people just want to be happy and pursue their dreams?
Your little picture of the utopia that's always just around the corner illustrates why most JWs are fundamentally mentally unbalanced: they simply cannot accept the world the way it is.
"I would very much like your response on to this as I and all readers of this post know how you feel about the JW’s and apparently yours truly!”"
See how JWs have diffculty separating their beliefs from themselves. They are so firmly entrenched and controlled by the religion that any objective criticism of their belief system is a total affront to themselves personally. That's why it is next to impossible to have a rational discussion with them. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 273
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 71.226.54.24
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 7:48 pm: |
|
Junefever:
I have nothing further to express to you!
Take that anyway you like but please, not before reading between the lines.
P |
crawly
Intermediate Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 121
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.238
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:04 pm: |
|
you see, if you know jw doctrine and know how to talk to a jw, here is what they do, instead of following the truth, they look for someone else to sucker in, and refuse to debate with you.
it is not the mark of christian truth and love.
it is the mark of sly stuff..... like jesus said, snakes, wolves......... matt 24;24 |
junefever
Junior Member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:45 pm: |
|
"Junefever:
I have nothing further to express to you!
Take that anyway you like but please, not before reading between the lines."
Reading between the lines? Not much guesswork there. You can't debate the issues. Your stalwart JWism hasn't prepared you to approach logical opposition to your views. So you personally attack and then bow out.
So sad. What a waste of human potential. |
junefever
Junior Member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:31 am: |
|
BTW, praetorian, I believe it's against the rules to make exactly the same posts on multiple threads. You did this with your post 245; you posted exactly the same thing in the Hypocrisy thread (post 242). I responded to you in that thread.
Many of us understand you use this tactic because you cannot respond logically to the issues and resort back into "cultspeak" when challenged. In this case it's the standard promise of a new system that's going to solve everyone's problems, with those righteous ones who make it through Armageddon gloating over the butt-kicking their enemies receive.
A few days ago I found a pamphlet from the jws at my front door. It read like a child's book as it discussed this perfect new world were everyone's picking fruit and smiling. A little girl is sitting peacefully hugging a lion and a mother and child are feeding a grizzly bear. (One has to wonder what incredible animal over-population would result in messing with the natural predatory food chain...) Funny how when you ask natural questions about this utopia, JWs back into their standard: "Trust in Jehovah." They don't like to get into the details at that point.
Yes, we know the "promise" JWs have been offering everyone for decades--telling them to wait on Jehovah to solve everything. In the meantime, the organization builds buildings and amasses a fortune though the labor and contributions of their followers. Followers who themselves have been told to forego college, careers, sometimes even families, and in some cases their very lives (as in no blood transfusions) as they "wait on Jehovah."
No thanks. I'd sooner deal with reality, not fantasy. |
inkorrekt
Intermediate Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 176
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 71.237.125.180
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:23 pm: |
|
If Jehovah will solve everything, then why do we need an army? This is why they do not go for active duty.Why does not Jehovah descend down and wipe out all his enemies(We the critics of JW'S)When is this going to happen? |
solo
New member
Username: solo
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 90.198.107.20
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:49 am: |
|
Hi Just wona say firstly yea Iam a lesbian and my partner was a jw she was brout up as one. If u read the posts u will see that i have writen before abt the sexual abuse my partner was put throu by her stepfather n othere members of her family this was watched bye her mother who done nothing abt it. This was all keept quiet and nothing done abt it even tho she became pregnant at the age of 10 bye her stepfather forced to have the child wich was then given to anothere family member to raise.She now has a loving relationship with me and has left the jws for this I thank god. But her family has disownd her and she has bin disfellowshipt which we r pleased abt .It just does not make sence to me that some one can abuse and put a child throu hell and get away with it but if u love some one wether or not thay r the same sex ur punished wot sort of god wld let this happen. I know wot its like to b sexualy abused I was abused from the age of 2 untill I was 15.Iam sory abt the spelling but Iam dyclexic |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1123
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 2:52 am: |
|
SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 2:56 am: |
|
SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 2:56 am: |
|
SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 2:57 am: |
|
SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. They ate the imposters of a CULT .It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1127
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 2:59 am: |
|
SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. They are the imposters of True Christianity.It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1128
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:03 am: |
|
SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. They are the imposters of True Christianity.It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:03 am: |
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SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. They are the imposters of True Christianity.It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
inkorrekt
Senior Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 1130
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.100.184.19
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:05 am: |
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SOLO : My heart goes to you. First of all you must understand that Jehovah's witnesses are not christians. It is a false religion. Christians are equally guillty of not sharing God's love with you.You ae not worse than anyone of us. We do commit sins,may not be the same one as yours, but we are all sinners in other ways in the sight of God. No one is perfect. Who is pure and perfect so that he has the right to stone someone else? God still loves you no matter what we do and how we live. God does not condone your life style. Yet, He loves you. |
bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 989
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.236.150.133
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 1:09 pm: |
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solo,
Check out the website "silentlambs". It is a great site about JW's cover up of child abuse. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 415
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 11:20 am: |
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Dear Solo:
The comments above have prompted me to add my “two cents” into this. What happened to your partner, was a terribly sad crime, disgusting and no child should EVER have to go through this! If it were up to me, and where I come from (having to control those former urgings) he should be shot!
With that said, I wish to mention so some facts about this and the JW’s. First, in over 100 hundred years, the JW’s have had only 11 elders (and subsequently the JW’s) sued for child abuse and more than half of these were dismissed as baseless. This is remarkable when you think of the fact that there are about 80,000 elders world wide, in over 12,000 congregations, thereby making these types of problems rare among the JW’s. The JW’s always seem to get more media attention over one matter than that of others religious groups that have hundreds and thousands of cases that after is simply no longer news.
Anyone who believes that the JW’s as a whole are trying to systematically hurt children and cover things up, is simply being naďve and foolish wanting to believe what they want to believe. As the Bible is candid about the gross failings of God’s servants and people, the JW’s are as well.
Sadly bad things will continue to be part of the human experience until such time that God puts a permanent end to it, which he will do soon!
Finally, the Bible makes clear that certain life styles are not acceptable to God that is a fact all of us must reckon with.
Sincerely,
P |
bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 991
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.236.150.133
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 1:53 pm: |
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The sad truth is that the WTBTS chooses to handle these cases internally. That is the reason that 99% of these cases do not go to court.
Those who makes these cases public are disfellowshipped.
As a former JW, I am well aware of how matters are handled, and it is a shame that those who desire to conduct themselves according to the law, which cancels out the government of the WTBTS, are threatened with this practice.
Disfellowshipping, according to the scriptures, is for gross, unrepented sin, not for having a moral obligation view that differs from an organization. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 416
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 4:35 pm: |
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Bear, I am not the only one that has had different views on law and moral obligations with them and is a JW so your assumption is simply not correct! In the end, the figures I present as fact goes to show it is rare. CASE AND POINT: The Catholic Church and others have done their best to address matters like these in private, though eventually it gets out! One hundred years and 13 cases, (half dismissed) among several thousand and millions of JW’s; Come on be fair!!! If was as prolific as believed and touted by critics, it would be has horrendous as it has turned out for other religions, where it is clear it was a practice and nothing other than transfers were done!!!!
Also, in most all of these matters of differences of opinion, views, that I have seen, there is always another matter connected to it!
It is well documented that the JW’s go out of there way to ensure that all of the JW Christians follow the laws of the land they live in! However, you are entitled to your opinion but I live it and you do not!
Now to be fair there was a time years ago, when the JW’s and other religious organizations treated this matter privately, due to the times, and as time went by, JW’s and others learned more about this subject matter like others have, and they adapted and learned with it! But to believe that the faith breeds people like this, is completely absurd to the highest degree! By way of example when this happened years ago, there was no law requiring it be reported to the authorities, and today there is!
In the end, these matters are rare, as it simply not worth becoming a JW to continue to be a hypocrite. Hypocrites usually become such over time and as such as exposed by man and if not, then most certainly by God!
P |
bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 995
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.236.150.133
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 8:24 pm: |
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Fair enough |
crawly
Intermediate Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 157
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.30.96
| | Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 10:55 am: |
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praetorian-jw is just posting propaganda.
his ''facts about the numbers'' are just lies.
jws are currently up to their necks in child molesting cases as their leadership disfellowships and attempts to ruin the lifes of anyone who dares speak out about it..... go to ''jehovah's witnesses silent lambs'', and read the thousands of cases listed there.
jw leadership are expert at threatening any who speak out, and then claiming no such thing is taking place.......... also one of their favorite sayings as they sweep it under the carpet is to say; ''wait on jehovah, he will clear it up''
yup, jws are leaving the cult in droves as it is being exposed. |
jb44288
New member
Username: jb44288
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 65.25.25.115
| | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 11:42 am: |
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I was disfellowshipped more than 20 years ago. My sin was that I told the elders that I didn't want to be part of an organization that insisted I either stay in a marriage with a mentally ill husband who was threatening to kill me or remain single for the rest of my life (or at least until I could prove that he was sexually active with another woman). My major problems with the insistence of the elders were:
1)My husband had been forcibly committed to mental institutions twice in two different states.
2)He physically abused and terrorized me with beatings, driving into oncoming traffic and threatened to kill me.
3)My husband had homosexual tendencies, so him having relations with another woman were unlikely. Yet, he could have had a homosexual relationship that would not allow me to remarry.
When I was baptized, I was fully informed that if I ever turned away from the “truth”, my friends and family who were also Jehovah's Witnesses would turn away from me. However, I was not informed that a husband could physically and psychologically torture his wife and get away with it. I was not informed that a husband could have a sexual relationship with another man or an animal, and I would not be in a position to divorce and remarry. It was not explained to me that everyone I associated with would encourage me to “wait on Jehovah” to fix things and have faith that I would at least be in the “new system of things” when he eventually killed me.
For years, before, during and after I was a Jehovah's Witness, I saw many instances of abuse of women and children. A few examples:
1)When my mother began studying with the JW's, her husband who was opposed also tried to molest me. She did nothing about it when I told her. I know she went to the elders with every single problem she had in her marriage, yet nothing was done for me. Now I understand that the WTB&TS protects pedophiles by insisting that there be two witnesses to a sex crime against children.
2)A young sister I knew was raped by a brother. She was embarrassed and didn't report it to the elders. When she was about to marry, the rapist confessed to the elders. She was disfellowshipped, and he was privately reproved.
3)Thousands of people have reported to Bill Bowen on his website www.silentlambs.org that they were molested as children in JW congregations, and nothing was done about it.
You can argue doctrine and Scripture all you want, but there is no way that any translation of the Bible or anyone's version of God would approve of such conduct! With the exception of emergency medical matters, my mother still will not speak to me. My brother followed suit until he heard about all of the child molestation cases in the news. He's out of the organization now, in large part to knowing about what happened to me all those years ago. My extended family of an aunt and several cousins also will not speak to me and refused to attend a family reunion of which I was a part. My ex-husband, by the way, is still a JW in good standing with all of the rights and privileges that go with it. He did remarry, and I hear through the grapevine, that he has terrorized and tortured her as well. He maintains contact with his JW relatives, and ironically enough, could socialize with my family if he so desires.
The WTB&TS is a destructive cult that sacrifices women and children. It destroys families and denies its victims the most natural comfort of family. Anyone who would defend this religion is an idiot at best or evil at worst. No one can convince me otherwise. |
jb44288
New member
Username: jb44288
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 65.25.25.115
| | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 12:00 pm: |
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One last thought on my previous post:
My stepfather converted and is a JW in good standing. Since the brother who raped the young sister was privately reproved, no one knew of his violent sexual tendencies. Both my stepfather and the rapist had full access to women and children in the congregation and in the door to door work. The next time you see a smiling JW man in a suit and tie knock on your door, what will you think? |
bear
Senior Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 1034
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.227.244.201
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 8:35 pm: |
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Everyone on this thread should visit www.silentlambs.com in order to read the cases against JW's and their cover up of abuse.
Comparing the Catholic church to JW is not really that applicable. Catholics are not in danger of being disfellowshipped and cut off from their family and friends. |
bear
Senior Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.227.244.201
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 9:07 pm: |
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Here is another link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZpScLCMqEk&feature=related |
jb44288
New member
Username: jb44288
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 65.25.25.115
| | Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:20 am: |
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Bear,
I agree with you about there being no comparison between Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics. Catholics do not destroy families, and their heirarchy has finally publically admitted the problems with child molestation in their midst. JW's steadfastly deny the problem by placing gag orders on victims who win monetary compensation for their damages. Although I am no longer an abused child or wife, I suffer everyday because of this organization. My mother is getting up in years, disabled and living in poverty, and there is not one thing I can do for her, because she is allowed no contact with me. The sadness is so great that I cannot allow myself to dwell on it or I would never stop crying. I hear bits and pieces about her through non-JW relatives, but that's it. If she doesn't unentangle herself from this cult soon, I'm afraid that she will die without ever speaking to me again. All of this heart ache, because I refused to stay in an organization that insisted I live with a dangerous man or remain single for the rest of my life. |
dobman53
Intermediate Member
Username: dobman53
Post Number: 416
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.142.232.232
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 10:33 pm: |
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JW's Are all a mix about far to many things.
Let me relate on an old X JW's tell.
Back in the 70's we that is the JW's using the big date of 1914 as our guide. Soon believed that 1975 would be the end of all times.
Many sold their homes, divested themselves of all their accounts, and went full time door knocking. Many had more than they could spend so they gave it to the Kingdom Hall so others might join in with that final last push.
1975 came and went. Many JW's soon found they were in a serious financial bind. A lot of them felt no need to worry I gave tens of thousands to the organization, the'll lend a helping hand.
No not one was ever helped. The money was for the watch tower society, and that ment to all concerned your money was in a far better place than your pocket.
I remember as a 15 year old young JW man. I went to the organization for help for my family. My father had been hurt in an auto acident and was unable to work for over 4 months. We were totally out of food.
I went to an elder and told him of my families plight. He placed his hand up to his chin, and mumered HuuuMM. I have just the thing for you. He reached in his brief case and pulled out 2 old Watchtowers, and said, Here this should help them out.
Thank goodness our next door neighbors were Baptist. They went to the food locker at their church and filled our kitchen full.
Have you ever noticed if your JW that is. That the main over see'er of your Kingdom Hall is always on vacation.
Back in my day the Watchtower society mailed all the tracts along with a bill we were all obliged to pay. this was a burden on more than just a few. I remember once when the society sent a letter saying how fortunate we were, and how Jehovah felt his blessings towards our kingdom fellowship.
What they had done was sent our Kingdom Hall an extra 1500 watchtowers, and said the bill would soon follow.
One day at a book meeting I said to several of the brothers, We've studied these books several times now. Why don't we get together and have a real Bible study where we discuss the scriptures.
Wrong!! they looked at me like I was the Devil himself. They then said thats how Satan works by having unapproved studies.
I thought to myself WHAT!! your kidding?
That was my last study, and fond fare well it was!
DOB! |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 3993
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
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doberman53... i am glad you got out of the jws. i could never be a jw for one thing they dont believe in hell and they have numorus doctrines that are not biblical nor supported by the bible and they can be very rude to someone who rejects them when they are handling out the books |
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