| Author | Message | ||
     EX HARE |
HARE KRISNA IS ONE OF THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE SECTS. THEY HAVE NONE of the Qualities of Healthy Spiritual Practices: Healthy spiritualities create a balanced spirituality composed of emotional and mental balance, practical idealism, and science and philosophy. Healthy spiritualities assist the individual to harmonize their life into larger and more universal values reflecting. Healthy spiritualities cultivate awareness, loving regard for all life, compassion, empathy, and wise, situation precise applications of the basic human virtues. Healthy spiritualities encourage their members to reality test their inspirations or insights against reason and other means or individuals. Healthy spiritualities are open to sincere outside review. Healthy spiritualities are designed and conducted in ways that respect the common good, with due regard for public safety, health, and order. Healthy spirituality creates a social activism that manifests in responsible ways that reflect a loving regard for all life. Healthy Spiritualities respect and preserve the autonomy and dignity of each person. Participation is voluntary and based on prior disclosure and consent given to each participant while in an ordinary state of consciousness. Healthy Spiritualities protect each participant's health and safety during spiritual practices. Any physical or psychological risks are fully disclosed. There may be periods of vulnerability on a healthy spiritual path where participants may be especially open to suggestion, manipulation, and exploitation, but in a healthy spiritual practices they do not financially, sexually or in any other way manipulate or take advantage of any such periods of vulnerability. Healthy Spiritualities maintain appropriate customs of confidentiality. In Healthy Spiritualities the leaders and teachers are chosen for long standing moral character and whose actions have consistently reflected their spiritual statements and positions. Healthy spiritual practices grow through attraction rather than active promotion. Healthy Spiritualities are conducted in the spirit of service and accommodate participants without regard to their ability to pay or make donations. They look for controling people minds, and after two or three years with them you are conditioned to act as a zoombie. | ||
| Anonymous |
Prove this......... Jay Acre of Ireland | ||
| Anonymous |
Jay Acre, This has been proved over and over again and is well documented. How many court cases have they fought and lost? | ||
| Anonymous |
I was raised a devotee and I saw some things that were messed up but as far as I am concerned Krishna Consciousness is a really wonderful practice. It has helped me greatly and is a good thing! | ||
| Anonymous |
IT HAS HELPED ME TOO! CHANT HARE KRISHNA AND BE HAPPY! | ||
| Anonymous (62.255.32.4) |
What makes something a cult? | ||
| Patrick Lansdowne (172.150.169.155) |
Why I joined ISKCON By Patrick Lansdowne (This little bit of writing I did for myself originally for the purpose of coming to terms and understanding my almost 10 year involvement in the Hare Krsna cult. I wanted to understand myself and my motives better and to reflect some on what that experience meant and still means to me and to be honest.) When I was 19 years old I became attracted to ISKCON. Why, I have asked myself, for that attraction did not endure. When I was 19, I went out into the world on my own for the first time, away from my parents. I was immature, scared and needy and at the same time some what rebellious and desirous of proving myself. I don’t think I was really prepared to meet the challenges of living life on my own with out the support of family, but I wanted to be independent and seem grown up. But I was not ready to face the responsibilities of being an adult. I wanted to discover some easy way to get through life, with out having to go the “normal” route of getting an education developing a career, taking care of a family, paying bills, making money etc. I seemed to be bent on rejecting everything that was “normal”. I was somewhat interested in spirituality. It seemed to me that there had to be some kind of deeper meaning to life. I had had some “spiritual” experiences when I was younger involving the Catholic religion which gave me some kind of faith in spirituality, God, and religion, but to become a Christian seemed just too “normal” for me who wanted to be "different". Plus I was an insecure person. I didn’t trust myself and wanted to find something outside of myself. I didn’t like myself much and wanted to become a different person, someone people looked up to and was accepted by others. Although I didn’t want to fit into what I considered “the norm”, I still had a desire to fit in somewhere. When I was introduced to Krsna Consciousness it was basically through the hardcore music scene via the band Shelter (punk rock from the USA). I liked alternative music just for that reason, because it was “alternative”. Then some kids in the scene became Hare Krsna’s and that just seemed completely as alternative as one could be, which was attractive to me. I tried to read Bhagavad-Gita and found it silly and incomprehensible. I immediately had doubts about the philosophy and theology of Hare Krishna-ism. Soon after that I met the devotees and heard about more and more kids from the hardcore scene joining ISKCON. I started going to the Sunday feasts at the Krsna temple. The Hare Krsna life style seemed attractive to me because everything the devotees did seemed really different and “alternative”, from the way they talked and dressed to the way they ate and slept and they were doing it in the name of spirituality. Plus, it seemed so easy to me, such an easy life style. No bills to pay. Do a little work at the temple and you get free food, shelter and clothing. It seemed like a close-knit little family environment with its own unique customs and culture. I wanted a group to fit into, a family to belong to, and the Hare Krsna’s seemed to have it. They seemed to have the ultimate alternative life style that was completely separate from everything I considered “normal”. It was the first thing I came across that offered an approach to the materialistic life I had grown up with. I tried to read the books. The parts of the philosophy I had problems with I would just either brush over or try to force my mind into blind acceptance. I really wanted to fit into the/a group. Doubts were not discussed in ISKCON really, but blind faith was encouraged. Pretty soon I had myself convinced that this Krsna religion was really what I was into and the “best” way. Prabhupada is constantly repeating through out his books how he considers the Krsna religion the “highest” and the superior way and how all other religions and philosophies are inferior. This always seemed sectarian and narrow minded to me, but because I wanted to belong to a group I always pushed these doubts down and many others down inside and tried to forget them. After a short time, I decided to join the temple and become a full time member of ISKCON. I told people and myself I wanted to be a monk. I “renounced” my girl friend and all my old friends and never spoke to them again. I practically stopped talking to my family also. This was encouraged by ISKCON, to renounce “material association” and to associate only with devotees. (asat-sanga tyaga…) I see now that all I really wanted was to live an easy life and run away from the fears of growing up. I wanted to “renounce the world” and my whole monotonous “material” identity. I wanted to run away from the responsibilities of life and just be “blissful”. I wanted to be a part of the highest most superior alternative scene. I wanted to “chant, dance, and be happy”, which is one of the favorite ISKCON slogans. I wanted to experience the bliss the Hare Krsna’s guarantee one will experience just simply by joining ISKCON and living the “ultimate” spiritual life. It was not long after joining the temple that I realized that this was all hype. I did not ever really meet many genuinely happy people in ISKCON. The majority of people who joined did not stay very long. Many of the ones who stayed were like me, and seemed to simply want to avoid growing up. Of the few students of Prabhupada left, many had become power hungry leaders who had become completely alienated from themselves and the other members who they were supposed to be guiding. Also, in my travels from temple to temple, I met many people who would probably be considered literally “crazy”, or mentally disturbed. Some of these had come from mental institutions; some probably should have been sent to them. Many of the members of temples were caught up in politics and talking about people behind their backs. People would come to the temple programs and dance chant and try to look happy, but afterwards they would spend their time being miserable and unhappy, and many times they would tell me about it. And many members would spend much of their time with-in ISKCON traveling from temple to temple out of restlessness, trying to discover the temple which they hoped might actually have that blissful life they were idealistically and naively seeking when they first joined ISKCON, because so far they had been hard pressed to find it. And then I began to discover much of the horrible and many times criminal history of the organization. Rampant and wide spread child abuse and molestation in the Krsna schools was the worst of it. Some of the people who had committed these abuses were still allowed to live in the temples. I also found out quite soon upon joining, how many of the leaders I was “under” were quite manipulative, unfriendly, and authoritarian and down right discouraging. I began to feel more unhappy than I had before joining, but I felt trapped. I had been fully indoctrinated; my free will had been compromised. After a short time I had fully swallowed the idea that if I went any where else besides within the walls of the ISKCON organization my soul would be lost for ever. To go back out into the “material world” meant certain spiritual suicide, I was taught. Many times I felt depressed and miserable under the thumb of dictatorial temple authorities and contemplated leaving. After about 6 years I was unceremoniously kicked out of the temple with no money or job or a place to go because of a disagreement with one of the temple leaders where I lived. (But that is a long story which I do not wish to tell right now.) Needless to say, I felt at that time that it was unjustified and heartless on the part of these temple authorities to simply throw me out on my ear with no support. But really, this was just the push I needed to actually escape my programming and fear of the outside world and face up to the responsibilities of life. Actually I am thankful for it. But it took me close to five years after leaving ISKCON to feel completely comfortable about being on my own again, and to feel fully free from all the backwards Hare Krsna conditioning I had swallowed. Now I feel free from that oppressive and non-progressive way of thinking and I feel happy to just be “normal” again or possibly for the first time ever. Sometimes I feel regret for wasting close to ten years of my life as a Hare Krsna, but I try to just see the lessons. I have some respect for the ancient Vaishnava tradition and feel like there is some amount of truth there, although I am not an adherent to it. Now I feel that ISKCON is a perverted and bastardized representation of the ancient and genuine Hindu tradition: started by fanatical and immature western hippy followers of Prabhupada. I have to say that, while reading Prabhupada’s books, I now feel that he promoted and encouraged fanaticism and narrow mindedness too. I feel that he was sexist and denigrating towards the female gender or at least I can say he provided a great deal of fodder for westerners with a sexist mentality to pick up on and institute, and try to justify it based on his books. Also I feel that Prabhupada encouraged fanaticism and blind following in his writings. Now in my life; I feel satisfied taking the spiritual search on my own terms and at my own pace. I do not believe that Krsna is God and I think that most of Hinduism is mythology. I think Prabhupada was just an ordinary person who felt like he was doing the right thing by teaching the religion he grew up with in his Bengali culture to others. I don’t hold any grudge against ISKCON for I chose to join and become indoctrinated by it. I chose to turn off my rational mind and become a blind follower. I did not experience bliss while there, only disappointment and depression, so I left for good. Now I do not push away my doubts about religion but confront them and deal with them. I do not accept anything blindly anymore. And I feel more free than I have ever felt before. I have an inexplicable and undefinable faith that there is a Supreme Intelligence God. This is a faith that I have felt intuitively since I was a small child. I am now endeavoring to seek out God in a genuine way, free from the desire to “belong” to any other group save sincere seekers. If anyone were to ever ask me about ISKCON as a viable path, I would tell them that I believe ISKCON a genuine cult. I thank God that he allowed me to escape from it eventually. | ||
| springviolet (springviolet) New member Username: springviolet Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.109.60.95 |
Patrick Landsdowne's messages are very interesting snd insightful...I too am an Ex but only of six months actually living in the Temples: But it felt like SIX YEARS; what Hell after the Honey moon Phase was over!!! Someone in my blood family had to extricate me. It too has taken me some time to even BEGIN to re adjust to mainstream society. Voluntarily I renounced my bio family, my kob of almost a decade; I sold my Honda my parents bought for me (so generously), said "see ya," to my friends and renounced in the end, basically all my desires. BUT when I started out, everything was still fine: I still was in good standing with the outside world...the Karmis." Since I have been out of the Temples (Thank Heavens!) I have to repair all the damages I did to myself and my responsibilities. I thank my Guardian Angels and the Gaurdian Angeles of others that I did not harm anyone else that was close to me, with my HK involvent but I did hurt alot of people- rejected them and their own spiritual beliefs as well as their concern for me. AND AT FIRST, I thought, Well, I'll just take a spiritual sabbatical. What I did not take in to account was what I was being warned. "BE CAREFUL..." "WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS HAIRY KRISHNA THING..." And as far as the lawsuits, I did not take the time to research them because I did not think I actually SHOULD. Big mistake. There HAS to be two sides of the coin here, now that I investigate it. Right on, Dude, about the food obsession point. Its so true! (And that's just a smidgeon of the HK's whole obssesiveness issues). Why they're all about "WE'RE not about the body," but they are hung up over foods! And the garlic and onion issue? Damn, guys. This gets really serious. No soy. What? Not even eggs? Jeez! At least when an individual lives as a 'devotee' on their own they can decide what to eat, wear, listen to and read; not as a monk you don't! What so many folks who go in to do "service" is that they basically have to renounce their individuality. What an issue provoker! Can these people, whop are forced to chant round afer round after awful round be truly Happy? We have to find our own Happiness in these places or its internal upheaval! Can we be satisfied 'worshipping' someone else's god? Maybe not. Reality gets very dangerously distorted. That's high time to get out. There's so many strories to tell; where to begin for an ex monk? I personally, had had enough. The verbal abuse is TERRIBLE! I was surrounded by so many individuals who had been abused themselves or saw it first hand. How hypocritical can someone be? I mean...isn't this Movement supposed to be about Love? Compassion? COMPASSION?? I did not find much of it, and I found so little tolerance for others ('karmi's') and so many hang ups and stigmas. Animals (other than humans) are considered Dirty and thus are ostracized: god forbid they be protected and given asylum, much less a Voice; monks have to rise before 4am EVERYDAY: an issue; mistakes are NOT tolerated; and some temples simply do NOT practice "KC". Talk about Karma! How effective and respectable can any house or institution of the Holy be if it does practice its own philosophy?? Wearing asari everyday to every single place is not comfortable at all and neither is never getting enough sleep at night and not being Allowed to even nap. Its not a nice thought to know that the poeple you work for really do not care about you. Live in's hear the same things repeated all the time: how contaminated we are; how sinful we are; how we are not meant to be trapped in a material body and that there is no Love in this world, only lust. Monks are kept in Kc 24 a day. Krsna, Krsna, Krsna...until it actually becomes a burden and an order. If a devotee is caught with un KC literature it is actually thrown out. Sometimes there is no privacy. Even other monks are nasty and supercilious with other devotees. Most brhamcari/inis want to get the hell out of the ashram (they usually have to get married) because they think they are literally going crazy. Oh...and the reg's are downright oppressive! Illicit Sex is usually taken to be adultery, but not in Iskcon: even having sexual feelings is proscribed the way drinking a simple cocktail or eating anything Not Offered is! So we eat only Sin if the food is not sanctified? Evidently. And a woman is Contaminated (doubly) when menstruating and is in a sort of exile. And the deal about being a spirit soul. Funny then: why is there so much abuse? Why don't these really live that foregone conclusion? "Everything thing belongs to Krsna..." Of course it does! Devotees already know that. And where doesit say that chanting 16 evry day, 365 a year is not detrimental spiritually or mentally. This is ANOTHER important issue. One folks may not see or recognize as Odd if they are an outside devotee and in the meanitme they are doing sat sang with some genuinely nice and sincere people who they can really talk to and relate. Its Philosophy was what attracted me. Yes, I do believe (still do) that our Higher Power is a Person; Karma is reasonable (the way PPD discusses it); materialism vs. spirituality has practical applications. But one does not have to be so 'priveleges' to be 'awarded' devotional service: its already our birthright; we can serve humanity and our Higher Power even being a non devotee! And what the heck is a 'pure devotee'? How so many ex followers deplore that term! Maybe there is not such a thing...I don't know anymore. I read in an online thing that Krsna is just a mythical figure and that Lord Caitanya was bogus... And speaking of bogus... TKG is supposedly- and also supposedly PPD's assasin. Well, that's out of my own league, but I will say that a particualr "asura" I used to room with who was also a temple authority, had pics of her guru (TGK) all over her walls as well as his "guru." This person was very abusive, and as I say, asura: ubusive, false, demonic. I have worked with PPD Disciples, mainly in New Vrindavan, and they were some of the most KIND individuals I ever met in ISKCON; but Tamal Krsna disciples? Look out. Totally the opposite. But that news about his falseness in Iskcon totally gave me the willies and this person I had worked so close with... "Devotees" going on and on about TKG's accident and how glad they were! That he deserved all of these terrible things...how Loving is that? That's not love; totally not in their "krishna" philosophy at all! And did they ever stop to consider the other person in the car who had also died? What about her? Did SHE deserve to die? I don't think so. Some folks need to get off their high horses or alot of others are going to stay very angry- and they don't have to be the ones who have been sexually assaulted...alot of people are just going off, because they're thinking, Well if the temple has failed me then what is there? Because when we we 'join,' we think that this is it, the phiosophy and its Iskcon truly is the end of all sorrows and beginning of hope at last. Its said that cults tend to attract those with low self esteem. But in Iskcon's place, it attracts those of all type but especially ones who are Searching, intelligent, and who ask themselves: Who am I and where did I come from? Why am I here and where am I going? If you naturally believe that reincarnation is possible or very reasonable, have your guard up- I myself was very susceptible because of certain beliefs I've always had. In fact I still stayed with the Movement despite encountering sexual abuse myself, that was how much I belived in the message. But bowing downto statues and "dieties" that are treated like living people is not very healthy and soon resented being Ordered to do this and do that, knowing that even the Bible warns against such bowing down and Idoliatry. And the temples really, aside from food dist., and the like, really did not try to heal society for pure and unselfish reasons like they should be. I don't know if "they" are out for power and money, but sorry folks, the love is just not there, not in the general sense. So many vistors even have such negative experiences with temple devotees and even the preisdents and never go back again. So anyone out there who is actually now at the phase of thinking about becoming Full Time: THINK ABOUT IT FIRST. Think about those who love you, your own sanity; do research, ask others, look at both sides of the coin...not just your own as a devotee. Anything can happen once you've given up governing your own life and give control over to a religious group! Whether it is a Cult or not is up to you to define, but the truth is, some of these people have very serious mental issues and you may not be anything to these people except a lackey: a mere nothing. That's not a good feeling. You've a mind of your own; don't relinguish that. Helping humanity is not giving them a philosophy once you no longer believe in the people who suposedly live it themselves. Iskcon IS mind control! Its so true...And we need to protect our children; give them the choice before raising them in this society.  | ||
| harekrsnadevotee (harekrsnadevotee) New member Username: harekrsnadevotee Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/1038.html?1097891929 Chanting is the process and goal. When one receives pure name from a pure spiritual master, then the real process begins. Whatever you do, do that and be the best you can be.. enter the Zen mind and fully embrace the chanting of Hare Krsna.. chant meticulously, hear your own chanting, chant with love and emotion behind it, read some Krnsa book and meditate on something pertaining to Krsna... stay focused and you will be rewarded with Krsna's darshan. You can do it in 6 months or less.... you have to have a do or die mood.. meeting Krsna is not cheap... you must want..... Beginners can begin by chanting OM, hearing their OM and meditate on a picture of Radha Krsna or Nityananda Gauranga. Gradually increase your chanting, reading, helping others... 5 minutes a day then 10min then 15 and so on until you can do 2 hours, the 16 round equivalent. Most important is to chant when you feel like chanting. Other souls have their own relationship and thier own ways of conducting themselves.. do not judge or criticise... or and invisible bridge will be created between your heart and theirs, then all those bad qualities will rush into you... see the good they do and they will do better and those qualities will rush into your heart.. you can do it.. real Hare Krsna and masters have love and affection for all life.. they have no attachment other than Guru and Krsna.. can you be like that... love your families, do the right thing, if they cry for you when your away and you are loving Krsna and seeing his pastimes in your heart, your family should cry for and they should see Oh he is a Hare Krsna, just see what a nice person he has become, he cares for all life... If you are not crying for Krsna..and seeing him within 6 months, then ask yourself and your spiritual master what to do to try and increase your love. Hare Krsna path is the most sweet, rewarding, and challengeing... there is no room for the weak hearted. I've met many many people while travleing and preaching while as a martial artist, soldier, Buddhist, Christian, and Hare Krsna... The soul is eternal and Paramatma Vishnu is in the heart right next to each and every soul that ever exists... this relation is beyond all conceptions, even that of religios title and belieg systems.. Krsna says to abandon all varities of religion and surrender to him ... why does he say to surrender?? Because we still think I am the doer and I can do whatever I want, I don't need God.. I only need this or that or be with my wife, or family.... they and those things cannot save you.... you were born in to this world with clenched fists, will you leave this world with clenched fists or open upraised arms breathing one last breath and sigh.. AAHHH Krsna .. or Ahha I have found you. God is one. you can call any name of God you want on your last breath... just do so with love... do not have any hate or animosity in your heart, for the heavy heart sinks very quickly. Be like a child, free from all the misgivings that come in this material world and cover our soul. Always pray for the good and trancendental things in life. The Krnsa path is perfect and complete, places are made Holy by Holy persons and not by sticks and stonelike buldings. Saints carry Krsna in thier heart, they can help you have the same. do not let the religios machine disuade you from the truth. Krsna loves everyone, he is just waiting for you to give up the bondage and ropes of this material world and to Love him with all you heart and soul and with all your strength. A real spirtual master will encourage you to grow and mature in your relation with Krsna and to help the world as much as possible. Build a strong temple in your heart for Krsna and Radha and Nitai Guara and Guru in the Heart and love will come for all entities. It will I swear it will. Try to live in places in the mode of goodness, like forests, farms, away from the cities and try to visit India when you can... Everyone should go atleast Once in thier life... I personally like seeing how the families work together and are always trying to remember God ... please see the folling websites for more help... www.SrimadBhagavatam.org www.Curezone.com www.Humblegifts.org www.FiveTibetanRites.com www.WaterCure2.com www.mhDewormer.com Srila Prabhupda has said the most important spice in kitchen is salt… www.RealSalt.com many people think table salt is real, it may taste salty, but in fact it is very poisonous, most don't learn till it's to late. RealSalt is very natural and very healing to the body and mind ~~~~ real Krsna Conscouisness is like real salt and the imitation is obvious once one has been made aware of the truth. The ocean water has in it all the same mineral properties in it that our blood should have ... IV saline solutions are used to help people, coconuts can even be used to give an IV to save life, but the sweetest life is loving the Lord of your heart and serving others practically and nicely, remembering that they also are part of Krsna. Krsna is the ultimate naturalist, we should practice some of those teachings and not the crazy money driven stupid city dwelling life style where everyone has to work like hogs dogs, and asses for someone else and even the mothers have to go work 2 jobs just to get by Just pack up and move, or are you still attached?? Did you know that older circus elephants only require being tied down with one piece of string….. they have been conditioned from birth to stop moving as soon as they feel a little tug… because the elephants use to wear heavy chains, any movement past the first tug would hurt and they could not move passed that point anyways… so they have been conditioned, and all that binds them is one string … our human life is so very precious, and we are one string away from Guru, Gauranga and Vaisnavas … when will we break that string??? WE must pray for mercy and love, ask for their moods to enter our hearts. When will you stop saying it can not be done to the person who is making it happen, and choose to do what you can do. … Do not let anyone break you …. If you ask a kindergarden class who can draw… all the hands will go up .. in middle school, half the hands go up, and in high school only a few hands…. Everyone can draw, everyone can shout quality all they want, but the bottom line is are you drawing for God because you love him, and want to know him more. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 214 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
HareKrsnaDevotee: you surely are out of your strings, the worst thing is that you consider mind and reason to be one of the bad strings. No, mind was given to us by God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) to be used in compatibility with our emotions and will. Your cult teaches people to leave mind aside and you give them extase and emotions as the proof for truth. Based on this principle taking drugs would be the utmost of your religion. And people accept your destructive illogical and false teachings because you and your evile spirits that lead you make people feel strong emotions. On the long run accepting your fakes destroys people minds and they cannot think logical and correct again. They are then lost forever cause no one can have a simple discussion with them based on common sense. You speak about God as a liar cause you have a different God in your mind not the Creator of the Universe that sent Jesus on earth. You package your hatred and nonsense into 'christianized' terms to sell them it us. Indians need the Gospel of true God; I only feel pity for them when I see the most advanced of their religion is to paint oneself with cowshit/ menure on the face and refuse to take contact with the real world. Jesus is true, He came on this earth and took contact with people to forgive their sins. Yes take people to India to see what real H.Krsna is: people possessed by devils that do not act like humans anymore but lost their minds. It is not your fancy talking with a pretention of wisdom. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 215 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
http://www.watchman.org/profile/iskconpro.htm International Society for Krishna Consciousness / Hare Krishnas By Jason Barker Founder: Abhay Charan De Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Date: 1966 Official Publications: Scripture and central teachings include Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Caitanya-caritamrta, Nectar of Devotion, Nectar of Instruction and Sri Isopanisad. Periodicals include Journal of Vaishnava Studies and Back to Godhead. Structure: Governed by the Governing Body Council (GBC) of thirty devotees, who meet annually to elect secretaries to govern geographic zones. Temples, preaching centers, and smaller operations are individually-governed units. Unique Terms: Vaishnava, Acarya, Prasadam, Sankirtan, Govinda's. HISTORY The Krishna consciousness movement can be traced back to Chaitanya (1486–1534?), an Indian who was introduced by Isvara Puri to kirtan, chanting the names of God (this includes the Hare Krishna mantra, "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare") (Encyclopedic Handbook of Cults in America, p. 232). ISKCON members believe Chaitanya was the avatar, or physical incarnation, of the god Krishna from the Vedic scripture Bhagavad-gita ("As It Is") (ISKCON: What is That? <http://www.iskcon.org/main/iskcon/what.htm>). The movement declined after Chaitanya's disappearance in 1534, but experienced revivals in the seventeenth and nineteenth centuries (Encyclopedic Handbook, p. 233). One of the central movements of the nineteenth century revival was the Gaudiya Vaishnava Mission (Ibid.). The second leader of the Gaudiya Mission, Sri Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Goswami, became the guru of a pharmaceutical manager named Abhay Charan De in 1922 (Ibid.). Initiated into the Guadiya Mission in 1933 and charged by Goswami to spread Krishna consciousness to the west (Ibid.), Charan De was given the name Abhay Charnaravinda ("One who fearlessly takes shelter at the feet of the Lord") (Biographical Dictionary of American Cult and Sect Leaders, p. 223). In 1956, after a third vision of Goswami sending him to evangelize, Charnaravinda renounced family and possessions to spend his life in Krishna devotions; he then took the name A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (Ibid.). Prabhupada emigrated to the United States in 1965 at age 70 (Encyclopedic Handbook, p. 234). He was first noticed chanting in Tompkins Park in New York City; in 1966 he opened a storefront center and revived his religious magazine, Back to Godhead (initially printed in India during WWII, in 1952, and 1956) (Ibid.). This marked the beginning of ISKCON in the United States. The death of Prabhupada in 1977 generated an internal crisis in ISKCON; with no legitimate heir or power structure, the movement was quickly torn with inner conflict. While Prabhupada appointed eleven gurus to lead ISKCON several months before his death, the Governing Body Council was almost immediately in conflict with the gurus (Ibid., pp. 222–24). Legal and doctrinal conflicts led the GBC to suspend three gurus for one year, but these suspensions were soon lifted (Ibid. 230–34).The veneration of gurus began to decline after the GBC moved to ensure that the majority of initiating gurus would be appointed by the GBC (Encyclopedic Handbook, p. 240). The first serious internal crisis was generated by Kirtanananda Swami Bhaktipada, leader of ISKCON of West Virginia and founder of the New Vrindaban community. Bhaktipada was attacked in 1985 by a former member; during his recovery, another former member who blamed Bhaktipada for the dissolution of his marriage was killed in Los Angeles (this individual had previously brought a pistol to West Virginia and threatened Bhaktipada) (Ibid., p. 246). During this period Thomas Dresher, a member of New Vrindaban, participated in the murder of a former member in St. Louis; Dresher was given a life sentence (he was also later convicted of racketeering) (Ibid.). Bhaktipada was excommunicated by the GBC in 1987 after a federal investigation, and after child molestation charges against two New Vrindaban teachers (Ibid.). He was sentenced in 1991 to twenty years in prison for racketeering for amassing millions of dollars through a fund raising scam, and conspiring to murder two followers in 1983 and 1986; the sentence was reduced in 1997 to 12 years due to his failing health ("Bad Karma." One World 12.31, 1997). The GBC recently readmitted New Vrindaban, subject to an annual review for two year ("New Vrindavana Rejoins ISKCON." Hare Krishna World, July-August 1998, p. 1). ISKCON is currently undergoing another serious internal crisis. E. Burke Rochford, Jr., a sociologist who studies the organization, recently published a study in Krishna exploring instances of child abuse at ISKCON gurukalas (boarding schools) in the 1970s and 1980s. ISKCON was forced to confront the situation in 1996 when ten former Krishna students testified that they had been beaten, sexually molested, and denied medical care while boarding at ISKCON schools ("Hare Krishna Faith Details Past Abuse at Boarding Schools," New York Times, October 9, 1998). The most serious abuse allegedly occurred in Dallas, Seattle, and New Vrindaban (Ibid.). ISKCON communications director Anuttama Dasa states that the organization is currently working to "repair the damage to the kids and show them we do care as a religious society" (Ibid.). ISKCON no longer operates gurukalas in the United States (Ibid.). ISKCON has also endured several serious external crises. The most significant involves the 1983 case of George v ISKCON. Robin George, a former member, filed suit against ISKCON in 1977, alleging that she had been brainwashed by the group (International Society for Krishna Consciousness <http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~jkh8x/soc257/nrms/hare.html>); the suit followed a period in which she was moved from temple to temple to avoid being deprogrammed (Encyclopedic Handbook, p. 240). George was initially awarded $32.5 million by the jury; the judge cut the amount to $9.7 million, and an appeals court further reduced it to $3 million in 1987. The Supreme Court further reduced the damages to $75,000 (International Society for Krishna Consciousness <http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~jkh8x/soc257/nrms/hare.html>). The second major external crisis was ISKCON's loss in the ISKCON v. Lee case. The Supreme Court ruled in 1992 that airports are not public facilities, and ISKCON members can thus be prohibited by port authorities from soliciting donations (International Society for Krishna Consciousness v Lee, 505 U.S. 672 (1992)). DOCTRINES Godhead: ISKCON denies the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. They also do not hope for union with Brahma or give devotion to Vishnu or Shiva, referred to by some Christians as "the Hindu 'trinity'" (The Hare Krishnas Today, p. 3). The Hindus' gods are simply expansions or forms of Krishna, the "Supreme Personality, the Lord, the complete whole…the Absolute Truth" (Ibid.). ISKCON even teaches that Brahma contains only 78 percent of the attributes of the personal god Krishna (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, p. 13). There are three aspects to godhead in ISKCON thought: 1) Krishna, the ultimate personality, 2) the localized Krishna in the heart of all creation, and 3) the impersonal spirit Brahman (Confronting Religions from the East, Part Four: Hare Krishnas, p. 3). The contradiction of an ultimate personality, Krishna, and the impersonal entity Brahman (union with which is the goal of classical Hinduism) is not problematic for ISKCON believers. The Bhagavad-gita teaches: "Contradictory traits in Krishna's person are not at all surprising; one should not consider the characteristics of Krishna, the supreme personality of Godhead, to be actually contradictory. One should try to understand how these characteristics are employed by the supreme will of the Lord" (Bhagavad-gita, p. 203). One of the ways in which Krishna employs these seemingly contradictory characteristics is through creation. Krishna is the creator of all that exists; even the gods worshipped in other religions (including Hinduism) are simply "plenary expansions or parts of [Krishna]" (Srimad Bhagavatam, First Canto, Part Three, p. 28)the creative act is ongoing because Krishna dwells in all creation. The Bhagavad-gita says of Krishna, "The Lord is all-pervading by the expansion of His partial representation, the Supersoul, who enters into everything that is" (Bhagavad-gita, p. 538). Everything is thus "part and parcel of the Supreme Lord" (Ibid., p. 704). Jesus Christ: ISKCON teaches that Jesus, rather than being the eternal God, is instead one of the demi-god manifestations of Krishna (Ibid., p. 261). In fact, "Jesus is the son, and Krishna the Father, and Jesus is Krishna's son" (Jesus Loves Krsna, p. 26). Contrary to Christian doctrine, ISKCON teaches that Jesus only intended to serve as a guide to 1st-century Palestine: God sent Jesus to be the spiritual master of particular people in a particular time and place…he did not claim (as others claim today) that He was the only Representative Agent of the Supreme Person ever to walk the earth in the past or future (Ibid., p. 44). Instead, because Jesus is merely the manifestation (son) of Krishna (the father), Jesus worshipped Krishna (The Deceivers, p. 195-96. The mediator between God (Krishna) and humanity is Prabhupada. Only Prabhupada is referred to as "His Divine Grace" (The Strange World of the Hare Krishnas, p. 45), and it is even said of him that "Prabhupada was a world-genius, greater than Jesus" (Ibid., p. 69). He "is the ultimate standard of Krishna consciousness…[people] must give him the honor due to God, because the guru is the transparent via media or representative of God and is distributing unalloyed love of God" ("The Hare Krishna Movement." Religious Movements in Contemporary America, p. 469). Prabhupada is thus worshipped by devotees; guru paja involves offering flower petals to a wax likeness of the master (new members offer petals to a picture of Prabhupada) (Hare Krishna in America, pp. 17–8). Scripture: ISKCON accepts as scripture all the Vedic literature of Hinduism, giving special preeminence to the Bhagavad-gita (which was translated into English by Prabhupada). ISKCON is widely considered to be a fundamentalist branch of Hinduism because they interpret the stories in scripture as literal historical facts (Hare Krishna / ISKCON, p. 4). Prabhupada, when asked if it is acceptable to follow the Bible instead of Vedic literature, states, "There is no use arguing the merits of the Bible over Vedic literature. Both the Bible and the Vedic literature are scripture, and therefore they are in agreement not opposition. The only difference is that the Vedic literature contains much more specific information about God than you'll find in the Bible" ("Declaring Our Dependence on God." Back to Godhead 11.7, 1976, p. 5). Salvation: The central problem facing humanity is lust for temporal pleasures rather than love for Krishna. This lust keeps humanity trapped in the material world (Bhagavad-gita, p. 209), rather than pursuing salvation through Krishna consciousness (Ibid., p. 287). Salvation is dependent upon the Hindu concept of karma, the universal law in which good deeds must atone for bad deeds. Just as in classical Hinduism, living entities undergo reincarnation in response to karma; it is possible to be reincarnated as many as 8,400,000 times (Confronting Religions from the East, p. 7). The caste system is thus integral to ISKCON – Krishna created the caste system (Ibid., p. 11), and an individual's current position in life is a direct result of actions in past lives: "If we're saintly, we'll get a saintly body next time, but if we're doggish, we'd better prepare ourselves for a dog's life after this one. This is the law of karma, which states that for every action we perform, either good or bad, there is an appropriate reaction to be reaped either in this life or in a future life" ("Reincarnation." Back to Godhead, 11.1, 1976, p. 8). Salvation, i.e., escape from the cycle of reincarnation, is attained only through following the spiritual disciplines of ISKCON. If a devotee properly follows the disciplines, Krishna takes the individual's sins upon himself and thus atones for the negative karma (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, p. 12). Prabhupad claims, "Krsna says, 'Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear'" (quoted in Matras, Sikhas & KRSNA, p. 2). Rarandhar, who served as Western Guru, elaborates, "There is not even an alternative. Alternative means you have a choice. There is no choice. Either Krishna consciousness or finished. That's all" (Ibid.). SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINES Salvation in ISKCON depends entirely upon the efforts of the individual to follow the spiritual practices of the religion. The Bhagavad-gita states, "Everything depends on one's performance of duties in an effort to control the senses and conquer the influence of desire and anger" (Bhagavad-gita, p. 305). These spiritual disciplines include: Chanting: Chanting the "Hare Krishna" mantra is the central devotional activity of ISKCON. "In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way" (Ibid., p. 320). Devotees use a string of 108 prayer beads to assist in counting the number of times they have completed the chant; they are to chant sixteen rounds of the beads, spending an average of 1 ½ to 2 hours each day chanting (Hare Krishna in America, p. 17). Chanting the sixteen rounds amounts to 1,728 chants per day, and 630,720 chants per year. Devotees can often be seen chanting publicly, practicing what ISKCON calls sankirtan (ISKCON: The Means <http://www.iskcon.org/main/twohk/iskcon/means.htm>). Arguably the most famous instance of sankirtan in the West occurs in the George Harrison song "My Sweet Lord." Four Rules: The four rules of ISKCON are prohibitions against four degrading activities that cause humanity to submit to lustful materialism. These rules prohibit 1) gambling, 2) intoxication (prohibiting not only alcohol and drugs, but also caffeine and nicotine), 3) sexual activity outside marriage (and for any purpose other than procreation), and 4) animal slaughter (ISKCON is strictly vegetarian) (Confronting Religions from the East, pp. 20-1). ISKCON adds 64 regulative principles to the four rules, including visits to a Vishnu temple, offering items to the deity, and accepting the jurisdiction of the ISKCON spiritual masters (Ibid., pp. 21-22). Sankirtan: Sankirtan involves more than public chanting; it also involves distributing ISKCON literature. Distributing ISKCON literature is essential in the spiritual life of most member (Christ and the New Consciousness, p. 37). Members are taught that receiving ISKCON literature can result in the salvation of both member and recipient (Ibid.). The distribution of Back to Godhead magazine is so significant that the editor claims, "Talking about BTG is as good as talking about Krsna" ("Sharing Good Fortune." Back to Godhead, 28.1, 1994, p. 3). BIBLICAL RESPONSE There is only one true God (Isaiah 43:10), who is distinct from His creation (Romans 1:20-23). Jesus Christ is also God, existing from eternity (John 1:1; 5:18; 20:28). Jesus, who humbled himself and took on human nature (Philippians 2:1-11), is not the son of Krishna. Salvation is not earned by erasing karma through reincarnation; instead, humans live only once, and then face judgment from God (Hebrews 9:27). Repetition of a mantra will not result in salvation (Matthew 6:7), nor will following an extensive list of rules and rituals. Salvation is an act of God's grace, and cannot be earned through any human action (Ephesians 2:8-10). RESOURCES A Guide to Cults and New Religions, by Ronald Enroth, et al, InterVarsity Press. The essays in this volume include a chapter on ISKCON. 215 pages — $12. The Kingdom of the Cults, Thirtieth Anniversary Edition, by Walter Martin and edited by Hank Hanegraaff, Bethany House Publishers. Contains a chapter on Eastern religions (including ISKCON). Comes with a CD-ROM for cross-referencing. 703 pages — $33. | ||
| sit (sit) New member Username: sit Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 217.137.215.6 |
Hi I know alot of you think the Hare Krishnas are bad people, they aren't really. I know the authorities are slightly screwed up and that needs to be sorted urgently but the teachings are accepted almost everywhere. I know some of you have suffered abuse during the your time at the movement, you have every right to be angry my mum was bullied whilst she was there and that angers me to hell. But please just take the time to maybe go to one of the temples now and just see Krishna don't avoid going because you think you maybe brainwashed- you won't trust me- just go to see God.} | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 227 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Hello Sit. It is true I think Hare Krisnas are bad people. I also think I am bad. All people are bad. The question is where can we find truth and goodness ? Jesus is the Truth, Way and Life. I was once almost brainwashed, it was in a martial arts thing. If God wants that, I will talk to your people. I also invite you to study the Bible and use your mind to understand who is Jesus. Please note the difference here: you ask me to go to one of your temples while I ask you to read New Testament home and pray for truth. If you are looking for truth then the Holy Spirit is able to lead you when reading the New Testament. | ||
| ex_yathed (ex_yathed) Intermediate Member Username: ex_yathed Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.183.33.235 |
BEWARE !!! and be aware! ex_yathed (ex_yathed) Intermediate Member Username: ex_yathed Post Number: 176 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.183.33.235 Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 7:12 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just saw on another page of the Religious Cults and Sects page that David Alexander(aka Daveed Derush, he also goes under the name Yahshua) is evangelizing (recruiting) all over this web site with links to their newest "Free Papers"(Litmus Test). Its from a computer in Georgia so he is either at their Savannah or Brunswick community. So, if you dont know, the Twelve Tribes are considered a high control destructive fundamentalist group (cult) by countless professionals and Cult experts. You can check out there threads under Religious Cults and sects: Twelve Tribes,Community of Believers, Northeast Kingdom etc. | ||
| ex_yathed (ex_yathed) Intermediate Member Username: ex_yathed Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.183.33.235 |
As you can see, David Derush has taken my warnings to all the boards as a chance to recruit for his cult which claims they are the Only Ones and the Only Way and if your not with them, your going to the Lake of Fire for eternity or to the first death to pay for your own sins if you can. They are just like the rest of the cults on the factnet boards. To see both sides of the story go to http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/ or if you wish, you can contact me personally at exyathed@yahoo.com | ||
| springviolet (springviolet) New member Username: springviolet Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.29.121.135 |
Why did I leave iskcon? Because they are not true to their philosophy. Its not about beign a 'bad person.' There is good and bad in everyone but the iskcon authorities and some 'devotees' prefer to be grossly ignorant of others' feelings and of their true responsibilities. Before I teamed up with these people I was warned, but I did not listen. Now I am reading that in New Vrindavan where I recently came back from, a man's corpse was dug up- he was another person who had been murdered. The temples themselves are terribly mismanaged. More than that, where do the donations REALLY go to? They certainly do not go back into the community, to the needy, to other humanitarian causes. What is truly disturbing is how iskcon does not at all integrate itself witht he community it resides in; they rather stay to themselves it seems and the us and them thinking cannot be denied. It is either the 'karmis' or devotee. What is a "devotee" anyway? Just a term. another materialistic label. In addition to depriving inmates of sleep, practices and thinking in iskcon are self explanatorily obsessive compulsive. Chanting 16 rounds, 365 says each and every year? Sure the BG and Holy Bible may say to "constantly sing the name of the Lord," but iskcon takes it to a spirtitually perilous level. Being this is a man made religion, they follow what the guru says to do instead, seeign him as faultless as a god. PPD did not know I exist, nor thousands of other individuals! He is absent from the body. I remember being Ordered to "pay obeisances" at his lifeless effigy, on the floor, at his concrete/clay feet and that was the LAST time. I was tired of being ordered, chastized, screamed at and intimidated. I could never do anything right...and constantly walked on eggshells. The authorities abuse their power and have litte care for their submissive underlings. Excuse me. The Real God gave me my mind and it is not up for brainwashing auction. Vegetarianism? I have something to sayabout that. If these spritual people are so hung up about the issue, why don't they EVER try to actually protect, speak on behalf of and advocate true animal protection? They have their operating propaganda. And they use it. "Vegetarianism," right. And they make no eddort to even be loving to their fellow human beings, in the temple or not. There is alot of angry, victimized people. I remember about two years ago- on a fete day- the prez was attacked in the Los Angeles temple. I was a foot away from the young gal who was very obviously upset over an apparent abuse issue. She was not treated with any compassion: only anger by male authorities who were protecting Their Temple! The things that happen at these temples just downright do not happen in churches or other places of worship. Yes, rapes and the like can happen, verbatim, anywhere, but the iskcon places have a VERY high percentage of people with severe emotional issues, anger, ego and disregard for compassion. The temples do NOT screen their applicants; all looks peachy to outside visitors who naturally think the inmates live according to their own "you are a spirit soul" philosophies. There is no love in the temples. I have counseled so many hurt people who will NEVER ever go back to any iskcon facility, that was how bad they encounted presidents as wel as underlings. I met alot of good friends- on the level, emotionally unencumbered people- in iskcon, but 8 to 9 out of ten of inmates and authorities were simply unkind and abusive. Don't think iskcon and 'krishna consciousness' is the solution for all happiness either; I have just now been reading some very, very disturbing things about a GBC member I was serving, who I thought the world of and that devotees absolutely idolize. And too, alot of 'gurus' are on thier way out, it is said. And a member of my family asked me, breathless, "but WHERE did they get all that MONEY for that palace? In all my dozen trips to Europe I have never seen anything likethat place..." Since then, even the small research I have done has kept my thinking- Ah-hah!- wheels spinning. Just don't be decieved and end up worshipping someone else's god. We are already warned in the Bible to not bow down to idols. I do not think PPD was a bad man but neither can I beleive he was sanctified. Love is not iskcon, and I do not know if PPD is independent of iskcon as somer say, but fact is many of us never ever knew him. Not only that, but many declare that his saying in the books are simply Bizarre. Then too, reviews about iskcon people say, "Oh, they are so kind! They gave me this or that- that banana, that book." That does not make someone a giving or compassionate person. Look at thetemples: they give inmates roofs over their heads and food, but what do they REALLY give humanity? They stay in the temples and betray their 'guru's' so called god conscious philosophy! And if there is a loophole or problem they deny it and put on this It all belongs to krsna face! (Trust me, its NOT all good, at least in the iskcon temple). You can read things that simply make you break down and cry. I "joined" iskcon because I thought I had found people who shared my yearnings and desires for spirituality and I wanted to help heal people, but it turned out I had given my trust over to the wrong faction. So joining the temple to live in a spiritual commune is not serving this krsna person: it is serving the temple, and the bigwigs who run it and the sideways devotees who live privy to it. You will NOT be helping people as much as you think; book distibution is not about clearing confused souls and awakening them to grace: it is only proposed profit for the temple is all, and there are quotas in most locations. Now krsna seems like a sort of fable to me that I can no longer even touch; whether it is real or not is not my place to go monkeying around with. There is a Higher Power but carrying on as the krsna's do about it is not only unhealthy but delusional. If they can't follow the best of their dedication the Ten Commandment, then thier "regulatiions" are simply propaganda. It is not shameful to be in a body. It is not 'dirty' to have attraction for sex. Dirty, dirty, dirty...is what these iskcon children are being taught and it creates shame in them among other things. Think too of all the water that's wasted down the shower tube because these people think and teach that sleeping and beds are filthy, that this and that is a contaminated state. The same terrible things are repated over and over again, how 'contaminated' and unfortunate we are to be the sum of who we are: "an unfortunate lump of ignorance." Pardon me, but I have actually come to feel differently. France is right about classifying this group as a cult and restricting their activities! } | ||
| mksugumaran (mksugumaran) Junior Member Username: mksugumaran Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 210.212.245.147 |
Do you know who is Krishna in Mahabharatha? He is similar to Jesus claiming himself as God by possessing some extra normal powers. Krishna and his Whole relatives were killed in the war between themselves for the Power of Kingdom. After the Great war of Gurushethram. The Phelosophy of ISKCON is non-sense. In that sect You are praying a man who lived immoral life. He is also a funny fellow who knows that he is the son of God and all others are not. How is it possible. If he is God every one of us are God only. We are not different from him in any way. Please understand and Do not follow the people of ISKCON by seeing their Kudumi's. They are the idiots making all others also idiots. | ||
| patricklansdowne (patricklansdowne) New member Username: patricklansdowne Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.163.137.90 |
Dear springviolet, I just read your recent post above (March 5th) and agreed with everything you said in it 100%. What you are talking about matches my experience in ISKCON completely. It is an unhealthy place to be spiritually. Actually when I left ISKCON it was because of the unhealthyness of that organization. I still considered myself a follower of that religion for a couple of years afterward. But once I had freed myself from that unhealthy environment and began to shed all the programming I had swallowed fort something like 7 or 8 years, I began to really investigate the teachings and so-called "philosophy" that was taught by Bhaktivedanta Swami. After a couple of years of really objectively considering them, only then did I reject them along with the ISKCON organization too. I think B. Swami (I don't like to call him by the name given to him by his disciples, i.e. "Prabhupada" or "the master at whose feet all other masters sit, because I don't believe he is the master at whose feet all other masters sit...), was just a normal ordinary pious Hindu man, who was tremendously naive about western/American culture. And the philosophy in his books is quite bizzare, full of many derogetory narrow minded and fanatical statements(towards women, other cultures, and so-called "non-devotees") and extremely unethical statements and ideas. I'm going to write up something about that I think over the weekend and give some examples. If any one is considering joining this ISKCON organization, I would suggest to you that you will find genuine spirituality elsewhere. | ||
| colt (colt) New member Username: colt Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 66.8.132.146 |
I am wondering if there is any one out there that is currently voting on the settlement? | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 336 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.244.33 |
dear Colt, how would you settle with somebody that tries to poison you ? take half of the poison just to have a win-win situation ? let me know | ||
| colt (colt) New member Username: colt Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 66.8.132.146 |
That is what I am trying to get a feel for. I can't imagine my life is worth as little as 500.00. But at the same time do I keep on fighting to have someone tell my what happened to me isn't worth anything because that is the way the law is written. I was just trying to get other peoples feelings. Also I would like to try to connect with other people that went through what I went through (who are not still currently invloved in the religion). | ||
| billibo (billibo) New member Username: billibo Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 198.54.202.226 |
Springvoilet, may I please use your messages posted here for our christian devotional web site? Patrick gave permission some ago and believe it or not, not two days after posting his message (the one you replied to) we had our web site hacked and loads of filth loaded into our comments section! We need to get out there and warn all about the hazards of getting into something that is not good for them. You can post your answer here. If you have Patricks's email addy, say so and I will contact him to give you mine. i dare not post it here. these guys can be very vindictive! Regards | ||
| berna (berna) New member Username: berna Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 209.145.197.125 |
Can anyone contribute information about an ex-ISKON person called Siddhaswarupananda aka Chris Butler? He left ISKON with his personal followers and now has an organization called Science of Identity Foundation based in Hawaii. Also maintains Chaitanya Missions, some sort of youth centers in the Philippines. Altho they dress "normally" and keep a very low profile they seem to pursue some agenda that involves politics and many businesses. (All for the glory of God of course) They seem to carry on the exact recruting methods and coercive, intidimidating practices used by ISKON. Parents who are struggling with children influenced by these people are struck by the complete lack of compassion (love)when told that they have caused harm to these children. They are predators with no compassion for the prey. Ruthless. The exact opposite response of true spirituality and love. Any further information will be appreciated by victims as these people are very exclusive, secretive and paranoid. Information is hard to come by. | ||
| yourmaster (yourmaster) New member Username: yourmaster Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.20.127.133 |
I was a member of the corrupt organization known as Iskcon. I was a member in the mid 70's and knew many of the big wigs and prabhupada and sidda, too. They are prabhu frauds. Frauds who worship power and glory that is bestowed upon them. Steer clear of the likes of them because you will have to deprogram yourself for a few years to become free of the brainwashing they give you, I have many stories about the devotees and the frauds. | ||
| kali (kali) New member Username: kali Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 209.145.197.133 |
Some concerned parents are looking for help with more detailed information about Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda aka Chris Butler. The targeting of vulnerable children and the sending of young children to their so-called "schools" in the Philippines is a concern. Any information about Butler's activities past or present is needed. Thanks for any input. | ||
| redpurusha (redpurusha) Junior Member Username: redpurusha Post Number: 41 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.36.226.248 |
Patrick, thanks for the honesty and for sharing your personal story. What I found similar to your story in my life is how I really got interested in spiritual matters at about 19 as well (like many I'm sure). The thing is, and Hinduism teaches, is that everyone has their own individual dharma. The trick is to find one that best fits you at this particular stage of your life or spiritual development. There are as many paths to God as there are people, but practically speaking there are some specific paths which some people might find work better for them than others. These include (but are not limited to) path of good action (karma yoga), path of discrimination (wisdom yoga), path of meditation, path of chanting (mantra yoga) and path of devotion (bhakti yoga). ie, any good christian who does good works to help others is also a karma yogi. A catholic who prays the holy rosary using his rosary beeds says 10 hail Mary's etc, is doing a type of mantra yoga. And from what I read here, the focus of the Hare Krishna is also the chanting path but also the others. So, maybe someone who enters this group, feeling very inspired by such a way of religious expression, may fit just fine and get great results from his association. The point is, it's not for everybody (just as in any other group) but maybe it is right for some people. I know I was never drawn to it. | ||
| mksugumaran (mksugumaran) Intermediate Member Username: mksugumaran Post Number: 136 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 220.226.39.229 |
Dear redpurusha, you are also misunderstood the paths explained in Hinduism like most of the Hindus. Mantra, Yantra and Tantra are the three named technics in Hinduism. As you think the Mantra should have to be joined with some Yantra using a Tantra (Technique). So the above three are interrelated. You have said some snake/serpentine technique somewhere in this board. For that Kundalini yoga also consists of these three Yantra, Mantra, Tantra combined only. If one is used knowing the others properly will end up with danger or no use. yours, mksugumaran | ||
| bhaktaaaron New member Username: bhaktaaaron Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 66.19.68.181 |
I don't think that any of the derogatory statements made about ISKCON on here are viable at all. When we talk about ISKCON we are talking about Spiritual Life. It is not right to mix up our doubts and fears with a society that is only trying to do Absolute Good. Sure I have dealt with enough nonsense and that is because some of the devotees I know do not understand to do things in Moderation. That has also been my problem. I'm sure that there are demonic devotees out there and maybe even some swami's have possible done some things that are questionable but we are talking about transcendental subject matter. I find it very sad that just because some people involved in ISKCON that have done some horrible things end up maligning the Society either through their actions or what others conceive of them as doing. Have we read about the other so-called religions lately? Christianity is steeped in murder and slaughter but can we blame this religion in toto? I don't, every time I read the Bible I feel this wonderful feeling of Love shower over me no matter what I am reading. Whenever I read the Bhagavad-Gita all I can say is that I feel like I know Lord Krsna and that He is real and He wants us to pass this test, no matter what nonsense we deal with can we be tolerant in this world of illusion and through all of it still stay with Him. I used to have a lot of Anger towards God but a lot of that is going away now. Let's not blame ISKCON but let's warn others in a respectful manner about the ones who are the troublemakers. Let's not judge a whole wonderful Society that can help this world if We who are actually that Society and I see it innate all around me in everyone that I know surrounded by devotees that have forgotten to have a Service Attitude. We do not have to give up on everything all we need is Common Sense and that means actually listening to Lord Krsna who is here right now with each of us at this very moment! Hare Krsna | ||
| yourmaster New member Username: yourmaster Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.20.127.133 |
The prabhu frauds are still out there trying to get your time and money! | ||
| yourmaster New member Username: yourmaster Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.20.127.133 |
Hare Krishna is a fraud religion. I know because I used to be one of the brainwashed followers. Prabhu Fraud was the leader of the group in the beginning. Then the other Frauds took over after Prabhu Fraud died. Then the organization became even more corrupt and is now the laughing stock of the religious world. It is best to reject all religious authority and find out for oneself what is real. In fact, that is the only way to find out. | ||
| inkorrekt Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 130.253.32.143 |
HINDUISM IS NOT A RELIGION. It is a socioeconomic way of life mingled with mythology as demonstrated by the Caste system..No one knows where we came from, why we are here and where we are headed to. There are so many explanations. This means you can believe whatever you want. In one of the passages, Even krishna himself states that he is a Liar. How could a liar be a God? | ||
| inkorrekt Intermediate Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 118 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.15.1 |
BAKTAARON: Can yu tell me who this sacrifice is? SANSKRIT SCRIPTURES written 4000 years ago describe a perfect sacrifice. Who is this? 9 characteristics of the Prajapati Sacrifice: 1. The Sacrificial animal must be blameless Rgvedic Purusasukta 10:90, 1-15 2. A creeping plant of the forest must be weaved and put on its head.(Vedic rituals) 3. It should be closely tied up to the sacrificial pillar(Sayanacarya's Commentary on Purusasukta. Rgveda 10:90:1-15) 4. Its four legs must be nailed and blood should be shed (Vedic Rituals) 5. The cloth which covers the animal should be shared by 4 priests 6. Its bones should not be broken 7. It should be given some wine 8. After the sacrifice, irt should be returned to life (Rgveda 10:90; 1-15) 9. Its meat should be eaten(Sathapathabrahmana 5.1.1.2) According to the Vedas, Prajapati means the Supreme God. Prajapati Sacrifice means the Sacrifice of God himself. | ||
| yourmaster New member Username: yourmaster Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.21.104.153 |
All of so called religion is nothing more than dead memories. It is all just imagination, images created from contact with other brainwashed fools. It is born of fear and is a way to hide from the hard work of facing life and finding out about life thru hard work. These simpleton religions are the hobo's way out. A way of escape for the simpleton and lazy bum hare krishna is a total farce. A religion full of contradictions. Do yourself a favor and grow up. Drop all religions now and start to see yourself without the illusion of religion causing a problem. |
