| Author | Message | ||
     godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 197 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.130 |
There are a lot of comments by mormons stating nonmormons are here to attack mormons and mormonism. We do not hate the mormon people. I personally have family who are members of the mormon church who I love dearly and would fight to the death to protect them. I also have friends who are mormons. This is a simple definition of orthodox Christianity: 1. Basing salvation (the right to live eternally with God) entirely on the grace and merit of Jesus Christ, by placing faith in Him and Him alone (not in any other person, institution, or your own personal merit). This is the essence of the gospel. 2. The acceptance of the bible alone as the word of God and rule of faith. Mormons have chosen men and accepted them as 'mouthpieces of God' and consider them the only authority given by God. Let us see who attacks who and put an end once and for all to the notion that christians are the attackers: Nephi 1:3 And he (an angel) said unto me: these are the nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles. 4. And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church. 5. And the angel said unto me: Behold the fomration of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and thrtureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. 6. And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it. 12. And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, (Joseph Smith), who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many wateres, and beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land. Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, J.S. History, 1:19: All christian churches are wrong, an abomination, all people who profess are corrupt. Teachings of Joseph Smith, 298: Christians are ripening for the damnation of Hell. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 16:46: Catholics and Protestants are nothing more than the whore of Babylon. John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 6:157: The God of Christianity is but an idol and a loathsome, filthy, debauched, degraded monster. Are these simply hard words spoken in love?, or mean-spirited and contentious? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 198 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.130 |
Now I would like to hear once more why mormons want to be called a christian church. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Godchild Are there any Christian denominations that you know of that aren't Mormon, that disagree with your two definitions? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 204 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.200 |
Yaakov, My answer would have to be no. Though many groups call themselves christian, if they teach any other doctrine (plural gods, salvation by works, or giving divinity to men) they are not christian. If your question had been 'Are there any denominations that call themselves christian who disagree with the above definition, I would answer yes, of course. But, having said that, the only other denomination, because they have changed and added to the scriptures, is the Jehovahs Witness group, that I know of. Even Mohamed claimed he was Jesus' literal brother. Christians understand we become children of God by adoption, (unless we were born Jew). There are many Jews who have accepted Christ as their savior, therefore they are christian Jews. To a true Christian, Jesus is not just a sinless man, a great teacher, a healer of the sick; but God in the flesh. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 205 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.200 |
"You are turning away so soon...to a different gospel."--Galatians 1:6 The Holy Bible gives us warnings of false gospels. 1.Salvation through anything other than faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:12). 2.A refusal to see Jesus as the eternal God in the flesh, our only Savior (John 1). 3.Giving more importance to the word of man than to the Word of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). 4.Leaders who do not provide Christlike guidance through careful biblical instruction (1 Timothy 4:6; Jude 4). By reading the gospel and imprinting its words on our hearts, we will not be led into other 'gospels of men', and we won't be deceived. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 361 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: Define the word of God in the context you set it above | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 362 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: No, your usual rediculing and whining that I should know, blah Blah is not good enough. Your statement is so braod, it could exclude many faiths you do accept, so tell us what you really mean - and where God gave this definition, otherwise it is just yours and means nothing to Christianity. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 209 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.35 |
I wasn't talking to you, joesdad. Go away. You are too dense to understand scripture. You need to do some studying, (please pray that God will lead you to understanding first). Then come back and speak about God and his Word. You know full well when christians are speaking of scripture, we are not talking about the bom or the watchtower. Dense, dense, dense. Go back to your snadbox and play. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 210 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.35 |
Did you say whether you had ever gone to another church before becoming a mormon? Surely, you got some scripture teaching there. If not, it's not too late to start. Don't you have a couple of days vacation left. Doesn't your family enjoy your company, or some mormon friends, or somebody? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 211 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.35 |
If you disagree with my definition of christianity, why don't you go ask some other christians. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 212 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.35 |
Just think of all the widows you could be visiting or the sick, or meetings you are missing. | ||
| x11 (x11) Member Username: x11 Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 208.186.103.20 |
To: All Re: My last post This will be my last post here on factnet. I want to express my thanks to everybody here who posts on a regular basis including Joesdad and Solopilot, as everyone here has brought me a little closer to the truth. I have no personal grudge towards any individual or single person that has posted here, however when a person claims to be part of a system that has spiritually raped me since birth I tend to get a little frustrated, so my appollogies to those I may have offended in my posts that have been malicious in nature. The reason this is my last post here is I feel that at this point all the subjects covered here have been suffecently debated by both sides and and the pro-truth(anti-mormon) posters are continually answering and re-answering the same questions over and over again, while the LDS posters duck and dodge questions presented to them. I don't mean any offense by this JD and SP, I really feel that if a professional was to disect these threads and create profiles of what the intent of each poster was, we would find this to be a pattern.(he/she would also find that I was/am very pissed off at mormonism) Spiritual Rape The tactics used by some individuals and groups to create loyalty are flat out wrong and distasteful and should be outlawed. Since the subject here is mormonism thats what I will address. THE MORMON RELIGION ROBBED ME OF AN EXPERIENCE one that can never be undone given back or restored to its original nature, the experience I speak of is a life of learning and growing towards the unbiased truth of the nature of God. I know it is never too late to begin this journey however something tragic has happened to me and countless others who have been invovled with the LDS faith, what has happened and continues to happen, is comparable to being physically raped, except on a spritual level. The reason I use the word "rape" is simply because mormonism is something that is forced upon the individual and is accepted in contrast to suffering according to LDS doctorine, when you feed this kind of stuff to an impressionable child the child automatically will grow up to think that they have to follow mormonism in order to find that higher state or "kingdom of heaven" that resides in each individual, the problem with this is that mormonism does not provide this higher state it only pretends to, and then keeps its members in a constant state of "working towards" so the individual is always occupied with earthly matters that will never lead to the real truth of the nature of our Saviour. Its been a long battle The truth is, that the battle between good and evil far exceeds the knowledge of any of us posters here on factnet. The tactics being used are far more advanced then anything known or available to human beings at this time, we must remember that this is a spiritual war and the weapons used dont fall under the human scope of comprehension. What we do know we find in the bible, and simply put: our only hope is Jesus Christ period. He knows all and nothing is impossible to him, and yet we take certain passages from the bible and create whole new religions that contain the "fullness of the gospel" and other such things that cause many people to become lost and confussed on the battlefield when the equivelent of grenades, gunfire, atomic bombs, and flame throwers are going off at our feet. In my opinion and I must express that this is only my OPINION the LDS religion is and was the last attempt of satan to reap souls for his harvest, satan knows without any doubt he will lose and that time is racing against him. We see throughout the bible that he did not appear as some evil and scary being but as an "angel of light" and so forth, he was someone who promised beauty, knowledge, and harmony but his tactics never changed or worked and never will. They have however been exposed by Christ for us to see and be aware of, not for us to fight against, just to be aware of so we do not stray from his protective loving arms, as he does the fighting for us. Mormonism falls unquestionably and without doubt under the catagory of things the bible say to watch out for, the only question is which book is correct? I know where I stand but it seems that certain groups or sects don't, and the only reason people like the posters here fight so hard to make this point is that the bom and bible speak of two different Beings or Saviours and yet mormons teach that both are correct, HOW? Some say that the greatest trick satan ever pulled was convincing people that he did not exsist, in my oppinion the greatest trick he ever pulled was convincing people that he did in fact exsist but it was somebody else who was satan and he was god. Bible believeing Christians can see the fallacy in mormoism very clearly because the bible tells of these types of things coming forth, I think all the threads here could very easily be broken down into one: Which book is of satan the bom or the Bible? Using the proccess of elimination one could very easily determain which was which. I know Christ lives and no longer need to debate the issue as to whether which religion is true as far as contending for the faith goes I will leave these threads with an exerpt from one of my favorite philosofers/author James Allen: "and with the invisable hands of the spirit she had built up, with the precious stones of faith, hope, joy, devotion, and love, a fair temple of light, whose glorifying radience was ever round about her. It beamed in her eye; it shone through her countenance; it vibrated in her voice; and all who came into her presence felt its captivating spell. I have faith that who and what I believe in will shine forth. I thank you all for your posts and words that have brought me closer to the truth. God Bless EVERYONE. X11 | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 213 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.35 |
I know. Call some elders and ask if you can go with them to the door to door fast offering collections. You sure don't seem to have much to do for a good outstanding mormon. Does that priesthood holding mean anything to you? What? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 214 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.35 |
steelsword and x11, the Holy Bible has a whole list of things the priests wore in preparation for entering the temple (aaron, for example). I don't recall a figleaf apron being mentioned, do you? | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 383 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
GC You didn't have to toss that last nonsense in, you could have just answered the question. I was asking because you defined "Orthodox Christianity" instead of just "Christianity". I was wondering if there was a difference. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 216 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.93 |
Sorry, Yaakov, I'll admit I enjoy pushing joesdad's buttons. He seems to ask for it. That's who (you probably knew) I was aiming the rest of the nonsense at. Is there a difference between orthodox Judaism and Judaism? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 364 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Sorry love, but all you end up doing is showing yourself up. It's a real pity that while most of the rest of us are trying to achieve some good, you continuosly engage in immature and puposely offensive ridicule. When i first started posting here you tried at least at sensible conversation - but now resort to name calling - how sad - that is why I now tend to ignore anything you post, showing it the contempt you deserve - any chance you can sort yourself out? Are you able to answer the question? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 218 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.231 |
ST Mark 7:1 Then came together unto him the pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem. 2. And when they saw some of his diciples eat bread with defiles, that is to say, with unwashen hands, they found fault. 3. For the pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. 4. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessils, and of tables. 5. Then the pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? 6. He answered and said unto them,Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hyprocrites, as it is written, This people honorouth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9. And he said unto them,Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Orthodoxy signifies right belief or purity of faith. Right belief is not merely subjective, as resting on personal knowledge and conviction, but is in accordance with the teaching and direction of an absolute intrinsic authority, which is Christ, and is guided by the Holy Ghost. Paganism is used as the equivalent of Polytheism. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Is there a difference between orthodox Judaism and Judaism? Yes. Judaism is the name of the entire religion. Orthodox Judaism is one of the three biggest denominations of Judaism. The other two are Conservative Judaism and Reform Judaism. I had thought that Christianity was divided into three main branches as well: Orthodox (or Eastern Orthodox?), Catholicism, and Protestantism. So, when you listed those two definitions I was unsure if you were referring to one of the branches or the whole tamale. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 219 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.42 |
yaakov, Now I have learned something new and I thank you for clearing that up. If you don't mind, I will expound on that for a moment. The word Catholic (Katholikes from Katholou) means 'throughout the whole-or universal'. It occurs in the Greek classics, and was freely used by the earlier christian writers in what we may call its primitive and non-ecclesiastical sense. The Catholic Church (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110. The words run "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal (Katholike) chruch." Cyril remarks, "Now it is called Catholic because it is throught the owrld, from one end of the earth to the other". The word Catholic does not seem to be added to the creed anywhere in the West til the 4th century. (I believe before the 4th century, there were Christians who were diciples of Christ without ever joining the organized Catholic Church). Creed comes from the Latin 'credo' meaning "I believe". I hope this might clear up some confusion (not only for you but others also). | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 386 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Nope, I’m still confused. Let me try asking me original question again. Your first post here said: This is a simple definition of orthodox Christianity: 1. Basing salvation (the right to live eternally with God) entirely on the grace and merit of Jesus Christ, by placing faith in Him and Him alone (not in any other person, institution, or your own personal merit). This is the essence of the gospel. 2. The acceptance of the bible alone as the word of God and rule of faith. When you say “Orthodox Christianity”, are you referring to one branch of Christianity or the entire religion? P.S. I having a lot of trouble posting here lately. I keep getting "Internal Service Error". (Message edited by Yaakov on June 02, 2005) | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 223 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.51 |
There are no branches of Orthodox Christianity. Either you believe God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are ONE, and that the Holy Bible is God's (breathed) WORD, or you cannot be a true (orthodox)Christian. Many think they are but they have perverted (changed and added)to God's Word. God became man, that man being Jesus Christ. Look, I just can't make this shorter. The origin of the name of Jesus: Iesous, Jeshua or Jehoshua, meaning "Jehovah's salvation". The Greek name is connected with the verb Iastia, to heal. Therefore, some of the Greek fathers used (Esebius). (I know you don't believe in the New Testament but nonetheless) Christians are told in the book of Matthew and Luke that an angel appeared to Mary and told her she would have a child, and his name would be called Jesus. Christ, Christos is the Greek equivelant of the Hebrew word Messias, meaning 'annointed'. According to the old law, Priests, kings, and prophets were supposed to be annointed for their respective offices; now, the Christ or the Messias, combines this threefold Dignity in His person.Christ was always a title rather than a proper name until after the resurrection. , when the title gradually passed into a proper name. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Godchild There are no branches of Orthodox Christianity. Are there any branches of “Christianity”? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 224 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.55 |
If you are talking about denominations, then of course there are branches, but these are not the branches I am speaking about. When speaking of being a branch of Christianity, the Bible tells us that if the branch (each of us)does not bear fruit, they will wither and die. If people hold to the doctrines of the Holy Bible, this cannot happen. The branches will grow and bear fruit. Many denominations, because they do not follow the Lord's Word, are therefore not a branch of Orthodox Christianity. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 389 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Whew, godchild. I've seen you complain about Joesdad dancing around, but you are a pretty good two-stepper yourself. Just forget it, I'm throwing in the towel on this one. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Yaakov, Orthodox: Adhearing to the accepted & traditional and established faith,especially in religilon. What Gc is trying to say is their are no Branches in Orthodox Christianity , because they all adhear to the essential doctrines of Christ teachings,such as : 1. Born of a virgin 2. God in the Flesh 3. Only through Him(Christ Jesus) salvation 4. Died on a cross and was Resurected on the 3rd Day 5. Trinity (God in Three Persons) 6. The Last High Preist 7. The Savior these are Just a Few. Denominations Come about due not to essential Doctrine ,but, periferal Doctrine, such the practrice of worship, How they commune with God , types of music, dress, etc. To be a Christian you must adhear to the teachings of Christ. Christian: A follower of Christ. The Mormons deny the Orthodox veiw of Christ. They do not beleive he is God in the Flesh, but a God & the first creation of GOD the Father. They do not beleive in the virgin birth Conceived of the Holy Spirit. So all Christian are united in Essential Doctrine and not Branched, but are denominated because of periferal Doctrine. I'm sure there is still confusion. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 233 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.9 |
Thank you, steelsword. Yaakov, I hope you understand steelsword's explanation because I agree with what he says. It's kind of like putting bananas into a vanilla pudding. It's no longer a vanilla pudding, but a banana pudding. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 169 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
GC when you put it that way it makes me hungry for gods word lol Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 234 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.67 |
smiles (since factnet won't show it), Nulla. I might add, once you put bananas in a vanilla pudding, it is impossible to get every bit it of banana back out to return it to its vanilla flavor. Same with changing or adding to God's Word. The pudding loses its flavor and the bananas get mushy and brown from sitting around uneaten. (Now instead of a nice vanilla pudding, what do you have?) Inedible and undigestable soppy glom! | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 391 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Hi Steelsword Thank you for clearing that up. I’d much rather get a question answered than not. I re-read the exchanges between Godchild and myself. We appear to have mis-communicated over the words “denominations” and “branches”. I think these are synonymous words. You and he appear to treat them as different words. What Gc is trying to say is their are no Branches in Orthodox Christianity Yeah, this is what I couldn’t understand. I use this site World Religion Statistics as a reference. It shows the major branches of Christianity as being Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox. This site shows “Orthodox Christianity” as just being one branch of the entire religion. Indeed, it is actually the smallest of these three major branches. To be a Christian you must adhere to the teachings of Christ. Yes, this is how I personally define a Christian. This is a simple definition of orthodox Christianity: 1. Basing salvation (the right to live eternally with God) entirely on the grace and merit of Jesus Christ, by placing faith in Him and Him alone (not in any other person, institution, or your own personal merit). This is the essence of the gospel. 2. The acceptance of the bible alone as the word of God and rule of faith. I see now that this is just for your one branch. So, I will continue to stick with the generic one sentence definition above. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.26 |
Yaakov, Do you have a description of who Isaiah 43 is speaking about? If so, would you please share? Thanks | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.168.62.128 |
And, Yaakov, may I add Psalm 22 to Vivian's query? I have also always wondered why the Masoretic text changes the passage, "...a pack of evildoers closes in upon me; They have pireced my hands and feet..." to "...Like the lion my hands..."--which , to be honest, makes absolutely no sense. The Alexandrian Codex reads as the former, as do all the most ancient extant manuscripts in either the Hebrew or the Greek. I asked a professor when he was visiting from hebrew university once, but he had no answer... In His Grace, miki | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Advanced Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 559 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
pointlessshrew I have also always wondered why the Masoretic text changes the passage, "...a pack of evildoers closes in upon me; They have pireced my hands and feet..." to "...Like the lion my hands..."--which , to be honest, makes absolutely no sense. It is not correct to say that the Fantastic Four was a knock-off the the Incredibles, because the Fantastic Four was created before the Incredibles. Similarily, I am amazed that you are stating that the Masoretic text changed the passage to "Like a lion". Hello, is anyone home?!! The Tanakh came thousands of years before your christian bible. The correct question is why did the greek translators change the text from "like a lion" to "pierced". The answer is that the bible was re-written and changed by the christians to attempt to make it point to your pierced man as being a deity. I have a suggestion, read the entire Psalm 22, not just verse 17. David (the writer of this Psalm) uses lots of animal metaphors. Verse 7 "I am a worm", Verse 13 "Many bulls surround me", Verse 17 "Dogs surround me", Verse 22 "Deliver me from the lion's mouth" and "Horns of wild oxen rescue me". And yet, yall are unable to see that that "Like a lion" in verse 17 makes sense. Do you really think that David is complaining about literal lions, dogs, and bulls?? (Message edited by Yaakov on August 06, 2005) | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Advanced Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 560 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
godchild Yaakov, Do you have a description of who Isaiah 43 is speaking about? If so, would you please share? It is obviously the Nation of Israel, everything fits. Working through the chapter in order: God created and formed us, God singled us out by name, We passed through water at the Red Sea, The Pillar of Flame did not scorch us, Egypt gave us ransom when they released us from the House of Bondage, we were gathered from all directions, we were God's witnesses at Mount Sinai, we are God's servant and Nation of priests, and on and on. God is directly referring in much of the chapter to the Exodus from Egypt. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.138.185.204 |
Actually, Yaakov, the histories that I have read all state that the Septuagint predates the Masoretic text by many centuries. Likewise, all archeological discoveries of ancient manuscripts that I have seen from the past three-quarter's century state that the Septuagint is, in many places, more reliable and exacting than the Masoretic text. I am open to your treatise to the contrary, however. I also bring up the Council of Jamneh again, here, because my understanding is that the reason for the translation of the Masoretes was to deny the Septuagint as Scripture because the first century Church was using it to show the fulfillment of Messianic prophesies found in it. That is where my understanding of the "change" comes from. As to David's use of literary devices employing animals, I am fully aware that these are symbolic. But in my readings the verse makes far more sense--in context and to exclusion of the whole--in the former rather than the latter. Thanks for your help. In His Grace, miki |
