| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Why listen to has-beens , Go see for yourself the true Apostolic church of the book of Acts , thats in the BIBLE .The U.P.C.I follow the plan of Salvation handed down by JESUS . lISTENING to former Christians , who wanted the world and the pleasure of the world more than they wanted to Obey Gods WORD will always CONFUSE people . God have mercy on all those that pervert THE TRUTH . VISIT A UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH . They preach the WORD OF GOD and will show it to you . They dont make up books and teach you that , they teach the Word Of GOD!!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
The Pentecostal church is NOT the only church that teaches God"s word! Those who say it is sound like cult members. | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm a former UPCI Minister. By the grace of God I'm no longer a member of this heretical group. They deny the Trinity, the Finish work of Calvary, the doctrine of Grace, teach you must speak in tongues & be baptize in Jesus Name to be saved. I wonder how the deaf can speak in tongues? God makes it clear in Scripture how to be saved "John 3:16, Acts 2:21, 4:12, 16:30-31, Romans 10:9-10." We are to be believe in Jesus, and its only by God's grace anyone is saved "not by their made up works," Ephesians 2:1-9. Yes, the Oneness Movement is heretical, and the United Pentecostal Church is a cult!!!!! I'M GLAD TO BE A HAS BEEN!!!!!!  I NOW PREACH & TEACH THE TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST "HIS DEATH, BURIAL & RESURRECTION!!!!" | ||
| woodrow steadman |
thank GOD for people who have seen the truth that it is JESUS who saves and not water baptisim. CHURCHES who teach this baptising for salvation are false in their teaching woodrow steadman | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.6) |
We were in the UPC and UPCI for 16 years, until we ran our own ministry in Ogden, UT. We are no longer UPC, we left her (upc) harlot church, not God! The UPC does teach another gospel, the gospel of man not the gospel of grace as taught by Jesus Himself. Nor do they love as God commamded us to love, their love is shallow like their teaching of men and man made false by-laws of an outward dress sign! No one can stand long when their whole foundation is built upon sand. Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Jesus Christ will profess unto them, that He never knew them! Go away from me, you that have labored and toiled at avoiding the law of faith. (Rom. 3:27, Hos. 11:6).You that have ignored His instructions, and went about to establish their own righteousness. The thing one must seriously ask one self, is what did they do to get themselves into this kind of a position? What kind of person would get this kind of response from the Lord? See Jesus never denied their claims above, the fact that Jesus does not denied them tell us they spoke the truth on these matter. Yet something was wrong, something was missing, and the Lord declares unto them: "I never knew you! Depart from me, you that work iniquity!â These are believer in Jesus they are not backsliders or the lost these are people who claimed to have the truth. But yet they were found lacking! What was lacking was Agape, they did not love as He loved them. Without love we are none of His, without love we shall not see God. Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (KJV) Matthew 7:21 The sense of this verse seems to be this; No person, by merely acknowledging my authority, believing in the Divinity of my nature, professing faith in the perfection of my righteousness, and infinite merit of my atonement, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven-- shall have any part with God in glory; but he who doeth the will of my Father ( Agape) he who gets the bad tree rooted up, the good tree planted, and continues to bring forth fruit (Agape) to the glory and praise of God. The whole bible about perfect love, Agape. We are told to love we are commanded by Jesus to love. Two Great Commandments Deuteronomy 6:4,5 Hear O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might. Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Mark 12:30,31 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." From the Word people learn that all doctrine is based on these two commandments, that the Lord is to be loved above everything else, and the neighbor as themselves. When these two commandments are the end in view the Word is in that case opened up, for all the Law and all the Prophets, that is, the whole of the Word, hangs on them, as does everything from them, and so everything has reference to them. And being in that case governed by the primary teachings concerning truth and good people receive light in each particular thing they see in the Word. For the Lord is present with them at that time by means of angels and is teaching them even though they are not directly aware of it, and is also guiding them into the life of truth and good. I do not believe we are to remain in the same place where we began with God, we are to grow in our walk and knowledge of Him and His word, but most of all His love. My sheep die due to lack of knowledge. Peter, will you tend my sheep? Or better yet, Peter do you agape my sheep? He said to him the third time, "Simon, {son} of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Tend My sheep. "Peter was grieved because Jesus said unto him the third time. . . ." He was awakening to the fact that the truth of his heart, Peter did not Agape Jesus, and he began to see what the patient questioning meant. Peter do you Agape me? There was not the slightest strand of delusion left in Peter's mind, he never could be deluded again. There was no room for passionate utterance, no room for exhilaration or sentiment. It was a revelation to him to realize how much he did not Agape the Lord, and with amazement he said - "Lord, Thou knowest all things." Peter began to see he did love as Jesus loved us. But he did not say - "Look at this or that to confirm it." Peter was beginning to discover to himself how much he did not love the Lord, that there was no one in heaven above or upon earth beneath beside Jesus Christ; but he did not know it until the probing, hurting questions of the Lord came. The Lord's questions always reveal our heart and itâs true condition. The patient directness and skill of Jesus Christ with Peter! Our Lord never asks questions until the right time. Rarely, but probably once, He will get us into a corner where He will hurt us with His undeviating questions, and we will realize that we do not love Him, or otherâs as He Agape us. See love is the hardest thing to do, dressing the outward man is easy and God knows this, that why God hated it so. God wants a heart change, and yes it will show on the outward man but itâs a far cry from a wardrobe change. http://p212.ezboard.com/bexpentecostalforums | ||
| robert (134.68.175.169) |
http://www.geocities.com/ministryofdreams/ end time visions and dreams from Jesus | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.210) |
"oneness" Church a Cult & Threat to Christianity! http://www.celticpandc.com/warning-united.pentacostal.html This church is also plagued with various legalistic doctrines to which members MUST adhere. This is done in order for the members of the Church to Judge them as Christian in GOOD STANDING and be even considered a Christian. One of these I find totally out of place in the Church today and the note that women are "a lesser vessel."Many of these standards have also been developed only since the early 1900's .i.e. You are not a Christian if you do not Speak in Tongues, Women must wear their hair Long and no Jewellery and makeup. They teach that unless you're baptized using the correct formula....theirs!....you're not really saved. One must ask the pastor for almost anything and any decision in life. (many of these things verge on the thinking of a Cult-I dare say that the Bible and Jesus never made specific clothing and the way you wear your hair a demand. This conforming to what everyone else is doing in the church is DANGEROUS.)I must ask that the person think that only our God has a right to Judge us as Christian or not! To be a Christian must one check their brain at the door of the church? The UPCI thinks so! (they are false teachers and prey on the human nature of man!.)...How? Answer: The apostle Peter wrote describing Paul's epistles, "...in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16).I believe that there are many individual powerful practices which characterize the methods of deception employed by false teachers. The twisting of Scripture is universal among them. Few, if any, people go into a cult or aberrant religious movement by reading the Bible alone! They must have some help from false teachers. These false teachers must come to terms with the authority of Scripture. They deal deceptively with this issue in several ways. (the UPCI fails to see that Jesus himself says that all of his authority comes from the Father and that he is dependent on the Father) For instance, one approach is to give respect to the Bible but teach that it cannot be fully trusted. (this the UPCI does in taking on the King James Version of the Bible which is a Transliteration of the Bible not a direct translation. They brush off versions like the RSV which is a translation as it was written according to them by "liberals." So far I have not seen the reason they are liberals! They feel that the K.J. VERSION is the only one that supports their position on the church and all outside extra-Biblical study and Creeds are just that of men and are not to be studied. They miss quote scholars etc.) ,They teach for example that books must have been lost or that texts were altered.(the UPCI feels that the resurrection story as told by the Gospel and the great commission to go out and Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was added scripture) Bible verse is sprinkled liberally in the books to make it appear that the student is studying the Bible. The result is that the Bible is really only being used as a reference book. One can make the Bible prove anything used in this manner. This approach is typical of the Society of Jehovah's Witnesses.The Bible warns about these tactics as Paul compares his true ministry to the false apostles', "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully..." (2 Corinthians 4:2). Describing the methods and motives of the false prophets and teachers, Peter says that,"many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you..." (2 Peter 2:2-3). How does this happen? I believe the average church member is conditioned for it. Rather than follow God's direction and "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15), the average Christian's approach is to expect others to teach them. This leaves the door open to a false leader to by use of orthodox wrapping have a gift of the word inside that is no longer holding to scripture, but that of the opinion of the leader or others. Sometimes this comes from reading the Bible in a literal sense in modern thought rather than consulting what it meant in 1st Century thought. Additionally, there has been of a lack of emphasis on teaching sound, foundational doctrine in the church. Again, God warns His church concerning this (Ephesians 4:11-15; Colossians 2:6-7). Christians must learn to feed themselves as well as give attention to the sound, established, systematic doctrine that has stood the test of time and solid scholarship. (The Orthodox church has withstood the test of time! (The UPCI contend that they are the only ones that are going to heaven-Do you not see something wrong here?) The UPCI counts on the fact that most Christians are not familiar with Greek and Hebrew nor the way to study the Scriptures with objective study helps They do not feel that they should directly look at the words in terms of the period they were spoken but it is right to translate them for today directly.(they even come to the aide of this by officially prohibiting their followers from reading books by scholars that have studied the Bible.) Many do not even read a whole book in the Bible through for its intended context. Therefore, when a false teacher comes with a plausible argument and presents what appears to be a scholarly approach, the novice is impressed. (This to me is a form of Brainwashing in that they have captured the disciple with somewhat orthodox teaching and then the disciple does not any longer question what is stated.) They also use this to say that you will not be happy or have salvation if you leave this church. They will shun you at the store or on the street. It is a way of playing with your mind. They make you feel that they are the only way that the sins they concentrate on are able to be forgiven is if you remain in the cult. They thus twist Scripture through pseudo-scholarship, by deleting and inserting words, by focusing on texts out-of context, and by employing collapsing contexts (unrelated verses put together to say something different).I encourage the Christian to become a student of God's word. The truth of God's Word working with the illuminating and empowering Holy Spirit transforms the Christian into how he is intended to experience life, being conformed to His image.Jesus prayed "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (John 17:17). | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.0.143.200 |
I too was UPCI, but no longer am... I agree that they are legalistic and pharisee... But I have to stand up for Oneness, Baptizm of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues and I stand up for Baptizm in the name of Jesus Christ.... One thing people fail to realize is that when a person believed they were immediatly baptized, read acts, all accounts of believers are baptized right away... ACTS 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were BAPTIZED: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. ACTS 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were BAPTIZED, both men and women. ACTS 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him. ACTS10:48 And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. ACTS 16:15 And when she was BAPTIZED, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. ACTS 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was BAPTIZED, he and all his, straightway. ACTS 18:18 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were BAPTIZED. ACTS 19:5 When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. ACTS 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be BAPTIZED, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Paul, the apostle gives many accounts to us asked us who were baptized in Christ have put on Christ, were baptized into his death, ROMANS 6:3, GALATIANS 3:27, Colossians 2:12 my point: if baptizm isn't that important why, tell me why was it done right at conversion... Jesus himself stated: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God JOHN 3:5... MARK 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. so search your own hearts, search the scripture, please don't take my word for it, take God's... Now on the issue of the UPC holiness standards, MATTHEW 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. MATTHEW 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness GALATIANS 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? | ||
| rhino_co (rhino_co) New member Username: rhino_co Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.220.89.38 |
All I know is that I have checked out a UPC church and it did not impress me. To me it is the most melldramatic church I have ever been to. People running around the pulpit. Different people in there own little cluster. Pastor shouting at the top of his lungs. I thought he was going to pass out. Girls ballingold woman chanting Halelujah over and over. These people are misguided in their faith. So what you can read literal translations of an English bible. You guys miss the big picture of christs and his teachings. You are so stuck on your Jesus only baptism. Go ahead and read the King James literaly get stuck on the small points. Become the MOST SELF-RIGHTOUS people I have ever met. You have the Pentecosts. Praise Jesus that his second successor was found in Topeka Kansas 1900 years and not the "Whore of Babylon" I guess the catholics are making it all up even though the have a documented legacy of all our popes all the way down to St. Peter. Bruhaha wollo woloo nug nug wing wang singolongo bumusikini. Wow I just spoke in Tounges  | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 63.17.113.237 |
okay, I was trying to be nice. Anyway, you sir are walking on shaky ground, there is one sin that is unforgivable and that is blasphme of the Holy Ghost, so you'd better be sure your right. I myself am no longer upc, nor wish to ever be again. I believe they do stand on issues that are not true, but the oneness issue is very much in the bible and baptizm and the recieving the baptizm of the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, before you say another word, (now look who's knocking faith.) read Acts pray and read, and until you do and have scripture to back you up, please quit insulting peoples faith... | ||
| rhino_co (rhino_co) New member Username: rhino_co Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.220.89.38 |
I am not trying to be a jerk but I am only pointing some things that I have seen in a UPC church and why I feel is wrong. 1. where is the plumes of fire that are supposed to be over thier heads as on the day of the pentecost. Second I never said that speaking in tongues was not a actual. Gift of tongues is indeed a charismatic gift that is recognized in Catholic Didecha or doctrine However, I just do not believe thatthese guys that I saw are really doing it. It sounds more like psychobabble to me. I just dont buy that they are speaking in a dead language or some heavenly language. I will reference my Bible which is the Douey-Reims english translation so I will have to paraphrase in some parts because the english is older than the King James version. The meaning is still the same. Lets talk about Tongues a little bit and how it is prescribed to be used as in your favorite book of Acts and compare it to the UPC way. Tongues were supposed to be for the edification of the church. It was a way to bring in the Gentile non-believer into the church by hearing the word of God proclaimed in their native tongue. It nowhere says to just start babbling off in a mantra of incoherent words. And the argument that you are speaking in some Heavenly language is a farce. It defies \ the scripture. The point of tongues is to bring the non-believer into the church. If I speak English and I go into a church in Kansas and here "Brua wua comosua lalala mununun doha broha fugu dugu du.." How does that bring me into your church? What evidence do you have that you are speaking a "Real language and not some made up babble lets look at another point. "Lets talk about tongues baby" In deed the book of acts discusess toungues but lets look at Chapter 14 1st Epistle to the Corinthians where God speaks explicitly how tongues are to be used. I do not feel like writing verbatim the entire chapter but 1 Cor 14:1 to 14:8 speak to the exact purpose and use of the gift. It is supposed to be used for the edification of the church. It is supposed to bring forth revelation to the non-beliver. It is very clear that prophesy is more powerful than tongues but If one speaks in tongues you need an interpreter to reveal the prophecy being said. If it is not being used in this way it is itself a blaspheme. It is supposed to be done in a very orderly manner not the way I saw how it was used in an apostolic church. Here is some quotes 1 Cor 14:4 He speakith in tongues edifies himself ;But he that prophesies, edifies the church. 14:5 .......... Greater is he who prophesies than he that speaks in tongues, unless he interprets that the church receive edification(building up). To paraphrase 14:6 and 14:7 Brothers if I (Jesus) come to you speaking in tongues how will you profit(benefit) unless I speak to you in revelation or in knowledge or in prophesy or in doctrine? 14:7 Even things without life give distinct sounds such as a pipe or a harp. How will you know the sound of the Pipe over the Harp. i.e how will you know what is being prophesized as revelation or in knowledge of doctrine. Here is where it is specific about Tongues requiring them to be in plain speech. 1 Cor 14:9 So likewise you, except you utter the tongue in plain speech(not in babble talk) How shall it be known what is said for you will be speaking into the air. 14:10 There are so many tongues in this world and none without voice. 11 If then I know not the power of the voice it shall be to him whom im speaking a barbarian and he that speaketh barbarian to me. i.e I will be speaking in the language of the person I wish to communicate. Again not a bunch a rambling and incoherent montra! 14:13 Therefore, He speakith in a tongue let, him pray that he may interpret. 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue my spirit prayeth but my understanding is without fruit. i.e. If I am praying in tongue that I dont understand than it has no meaning or relevance. 14:19 (Here is specifics of how it must be used) In the church I had rather speak five words of UNDERSTANDING (NOT BABBLING INCOHERENTLY!!!!  ) That I may be able to instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue. i.e AGAIN Speak five intelligible words than ten thousand words babbling in a tongue. 1 14:22 Tongues are for a sign NOT to believers but to the UNBELIEVERS, and Prophecies are to believers and not to the unbelievers. Therefore Tongues are used to edify the church to bring in the non-believer and Prophecy is for those that already are believers. T 1 Cor 14:27 If any speak in a tongue let it be by two at the most three, and in course let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter than he his to remain SILENT and speak between himself and God. 29 Let the profits speak two or three and the rest judge. 30.For you may all prophecy one by one ; that all may learn, and all may be exhorted. 32 And the spirits of the profits are subject to the Profits. (here is what I believe is the most important evidence against apostolic churches. 33 For God is not the God of dissention(Disorder) but the God of peace.(Order) To sum up this chapters highlights. Tongues are used only for the edification of the church to bring in the non-believer. They are not for the believer. That is exactly how it was used in Acts. You are to speak with interpretation, meaning you need to be speaking in a language that is spoken by one of the non-believers in your midst. Not some made up BS. If there is no one to here your meaning than you are speaking with no relevance to the audience, and need to shut up. It must be done in an ORDRLY I say again ORDERLY fashion. Not 5 people rattling off in tongues in different parts of the room. While grown men and women are running around the church and the Preacher is just shouting into the air and maybe one or two people are actually listening to him. Your faith is based on scripture alone so it is a mute point arguing with you. My faith is that scripture is not the sole bases of faith, and that is solidified in Holy Tradition NOT NOT NOT MANS TRADITION. Faith is Faith you have a legalistic view of scripture which I don't buy because I can name how many times I have had fundamentalists chastise my church with fucking one-liners that I shot down. God of order and Harmony not disorder and chaos! So if God is a God of order and Harmony and not disorder and chaos than maybe the church should emulate that order. Just a thought! But what do I know, supposedly, I worship statues practice voodoo and worship paintings and listen to the anti-Christ that made up a religion that is 2000 years strong that resides in the Whore of Babylon. I am not trying to insult people in these churches but mearly scrutinize their church. I question my church all the time for meanings of stuff and I always get evidence to back it up. Granted it is not always in the Bible. As for the UPC members I honestly think they feel that they are speaking in tongues because the human psychie is a very powerful thing. I think if you want something bad enough and the way they emphasise it you can be hypnotised into thinking that you are really speaking in tounges, and you will truly believe it. I was on ex pentecostal ministers website where he said that he indeed learned hypnosys techniques. I am trying to find it on the web but cant at the moment. My goal is not to be an asshole. I just get real fired up about this topic because it was one that almost drove me out of my mind for 4 months while my Aircraft commander in the Air Force tried to proseletyze me into a pentecostal church. Oddly enough prior to him I had very little faith, and because of him I found the road that led to Rhome. I will talk more tomorrow on Oneness and how legalistically on the surface but I believe has some fallicies to it. (Message edited by rhino_co on April 28, 2005) | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Rhino well said. Notice who spoke in tongues on the day of pentacost, The apostles for the edification of the church. A known language. The church has been edified. If the lord needs me to speak french to a french couple in my church, he will give me the gift. Otherwise my english congregation will do just fine in english. amen. | ||
| jason_stone (jason_stone) Intermediate Member Username: jason_stone Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.78.216.15 |
First of all, you have no business talking about God whatsoever if you can't do it without cussing. Where did Jesus tell me to pray to dead saints to make intercession for me? Early christains often danced and kissed and hugged. It was Liceneus who put a stop to that. He was not even a christian just a second in command to Constatine. So when you throw off on it your are following the decision of a man. Tongues are misused quite a bit. Thee should be an interpretor, or you should interpret. You can also speak in plain words. It happens just like speaking tonues, but, it needs no interpretation. You can understand it. You cannot find one place in the new testament where anyone was baptized any other way than Jesus name. james 2:24 You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. You call Holiness legalistic. But, all we do is put our faith in action. Women not cutting their hair. It is a work of faith. Not cussing and carrying on is a work of faith. You can say you have faith. But, you see my faith in my everyday living. How I dress, act, how I treat others. Holiness without loving people is of none effect though. Some people dress modestly and everything, but, they are full of the works of the flesh. Please do not mock speaking in tongues. No matter what you think of it. It isn't good sense. Tongus is not, and I repeat, not a sign of slavation. Everyone does not have to speak in tongues in order to be saved. They do have to be born again of the Holy Ghost. If you are born of the Holy Ghost you will have the fruits of the spirit as well as gifts of the spirit. I am not affiliated with any denomination. So do not try to paint me into a corner with downing a particular denomination. Rhino, until you clean up your language you shouldn't even speak of God. That is crazy. Cuss like a sailor one breath, and, talk about God the next. You do know bitter and sweet can not come out of the same fountain. If you were born of God you wouldn't want to cuss. I can tell by the fruits you bare(mocking, cursing, high mindedness, and unbelief)that your don't seem to be born again. | ||
| rhino_co (rhino_co) New member Username: rhino_co Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.220.89.38 |
If you are not affiliated with any denomination than why be so offended? If you are not in the UPC than I was not talking about you. My goal is not to offend anyone personally. In fact I will point out that the people in the church were openly nice when I went to their church. But on the other hand when I was being proseletyzed I was real distirbed about the UPC teachings that it actually got into my current faith stronger than it has ever been. My goal is point out to people who are so readily willing to point out everything wrong with my church, that they can act erroneously. As for my church, I never said it was infallible. Anything involving humans is not going to be perfect. Anyone to make a stance that their church can do no wrong well!! Then I have pity. I will talk later about my churches stance on saints I will never put on a phony act. I am not a self-righteous holly roller either. That is who I am talking to. Anyone who thinks they are hollier than thou (A great Mettilica song) than that is who I am talking to. Not only do I cuss, but I also watch cable TV, with shows like South Park and I listen to Metallica and Megadeth. I believe my faith is strong enough that I do not have to have to put on a phony melodramatic act in front of people. I am who I am and I do not try to hide it. I never said I wasnt an A-hole. At least I can admit it. I would rather be candid and up front speaking in truth of who I am than to put on a phony act. Lets talk about those works. I lived in Oklahoma and got see the works of self proclaimed Christians. I knew all kinds of people that would talk about God Bless this and Jesus loves you, the Bible says this and the Bible says that They would be the biggest hypocrites. Talking bad about their neighbors. Hearing them talk gossip in the coffee shop. I had a few friends along the way that would live The Christian Life Listening to their Mercy Me and Richard Mullens, and they would be the biggest assholes to people. Ironically I had Wicken friends would be more polite to others supposed Christians. So I could careless about your outward works. That means fecal matter to me. I am not trying to come off as a jerk but I am just trying to make a point. So what I cuss, a bit I can at least admit being fallible. Here is what Jesus had to say to a Self-Rightous holy roller and his holly works. St. Luke 18:10 (This is the Douey Translation) Two men went up into the temple to pray: One a Pharisee and the other a Publican (Public Offical/Tax Collector) 11: Pharisee prayed (Oh God I give thanks to thee that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers as also this Publican. 12: I (Pharisee) fast twice a week: I give tithes of all I possess.(Not money in Jewish Law, not to get on a tangent ) 13 Parhrased the tax collector is asking for mercy for his sins. 14: I say to you this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. Everyone that exhalteth himself shall be humbled. And he that humble himself shall be exalted. Basically whoever thinks they are so holly and self righteous will be brought down a level. And the humbled person that recognizes his faults and asks for mercy will be brought up Today the typical prayer would sound like this "Oh jesus thank you for making my sins go away. I am so glad I am doing it right. I pray all day, listen to the right music, I dont watch cable I wereth what pertainith to a man , I quote your words all the time, pay my tithes and do everything else holly in your name" Thank you for not making me like that Catholic heathen over there, who cusses all the time, listens to metallica worships false Idles. Listens to the anti-christ( i.e The pope) I am glad I see the truth. Please have mercy on that sinning heathen that he can be like me, a perfect christian in your image, Amen" To paraphrase scripture. Jesus said Judge not unless you yourself be judged. You are so worried about the sins of others that you do not look at your own sins, Hyporocrite worry about your own sins and not the sins of others Judge not, lest ye be judged your self Matthiew 1-7 and a Mettalica lyric To the above poster I dont know you so I am not trying to strike a nerve with you or insult you personally. But if this post does strike a nerve than maybe you need to do some soul searching and take a look at how good are your works. Again I dont know you so as far I know you can be doing it right. I am not knocking those who are doing it right. I am knocking anyone self-righteous who thinks they are a good Christian merely by just there outwardly acts.i.e Listening to christian music and quoting scripture all day and talking about Jesus this and Jesus that, yet they treat people like dirt! I am not knocking those acts as long as you are not hypocryitical thats all you are right maybee I can refrain from cussing but I feal it adds emphasis to things that really make me mad. Peace (Message edited by rhino_co on April 29, 2005) (Message edited by rhino_co on April 29, 2005) | ||
| jason_stone (jason_stone) Intermediate Member Username: jason_stone Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.78.218.41 |
I know a lot of christians who do the same thing(gossiping and backbiting). And, according to their works they are not christian. A buddhist is closer t being christian than they are. I am fallible as well. My biggest weakness is impatience. I can be very impatient. I am not above any sin. I can be tempted like any other person. I try to do my best at resisting it. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. I do not pray like that. There may be people in every type of church that does. So you can;t stick that label on pentecostals alone. I generally do what most catholics do in confession. But, I pray to Jesus to forgive me. I usually don't ask anyone else to make intercession for me but him. Because, the bible says he is our intercessor. I am not trying to offnd just stating how I pray. The bible teaches that blessing and cursing shouldn't come from the same mouth. That is why I had to quit cussing. It was hard to. I think it may have been harder than quitting drinking. Which, it was harder to stop smoking pot than it was to quit drinking. I still can't be around it or I will be overcome and do it. I believe Jesus said to cut off your hand if it offends you. I say, if you feel like you are doing something that is keeping you from the Lord. Then get rid of it. Like if you are a alcholic. And, you know if ou have access you will eventually drink. So you make it where you never have access. Same with drugs or anything. If you have people you go around, and, when you do you act in ways you know you shouldn't. Then you should limit your time with them. Or, stop associating with them. Another thing I have a hard time with is being gentle, harmless. I do alright till someone does something to me. Like my neighbor spun my yard up. I was furious. When I was younger I would have beat him down. But, I was able to refran. Also I was able to hold my peace in not sayig bad things about him. It is hard to give up the macho type of attitude. But, in order to be confrmed to Christ I have to. I also watch tv. I have friends who don't. I admire them for it. I just feel like if something comes on I don't feel comfortable with I change the channel or cut it off. And, music. I love oldies. Elvis especially. I listn to gospel quite a bit as well. Probably listen to it more than anything. I try not to listen to any heavy maetal or rap anymore. I never really liked rap anyway. But, I liked metallica. I used to play their songs when I first started playing guitar. I also like a group called Danzig. Megadeth, I liked screaming bullets. I LIKED those things, but, I truly LOVE gospel. What we play is called rockabilly gospel. It sounds more like Chuck Berry or Elvis than traditional gospel. But, I like that too. I don't care much for southern gospel. I love black quartet gospel. I do not belong to UPC. But, there are some common beliefs. I just don't like it when people judge a entire group by a few individuals. You will find fakers in every type of church. Menpleasers and the like. I don't go to church to be seen, or, to justified in the eyes of man. I go to worship Jesus. I aske him to forgive me of my sins, I ask him for guidance. And, then I am obedient to him. That is all we really need to do. Be obedient to him. And, when we stumble he catches us. He cleans us back up and helps us get back on track. We all mess up. We all sin. The difference is if you do it knowing it is wrong. And, not caring or repenting for it. We have to help each other along the way. Sometimes we have to admonish one another. If we see a brother doing wrong or about to. Warn him so he doesn't get messed up. I would like it if people would do the same for me. | ||
| rhino_co (rhino_co) New member Username: rhino_co Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.220.89.38 |
Thats good. I am glad you see it that way. Because I have ran into a slew of people that don't, throughout the years. Granted not all of them were pentecostal either. You are right, if you can not resist temptation than it probably is good not to be arround it. I my self have just got back into the faith after 15 years of being away from it. I think if all christians can see it that way the world be a better place. No matter what denominaation you are, I think the important thing is that I belive that we all share is baptism of the holy spirit, and understand the big picture of what a christian is supposed to be. Obviously we have doctrinal differinces on how to achieve these things. But I feel that big picture Jesus wants all his children to get along and treat each other well, over arguing over minutia. I just wish some other christains that I have run into throughout the years would see the big picture of all the grace of God first, before worrying about the smaller things. | ||
| jason_stone (jason_stone) Intermediate Member Username: jason_stone Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.78.216.246 |
I am unitarian, but, my freind(who is a pastor) is a trinitarian. We have had many wonderful services together. And, we have never argued or said a harsh word to one another. I have no problem with His beliefs, and, I don't force mine on him. So we chose Love over doctrine. And, love is the greatest of all. I believe anyone baptized witht the Holy Ghost can be saved. No matter what church they are in. It is the baptism into the body that matters most. There were people in the book of acts who had been baptized, but, hadn't recieved the Holy Ghost. So I don't pay to much attention to water baptism. Just the Holy Ghost baptism. And, I don't think tongues are the only sign of the Holy Ghost. That is a slightly misguided teaching. Pual said DO ALL SPEAK WITH TONGUES? You have to go by the ruits of the Spirit. You can't go by healing and things like that either. Becuase the 70 were sent out and healed all sorts of people and cast out devils. And, they had never been baptized witht he Holy Ghost yet. This was way before pentecost. So you have to go by a persons fruits. Not, that they can't mess up. But, they repent and do better. People with the Holy Ghost are generally joyful humble people. I know a man who goes to church. And, everybody has jealousy over him. And, they talk about him. But, he is hunble and quiet and joyfull as he can be. He won't even argue with anyone. Yet when he gets in church God uses him mightily. That is why others are jealous. I am glad we came to a peaceful resolution. To often on these boards people resort to name calling and slandering. And, the body of Christ isn't edified with that at all. God Bless in Jesus name. | ||
| tam (tam) New member Username: tam Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.235.244.8 |
Hi I am UPC. I don't want to argue or anything, but rhino earlier you were quating 1cor.14 but you left out 1cor.14:2 which reads For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. Speaking in Tounges is not always to edify the church. Sometimes the spirit crys out to God and God only understands this. This is in 14:2 To edify the church is when one person talks in tonges and another tells what was said. And to you all that has left the oneness, I have not a clue how people can walk away from this! UPC yes, but not Oneness. This is how we pray: Lord I Love you Jesus, I worship you, You are so HOLY, I Magnify you, I Exalt you, Lord help me to become more like you, mold me into your likeness, purge me of all things that does not pertain to you Lord touch these people have your way with their life and put a shield of protection around them and I plead the blood over them. Thank you Jesus, I love you Lord In you name Jesus Amen And rhino I also live in Oklahoma, and you pretty much said we are all hypicritis. You find people like this all over, every state, country, race, and religion. We stay away from things so we do not harm and flood our mind with wrong things. You can't not watch something and not get some things in your mind. This is how satin gets you. Do you know your mind is the eassiest place for satin to target, if he can put something in your head and you start wattering that thought it will usully become an action. This is why we stay away from things like tv and wordly music. Look at how people are dressing these days the more flesh they show the more they are happy. Lets forget about our children are seeng parts of women that no one except her husband should see. Lust is what the world is all about, if it feels good do it. I personally don't want anything to do with the world. Not because I am better, but because the world has nothing to offer me, that I can't get from Jesus. God Bless!! | ||
| acts238 (acts238) Junior Member Username: acts238 Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 68.51.131.132 |
rockin4jesus If you do not go to a UPC now where do you go? I attend a UPC church and love it. People who come and visit are surprised when they come because it is not at all at how they were told it would be and see the love everyone has for God and each other. I have had no problems at all. Is it all according to what Pastor is over the church? I know my Pastor is very much about Family so on days that service fall on that may be a Holiday we only have one service that day so you have more time with your family. My Pastor also does not preach against a lot of things not because he believes in them but because he wants people to be led by God not man. So I was wondering if it comes back to what Pastor is over the church that makes the people think it is a cult or a Legalistic church. I am guessing that could go for any denomination for that matter. Hope this makes some kind of sense and I am not just rambling | ||
| tam (tam) New member Username: tam Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.235.244.11 |
To Act238 Yes, I believe it all lies within the Pastor. I have had two that were very demanding. My last pastor didn't know how to council right, he is double minded. Told the person one thing and then preached it totally opposite the next service. He has let the pastor thing go way too far and I had to leave there because I no longer felt God there. It was not me, but many others on the counselling. You just have to stay prayed through, you don't get involved in this and stay diricted on Jesus. Yes, the Pastor's like this is not only in Pentecost, but all over. My mother had one in her Baptist church. Almost like mine. I think Pentecost gets so much because people have problems with the difference outside and inside. Our pastors get scrutinized more because they don't have to go to school to be pastors and some do push their authourity around a lot. I love UPC though, and I love Oneness. and I pray that I never walk away from Jesus. My past church was not UPC, but a Jesus Name church. What is Awsome is that I had been praying for Jesus to help me on the Pastor thing and I was praying for my moms church also. The very same day I moved to another church, my mothers preacher quit. That was from God! Praise God! | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 184 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
Salvation comes exclusively through the blood. If you haven't put your trust in the blood of Jesus, for remission of sin, then there is no heaven for you. However, the Holy Spirit baptism Jesus asked the disciples to wait for is totally different from salvation. The disciples on resurrection morn received the Holy Spirit as life, not as a Person. It would be wrong to say that the disciples weren't saved on resurrection morning. The Holy Spirit came as Person to make abode in them "forever" only on the Day of Pentecost, for the following reasons: Jesus said He would SEND the Holy Spirit from the Father. To send something, the sender must obviously be absent from the recepient. On resurrection morn, Jesus was with the disciples in Person, and He just breathed over/into them the Holy Spirit. This is in line with the fact that the Holy Spirit would not come unless Jesus departed. The guide and manual for any Christian is the bible, and all of it is profitable for doctrine. The book of Acts being part of the Scripture, was written by Luke to share the Acts of the Holy Spirit through the Aposltes. The Lord meant the acts of the Holy Spirit to continue till the end of the Church dispensation, however we find very few churches today living as the early Church did. Some churches are but open graveyards, storing people for hell. They have a false message. They have a message but it is never confirmed with signs, wonders, miracles and healings. For them Jesus is a Jesus of yesterday. They claim the age of miracles are over and that the Holy Spirit baptism is history. Coming from a hindu background, I didn't have a problem studying the Word of God. I didn't have any preconceived knowledge of the Word. All I had with me was the Word and the dear Holy Spirit. Speaking the truth about matters, has already caused problems both among unbelievers and believers. Some keep from speaking the truth, while others compromise. Very few stand against all the ill winds of false doctrines. Any one who preaches that a person needs to be baptized in the Holy Ghost to be saved, has no knowledge of Scripture and is misleading people. God has placed highest priority to the Holy Ghost baptism among Christians. It is a must that all born-again Christians must receive the Holy Spirit personally. This is power for service. The book of Acts shows us that every christian who received the Holy Spirit, would clearly know for sure whether he or she has received the Holy Ghost. There is a definite scriptural evidence and the evidence is speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance. Don't mistake me, this is not a Pentecostal doctrine, but a bible doctrine. Most Christian retaliate and say Paul said, "Do all speak in tongues?". The bible clearly distinguishes between the "gift" of tongues and the evidence of speaking in tongues. The bible teaches that believers would lay hands on the sick and they would recover. However, this does not mean all believers have the gift of healing. The bible in the same passage says believers would speak in new tongues. The gift of tongues is totally different from the evidence. To understand this compare Act2, 10, 19 and 1 Cor12 and 14. No one has to be worried about the evidence, just as much they needn't worry about getting wet when they are baptized in water. It would be dumb to argue about this. However, I tell people this so as to keep them from blasphemying against the Holy Spirit. Those who say speaking in tongues is of the devil is in grave danger of blasphemying against the Holy Spirit. Sidharth | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 971 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.42.253 |
Sidharth, I have a question for you. For the sake of discussion, let's assume that what you say is true. Would you agree that there are pagan, occultic believers that also practice the gifts, for example; speaking in tongues? The Bible, I think you would agree, warns about satan infiltrating the church. Let's say you are a newcomer and haven't had the chance to observe whether the fruits were for the glorification of God or for satan, (pretending to be for God) ultimately. Would you agree that Christians will not be grieving the Holy Spirit if they have concerns about whether the church is of God or Satan's devises, and therefore avoid churches that practice such things, sincerely believing the Holy Spirit guides them away from it? | ||
| arron (arron) Intermediate Member Username: arron Post Number: 488 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.39.9 |
anything that GOD has the devil has a copy or conterfiet. if there is not a real speaking in tongues no one.. could do it period.. not even us pentecostals. | ||
| greatguy1968 (greatguy1968) New member Username: greatguy1968 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.61.107.67 |
Hi all. I am new to this web area. I am former UPC myself. I preached in the UPC for almost 12 years, and attended UPC bible college for 2 years. By the way, I am gay. I was kicked out of a well-known UPC in Michigan a couple years ago, and it has made a tremendous impact in my life. To make a long story short, I confided in one of the "elders" of the UPC that I was attending. I thought that I was doing the right thing by "confessing" my faults to one another, as Paul the Apostle instructed. BIG MISTAKE! The elder didn't take 24 hours in contacting the pastor, and next thing I know, I'm sitting in the pastor's office battling it out like no tomorrow. Let me say this before I go any further. . .I was raised in the pentecostal church. It was/is all I've ever known. I was always taught to respect the pastor in whatever decisions were made. After all, he is the man of God, right? Well, at this point in my life, I just knew in my knower that this "man of God" was not making the right decision in kicking me out. I was told in very clear terms that I was not allowed back into the church for any reason, and that I would not be allowed back until I recanted my "lifestyle", and bore full repentance of my wicked ways. And the saints in the church were not allowed to contact me for any reason. It devastated me beyond measure. It ruined my confidence in the ministry, and the UPC at large. Today, I have a apostolic ministry of my own reaching out to the gay/lesbian communities. And it never ceases to amaze me the number of gay and lesbian saints who have been kicked out the back door literally, like myself, because of the fear and ignorance of ministers. God help us to find the true love of Christ. Love to hear from you all. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 976 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.40.188 |
greatguy, Hello. Could I ask you a couple of questions? For all we know, the prodigal son could have been gay. A Father loves His children. As a mother, I certainly will love my children no matter what. If you were a upc minister, do you speak in tongues and/or interpret? Also, do you believe you were sanctified (according to pentecostal definition of it) when you became one? If the 'saints' in the church were not allowed to contact you for any reason, had any of them been close friends or associates? (I am assuming they must have been if you ministered for so long). If so, did they give up your friendship because of the church leaders? | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 185 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
There has to be real money for there to be counterfeit money. If people start printing counterfeit money, would you stop using real money? There are countefeit gifts and real gifts. The bible clearly speaks about 'lying wonders' the Anti-Christ will perform when he makes his arrival, an thereby deceive many. During Moses' time, the Egyptian magicians and sorcerors performed signs, wonders and miracles. But did God stop working through Moses because the devil was counterfeiting His gifts? No! If you would come to India, you would find a lot of such people who perform miracles in the hindu religion, and attribute it to God. But when we take what they preach to the Word of God, it never agrees with the Word. These are lying wonders, as the Bible calls it. There is a man here by the name Sai Baba who performs mighty miracles and claims he is 'god'. What is our safety? Signs, wonders, and miracles? No! The Word of God. Signs, wonders and miracles are very much an integral part of the gospel, but signs, wonders and miracles is not the gospel. Signs, wonders and miracles CONFIRM the Word of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs following. Amen (Mark 16: 20) It is dangerous to disregard the work of the Holy Spirit. The works of the Holy Spirit always glorifies Jesus. If it does not, it is not from God. The Word of God is the paramount, Godchild. Not miracles or healings. I don't go seeking signs, I go seeking the Word. And where the Word is preached, God will confirm it with signs following. Did the early Christians disregard the works of God? Did they stop preaching the gospel and believing in miracles because some people performed counterfeit miracles? In Samaria there was a sorceror by the name Simon, he had bewitched the people who lived there and they gave heed to this man saying, This man is the great power of God.(Act 8:10) Did Philip stop believing in the miracles and healings and that God would confirm what he preached with signs following? Absolutely not! Simon beheld the miracles and healings that were done by God through Philip and he was amazed. God's power is different from Satans. A baptist would find this hard to believe, because he may not believe God still performs mighty miracles as in the first century. It takes the baptism in the Holy Ghost to step into this miraculous realm of God's power. Fortune telling and astrology are counterfeit works of the gift of knowledge and prophecy. Does this mean , the gift of the Spirit does not exist? In the sixteenth chapter of Acts, we find a girl who had a spirit of divination, and was supposedly prophesying. Did Paul stop preaching and prophesying, because the devil was counterfeiting the gifts of the Spirit? Did he start disregarding the gifts of the Spirit? Did he start speaking ill of the gifts of the Spirit, just because many counterfeited it? He knew better than anyone what it meant to call the Holy Spirit in a person a devil and to attribute the works of the Spirit to the devil. Paul being grieved by this young girl, turned and said to the divination spirit to come out of the girl in the name of Jesus. I honor the Holy Spirit and His marvelous works that glorify Jesus. Sidharth | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 187 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
The fruit of the Spirit is the paramount of Christian faith, not the gifts of the Spirit. Jesus said , Ye shall know them by their fruit, not by their gifts. Gifts is in no way the deciding factor whether you belong to the Lord or not, but fruit of the Spirit is. If you don't have the fruit of the Spirit, you don't belong to Jesus. But that doesnot mean we must disregard the gifts of the Spirit. Is it possible to have the gifts of the Spirit and still not belong to the Lord? No. I know the Charismatic Churches teach this. However, the answer is no. The gifts of the Spirit are only for those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit, and who are born-new. No one who has lost his salvation, can have the gifts of the Spirit. God doesnot work against His own kingdom, for people to use gifts as they want. Sidharth | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 977 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.46.174 |
sid, Now I can agree with what you say; "Gifts is in no way the deciding factor whether you belong to the Lord or not, but the fruit of the Spirit is." And when you say that doesn't mean we must disregard the gifts of the Spirit, I accept that. I know many who have extraordinary abilities given to them by the Holy Spirit. I have also had miracles happen in my life and seen miracles happen in other's lives. But I have never known or have knowledge of anyone today whose fruits are more evident in those who speak in tongues (real or otherwise), than those who do not. I would add to your statement "No one who has lost his salvation, can have the gifts of the Spirit,"--but they can pretend to. Daily we see preachers who claim to have gifts, while their fruits are rotten to the core. Baker, Swaggert, Hinn are a few. Many good Christian people have fallen into their trap. And all of these men profess to love the Lord, and use the Lord's name to deceive. It happened in the New Testament churches and it happens today. | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 190 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 210.212.241.130 |
The bible is the paramount, not denominational doctrines. I have closely looked into what you put up around here and have come to the conclusion, you are living testimony of a baptist. I have met countless baptists, who are wonderful men and women of God. But most baptists shun the gifts of the Spirit, which are divine gifts from God the Holy Spirit. With the Charismatic movement, the gifts of the Spirit are now operating even in churches that were previously baptist in faith. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for all, but for those whom the Holy Spirit wills. However, no one can receive the holy gifts of the Spirit, without being baptized in the Holy Ghost, which is a different experience other than salvation. I have reasoned with many baptists, trying to show them from the Word of God that the baptism in the Holy Ghost is for today and a person will know instantly when he or she is baptized in the Holy Ghost.Those who are open to the Word of God, have often agreed, because they wanted to move on with the Lord rather than stay as a baptist or a pentacostal. Then the question, I often ask them is: What is the bible evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism?From the Word of God, the only evidence that the apostles ever looked for was not the fruit of the Spirit, but the evidence of speaking in tongues. I know multitudes of Christians who have received this bible experience, have spoken in tongues at the time of receiving the Holy Ghost, but they have never received the gift of tongues. Taking the bible as the only manual makes things very easy. But when people have a preconceived notion that certain things are wrong, which in actuality is true, it's hard for them to accept the truth. If you relive the bible experiences in the book of Acts, you will be astonished to see that the ALL, absolutely ALL who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. In your posts, I've seen you call the tongue of the Holy Spirit as 'gibberish'. Do you know what it means by stammering lips and other tongues? Stammering lips is the perfect description of speaking in tongues. The time I received the Holy Spirit, a river gushed out of my belly pouring forth in such force, that the only way for it to come out was my mouth. I was dumbfounded to know that this experience was indeed for today. My lips were stammering and I spoke in a beautiful language unknown to me for around 10 minutes. I had received the same Holy Spirit , the early disciples did. However, experiences are not paramount, the Word of God is. Is my experience according to the Word of God? Absolutely! Is there any way the BIBLE teaches that we can know that we are baptized in the Holy Spirit? However, there are those who counterfeit speaking in tongues. I have gone to so many Pentacostal denominations where, the people speak gibberish, it was not the REAL speaking in tongues. Long tiem back, I read an evangelist writing in his book that we must speak in tongues at will. This is a false doctrine. No one speaks in tongues at will. As we yield our tongues, the Holy Spirit gives us utterance. The disciples didn't know anything about speaking in tongues, neither did I. But when the Holy Spirit made His abode in me, He made it evident by speaking through me in an unknown langauge. Sidharth | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 999 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.45.121 |
You say I am living testimony of a baptist. I say you are living testimony of a pentecostal. I doubt that I will ever again place my name on a document made by man's hands that would place me as a member of any organized earthly church, because organized religion, no matter what denomination I have studied, places their views ahead of God's Word in one way or another. When the Holy Spirit made His abode in me, He made it evident by my new ability to love God and people in ways I was never able to before, and to finally truly understand His love for me. God broke my heart so that He could remold it for Him. I am a work in progress for Him. How can you judge when others are speaking in gibberish or in tongues? Where does the Bible say to yield our tongues? In fact, the Bible tells us to learn to 'hold our tongue'.} Speaking in tongues always related to Israel. Paul said, "I thank God I speak with tongues more than you all," and he told us exactly where and why he spoke with tongues at that time. It was in fulfillment of the jewish prophecy concerning how God was going to deal with unbelieving Israel, "this people." -Isa 28:9-12, 1 Cor. 14:18-22. Speaking in tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews and is never found after God breaks off the last of "the natural olive branches (Israel)." "The Jews require a sign," God promised to give the sign of tongues, and Paul said, speaking with tongues was not for the church but was a sign for unbelievers in fulfillment of God's promise in "the law,' -Isa. 28:9-12, 1 Cor. 1:22, 14:18-22. Every Bible instance of "speaking in tongues" is in connection with doubting or unbelieving Jews. - Acts 2:4-7; 10;44-46, 19:3-8. "Whether there be tongues, they shall cease...When that which is perfect is come." -1 Cor. 13:8-10. As soon as Paul was inspired to give Christians the revelation of their completeness in Christ (Col. 2:10-12) and the fact that God had temporarily ceased to deal with the Jewish nation, all believers were told that they were perfect in Christ and were neither "Jews nor gentiles" but citizens of heaven. Thus, "that which is perfect" had come and tongues ceased.- 1 Cor. 2:6-6(3:1-4), Phil. 3:3, 15, Romans 11:25, Acts 28:28, 2 Cor. 5:16, 17. Traces of the gift are found in the Epistles to the Romans, the Galatians and the Ephesians. From the Epistles of Peter and John, they are altogether absent. The gifts were used at a critical time in the church (declaring the gospel to the Gentiles), but not to the continual life of the church, which has continued without it. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 shows clearly there is no longer a need for tongues. Having the Word, we are equipped for every good work. There is absolutely no evidence that those who practice the 'speaking in tongues' are any closer to God, or more loved by Him, or are more capable of following Him in love, than those who do not. 1 John is a beautiful book that teaches the importance of love; so much so that in five chapters, he uses different forms of the word 46 times. In chapter 3 he explains the outworking of love, (Paul also taught that love was the greatest gift). Verse 18 "My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth." God's Word is the paramount. Pray for understanding, for wisdom, for truth. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. There has also been discussion about 'tongues of fire'. "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire (There was no fire. Instead of appearing as a dove as He had done when coming upon the Lord Jesus, here the Holy Spirit appears in the form of "cloven tongues like as of fire.") The baptism with fire that John the Baptist spoke of is to take place when Christ returns "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that KNOW NOT GOD and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess. 1:7-10. In other words, no believer in Christ has, or ever will be "baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire." The fire is only for the Christ-rejecter. It should also be noted that the messages given in tongues were concerning "the wonderful works of God." -Acts 2:11. There is no hint in the Bible that a Gentile believer in the Lord Jesus ever had to tarry a second after regeneration in order to receive the Holy Spirit and be bapized with the Holy Spirit into the body (the church which is Christ's body). -Acts 10:43-46, 1 Cor. 12:12-13. There is not one instance in the entire "New Testament" where an individual believer in Christ ever prayed that he or she might be bapized with or might receive the Holy Spirit. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 536 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
we as pentecostals do not tarry for the baptisum of THE HOLY GHOST as HE comes when we obey and ask HIM. i am pentecostal and will remain so. i do not go in for all this fanatical stuff that some accuse us pentecostal of. sure there are some who do those thing.. in all.. including batist ect.. churches. and in those who claim NO CHURCH association too. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1001 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.46.169 |
arron, Don't you think the Holy Spirit is always with you? Do you think He only comes to you when you obey and ASK Him? Why do you think you need to get baptized over and over again? Please share Bible verses which say this. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1002 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.46.169 |
Arron, You keep saying some do and you don't. Why do you feel the continual need to defend what you say you don't do? Have you ever addressed pentecostal churches to tell them they are giving yours a bad name? | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 537 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
i dont beleive in getting it all over again and a gain. i received the baptisum .. one time... i received THE HOLY GHOST one time. mine is a pentecostal church. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1005 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.42.53 |
arron, But you said "He comes when we obey and ask Him." Doesn't the word 'comes' denote someone that was not already there? The opposite of 'comes' is 'goes', do you agree. In your belief, does the Holy Spirit come and go? Is He only with us when we obey? | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 542 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
i think godchild that you just hem and haw over words and ask questions about things that even a child could understand. i dont have much education and i know better than that. | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 191 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 210.212.241.130 |
Godchild, It's time for you to get a bigger garbage can! I have the experience, you have the theory. It's high time you get rid of all the filth, sure it stinks in God's nostrils. Get right with God, all things will be alright, sister. Ahem...you may have to swallow a mammoth of pride to do it. But with God's grace you can do it. God resist's the proud and gives grace to the humble. It's high time you make a burial ground. What do you want to do with devil's junk? My God! Don't even touch it, don't you see it's not in line with God's precious Word? The bible says, the Holy Spirit is given to them that obey. Obedience here is, obedience in salvation. Oh dear! I can help but laugh at the way you're trying to reject God's truth and trying to make sound as though it's bible. Don't you know the precious Holy SPirit? Oh He is real I tell ya! He can teache better than any evangelist. Ummm...even there you need to swallow pride and accept that He is the best teacher, and that you aren't self-sufficient. At last, read the Word of God. God is serious about His Word. Burn all those junk you carry and get the pure and infallible Word. Your explanation of the Word makes me laugh! LOL! But how sad. Do you know God disagrees with you regarding this matter? You're against His Word. What do you expect? Enjoy the Lord, and be blessed with the real Holy Spirit baptism with evidence of speaking in tongues. Oh it's a baptism of real power. You may have to forget about the pentacostals! They're like you, who have are stuck up in a denomination. I disagree much with Pentacostals and Baptists. You say you don't see any fruit of the Spirit in pentacostals. I don't see an ounce of God in you, what about that? You do well to judge others, judge yourself, sister. Your more wretched than you ever know. God is your only hope. Satan was cast out of heaven, because of pride, and so will you, if you don't repent. That's bible! Sid | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
Godchild, I can't afford to waste my time trying to explain verses you took out of context. What could I say, if a person takes an apple and says its an orange? What if he really is convinced, an apple is an orange! What if he knows that apple is not an orange, but still to prove his point, he says, "The apple has seeds, the apple is orange in color". Oh what do you call such a person? Mad? Hmm...no. Proud? Yes. Arrogant? Yes. Deceived? Oh yes! Sid | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1014 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.44.57 |
sid, get over yourself. You have deceived yourself into thinking I am posting for you, to you, or about you. You cannot get beyond the fact that I have a very loving relationship with the Lord without 'speaking in tongues'. I am not lacking in any good thing. We are equal in the eyes of God. I want people to know that. This is exactly what Paul was telling the church at Corinth. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 385 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Arron, and belongingtoJesus, it is falling on death ears. So keep standing up for God's word. Here is a verse to throw into the pot. I wonder why none of us used this verse with Godchild. Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1015 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.43.70 |
You have appointed yourselves my judge. You dare suggest I do not have the Holy Spirit in me. Jesus tells me as His Father loved Him, He also loves me, and I abide in Him. He says I am already clean because of the word which He has spoken to me. He has sent His Spirit to me to teach me and bring to my remembrance all that His Word says to me. My heart is not troubled, neither am I afraid. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 388 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Godchild who are you accusing. Make that clear. (Message edited by turtle on November 23, 2005) | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1016 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.41.144 |
Accusations and innuendos by cowards have been flying on these threads for a long time. I am reminded of those Jesus spoke of who 'whisper in other's ears'. You each give support to anyone because they agree about tongues. If there is darkness in your eye there is darkness in your heart. Jesus called them hypocrits. It is ludicrous to say that evidence of the Holy Spirit is only given through speaking in tongues. John the baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb. The Holy Spirit made possible the conception of our Lord and Savior. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and encouraged Mary. Simeon was filled with the Holy Spirit and proclaimed the child Messiah. The Holy Spirit descended like a dove on Jesus, indicating God's presence with Him. Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to demonstrate His obedience to the Father. Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit and His whole ministry was marked by the presence and power of God. And in Luke Jesus promised the The Father would give the Holy Spirit to those who asked. The Holy Spirit was given to Jew and Gentile. The Old Testament has nearly 80 references to the Spirit of God. With all of this scripture pentecostals have taken a few (in comparison) verses and twisted them, not only causing division amongst believers, but causing unbelievers to run away from the Lord instead of running to Him, and for what. For the sake of a few who will use show and display to separate, not unify, themselves from other believers; calling this the power of the Holy Spirit. Turtle even mocks the snake handlers, who only claim to do just what she does (works by the power of the Holy Spirit). Turtle, Sidharth, Arron: I name all of you. I stand on the Word of God. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1017 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.41.144 |
I suggest to you three that you reread some of the first posts on this site. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 389 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Godchild are you denying or have a response for the last verse I posted or not. What do you say about asking for the Holy Spirit. Only a believe could ask for it, only a child of God. So what do you think of the verse. Now in defense against snakehandler, One he did not believe in the Trinity, He was Jesus Only. Two he claimed that handle snakes was a sign. Two he desired signs of the Holy Spirit by picking up snakes and by drinking poison and playing with fire. I do none of these things. I shared one story how God used speaking in tongues through another person in my life with giving me also the interpetation. You distorted this saying I looked for the sign , i desired a sign. No I had no desire for proof of God but whether a church belong to Him. He has continue to do this in my life in this particular church because they teach straight biblical principals, seldom talk about speaking in tongues or the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They talk mainly about Jesus and salvation. But you choose to distort these facts just like you distort arrons words and belongingtoJesus words. YOu asked about tongues we gave you a pencostal view on them but you say we lie. So if we lie why dont' you move on and go find a board or a thread on this board that doesn't speak on tongues or the gifts of the HOly Spirit. And I don't just mean tongues but preaching, teaching, helps, prophecy, etc. Once you do nt believe in them. Fact do you believe in the catholic church(universal church) Not denomination. or are you out to prove all groups are false. You say you believe in Christ and that He died for you but you are not in a fellowship of believers. YOu have said you don't go to church. So do you even pray or worship God on your own. Are you able too. Please take a good look at that last verse I posted on my last statement what does it say. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1020 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.42.132 |
turtle, you seem to forget factnet is about exposing cults and sharing experiences in them or because of them. As you trump speaking in tongues, it is you who should go to another website. There are over 30 threads about pentecostalism. I didn't start any of them. Are you suggesting I compelled all these people to speak against pentecostalism. I am simply a Christian woman who shares the views of many other Christians. You are saying totally stupid things like I don't believe in teaching, helps, prophecy, etc., and whether I pray or worship on my own. I have not said one thing to suggest I do not. You are whistling into the wind. Do you tell everyone who doesn't believe 'speaking in tongues' is unnecessary for our day (I have never denied there was speaking in tongues during Biblical times), that you doubt whether they worship God or know how to pray to Him? By saying so even to me you prove my point that pentecostals separate themselves by suggesting they have something others do not. I have not been to all churches (denominations). I make a point to learn about what they teach before I join them. The universal church you speak of (I assume) is the original believers. Men, in their desire for power or wealth or whatever ulterior motive they had, began to take scripture and change it. I have no doubt many of them were well intentioned when they began. The definition of catholic (katholic) means universal. The Catholic church has placed men in godlike positions, infallible and unerring, a place the scriptures says is reserved for God. The same thing has happened in every denomination. Men following men (their teachings)and not God. Do I believe God would be pleased if I join them? No. Do I desire to be with believers? Yes. When I find them, I worship with them. Study the whole 11th chapter of Luke. Read the model prayer Christ told us to pray. There is nothing here that says "Give me gifts. Please give me gifts." The Father knows what is best for you, before you ask. Jesus chose the apostles, they did not plead for their places. If a friend comes at midnight and asks you for food to give your friend, and is persistent (asking more than once) the friend will get up and give him more than what he asked. These verses do not say we will get everything we ask for, the suggestion is we will receive what is spiritually beneficial. When I was a child, I did not ask my mother daily, "Mom, please dress me." "Mom, please feed me." She already knew these things. Though she loved me, when I asked for candy, and she didn't give it to me, it was because she didn't want my teeth to rot, or for me to get an upset stomach. She knew what was best for me. So, should we pray for gifts? We have the Holy Spirit. God knows what is best for us. Or is what we desire more important? God, as our Father, loves us so much that we can ask, over and over, but if we are mature, we trust Him for what is best for us, because with our knowledge comes understanding. We trust that He will give us greater gifts. Gifts of His choosing, not ours. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 392 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Godchild there are cults in the pencostal church i have seen one but there are cults in every denomination. I have repeatly told you you did not have to speak in tongues to have the Holy Spirit but you twist and say what you think people say. I think you do it not just to pencostal people but to alot of people. YOu said you were not in a church on a thread, so my question is what do you do for fellowship. Do you get spiritual growth outside your own study. What authority by which do you speak. If you are not in a church how can you know what goes on. If you haven't been to mind you can't prove what you say. There are several types of prays in the bible. Here is a list of several types of prays. 1. Adoration 2. thanksgiving 2. supplication 4. intercessory 5. petition Christ in the model pray shows each type. But in the verse i asked you to read it was talking aobut God giving good gifts. And one of the gifts if we ask is for the Holy Spirit. Why would Christ tell us to ask for the Holy Spirit if he did not mean for us to ask for Him. I was taught through a southern baptist church to ask for the infilling. This type of baptist that i mentioned is not pencostal at all or not the ones I attended. The infilling and baptizism is the same thing. In Acts it says filling and not baptizism. The word filling is used quite a bit. If I say the infilling of the HOly Spirit does this make sense to you. And if it does does it make sense why I do not say one must always speak in tongues. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1026 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.248 |
turtle, I spent a good part of my afternoon reading an interesting article. (It didn't have anything to do with the pentecostal church). It was about how careful we must be in interpreting the scriptures. Some verses seem conflicting but if we read them in the context of the book, we can be sure of not being led into false doctrine. Also, we must look for the main point in a passage. Let me give you an example: (I will use the author's words as he explains this in a way that may make it easier to understand). "Leaven". (the substance that causes bread to rise in baking or to help wine to ferment in the bottle). In the majority of places in the New Testament, we find that "leaven" is something that symbolically is close in meaning to the word "sin" or "evil". Yet there is one section of the scriptures in which Jesus used it in a contrary sense within a context that exemplifies good and righteousness. Look at Matthew 13:33. "Another parable put He (Jesus) forth unto them, saying, the Kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and his in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." In this parable we find the symbol of "leaven" used precisely opposite of what it normally signifies in the other parts of the New Testament. Indeed, there are no commentators who believe that Christ was saying that the Kingdom of Heaven would finally become exceedingly sinful and unrighteous when it becomes fully leavened. All interpreters rightly understand that Jesus meant something else. What do you think it was? This indicates that God can even present opposite meanings to symbols if he so desires. Caution must be used. Then this man speaks about statements in the Bible that are positioned alongside one another where one statement teaches the exact opposite of what the other statement says? When you see such things, the normal reaction is to question which statement is correct since they both present diametrically opposite teachings? Proverbs 26:4-5 "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." With... "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." Both statements are 100% percent accurate, though the wordage in those two statements clearly shows opposite teachings. I can give you other examples if you like. We must take the scriptures in the context it was intended. The way we can do that is to study the Bible ourselves and not take for granted that a teacher has the correct interpretation. I saw this happen often in the cult church I attended. People were not expected to ask questions, but to accept what they were being taught. I am too inquisitive for that. I want to study for myself. And I love a good sermon. The Bible tells us the more we get into the Word, the closer we will become to God. I have tried to explain that pentecostals have taken 'speaking in tongues' to be the main point of Acts and Corinthians. If each person will study it the main lesson is that the gospel was then made available to the Gentiles. Please go and ask others about this. We, as Gentiles, should be so thankful because without this what would we have. Which is more important? What is the most important thing that God has given you? Is it your healing or your salvation? Has your speaking in tongues led any to Christ (outside your church)? You asked by what authority I speak. By what authority do you speak? Why does it matter to you how many people I fellowship with? Do I need others with me to read the Word or pray? I have good Christian neighbors and friends. Why do you continue to ignore 2 Timothy 3:16 where it says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man/woman of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." I am not the one claiming to be a preacher and teacher. John the baptist lived in the wilderness for years before he began his mission. I think this was so that he wouldn't be corrupted by men. How do you think he got his authority? I know what baptism and infilling mean. What do you think Jesus meant when He said, "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled. But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am til it is accomplished." Luke 12:49 And what does Jesus mean when He said, "Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice that your names are written in heaven." If you say one must not (be required to) speak in tongues, I would agree. But you said "I do not say one must always speak in tongues." | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1027 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.47.248 |
I want to share something, not to brag, but as an example of the power of God in my life. My brother-in-law had never gone to church in his life, not even to be married. When my husband died, God had His hand on me and I experienced the Holy Spirit as never before. After watching me and seeing the grace God bestowed on me by the Holy Spirit, my sister came to me to talk about it. She said her husband told her, "Now I believe in God." Not because of me, but because he had seen the Holy Spirit in me. Praise God! | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 210.212.241.130 |
Godchild, Now you say, you are very open to the Scriptures let's see whether what you claim is according to the Scriptures. When the Holy Spirit made His abode in me, He made it evident by my new ability to love God and people in ways I was never able to before, and to finally truly understand His love for me. The Holy Spirit starts His work on believers from very moment they accept Jesus as their Savior. The disciples on Resurrection morn became born again, for Jesus breathed over them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit"(John20:22). Did the Holy Spirit make His abode in the disciples during this time? Let us examine the Scriptures: What did Jesus tell the disciples about the Holy Spirit before His crucifixion and resurrection? And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.(John 14:16,17) Points: (1) Jesus tells the disciples that He would pray to the Father for another Comforter, the Holy Spirit. When Jesus prayed to the Father , the Father obviously promised to send the Holy Spirit, as a Comforter to make His abode in His disciples forever. Therefore the Holy Spirit is Himself, the Promise of the Father. (2) The purpose Jesus said the Father would send the Holy Spirit was that He might abide with them forever. (3) Jesus says, the Holy Spirit is not for the world, but for those who believe in Him. (4) Now Jesus makes the difference between the Holy Spirit being with them , and the Holy Spirit being IN them. The Holy Spirit didnot make His dwelling IN the disciples on resurrection morn, for the following reasons: (1) Jesus said the Holy Spirit wouldnot come until He departed(John 16:7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (2) Jesus said , He would send the Holy Spirit to the disciples from the Father. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me(John 15:26) Obviously, to send something the recipient has to be away from the sender. On resurrection morn, Jesus didnot SEND the Holy Spirit, He just breathed over them. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to dwell IN the disciples only after He ascended to heaven and sat down at the right hand of the Father, and that was on the Day of Pentacost. (3) Jesus asked the disciples to wait for the promise after the Father on the last day with them in Bethany. This was after what happened on the resurrection morn. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.(Luke 24:49) You may debate that the Holy Spirit is not the promise of the Father. However, in Act 1:4,5 Jesus tells the disciples "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." This is speaking about the baptism with/in the Holy Spirit. Jesus asked the disciples to wait for this experience. For your information, no one else before the Day of Pentacost had received the Holy Spirit baptism. The Holy Spirit baptism, is the PERMANENT indwelling of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Before the Day of Pentacost, the Holy Spirit would come on people and go as in the Old Testament, but never till then did the Holy Spirit make His permanent indwelling in human beings. The Holy Spirit is referred to as a 'gift' and the promise of the Father, which Jesus had spoken to the disciples in John 14, 15 and 16. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.(Actb 1:8) Jesus tells the disciples to wait for this promise in Jerusalem, and told them that when the Holy Spirit would come on them, they would receive power for service. In other words, they were commanded not to start the work of God without the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It would be wrong to say the disciples weren't saved till now, because the bible says the disciples on resurrection more received the Holy Spirit, though not as a Person. The Holy Spirit in the bible is both mentioned as personal and impersonal. We see this in Romans 8:10, And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. The Spirit is life because of righteousness. In other words, the human spirit is made alive at the time of the new-birth, and the person has the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is the attribute of God, brought about by the Holy Spirit in an individual. This is however different from the Holy Spirit baptism, for which the disciples were asked to wait for. The Person of the Holy Spirit came to dwell in believers only on the Day of Pentacost. You said your standard is the Bible. So lets look into bible and not personal experiences: FIRST, lets look at Act 2. The disciples here waited for this promise of the Father, the Holy Spirit for 10 days and on the 10th day, that is 50th day after the Passover, the Holy Spirit descended on the disciples and they spoke in tongues. What does Peter say about what happened? "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear."(Act2 :33) Only after being exalted to the right hand of God, did Jesus receive from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit. (Remember, Jesus said He had to depart from the disciples so as to send the Holy Spirit). Peter relates what happened , to the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father. Next this experience was mentioned in Act 8 in Samaria. Here we see the Samarians including the sorceror Simon, believes in the Gospel, and are baptized in water(Act8:12). I hope you don't disagree these disciples were born again. Yet, the bible says, they hadn't received the Holy Spirit till then. "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost  For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."( Acts 8: 14-17) On hearing that the Samarians had received the word of God, Peter and John came to them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. Why lay on hands to receive the Holy Spirit, if they had already received the Holy Spirit at the time of new-birth? However, the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit is not mentioned, but we know it is was a visible manifestation and an unusual one, because Simon offered Peter and John money that He might have this gift of calling down the Holy Spirit on people, for which he was strongly rebuked. And when Simon SAW that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money(Act 8: 18) The next place where this incident is mentioned is Act 9, where Paul who met with Jesus in Damascus, obviously was saved, but hadn't received the Holy Spirit until Ananias came and prayed for him. Even, here the evidence is not mentioned, but we realize the evidence is speaking in tongues, for Paul says later that he spoke in tongues more than others(1 Corinthians 14:18) In Act 10: 44-48, we find salvation and the Holy Spirit baptism being offered to the Gentiles as well. God dealt with Peter and he went to Cornellius house, and Cornellius heard the word of God and believed, and received the Holy Spirit even while he heard the word of God. Now how did the apostle know that Cornellius and all his household had received the Holy Spirit? Was it love in them? No obviously love was not evidence. They knew the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit FOR they spoke in tongues. "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost FOR they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God."(Act 10:45,46) In Act 19:1-6, Paul comes across a group of disciples which he mistakes as the disciples of Jesus, but seeing the lack of power in their lives asks them, "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? ". The result of the receiving the Holy Spirit is a life of power(Act1:8), which obviously these disciples lacked. However, to Paul's question they answer and say, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." These disciples hadn't even heard about the Holy Spirit. However, who ever is baptized according to the Christian baptism(i.e. in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:20), would surely have heard the name 'Holy Spirit' , being mentioned as they were baptized in water. We know Paul meant this, for the next question he asks them is, "Unto what then were ye baptized?" They reply, "John's baptism". Now Paul realizes, these were not Jesus' disciples, but John the baptist's disciples. Now Paul preaches Jesus to these 12 men and they get baptized in water in Jesus name. However only after Paul placed huis hands on them did they receive the Holy Spirit, and the evidence was speaking in tongues. When I take what you say to the BIBLE, it doesnot match. Either you think this is Pentacostal doctrine, and accuse me of being a Pentacostal, or you know the truth and you're trying to stand to what you believe, rather than accept the fact that what you said is not according to God's Word. I had much love, joy and peace the time I got saved, but when I received the Holy Spirit later, I spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave me utterance. If you don't have the evidence that you got wet when you were baptized in water, you weren't baptized in water. Likewise, if you haven't spoken in tongues, you don't have the Holy Spirit baptism. Laughable, when you say you don't belong to any denomination and still adhere to the Baptist faith, as Billy Graham does. I disagree strongly with Pentacostals in many many areas. My standard is the Word of God. In that sense I disagree much with Charismatics as well. The baptists have stopped short with salvation, instead of throwing off their denominational doctrines and moving for God. Sad, you are so stiff-necked. The Church of Jesus Christ needs the Holy Spirit baptism. God is serious about this in this final hour. You said, Pentacostals have no fruit of the Spirit. As if you have seen all Pentacostals in the world! I have seen people from almost all denominations and have seen wonderful people of God in all denominations. Most of the Pentacostals are a lot fanatic, but yet they believe in the baptism in the Spirit, for which I am happy they obeyed the Lord in that, and God confirms what they preach by baptizing people in the Holy Spirit, with the bible evidence, the same evidence the apostles and the early disciples looked for: speaking in tongues. Sidharth | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1028 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.42.148 |
sid, I've heard all your arguments before. Did I say pentecostals have no fruit of the Spirit? What I say is the fruit of the Holy Spirit is not contingent on speaking in tongues. I don't think pentecostals (or you) are evil, but are being deceived. It is you who say "Most of the Pentacostals are a lot fanatic, but yet they believe in the baptism in the Spirit." That might not tell you anything, but it sure does me. (God accepts fanatics, as long as they speak in tongues.) Heaven forbid! Most of the verses you quote involve the Jews. When the Gentiles believed, they received the Holy Spirit and all the promises of God by adoption. Laughable that you say you are not pentecostal, yet you adhere to their faith. You say baptists have stopped short of salvation. Okay, judge sid. You have just admitted you believe speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation. Liar and hypocrit. You have made assumptions. You admit in 1 Cor.14:18 the evidence is not mentioned. Then you assume because Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all of them, this confirms your assumption. This is ridiculous as Paul explained he would rather use five (5) words of prophesy than ten-thousand (10,000) in tongues. He spoke in tongues (other languages) when necessary, not to show the people he had the power of the Holy Spirit. He said he was chosen to prophesy, to spread the gospel, and even said he was glad he seldom baptized. You don't want to understand. You want what you believe is power. I think you consider yourself a guru, not a disciple (a servant) of Christ. Finally, you said Love was not evidence. You teach blasphemy. Paul said the greatest, as Jesus Christ commanded, was LOVE. Your idea that the apostles and disciples looked for speaking in tongues is absolutely insane!!!!!! You go on with your blabbering, blithering, idiotic belief. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 399 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Godchild, I never claim that speaking in tongues was the only initial evidence. And this is where some pentecostal will differ with me. But even if you talk to pencostal ministers you will find variations on this. Some are firm with out tongues you didn't receive the Baptizism. But the word clearly says if you ask you receive. Like when a christian gets saved he ask Christ in. He or she might say I feel nothing. Did anything happen. yes if they were sincere in there hearts they were saved. Feelings should never be before what the word says. But our emotions should be because of wht the word says. Godchild where did you get the idea i felt you must speak in tongues. I have never said that. I even declare that several times I believe. You don't have to speak in tongues to have the Power of God working in your life. But there should be fruits of the spirit in your life to say that there is. But not all people of good deeds is evidence of the Spirit. Only God knows the true human heart(motives). | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1029 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.46.181 |
turtle, I'm happy to see you have cleared that up. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 402 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Godchild I have been saying it all along even on the tongue thread that very thing. So I wonder what have I really cleared up for you???? | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
I never ever said, speaking in tongues is required for salvation. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit of truth. You are a fanatic, does that mean God doesnt accept you? Who is a fanatic? One who goes beyond God and makes interpretations of their own. The evidence for the Holy Spirit baptism is not love. Love is evidence of being a born-again Christian, which is entirely different from the Holy Spirit baptism. Oh so Jews and Gentiles are different when it comes to salvation? The bible says God does not discriminate between Jews and Gentiles when it comes to salvation. Whether it be Jews or Gentile, there's only one way to Salvation and that is Jesus Christ. Whether Jew or Gentile, there is one baptism in water and one baptism in the Spirit. Do you realize Luke was not a Jewish Doctor? Do you realize those at Cornelius Household spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? Do you realize the Samarians, who are NOT Jews spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? Do you realize Ephesians who are NOT Jews spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? You think you can speak anything you want? Who is trying bluff here? You or me? Who twisted Scriptures in regard to corruption and said corruption in 1 Cor 15, is sin. While the original Greek translation means , that which is perishable. Who bluffed and said, those who sin will die, ignoring the fact that believers who would be alive would be raptured? Who lied and said that , you were not an adherent to the Baptist faith, when you were brought up in that? How dare you accuse me of being a Pentacostal, when you know that I come from a idu background? I have no connection with any denomination whatsoever. You claim to have love? Where is it? All I can feel is hatred and pure disrespect to God's Word. True love rejoices when the truth is preached. No use trying to talk to you. You hate being corrected, and want to always prove yourself correct. If I am wrong I will accept, because my eyes are not on myself but on God and His Word. What I have said is absolutely according to the Scriptures. Where in the Bible does it say, the Holy Spirit baptism was ONLY for the JEWS??? STop right here. Repent of this wickedness and don't deceive yourself. Be truthful, Godchild. The Spirit saith that you have hidden much to prove your part. You can't agree with the Bible unless you love the Lord. Sidharth | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 580 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
no where does it teach that THE HOLY GHOST baptisum is only for the jews. but it is for the church. all who ask shall receive the baptisum, with the evidence of tongues, giving power to them. this is all after they are saved. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1038 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.45.49 |
sidharth, what is wrong with you? I did not say the baptism of the Holy Spirit was only for the Jews. Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit immediately (as part of) when we believe. Some gentiles spoke in tongues in order for the Jews to SEE they also are accepted by their God. Jesus said many times the "Jews require a sign". God used this for HIS purposes, showing that all men can be unified. The Jews thought God was only for them. Languages separated people just as it did at the tower of Babel. Writing is another form of communication. The written Gospels were not available (written) at that time. They had to communicate with their languages, with their tongues. Even the Old Testament was only available to the Jews by the priests teaching (by speech) it to them. Paul distinctly said, "whether there are tongues, they will cease". He does not go on to say "they will cease when that which is perfect has come." He says, "But......" He went on to say, "Now I know in part, but then I will know just as I am known." He already experienced, understood the gifts. He says 'then I will know...'. There are other things he and we will know, because even he did not know what it will be like until we are in God's presence face to face. As for corruption and sin. There was no sin in Jesus, "He was raised in incorruption." Adam, by transgressing God law, brought sin and death, (corruption) into the world. Our mortal bodies will perish. We will be changed in an instant. These bodies we are in now are not immortal, but must be changed, when He comes again. Jesus conquered death. The perishable becomes unperishable. If you believe I am baptist because I went to baptist churches as a child, I was also a mormon for many years. Does this mean I am still mormon? Are you still 'idu'? Don't be absurd. That would be like saying, "once unsaved, always unsaved." But then, have it your way. Be very careful when you say, "But the Spirit sayeth". | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1039 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.45.49 |
Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. 2 Peter 2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 415 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
Godchild on another board I believe you did. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1040 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.42.219 |
You need to understand the context. On the day of Pentecost, there were only Jews attending. Why would Gentiles come (especially because of the thoughts from Jews toward them) to a Jewish traditional gathering? The Jews didn't accept Gentiles until Peter had his vision. There were a few Gentiles that followed Jesus, but the Jews didn't accept them anymore than they accepted that Jesus was the Messiah. When the Bible says 'the Jews' it doesn't mean every single person, but as a nation. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 660 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
hey turtle... you and i are famous according to not | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
Has knowledge vanished? Have prophecies failed? Then tongues have not ceased in this world either. Tongues will cease when we get to heaven where love is perfect. We won't need prophecies to exhort us, nor knowledge because we will know fully just as we are known. Deceived and deceiving others, huh? Paul never meant tongues would cease, if it were so then 1 Corinthians 14 should be eliminated. Paul would never instruct believers to "pray in the spirit" , if tongues would cease. The bible is crystal clear that when one who "speaks in tongues , he speaks to God and not to men." However, when interpreted it is a gift that will "profit withal". At cornellius house, the Jews didnot speak in tongues for Cornellius and his household to understand, but the Cornellius and all his household spoke in tongues. I find no basis in the bible that tells me tongues has ceased. I have but bible-experiences that it still exists and it's according to the Scriptures , more than you what you believe. In Ephesus, the people received the Holy Spirit and they spoke in tongues. Paul already preached to them in their own tongue and there was no reason to preach in another tongue. They spoke in tongues signifying the Holy Spirit had come. Where is all that you explained, in the bible? You have isolated many scriptures and given your interpetations. You don't know what Hindu's believe in and that's why you speak ill of me. You are a strong adherant to your baptist denomination, whether you are aware of it or not. Sidharth | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 196 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
NOT, Stop abusing Arron. You have come to place where you believe people can't live free from sinful lives. You think people cant live without masturbating and on lustful pleasures. You are a captive to those and that's the reason you condemn Arron so much. The Spirit saith you have 19 unclean spirits within you, if you want them cast out, they can be cast out. I don't know what the struggle you're going through, but there is something in you that you don;t want to do and still end up doing. I know how it is to be bound, but I know how it is to be free as well. Seek God and He will deliver you from demon possession. Sidharth | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1087 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.43.152 |
not, why in the world would you give someone you dislike your email address. That's a terrible accusation. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1088 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.43.152 |
sid, What have you got against the Baptist Church? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1089 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.43.152 |
Not only that, I have not seen one new prophesy given by any tongue-speaker. Name one! There should be thousands according to the tongue-speakers. Put up or shut up. | ||
| rachelengland (rachelengland) Advanced Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 675 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.128.222.206 |
never give your email to hot girls cuz strange boys may pick it up instead-godchild I'm a puritan a quaker at heart Aaron I was being funny I don't think your strange-we just all have to be careful.. (Message edited by rachelengland on December 02, 2005) | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1094 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.40.185 |
Sorry, not. I didn't understand. Have you complained to the 'ghost in the machine yet'? I would in a minute. rachel, That's cool. I think that is what Friend is, though I could be confusing the two. I like his posts. Very soothing. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 679 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
not...you wrote on dec 1 that i had your email addres????? well i dont i have never written anything to you at you email address what ever it is. i dont do that i have never even seen your email address. so dont go accuseing me of something i am not guilty of. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 680 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
to rachelengland... if you were referring to me by strange boyz.. you are wrong i do not have nots email address nor do i want it. i am not strange or werid either. i am a christian regardless of any one belief. before one is accused of something .. one better have proff, more than just hear say. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Intermediate Member Username: turtle Post Number: 460 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 151.199.115.125 |
NOT, Being a Christian does not mean you are perfect, if means you follow Christ. It means He has made you righteous through the shed blood on the cross. In simple words he has made you clean. Free of sin. Doesn't mean you do not make mistake but means you except what Christ did for you. Then you try and live like Christ did, with His help you can. | ||
| rachelengland (rachelengland) Advanced Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 700 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.67 |
aaron it was a joke I do NOT think your strange in anyway in fact you are the kind of man I would protect-but you all keep going around in the same circle here no it's a cult yes it's a cult so I had to add a little flava flav to the conversation...I'll change what I wrote | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 681 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
rachelengland.. but see i do not know nots email add. in fact i have never seen it anywhere and if i did i would not write to him/her for i dont even know what they are man or woman. i will write ghost in the machine and tell them about her if she writes. for you do have to have proof of something like that. thanks any way bless you | ||
| rachelengland (rachelengland) Advanced Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 702 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.67 |
arron don't sweat it I know what's going on- I'm not a fool someone else must of picked up his email and maybe they are pretending to be you-anyway thank you for your blessing-aaron we all believe what we want we just have to have patience Nots a cool dude I don't want to see anyone leave it's my goal to unite everyone and then have a big bash at my house I have a lot of land but its byob because i don't drink and either do you-rachelengland | ||
| rachelengland (rachelengland) Advanced Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 706 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.118 |
Not anyone who couln't tell you were a man is off a little bit-have a good weekend and keep that idea open for a factnet reunion wouldn't you love to see what people look like and wouldn't you love to give aaron and turtle a big hug | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 683 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
well it looks like turtle has gone. i will trully miss her shae gave no reason why. she had on another thread...that that was her last post. she was a wonderful person, a fine christian and preacher. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 684 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
rachelengland... well it looks as if a few others and my self will be the only defenders of the pentecostal faith. i will never change. i cant be wishy washy. i must remain true to my convictions that it is right. it hurts when one is called different thing i have been called but still i will remain firm. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 691 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
hey rachel can you tell me why some get on here (who are not pentecostal) and down every one whos and call them names say they are not saved? i am not talking about those who express their beliefs different from mine for i love to hear their views too but they dont have to say i or others are not saved | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1123 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.40.206 |
arron, Your strength is in the Lord. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 697 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
yes truly HE is my strength. i love HIM. it does hurt when people come out against one denom. like some do and say we are not saved bevause of what we believe. i should not let it worry me and i dont but it still hurts. | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 248 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.144.5.87 |
I have nothing against the Baptist Church. I have wonderful Baptists friends, who honor God's Word. Yet, I must be frank when it comes to the Word of God that neither the Pentacostals nor the Baptists have the whole truth. Pentacostal's believe in the Holy Spirit baptism, which the Lord commanded the disciples the tarry for, while Baptist's don't. That's the only thing I disagree with the Baptist's. The other foundational doctrines I believe in are same as the Baptists. I believe salvation through the shed blood of Jesus, I believe in Water Baptism by immersion in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe in resurrection from the dead and eternal judgment. However, lately I came across an astonishing truth that the Southern Baptist evangelist, Billy Graham , doesn't believe in an literal eternal hell and that he believes there are other ways to heaven. I guess Mr. Graham has deviated from the faith, and can't be any longer included in the Baptist List. However, the apostles were asked not even to start the church without this Spirit baptism. God has placed highest priority on this among born-again Christians. The Lord told me, "I have not ordained anyone to preach My gospel without My fire.". I know , no matter how much I try to tell you, you will never accept it, because you are bent on it. But I rest my hands knowing that it is His gospel, and all He has asked me to do is speak the truth , and He will work. God can't move in great ways in the lives of those people who will not accept His truth. I have nothing what soever against any denomination. I despise false teachings and false doctrines. I despise teachings that say you don't need the Spirit baptism any more, and all that got over with the early apostles. In that case I'll have to discard a big portion of the bible as History and N/A for this generation. However, the whole New Testament is for all Christians of all generations. If the Word of God needed to be confirmed then, it surely needs to be confirmed in this last hour. No arguments, that's just Bible, and it's beyond debate. Sidharth | ||
| godchild (godchild) Senior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 1245 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.255.42.205 |
Poor Sid, You can't seem to make up your mind. I am not here to antagonise you or anyone else. I have said before I am not a Baptist. I do not belong to any denomination. The last time I attended a Baptist service was in 1970-71. When I do attend church services, I choose non-denominational ones for reasons I have stated before. The Holy Bible is very real to me. It is my foundation as the Holy Spirit guides me. I wish you would do further studies of the works of the Holy Spirit. Might I suggest 1 Samuel 19. God has been at work since time began. Jesus is God. I did not say I prophesy. I leave God's decisions for my life to God through His Holy Spirit. I am truly blessed. Yesterday, you used my statements twice as your own on these threads. I do not mind. I am pleased that you share. God works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform. | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 252 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 210.212.241.130 |
Laughable. Do you know you are not the Holy Spirit? Well, you told me that you were a Baptist and a Mormon long time back. However, you accuse me of being a Pentacostal, when I've never ever been part of such a denomination. I go to a strictly non-denominational Church. But I don't just got there, I also go to Baptist's Churches, Pentacostal Churches, Charismatic churches, and so forth. As for me, all who are washed by the blood are part of Jesus' body. I didn't attend a church nor did I listen to any preacher the first 8 years after I had a personal encounter with the Lord Jesus in my room. My hearts cry was, "Whoever is the true God I want to know you.". I was isolated from others, because I was undergoing chemotherapy for the cancer that struck my body. In my room I had a vision of Jesus and later I realized I was healed of cancer. I had a Good News Bible with me(though very inaccurate), one which I got from my school(I studied in a traditional Christian school). The Lord embraced me and taught me His Word through His Spirit, knowing I had no other source or teacher to explain me His Word. I was of age 9 then, but the Lord made things simple. I thank God I was born in a hindu family, because I find most Christians taken up by familiarity. I didn't know God could be so real. I would just shut up in my room just to be with the Lord, and the Lord would feed me His Word. Godchild, you don't know the Holy Spirit personally that's why you're acting so religious. The Holy Spirit has been in work in all generations, but this is His crowning hour. He is on planet earth in Person, just as Jesus was in Person. If you have experienced the born-again experience, I can tell you that it is the most remarkable experience an unbeliever can have. Many claim to be saved, but in actuality they are just professing Christians. After salvation, God offers an remarkable experience that can bring power to your life for His glory. Jesus commanded His disciples to receive the Holy SPirit, and no where in the book of Acts do we see Christians ceasing to receive the SPirit as a separate experience to that to salvation. The bible mentions Spirit baptism as a different experience than salvation. Good that you are blessed, but there is more to God than what you know. God has a supernatural baptism in His Spirit, and if you don't want it , God won't force you. But please don't hinder others from receiving this baptism. I'm ashamed of you claiming to be a Christian and not showing any of the fruit of the SPirit. Sidharth | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Intermediate Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 255 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
"Yesterday, you used my statements twice as your own on these threads. I do not mind." I used your statements?? I don't even think you're led by the Spirit, then why would I use your statement? Sidharth | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 899 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
i was saved in the baptist church but after i saw there was more ffor me i went to the pentecostals and have been there and have enjoyed my life there. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 993 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
praise GOD i do love the real religion pentecostal, but salvation is a differeent part. salvation is when we are saved by faith in JESUS |
