| Author |
Message |
    
spike (spike)
New member
Username: spike
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.87.110
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 4:12 pm: | 
|
He has been charged in IP, Hyannis, and Dorchester-all are to go to jury trial. I have also heard they are doing the same in Groton.
Personally, he is hanging in there-Winston Churchill said "If you are going through hell, keep going." And that is what he is doing. He will have to sell his home to pay for the legal costs but he will fight for his innocence.
On another note, Batach is getting unsupervised overnight visits with the boys-how often do you think that is allowed. She also says if she gets custody of the kids she will live in her own 3 bedroom apartment-thats what she tells DSS. This seems preposterous to me-what do you all think? Why is she getting all this special treatment now (she has been escoted to court by swantko/wiseman) but in the beginning she made no attempts to see/visit/talk to her children for over 18 months?
Something is very fishy but will take time and money to dissemnate. |
doug (doug)
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.111.133.207
| | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 8:47 pm: |
|
Unsupervised overnight visits are usually every other weekend and alternating holidays and sometimes half the summer or two weeks in the summer |
andy_n (andy_n)
Member
Username: andy_n
Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 4.157.38.247
| | Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 1:05 am: |
|
Important questions:
Why would Batach after 18 months of either psychological dysfunction in not pursuing contact with her children or in a very scriptural "letting go and letting God", suddenly (on the urging of Swanko?) file for custody in 4 courts?
Why would the tribes break their communal unity IN ONLY THIS single parent case to allow Batach to have her own apartment?
Why are they so intent on playing the game by and through the system IN THIS single parent case, and fighting the system when it suits their purposes?
Who said "be ye in the world, but not of it", and "no-one can serve two masters"? yet who must they rise before and acknowledge as master in a court of law?
And lessee, it was Joseph who went to jail rather than bow to the wiles of Potiphar's wife; it was Moses who refused to bow before pharaoh, Shadrach, Mishach and Abednigo who were cast into the furnace for not acknoledging another authority, Daniel who was thrown to the lions, and Mordichi, and Samuel, Elijah, and Elisha, and ..... who didn't bow or rise for any other authority. So, what example are they following?
Why are they doing their best to hound and bankrupt a man, when the Scripture they supposedly follow tells them to love their enemies, to do good to those who hate them and despitefully use them?
Who was it who said "vengeance is mine"?
When someone makes a big deal out of following Messiah (the way, the truth and the life), making all sorts of claims just as the churches of the nations do about being the 'right(eous) ones', who say they put their full trust in their Abba YHVH, yet put extraordinary efforts, resources and trust into the courts, and produces fruits of lies and hate and vengeance to accomplish their ends, who does it say they are really serving???
Who was it who said "by their fruits shall you know them"?
Is this the kind of fruit you'd expect of "the righteous ones of God"?
(Message edited by andy_n on July 31, 2005) |
ex_yathed (ex_yathed)
Senior Member
Username: ex_yathed
Post Number: 1225
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.168.65.103
| | Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 1:49 am: |
|
Well said Andy... |
shannon (shannon)
New member
Username: shannon
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 70.17.143.55
| | Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 8:29 am: |
|
very fishy indeed....if anyone is in contact with him, please tell him I am praying for them all. |
spike (spike)
New member
Username: spike
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.87.110
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 6:15 pm: |
|
Thank you Shannon. And Andy of course as usual has stated the arguement quite eloquently. I will see him tonight and pass on the prayers. The bad news on top of this is that DSS did not return the children to JT's mom after this last weekend visit. We are afraid Batach will file for emergency custody (because they are in foster care) and win temporary custody. Because no one has filed abuse claims against Batach, DSS is taking her at face value. She has presented herself as part of the tribes but independent in the fact that they will provide her with her own home for them in order to gain custody. Even if that is ture-how long will it last before they move her and the children? Before other elders step in to help her raise/discipline the children? |
ex_yathed (ex_yathed)
Senior Member
Username: ex_yathed
Post Number: 1236
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.168.65.103
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 7:33 pm: |
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Here is a email conversation Spike and I had. If anyone is interested in helping with this matter, please email her at zane_jaden@yahoo.com
spike wrote:
> Dear David,
> DSS has given Batach unsupervised visits. They are
> under the impression she will have her own home
> (maybe
> in Ayer or Groton) if she gets custody of the kids.
> This all seems impossible under the codes in which
> all
> other TT members live. Why are they giving her
> special treatment? I am trying to get DSS out here
> to
> understand that she does and will be living with the
> tribes and even though she says she has her own
> space
> for them now, we know that will not be the case if
> she
> gets custody.
> Is there anyone out there that could attest to the
> abuse that the children will be subject to if they
> are
> returned to the TT? Anyone who has lived with her or
> in the same community that may be sympathetic to the
> trauma the children are going through?
> She has given herr address as the Dorchester
> community
> and we believe she has been taking the boys to
> Groton.
> Any help would be appreciated. Yonathon and Nethan
> are suffering tremendously.
> Thank You,
> Kara
> --- David Pike wrote:
> Kara, When it comes to this caes, I dont know what
> to believe. I dont know if there was sexual abuse or
> not. I know no one involved in this so I have no
> first hand knowledge. Im sorry but I must bow out of
> this case. I wish you well on your endeavors...
>
>
> Your friend,
> David
>
>
> PS But I will post something asking for help on
> fact net if you desire. I also can bring it up on
> the exTT site if you wish. Let me know...
> _spike wrote:
yes-anything would be great. With regards to
believing one side or the other that is the for the
courts to decide I just want to help his children have
a safe, healthy and happy childhood.
Thanks again,
Kara |
shannon (shannon)
New member
Username: shannon
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 70.17.136.57
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 7:49 am: |
|
spike-would ya email me? my3fireflies@yahoo.com thanks |
shannon (shannon)
New member
Username: shannon
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 151.203.187.126
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 6:05 pm: |
|
spike-are you the one who emailed me with an update today? Did you see him and tell him that I am praying for him and the boys? please-if you are NOT the person who wrote to me today-would you please please email me?
thank you. |
shannon (shannon)
New member
Username: shannon
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 151.203.145.88
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:02 pm: |
|
anything new? |
spike (spike)
New member
Username: spike
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.87.110
| | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
|
The investigation in Dorchester has the DA wanting JT to plea bargain to reduced charge of assault and battery (he admited to physically disciplining the children-even though that is prescribed by the tribes)and the charges of sexual assault will be dropped. Others are still on hold pending investigations/fact finding to go to trial.
This is only one piece- for his life with his children (and his close friends and family) is also on hold until the criminal charges are taken care of (conditons of release require he have no contact with children under 16 even in the company of other adults so this precludes him having any contact with the strong family community with which he had ties before this began-his support system is almost non-existant unless one of us gets a baby-sitter)
We are all praying for JT's boys whose lives have been torn apart. May they all find healing soon. |
nosila (nosila)
New member
Username: nosila
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.163.191.99
| | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:55 am: |
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ok im a long time friend to the community in boston. long time reader here 1st time poster. i know batach and the children. I know of the situation, but i dont know in depth details. my own children have played with nathan and yonathan, on occasion this past summer. Im not sure what has happened with the father, i knew he left the tribes, beyond the kids living with the grandmother , thats all i know. i have never seen her children abused in any way shape or form, they are kinda wild, for being semi tribe kids  maybe due from living amongst worldly people.. i hope for the best for her and the kids
peace |
spike (spike)
New member
Username: spike
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.87.110
| | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 1:55 pm: |
|
Batach gave up her children and had no contact with them for 2 years. JT was the sole care giver to those boys. He was the one who stayed up with them when they were sick, who changed their diapers, potty-trained them, helped them learn about the world without physically disciplining them, involved them in a community of good people who raise their children to be thoughtful, considerate people without force, doctrine, or guilt but being good for goodness sakes.
I am glad she wants to be a part of their life, she should have never left them. The boys need a mother. But they need their father too. He is the only family those boys have ever known. And as for their behavior, they must be terribly frightened by the sudden disruption in their lives. My boys were best friends (they would spend 6 out of 7 days together, romping in the woods, building forts) with them and ask about them all the time-the social worker won't even plan a play date. I thought all this was supposed to be in the best interest of the children. All DSS is doing is punishing them. |
spike (spike)
New member
Username: spike
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.87.110
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 9:49 am: |
|
Batach was granted full custody because of the criminal charges still pending against JT. She lied to DSS and said she was living apart from the TT. Nosila (alison?) said she has been in Boston. If you talk to Batach, please tell her Nethan and Yonathon's friends miss them dearly and would love to meet them at the park or meet for a play date. Even if we cannot be near them all the time would like them to know our love. |
nosila (nosila)
New member
Username: nosila
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.163.191.99
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 12:32 pm: |
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hey if i see her and i havent since the summer . i will tell her if i knew your real name to tell her whos asking... I hear shes living alone in western mass. peace
nosila
and its scandinavian.. also spells alison backwards |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2298
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 70.16.219.231
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 7:53 am: |
|
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=7121983&nav=4QcReABY |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2299
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 70.16.219.231
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 8:47 am: |
|
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/09/24/former_island_pond_church_teacher_gets_time_served_in_sex_case/
(Message edited by fatherofaking on September 25, 2007) |
truth_seeker
Intermediate Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 475
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.188.26
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:45 am: |
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I'm absolutely appalled at our judicial system!
Why do they let people like this back out onto the streets? Just this summer in our community a six year old boy was sodomized and murdered by a man who had previously been convicted of raping an eight year old girl. It makes me so sad to think that little boy would still be alive if that man had been kept behind bars, and there are so many situations like that! I guess we just aren't going to be protected by the law. Our children will continue to needlessly suffer and be killed unless something changes. |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2304
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 70.16.219.231
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:11 am: |
|
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/09/24/former_island_pond_church_teacher_gets_time_served_in_sex_case/ |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1641
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:54 am: |
|
I am not taking sides here or saying he is innocent nor guilty. Im just stating a possible legal tactic.
JT may have accepted a plea bargain and plead guilty to the lesser charges to end the case and get out of prison, instead of going through a lengthy trail while still being incarcerated and also avoiding the chance of a long prison term... |
whereto2
Junior Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 37
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 68.245.71.124
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 1:54 pm: |
|
foolish speculations |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2306
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 70.16.219.231
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 2:32 pm: |
|
hey naba,
why do we have to continue to put up with visitor2000 coming here under a different user name and harassing us like this?
the uncanny similarities of the two people can be seen through a simple search of vis2000's posts just prior to him being banned. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1645
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 3:05 pm: |
|
Did you mean visitor2005? I cant find anything on vis2000.
For one thing, Im not the moderator here. You would have to email mrfactnet@gmail.com with your complaint.
I must be getting tolerant/mellow in my old age because I dont think whereto2 has really crossed any lines to where blocking would be deemed necessary.
I just see him/her to be just another vegetable in the salad and if your allergic to it or dont like the flavor, just push it to the side of your plate!
I actually like their spice! It reminds me of myself  in my earlier FACTNet days! 
Heck! They're just "venting"!!!  |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1646
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 3:11 pm: |
|
Kinda like arugula! A little peppery and bitter but it really fills a salad out! |
spike
Intermediate Member
Username: spike
Post Number: 124
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.10.74
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:01 pm: |
|
after spending 16 months locked up and facing a possibility of a nasty trial and possibility of a jury finding him guilty (there were no witnesses-a he said, he said case)...taking a plea bargain must of seemed the best way out.
The tiny court in essex county vermont only called juries once a month and his first lawyer had to transfer the case to a second lawyer just as it was coming to trial last year, putting it off for what seemed an indefinate amount of time as the gears of justice turned...
I would like to remind everyone of how this case began and all the maneuvers by the tribes to hurt more victims...there is still a permanent custody case coming up and Batach has nat been heard from...so there is still more to come
lets all pray for peace in this matter for all parties concerned (especially N+Y;)! |
whereto2
Junior Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 39
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 68.244.97.194
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:23 pm: |
|
you are vile spike
you speak as if they meant to hurt the pervert...
you are blind to who actually got hurt here...
GUILDHALL, Vt. --Molested as a child, a 23-year-old man wept in court Monday as he confronted the former church teacher who abused him when he was 11, telling him: "Don't you ever do it to anyone else." |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.4.112.68
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:52 am: |
|
Only fools believe everything they read in the press without questioning the source and acurrancy.
Those of us who have walked beside JT throughout this entire ordeal know what has been going on behind the scenes, the insanity of this judicial system, the reasons JT accepted this plea rather than to go forward with a trial.
JT did not plea guilty to molesting these boys, he pleaded guilty to masturbating and having 1 boy walk in on him in the middle of it. He didn't do it in front of him. To show you how absurd and untruthful this legal system is, they simply tacked the other boy onto the incident because they didn't know what else to do with it-originally he had claimed that while sharing a bed with JT, he woke up with semen on his arm- but he was 9 uears old and I have to wonder how he knew that's what it was...
They wouldn't have had a case at all except that JT had admitted honestly that MW had walked in on him masturbating and yes it was in the storeroom because he shared a bedroom with 5 other single men and twenty people shared a bathroom so the storeroom was the only place he felt he could get any privacy.
As far as I know, masturbating has never been a crime and I don't believe he had any "perverted" intentions toward anyone.
Many people have been hurt by the twisted lies surrounding this whole ordeal, including JT's four children.
I do feel bad for these two boys. I think they are really confused young men that have a messed up childhood from growing up in the TT. I hope they also get some serious help and counseling beyond the rhetoric of the TT. It is what they need to understand their past and live their future. I feel really sorry for them. I know JT does too and he hopes they are able to heal and to find peace.
I just feel compelled to warn you, whereto2, question everything especially when it comes to the TT. |
truth_seeker
Intermediate Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 477
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.188.26
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:45 am: |
|
You know, I really wish JT sypathizers were right about JT and the situations being discussed, because I hope to one day join the twelve tribes, but I take my responsibility to protect my children from abuse very seriously, it's one reason why we are homeschooling.
So, I'll be damned if I'm going to put them in a situation where some pedophile is going to take advantage of them!
I think JT is guilty from what has been presented here. People aren't convicted of child molestation for being walked in on while masterbating. He also admitted to oral sex being involved. I can only imagine how hard it is for his family and friends to hear these things and to accept them. |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.4.112.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:46 am: |
|
Actually, if you read carefully, JT refused to admit to oral sex being involved-and he was adament about not pleading guilty to something he did not do. That is the only reason he agreed to take the plea-because he was masturbating and admitted to it.
He wasn't convicted of child molestation, the plea was for lewd and lascivious conduct which does not include touching. Get your facts straight and don't believe everything you hear! Especially the hype and misleading lingo of the media.
I have all the documents, I've read the affadavits, I have walked thru this step by step, I have talked to JT and the lawyers, cult experts and psychologists. Don't be deceived by the TT or the media--The TT fed them their story.
And if you want to protect your children, don't join the TT. You don't raise your children there, the group raises them. Anyone can discipline them and spank them-with their pants down, many people care for them and influence them-JT was 24 yo when he was caring for MW-he knew him for a few weeks and he was with him 24/7 for weeks on end-traveling around the state with him, disciplining him, teaching him-where were his parents?
Being raised in the TT really messes with the psychological development of kids. Blind obedience in this world is a scary thing to instill in a child-especially thru physical punishment. I feel really sorry for these kids and I hope they get the help and counseling that they need. |
truth_seeker
Intermediate Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 478
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.188.26
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:22 am: |
|
John W. Thomas, 37, of Savoy, Mass., pleaded guilty to molesting two boys in the stockroom and basement of the Simon the Tanner shoe and clothing shop maintained by the Twelve Tribes Community Church.
He was given a 6-to-10-year sentence, all but 16 months suspended.
kumakumali, this aricle explicitly states that JT was convicted of child molestation, not lewd and lascivious conduct. If you have documents which state other wise, then the Boston Globe is guilty of some serious slander! How can I know whether to believe you or the Boston Globe? You say we shouldn't believe everything we hear, well, it's your word against the Boston Globe. Can you show any proof of your alleged documentation?
The statements quoted in the Boston Gobe concering the involvement of oral sex are at odds with your assertions as well.
While the two pending counts at Monday's hearing related only to the masturbation incidents, during his statement to the court, M.W. mentioned oral sex, and Judge Thomas Zonay threatened to reject the plea agreement unless Thomas admitted to engaging in it with M.W.
In a tense exchange, Thomas said "I never forced anyone" to have oral sex.
"Do you really believe that an 11-year-old boy can make that decision on his own?" Zonay replied.
Thomas ended up admitting to engaging in oral sex, though not in the context of the charges against him |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 64.33.184.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:02 pm: |
|
Everyone will be able to see that the plea was for Lewd and Lascivious conduct as it will be a matter of public record. Just contact the courthouse in Essex County and ask for it.
As for admitting to oral sex-JT was asked if he engaged in oral sex and he responded yes-though not in the context of these charges.
Have you ever engaged in oral sex? JT felt he could answer honestly that he had even if it wasn't with these boys. Read the article carefully, contact the courthouse and then talk to me.
I agree-the media has a weird way of twisting things around as does Jean Swankto and the TT. The Boston Globe is not the only one guilty of slander when it comes to JT. |
whereto2
Junior Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 40
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 68.244.58.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:38 pm: |
|
im not interested in your accusations kumakumali... they do not divert me from the truth...
it is clear to anyone who wants to look at the truth... you do not... you are crafty with your diversions and many words... however they do not change the truth...
you indeed do vile work |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 64.33.184.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:11 pm: |
|
At least my accusations are based in truth, not gossip and heresay and presumptions and ill intentions. I have lived at the TT, I have seen with my own eyes, I have read the affadavits and the court documents. I know what those kids in the TT go thru.
Do you want to know the TRUTH?
To hear both sides?
Or do you just want to run around calling everyone "vile?" |
truth_seeker
Intermediate Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 479
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.188.26
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:29 pm: |
|
John W. Thomas, 37, of Savoy, Mass., pleaded guilty to molesting two boys in the stockroom and basement of the Simon the Tanner shoe and clothing shop maintained by the Twelve Tribes Community Church.
He was given a 6-to-10-year sentence, all but 16 months suspended.
kumakumali, this aricle explicitly states that JT was convicted of child molestation, not lewd and lascivious conduct. If you have documents which state other wise, then the Boston Globe is guilty of some serious slander! How can I know whether to believe you or the Boston Globe? You say we shouldn't believe everything we hear, well, it's your word against the Boston Globe. Can you show any proof of your alleged documentation?
The statements quoted in the Boston Gobe concering the involvement of oral sex are at odds with your assertions as well.
While the two pending counts at Monday's hearing related only to the masturbation incidents, during his statement to the court, M.W. mentioned oral sex, and Judge Thomas Zonay threatened to reject the plea agreement unless Thomas admitted to engaging in it with M.W.
In a tense exchange, Thomas said "I never forced anyone" to have oral sex.
"Do you really believe that an 11-year-old boy can make that decision on his own?" Zonay replied.
Thomas ended up admitting to engaging in oral sex, though not in the context of the charges against him |
whereto2
Junior Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 42
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 68.244.58.75
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:38 pm: |
|
you are a fool... accusations are not based on truth they are diversions from it...
your accusations are based on hatred, pride and selfishness
all you can speak of is gossip and heresay and presumptions and ill intentions
your words reveal your own heart
and it is vile |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 64.33.184.103
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:05 pm: |
|
Perhaps that makes you vile and truly the fool considering it is all you speak of.
I do not worship the Media lord and render all it utters as unfathomable truth. I listen to my heart and I know what I see around me. I was there to serve as witness--were you?
Like I said--if you do not believe me, request the court documents yourself.
But be careful where you sling your ignorance. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1647
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:22 pm: |
|
"it is clear to anyone who wants to look at the truth... you do not... you are crafty with your diversions and many words..."
These are my exact words for the Press!!!!!!
whereto2, Believe what you want!
But just because someone believes in something does in NO WAY make it the TRUTH!!!!!!
truthseeker!
I cant believe you cant see this!!! It is so apparent to me what the press has done with this situation!
How they have "sensationalized" this whole debacle!
COME ON!!! ITS SO BLATANT!!!
It reminds me of the National Enquirer!
The Press has also propagated lies and half truths about the Tribes!!! How does that grab ya???
Go here and see! http://icsahome.com/infoserv_grp/grp_twelvetribes.asp
use Log In Name: icsalost
Password: temp |
spike
Intermediate Member
Username: spike
Post Number: 125
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.10.74
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 5:51 pm: |
|
kumakumali speaks the truth, I too have read the affadavits and been there through it all.
Read their teachings on lying...
They sexualize everything and control people's feelings with guilt.
This case is so full of holes the media aren't even interested in it...I've tried contacting them several times throughout this ordeal and they won't follow up. If it was true they could play the role of outraged citizen and if its not they can expose a scandal...
I think we can agree that the truth doesnt belong to someone or just lie out there for us to cling to but instead is something we find within...
peace and love to all |
spike
Intermediate Member
Username: spike
Post Number: 126
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 216.20.10.74
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:15 pm: |
|
kumakumali speaks the truth, I too have read the affadavits and been there through it all.
Read their teachings on lying...
They sexualize everything and control people's feelings with guilt.
This case is so full of holes the media aren't even interested in it...I've tried contacting them several times throughout this ordeal and they won't follow up. If it was true they could play the role of outraged citizen and if its not they can expose a scandal...
I think we can agree that the truth doesnt belong to someone or just lie out there for us to cling to but instead is something we find within...
peace and love to all |
truth_seeker
Intermediate Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 480
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.188.26
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 12:08 am: |
|
Well, I'm sure those boys have had to go through alot coming forward to testify against JT.
In the twelve tribes, they probably had to confront not only victim spirits and sexual spirits, but homosexual spirits as well. Eleven years old is awfully old to be having consensual oral sex with your male teacher and not know better, especially in the tribes, I would think. Under the circumstances, it seems unlikely to me these young men would fabricate such accusations. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1654
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 2:40 am: |
|
"I'm sure those boys have had to go through alot coming forward to testify against JT."
Yeah! Like endless hours of coaching by the elders!!!
Truthseeker, If you want the truth, get the court transcripts and affidavits and stop parroting the press!!! Then you might be able to speak about what you know instead of spreading gossip!
"Without wood a fire goes out;
without gossip a quarrel dies down." |
lets_be_real
New member
Username: lets_be_real
Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 71.98.157.3
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 5:42 am: |
|
What would the TT gain from fabricating a story like this.I don't believe the parents would put there children through such a thing.And no one would want this type of publicity in there church. I know one of the boys and saw the devestation in his life, The effect it had on him. I THINK it was more then him walking in on someone in an embarrasing situation. I was also in a situation with JT when his six year old son said to him take a picture of my butt. Makes you wonder. Doesn't prove anything but makes things a little curious. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1658
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 1:25 pm: |
|
Let get real lets be real!
read the thread I just brought to the top. ie "current court cases" and you will see what they would gain!
Im also actually quite surprised that you for one, who should know better, would throw more "juicy tid-bits" on a gossip fire... |
whereto2
Junior Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 48
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 68.245.156.113
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 1:32 pm: |
|
doesnt suprise me that those cast out will blame the commonwealth of israel... these people are filled with bitterness , hatred , pride and selfishness...
they have strayed far from the narrow path...
wide it is now... to destruction does it lead...
correct your path... repent... |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2318
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 70.16.219.231
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 1:53 pm: |
|
they have strayed far from the narrow path...
wide it is now... to destruction does it lead...
correct your path... repent...
isn't this from a Martin Luther King Jr. sermon? |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1660
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 2:02 pm: |
|
whereto2,
Ive seen your path go from Alaska to Long Island! I guess coast-to-coast is the right path?
I didnt realize the TT had a community in New Jersey! |
whereto2
Junior Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 49
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 68.244.167.183
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 3:28 pm: |
|
more diversions from the truth... |
sabbathkeeper
Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.178.168
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 10:49 am: |
|
IGNORE! IGNORE IGNORE!!!WW2 is the diversion! |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.4.112.37
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 5:48 pm: |
|
I think the TT has a lot to gain from fabricating a story like this. They own millions of dollars in businesses and property all over the world under the guise of the apolstalic order. When I was in the TT, there was talk about the need to protect the assets from lawsuits and how to do that.
If you look at the history of the TT, Jean Swantko's life purpose with them has been to set legal precedence for the group, from homeschooling to child support and child custody, labor laws and tax issues. They want to get it documented on record.
In JT's case, I think it was a mixture of things.
First, the State of MA was going after Batach for Child Support and they don't want that on the books-think of all the money they would have to dish out in child support to people who have left the group.
Second, Batach had failed to appear in court for being in contempt for not paying child support and would have a warrant out for her arrest.
As for the boys, I think that many of the children who are brought up in the group are very confused. I know these boys spent very little time with their parents as they were traveling a lot. I know several of the boys in IP were caught with pornographic materials (magazines, books, etc) when I was living in the TT 2 years before JT lived there and I know there was a book circulating among the BF youth that was sexually oriented.
I know the group has some pretty weird ideas about "sexual spirits" and so forth. I know that these boys were already considered rebellious and had a great deal of resentment and anger. I know that it must be very hard to live in the group and desparately want to connect with someone beyond the rhetoric, someone who will talk straight to you without all the god and sin and lake of fire crap because I know the time I spent there...I longed for something beyond that.
I know that the TT has so much contempt for homosexuals, that as I walked down the street in BF with a 6yo boy, we passed a house where a gay couple lived and the anger and violence that came out of him about how they were living in sin and needed to repent and they were going to the lake of fire and yada yada...
I think sometimes paranoid adults "pervert" natural, youthful, sexual development, they pervert their curiosity. They pervert touch...
And combined with the guilt induced by the environment within the TT, wanting to blame their rebellion on something out of fear, etc
Living in the TT can be incredibly oppressive---and the psychological damage---I can't even imagine.
I don't know, I can see this being the only way out for them. It's easier to say this than to accept their real thoughts and feelings that are wrapped in guilt and shame...contempt for themselves, sometimes it is the only way people can stand to live with themselves. |
whereto2
Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 71.167.66.36
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 2:24 pm: |
|
glad to see you are no longer there...
i cant imagine ever meeting anyone like you in the commonwealth of israel...
i cant imagine the commonwealth comming this far with people like you in their midst either... |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1675
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 2:54 pm: |
|
Yup, your right...they probably would have stayed a loving community instead turning into a High Control Exclusive Christian Fundamentalist Industrial Institution. |
whereto2
Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 59
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 71.167.66.36
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 3:08 pm: |
|
they have after the likes of those here were removed from their midst... |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1678
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 3:28 pm: |
|
and we thank God for His blessing us with the strength and courage to leave!
FYI We weren't removed...we left! |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 32
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 64.33.184.59
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 4:28 pm: |
|
Whereto2,
I am not sure why you feel the need to attack me personally. I am not attacking you-just telling you what I know from my own experience. I don't expect that everyone will agree with it or accept it as their own truth.
Peace to you, Whereto2. |
whereto2
Member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 61
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 71.167.66.36
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 10:53 pm: |
|
what you have done is not couragous... it is cowardess...
if it is violence you feel kumakumali then it is violence you sow... |
sabbathkeeper
Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 72
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.147.84
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 10:22 pm: |
|
BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
anonymous51
New member
Username: anonymous51
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 68.204.214.140
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 11:00 am: |
|
I have thought long and hard about this, I lived with JT alot while I was in the community. When I first heard of the charges against him I was not really shocked or surprised. There was just something about him that was not right. He was very endearing, warm, but there was something about him that bothered me. So many families trusted him with their sons. I am not defending the TT by any means, and it is not uncommon for victims of child abuse to bring it all to the surface many years later. I am not passing judgement, just wish people would stop making JT out to be some kind of saint. He was a rule breaker, bucking heads with authority, but he got away with a lot with his charm and willingness to take of peoples children. One thing about TT parents that always bothered me was passing off thier children to single people so they could run all over doing all kinds of stuff. Some children, like Hakam's spent more time with other people than with thier parent(s). People trusted him and he very well could have broken that trust. I hate pleas deal for criminals, especially suspected pedophiles. A plea deal isn't something an inocent person should even consider, they should fight to the end. A plea deal is something a guilty person takes to get off as easy as possible. Prisons are not kind to pedophiles, look at John Geoghan the pedophile priest who was murdered in prison. Could be JT really is another "pedophile priest". Sad, so sad. No matter how hard you try to protect your family from the world even in the TT it sneaks in. Sad, so sad. Sad that his children will have to live with the knowledge of what their dad did. We make such bad choices in our lives especially in our youth and early twenties. Then when they catch up with us we have to live with the guilt and shame the rest of our lives. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.98.4
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 11:53 am: |
|
It amazes me that you have proclaimed your self judge, jury and executioner without knowing what actually was revealed in court! You, in other words, just said "He is guilty and deserves to be murdered in prison!"
Have you read the transcripts? Seen the evidence and documents? The affidavits and discoveries?
Your opinionated statement about why plea bargains are used just exposes your ignorance. Many innocent people have had no choice but to use this legal tactic, rather then to be proud, take a chance of going to prison for a long time, and fight the case.
I make no judgements or have no opinions on JTs innocence nor guilt. Its not my job.
Judgements made from emotions have no place in a courtroom.
Judgements are to be made from facts and evidence only. |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.4.112.34
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 12:29 pm: |
|
Actually, I was part of the plea decision...I was on the conference call with JT and the lawyer...believe me, there was a lot of pressure and manipulation going on from the lawyers and there is a lot of regret now.
This case was so complicated--how do you help a jury understand the atmosphere of the group? Their belief system? Their educational system? Their child-rearing philosophies? The psychological impact of that? The connections to custody issues and their unwillingness to pay support? The tendency of the media and the courts to believe the accuser without considering the context, thinking critically about the facts...JT was deemed guilty long before he entered the courtroom...
I think it is ironic that anyone here feels they can pass judgment on this issue. I talk to JT all the time, I have walked with him thru this entire ordeal, watched him suffer, listened to him, read all of the affidavits....
JT didn't do this. He was up front about his relationship with the boys in the community. He was very clear about not admitting to anything he did not do...even in court. He would only agree to plea out to masturbating in the basement stockroom of the shoe shack and having MW walk in on him because he said that happened. Even in court, when the judge told him that he had to admit to having forced MW to giving him a BJ, he refused, said he had a BJ but not in the context of this case. His lawyer even took him out in the hall and had to convince him to say that…
He was a father, he has always liked kids, always wanted to be a parent... when he was a teenager, he helped his aunt raise his cousin….helped his mom with his aging grandparents…How many teenagers do you know that would be willing to do that… It makes me sick that people are so willing to twist JT kindness all up into something disgusting! Yeah he was a little lawless...he hated the "system", bocked at authority...that doesn't make him a pedophile.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Think for YOURSELVES!
Look at the FACTS!
The TT is REALLY scary!
They are a CULT!!!
Quit DEFENDING THEM!
They mess with people emotionally!
They DESTROY people’s lives!
Quit being deceived!!!
When I read those affidavits, I couldn't believe what they were accusing him of...Many of those things I have done also...asked my kids for backrubs, talked to kids about sex, given them baths...the list goes on and on. JT was more than a teacher, he watched MW for days on end, took him to work with him, put him to bed at night, answered all of his needs and questions, he was father/friend/brother to him...but maybe not in the way that was expected in the TT--after all, he had barely been there a year....
SHAME ON MW parents for their carelessness and ignorance!!!
(Con’t) |
kumakumali
Junior Member
Username: kumakumali
Post Number: 36
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.4.112.34
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 12:30 pm: |
|
Don't you think it is interesting that MW accused JT of this when he was leaving the community? He needed something. He was desperate and angry. He spent more time with JT than with his family. More time with A stranger--barely 11 years his senior, a stranger he knew less than 1 month who had the authority to spank him, discipline him, boss him around. A stranger who was expected to bounce between teacher, father, brother, friend—how aggravating for MW.
And when MW was with his family, the only way to relate to him was thru the rhetoric of the group..."fight the evil one, don't give into selfishness and worthlessness, Let me discipline you with my almighty stick and paddle...blah, blah, blah!"Do you know how frustrating it is to discuss a problem in that mentality???
Do you know how intimidating it is to sit in a room of 5 or 6 elders and have them interrogate you about your reasons for leaving?
It's awful!! Awful enough to make people SNEAK away in the night like I did!
Awful enough to sever families.
Awful enough to make up stories and twist facts.
JT went there on a whim when he was 23 yo.
He will be paying for that choice for the rest of his LIFE!
But you know what---he feels sorry for MW and for all the kids in the TT.
And he is worried about his own boys being raised in that twisted environment.
As for his children….they don’t believe for a single minute that he would ever do anything like this to a kid. They love him and can’t wait for this all to be over with so he can spend more time with them! |
