| Author | Message | ||
     Susan |
Years ago my parents, my sister, and I attended a branch of Faith Assembly in Chicago which preached the teachings of Hobart Freeman. I can't remember the name of the man that taught this branch except his first name was Terry. My parents eventually left this church (cult) only after my sister died from seizures. She refused to go to the doctor to be treated, because of the teaching of that man. I want to know what happened to the man that taught at the Chicago branch. He took so much money from people that could not afford it. When my sister died, he did not even attend her funeral or visit our home. The guilt my parents felt over her death was horrible. I can't believe people still believe in his teachings. | ||
| michael markley |
Hi susan <i,m sorry to hear about your sisters death, my name is michael and I have studied the doctrine of Dr Hobart Freeman ,and must say that his teaching was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the truth ,I,m not sure who this terry is that was involved with your local church, or if He was teaching sound doctrine.Please understand that Jesus is alive today and still heals and keeps His promises,all you need is the faith of a grain of mustard seed | ||
| Anonymous |
I was raised by the doctrine of Hobart Freeman, and I have numerous health problems today as a result. We attended the 'Glory Barn', and yes, it was a barn. We were strongly encouraged not to seek any medical attention, not even preventative. I saw people die from treatable illness and injury. | ||
| Christa Unger |
Hi Susan, I'm so sad to hear about your sister's death, and the anguish your family has gone through. Hobart Freeman was a nut, there is no nicer way to say it. He was a cult leader, and lead many astray. I'm glad to hear that you are no longer involved in the Faith Assembly. I hope that eventually you will find a more stable church, and that your love for God will be strong. God will always be faithful, and gentle. I will be thinking of you and your family, and pray for God to be near to you. | ||
| Anonymous |
Susan, It's a terrible thing that happened to your sister. Unfortunately I'm not sure who the Terry is that you refer to. I believe that I can find out though, I have many friends who grew up in the Glorybarn. Express an interest on this board and I'll do my best to find out. I've always had an interest in Faith Asembly and am more than willing to ask questions for you. I was born and raised in the area of Indiana where "Dr." Freeman "taught". The Glorybarners (I'll back up the previous post stating it really was a barn) actually had a farily large, and uneasy, presence in our small town. Some say as many as 2,000 people in our area were members -- this may seem insignificant compared to Chicago, but it's a fair ammount for rural Noble and Kosciusko counties. As an elementary school student (1980-1985)I can remember 5-10 students in each of my classes who would leave the room during birthday parties and any type of holiday celebration. My teachers would never explain but my parents told me they were Glorybarners and changed the subject. In many ways the Glorybarners were looked down upon by others in our community who viewed them as cult members, not as followers of a branch of Christianity. Regardless of what Micheal Malarky said in a previous post, Dr. Freeman hurt many, many people in our small town. The American Family Foundation reports that over 100 members died as a result of Dr. Freeman's teachings. Children weren't given innoculations, corrective lenses, or even seemingly insignificant topical medications for things such as poison ivy and diaper rash. I've heard stories of people dying from diabetes and pneumonia -- I even remember a baby dying of what I later found out was meningitis. Her parents were convicted of reckless homicide and neglect of a dependent in the mid-80s. Another baby also died of meningitis, but the charge of reckless homicide was dismissed after they renounced their Faith Assembly beliefs. I think this happened around 1992-93. The sick part of all of this is that Dr. Freeman attributed the deaths of 100 of his followers to a lack of faith in God's ability to heal, not his own misguided preaching. I wouldn't go so far as to say Dr. Freeman was an evil person -- just severely misguided in his beliefs. The actual glory barn met its demise in a suspicious fire after media reports of the deaths of his followers. A few years ago the chimney was still standing in the field where the church was located, but it may have been removed since the last time I was there. Dr. Freeman met his demise from either blood poisoning or gangreene after breaking one of his toes. I probably don't need to say this, but he certainly would have lived if he had sought medical treatment. I guess his faith wasn't strong enough either. Most of the Glorybarners left the church after this because Dr. Freeman had said he would live forever, just like Jesus. I've heard that he said he would rise again after three days. He didn't. I also can't believe that there are some out there who still belive Dr. Freeman's teachings. The final effect of Dr. Freeman's teaching was that he drove many young people away from belief in God. Believe me, the Faith Assembly was definitely a detriment to our community. | ||
| Anonymous |
I wrote the above posting. After writing it my curiousity was again piqued. http://www.rickross.com/reference/foc/foc3.html reports that Dr. Freeman died of bronchial pneumonia, not blood poisoning. Still, I bet a little penicillin would have gone a long way. | ||
| david ash |
To All: Two people in my family both met with an early demise because of Dr. Freeman's theology. They died of cancer, which by the time they sought help, the doctors told them there was nothing that could be done. In addition to this, my favorite aunt has also long followed Dr. Freeman's brand of faith. Her teeth have rotted in her head, all the while she has confessed she has no cavities. My aunt is a particularly tragic story. She has locked herself away for more than two decades. No church is good enough and no Christians are worthy her attention. Like Dr. Freeman and from his tone, Micheal Markley, there is no real compassion for others, especially those who go unhealed. Afterall, if they only had the faith, all their problems would disappear. After seeking unsuccessfully for many years to help my aunt. I think I've learned a little about Dr. Freeman and where he and his followers went astay. First, his charasmatic personality led people to worship the man, rather than God. My aunt has many times shook her finger at me and said, "Don't talk ill of Dr. Freeman. You risk devine retribution!" Secondly, they put their faith in faith, rather than faith in God. To them, faith becomes some sort of power in and of itself, a kind of "Trust the force, Luke" Star Wars thing. They are taught it's all a matter of formula, say the right words and have the right thoughts. Any who fails to be healed is trampled in the dust as lacking faith or having unrepentent sin. It is truly ironic these beliefs go on even when their leaders like Dr. Freeman can't make it work and die themselves from ordinary maladies. But then, isn't that what the whole world seeks, health and prosperity? Just turn on the TV to see how much advertising is geared toward making us feel better or get richer. In any event, beliefs such as these lead people away from the one and only truth, Jesus Christ. Emphasis is centered around having enough faith to change reality and obey all the legalistic edicts of the sect. In my aunts case, she can't perform personal hygene (tooth brushing etc), own a smoke detector, seek medical or any other assistance from others, wear glasses instead of squinting over her large print Bible, associate with anyone she deems a lukewarm Christian and the list goes on and on forever. This is not what Christians are to be about or to stress. Any professing believer in Christ Jesus would do well to remember Matthew 25:31-46. I would be very interested in carrying on a discussion with anyone who has an interest. I've studied Dr. Freeman quite a bit and still hope for my aunt's recovery from spiritual pride and legalism. | ||
| Bob Dobarganes |
To David Ashe, Anonymous, and Others: While I have not been directly or indirectly influenced by the teachings of Dr. Freeman, I find it amazing how so many people have been mesmerized by Brother Freeman and his heretical teachings. Maybe it's because I was raised an Episcopalian and Pentecostal fundamentalism is so foreign to me. I am seeking information about Faith Assembly and the Glory Barn for a magazine article I'm writing. Specifically, I'm researching the backgrounds of Hobart Freeman and Charles Meade of End Time Ministries, a spin-off of Faith Assembly, now known as Meade Ministries headquartered in Lake City, Fla. Meade lived in Muncie, Ind. for many years where he worked for the Ball Bros. Manufacturing Co. (approx. 1946-1966) now known as Ball Corp. After he left Ball apparently in the early 1970s (this is in question since Ball won't confirm his employment dates), he seems to have been affiliated with Freeman in some way through a local church in Muncie at which Freeman preached on his traveling circuit. According to another source, Meade appears to have been preaching at the Glory Barn in upstate Indiana along with Freeman. So the story goes, Freeman started preaching against Meade as a "false prophet" and kicked him out. There is very little info available on this. Is there anyone who can confirm this? Meade subsequently moved to Daleville, Ind. where he began preaching out of his garage, making cassette tapes, and developing a loyal following. Then around 1974-75, Meade began traveling back and forth to Sioux Falls, So. Dakota, preaching to young, impressionable high school and college students and giving them tapes to constantly listen to. The nucleus of his new group, loosely known as "The Assembly," consisted of 4 to 5 students from Northwestern Univ. in Evanston, Ill. who had ties to Sioux Falls. Besides groups in Evanston, Muncie, and Sioux Falls, a group was also set-up in Billings, Montana. Then, in 1984-85, Meade started moving all four groups to Lake City, Fla. His wife, at the time, was Marie Buckley Meade, who died of untreated breast cancer shortly after arrival. He remarried three weeks after her death to another woman who was a member of the group from So. Dakota. Now, at age 86, he has built a multi-million dollar church, the largest of its design in the world, by the way, with a congregation of around 1,000 or more. Certainly mind control plays a large part in how these cultic religious groups operate. People from many states were overwhelmingly persueded to move to Florida. Their services apparently invoke speaking in tongues, chanting, singing, and jumping up and down. Cassette tapes of sermons by Freeman and Meade were (and still are) constantly listen to, to the exclusion of anything else. What else? Meade Ministries is, by all accounts, a much more wealthy, controlled, carbon copy of Faith Assembly right here in Florida. Less is actually known about the early beginnings (and teachings) of the Glory Barn/Faith Assembly. These postings certainly help but it's been three months since the last postings. I would be interested in dialogues with all parties on this subject. | ||
| Burt |
Yes I have been there. I grew up in a family whose beliefs were with the faith assembly. Not too sure how much I want to talk about it now. but email if iterested in chatting some. | ||
| Laura Smith (208.6.170.3) |
If anyone still reads this thread, I have a question. I recently looked at a facility in Indiana (noble county) that I was told was home to the "Glory Barn" church, that was closed by the state about 10+ years ago due to many suspicious deaths. Anyhow, an earlier poster said the building burned, but I am wondering if it was rebuilt? Anyhow, I'm interested in learning more about this, if anyone knows! | ||
| tomax7 (68.147.153.246) |
Hello all Having sat under Dr. Freeman, I must say the man had a passion in making sure the Bible was preached in its completness. While all the negative things that happened, and I don't have an answer for it, there is a heck of a lot of good that went on there also. I got "delivered" if you take it or leave doesn't bother me, from a range of emotional baggage and sin. Literally I knew things were leaving me. As for healings, I saw things happen in my life an others that were beyond explaination so healings did take place. Why not for everyone? I don't know. Yes the one thing missing in the preaching was Grace. Grace to let others grow at their own speed. Seems the church grew so fast and things were happening almost weekly at Faith Assembly, the new building, I believe the zeal of the people is partly to blame what happened. Legalism crept in and a false hyper-faith grew in such an environment that deaths occured and sadly could have been prevented by medical attention. Nevertheless God is still faithful and did heal. But as to why not always, I guess we have to learn more about grace and not giving up. Sadly a lot of teens, like a previous poster stated, have fallen or turned their backs on God. This hurts me, but at the same time I guess one has to move on and realize it still is a personal walk with God. Not excusing the either the parents or the teens, but I do know from reading emails sent to me, the teens were neglected and expected to grow up quickly in the faith environment. This was not fair and hindsite would show the adults were guilty of this special ministry, even to toddlers, like a "sunday school". Somewhere has to be the balance in all this. On one side we have in the Old Testiment, they took rebellious teens out of the city and stoned them, on the other side we have Timothy where it says children will become disobediant and rebellious. So where does one draw the line to say the Bible is true and we should follow it? That is a personal choice, and unfortunatly for Faith Assembly and Dr. Freeman we were caught blindsided by legalism and destroyed what could have, well was for a bit, a mighty move of God not seen since the big revivals in Chicago and California and such. Myself, I have balanced my life out with medical attention, like going to the dentist (my heart goes out for David Ash's aunt) and health check ups, and prayer. I generally pray first for symptoms and they go away without side effects, but some linger, some like cavity don't heal. So I go get it fixed. Why don't they get healed? I don't know, but I don't throw out what I know is true - Jesus still heals today. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If He healed and delivered me back in 1980, He can do it today. Do I condemn others for going to seek medical help? No, not at all. But I do feel sad if at the first sign one doesn't seek God, rather than seek the asprin bottle as society is so conditioned today. cheers tom | ||
| tomax7 (68.147.153.246) |
Sorry for the spelling mistakes of my previous post, please see past that, it's 2am here and I didn't feel like proof reading. | ||
| Anonymous (165.138.198.101) |
ok i just want to know how people who beleive in this dont see that God heals through doctors and medicine...isnt it obvious? if he didnt want people to learn how to heal he wouldnt have let them...as a society we make advances in medicine and save lives every day...if that was "wrong" dont you think god would stop it? doctors and medicine save lives...anyone who cant see that is brainwashed by this hobart guy...my cousin died years ago...before i was born...becuase he was diabetic...people shouldnt die from diabetes...he fell for the crap that that guy preached and payed the ultimate price...his wife stood there and "prayed" for him instead of calling for real help...god gives people the wisdom to learn how to heal and nobody in this cult seems to realize that is how god heals...not always through these "miracles"...its my opinion that anyone who stands by and watches someone die from something that could easily be treated should be punished by the law...dont these people see that after their leader died from breaking his toe?? ive broken my toe many times and im still here...i think anyone in this cult needs to re'evaluate what they are doing in their lives...god wants people to be healed...thats why there are doctors.. | ||
| Anonymous (222.151.8.124) |
As a kid growing up in sattelite churches (bodies as I think they were called) I and other kids didnt really have much of a choice but to hear and obey the crap that Hobart and his subordinates taught. Yeah, I was one of those kids who had to go to school and feel different, no parties and all that, religous immunizations. At least we got to go to school, I guess some of the kids ended up home schooled or went to a school that the Faith assembly wackos had created. School was the only contact me and my brother had with "worldly" activities for a long time. Of course there was no sports, dating, of course none of that as those people were non belivers. Some people need something to hold on to, but we kids shouldnt of been punished for it(spare not the rod when your kid is caught listening to that radio) To me, Freeman was nothing but an educated fool. What gives him or anyone else the right to preach the crap he did, because he attended some seminary? Had a vision? I mean come on, how could you sit back and call yourself a man of God and collect these peoples money while their children die as a result of your teaching? Strong faith? my behind! something went wrong in his head somewhere down the road. I had to jump through a lot of hurdles that other people didnt because of this experience, you know feelings of being different. I mean it was a parents decision, true, but I feel he holds responsibilty for it too. Its one thing for an adult to try and reach out for something, but kids had no business in that mess. There was some good to it, but there is good to be found in almost anything. You cant justify it. | ||
| Anonymous (63.241.218.46) |
wow. there is something catharctic about reading these posts. I grew up in a 'body' as well - in Vermont, walked away from it all and have only recently come back to a place where God's grace never ceases, His mercies are new every morning - great is His faithfulness. I wonder how many more of us there are out there. | ||
| Anonymous (148.78.243.51) |
I also grew up under that crap. The idea that the Bible teaches that we have "divine" healing under the atonement, in this life, is ludicrous. It is theological error. Yes, God heals, but through various means. | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.4) |
I attended one of the "Body" churches in 1982-1984. ( I am 52 years old now). At that time I had four children and an alcoholic husband. The people that went to the Body were found to be very legalistic and were not very patient with me in trying to grow into the faith taught there. I felt very guilty for not growing as fast as they thought I should be. At the time, I was barely able to make it from day to day while living in a horrible home situation. Becasue they condemed the woman for wearing pants, I wore pants only at home or when not in church. I also wore glasses because I have an eye disease. Once one of the men from the church saw me wearing pants and my glasses in public and did not take someone from the church to speak with me about it, as the bible says to do. He made a display out of me in one of the meetings. Given my problems at the time, I should never have had to endure the embarrasement of that for it was not out of love or grace, it was out of a very ridgid teaching.I was sincerly trying as hard as I knew how to grow into the faith teaching, but it was not enough nor was it fast enough. Eventually I left. But other relatives remained in another body in another state and it did some damage to our relationships-Hobarts teaching did. My husband went through a hospital program to conquer his alcoholism some 20 years ago, and has a testimony for what God did for him at that time. I praise God for that program even though it was a program that would have surely been deemed a bad thing by the church leaders. We are in a good bible believing church that does practice grace and love and 3 of our 4 children are in church and serving the Lord. God is good and although we have gone through some hard things and the teachings of that church was apart of it all, we have come out of all of it stronger.I know it has hurt many people and some of you have had stronger ties with parents in it etc. But God can make you a stronger person for it if you will let Him. | ||
| Anonymous (67.9.136.219) |
Anyone know how they came to terms with Matthew 9:12 and Mark 2:17 ?... Luke 5:31 or Col 4:14 ? | ||
| marciluke (65.26.196.69) |
I also grew up in the church, having attended both Faith Assembly and a "body" in Lafayette, Indiana under Bruce Kinsey. I would be interested to hear from others that were influenced by this. | ||
| Brother Ruben (68.111.240.191) |
I studied under Dr. Freeman for many years, and must say that I was blessed and inspired by the way he taught the scriptures. Healing is not all Dr. Freeman taught.You people that are proclaiming him a "nut" and a "heritic" simply do not know his teachings. The teachings always put the responsibility on the hearer to be sure that their faith was truely faith and not presumption. Dr. Freeman never told anyone not to go to a doctor, in fact he said if you have a nickel's worth of faith and a dime headach you needed to do something. The truth is found in scripture and not in any man's head. Stop looking to man and look to God. Man will always let you down, God never will. Seek God and trust him. Jesus said the our teacher is the Holy Spirit, He will lead us into all truth. | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.197) |
Ummm. In comment to the above message, then why in the "Body" churches, men who also studied under him, were we taught that "leaning to the arm of the flesh was wrong" and that if you went to the doctor, not only were you in sin, but you also lacked faith? Those of us that went for any length of time, and were taught these things learned well what he taught because the teachers in the Body churches were products of Dr.Freeman's teachings. We learned so well that when we began to get free of the teachings and come out of it, that we were very confused to the point of wondering if we were now in danger of losing our salvation. In my case, I had to sit down with the Bible and decide just what I really did believe as opposed to what I was trying to believe because I was really confused. Doesn't that sound somewhat like a cult? How about brain washing? Did anyone else have that experience? And you are right in that we should look to God because man will let you down. That is exactly what I did and guess what-God used the book of Romans to deliever me of a lot of the teachings I had learned under Freeman's teaching! And Praise God I am not under all that pressure to live up to the stuff that Freeman taught. I love the Lord. I try to be the best christian I can be. But I am not perfect and do not pretend to be and I fall short. That is where God's grace and forgiveness comes in. And that is where Freeman's teaching and a lot of the people under it, falls short. I have forgiven them, but you are right-they let me down and I thank God I am out of that and into what real freedom in Christ is! | ||
| dr.allen wilson (68.123.234.207) |
does anyone have hobart freeman on videotape? any info of the whereabouts of his family members? thanks,dr.allen wilson | ||
| DRALLEN WILSON (68.123.234.207) |
does anyone have hobart freeman on video?what about the location of his family members? thanks,dr.allenwilson elijahwhirlwind@hotmail.com | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.175) |
As I read through these posts, I cannot help but weigh the negative with the postive. Sorry to those of you that have had good experiences in this sect/cult/church (or whatever else you want to call it), but those of us that have the negative ones sure outweigh you. Doesn't that tell you people something? Maybe you should take your blinders off like we did. | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.20) |
Anyone who wants to know about Charles Meade or Meade Ministries can email me.I grew up in that church. Email: cookie2930@aol.com | ||
| angie saft markiewicz (68.210.51.123) |
Wow! I am so sorry that those who claim to be christians can cause so much pain and yet believe that they are doing as Christ would have them to do. I am sorry that as people we can get so caught up in our sin (pride) and in the name of Jesus hurt others. The fact is though we are sinful people and we are not are not Christ nor are we like Him in any way. We can beg God to teach us to take on some of who He is that we can be able to love and serve and to forgive but I don't believe we will be any thing close to what He is being that our sin will often get in our way. I once was in the Columbus Body with my mother and three brothers. I was 10 years or so and tried to believe in healing for a eye disease. I had much faith as a child so I thought. But now I am 32 and have not recieved a total healing. A few years ago I nearly went blind, and for a time had little vision. I asked God that if He had brought some kind of healing I would devote all of my eye power or vision to reading books and the bible to cause me to grow closer to Him. He granted this through surgery. I only read now things that will cause me to grow closer to Him for I do not know how much time He will give me. But in all my past faith did not help, I decided at 22 that I no longer wanted any thing to do with this group of believers. I serched the word and found God to be very different then what I knew of Him before. Now we are in a bible believing church that even the pastor sins against us and lets us come to him and talk to him about it. He is a man who teaches the work of God with great help from God and those who are above him but he does not claim to be a "Man of God". He once said that our church is for sinners and we all will sin against each other. I am the biggest sinner of all and I know therefore I am in a good place to not only learn of my sin but learn of Gods grace. As I learn of the grace of God I then learn how to give it to others and not be shocked of the sins of my fellow brothers and sisters. I also know I need a Savior every moment of my life...and i know that in me there is nothing good unless God Himself puts it there. My heart is healing but it is because God is doing it on His time. My faith is bigger because He is doing a great work in me. some times I wonder if faith comes after seeing God do things in my life that is amazing to me. I can not heal my own heart but God can. I hope and pray that those who suffered in the body type churches will find a savior full of love and grace and that they will realize that yes people such as Freeman may have causeed confussion and suffering, he still is a man, a sinner as we all are and it would be just like satan to use such fire to hurt us and pin us against each other. Please ask God to help you for give those who have hurt you so that you can go on and help others heal as well. Don't let satan enjoy turning christain against christain. I believe Freeman was saved and I believed he went to heaven but I believe to that he was in much sin as we all are and that when he went to stand before God, God showed him his own heart and then God I am sure showed His heart to Freeman. I will bet Freeman had regrets...Take care of regrets here on earth that God will use your siffering to help others. | ||
| anita (208.20.45.71) |
Hello; I too had my formative years in faith assembly. I began attending as a teen in a s.w. michigan body and soon was also attending fri,sat, sun, weds services at the glory barn. I attended another group in grand rapids michigan while living there. I left after about 10 years. I couldn't reconcile the ever evolving legalism and staying away from unbelievers as the reason so many were dying. I met and married a man from faith assembly who stopped going and therefore was in sin. If i were to remain married yet couldn't fellowship with unbelievers and have my prayers answered where did this leave me? Was God so lame that talking to the neighbors was gonna give the devil permission to attack my faith? I miss the innocence of the early 70's in faith assembly where people were worshiping the Lord and wanting to learn without all the legalism that followed. Faith assembly teachings have ruined alot of people's lives and faith. 10 or more years after i left faith assembly I sat with my mother as she died of an easily treatable disease (an ulcer)while still holding to the teachings begun by Hobart Freeman. After screwing up the courage to leave the body I went through a period of "If i'm gonna burn in hell anyway I might as well have fun" and a period of being terrified that god was going to take one of my children as a penalty for leaving the faith. I think it is shameful that something started with such sincerity went so sincerely wrong. To those of you who grew up as young children of faith assembly I am so sorry to have participated in this mindset that was so so hard on the children. I have really struggled with the echos of their teaching in trying to find a place in christian society. I remember a day when I was so depressed and sat in a corner and said listen God this is how it is: I can't even read the bible without this crap overwhelming me, I am gonna stop hurting others, try to stop hurting myself and that is going to have to be it for a while until I can get this stuff out of my head. My kids who were very young when I left did suffer the stigmitization but I left at the time my oldest was just about to start school. But you can't make a kid like others (no santa claus, no easter bunny) when they have heard it for years. I see my eldest son so much more tender toward his children's fantasies than I had ever been and it shames me. I still have former in laws in faith assembly. They still use every chance they get to attack me and my children for having left. I would tell my kids-I don't care how they act you treat them as you would any other aunt and uncle and send a graduation announcement. Their reply? A letter stating we received your graduation announcement. So what? What good will it do you if you are going to burn in hell. My neice sent my daughter in law on the eve of a life and death surgery a e mail card at the hospital saying that if she didn't get right with god she was going to die and burn in hell. My children were told that their mother was going to burn in hell because she was an adulterous whore. (I was divorced and remarried) and the parents' response when called on the carpet (our kids don't say whore to anyone) was: the truth is sometimes hard to hear. Now what kind of conversation is that for a group of kids to be hearing so that they repeat it? There are people who have successfully left faith assembly without alot of outward appearance of trauma to their faith. I think of Ray Boltz for one but the numbers seem to fall to the other extreme. We are the walking wounded. Spiritually abused by those we considered friends and teachers. Not allowed the common courtesy of being able to grieve as we saw 100s of people we knew and loved die as a result of pride in faith. I am at least glad that I had so little confidence or arrogance to realize that my heart was not always pure and therefore believe that I had better take my kids to the dr if they were really sick and none of them died before I left faith assembly. It was not something I told people in the body for shame sake but at least my kids are still here. To the poster that said the nickle faith, dime illness quote I am glad none of your loved ones died. My mom was a member of faith assembly for 25 years. If you were at all a member and I posted her picture you would know her and know of her personal integrity, her faithfullness to the Lord, her true belief in the whole teachings of faith assembly teachings and you should be ASHAMED of slandering those who died! That is the real insult to me that if someone died the cop out was they lacked faith, they were in some unknown untold sin etc. I will go to my grave saying to you open your eyes learn something besides what tickles your ears. God is not some celestial santa claus waiting to give you what you demand while you sit and do nothing to help yourself. When my friend Krista died they went into her home and removed every trace of her belonging to the group, notes, tapes, books etc. to keep the bodies name out of the media. Shame on those people! When my friend Alice and her unborn baby died I stood at the grave during the ceremony and choked back tears and said she was with the Lord now. Well she is, but it was a waste pure and simple. | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.186) |
Anita: I am so sorry for what you have went through in that church. As I stated in my post, I was in one of the body churches. I was not raised in the church, but attended after my sister had been going there for some time. She "believed" me in. I did try hard to learn the teachings and go with them. However, because my husband was an alcoholic at the time, the good news was, that because he did not go there, he did help me keep one foot sort of out of the church, if you will. In other words, I never fully embrased the teachings, even though I wanted to. When it came to doctors, I did try "believing" for my kids healing as well as myself. If it came right down to it though, I took them to the doctor rather then let them continue being sick. I lied a lot during that time, not only to my family who by then attended a body in another church, but to the body I was going to. I either lied or let them believe that I was not going to doctor's etc. I had to ask God's forgiveness for that later. I realized at some point that I was more concerned about what they thought about me rather then what God thought about me. Again as I stated, the book of Romans was what really set me free. I can only imagine how confused and brain washed some are that were born or raised into the church were/are. I was not and yet I had come out of it very much so and it took a long time to get free of it even when I realized that my salvation did not depend on that church. It has in some ways made me a better person, a stronger one because no longer do I let other people dictate how I believe. I weigh all my beliefs by the bible and not by what man says. Unfortunalty because of this, it caused real divsison between my sister and myself. No, she is no longer a part of a body, but is in some other teaching that appears to be just as dangerous. But once I took a stand for myself, things have never been the same between us. God help us for not just loving each other as Christ loves His church. But I am still expected to believe the way she does or else I am in the wrong. I cannot, nor will I ever compromise again. Again, I sorry you went through what you did. Let this experince though work for your good as God promises in Romans 8:28. God bless in your endevors to know the truth. | ||
| michael markley (204.110.227.176) |
Jesus died that we as His people through faith can obtain salvation. Jesus sent His chosen people the comforter and gave His elect exceeding great precious promises that we can through faith escape the corruption of this present evil world. I thank Jesus that He is Lord of all and His name is above all names, and that Jesus has all power in both heaven and earth. I admonish those of you who have been blessed with the truth to above all stand with a shield of faith ,don’t be deceived by the enemy that has these deceitful workers turning the truth into a lie. Jesus loves you all and is the answer to all your needs ,He is the great physician and the best assurance and the most knowledgeable teacher and the strongest protector and He has chosen His people because they are not of this world. I admonish you all ,don’t place your faith in the carnal minded world that’s a enmity to God these institutions will soon fail and men’s hearts will fail ,remember Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. michael | ||
| Anonymous (65.6.98.106) |
To All, In the mid to late 70's I would occasionally listen to Hobart E Freeman's taped messages from the Glory Barn. I lived in Louisiana. The messages preached and taught were most inspiring. He was no nut nor cult leader. He challenged people. I never felt condemned from listening to his tapes for my lack of faith. I believe that he was inspiring. I think that possibly the problem arose not from Dr. Freeman but from the congregation. In every church there are the same type of "church" people who believe that they have it all and condemn others who aren't as successful as they are in varous areas of their lives. I believe that Dr. Freeman had a level of faith that most of us do not have. I believe he lived in a spiritual relm that most of us do not know how to enter. From what I have read, I believe that many tragically wanted to please Dr. Freeman in their attempt to stay away from the doctor. I believe that many made a god of faith and forgot the tender mercies and love of our Father. They were trying to please man and not God. I personally believe that many today have made gods of medicine and doctors. I beleive that many tragedies happen as a result of the physician. I don't mean that it is a sin to see a doctor or that you shouldn't go for a consultation or have surgery if that is your choice. I personally believe that we need to return to herbal medicine! Since I was not a part of the Glory Barn, I can not comment on the daily activities of the church. I believe that Jesus does heal miraculously. I believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are available to all of us today. My sister-in-law's parents are missionaries to Mexico. They have had many unexplained miracles happen in their daily living. Check out David Hogan. He is also a missionary in Mexico. He has a ministry of miracles. Read his testimony. Miracles do exist. To all who have been hurt by the Glory Barn: Forgive and go on. It seems that the hurt is deep. But don't miss out on eternity with God just because you are angry. | ||
| michael markley (204.110.228.183) |
Rev. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Dr Freeman’s teaching was inspired and was the truth . There are a chosen few that today would rather follow Jesus than worship the enemy “the god of this world” The truth they follow is not in the wisdom of men ,but rather “in the scripture” . The faithful will “stand on the word.” the true and faithful will always followed Jesus . There were those that blindly followed Dr. Freeman and they never established faith in Jesus ,just as the parable of the sower ,some fell by the way side. Jesus has sent His people a comforter that will guide them into all truth, and has gave His elect promises so those who believe in them can escape the corruption of this world. 2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. The world is deceived and the carnal minded institutions is not where the overcomer exercises faith. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. The Lords people Love Jesus and place all their faith in Him and believe His promises that He has gave us out of His great Love for the Church. To the special people Jesus becomes their ” teacher ,protector ,healer. Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Just shall live by faith ,Hebrews 10:38 Fight the good fight of faith,1 tim 6:12 Saved by faith, luke 7:50 justified by faith, Rom 3:28, Stand by faith ,2 cor 1:24 Prayer faith will heal save the sick ,james 5:14,15 More than conquerors ,rom 8:37 He that is in me is greater than he that is in the world ,1 john 4:4 Resist the devil and he will flee us ,james 4:7 Above all take a shield of faith, eph 6;16 Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Mark 11:24 (KJV) Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. All things were created By Jesus and He has all power in heaven and on earth ,I admonish you all to give your heart to the Lord Michael michaelmarkley@yahoo.com | ||
| Anonymous (68.104.146.43) |
http://frontpage.kconline.com/faithassembly/ | ||
| Anonymous (68.104.146.43) |
Sermons Live via Paltalk from "Faith Assembly!" http://frontpage.kconline.com/faithassembly/sermonsonpaltalk.htm | ||
| Anonymous (68.104.146.43) |
Digitizing Update Recorded Teachings by Hobart E. Freeman, ThD For quick reference, a simple list of digitized messages by Hobart E. Freeman. As more messages are digitized, we will add them to this list and mark them with an asterisk in the listing on the Faith Ministries & Publications website. http://frontpage.kconline.com/faithassembly/DigitizedMessages.htm | ||
| Anonymous (66.119.33.155) |
I sat under Hobart Freeman during the late 70's and early 80's and can say that to this day, some 20 years later, I'm still traumatized and suffering the effects of it. I remember the day, I clearly heard it said "it was better to die than to trust in the arm of the flesh"... What probably started out as something good became legalistic and judgemental. The pressure not to seek medical care was traumatizing. The message above about the baby that died from meningitis and the parents being arrested and charged is probably my cousin's 10 month old daughter that passed away from meningitis. You know, I heard that they believed that she really wasn't dead. God would raise her up. My sister's baby died in childbirth and my sister nearly did. That was the hardest thing she had ever been through and our hearts broke for her. My 4th child was born shortly after I walked away from that ministry and he was born club-footed. It was "implied" that he was born that way because I walked away from the message. I'll never forget the pain I felt from that insinuation. Yes, there was some awesome and deep teaching that came out of Faith Assembly, but, the horror far outweighs the good! I have suffered damages and continue to suffer as a result of that ministry. Did anyone ever notice that all the little children were like identical little robots???? They looked the same, talked the same, dressed the same, etc. I have never been able to become involved in any church since. I would rather die than to go back to that teaching. Somebody please tell me how to get it out of me totally and completely! It feels strangely like I've been brain-washed! | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.205) |
Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV) Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.57) |
Annoy.66.119.33.155 I feel for you as I know how you must be suffering from all you went through. As I have said in some of my posts, I came out of that teaching, very confused to the point of almost being disoreinted for a time. I wasn't sure if I was even saved. I got free from it after a time because I read through the whole book of Romans and settled in my own heart what I believed instead of what I had been taught and tried to take as truth. I was out of church for awhile, but then got involved in a good bible teaching church which was very much UNLIKE that one. I would encourage you to first read through Romans and decide what you believe and not just take what man's teaching are, but weigh them against the truth of the Word. Then find a good church. There are many out there. We are admonsihed to "not forsake the assembling of the body" and we as Christians need each others support. But we need it in a good bible teaching church. As I stated in my post to Anita above, please let your experience work to your good as in Romans 8:28 and also God bless you in your endevors to find the truth, as well. | ||
| Anonymous (68.104.146.43) |
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." Gal 3:11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him." Mark 11:22 So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith in God. James 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-- and tremble! James 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Who will stand before The Lord on The Judgement Day and say, "It was all Dr. Hobart E. Freeman's fault?" | ||
| Tom McLaughlin (68.147.218.223) |
I have posted on my site my thoughts and feelings as to what happens, and it is sad to hear how many young people's lives got screwed up, but at the same time how many people got to hear a 'pure' word before things became legalistic. http://www.tomax7.com/thoughts/faith_assembly.htm From reading the posts here and the emails sent to me, there is a lot of hurting and confused people. God is not the author of confusion, but that is not to say Faith Assembly or Dr. Freeman were authors of confusion either. We as a Body went astray, everyone to their own way Isaiah 53. To the person just posting scriptures here, go look in the mirror and get a life. That is exactly the reason why FA fell apart, all talk but no mercy. Can quote scripture, but miss the most important one - Love. Love covers a multitude of sins, so according to the Bible quoter here, if he/she knows more than us, then don't just spout scripture, but show compassion first. Grace was something missing from the pure Word taught, but I belive it is coming back into our lives. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, there has to be a reason why we were taught the Pure Word. Maybe in the coming days with the Anti-Christ and false signs what we learned way back in the 70-80's will keep us. For the new believers and those born after will have the opportunity to show what they believe in their own way, like we had to when things fell apart at Faith Assembly. Where you following a man or a crowd, or were you following Jesus? Keep your eyes on Jesus, that is the only thing that will keep you steady in the days ahead. cheers tom www.tomax7.com | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.102) |
And you are so right, Tom. Grace was missing from the teachings that came out of Faith Assembly. Realizing that Dr.Freeman and the other teachers are only as human as the rest of us, helps a great deal in getting past the confusion that came out of the teachings. I was one that was following the man.I was more concerned about what they thought of me then what God thought of me. And believe me when I realized that, I ran into problems with my family that still attended there and we don't have much of a relationship to this day although that has been many years ago. It is sad. But it shows that as you say, we need to keep our eyes on Jesus, not on those men. At the same time, those endoctronated into it by family ties etc. it is not an easy road to hoe. And one can become wrapped up into much bitterness and not want anything to do with God. That is one reason why there are so many cults. I do not attempt to know what goes on in Faith Assembly or it's bodies now. I can't really say I want to. It's damage has been done, and there are many still suffering and wounded from it. I am just glad that I am free and that God helped me get through that time of confusion. I feel for those people that are still suffering. The bottom line is love. People can speak in tounges, have the gift of prophesey, and all the rest but if they do not have love then it is all as clanging brass and tingling cymbals. And that is where the Faith teaching lost out and hurt so many of it's people. A christian said once that christians are the sometimes the ones that don't bury their own dead. And it is true and was true in Faith Assembly in more ways then one. Keeping your eyes on Jesus is one thing, but when a church hurts people as Faith Assembly did, and then turns their backs on them etc.it can give one a distored view of what the love Christ is. God help us not be that kind of people. God bless | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.205) |
the person who posted these scripture is right. its sad when a man posts scripture , and is told to "get a Life" the word is the bread of life. ,maybe this person who is offened by the word of God should examine himself. even look in the mirror and ask Jesus to forgive him.its amazing you came to faith assembly a couple times around twenty years ago and claim to know everything. in realty and truth your a abomination.even your adult webstites that you have created are a abomintation. repent ,Jesus loves you and will forgive a person who repents. you cannot deceived the elect. | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.205) |
Love is believing the word and standing on it. Love is Jesus and His promises.Dr Freeman taught Love and the truth, these men that are condeming Dr Freeman are wolves in sheeps clothing. Dr Freeman always said trust in Jesus and never place your faith in man.Dr Freeman always said not to look at Him but keep your eyes on Jesus.these men that are condemming Dr. Hobart Freeman are workers of iniquity. | ||
| Jake (208.10.193.218) |
To 66.174....Sunday June 27th Kick me once, shame on you. Kick me twice, shame on me. God expects us to use the brain He gave us. I do not sit in judgement on things that go on at Faith Assembly today, or any of it's "bodies". I do know what I experienced in the past.God in in infinete mercy forgave me and did convict me of following man above Him. It wasn't so much sometimes what Freeman presented as how he presented it. And hence comes in much of the legalism and the fact that it made those of us that were 'weak in the faith' not good enough or not up to par in the teachings. You can speak all you want to of forgiveness and the love of Jesus. And yes, that is so important, but a church or teacher (or Pastor) has to back in up in deed, not just word. I do not pretend to know whether that is being done today in the church. I hope it is for all's sake that attends there. But at the same time, I am not stupid enough to go back and let it happen again. If you were not hurt by all that went on there, I would ask you if you were even a part of it 20-25 years ago? And if you weren't hurt, fine for you to judge those that were. Too many people were and it hasn't been just a small group but many, many people. Seems the wolves have devoured some and tried to devour many others. Ummmm. I would add that I hope you weren't hurt for any hurt that came out of that church that was unbiblical as in the legalism etc. is a shame. It is sad. God bless | ||
| michael (66.174.6.207) |
Teaching people to believe in Jesus and stand on His promises is not legalism ,and teaching people that Jesus is all power in heaven and earth and will honor the promises He makes is not legalism either, some people cannot face truth without fainting because they have never really came to the cross. Double mindedness produces fear and sin causes instability some even make the mistake of calling reaping and sowing a trial of their faith. Some people foolishly make faith stands while living in unrepentant sin they cannot receive any promise yet will bring persecution upon those who are walking in the light. There are only a few that will take up their cross and die to self. Overcoming is not sinning. "the act of kenosis" is the first step in maturing into the fullness of the stature of Christ. Jesus said many will fall by the way side, when they do they revile the faithful and persecute those who walk in righteousness. Walking holy and perfect is the commandment of our Lord not speaking words of unbelief towards those who "stand on the word" Dr Freeman had the gift of strength and faith to stand up against the Gainsayers, they kicked at him and spoke evil of the truth revealed in the scripture .The critics of Christ are alive and well and they will be Judged by the words they speak. “There is a small remnant of faithful “soon the world will be Judged and the remnant will overcome by the power of the blood of the Lamb and the testimony of their words not loving their lives even unto death and just as the days of Noah they will be taken away. michaelmarkley@yahoo.com Hebrews 10:38 (KJV) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. | ||
| Anonymous (208.10.193.96) |
Not allowing people to grow at their own pace, expecting people to obey all the manmade rules a leader has set up without condemnation and not doing so with a spirit of love and grace, is legalizm in it's worst form, You can give all the scripture you want to back up what you are saying, but get back to I Corthians 13. Without love you have nothing. You are sounding brass and clanging cymbols.. And sorry to have to say this, but that is what embodied much of the teachings that came from Faith Assembly. | ||
| FreeinJesus (166.144.39.104) |
faith assembly back then under Dr .Freeman’s guidance “had a direction “,and that’s more than can be said of what’s happening now. Dr. Freeman never allowed gross sinful immorality by anyone connected to His leadership (co administration). Just because people listen to a “dead mans tapes “dose not mean they are alive in the Holy Spirit “the Holy Spirit produces Fruits of righteousness” ,not the abomination acts of profanity and debase immorality or condones leadership of such . The sad truth is faith assembly went back to “the land of Goshen” and has “degraded the Light of Jesus into works of darkness”….. Dr. Freeman can no longer defend the truth He taught and has been hijacked. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead and sent the Holy Spirit to a live church. Matthew 23:27 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Matthew 8:22 (KJV) But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit and He is alive and His elect will follow Him and not have fellowship with darkness……… Ephes. 5:11 (KJV) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. | ||
| Dr. David Coleman (205.188.117.20) |
greetings in Jesus , The most wonderful thing is about to happen. saints who God placed together by a large multitude and had different lifestyles some even unpleasaent, such as the carnal christians at Corinthians, were being tested in their faith. They were to bring forth righteousness at certain opportunities and missed the mark. the good news is they can be restored to faith and trust God once again because God at this time is preparing to lead them back together in his providential and predestinated plan. He is sovereign and cannot fail. By seeking his face God will lead to this prepared place of restoration love Dr. Dave. amen. | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.207) |
Join paltalks "deeper life in discipleship" room endorsed by "faith asembly" and playing teaching tapes by Dr. Hobart Freeman Ephes. 5:11 (KJV) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Luke 17:3 (KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 1 Tim. 5:20 (KJV) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. (Message edited by admin on November 13, 2004) | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.207) |
contact faith assembly and tapes by Dr.Hobart Freeman,also paltalk rooms and times http://frontpage.kconline.com/faithassembly/ PalTalk room name: Deeper Life and Discipleship Mark S. Scaliotti Hobart E. Freeman, Th.D., founding pastor of Faith Assembly, recorded messages Monday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern (Indiana) time, "Growth to Full Stature" Tuesday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern (Indiana) time, "Biblical Theology" Thursday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern (Indiana) time, "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit" Saturday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern (Indiana) time, "Hebrews" PalTalk room name: Faith that Works Hobart E. Freeman, Th.D., founding pastor of Faith Assembly, recorded messages Sunday, 8:30 a.m. Eastern (Indiana) time, tapes from Brother Freeman's "Faith" series. Joe Brenneman, present pastor of Faith Assembly, recorded messages Friday, 7:30 p.m. Eastern (Indiana) time, "I Peter" series | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.207) |
John 1:1-5 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. | ||
| Anonymous (66.174.6.207) |
faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen | ||
| Anonymous (220.108.116.251) |
Im glad to see all these post and people sharing their feelings. For awhile, I thought maybe I was the only one that had feelings of being tramuatized,ect. I remeber going to a church where we would listen to Hobarts tapes because they didnt have a pastor. The whole thing was a mess. Some people feel they need to reach out for something, people like my parents, when they are faced with what appears to be a hopeless situation. Hobart was there to provide that hope (i.e faith healing) To me, it was a cult, and there is no defending it. We live in a democratic country but Hobart denied us kids growing up in that mess a normal American lifestyle. Call it worldly if you want, but didnt he and his subordinates get to grow up in a normal American home? I got the crap beat out of me for just wanting to wear a wordly T shirt. Others didnt get off that easy, they died. Adults deserve punishment, but kids? come on. This is where I draw the line. Hobart could of seen this. He didnt care. | ||
| Anonymous (60.34.154.170) |
I have to say, however, that it did give my Mom hope in a bad time, and she still holds on to it, but it just isnt right, what we all had to go through. | ||
| Anonymous (218.47.92.71) |
I ran away from it all as a teen. I will never defend it. Ive been running from it for a very long time. There are some here who seem to be defending it, quoting your scripture, honoring Freeman, ect. thats your call, your choice, I wont judge you. I guess the experience produced two different kinds of people, or there were people who joined for their own reasons, and then there were people like me who didnt have a choice. fanntail@hotmail.com | ||
| Anonymous (166.102.251.160) |
Boy, does this ever stir up memories! I must be the golden oldie here as I sat under Dr. Freeman's teachings in the late '60s as a budding teen fresh out of a Presbyterian church. He was teaching on demonology let alone I had never even heard the gospel preached! Shortly thereafter my mother was diagnosed with cancer (my father had died of cancer 5 years previous) and she's torn about going to the hospital and seeking medical help. She did go and died but we too were told that she would be raised from the dead so 3 church members went up to the casket after the service and commanded life to come back into her body but that did not happen. My two brothers and I actually thought that she would miraculously walk through the door even months later. Many more tragic stories I could relate . . . | ||
| lawrence Estrey (212.85.12.187) |
He (Hobart Freeman)sounds like an absolute nutcase and I think the whole WOF and much of the charismatic stuff is a total shambles. Would never go back to it and am interested now primarily in everyday living.......... | ||
| Anonymous (66.31.28.164) |
I would advise that you pay no attention to Michael Malarky's comments about me. He is a liar. | ||
| michael markley (63.184.232.228) |
who ever you are who called me a liar,, Jesus loves you and so do I.And I forgive you. michael markley. | ||
| michael markley (63.184.232.228) |
also remember the Bible teaches that the true Christians are known by their fruits,and are not people who manifest darkness and any of you that have been in unrepentant sin and now see the error of this, please contact me and we will regain fellowship.I am especially speaking to the fivefold ministry and coadministration.My door is always open. michael markley. | ||
| BuzzC (68.202.119.50) |
BuzzC's Spot Educational An E-Mail to a member of The EndTimer Cult, dtd 26 Oct 2004 Joel-- Well you were wrong, Mr. Joel Becker. As was the rest of the cultish, crooked outfit you work for. Lonnie from Harry's Heating & Air got my furnace up and runnin' today. All that was needed was a simple relay switch. Did ya get that? As in NO $500.00 electronic board, per what crackhead employee Randy Keene had told me was needed. As in NO $327 inducer motor that you yourself had told me was needed. As in NO $425 condenser motor. $165 IS the nationwide average for a condenser fan motor. That's what Harry's charged me for one. I paid them a total of $234.56 for a brand new condenser motor and the relay switch, and the LABOR was INCLUDED! Now that's an actual honest to goodness God fearing company if you ask me. A giant ETHICS check is due for C(r)ook's Heating & Air BIG TIME like... BuzzC ~ Columbia City P.S. Possibly a GIANT ethics check is needed for the entire cult who claim to be honest business people. S & S Lawn Mowers ripped me off the exact same way about ten years ago, and got away with it because I never pressed charges. You live, hopefully you learn. Please DO NO business at any EndTimer owned business in town. Sadly they now OWN over half the businesses here. Just who have they robbed up there in South Dakota, or Muncie, Indiana etc., to have so much "green?" BuzzC ~ Lake City, Florida USA The Endtimer's Cult http://www.rickross.com/groups/endtimes.html BuzzC's Letter to the Editor http://www.rickross.com/reference/endtimes/endtimes25.html http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/588.html?1097727998 BuzzC's Spot http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-buzzcareysinfo | ||
| Anonymous (66.31.28.164) |
Michael, You are a liar. The door is only open to your ways and not God's. Anyone who disagrees with you, you condemn and you sow discord amongst brethren and you try to win disciples to yourself. You are a bold face liar and the unrepentant one. | ||
| Anonymous (66.31.28.164) |
Michael, I also heard that you stalked a girl once? Is this your idea of following Freeman (or Jesus) as you say? LOL | ||
| countmyhair (countmyhair) New member Username: countmyhair Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.54.2.196 |
Laura Smith: It was the glory barn that burned down. The facility you saw was where the glorybarners met after the glory barn burned down. It's a pretty creepy looking place. | ||
| countmyhair (countmyhair) New member Username: countmyhair Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.34.191.223 |
I am using my daughter's username since mine has not been approved yet. I am glad she found this site and sent me the link. I have found that talking about the good, bad and the ugly has really been a healing process. I hurt with those of you who lost loved ones. We really meant well - we wanted to obey Jesus. He does heal, but how do you explain those that died - do we always have to understand or blame someone's lack of faith? I appreciate the comments that I have read about love, mercy and letting people grow. We need to let God be their God and stop thinking that we need to make them into "God's image". That prideful, legalistic attitude that came down from the pulpit and was perpetuated by the peer pressure of the church is what caused so much harm. We just need to let God grow us up as He sees fit and stop trying to force others into the mold of do's and don'ts that became too much of Faith Assembly. I find it interesting that so many entries are Anonymous. What are you afraid of? I am not afraid to state who I am, and I think I know who some of the anonymous posts are from. I love you in the Lord, and encourage you to follow Him. Just don't be judgemental of others who don't do everything exactly as you do. God is a God of variety and while his word is true He does deal with all of us at the point where we are. He is not going to have us become robots, or clones. The whole reason God made man with a free will was to give us the opportunity to chose to love Him because we want to. God doesn't want robots or he wouldn't have allowed sin in His earth and universe in the first place. Life is a test and a trust. We love God because He first loved us, and not out of fear of retribution. We all already deserve death because of sin, but judgemental attitudes is not what Jesus manifested in His ministry here on the earth. Let's not be afraid to let people talk about their experiences, feelings and hurts that did happen. They can recieve healing and hope by doing this. They don't need anonymous people posting scripture in a judgemental way. God wants his people to worship Him in spirit and in TRUTH. We can be honest with God about what hurt us in our experiences with Faith Assembly - and then we can come to a place of peace about what was good and what was hurtful. If you find yourself threatened by an examination of things that were said from the pulpit that caused fear in people's hearts, or were condemning and judgemental - you need to look at your own heart. What are you afraid of? Only God is our judge - we will answer to HIM alone on judgement day. If we honestly seek Him with a sincere heart He recieves us and we have peace with HIM, and ourselves. That is why I am not afraid to post my name. I am glad this site is here and hope others will have a chance to post and talk about what they experienced. I hope they will recieve God's love and encouragement from others as they grow in their understanding. Patty Smith | ||
| michael_markley (michael_markley) New member Username: michael_markley Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.179.33.120 |
to anonymous and all others that read this ,I stand in love with you all,,, even (anonymous in your attack against me),,this accusation is totally false in not true. Yet I forgive you and Love you with the Love of Jesus who died and gave so much for us all. It is written ,To us a Child is born, a Son is given, the government shall be on His shoulders ,His name shall be the Wonderful Counselor ,the Mighty God the everlasting Father.. this is MY Jesus in whom I Love and trust, I only follow Jesus ,never a any man, only Jesus can save us with His Holy Blood I will be glad to speak to anyone in person on the phone and you can contact me through my email michaelmarkley@yahoo.com {also I don’t follow Dr Freeman in any way ,I do believe He taught a great deal of biblical truth ,yet faith assembly fell into a bondage of fear and resulted in division and even sin, and I don’t believe it has left. The answer is Jesus and His Love ,Jesus said repent and turn from sin,”Go and sin no more”this can be accomplished by eating the bread of life and drinking the living waters, walking in the spirit, Jesus sent us this wonderful comforter ,to guide us and keep us from evil. Paul said we preach not with enticing words of mens wisdom but with spirit and power, this Holy Spirit brings life, even everlasting life. but carnally minded Christians are dry and wordy and are an enmity to God. Jesus said the greatest commandment is Love. Michael. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.155.121.59 |
Mr. Mark, Do these teachings discourage medical treatment for illnesses? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 133 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.201.102.26 |
"He never said that you could not go to a doctor. He just warned about the dangers of doing so...along with warning about the side effects of medicine." If that teaching caused someone with a life threatening illness, like cancer, to not receive medical treatment,then he is in part responsible for their death. We are all responsible for how we influence others. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
My life was saved by a doctor. You say nothing good about doctors. And yet doctors all over the world are saving lives daily. The cases of malpractice are infintesimal compared to the millions of cases of true healings (by doctors with the HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM) with modern medicine. What you say is dangerous. To promote a total mistrust doctors is a public disservice. If Bro. Hobart was so smart and right, how come he's dead? Healing can be done with doctors and prayers. One's not much good without the other. Don't trust man, I agree with. I don't trust what Hobart said. But you can trust the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit heals through our prayers AND through doctors. If you believe that the Holy Spirit spoke through Hobart, then why is it not possible for the Holy Spirit to work through millions of doctors healing the sick or injured? Yeah, alot of medicines' side effects are pretty terrible but, in many cases for right now they are the best alternative to death. Freeman's teachings are greatly flawed because they deny the existence of good Christian doctors who are used by the Holy Spirit for healing. If one person died because they listened to Freeman instead of going to a doctor and getting proper medical treatment, then someone's got blood on their hands. And it's not the doctor. I believe in healing by faith but many times a good doctor and medical treatment are needed also. I've never heard of a Faith Healer putting a patient's severed limb back on praying it healed. Doctors do it everyday with great success. Heart transplants. etc. Millions are being saved from death everyday. Contemporary medicine has reached the high level that it is because of the God of all knowledge revealing what man knows to scientists, researchers and doctors. There has to be a balance to methods of healing. Healing without a trained medical professional supervising is an imbalance that can have tragic consequences. Stop endangering people's lives. Tell the whole truth about healing. Not just a partial truth. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.164.90.228 |
God KNOWS when we will die. That does not mean that is when God WANTS us to die. God gives us 120 years to live. If we do not live to that age, that is because we did not take care of ourselves, using God's wisdom by listening to the Holy spirit to guide us. God did not call Hobart home. Hobart died because like all men he did not use God's wisdom in taking care of himself. Don't blame God for anyone's death. satan wants us all to die now, not God. God wants us all to live long and full lives. He gives medical professionals the knowledge and wisdom to help God achieve this plan. I do not trust in man. You show that you do by believing this false doctrine of Hobart's. You trust that he was speaking for God. He was not. My dad used to think the same way. All doctors were crooks and inept. He listened to misinformed people like you. Until he had a stroke and heart attack. It was a great awakening for him. He was paralyzed. Through the wisdom that God has shared with doctors and through the Holy Spirit he has regained all that was lost and is healthy now. He is on just enough medication to keep him alive. He has a full life again. Praise God! If you say that my dad shouldn't have gone to the hospital and should have died, then I will kick your ass! By giving credit to people in the medical field, you ARE giving credit to God. Any wisdom they have comes from God. All glory is God's. So if a child is near death after being hit by a car, you would not take him to a hospital to keep him alive? You would just take him to a faith healer? If that is what you would do, and that child dies then I would personally be satisfied to see you go to prison. How you want to throw away your life is your business. God will judge you accordingly. But when you encourage others to be reckless also, I will fight you. You are dangerous. You are teaching a false doctrine. satan smiles. satan wins. satan wants to destroy us. You are helping him do that. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 144 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
God is the healer. Not man. Any good, man does, comes from God. God is not a liar. But you are. You have no scripture that says that for every person that dies, it was God's will. You are reproached by me for one reason, your foolishness. You can come to me when a loved one dies at the hands of a phony faith healer. Go to God and ask Him why. He will tell you that you did not trust Him only. You trusted a man instead. You didn't believe that God gives wisdom to all men, of all occupations. Not just some phony faith healer you've put on a pedestal. If you have a headache do you take aspirin? That was discovered and developed by a medical scientist. Doctors are like lawyers or any other professional. They work for you. They advise you. You tell them what to do. Many states have a three strikes law. If a bad doctor is charged with malpractice three times they can not practice medicine again. And they can be sued for every penny they've got. So, bad doctors can be kept in check. Can you do the same with your mouth? Maybe we need laws against phony, blasphemous faith healers. All three of my children were born C-section by a doctor. I guess your neanderthal thinking would say they should have died instead of lived. Was your birth delivery performed by a doctor or a faith healer? Or did someone just flip over a rock? God is the ultimate healer. But he uses man to assist in the healing. Maybe one day you will open eyes to that truth. Until then you are just going to continue to be dangerous to those you spread your lies to. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 145 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Well this fool, as you insinuate me to be, and my loved ones will probably live longer doing God's will than you and yours. We will trust in God with prayer and not deny medical treatment if we need it. Answer me this, where in the Bible, chapter and verse, does it say NOT to trust doctors? If the good samaritan didn't stop and give that man in the ditch comfort and medical treatment he would have died. God works through men for healing. Physically and spiritually. Please give me scriptural proof that God hates physicians. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.134.119.235 |
It wasn't cancer. I was hit by a car when I was 8 years old. I was dying. A Chinese doctor at a Catholic hospital performed the surgery necessary to save my life. The nuns and my family prayed for me. And I recovered miraculously. Without both the medical attention and the prayers I would not have lived. There is no way I would have recovered without surgery. I had a collapsed lung, ruptured spleen and intestines. I am not catholic but I appreciate anyone who prays for me in the name of the Lord. I now have three sons and a wonderful life. God is good! I just wish you would have a better understanding about how prevalent the Holy Spirit is in the medical profession. Get out of that narrow minded box you're in. You seem to try to follow the letter of the law but fail to understand the spirit of the law. By the way, keep in mind that at the time when the Bible was written, medical knowledge was almost non existent. There was no choice but to be healed by faith and prayers. Today we have both and people are living longer and that is God's will! | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 155 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Do you understand that at the time the Bible was written, there were no medical physicians available? Prayer was all that they had? Do you understand that there are many born again Christians is the medical professions? | ||
| michael_markley (michael_markley) New member Username: michael_markley Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.174.6.206 |
Mark 9:23 (KJV) Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark , I receive your apology with sincerity ,and will pray for you. michael markley | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 158 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.149.92.220 |
Going to a physician for healing in the times of the bible was about the same as going to the desert for water. Not much hope there. You have no proof that God does not approve of the medical profession. So you believe that our soldiers in Iraq who are wounded should not receive medical treatment but just prayed over or just lay hands on. How do you heal by faith a gunshot wound in the stomach? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
All I know is that God won the debate. A man that can not defend his strict legalistic beliefs by answering simple questions believes in a false doctrine. It's a shame his parents died of cancer. Sometimes when cancer is so advanced, doctors can not cure but just ease the suffering. Sometimes doctors are blamed when they are unable to cure. But isn't it odd when a faith healer can't heal, it is the faith of the sick that is called into question. Nobody blames the so called faith healer. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 164 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.157.157.155 |
And there are just as many websites who expose the phoniness of so called faith healers. So now that you are back please answer my question: So you believe that our soldiers in Iraq who are wounded should not receive medical treatment but just prayed over or just lay hands on. How do you heal by faith a gunshot wound in the stomach? | ||
| michael_markley (michael_markley) New member Username: michael_markley Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.174.76.204 |
Galatians 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.209.82.135 |
You didn't answer my question. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
mark1124 and mr. markley, you two make me want to vomit. I cannot believe that you both have stooped so low. I have been reading your posts and i see a lot of bible verses being thrown at each other. OK WOW im impressed that you know scripture, (not really) do you not think that God would honestly be wounded to see two of his "followers" beating each other up with the very tool that he gave to set the world free? the thing that I see in the both of you is the the fact that you have no love. something that FA neglected also. "you will know them by thier fruit" if I was unsaved and read the threads posted here i would want nothing to do with God | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
I love how you guys take scripture out of context and use it as a way to justify your feelings towards each other. I was born and raised in F.A. I left the church and christianity when I was 15. For over ten years I lived a life that would make any sinner jealous. I have come back to God and am sooo thankful for my salvation. I have learned a lot more about what it means to walk with Jesus in the past year than 15 at F.A. I have often defended my old church (F.A.) and myself and my family for going there and believing the things we did. It wasn't until I read this page did I see how twisted things were. I'm talking about you two who are using this site to slander each so horribly. I am ashamed to think that people who call themselves christians would act like this, ecspecialy in public. You are so good at quoting the bible. How can you miss what it means? You have put the fruit of your works on display here for all to see, and they stink with rot!!! Aren't we supposed to try to be as much like Jesus as we can be? I'm pretty sure He would not speak such slander, filth and lies about you or your apparent enemy here. Maybe next time you read your bible looking for verses that prove your case, you could take a few minutes to think about what it really means, not what you would like it to mean. I once read somewhere that Satans biggest accomplishment is twisting and perverting the words of God or something like that. That is what I see you doing. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
whats with the violin, this sounds interesting. I cant believe that a "brother in the lord" would send a stinking violin back. Hey mark1124 and markley, thanks for the laughs, i can see from this experience (and i have yet to see a post from mark1124 or whatever) that the true spirit of christ is alive and dwelling in you. Hey grow up and get a sense of humor, and whats with the motorcycle riding being less pleasing to God? you guys are nuts, in a good way though, you make me feel joy in my heart. (he,he,) | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
mark, did you actually say that jesus did not die for me? or did I read that wrong. | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.131.26 |
Micah, are the new guys who I think they are? If so then 1124 is wrong. And surly he would not be so stupid as to say we are not saved by God's Grace. I am not trying to beat up on anyone here but I will call 'em as I see 'em. Mr. 1124, you sound like an angry child in most of your latest posts. Maybe you should re-read them as though they were written by someone else. I'm sure you are not like this in the real world because if you are I doubt you are taken seriously. I can see here you have been hurt and I'm sorry for that, but I think you should forgive and forget. If you cannot then you have a serious problem with pride. Mr. Markley, are able to do this also? A simple yes will do for me. I don't want to come off as someone who thinks he is anyone to answer to, I just hate the things I have been reading here. I think most christians would. I think fighting over differences like these is detrimental to living a life following God's will and sharing His love and word with the rest of the world. I would really like to see mr. Markley and Mark 1124 work through their differences, after all, were all on the same team, right? Travis | ||
| michael_markley (michael_markley) New member Username: michael_markley Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.174.76.204 |
thanks Micah for you help too. I,m gonna give it a rest... Jesus is Lord michael | ||
| userfriendly (userfriendly) New member Username: userfriendly Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.148.246.91 |
Wow! Its amazing how some of you will go to the extent of signing up as "someone else" to accuse thy brother; or maybe its not the case at all and thus the one accusing thee of doing so is indeed wrong. I'm not entirely sure which is the case, but I think you should hang the whole argument up and start acting like adults; last I knew, kids didn't take typing lessons till at least 6th grade. peace, Jarvis | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
where is mark 1124? i really want to hear from you. (please read my last post) where are you? and to "jarvis" art thou attacking me? Surely as i live my words will give testament to the fact that thine own self did not take instructions in the ways of typing untill the age of 15. Art thou saying that in thine own haste to judge others thou hast forgotten of thine own upbringing? and to everyone else that says that they are still following the "faith message" you only need one sewer line in your house that is the one going out.(have you heard that before?) The internet is Full of filth and pornography, why would any of you be so blind as to see that you are giving the devil direct access to your minds, have you never once seen a popup? that is why i dont use the internet. i refuse to give satan an open door into my living room. Some may try to say that they can turn the filth by changing the channel, I say that they are fooling themselves. it is only a matter of time before they become numb to the filth and garbage that is on there and fall away. that is why I say ONE SEWER LINE ONLY. OUT PLEASE> | ||
| userfriendly (userfriendly) New member Username: userfriendly Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.249.231.128 |
brother Micah, I hast not henceforth desired that the words coming forth from me, lead us into any temptation from our adversarry to cause strife and division among us; evenso thou shalt be correct in the statement that I hast not taken instructions unto the ways of typing until a later age. On the sewer line; I fullheartedly agree with thy statement. While the internet can be indeed helpful, most christians think they can be overcomers on the internet but have only been deeply deceived by satan and led into temptation beyond their control; the internet is full of many many temptations and it is an open door to a lustful spirit. Brothers and sisters, I wish not to attack anyone, for I know that I must surely remove the log from my own eye. Wheeler, I am in aggreeance with you on your last sentence. We should do all we can to work out our differences and not hold any hard feelings towards oneanother. peace, Jarvis | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
what happened to the heresyhunter? i read a post from him last night and now its gone. And what about mark1124? im still waiting for your reply. | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.130.108 |
Brother Micah, Art thou not casting stones while living in a dwelling made of a transparent, brittle substance? The last time I visited your place of residence there was only one sewer line, going out but there were FOUR coming in!!! Hast thou been living in the presence of these portholes to all that is wicked and evil for so long that thou art oblivios to their very existence? Thy brain hast surely been fried with the use of illegal substances. James 5.1 Go now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. | ||
| ree110 (ree110) New member Username: ree110 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.144.61 |
It would seem these boys were not taken out to the breezeway or broom closet quite often enough during the meetings for a good paddling. | ||
| ree110 (ree110) New member Username: ree110 Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.144.61 |
...For would not the rod of correction drive out such childish debating over doctorinal issues that really will never be resolved while we live in the flesh? Show me two people who completely agree on every single issue. It is simply not possible. | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.130.167 |
Brother Jarvis, If you need any help getting the splinters out of your eye after removing the log, I would be more than happy to be of assistance. Lev. 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
thuo art not all ganging up on me like thy forfathers gangst up on the beloved Hobie? I shall in my own uprighteoussness gang up upon myself to tell you that box mixes are surely the way to death itself and thy shalt only love penutbutter. for that is the only way to doing right, and if you shall seek a doctor for advice then surely you shall also be weak enough to clean a wound so as to avoid infectoin as opposed to trusting in your faith to clean and heal the wound for you. And what is love? it is for those that do not have the faith to believe that the greatest of these is faith. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
have you not heard of hobart e freemans great preference in recipes from scratch? and his liking of peanut butter? "are you sure you want to eat that Joey?" (Friends, season 2 episode 21) | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.77.22 |
and to jarvis, after you remove your log, let me know maybey you can help me with mine, its really big and its causing trouble with my septic system | ||
| userfriendly (userfriendly) New member Username: userfriendly Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.249.231.128 |
Hey! Ree110. I've visited that blasted broom closet more often than Michael Jackson's been to a plastic surgeon "wherever you go, there shall ye be" | ||
| userfriendly (userfriendly) New member Username: userfriendly Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.249.231.128 |
Yo! Mr Mark1124 , you never answered Micah on this statement. quote by mark1124: "I have repented for the activities of the past, in particular to what I have posted. I deeply regret what I wrote here. At least my repentence was genuine. Whether anyone wants to believe that or not, it doesn't matter. Jesus died for me on the cross; not any of you, especially Markley." If you truly mean what you said in the last dozen words of that paragraph...........; How dare you speak so!! And you call yourself a christian? I would really really like to hear back from you on this one. I sincerely hope (for you own good) that you did not mean that as is sounds. Jarvis. | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.131.122 |
HEY BROTHER JARVIS! I think mr.mark maybe meant it was Jesus who died on the cross for him, not one of us, especially markley. That was how I read it anyways, because I doubt a christian (mark 1124)would be foolish enough to really believe Jesus did not die for someone on the cross, especially markley. | ||
| userfriendly (userfriendly) New member Username: userfriendly Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.249.231.128 |
Good thinkin' wheeler. I suspect you are correct. It is good to have other perspectives on stuff like this; keeps us all on our hooves. I reckon Mark hasn't checked back since Micah 1st inquired about that statement otherwise he would've wanted to clearify that. | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.131.104 |
Because you agree with me, I know you are a man of great wisdom. May the world be blessed with your wonderful, beautiful, and truly expediant mind for a good while to come. Perhaps one day we could spend some time sharing insight with one another. I feel you are someone who can actualy appreciate my profround intellect. Proverbs 2:10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul. | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.131.111 |
brooooother miiiiicah, You should be VERY CAREFUL!!! I am a christian, and I happen take a liken to box mixes. Are you trying to say my soul is in jeopardy? On second thought, maybe you are so wise, I just don't understand you and my tiny brain can't handle your wisdom. Are you planning on starting a church any time soon? If so, let me know so I can attend and become a follower. Should I send you money now? Do you think we could use the name faith assembly? If not, I think we should try to think of something as close to that as possible. Like maybe faith assembler or faith assmemblyer. Or maybe we could abreviate the last word so it could look like it was either of those when in reality it's assembly. Yep, I think it could work. Please e-mail me if you want to do it. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
To wheeler, i actually have family members that attended Mike Greens church in bowling green ohio and they named their church "abiding by faith assembly". thats pretty sweet if you ask me. How about "abiding by hobart e freeman"? that would be cool. and to Jesusthemightygod, I grew up in faith assembly and i got the distinct impression that anyone who attended any other church was on the fast track to hell. To this day I cannot figure out why. That is just one of the many reasons why I cannot defend their message and doctrine. I believe with my whole heart that they were right on some things, but from reading these posts on this site I see how exclusive this doctrine is. Its amazing to me that the only people that jesus openly talked bad about and did not like at all were the pharisees, the people that knew the law and fallowed it to the tee. every jot and tittle, as some would say.I have alot of questions, and the people that would be able to give me the answers are being silent. (aka mark1124) I can say that alot of good came out of the teachings, but I can also find alot of good that came out of Waco and david koresh if I look for it, and the bad in both cases seems to outweigh the good. it seems to me that that should not be right. I cannot imagine that the idea that I know it all and my doctrine is foolproof and if you dont see eye to eye with me then you are danmed, is the message that jesus lived, i dont see that at all. I see him calling the people that knew it all a den of vipers. and then going out and having supper with the people in a bar. thats what I see, and if there is anyone who dissagrees with me, where are you? and why are you so silent? the message of faith assembly was sooooo exclusive, (as you can see on this website) and the people that think that they are still following the "faith message" are STILL so excusive, How can they think that they are becoming more like jesus? I think that they are becoming more like the pharisees, thinking that they know it all and yet knowing nothing about LOVE AND KINDNESS, the true message that jesus himself LIVED. If this is not really the case then find me the people that saw firsthand the results of fa. The children that grew up in the church? have they had to come to a new understanding of God? I know I have, because the one I was presented with was grossly perverted.] anyone have the guts to respond? on a lighter note, Merry christmas to all!!!! | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.138.164 |
Hey micah, Marie started a new thread you may be interested in. It's about the effects of f.a. on the children. Check it out. ...and to all a good night! | ||
| ree110 (ree110) New member Username: ree110 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.138.174 |
Brothers, I would definitely have to say Dr. Freeman was right on about the peanut butter. it rawks =) Also, I read a quote by a great classic bible teacher(can't remember if it's Murray or Tozer) that said something to the effect: Our heads are full of knowledge but our feet stink. In other words, like it says in 1 Cor. 8:1, "knowledge puffs up(or makes arrogant), but love edifies(builds up)". This arrogant attitude is one I learned as well growing up at F.A. It took years for me to really see how disgusting it was, how bad it looks to others, and how much it grieves the Father. Legalism is something you don't see until you are free from it. I think you can have your personal convictions about issues but if it's not something black and white in the Bible, then we must not ever try to make it a rule that everyone else has to live by even if we feel strongly that God wants us to live by it. Everyone grows at different rates and each person has a different calling and functions as a different organ in the Body. How can we so ignorantly expect each person to live and act and talk exactly how we see as the right way? Wow, it really took a lot for the Lord to break me out of that mindset! But it's only God who can change hearts and each person has to be willing to change before He can come in and do what He wants in our lives. Freedom! That is what He so wants us to walk in! | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
ree110, you hit the nail on the head. saweet thanx, | ||
| wheeler (wheeler) New member Username: wheeler Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.241.129.179 |
I concur! | ||
| yahshua (yahshua) New member Username: yahshua Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 207.44.154.35 |
Such false ministers as this, I say are those spoken of in by the prophet Jeremias... Jer. 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning, That they may hear? Indeed their ear is uncircumcised, And they cannot give heed. Behold, the word of the LORD is a reproach to them; They have no delight in it. Jer. 6:11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD. I am weary of holding it in. “I will pour it out on the children outside, And on the assembly of young men together; For even the husband shall be taken with the wife, The aged with him who is full of days. Jer. 6:12 And their houses shall be turned over to others, Fields and wives together; For I will stretch out My hand Against the inhabitants of the land,” says the LORD. Jer. 6:13 “Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them, Everyone is given to covetousness; And from the prophet even to the priest, Everyone deals falsely. Jer. 6:14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly, Saying, “Peace, peace!’ When there is no peace. Jer. 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed; Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; At the time I punish them, They shall be cast down,” says the LORD. Jer. 6:16 ¶ Thus says the LORD: “Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it, Then you will find rest for your souls. My old Way is on the earth again; Peace and healing can be found there, My Abba sets the lonely in families, He heals the brokenhearted and weary ones. As my People of old were one in mind and heart, and walked in one Way, together with me, sharing all things with one another, and also sharing in my suffering together with me, so is it once more with my holy ones that I am raising up. He who hears them, hears Me; and He who hears Me, hears Him who sent Me. He who rejects them, rejects Me; and He who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me. The Way to My Way can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.153.134.232 |
RE: "YAHSHUA" This is a teaching from the communities Apostle "Yoneq", otherwise known as Eugene Elbert Spriggs, that "YAHSHUA" (and David Alaxander in other places) in his above post is prosletising for. For more info see "Twelve Tribes" on this web site. Execution of Justice (Letter from Elbert concerning discipline and the seed of Abraham) The reason Isaac was so willing to let his father sacrifice him was because he had been raised his whole life knowing that he did not belong to himself, but belonged to his father, and he was not living for himself, but living for his father. Hephzibah is coming to understand that she is living for her father and belongs to him. The other day she was having great difficulty being obedient to his command: not to suck her thumb in bed. Elbert asked her to stick out her thumb because he was going to cut it off. He took a huge pair of scissors and came toward her. She was terrified, but (after receiving her discipline) she willingly stuck out her thumb to be cut off rather than let it cause her to stumble in her obedience to her father. Elbert didn’t actually cut it off, but he wants Hephzibah to understand that it is better to have your hand cut off now rather than later. He wants her to be saved. It is absolutely necessary to raise our children to know that they do not belong to themselves, but to their father. How else can they believe that they don’t belong to themselves except by training them as our Heavenly Father trains us to believe this. We only “regain our true life” if we lose our false and criminal life. Whoever wants to save Execution of Justice Page 6 1900.00.16-L01.DOC 020612.1326 his life will lose it, and whoever loses it for My sake shall find it. Abraham received back the promise only after he had killed his only son the only son who could bring about the promise. Abraham had faith to surrender his only heir. Abraham was tested. He endured under trial to see whether he would obey (Heb 11:17-19; Gen 22:1; Jms 1:12). Abraham obeyed by faith for he heard God say, “Abraham, take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go sacrifice him.” The error of “the local church” and many churches is in allowing doctrine to substitute for obedience. We can do as they say, but not as they do, for they do not truly discern the Body of Messiah though they have much wonderful doctrine. Without seeing Gen 18:19, the Body of Messiah doesn’t make sense. Note: Elbert is not the little girls father but is the apostle of the community. I don't see a close resemblance to his lying to a little girl and teaching the faith that Abraham had in Isaac. David responded on Dec 21 I don't know anything about the above...but I DO KNOW that the truth that sets men free can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org It is for Christians Only. Truth will always be attacked. Those who are wise will not be put off by such things. The fact is, anyone who wants to see the fruit of our lives can visit us at anytime; and see that our children are some of the most wonderful on the whole earth. As the Word says, "wisdom is justified by her children". Sincerely, david My reply Dec 22 David I don't know anything about the above… Are you saying you don't know if Spriggs taught that and if it is one of the communities teachings or you don't know if there is anything wrong with what was alleged in the teaching CD that Jacob took from the community? "Yahshua" Was your apostle speaking from the holy spirit when he threatened with a large pair of scissors to cut off the terrified little girls thumb and did lying to her to scare her teach her the faith of Isaac with Abraham? Is that why Isaac trusted his father? Because someone terrified him with a lie? | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
what happened to the fa crowd? i thought this was supposed to be about hobart and his following not this yoneq and his crazy ideas. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Hello all! I just stumbled across this site yesterday while conducting a search for Dr. Freeman. Before I begin my story, I am compelled to say something regarding the posts over the past few months. I am frightened by the careless use of the name of Jesus by some of the posters. His name is higher than any other name and demands respect and honor. Be careful what you say in His name. A lot of the above discussions only served to bring honor to the devil. Unfortunately, there are some really messed up folks out there. With that being said, let me briefly tell you about my story. I was one of those kids that grew up in F.A. My parents were introduced to Dr. Freeman in the very early 70's in Alabama. He and June have been in our house numerous times, and we have been to their house many times. We moved to Indiana in 1978 to attend church. That is the same year I started 1st grade. I can remember as a young child that there was a wonderful feeling in our fellowship. My dad would preach on Sunday mornings every few months, and I always wanted to preach too. I would even ask Bruce Kinsey if I could preach (he always scheduled the Sunday morning preachers.) As I got older, I was subjected to many of the same things other F.A. kids were at school. I had to leave the room for Christmas parties (not birthdays - my family always celebrated birthdays), puppet shows, movies, etc. It was difficult, but I survived. Unfortunately, many of my old friends from those days couldn't handle things when they turned 18. Many got pregnant (or got someone pregnant), many got into drugs, some got their driver's licenses taken away for drunk driving. It seemed to me as I got older that many parents were trying to take their kids OUT of the world, rather than teaching them not to be OF the world. As my spiritual maturity has grown over the years, I now understand the solid foundation I received in the Word (even though it was hard for an 8 year old to sit through a 2-hour sermon). I have gone back and listened to many of Dr. Freeman's tapes as an adult and can se a distinct difference between the early and mid-70's vs. the 80's. In the 70's, the church was being equipped to go out and minister. In the 80's you were looked down upon if you moved away. People thought you were going to hell. I agree with some of the others that Dr. Freeman changed over the years and introduced a lot of legalism I remember as an elementary student having to throw away my running shoes because Dr. Freeman said that the homosexuals were wearing them. The doctrine was great, but the daily applications went terribly wrong. I have to lay much of the blame on the members that took everything that came out of his mouth as pure gospel, rather than his interpretations. As such, the peer pressure from within became the driving force behind much of the problem As was my family's intent from the start, we moved back to Alabama in 1986. My personal life strayed from God to some degree while I was in college. However, after I got married and had children of my own, I have been able to build on a solid foundation and have been able to discern much of the good I received from the bad. Although, I have had some difficult times and had many questions, God has kept me close to him. I have been able to avoid the bitterness that has taken hold of many of my old friends. I thank God for my salvation and for the teachings I have had the priviledge of sitting under. I continue to be interested in what has happened to many of the folks I used to know. If you would like to discuss anything further with me, please feel free to continue this discussion. God Bless. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
It is very unfortunate that what started out as a meaningful discussion regarding our experiences with Dr. Freeman and Faith Assembly has done more to bring glory to the devil than to Jesus. I have never heard of any of the posters on this site, but I can tell you that this is not the way people acted when I was a youth at Faith Assembly 20 years ago. This division is straight out of the pit and has sent all the legitimate posters running. It is unfortunate that only mindless drivel remains. If there is anyone else out there that feels this way or would like to get back to the original purpose of this board, feel free to respond. Thanks and have a blessed day! | ||
| mark1124 (mark1124) Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 81 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.31.28.164 |
Titus 3:10-11 “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.” 2 John 1:9-11, “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” 2 Peter 2:1-3 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.” St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas". | ||
| michael_markley (michael_markley) Junior Member Username: michael_markley Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.174.76.205 |
For unto us a Child is born unto us a Son is given The government shall be upon His shoulders His name shall be Wonderful Consoler The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father “My Jesus” I love Kenneth Copeland with all my Heart! May the Lord Jesus Greatly bless Him Michael Markley | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Is there anyone out there besides Frick and Frack?? I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old, and this board sounds like my living room every night. If everyone else has abandoned this ship, then I will as well. I am really not being edified by this. Thanks to all, and have a blessed day! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Goodbye - I can't take it anymore! Before I leave, there is one question to ponder regarding the utter heresy of JDS - If Jesus became sin, then who died for Jesus?? Due to the nature of this thread, I do not plan on posting again. If someone would like to discuss the "old days," I would be happy to do so. Just let me know. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
I know I said I wouldn't post anymore, by I just read one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen and had to respond. It is in regards to the KJV and the statement that we are attacking the sovereignty of God by questioning it, because it is 400 years old. I think that is quite possibly the most ridiculus comment on this board. The inspired, or "God-breathed" scriptures were the original Hebrew in the OT and the Greek in the NT, which are thousands of years old. I agree that the KJV is an excellent translation, but it fails to properly translate many words. Examples include: names (there is no James in the Bible, the translators were honoring the King of England by using that name), there is no Jehovah in the Bible (that is a combination of Yahweh, or Yahveh, and Adonai), and hell (as referenced above regarding leaving "my soul in hell") is really Sheol, or the place of departed spirits. As for the rest of the garbage I have read, I don't believe it even merits a response. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
it warms my heart to see you two going at it again! I thought you had given up on attacking each other, but no you are steadfast and strong. Keep up the good work, as long as you are busy fighting each other you give satan two less people to worry about, if you know what I mean. I am glad to know that when I feel imature as a christian I have a place to go to make me feel better! You guys are the christian Jerry Springer show! Hey rock on and rock out!! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Hey, Micah! It's great to "see" you. Actually, it is nice to hear from anyone other than the two kids on this board. By the way, I thought you had a good post back in December. As my previous posts stated, I grew up at FA, as well. Who knows, we may have been friends. Just to give you a time frame, I will be 33 next month, and was at FA until 1986. As for carrying on conversations with people on this board, I've decided that I will respond only to posts that have legitimate comments/questions and ones that edify. Thanks again, and have a great day. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Mr. Mighty, I am responding to your previous post. To answer your questions, I'll start with the simple answers first. I am not currently a member of Faith Assembly. My family moved away in 1986 (I was 14.) As for Mark1124, I have never heard his name as mentioned above (Mark Scaliotti). I have not kept up, nor do I know any of the current leadership at the current F.A. Now for the more difficult answers. I do not classify Dr. Freeman as a murderer. I do believe that some of his teachings were misguided interpretations. As I stated before, I think the people who followed him are as much to blame. There was a great deal of peer pressure when I was there. I agree that many people died (the figure of 100 is the number most people used). I think their view of doctors was faulty. For my own life, I have a hard time reconciling the Bible's teachings with never going to a doctor. Since becoming an adult, I do have regular doctor visits. I put my faith in Jesus and not in doctors, but I have no problem going to a doctor for a sinus infection or an ingrown toenail. That doesn't mean that I don't still pray for my healing, however. Hopefully, all this makes sense. I know that I have probably opened myself up to criticism from the hard-core FA folks, but it doesn't bother me. I am very secure in my faith. Thanks for post. | ||
| mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.31.28.164 |
Jesus Said there would be many False Teachers ……….. One of them is Mr. Markley's hero...Copeland. Praise the Lord for Hobart Freeman. I love him because his teaching has set me free from the false teaching of Kenneth Copeland. His teaching is right in line with the word of God. I have been set free because of God's anointed servant. I am thankful to have the tapes and that they are going out still so that more people can get free from the traditions of men. I can't say the same for Markley's hero. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
The faith that I have in Jesus is nothing of my own doing. I was blessed with Godly parents and was blessed to sit under the strong meat of the word as a child. As I've said before, I may not have understood all the deep theology as a child, but my spirit absorbed it. As a result, things seem to come easier to me now when studying God's Word. I think another benefit from sitting under the teaching at FA as a child is that I was too young to really get caught up in all the legalism that took over in the later part of Dr. Freeman's ministry. By the time I became an adult, I had the firm foundation I needed to interpret the Word myself. I didn't need someone to "tell" me what to do. All in all, God has truly blessed me more than I deserve. I owe it all to Him! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Mighty, I can't go as far as you on your comments regarding Dr. Freeman. I have heard many people say things that Dr. Freeman supposedly said. I cannot remember hearing any of those statements, and as such, am unable to comment one way or another. However, just because I do not agree with some of his teachings and interpretations does not mean that I discount everything he said. In fact, I will occasionally borrow a tape or two from my parents to listen in my car on the way to work. I am currently listening to the series on Biblical Theology. As far as the doctrine goes, I have agreed with everything that I've heard. He even made some statements that surprised me, such as "I lump all denominations in one bucket, but there are many saved people out in these churches." He has also referenced several authors, both secular and non-secular. The date of this series was in 1973 (I was one at the time). On another note, why is it that when your post first appeared, it was under the Mighty name, but when I updated it, it was then showing under Michael Markley? Why the multiple names? Thanks. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
hey there duncan, I dont know who you are, I am 26 now and I stayed in FA (because of my parents) untill the end when steve handed the leadership over to malcom and he moved and started his own church. I (as you) had to come to a new understanding of God after the things that I saw and heard, I have some posts on this site where I am being sarcastic and such because it drives me nuts to see people still arguing and rehashing old stupid trivial things that gave FA a bad name and ultimately brought it down. I am interested to know more about you, your story and such, I am amazed at the number of people from my generation and on that have totly lost site of God, it can be depressing sometimes. I often ask myself why, what good ever came out of FA? two guys going round and round about JDS heresy and wars and praying and how you should pray and defending a man.... a man who was no greater than me??? what is up with that? | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Thanks for one of the better posts in some time. Your family stayed around longer than mine. When we moved, we weren't technically leaving the church. We were just going back to the state where my parents were from. As such, we went to a satellite church for a while that was led by Jim Oswalt (remember him??). As things continued to evolve, my parents decided to look elsewhere for a church and were never satisfied with what they found. Speaking of Jim Oswalt, he still lives in Alabama and divorced his wife, Ruth Ann, back in 1998, and married a lady that was going to his church. It was a sad situation. I have recently heard that he is trying to get back into the ministry at a Church of God in Birmingham. I guess that whole "husband of one wife" qualification for a minister doesn't mean anything to him. Thanks again for the intelligent post! I look forward to continued dialogue. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Mr. Fivefalseprophecy, If people like me cared?? I was barely a teenager when I left, and have never been to an FA meeting since. Take care with your tone and choose your words carefully. I can't and won't be drawn into a discussion such as this. | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Fivefold, You are correct. I should have never stooped to the level of name calling. It is beneath me and not very Christian-like. I apologize. In addition, I am not here to defend FA or Dr. Freeman. I live my life and raise my family, as best I can, based upon the Word of God. One day, I will have to stand before an almighty God and give an account for my life and the life of my family. As heads of their households, the fathers of children who died will also have to give an account before the throne. We will be without excuse, regardless of what some teacher told to do or not to do. No one was forced to do anything against their will. God will only judge us on our actions. | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
question, how do you "recieve" a spirit? Ive been away from the ole jargin for quite some times and some things sound more silly to me than sense making. anyway that being said I am glad to see that the few days ive been away from the site have been productive. alots been said and I am amazed as usual. If ive said it once ive said it a thousand times you guys make me laugh!! Its good to see that some of Gods children are fighting and some are loving, im a lover not a hater. I am adult enough to understand what went on in FA, even though I was a child at the time. And I dont need to blame hobart and his teachings for people dying and such, If you take a step back and look at the situation you CANNOT say that those who foolishly shunned doctors and such did not do so of their own free will. I understand what personal responsibility means, for those of you that dont it means that only I am to blame for who I listen to and what I do, as tragic as my actions may be i and only I am to blame. If I follow a david coresh or a hobart freeman I cannot lay blame at their feet for the mess I make of my or my childrens lives. Hobart will have to answer to God about his responsibility as to what he taught for himself. I dont care about that I care about me. Enough said. I really liked what somebody said about being decieved by such a strong spirit and I was humored at the fearful tone. Whats to be scared of? More babies dying? I think your fighting the wrong battle, feel free to post all agreeance and disses. I will recieve all your "spirits" even if they are fearfull and lying and antagonizing and wicked and name-calling and whatever else, Im not afraid!! its all good. peace | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Micah, I agree with your assessment of the situation. I am enjoying the discussion. As an added bonus, thanks to all the quotes, I'm getting the opportunity to brush up on scripture verses. In fact, I think I'll pass along one of my favorites: Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." I especially like that last part about sowing discord amoung the bretheren!! As a rebuttal to Fivefold, the difference with Dr. Freeman and Jim Jones is that once people were on the commune in Ghana, they were not allowed to leave and were forced to drink the poison or get shot. No one was forced to go to FA and no one was forced to stay away from doctors. I know people who went to doctors and I know people who left the church. The problem with society today, including Christians, is that no one is willing to take responsibility for their own actions. They always want to "pass the buck." Go back and read I Kings 18. This is the account of Elijah praying to stop rain. When he went to see King Ahab, Ahab asked if he was the trouble-maker of Israel. Elijah told Ahab that he, as king, was responsible for everything, not Elijah. It's time for people to stop the blame game, like Adam saying it was Eve's fault, and Eve saying it was the serpent's fault. On another note, Mighty/Michael, you never answered my question a few posts back regarding the multiple name postings. I know Mark1124 answered for you, but I'm curious. I hope your not trying to lie to us to make us think that these are separate people. Mark1124 states that you are also Fivefold. I don't know that, but I do know about the others. Please don't take this question as an attack on you. I'm just curious as to the reason. Thanks! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Five, Let me correct one of your comments. I did not say people at FA could go to doctors with relative ease. I stated that I know people who went to doctors. So to say that I was "intellectually dishonest" is ridiculous. Secondly, I had an family member die as a result of refusing medical treatment that could have helped, so I believe I am a little closer to this subject than you. Was I upset that it happened? YES! Do I wish I could have done something for her? YES! However, being bitter will not gain me a thing, except an ulcer (and then I would have to go see the doctor myself!) As I've said repeatedly (and for your benefit, I will say it yet again), I am NOT defending Dr. Freeman. On the other hand, I will not speak evil of him. I am not going to speak evil of anyone. I do not agree with you on this issue, but I am not going to speak against you, either. That is my personality, and I can not be shaken. Thanks again for the interesting and enjoyable discussion! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Mark, Thanks for the continued encouragement. However, I've dealt with many different folks from different walks of life, and my faith in Christ is not shaken. I have another family member that is bitter because of the way they were treated when they left FA, so I've heard it all. The older I get, the more grounded in the Word of God I become. As long as I stick to His Word and not try to read anything into to it that isn't there, I will be fine. Thanks again! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Five, Would you mind posting under the Mr. Mighty name? You were a lot nicer to me when you were that poster. Thanks again! | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
Heres the truth mr. fivefold> (btw. we can all see your IP address as being 4.235.241.40 so we know that you are using different names, theres a way to fix that you know) I need to clarify my statement from last night for some people (or person) that cannot read with understanding. I look at it this way, I think that hobart is responsible for having a pastoral position in which he used to lead people down the wrong path in some areas. The reason I say some is because he had the old testament prophets down, they still use his books in some seminaries. Now I am grown up enough to recognize that people are full of good and bad, for example, I dont think that bill clinton was the best president weve ever had but I will say that his signing of the "protection of marrige bill and his welfare reform bill was extremely good. I give him points for that. The ever so simple point that I am making is that even people doing scandalous things can do good at the same time. CAN, being the key word, (notice I did not say always) so question number one: was everything hobart taught wrong and bad? this is a yes or no question, yes it was all bad or no it was not. OK i say no and one of the only reasons I say no is because he was a genuis on the OT. can anyone at least give him that? So I think I have my very simple and easy to understand fact brought home, that being that not EVERYTHING he taught was wrong. OK now for the second question: where in my last post did I say that he is not in any way responsible for the 100 deaths? its like this, I believe that as a pastor that taught misleading doctrine God will hold him accountable, as I said quote: Hobart will have to answer to God about his responsibility as to what he taught for himself. My whole point of the whole post was that I (key word being I) dont blame him for people believing and following what he said. I do believe that he he will be held accountable for what he said, and those who followed him will be held responsible for who they followed. Its a two sided coin, and both parties will be held acountable. that is why I dont lay all the blame at his feet, even though sometimes I feel like I want to. But after all wasnt he the one that neglected to teach love and grace? So how can I learn that? And who is the judge? Me? Can I damn him to hell? Thank god thats not my job, its his and I will gladly let him do what is right, and that is why I dont care, I care about me, looking out for the attitude of my heart. That is my only concern, because on judgement day I cannot look God in the face and say "well he made me do it" | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
So, Mark, How's the weather where you are? It's a little chilly here, but the sun has been out all day. It's been beautiful for a couple of days. Hopefully, God will bless us with good weather on Saturday, because I am planning to enjoy His creation by playing golf. It's a great way to relax after a week of posting on this nutty board! I hope you have a great day! | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Micah, Welcome back! I thought you left me hanging! By the way, I don't receive your spirit of questioning IP addresses. Have a great evening! | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
I dont receive your spirit of not recieving spirits there duncan, dont you know Matthew 12:43 (KJV) When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Ya i went there. I dont even know how this applies but I will gladly use it way out of context just to have the chance to throw a scipture at you.  Much love, micah | ||
| duncan (duncan) New member Username: duncan Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.113.113.47 |
I was told that when Mary Smith was sick, she refused medical treatment and was forced to lie in the middle of her driveway for three days. Finally, ants came and carried her off, and she was literally drug into the anthill and eaten. If only Bruce Kinsey hadn't wanted to go hunting! | ||
| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
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| micah (micah) New member Username: micah Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.72.234 |
hey mark how do you feel about people trying to make money off of people that have died? Im not trying to come down on you or anything, (im a lover not a hater) I was just a bit curious. I know of someone right now that is compiling songs from two former members of faith assembly and is planning to have the compilation for sale. I dont see what kind of market he will have as far as sales go but for me its a question of character. I dont have a preconcieved idea about the sale of hobarts tapes and such, as to wether its right or wrong, I can come up with arguements for both sides. I was just wondering about your opinion. | ||
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