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old_watchman (old_watchman)
New member
Username: old_watchman
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.15.65.110
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 12:09 pm: | 
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John 1:1 says that the Word (that became flesh and dwelt among us) was eternally present in an intimate face-to-face relationship with the Father from all eternity. What does HH say of the preincarnate Son?
Does HH believe that Jesus was God incarnate?
Did He live a sinless life?
Did He shed His Blood and lay down His life for the forgiveness of our sin?
Was He bodily resurrected on the third day?
When He said on the cross, "It is finished. What did He mean according to HH teaching?
What did He mean, "You must be born again"?
Does HH set aside the redemptive work of Christ and make the HH fellowship the place and means of salvation? |
the_general (the_general)
Junior Member
Username: the_general
Post Number: 40
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.155.5.167
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
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Homestead Heritage does believe that Jesus was God incarnate and does teach that He led a sinless life, died for our sins and was raised on the third day.However,the redemptive work of Christ is minimalized by thier teaching about the believers obligation to live out the many requirements of the rest of HH teachings which include everything from what you can and cannot eat, what to wear, what not to wear,to what the "true" meaning of baptism is and the covenant commitment to the group and submission to the leadership there,"till death".The Other problem which is in my opinion the biggest problem is that they teach that the leadership in general and Blair Adams in particular are the incarnation of Jesus Christ for our time.So I believe that even though technically they believe in who Jesus is and what He has done, the rest of thier teachings put all of that in the back of the filing cabinet and the leadership of HH and all of the rules and "patterns" as they call them in the forefront. |
the_general (the_general)
Junior Member
Username: the_general
Post Number: 41
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.155.5.167
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 2:09 pm: |
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I would like to stress that the leadership of HH does in fact teach not only that the body of Christ is God incarnate, but that they as the leadership and Blair as the founding apostle are the Incarnation of "Jesus Christ come in the flesh" to the rest of the body and that obeying or disobeying them or their teaching is one and the same as obeying or disobeying Jesus |
kaizen (kaizen)
New member
Username: kaizen
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.9.71.250
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 4:49 pm: |
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A question. Do most of the HH folks come into the fellowship(that's the term I've heard used to describe the group) as strong Christians? It is mind boggling that one could have a true understanding of Jesus, salvation, the Trinity and then be led astray by Blair and the other leadership. However, I do know the lure of HH(safety for children, peaceful environment, old fashioned standards) as our family spent the night and attended a Friday night fellowship years ago. However, my husband said he just couldn't see us there and over the years I have come to agree. We had lots of questions during our visit and after. They were not answered to our satisfaction. So, I'm wondering about the process of changing ones belief that must occur.
I am thankful for this website and am praying for all involved. I visit HH yearly and have attended classes there. Many of the people are so kind. I pray God can redeem what was started there, for His glory! Jesus said "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." May freedom and truth reign at HH.
Kaizen |
couldbe123 (couldbe123)
New member
Username: couldbe123
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.128.176.109
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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Kaizen,
I can give you our experience with the beliefs of the fellowship and our own strength as Christians. We were very strong and well educated believers--as a matter of fact with 20 years of good Bible teaching each. Like you, we visited the Friday night meetings and we were told that it was important that our relationships within the fellowship be based on true friendship and not just on doctrinal beliefs. This was music to our ears, because we had found much divisiveness within the church in the name of doctrinal purity.
So, we continued visiting for several months without ever knowing what was believed. Gradually, we began to suspect some doctrinal positions--but we could never get a definitive answer to our questions. By then we truly had developed friendships and were reluctant to sever them.
In time, the evasiveness became impossible to justify and we discontinued our association. I'll agree with you that many of the people that we met were very kind. We have been part of other churches, all full of very kind people. But we felt that there was a lack of transparency that was troubling, especially when we thought of bringing our young children into it. |
foreverhis (foreverhis)
New member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 12.162.187.31
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 1:50 pm: |
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You are in the fellowship for YEARS before they start, (a little at a time,) trusting you with their more controversial doctrines. They wait until you are fully personally invested, broken, emotionally and spiritually dependent on the group, and completely trusting them. When people who have been there for a while, (no longer just visitors,) start asking difficult questions then they say it means there is a lack of trust which they say is because of a lack of honor for the elders.(sin) It is turned around on you... now you are the one who should }be questioned and not trusted.
You might be a "visitor" or on visitor status for two of even seven years. At some point before membership you must say that God Himself has told you that you are supposed to be a part of their body. Then it becomes a matter of... "If God told you to be here, why can't you trust us? Would God tell you to be a part of this body if we couldn't be trusted." It is supposedly your flesh that doesn't want to be broken and is looking for reasons not to submit to their doctrines and authority. Because believe me, they WILL break you before they trust you with doctrines that may offend you or sensitive inside information.
Imagine living in a world where all those close around you are there to help you in your walk with God and those outside of the group might influence you, (unintentionally or intentionally,) in away that will hinder your walk with God. There is the group you don't need, (or even dare too,) question, but with those not in group you must be on your guard, gentle as a dove and as wise as a serpent. You gain a sense that there is security inside the group and danger outside the group.
For me there was the perceived life style along with the security, (especially for my children.) Eventually... I had given up the truth for it.
As a visitor, I was enamored by the fair they hold in November. Everyone looked so happy. Six year later I was preparing a booth in the early morning hours right before we were to open to visitors for the fair. I had just passed a young girl, a teen age member, and was worried about her. I could tell she had spent hours crying, but she was unwilling to share why. In my heart I was deeply troubled for her and pleading for God to help her. Unfortunately, my face showed my feelings. Along comes the pastor and he walks over to me and rebukes me. Here we were about ready to be seen by visitors and I had a frown on my face??? That was not acceptable! I was told to change my sober demeanor or go home.
Paul is asking the same question you just asked in Galatians. He is addressing Christians who had accepted the Gospel and grace but then given it up for bondage and legalism taught by men who came later.
Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
The word bewitched means enchanted in Greek. It has happened before, and it is still happening. |
infreedom (infreedom)
New member
Username: infreedom
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 67.141.89.26
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 3:40 pm: |
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Yes, yes, it is almostly exactly as foreverhis says in the group that I recently left. Apparently this group is similar to HH in many ways and recently the leaders have formed a relationship. We visited New Life Christian Center for 10 years before we joined it. We had no idea of many of the doctrines until we were there for a number of months. Even then, they weren't really spelled out, just implied. We should have been able to figure many of the doctrines out. We had recordings of most of the Sunday meetings for the previous 10 years and had visited almost once a month over most of that 10 year period. If it hadn't been a 5 hour drive for us each way, we would have visited much more often. Looking back, there probably really was plenty of information for us to piece it all together. But we never did. Clearly, we didn't want to. |
dowen (dowen)
Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 71
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.54.214.51
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 1:37 pm: |
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Foreverhis,
Your last post surprises me and I would like to ask you some questions about the claims you have made. If you do not want to respond that is fine. I just want to question the validity of some of the seeds you may have planted in the readers mind.
You might be a "visitor" or on visitor status for two of even seven years. At some point before membership you must say that God Himself has told you that you are supposed to be a part of their body. Then it becomes a matter of... "If God told you to be here, why can't you trust us? Would God tell you to be a part of this body if we couldn't be trusted." It is supposedly your flesh that doesn't want to be broken and is looking for reasons not to submit to their doctrines and authority. Because believe me, they WILL break you before they trust you with doctrines that may offend you or sensitive inside information.
The last part of this statement is what troubles me the most. You speak of "they"(the leaders) breaking you before they trust you. This is an untrue and misleading statement. If you were being honest with yourself, you would realize that anytime you were ministered to the only motivation the one ministering to you had, was love. That is a hard pill to swallow now that you have left, I know from experience. From my perspective, you are twisting someones love for you into something sinister, harsh and unloving by using words like "they will break you" What a way to repay kindness. Then you bring up the idea of some type of "sensitive information" that the leadership want no one to know about unless that person has been "completly broken". All I can say is you were involved for {six years at least,}maybe more. Did they wait until you had been a member for six years before they let you in on all this "secret" information? If not, then what took you so long to realize you were in a spiritually unhealthy place? Let me guess, mind control?
Then you tell the story about visiting a fair, and enjoying how happy and smiley everyone was. Which was great until after six years you realized the smiles and happiness was all a sham. You told your tale in a way that made it seem that the leaders of HH are only interested in presenting a specific, smiley, image to the public. I think the one thing ministered to me the most, was the need for me to not have some type of image of myself that I tried to project to people around me. Because of that I have to doubt whether you told the whole story behind the scenario you described.
I would like to share something with you that is quite personal but I think will help someone out there who is at least willing to be intellectually honest with themselves.
My pastor for the last few years I participated at HH was one of the most kind, sincere, loyal, loving, gifted, sincere, honest and all around best guys I have ever known. When I decided to leave home, and HH, my dad had to call and tell him about my decision to move on. I will never forget that evening when this brother came over to my folks home and sat down with my father and I. I remember him openly weeping with my father that I was leaving home and venturing out into a very mean and unforgiving world. I remember him telling me, through tears, how concerned for me he was, not that I couldn't be successful or take care of myself but that I was taking a step through a door that I didn't know what was on the other side of, and he felt he did. It wasn't that he forbid me to go, it was that he didn't want me to have to learn the hard way some of the lessons that he had already learned! I cry even now when I think about that evening. Looking back, I realize how much he loved me, and I remember one thing he alway used to tell me, "Daniel, I love you so much it hurts". Later that evening the founding leader of Homestead called me. Do you think he tried to get me to stay? Do you think he tried to use mind control over me? NO! He said, "Daniel, I heard you are leaving us and if there is anything I can ever do for you please let me know", then he added, "Don't ever forget that we love you Daniel". What a big, bad, cult leader!!! Don't even try to tell me that he was lying when he told me that!
In the first few months after I left I let the Devil lie to me and convince me that my pastor and the other leaders didn't truly love me, for me. They only wanted to change me and break me to their way of thinking. I believed that because it was the easiest way I could justify my reasoning for leaving. Now that I have matured a little and have become willing to face my past with an open heart, I realize the pain and hurt I caused was not inflicted on some doctorines or beliefs, it was inflected on people who "loved me so much it hurt." The sad part now is the Brother I have spoken of has gone on to be with Jesus. While he was alive I never humbled myself enough to go to him and tell him how much I appreciate the love he showed me everyday he knew me. Because of that, I beg you Foreverhis and everyone else, remember the love that was showered upon you and please don't wait until it is to late! Go the the people who loved you so much and tell them how thankfull you are for them! You do not have to agree on everything, just take the opportunity this board has given you and try to express to the folks at HH how thankfull you are for them. I know God will bless you for it.}m |
the_general (the_general)
Junior Member
Username: the_general
Post Number: 42
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.155.5.167
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
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Dowen, regardless of what the leaders of HH motives may or may not be and whether or not any of them loved you, is not really the issue. The real issue is that even if they did things or said things to you with love or good intentions the fact of the matter is that they teach a different gospel than the one the apostles preached and the Bible says that if anyone even an angel teaches a different gospel they will be damned. I am not saying that nobody ever showed love. I'm not saying that there are not good people there, what I and others on this site have said and will continue to say is that their doctrine and belief system is dangerously flawed and creates a situation that allows people to have far too much authority over other people and unfortunately many people have been hurt spiritually and emotionally by them. If you were not on the receiving end of harsh and mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusive treatment that's great, but as many have tried to tell you in other posts here you would be in a minority. I know that the things that have been written on this site are true, you don't have to believe them if you choose not to, but it doesn't make them any less true. I know that you are in close communication with HH and I would suggest that you study your Bible, take what you read at face value and then look at what the fellowship teaches on authority and submission, baptism, Jesus come in the flesh, grace vs. works, salvation, the gospel specifically, dress etc. and see if it is the same as the scripture (in context)and if it matches what the simple truth of the Bible says.
(Message edited by the_general on June 28, 2005) |
foreverhis (foreverhis)
New member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 12.162.187.84
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 11:50 pm: |
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Dowen, you know they control access to their doctrines and literature. There are "levels" of members and each level has its own levels. No one in the lower levels get the information given to those in the upper levels. Maybe because you were so young when you left, you hadn't started going through the process of studying and taking tests to get from one level to the next. You can only study for them when they think you are ready. When I asked my group leaders who had made it to the level of sonship, he listed 3 people. (The pastor was not one of them.) Go back to the doctrin thread and read about the levels. I testify that what was written about them is what I read in the literature. I was there for years before I knew about the levels.
LOVE... yes they love you. Did they love me? I believe my Group leaders loved me very much!!!!!
By pastor, you mean group leader right? Cause I didn't know that Bro.GL, (the pastor,) died. I am grieved to think he has. Please say it isn't so.
My own group leader and the literature taught that those in authority over us, (including my husband, children's parents, and leaders,) and our duty to submit to them was to break our flesh and it was so we could have salvation. Unfortunately, many spirits are also broken. Yes, they do it in the name of love. They really are doing it because they feel it is best for the member. If I was a group leader and I had to do what I saw group leaders do while I was there, it would be hard to actually do it. Like a parent says..Boy, this is going to hurt you more than it is me... Only our love for the person can compel us to do something that is going to hurt to someone we love.
So again I must be wordy to explain that I do not mean to vilify the leaders. They are not villains!!! In my opinion they are making mistakes; honest but harmful mistakes in doing what they perceive is right.
}I think the one thing ministered to me the most, was the need for me to not have some type of image of myself that I tried to project to people around me.
You are right; they are not concerned about your image. You are too loose yourself and your identity in the image and identity of the group.
They do work hard at protecting the image of the group though. I have seen it many times and been told to protect it myself. They believe it is the image of Christ. Even this they do in sincerity and in their zeal for God's church. Again, they are not villains.
This is why when a couple is having problems in their marriage, they are disfellowshiped or at least disassociated. If they don't resolve their problems, the break-up will happen "out-side" the group. Then they can come back when they straighten things out, or after the divorce one will be welcomed back after enough time has passed so it doesn't look bad on the group. They can say there has never been a divorce in the fellowship??? Right, they can.
Many families have been disassociated when they were having trouble with their teens. Not all the families, but many. I won’t list them here.
The whole Arizona fellowship was disassociated at one time. (at a time when they needed the Body most.) I won't share why here in order to protect them, because I do love them!!!!)
This is one thing that convinced me that this "disassociating until it's worked out" was not like Jesus. Jesus would draw them closer, not put them at a distance. Jesus would not add more hurt to an already hurting family. In the fellowship, because of who they say Christ is, being rejected by the body is like being rejected by Christ Himself. It hurts really, really, really, bad! The whole family is sometimes rejected because of the sin or struggle of one person.
Jesus was not worried about His image. He ate with tax collectors and sinners. He ministered to prostitutes and even let one wash His feet with her hair where others could see. He did not dress to impress an image of holiness. He knew Judas was going to betray Him and Peter would deny Him in front of others, and still He never asked them to step out of fellowship or association.
HH, please hear this. Please consider it. Everyone knows that Christians have problems, that we are all human. Outsiders won't think it strange that members of HH get divorced just like members of other churches. When members have problems, surround them with support. Do not add to their pain. Please, in love I beg you to change the way you have done this.
I don't want to see HH end. I want to see it healed. I want to see it freed from false doctrine and legalism. I want them to know that the blood of Jesus, the one that was on that cross, (not the blood of the current body,) saves them.
I want Bro. B to know that according to the Bible, the salvation of the members does not rest on his shoulders. I want him to be free of that burden. I want God to bless his socks off! I want his health to be good, no... fantastic.  He loves the Lord and he has a tremendous zeal for Him. Like Paul, he can go on to do even greater things for God. Even Moses messed up at one point. Surely, Bro. B. is not incapable of it too. Look at David, the "man after God's own heart." God forgave and went on to use him to do mighty things.
God loves the people of HH and so do most of the posters here. And Dowen, I believe, in their conditional way, (and some unconditionally,) they loved and still love us who left.
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foreverhis (foreverhis)
New member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 12.162.187.160
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |
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If you were being honest with yourself, you would realize that anytime you were ministered to the only motivation the one ministering to you had, was love. That is a hard pill to swallow now that you have left, I know from experience.
No it is not a hard pill to swallow, because, unlike you, I never doubted it for a minute. They are motivated by a love to minister what they believe is true.
Then you bring up the idea of some type of "sensitive information" that the leadership want no one to know about unless that person has been "completely broken". All I can say is you were involved for six years at least,maybe more. Did they wait until you had been a member for six years before they let you in on all this "secret" information?
Yes, and some of the strangest doctrines they still hadn't let me see. Some I didn't see until I was given HH literature from former members who had left.
I remember the first day I cleaned at the literature center. The sister in charge there pulled me aside and instructed me to NEVER read the literature I saw there. Some of it was non-HH, but a lot of it was HH literature meant for those who were advancing to the upper levels. She told me I would get to see it when the Brothers felt it was time. The sisters who worked at the center were under strict orders as how to handle what they saw.
There are secrets besides the doctrines. Their true history is a bit of a secret. It didn't become a secrete until later, when they wanted people to believe they have their roots in the Anabaptist sects.
then what took you so long to realize you were in a spiritually unhealthy place? Let me guess, mind control?
Yes, I refused to believe my fantasy world, HH, could be anything other than what I wanted it to be. I put on blinders to the truth and the doubt casting made it a solid defense. Only after a near death experience involving a family member, did I fall on my face before God and beg Him to show me what it was he was trying to tell me.
Dowen, I want to thank you for making yourself vulnerable and sharing a personal experience. I too have some questions that you don't need to answer to anyone but yourself....I think will help someone out there who is at least willing to be intellectually honest with themselves. Yes this is the key. No mind games.
The man you respect:
I can say without any doubt that he was a devoted Christian and loved the Lord. He knew Jesus before he joined HH. I remember hearing him share his testimony more than once. The Holy Spirit’s presence was so evident that we knew where the truth stood.
I have edited out personal information about friends whose initials I had used because of an offence felt by a brother. /8-15-05
He said, "Daniel, I heard you are leaving us and if there is anything I can ever do for you please let me know", then he added, "Don't ever forget that we love you Daniel". What a big, bad, cult leader!!! Don't even try to tell me that he was lying when he told me that!
I believe he was telling you the truth! But it is against HH doctrine. It is against HH literature to love deeply outside of the covenant. According to HH God's love is conditional. You have stepped out side the covenant. Like intimate love outside of the marriage covenant it is supposed to be wrong. Those who have ever known God's unconditional love find it hard to stop themselves.
There are many who left on peaceful terms that never got a call including us; calls not just from BA, but from the pastor or even their best friends. Is that love? Our friends were afraid to call us. I understand, I had been there.
Sisters,
(some who even delivered my babies and cleaned up the mess,) I love you dearly and I thank you for sharing all those years with me. To all those who were in my group, I still love you dearly and I am praying someday you will understand that it was out of obedience to Jesus that I left.
Bro. DB, I love you. (Sis J, I love you!!!!)
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
I could not begin to name all those I love and want to thank, so I will stop here.
ForeverHis
(Message edited by Foreverhis on August 15, 2005) |
dowen (dowen)
Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 216.188.240.71
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 8:43 pm: |
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Foreverhis,
I have answered all of those questions for myself and that is, in part, why I have taken the stance that I have in regard to Homestead.
All I can say is, God is Love. I was shown great amounts of Love while attending Homestead and I refuse to sit at my computer and analyze and compartmentalize the nature of the Love given to me. When I read your posts I see you saying something to the effect of, "I loved being loved by those people, but I disagree with what motivated them to love me". Much like someone saying, "I support our soldiers, I just don't support the war they are fighting in!"
I just don't think you can have it both ways...
*************************************************
I just want to answer one question you posed to me earlier. Especially in light of the way you posed as to make anyone reading this think something that is untrue about how someone is treated when they leave HH.
Did he tell you to go to your grandfather? Did he tell you that your grandfather was a man of God and he was sure you could go on with God if you would stick close to him. Just about every one who knew your folks knew your grandfather was and is HIGHLY respected among Christians in Waco. Did he tell you to quickly find other Christians to help you continue your walk with God. Did he have faith that people can leave the fellowship and walk even closer to God than if they had stayed? Could he have been crying because he feared that you would not come back, and therefore you, the one he truly and deeply loved, might be lost forever? This is a fear that parents have.
You wrote this in such a way at to make one think that either my father didn't care about me or my soul after I left, or he thought I would somehow lose my salvation after I left. He did warn me that if I "did only what was right in my own eyes" I would certainly not make it to Heaven. But he never once told me that I would go to Hell if I left home! He did try his best to give me guidance as to how to find other Christians, but unfortunatly I refused to listen and commited myself to doing whatever pleased me. He pled with me to not leave God, and to seek his face daily. My mother gave me a hand written list of scriptures she felt I needed to read. I still carry that list in my wallet and read it whenever I need to feel her love for me. Those scriptures were not damning scriptures or scriptures meant to bring me back to HH! They were scriptures that my mother held dear and she wanted to share with her son! You want to cast such a dark cloud over their every move, but I am here to testify that every single thing anyone associated with HH told me, after I left, was motivated by love! My father did tell me to seek council from people like my grandfather, I must remind you though that when I left I had no desire to be a Christian. I told my dad that and although it caused him great pain he tried his best to respect my decision. I made it very clear to my dad and my pastor that I did not want their advice any longer and they tried their best to respect my choice, even though it hurt. I say this to my shame, but HH is not responsible for my actions! I am responsible for my decisions! I am responsible for turning my back on God for that short period of time! It would be easy for me to blame HH for "causing" me to fall away but that would simply be slander and I would only be lying to myself. Like I said, I am responsible for ME!
I say all of this just to make very, very clear the fact that when someone leaves Homestead they do not think that person is automaticly damned! Many of you seem to want to believe that but it is simply untrue and I am living proof that that accusation is a lie. |
the_general (the_general)
Junior Member
Username: the_general
Post Number: 43
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.155.5.167
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 9:38 am: |
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Dowen,again your experience is what it is,but you insist on calling everyone with negative things to say about HH liers and the things that they say accusations.You were there as a child, do you not have room in your mind for the idea that someone who was there for years as an adult might have had a very different experience or that they might be able to see things that you as a child could not see.Or maybe you are believing and seeing what you want to regardless of what the truth is.I was there for many many years and I know from first hand experience that the examples that have been recorded on this site are accurate.I could write pages of facts that are my own story and the stories would be the same as the others.Did I have any times when the leaders showed me love or compasion? Yes I did, but I also had a lot of bad experiences. As I look back and view the whole picture I see a place, a group, a community, that has a very warped view of God, Jesus and the world.Dowen you describe HH as such a good, loving and truly christian place, why don't you go back.If the world is such an ugly place and HH so safe why are you still hesitating? |
curious1 (curious1)
Intermediate Member
Username: curious1
Post Number: 202
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 70.178.226.162
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 1:54 am: |
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quote: "I was there for many many years and I know from first hand experience that the examples..."
I think some of those examples could be very beneficial. |
seekingglory
Intermediate Member
Username: seekingglory
Post Number: 159
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 24.162.130.158
| | Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 6:35 pm: |
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