| Author | Message | ||
     rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 139.127.189.218 |
http://www.lulu.com/ex-jw | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
bumping this up for anyone who may be interested | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Rebel: I have always found interesting when a person, regardless of whether it is personal, business, religious, political or social, etc. will join or commit to something, marry someone, work for someone etc., and knowing the rules and conditions of going into the arrangement meaning; they accepted them and obviously had no gripe about the rules or conditions going in; only to later find fault with the same rules and conditions (thereby then by association against the people or company or faith etc) because they find themselves in a situation where the rules and conditions of the arrangement are now used against them. This type of activity does not make the opposing person correct neither by assumption or deed by any means! Just Food For Thought! | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
Check again. My book is about dealing with emotions after being a JW, not a gripe session about WT rules. Furthermore, I did not "join or commit...knowing the rules and conditions...". I was a child and had no choice. It was forced upon me. If you are not interested in my book why bother commenting on it. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 238 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.33.117 |
Well as a JW formerly, I know that there is much that is revealed to you after you are a committed member. So Praetorian your comment has little relevence... and don't go assuming that I was in a situation where the rules were against me... I just felt that there were some fruadulent money dealings going on and saw the elders behaving in inappropriate ways in almost every aspect imaginable.... oh now I have heard the line a million times, they aren't perfect... well just as Jesus said, they {pharisees in his day, religious leaders of all sorts in ours} put heavy loads on the people when they themselves are not willing to carry it... Rebel8, I am glad to see that someone is offering support to those who have nothing emotionally, or spiritually left after leaving the organization... they emotionally strip their converts... I too was only a kid... | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) Junior Member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
Praetorian, what about emotional healing do you find so upsetting? I have been accused countless times of having left the WTS because I couldn't follow the rules. These accusations readily came from complete strangers online who know nothing of me or my history. It is common that JWs believe people who left the cult did so because they "committed immorality". In my case that is far from being the truth. I rejected the WTS because it is a destructive mind control cult who teaches lies, commits hypocrisy, and destroys peoples' lives. If I left because of not following the lifestyle rules then I would have been disfellowshipped, and I was not. (Message edited by rebel8 on November 12, 2005) | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 243 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.34.45 |
rebel, I think praetorian may be a little confused... praetorian's posts on other threads are bewildering as well... fo one thing, someone who is happy with the JW's would be employing the WTBS suggestion of avoiding websites just as this... I think a lot of people in and out of the organization have a hard time believing that anyone would just walk away with out it being due to disciplinary action. but I am one such person so I know it is done, but it is a rare person. I believe that you are one such person also. This gives a unique prospective and I think aids in emotional recovery mush more quickly. See I know that, if ever i wanted, I could walk back into a Kingdom Hall and pick up again, but i am choosing to not be apart of that. However, someone who has been a recipient of the disfellowshipping action suffers so much more... this effects their faith in themselves and in God... also, they have a sense of rejection... they are truly in need of a book like the one here. | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) Junior Member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
I'm sure the process of being disfellowshipped causes a lot of hurt. You are correct that I was not DFd so that is one hurt I didn't experience. However, I was in dire need of getting my head on straight and working through difficult emotions after leaving the cult. The brainwashing, control, and false teachings did me much harm. | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 273 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.112.45 |
Praetorian, No one who becomes a JW is aware of the rules, etc, upon entrance. Most people leave when they realize the unbiblical structure and teachings, abuses by leadership, etc. I disassociated my self at age 19. I spent year researching and have 1005 confidence that the organization is not the "truth". Many books written by former elders, and even governing body members, give insight. They are considered apostate by the organization, but if a JW knows that they have the truth, why would it harm them to read the books? | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Dear Rebel8, Luvliberty and Bear: Did ya miss me? All of your “wounding” statements (take a chill pill---you need to have a sense of humor in some of this) require a well thought out response, so I apologize in advance for this rather ‘lengthy compendium’ (oxymoron joke), but I see no other way to address the same, and yet keep it simple. The point remains the same, as when one is raised as a child, which by the way, is the way of life; i.e. raised in Iraq, New York, etc. you are provided the best (for the most part) your family can give you, and since we are all imperfect dysfunctional people, it is the best that your parents can provide---some better some worse…. Regarding emotions, there are countless references one can point to in the bible, though I will only mention two here, that are on point with this discussion, so if you have issues with this, you have them with the author of the bible, your true, real and completely perfect and functional Father----so you can take it up with him! In Joshua 7, a situation arose during the time (to give you the setting) that Joshua was directed by God, to clear out the Promised Land to take possession of it. A man, named Achan chose not to follow God’s instructions via Joshua in a particular matter, that resulted in the (I might add “unfair”) death of several people as God held them “All” accountable due to the actions, that were unbeknownst to the rest of the nation of Israeli, against them, by means of this one man!!! He and his family were put to death to make the matter right in the eyes of God!!!—In effect they were disfellowshipped, but by today’s standards, rather drastically….. Think of the emotional damage many there must have felt, especially the family members who lost husbands, fathers, brothers etc. due to the action of “one” man!!! But, the fact remains, that it was still God’s people, and He was still using them!!! Unfair, righteous, whatever; you judge for yourselves, should you dare! In the New Testament, in Acts 5, we learn that in the Christian Congregation, a married couple by the names Ananias and Sapphira, were put to death by God, in what appeared to be a small or minor matter of contributions, which resulted in a serious sin of playing false to the Holy Spirit! And, in effect they were disfellowshipped!!!! Worse dead as there was no reinstatement for them possible at that time!!! Think of the emotional damage it must have caused their relatives, friends etc… as they themselves were not around to complain about it!!! As to Christians not doing the right thing, the bible is full of examples of people that stole, caused problems, betrayed people, murdered, abused their authority etc. but that did not mean God was not using them, the Nation of Israel (as most all of the Kings were bad---Bear which includes gross abusive of leadership….) nor that he was not using the Christian Congregation!!! This is the point people!!!!! People are people, Christ chose among the 12 a man that betrayed him; does that mean Jesus messed up or did not know what he was doing or that the Christian Congregation is in vein, or wrong because people who are part of it, do bad and or stupid or abusive things?! For that matter, God had one of his Sons, (later several joined him) rebel against him saying his Father was wrong, (Satan) yet did that make God wrong too? If you use the same measuring rod to reason to make your points, then you may find yourself agreeing in principal or reasoning like Satan. People who do bad things whether in God’s faith or not, will get their just due, BUT, and this is the point….It does not change God’s method of worship that he requires as set forth in the bible…this remains a constant despite people!!! Luvliberty, you mentioned that you are glad to see that “someone is offering support to those who have nothing emotionally or spiritually left after leaving the organization” well, what about God, our Father, is he not the best source of support available???? After all when people, or Kings of the Nation of Israel tried to kill certain prophets, of the God they themselves represented on the throne, these too suffered shock, were emotionally upset, and even had second thoughts about worshiping God, it was God not any human that comforted them. Again, as in the examples above, individual Jews could have left the Nation of Israel, (that organization) and the family and friends of the Christians Ananias and Sapphira could have left the Christian Congregation (that organization) but that did not mean that God was not using these organizations!!!! There is never a good reason to leave your Heavenly Father and the way in which he wants one to walk, again, using the examples above, in order to avoid controversy here! As to emotional healing with regards to me, dear lady, I have been DF’d three times, and have dealt with the range of all of those things;;;; I also, as a young person (my family were not JW’s they were “faithful” Catholic’s, Protestants etc.) had problems at home, beeing thrown out of my house by my Mom and Dad who later took me back, for which I am grateful today!!!!! The discipline given me by my family also had it’s emotional components connected to it, as it should!!! I don’t know anyone “normal” who likes getting a beating from their Dad, and who for the moment things, “Oh Dad is just doing his job as Dad”!!! So too, with a Christian family, one deals with it and grows and learns, or one deals with it in other ways, i.e. complain etc. and learn other things from it, BUT the fact remains, that using subjective personal examples or disagreements, or opinions, as a means to try and make a point that God is not with this organization or that, fails on it’s merits, as it did with Achan, Ananias, Judas and others in the bible!!! As to bewilderment, well, you keep on wondering………some one once told me that Witnesses are people too……..As to assumptions and those you refer to about why people leave etc., I trust you know what one does, when one assumes? Anyway, I know people that have walked away, without their being a disfellowshipping, or wrongdoing, and so it is with the scriptures, with people walking away from the Nation of Israel and the Christian Congregation, BUT the point remains the same, just because people walked away from Jesus or the early Apostles, did not mean that Jesus nor the Apostles nor the Christian Congregation were not being used by God!!! It just is, what it is!!!! As to calling them a cult, Jesus was called a drunk and that he had a demon etc. and hung out with prostitutes, etc. and was killed by people that vehemently hated him, yet he still was God’s son, and the means of all of our salvations….This same Jesus is going to execute people at Armageddon….Question” Do you think the people he will execute at Armageddon, will have nice things to say about him etc? What about those who are on his side that he allows to live, will people say nice things about them? Something to ponder over!!! As to brainwashing, all three of you are living proof that this is not so, and for others, they probably could use a good brain cleansing! I guess that very thing was said about Jesus and the early Christian Congregation, after all, dying in the arenas by being fed to the lions etc.;;;;; I could hear their relatives and people now, with all of the emotional pangs etc. saying stuff like, ‘What morons, dying for some drunken fraud, they must be brainwashed etc. etc. etc.” Point is, people will be people, and the bible is full of examples of these things. Pain, emotional pain, like sickness and death are part of this current imperfect way of life and should not be, that is why our God is going to make right what went wrong in the first place, and eventually, this will no longer be an issue…Now that is something worth fighting for, and hoping for and staying the course….People do that in their lives today for many “things”, material things and advancement, like sacrificing their time to get that better paying jobs, putting up with a bad situation, because they know or believe they know that it will work out in the long run. Some even give their lives to their country in war, yet for some for some reason, when it comes to their relationship with their heavenly Father, they feel no need to do the same, and if they do, when things go the way, they “expect” it to go, or “want” it to do, fine, but when it does not, then they feel they can unilaterally rearrange this and do it their way….That’s when problems begin, as this is what Satan did! Bear when the Jews were born Jews, there was nothing but a promise, and yet they were born into a situation wherein the rules were given them later on, BUT that did not change the fact that God was working with and through them as a whole. With the Christian Congregation, being born was not an issue, (though for some it was) as people were taught, and they chose for themselves, some stayed and some left, no different than today. However that did not mean God was not with the Apostles etc,; the fact that others chose to leave, disagree with the structure, Apostles etc. had no effect on God using them!!! Obviously those like Achan and Ananias, and others who disagreed with the “then”, “arrangement” (Jews----Christians) were put to death-disfellowshipped etc. without the opportunity of a reinstatement, at the time!!! All of the outcry in the world will not change the fact that God did what He did with them and the circumstances, which can obviously be criticized by many, does not mean that he is not God nor that he did not work with those arrangements (meaning the Nation of Israel or the early Christian Congregation!!! Bear, on the matter of gross abuse of leadership, how would you like to have been Bathsheba’s husband (Take a look at 2 Samuel 12:1-13) and have King David of Israel, who represented God on earth, take your wife, have you killed;;;;;; Ah wait a minute you would be dead, with nothing then to say about it!!!!! So let us say you are his brother or brother in law….Not only would you have many fine expletives to say and hurl at the King who sits in place of God, (as any normal person would) you would be angry, emotionally distraught, maybe ruined---who knows…..But ultimately, that would, in the scheme of things not change the fact the David sat on God’s throne and that God chose to work with King David and the Nation of Israel. Anger, emotional pain etc. it horrible, but in and of themselves, do not change facts, it only alters the way the person who is feeling these things reacts to something!!!! But it does not change nor can it change, as in the matter of David, Achan, Ananias, if God chooses to work with the Nation of Israel, and or the early Christian Congregation. This is why God places such a high value on humility, because it takes a humble person to accept God’s teachings and leadings as one must do, by working with imperfect-dysfunctional people---that is all is has to work with!!!!!!! And being humble enough to wait on God to correct matters is a priceless quality that God desires all people who love him to attain!!! Nothing you or anyone else says will ever change this…That does not mean that you all won’t feel differently about something, and agree to disagree with me, but when you choose to disagree with the biblical facts above, as they are unchangeable, then you are disagreeing with God, not me!!! Bear, I once stated in a post something that I will repeat here, though somewhat differently. Had Judas Iscariot, complied writing and entitled it, “Jesus is not the Messiah, I know because I was one of his Apostles” I can mention a few things here that are fitting; 1. The other faithful apostles and his faithful disciples would have never secured a copy. 2. It would have been a best seller, as all of the Romans, Jews, and others that hated him would have made Judas a lot more than 20 pieces of silver. 3. All of the people securing the writing would have made Judas their God, as they are using him to validate what they “want” to believe, meaning backing their opinion, because after all, to them, Jesus was a drunken fraud, brainwashing false Messiah, whose people were sent to the lions, idiots, that abused their power!!!! In the end, it takes true humility to not only see this, but accept it and do it as well!!! Sincerely, P/M | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) Junior Member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.58.75.167 |
Your post is completely not making sense to me. My book does not call the JWs a cult. My book is not for people who don't want it. My book does not harm you in any way, so why are you protesting it so much? I was not} provided the best my family could give me when I was a child. The references to emotions in the Bible have absolutely nothing to do with my book so I am not understanding their relevance to this thread. There were no "wounding comments", only responses to your hostility. | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.88.172.174 |
Dear Rebel: Last time I checked, the post was addressed to "three of you" not one, and for the sake of avoiding being called unkind or hostile, that is all I will say other than, Your statement of "not making sense to me" is most interesting. "It is what it is." | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
praetorian said: "I have always found interesting when a person, regardless of whether it is personal, business, religious, political or social, etc. will join or commit to something, marry someone, work for someone etc., and knowing the rules and conditions of going into the arrangement meaning; they accepted them and obviously had no gripe about the rules or conditions going in; only to later find fault with the same rules and conditions (thereby then by association against the people or company or faith etc) because they find themselves in a situation where the rules and conditions of the arrangement are now used against them." Before I was baptized I was told that you could only be disfelloshipped for one reason....unrepentance. In other words JW elders did not judge you upon what sin you committed only on whether or not you were repentant for it. Imagine my surprise when I learned this was wrong. It is a fact that new members within the JW congregation are not fully aware of all the reasons someone can be disfellowshipped. For instance I was never told that disagreement with the Governing Body could lead to disfellowshipment. | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: (Part 1 of 2) Thank you for letting me know that when you, or before you were baptized, were told, (assuming you made no mistake on this yourself) that one can only be disfellowshipped, for as you put it, for “one reason….unrepentence.” I submit to you that Biblically speaking, whoever told you that, JW’s or whomever, they are wrong scripturally speaking as the Holy Scriptures hold our several reasons of wrong doing (which include and are not limited to fornication, which includes adultery, child abuse, etc., murder, thievery, hatred, apostasy, etc,) for one to be disfellowshipped. Now, the fact is that one is clearly before humans in this setting, a forum of imperfect men that are attempting to do so hopefully with prayer, and with the Bible in view, with the ultimate goal of two things; Restoring the person and also keeping the congregation clean! Therefore as you state, a human “body” (plural) must do this today, as we have no other “body” here on earth at this time to make these decisions! Furhter, if a Christian Body makes errors they are held responsible for the same by God, in whose name they state they represent, and God most certainly has the power to intervene in humans affairs to make anything He wants right, should He choose to do so! This was true of Moses, the Apostles and older men in the Christian Congregation, doing things to the best of their human ability. And if you choose to say well, it is clear that Moses and the Apostles had God’s Spirit, etc, then know that how else a Congregation today exist, without the use and appointment of more imperfect men! No matter how you feel about this, the JW’s or any other group have the right to administer the standards to their way of life, or you simply do not join them or other(s) and leave them! Ok, you were told you were wrong, and now what? I did the same thing above, again, now what? (Continued Below) | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
(Part 2 of 2) I must tell you truly that those joining something up front do so, because they have come to believe that the JW’s (or again as in any case, like becoming a convert to Judaism, or Islam) that this is the right thing to do and that they put their faith in it, that (in this matter) among the JW’s (or any group) that their newly found faith and way of life is correct and that God is utilizing them as an “uninspired” Manager (Stewart or Faithful Slave) on earth, and if the “convert” changes their mind about this, (like at a place of business or other group) you leave it or if you make issues over it, you get kicked out! Ok, now what! I know people who have left the JW’s that do not believe any longer in their views, and the JW’s or the WTS, do not go out and hound them to be disfellowshipped etc. as it is when the one leaving them is trying to force their issues at the congregation meetings to disturb the peace of the meetings etc., then action is taken to reason with such ones, and if necessary the further action of disfellowshipping takes place! Ok, now what! This is no different that a person entering into a marriage and up front states, on their wedding day: “well when we get divorced” this is simply not so, however it is known or implied that one can get a divorce and while not looking forward to this occurring, get married! Ok, the marriage now does not work out; move on with your life! Some family relatives of the divorced mate may never speak to you again, but you are still you!!!! If you hound the former mate, and harass them, or stalk them etc, you can wind up in jail! Now what? Should a religious body be prevented from doing the same thing that is encouraged by law to protect oneself from actions like these in a spiritual sense! Get real! P | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
*** Official Jehovah’s Witnesses Media Relations Web Site, March 18, 2002 *** [ http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm] Beliefs—Frequently Asked Questions […] Do you shun former members? Those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned. In compliance with the Scriptures, however, members can be expelled for serious unchristian conduct, such as stealing, drunkenness, or adultery, if they do not repent and cease such actions. | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
That is the official statement JW's make about the process on their website. Notice at the end the emphasis on repentance being the determining factor. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 102 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: Well then here you have it here, they, via the local congregations, use men, they call elders who form a committee (usually 3) that try to follow the Bible, and who ultimately make this decision and well, that is what we have been exchanging posts over! Wow, I am glad that's settled! P | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
if they do not repent and cease such actions. That is the real meat of the quote. The sinner is disfellowshipped not for the sin, but for the unrepentance. That was the belief when I was baptized. As you say, anyone with an 8th grade education could have seen that! But this is not really what happens. Elders DF people all the time who are repentant. They violate their own stated policy. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
This is the way you feel, OK! I guess God will have to reveal them in due time for what they are! And if you, you are in deep do do! So you are even with them! P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 105 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
This is the way you feel, OK! I guess God will have to reveal them in due time for what they are! And if you, you are wrong then you are in deep do do! So you are even with them! P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 106 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Sorry about the double post as the first one was done while I was hendling the phone at the office etc. | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 42 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
"I guess God will have to reveal them in due time for what they are! And if you, you are in deep do do! So you are even with them!" Sorry, I don't understand what you mean? Are you out of replies or what? I am not the one setting myself up to judge others as if I spoke for Jehovah, and I could look inside a sinner and determine his heart condition. Jehovah's Witness elders are doing that. I merely want proof that they have the right to do so. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 107 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Simple: No matter what I say, it will never satisfy you as to these issues. And I have plenty to say, you just don’t want to hear them and yes, I am busy, running an international office etc….. They use as proof the writings of the scriptures, that set this as a pattern, are you not aware of the scriptures of those disfellowshipped especially the one in 1 Corinthians that was disfellowshipped for being with his fathers wife (step mom) who later was reinstated. They get this view from this and other parts of the Bible, and that would serve as proof enough for some, just not for you; however, that being said, you seem to not have a problem with this so long as the one getting disfellowshipped is a pedophile! Did I get that right? P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.150 |
oh come on now praetorian... you well know that new jw members don't know that the gov body of jws are just wicked self-appointed smooth-talking false prophets..... so it is a complete surprize when they figure it out after a few years and then get disfellowshipped for realizing their leadership is wicked. the shunning principal given in the bible was never meant to be used as a tool by wicked leaders to threaten all members who disagree with their interpretation of scripture...... so, you really can't claim your view of disfellowshipping is biblical... you may pretend it is, but the millions and millions of exjws who have been disfellowshipped for figuring out they are involved in a "fake god's organization" know the truth about it all. | ||
| junefever New member Username: junefever Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.172.116.155 |
"the shunning principal given in the bible was never meant to be used as a tool by wicked leaders to threaten all members who disagree with their interpretation of scripture...... so, you really can't claim your view of disfellowshipping is biblical..." Absolutely. As I recall, Paul was dinging that congregation for actually congratulating the guy, as opposed to censoring him (for taking his father's wife). The JW's have taken disfellowshipping to the extreme. They're more concerned with people who question their doctrine then they are with people who are flagrantly practising wrongdoing: i.e., pedophilia. They'd sooner forgive that (as they have) then they would someone who had sincere, logical questions about their belief system. They've truly exploited what Paul said to serve their own selfish ends. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 208 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: I do try to reason with you, but you are unreasoning entity. I have acknowledged the fact that they are people and as such are prone to do the things humans do. They are not infallible, and yes, there is no doubt that certain things have been abused, by some, like the elders etc. however, perhaps the point can be better made by asking you to point us to a church or religious entity that does not make mistakes or where some members do not abuse power, in effect, an infallible entity. Has the belief or practice of disfellowshipping been abused; while I do not know of any cases on point, I will wholeheartedly tell you YES!!! However to think that this a common practice among “ALL” JW’s is to paintbrush them, and this is simply not so! Abusive elders have been discovered and dealt with accordingly and denying that is simple silly to do, because it happens openly and in public! P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 209 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Junefever: I am glad you agree that disfellowshipping is in the Bible, as I do not know of many Christian organizations that actually practice it! I agree that this can be abused because so long as there are human members that are responsible, this sad fact remains. If you read all of the texts that applies (Do you need me to cite them in case you don’t) it plainly stated in 1 Corinthians that Paul was as you put it, “dinging” the congregation, but what happened to the man who took his fathers wife? You may recall the words, “..remove the wicked man from among you…” which then takes you to 2 Corinthians where he is taken back. So what do you call this? They are very concerned about keeping their beliefs unified world wide and yes they take this matter seriously!!! The fact of people questioning their doctrine is clearly misrepresented by you! Think how do people become JW’s in the first place! People question their doctrines before they become one. When this occurs after they become a JW, (and usually this manifests itself when a person is getting disfellowshipped themselves and are angry) and I am speaking about being one for years and then feel differently, they do not auto-disfellowship you! If one has a change of heart or beliefs, they usually leave, (they refer to these ones as inactive not coming to their meetings anymore) as with anything one normally does in life. It is the campaigning in the congregations, disrupting the meetings and teaching these new thought(s) that will cause them to act! It appears that this did not happen in your case and that there were questions you had, (how much later did this happen) that was dealt with via disfellowshipping, as you display anger toward them as well? In the end junefever, if they have done this, God not man, will repay, anyone mistreating his people and his name! P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.45 |
yup praetorian, the wicked jw false prophet cult abuses the shunning principal in the bible. they use it to threaten members who disagree with their wicked cult leadership. disfellowshipping ruins their whole family, and social structure, so........ sadly, most jws give in to the wicked jw leadership, no matter what their wicked demand is, rather than lose their family by being cast out where-by no jws may ever speak to them again. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 233 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P.S. Junefever, I posted above for you and you may not have seen it as quick drink, I mean draw magraw posted. Hey are you guys related? Come on what is the connection here, you can tell us! Are you both male lovers? Just trying to figure out the "connection." | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 93 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.253.69 |
ex jehovah's witnesses are definately in need of books that help them recover from the jw cult, such as the one mentioned in the first post on this thread. it is such an abusive cult........ the leadership is wicked from the gov body on down....... so many jw children run away from home, and commit suicide, and the jw organization has such a high divorce rate because members are not equipped to live normal lives....... it is such a controlling cult. it is nothing at all like the early christian leadership...... it is more like the gestappo dictatorship from hitler, where everyone must conform and be in fear of the leadership. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 262 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Craw: Duh! | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.238 |
yes preatorian, duh. but your duh is a misleading duh. the ex-jws need all the help they can get to recover from the jw cult that you are promoting. they should be directed to all the ex-jw books available, and also the ex-jw help sites available. | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.238 |
the ex-jws need all the help they can get to recover from the jw cult that you are promoting, praetorian. they should be directed to all the ex-jw books available, and also the ex-jw help sites available. | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.30.80 |
notice how the jw preatorian can't defend his position, and then quotes acts 5;38. no preatorian, jesus did not say to let false prophets be, because it might be from god........ he condemned them and exposed them and warned about their tricks..... matt 24;24 |
