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anchored
New member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.73.194
| | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2007 - 3:01 pm: | 
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Hey Tone, since we are in this thread, "Memories of the Foundation," do you remember the following?? If not, let me refresh your wrinkled old memory a tad.
Mike B, Fermin M, and I were ferverishly trying to finish up the big curb around the Davenport Rd. mansion that we had been struggling with for weeks using scraps of splintered plywood and other unsuitable mickey mouse materials and nothing but trashy equipment at our disposal.
The sun was relentlessly beating down and we were sweating our brains out, thirsty, tired and frustrated as we were struggling with this unusually difficult task and wishing that maybe Tony or Sue would find it in their hearts to at least bring out a refreshing drink of water, lemonade, a soda or even some kool-aid, any bit of nourishment from inside their air-conditioned comfortable mansion that we, the brothers, had just erected for them to live out their lavish lifestyle.
We were at the point of desperation and frustration looking all around for anything that might work for forms as we kept trying one thing after another and experimenting with junk.
Much to our amazement, instead of coming out with any cold refreshment, Tony Alamo suddenly came flying out the back door of that air-conditioned mansion in a screaming rage and threw a big tantrum right in front of all three of us. Screaming to the top of his lungs he said, "What's taking you so long to get this curb done? I could have had this done weeks ago. YOU PEOPLE are just holding up the Lord's work here." As he was screaming like a little girl, he picked up this old piece of raggedy plywood and slammed it down into the form foundation. Then, in a flippant rage, he turned around and went back into his nice cool air-conditioned comfort zone, back into the comforts of his nice new mansion that we had just built for them, slamming the door behind him.
The three of us looked at one another in amazement not believing what we had just seen and heard. I thought right then, what a hypocrite. I've never seen anyone act like that in my whole life, especially someone claiming to be a "pastor."
After about 10 minutes went by, Susie came out with her little Tony. Tony's pouting face, looking down towards the ground, had gathered much blackness and he couldn't even look us in the eyes. Sue said, "now Tony, apologize to the brothers for the way you acted." He said in this little wimpy voice, "I'm sorry." He still didn't look directly at us. I knew he didn't mean it and it was only because Sue made him say it, that he even said it. I can tell when someone is really sorry and, he wasn't.
Tony, I know you would have never apologized on your own. But you, being Susie's house pig at the time, you knew you'd better do what you were told. Maybe that's why you treat women the way you do today. It's a revenge thing. None of the women who you married who were adults stayed with you and put up with your nonsense for very long. The only ones you can control are the young underage teenagers and under that you can manipulate and rape and subjugate. |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.73.194
| | Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 7:11 am: |
|
Subjugate:
Synonyms: bear down, beat down, box in, coerce, compel, conquer, crush, defeat, enslave, enthrall, force, henpeck, hold sway, kick around*, master, overcome, overthrow, put down, quell, reduce, rule, rule over, subdue, suppress, tame, triumph, vanquish
Antonym: liberate
Liberator: The Great Deliverer |
mixter
Junior Member
Username: mixter
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 69.231.16.103
| | Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 10:20 am: |
|
Hello, I knew Fermin and respected Mike.
You left me with nothing to add. Mike B had a
goodness about him that I find hard to explain.
Now with Fermin you could not help liking him.
I miss them.
Now with Tony you took the wind out my sails.
Those are my words also you just beat me to the punch. I think his wives are part of his end game.
When he tries to liquidate his assets and blow the U.S.A. They will come in with doctor bills
this bil that bill etc. IRS does not have all
his assets under lock and key. |
mixter
Junior Member
Username: mixter
Post Number: 27
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 69.231.16.103
| | Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 10:23 am: |
|
I ment to say anchored instead of Tony. I need coffee. |
heynow
Junior Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.130.210.87
| | Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 10:54 pm: |
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Mixter, I would like to talk to you before this board shuts down. Email me if you like thizizit@hotmail.com
Heynow |
skeptik
New member
Username: skeptik
Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.55.235.169
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 1:53 am: |
|
and all of you can reach me at wjaynes@hotmail.com |
wilma
Junior Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 37
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 65.35.179.43
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 7:49 pm: |
|
Posted by worm-can opener on Fouke forum Topixnet
Saturday Jun 30
[referring to Tony and Susan Alamo] They both planned, schemed, brainwashed, and ruthlessly used all the hollywood hippies, to obtain the life-style they both had sought after, all their lives. Tony's big wish, was to be a bigtime singer (could not obtain a voice-box transplant) and decided to use a real singer's name, and psyche all of us out. he always threw movie star's names around, like they were his big tights- they have probably never heard of him. how could we have known who he did, or did not know ?? he suppossedly had a "baseball bat brigade" a group of mafia types, who recompensed his enemies (always trying to appear so bad and scary) said that he traveled around in a limo, with all his entourage, said they would pull up at a hot-dog stand. someone would put a pillow down, for him to step onto, another one would spray him with cologne, etc. shows several heart's desires, wanting to appear super important, worshipped, having a limo, servants to pamper him, loving to create a scene. he's definately one of a kind !!
worm-can opener
Saturday Jun 30
[Tony] he stated that before he was saved (only God knows) he hated all women, and thought he was put here on earth to punish them (looks like that desire has been partially fulfilled) he said he referred to them as "house-pigs".
As for Susan, she attacked with a venom, with these loud, degrading, scalding "open-rebukes", with name-calling, attempting to make you feel like you were hopeless, a degenerate. If she hated you, she took your child away, giving them to someone else. she would send you back to Calif., keeping the child there in Ark. Everything was done for the sake of vindictiveness. The people who had old money in their families were treated much better than the common ex-hippies with no trust-fund, no hope of any form of inheritance. the two of them were just on the prowl for whatever money they could rake in. I was once waiting for a flight from Ark. to L.A., when one of the sisters (still there, in the perv org) said to me; "tony says that whenever you fly, to take out a big insurance policy from one of those airport machines, that was the devil will never let the plane crash, because the beneficiary is the tony alamo foundation" toe-knee would even use our DECEASE, to his own benefit, because all the money has always gone straight to himself !!!
Saturday Jun 30
it's for sure that they conspired together, both wanting to have furs, rings, limo's and eat at high-class restaurants, spend money in the boutiques of Beverly Hills. We truly were peons, doing slave labor, year after year. anyone who questioned them was thrown out on their ear, and accused of being a devil, troublemaker, reprobate, accuser of the saints. |
wilma
Junior Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 38
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 65.35.179.43
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 7:52 pm: |
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posted by modesto on topix.net Fouke forum
Marina, CA
Members ate food collected from dumpsters in back of super markets.The Alamos ate food that was bought by trusted people who roamed Los Angeles and even farther out in California to find the food,from only the very best most expensive health food stores and organic farms.The food was then packaged and sent by air out to Nashville then later, Ft. Smith, Arkansas every day so the Alamos could have only the best.Same sort of process with their clothes ,cars and many other things they wanted(Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills was a frequent stop for the clothes, the standing order for the buyers was"price is no object").
The main(probably the only)major source of income back then for the Alamos were the checks turned in from the followers who worked the many farms, in the fields and orchards around Bakersfield,Oxnard and other places in California.The "Alamo of Nashville" and those sorts of ventures were just more like monuments to their vanity back then and another part of their vulgar display of wealth. |
wilma
Junior Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 39
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 65.35.179.43
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 9:02 pm: |
|
posted on fouke forum topix.net
This was on the AOL News today,the video of one's woman's story of escaping from a life of polygamy in Colorado City, AZ.
http://video.aol.com/video/one-womans-escape-...
Kathy Nicolson said, "I just wish more people would speak up about it", as tears welled up in her eyes, and you could see her chin quivering with emotion.
This should encourage us here to do just that, speak up and keep on speaking up. It was so great to see this on the national media. I hope and pray that it brings attention to just how serious this problem is and puts the spotlight right where it belongs, on the degenerate men who perpetrate this evil.
I hope you all can view this, but if not, her story will be in this month's issue of Glamour magazine.
Or check out this blog from the Salt Lake Tribune:
Glamour takes on Polygamy
The July issue of ''Glamour'' magazine includes a very interesting first-person story by a woman raised in the FLDS community. Kathy Jo Nicholson describes attending Alta Academy, where Warren Jeffs served as principal, and the troubles that began when boys noticed her.
The story includes numerous pictures of Kathy Jo, including one of her holding the wedding gown she began to sew at age 14, and a photo of her wedding to an outsider that was attended by her three mothers. |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 30
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 11:40 am: |
|
Posted by worm-can-opener on Fouke forum Topix net
ISN'T IT GREAT TO BE FREE?
worm-can-opener says:
"YES, AMEN !! we know what we're talking about, after being in total bondage, we are now FREE, to go to church, without living within the walls, enjoy our homes, watch movies, eat out, have a yard sale, bake some cookies, sleep till noon, have friends, shop, go on trips, you name it !! so nice , not to be dominated and controlled, deprived of sleep, be on some ridiculous schedule, every day of our lives, be watched, reported, tormented, put on long fasts !! If anyone who's still there sees this- it's TRUE !! you don't have to waste your life on pleasing toe-knee a-lame-oh, what good reward could there possibly be, at the close of your short life on earth ??!! get a life !!!!" |
raining
Junior Member
Username: raining
Post Number: 44
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 69.106.191.238
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 12:07 pm: |
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Hey Teeny Tiny Ton,
I'll bet you are crying like a little girl cuz factnet is still alive and doing well!!
I can just hear the rebuke this morning from Toadie A-lame-o (Tony Alamo). "You people, bunch of weasels and ol' devils, because of you God didn't answer my prayers to smite that devil "Factnet". There is sin in our camp and all the young girls are going to have to come in and confess their sins to me. God told me He was going to destroy factnet and all those who are paid by the vatican, the pope and the 1 world governement to post on that site. If you people would have been working, instead of being lazy and doing nothing then God would have honored my prayers"!
Tony - everyday more and more truths are posted about you! |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 31
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 12:08 pm: |
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Hey Tone,
I bet you's havin' a bad day!!!!
You had your hopes all up and you had your teeny tiny remnant of tony worshippers fastin' their guts out for Facnet to end. Now you will have a house meeting to blast/rebuke them to smithereens for not praying and fasting hard enough.
Peradventure your god sleepeth or perhaps is he on a journey?? Call him louder. Baal Baal, hear us and answer us.
Your filthy secrets are being shouted from the roof tops Tony A-lame-o just like the Lord said they would, no matter hard you pray against Facnet. The light is shining on your darkness, you little roach. Go back into the crack from whence you came.
(Message edited by anchored on July 05, 2007) |
phahrrrt_detector
New member
Username: phahrrrt_detector
Post Number: 16
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 85.234.144.215
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 12:14 pm: |
|
now datz wut
ah b tawkin bowt !
worm-can-opener
sho dew wish
we had da fundz
2 hyer a sky-rye-ter
n ryet dat n da sky
ohvr Ft Smith Fowke n Sawgus 2 !!!
luvin iht 2 da maxxxzzz
Phahrrrt detecter |
raining
Junior Member
Username: raining
Post Number: 45
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 69.106.191.238
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 12:18 pm: |
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I can just see Toni a-lam-o, that wicked little dwarf, prancing back and forth in his high heels, wringing his hands and foaming at the mouth when one of his under-age wives told him that factnet was still up and going!
I sure would hate to be living in his harem right now - poor soul who had to deliver the news that Factnet was ALIVE!
Toni A-lame-o doesn't believe in "Don't kill the messenger" That poor soul who had to deliver the news about factnet being ALIVE probably got beaten!
Somehow Tony always made all his failures and sins everybody else's fault!!!!
(Message edited by Raining on July 05, 2007) |
saved_21570
Junior Member
Username: saved_21570
Post Number: 39
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.134.158.20
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:25 pm: |
|
It's good to see rejoicing in the camp of the Lord!
It reminds me of how the Lord rebuked Sennacherib king of Assyria, and his lackey Rabshakeh.
"The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee. Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel." Isaiah 37:22,23
Praise the Lord. I suppose we will just have to keep exposing the "OLD BOY".
TA |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 9:19 pm: |
|
who would have ever guessed, all those years ago, that the weasel we would be pulling out, by its mangy tail, would be TOE-KNEE !!?? that he would be led, completely, by the "old boy" he so preached against ? how the tables have turned ! remember how he used to say; "shouldn't uh done dat, tate-un " ?? one thing is for sure, he shouldn't have done all those horrible things, along with his white-washed, holier-than-thou wife. |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 91
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.92.88
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 9:29 pm: |
|
Susie is a topic we don't all agree on.Some think she was annointed then fell away,some that she was faithful till the end and that it was all Tony, others that she was crooked from the start along with Tony.
I think most of us agree that Sue could have her very dark moments.
I think its really good we can differ on things and still be friendly,we've come a long way.
John |
wild_dream
New member
Username: wild_dream
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 76.172.220.122
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 9:34 pm: |
|
Amen, "whited sepulches", it must be the notoriety of being the "king's wife". Shame on you Sharon, sad, so sad. To stand by him through all his escapades, to quote a dylan song, "when somethings not right, it's wrong." |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 92
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.92.88
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 10:51 pm: |
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Oh,wait,you guys aren't talking about Susan are you?I can't get acustomed to the idea of him being with anyone but her.I know about the other wives in theory but it was not my experience because I left before all that garbage started(thank God).Sorry. |
wild_dream
New member
Username: wild_dream
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 76.172.220.122
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 11:52 pm: |
|
you're right, my mistake, worm can opener was talking about susan, not sharon, his present legal "wife". |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:49 am: |
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Susan Alamo is who I was referring to. First off, they claimed to have met one another in the cafeteria of a movie studio- that's "taurus poop" !! they met in a BAR !! Susan and Chris (her daughter) used to scam churches, and put on a big, phony show, to collect the offerings, and then run ! this was BEFORE the Alamo Foundation ever existed. Once the two of them got us out of Hollywood, into the mountain/desert area, totally x'ed off from prying eyes- they sent most of us to work in fields. We lived in mouse-infested houses, ate grocery store rejects, FINALLY got $1.00 a week (sometimes a $2 bill) we slept on the floors, in extremely cramped quarters, our natural families were referred to as satan, and we were encouraged NOT to see them. we were put on congregation fasts, schedules were made out, nightly, to dictate what we would be assigned to-the next day. If Susan Alamo didn't like you, you were ostracized, and put into what she called the "crash crew", which meant that you were an adult that was virtually babysat, 24/7, and made as miserable as was humanly possible. She also took children away from their parents, giving them to somebody else to raise. She also manufactured "congregation confessions" telling us, that if we hadn't of confessed, our blood would have been splattered all over the walls of the church (these confessions were for no other purpose, than to get as much dirt on us, individually, as she could) |
wilma
Junior Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 40
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 65.35.179.43
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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Worm_can_opener,
Could you tell us more specifically about the "crash crew"? Seems like I remember that BeckyL and Cynthia R were assigned to "ride herd" and oppress that large group of sisters who were being punished by Susan Alamo.
Also, can you tell us more details about the "barn days" and what it was like to be a MOTHER back in the Saugus early days.
thanks,
Susieg |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 32
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:15 pm: |
|
WCO
Welcome to Factnet!! Wow, so glad you made it aboard and are opening the can of worms (T&S Alamo) here on factnet now. I have really enjoyed reading your posts on Fouke Topixnet and am so glad you made it into this forum.
You have nailed it in your above post. That is truly the way it was. They exploited the gospel of Jesus Christ for their own personal gain and pleasures.
It is written down that that is their (T&S) legacy, the way they treated the body of believers that were there, most of whom were sincerely believing that they were serving the Lord and gave a 100% of themselves. We won't lose our blessings though because we did in unto our Lord Savior, Jesus Christ, and is who we will receive our blessings from.
Again, welcome to Factnet WCO. You are a breath of fresh air. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:17 pm: |
|
Now, why are we to think that the two of them were once so godly, may I ask ? Toe-knee did nothing but lie to us, and there she sat, right next to him, up on the pulpit, as he spoke of all the U.F.O.'s, all the movie stars he had been "rubbing elbows with", the millions he had made, his suppossed entourage of 19 people (taking his pulse, spraying perfume on him, putting a pillow on the sidewalk for him to step onto,etc.) ohhh, pul-leeeaasseee !!, saying he was Tony Alamo, the singer(when we heard him sing- that should have been one giant wake-up-call!!) well, to get back on track... they made up lies and excuses for every single thing they did, and owned. Common sense tells us that nobody NEEDS to have limos, large houses and mansions all over the country, be all decked out with diamonds and other gems, what kind of a person would see their congregation live in squallor, while they bought expensive dresses, furs, and luxury items galore ?? Looking back, especially to the time of the Sylmar Earthquake, I can not recall either one of them trying to help us, and improve our quality of life. We lived worse than BUMS, in case anyone out there has never heard, we had an epidemic of severe dysentery, after the earthquake, the remodeled BARN that the sisters lived in, was condemned, and around 40 of us (with babies and children) lived in one small building, we were throwing up, had high fevers, and the toilet had sewage, 4 inches above the toilet seat- we lived like ANIMALS !! and where were the "profits" ?? up on a hill, around 3 minutes away, totally unconcerned if we lived or died !! just wanted to clarify things, and put Tony and Susan in their proper perspective. Speaking only for myself- I was suspicious of them from day 1, and now, I pretty much see the total picture of the 21 yrs. I spent there. We were beguiled, stooged,maneuvered, lied to, hoodwinked, used and decieved. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:44 pm: |
|
well, Anchored and Wilma, see you were busy the same time as myself !! LOL I sure am more than glad to finally have gotten on!! p.o. box 398 was used to the hilt by the Lord, and I'm sure the reward will be great in the Kingdom for her perseverance, yesterday !!
I don't exactly know why, Gruesome, but if you were a mother back in 1971, on, you were really talked down to, like you weren't quite a human being (like Hitler's untermenchen) several of the sisters really seemed to get off on addressing us, in a very nasty tone of voice, as "YOU MOTHERS !!" it was like "all YOU MOTHERS !!, get your babies to the TABLE !!" like we were convicts, being addressed by the wardens. I remember one of them saying (V.L.) "you're always in the mother's favorite position, SITTING DOWN !!" Even Susan Alamo was said to have commented that the mothers who stayed, after the way they all were treated (as if SHE were oblivious-ha ha ) must have really wanted to serve the Lord ( I'll say amen to that ) |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 93
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.73.61
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:05 pm: |
|
WCO,
LOL,you shouldn't hold things inside so much,you should come out of your shell and speak your mind more.
I also was suspicious of both of them almost from the first day I was there.I used to have to fight the personal guilt feelings I harbored (I thought it was God's conviction),I thought I must be really listening to the Devil because not only did I suspect they were crooks,I found both of them very repulsive.I would get exhausted pleading the Blood so much over things like that.The Brothers and Sisters,for the most part,I loved very much (still do) and don't want to offend them.So again, anyone who doesn't share my opinions about T&S and their early days that is not even a little bit of a problem for me and I hope not for you either.
John m. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:10 pm: |
|
I remember the morning I was called to the phone, by Susan Alamo, and informed that I was being committed to the crash crew. I believe there were about 12 of us "messes" that were members. We had Cynthia as our main straw boss, and she played the part of gestapo with all gusto !! as if it were the making of an epic !! LOL. If Becky were one of the crash crew tormentors, I really can't recall. We did enough peeling of fruit and vegetables, back then, to feed all of Saugus. I eventually decided to just succumb to all of it, as if I couldn't care less. guess nobody knew how to really DEAL with my new attitude (or lack of one) tee hee !!Guess what it all boiled down to, was Susan was racking her brain to devise ANYTHING, upon the face of the earth, to get some of us messes to pack up and GO !!
I do believe with all my heart, that EVERY ONE of us have great rewards for YEARS spent, serving the Lord, and all the oppression added to it, just makes the rewards greater !!! being there taught us how NOT to treat others (although we did jump on many band-wagons against each other, because of twisted teachings and twisted scriptures-such a shame !)
hope I answered your questions, Gruesome. Love, Claudia |
no_stoppin_me
New member
Username: no_stoppin_me
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.242.140.218
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:34 pm: |
|
Since I was a kid in the cult, I can only offer my opinion as to why the "mothers" were treated so badly...but here goes.....
Since T&S knew that the ones who had children would be unable to go out and do physical work to make them more money, they were useless to them. They had no real value.
After a while, it didn't matter if you had kids or not - you went to "Bakes" to make $$$$. I remember as a little girl living with other families for months at a time when my parents were gone.
See, families didnt matter to T&S. That's why it was so easy to take children from their own parents and give them to some other family to live with. It happened all the time.
Just my opinion. |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 33
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:38 pm: |
|
Amen Claudia, and look who turned out to be the real messes. She (Susan) had her favorites and she gave them special privileges. I remember when she made a bunch of rules about the apartments near Soledad Canyon Rd. (What they called Saugus 8?? I guess) Whatever. Anyway, she said no sitting on the arms of chairs or sofas and no drinking coffee anywhere but in the little kitchens. I walked from the kitchen to the outdoors (crossing maybe 3 inches of the carpet to get out the door) and she kicked me out. As I was standing outside with my coffee looking back in at Susan Alamo sitting on the sofa, Ed Mick, one of her favs, was sitting on the arm of the sofa (breaking that rule that she had just made) right next to her with his arm around her and she never said a word to him. Also, caught in fornication at the Davenport house and never even reprimanded him (or her) in front of the congregation. Any of the rest of us would've been booted out immediately. So to Mrs. respecter of persons, it depended on who you were. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:06 pm: |
|
John,
yes, we all thought that we were recieving FALSE accusations, therefore we were always repenting and pleading the blood of Jesus. I know I was one of those, for sure. The love of God, and the love of the brethren were eliminated from the doctrine we were taught, to a large degree. We were instructed that REPORTING THEM was love (we were all compared to watch-dogs, do you remember ? "when you see some brother or sister transgress- BARK !" ) they pitted us one against another, and it was so wrong. And most of our differances could have been worked out so simply, by just addressing the problem as Christians, and reproving each other, out of love and concern for their soul. I heard so much back-biting and nastiness, that I know for sure that many people were seething with anger- it was (in my opinion) a vicious circle.BUT, have you noticed ??... Once Toe-Knee Alamo and all his "hate doctrine" gets extracted from a person's life- you then realize... I LOVE that person !!, I never seemed to look for the good in them at all. they were in their clique, and I was in mine- and the two groups could definately be opposed to each other. Now that Toe-Knee doesn't OWN us anymore, it's like that scripture in proverb; "Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease"
love, Can Opener |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 94
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.73.61
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:12 pm: |
|
NSM,
I heard Susan say just about that.She was talking about pregnant sisters "wanting to be pampered and thinking they don't have to do their fair share".She started with the pregnant sisters then moved on to mothers in general and how they had to be watched or they'd "sit around doing nothing all day".
Another time,a sister was getting kicked out by Susan in front of everyone,during services and she was hysterical,crying and saying "I'll go to Hell,I'll go to Hell".Susan said in the most cold blooded tone I'd ever heard "That's not my problem".I sometimes suppose she was so spiteful to the sisters because down in her depths she knew what Tony was about as far as that sort of thing goes. |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.73.61
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:32 pm: |
|
Ty Can Opener,
You made another really important point for me in your 3rd post. The Alamos lived in their vulgar,lavish lifestyle WHILE their supposed "flock"who the Bible says they should have been looking after were starving,cold and suffering from what was probably salmonella,amoebic dysentery or a combination of those and God knows what else. And this was because of poor food sources and sanitation which were curable simply by diverting just a fraction of the Foundation income to proper plumbing food handling equipment and instruction,medication and so on.The income was coming from the members who were suffering not the Alamos who were just parasites.But even still,if it were only that the Alamos enjoyed their lifestyle period that would be one thing.But they did so as the members(who they were responsible for by God's word)suffered as a derect result of being denied a few of the moneys they'd earned to ease the suffering of themselves and their little children.This was just in the seventies and early eighties,now look at the carnage!! |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:44 pm: |
|
John,
my last 3 posts were vaporized, just testing the waters, here Can Opener |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:45 pm: |
|
John,
my last 3 posts were vaporized, just testing the waters, here Can Opener |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 5:22 pm: |
|
Well, a couple of hours have gone by, so I'll get right in, and start up again.
Was looking up proverbs scriptures that apply to the perv- there were so many, that I wrote them down !! of course, the whole word of God is just STUFFED with more than we could easily count !! I remember Jim Griffin comparing the Bible to a "giant treasure book" so true ! |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:14 pm: |
|
Anchored-
hours ago, I had answered your post with a long-winded post, when I tried to do others, they also went into the twilight zone. so here goes. yes-there were fumas and beyond. once I heard that 3 top female fumas had been invited to go on a moonlight horse-back ride, up at Davenport rd. the rest of us were probably sitting on those milk-crates, with a 5 gallon vat of water and a sponge, cleaning the 11:00 p.m. pick-up of grocery store rejects !! LOL. there were surely second and third class (more like 3rd world) citizens !!
Can Opener |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:14 pm: |
|
Anchored-
hours ago, I had answered your post with a long-winded post, when I tried to do others, they also went into the twilight zone. so here goes. yes-there were fumas and beyond. once I heard that 3 top female fumas had been invited to go on a moonlight horse-back ride, up at Davenport rd. the rest of us were probably sitting on those milk-crates, with a 5 gallon vat of water and a sponge, cleaning the 11:00 p.m. pick-up of grocery store rejects !! LOL. there were surely second and third class (more like 3rd world) citizens !!
Can Opener |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 82
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:23 pm: |
|
Wow. Never heard of that. I guess I was just a "rank and file" brother. Don't remember getting invited on one of those horseback rides. However, I remember after one of those Newhall parades (you know, where we marched holding those crosses) It looked like I was stuck in Newhall after all the vehicles left full (without me). Susie pulled up in her car and told me and Jymme Cottrell to get in. T & S took us to lunch at tips resturant.
However I spent many hours sorting and peeling that produce. When I peel my potatoes, I am pretty good at it. |
smitty
Junior Member
Username: smitty
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 12:55 am: |
|
Once in a great while Tony or Sue would do something kind to a brother or sister. Just enough to keep fooling us into thinking they realy cared.... |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.73.61
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 9:39 am: |
|
Boy, just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside with gratitude.Tips Reseraunt you say?Gee, they sure were good to us,we didn't know how good we had it.It sure was true what they used to tell us about how unthankful we were.I even remember being treated to a cheese burger at the Pancake House in Holywood(along with about 150 other ingrates).Poor T&S that must have cost them a fortune! They probably had to give Rodeo Drive a miss one afternoon just to pay for it! You'll have to excuse me,I'm getting a little choked up right now.
The favored golden boys (and I guess girls too, didn't know about that)used to exercise those horses all the time.You had to be a very important superstar type to be an excercise boy for T&S' animals. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 12:13 pm: |
|
Modesto-
HOLY wood ?? must have been an antithesis, right ?? I very much enjoyed that post...yes, they sacrificed EVERYTHING, even lived in a "shack behind a shack" remember ?? oh,GAG !!Toe Knee actually did 2 things for me, of which I will be eternally indebted (1) moved Harald into the brothers' dorm, at the age of 14, so that a family could have our house in Dyer, which paved the way for his famous "bicycle escape", at age 16 !! (2) ushered me out of the "church" like a bird, a plane, a speeding bullet, because the U.S. Marshals had gotten inside info from the VATICAN, that that's where we lived- and we were a threat to Toe-Knee's tranquility. sure was NICE of ya, much obliged, "Mr. Pastor". |
razzor9
New member
Username: razzor9
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 69.233.88.219
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 12:40 pm: |
|
Way back in the early days,
Copied from worm can openner: I don't exactly know why, Gruesome, but if you were a mother back in 1971, on, you were really talked down to, like you weren't quite a human being (like Hitler's untermenchen) several of the sisters really seemed to get off on addressing us, in a very nasty tone of voice, as "YOU MOTHERS !!" it was like "all YOU MOTHERS !!,
Question ? The people who did the Alamo's cruel bidding, were they evil at the core ? |
wild_dream
New member
Username: wild_dream
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 76.172.220.122
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 12:58 pm: |
|
some were, are, to this day and need to repent. The Lord is merciful, faithful, long suffering, able to change a person, forgive, and forget, if we just seek him and worship him in sincerety and truth. He can save and he can heal, amen. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 4:07 pm: |
|
Razzor9
That's a tough one.one of them DIED,( and was only 13 years old, and had just been "polly-parroting" the older ones,anyway, so big deal) another one was the "chief fuma", and didn't even live there (foundation) constantly lorded over the rest of us, with meetings, rebukes, orders and "bad news about ourselves from Susan", some just up and left, and who knows where they are, or what they're doing ? some are even in the midst of the Boa Constrictor's snake pit, still !!with the exception of a few, who are still residing in the snake-pit (let's try to stay in reality, here),I would like to think that everyone who participated is sorry, and that they know, looking back, that they were very mean "to have gone along with the program", and wish they had had the guts to have thought for themselves,instead. Like the old saying goes, "it will all come out in the wash" I, personally, forgive every one of them, that wasn't the worst thing that I ever went through, to be addressed, in a hateful tone of voice,by several people, as "YOU MOTHERS !!" and it was 36 years ago, I certainly have never given it much thought, really ! Can Opener |
jackrussell
Junior Member
Username: jackrussell
Post Number: 30
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 24.73.22.232
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 8:23 pm: |
|
Any regrets! I have some, as concerning myself, one being that when the Lord allowed me to become disturbed enough to leave early, in the 70's just before bakes, I did not receive the full instruction. I left the foundation, but the foundational heresy did not leave me till many years later. I was a closet supporter, and distant follower with visitng rights in the late 70's and again until 1984. For me that was how far reaching the deception had become. I thought it was more about my own shortcomings as why I couldn't really make the 'cut' than the wrongness that the foundation 'system' actually was. My regrets are that I did not initially see clearly enough(was seeing thru the glass much too darkly) when I left, to be an activist and mobilize any legit powers that were and strive to overturn the 'thing' that the foundation had already become a long time ago. But, now by the power of the sword, which are righteous words delivered by the testimony of two or more witnesses, action will be taken and the sandy foundation walls will come tumbling down just like Jericho. It is inevitable!....Moreso even, than the grave law of gravity. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 9:08 pm: |
|
Jack,
very interesting. I know that what kept me, was that when I got saved, and everything became new, I really was so full of zeal, that all the other things didn't much have any bearing. I was sick and tired of all the games, by the time I came to the church. I had always wanted to have a purpose, a real reason for living, and the foundation seemed to be the magic answer to all the questions I had ever had. The Bible was finally understandable, and I wanted to read and read, finding so many little and big "secrets of the universe"!!! I loved the idea of being in a large family, with all those brothers and sisters. I liked being able to use scriptures I had learned, in witnessing on the streets of Hollywood, and nothing compared to someone saying "hey, you know...you witnessed to me on Hollywood Blvd.!" funny, the prayer-room really stunk, from so many sweaty people, but we just paid no attention, and prayed so hard for a revival, and so many things. When I moved in, one week after I got saved, I left most of my worldly possessions behind. there was dope on my mantle, and it looked so foreign !! I brought only one book, from my shelf-a Bible, and one album, from a huge collection- a Brahms album. I gave tons of new dresses to Patty (my O.C.) to wear as tops !! LOL !! EVERYTHING had become new, so I just put up with everything else, as it came along. Nothing could ever make me sorry to have gotten saved- it's just too bad that T&S had such an evil agenda up their sleeves, for "the Hollywood hippies". I have extremely fond memories of those first days of eternal life !!! always will.
Claudia |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 97
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.116.122
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 9:12 pm: |
|
There were people who did really cruel Satanic things to people in the Foundation often when the people were helpless,hurting and could most have used a helping hand.Instead,they were slapped repeatedly (only emotionally at first,but,I'm told physically, starting in the nineties)by the "older responsible brothers and sisters" who had a "stronger walk with God" than the victims.I had a great deal of illfeeling (hatred even) for some of those people.Once Johnny W. was cheerfully saying "-----'s my friend now,he's being cordial and nice to me".I told him He's not your friend ,he's got something up his sleeve and he'll spill your guts to the ground when you least expect it.He said "oh no I can tell he's really sincere"I was right and Johnny suffered terribly at his hand.I saw this kind of thing repeatedly from more perpetrators than I care to think about.
I have to temper this by remembering that people in the Nazi death camps, and prisoner of war camps those sorts of places used to sometimes tell on each other,steal from each other,do other really rotten things to the other prisoners.This sort of behavior is well studied and documented by many historians,psychiatrists and psychologists.It's a way some people react to that sort of stressful situation and they don't tend to behave that way once they are free from it.I think that explains the behavior of the majority of the cruel "overseers".I don't think they were "evil at the core" at all.Tony and Susan, on the other hand, did these things while living in luxury,no excuse for them,just evil in my book. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:21 pm: |
|
John,
I'm not sure what year you left the church, but I know that the first abuse I heard about, was "being smitten". Tony always mentioned, in house meetings, over at the Spec house, or wherever, that he expected the older brothers to stick up for him. There was some incident, where Bob Miller was (in Tony's words) standing toe to toe with him, while a couple of the "heavies", a few feet away, just watched- this vexed Tony to the hilt (because he depended on being protected, what could the little sissy do, if nobody came to his rescue ?) from what I heard, down through the years, Tony always checked up on the faithfulness of the heavies, by calling them over to any kind of threatening situation, and WOE unto the ones who were indifferent, when the boss was demanding protection !! I was ALWAYS careful not to defend myself, or contradict the perv. I had heard about other SISTERS, who had been smitten, even a pregnant sister (still there, in the org.) from what I heard, she was hit-full force by at least one sister. This was the biggest control tactic the perv had "being smitten". I have always wanted to remain in one piece, without having my teeth knocked out, or my head bashed in. In one situation in L.A., I looked around the room (#7) at my 7 or 8 accusers, and even though they were really making me look like I was rebelling against the orders Tony had given me, I just ate my humble pie- and shut up and took it. I knew, as I checked out exactly WHO was in that room, that Tony would give the green light, if I tried to justify myself- and the crew that was there would have lined up to smite me, at the "drop of an elevator boot" those "spankings" given to children and adults, started around 1985- and it was the PERV who ordered them. The brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers HAD to go along with it...or they were NEXT !! This is how Tony aquired TOTAL CONTROL over the congregation- through satanic fear, not really of him, at all, but the power he had over others- to gang up on a person and do whatever Tony said. Looking back, I believe in my heart that MOST of the congregation were sincere, but Tony had (and has) some of them under his total control, they esteemed his WORD higher than God's, Tony's WILL higher than God's will...Tony BECAME their God, he took God's place in their hearts, they FEAR Tony ,instead of God, and definately want to PLEASE Tony more than God . The chains they have around their hearts are real, and some have been in that state for almost 40 years- only prayer will get them out of his clutches. Just like the prisoners of war that you mentioned- IF they break away-there's all the hope in the world ! |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:44 pm: |
|
also, as far as the really mean ones, just look at it this way...a lot of them hated being in the foundation, but were in a no-win situation; If they left, they were sure that the "raging monster in the heavens" would be stoking up the flames of hell, where they were SURELY GOING, to have left the foundation !! so, what did they do ? lash out at the most lowly esteemed,or the most vulnerable, because they could get away with it- nobody would care, really. the "God is hate/God is vengeance" doctrine reigned. We weren't taught to love one another- but to report one another. with Tony and Susan being our examples- how many were really going to be all that nice ?? but some certainly were very good testimonies, in spite of it all. some were patient, kind, and thoughtful, wanting to spend their time reading and teaching, etc. and we may as well tell the rest of the story- some were out and out DEVILS. |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.116.122
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:47 pm: |
|
Thanks Claudia,
I left in 1978 so obviously I missed out on alot and I try only to speak about things I had personal knowledge through direct experience of. 1985,WOW, the smiting thing was going on for a while!!
LOL, I almost would have joined the Foundation again and moved in to one of the brother's dorms if I could just have seen Tony "going toe to toe" with Bob Miller(God rest him)!Guess who my money would have been on(if I were a gambler of course).I'll bet Tony's elevator boots got a bit squishy squashy when he walked away from that one!! ROFL. |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 83
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 12:25 am: |
|
Looking back I think I have some good memories of the foundation. However, When the "smiting" bros and sisters doctrine arrived in 1989 I knew in my heart I had to "draw the line" so to speak. There was a showdown between me and tony in 1989. Tony started talking smiting. I didn't say anything but, I knew absolutely positively I would be "smiting back" especially if it was tone. I had it all planned as soon as he raised his arm I would be "smiter" LOL. Unfortunetely, I was given a ride instead and did not get my "smiter" chance. I think tone realized I wasn't going to go along with the smiting doctrine, even though I did not say so. I don't know but, I think "smiting back" would have been a sensation. Just curious did anyone every hear or see someone "smite back"? |
saved_21570
Junior Member
Username: saved_21570
Post Number: 41
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.163.171.192
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 12:58 am: |
|
Jack,
I wouldn't regret not seeing the deception early. Many times (even with Lucifer himself) God has to allow sin to ripen. He is longsuffering even to vessals of destruction.
When his fierce and sudden judgement comes there will be no doubt that God is just, and that his Word is true. |
jackrussell
Junior Member
Username: jackrussell
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 24.73.22.232
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 1:23 am: |
|
WCO,
Don't misunderstand, the born again experience that I received there(in spite of the already burgeoning heresy and hypocrisy led by T&S) is always second to none, along with almost surreal sincerity and fellowship with some brethren that was literally out of this world. As the months and years went on I became disturbed as I began to notice that the best laid(spiritual) plans, painstaking prayers, etc seemed to be thwarted for some reason and soulwinning had greatly diminished as we were headed toward bakes. I could not put my finger on it and was in denial about most T&S wronggoing that I saw, but became too disturbed to stay, with the litany of unsolved mysteries and unanswered prayers. But thought to accept responsibility as my own fault(which some was) since I could not then explain all the rest. Much has been answered as the time has passed, especially more recently.
One fantastic experience that I want to share, and a reason I have made an extensive study about 'time' thru the years is round about late '71 bro Jim Hunt had a terrible accident while fulfilling his duties as a late nite mechanic and was terribly burned. One of those things where I thought it could not have happened to a nicer guy, and it really irked me. T&S started a 2 hour prayer chain for Jim (one of the right things they did). I was on nitewatch to midnite or so, and my 2 hour bit was 2-4am. After an hour or so of some unrelaxed shuteye I was awoken feeling dead tired, and a bit cranky as usual. In spite of this, I purposed in my heart to make the prayertime of the utmost quality and not just go thru the motions trying to stay awake. Jim Hunt was and is one of the good guys. I did not know how this qualty praying could be accomplished, after so many failed attempts, in the past, under the same circumstances, but I was purposed in the positive. No sooner did I enter the prayer room at Saugus 1 that an anointing came over me that was time transcendant. For the next 2 hours tongues just rolled out like butter consistently with such symmetry. I laid down on a bench in there and prayed the full 2 hours, and could not of fallen asleep if you paid me, and why would I even want to! I felt my body as very exhausted but I was not all there and my consciousness was somewhat out of body and very vivid. And time? The 2 hours seemed to go by as if it was a few minutes, but I could remember every second of it. It was a real pleasure praying like that! |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.116.122
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:49 am: |
|
Saved,
In Islam there is a similar teaching that on Judgement Day all the sinners will admit their sentence is just as they are thrown in to Hell.
Just this morning I remembered the terror I and I'm sure many others used to feel when Tony would scream "MERCY MERCY MERCY" as he described the "mannequin" like people all throwing themselves against the sides of the burning pit again and again,and how the woman having this vision said she would have gouged her own beloved Mother's eyes out with the pumps she was wearing to get out of that place.Who is the real God and who is the "raging monster in the heavens" WCO mentions? I'm not sure they are actually the same guy.
I know there is scriptural backing for the idea of vessels of wrath and destruction and the Calvanist notion of "T.U.L.I.P." with it's "done deal" sort of outlook towards people's eternal fate(I'm no expert on John Calvin and don't wish to offend but this is a widely held view of his theology and I would welcome correction if available).But I think it is possible we are still in the grips of those terrifying images burned in to our young impressionable minds while we were weakened and even more vulnerable than average young people by the Alamos.I wonder if we aren't just still victims of wrong view about certain aspects of Christianity.Just a thought.I don't know how many Brothers and Sisters nearly flipped out in there agonizing about and wondering if they were "a vessel of wrath who's sins were being allowed to ripen until they would be 'destroyed suddenly and that without remedy' then be dragged to the Throne, condemned to the Pits, then admit their sentence was just as they were cast into the Lake of Fire".
I'm not saying there's no Hell or Judgement,it seems reasonable and scriptural that there would be consequences for deeds on earth.I'm suggesting that we may be still influenced by Foundation thinking to our harm and we should try to think out of that "box" a bit. |
worm_can_opener
New member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 10:56 am: |
|
John,
guess I better clarify something, real quick. I by no means meant God = Godzilla. The Boa Constrictor and venomous rattler PRESENTED God that way, is all I was saying, and many people hated being there, with a purple passion, but had been brainwashed into the "God is hate doctrine" for years and years. Do you remember how the "God is love heretics " were MOCKED, from the pulpit ?, do you remember them saying that two thirds of the Bible are WRATH scriptures ? well, I don't believe that anyone should take ALL the LOVE scriptures, and make a whole religion out of them, or take ALL the WRATH scriptures and make one out of them, either. The point I was making, is that some people really wanted out, but HOW could that ever happen, if they were completely convinced that they were going to be cursed by God, tormented for the remainder of their life, then cast into hell ?? it was probably the ultimate "catch 22" that ever was. That fence around # 2 wasn't keeping anyone there- it was the false doctrine from the vipers, which taught "this is the only real church' "we are the only true Christians on earth" "we are the only ones out on the streets, witnessing " "we are the only ones going to heaven" and then, long after Susan died, Tony likened leaving the church with blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (that we had seen so many movings of the Spirit and miracles, etc. that it COULD be blasphemy) for all we know, the very ones who are gathered around his couch right this minute, totally believe just that- who can know ?? SOME pretty satanic thoughts keep them there, wasting their lives. |
saved_21570
Junior Member
Username: saved_21570
Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.163.171.192
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 11:25 am: |
|
John,
I understand where you are coming from. I wish that I had more time right now to get into it. It is some of the great mysteries of God. How do we have free will (which we do), and at the same time all things are predestined (which they are)?
With us this seems contradictory, yet they are both eternal truths.
Then again, how is it, that with God even the future is the same as the past in his knowledge?
Wonderful things to ponder and meditate.
I do know this. If anyone wants to be chosen by God, then simply chose him, and it will be done.
Tom |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 6:37 pm: |
|
A couple things come to mind. After I was out of the outfit I attended a few churches. I was at "Church on the Way" for a couple years. I remember Jack Hayford said, "I will never manipulate anyone with guilt." Hmmm manipulate with guilt, where have I seen that done? At another church I met a former foundation member. He told me, "God wants you to be happy." At first this statement seemed slightly foriegn to me. Didn't God want me to do his will? Does God care if I am happy as long as I am doing his will? Can I avoid hell and still be happy? Well, I realized at the foundation that pleasing God was really not that difficult. Pleasing tony? Wellll now we have a problem. Now there are folks in the foundation that tony is well pleased with but, maybe God isn't pleased with them. So, the choice I made is to make sure God is pleased and that makes me happy. Forget tony. |
modesto
Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.93.92
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:48 am: |
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Can Opener,
I didn't think you said God=Godzilla at all,I took your statements just as you explained in your last post. I certainly would not think you in particular would actually be referring to who you thought to be the real God as "the raging monster in the heavens". I thought it was clever imagery and wanted to incorporate it in to my writing while being careful not to plagiarize and making sure I quoted you properly,that's all.(lol,,,"God=Godzilla")
Tom,
Since I left the Foundation I've tried to familiarize myself with a wide variety of religious and philosophical thought from around the world so I could at least speak intelligently with people about them.I've developed a great deal of respect for mysticism and the mystics of all the major religions not because I necessarily agree with thier beliefs but because they are the ones who seem to be able to communicate and get along with each other and seem to have a common thread.Suffis/Dervishes(Islamic mystics)can often understand and accord with even Jewish mystics(Kabalists) if they are allowed out from under the thumb of their various societies.The purely mystical religions such as Buddhism are inherantly tolerant and able to accord with other religions and ideas (although some of the mainly Buddhist societies have been very poor Buddhist examples in the past).Anyway,seemingly contradictory concepts/ideas described as "yet they are both eternal truths" or "with God even the future is the same as the past in his knowledge" are perfect examples of Christian mystical thought just as is the more famous example of the "Trinity" which holds that all three Persons are one and three at the same time.One of the big problems I have with these kinds of ideas is that they lend themselves well to statements of fact being used to convince people of things then when the speaker is asked to explain, they allow him/her to simply say "it's a mystery,it's simply paradoxical-part of the great mystery so I can't explain I just know what I mean" and remain impervious to argument.Try to argue with the Eastern religious idea "God neither is nor is not but transcends the necessity for existence or non existence". I hope that ,if you are able ,you can one day take the time to explain how you feel one can be predestined to salvation or damnation yet have a choice about it(I've heard the one about how God in His omnipotence simply knows the future so even though he wants everyone to be saved he just knows those who won't and it doesn't work for me at all).I hope I'm not being to arguementative here but these questions are very important,I think ,to all of us and germane to comming to grips with the strangle hold the Foundation/Alamo induced thinking had on all of us.
In fairness I guess I should admit that modern physicists could be considered "mystics" too.
John |
bystander
New member
Username: bystander
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.171.211.31
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 12:39 am: |
|
Modesto,
I am not Tom but if you will indulge me I would like to give my humble opinion regarding how we are predestined and yet have free will.
Our all powerful, everywhere present, all knowing God knew before he ever breathed life into Adam that man was going to need a redeemer. Why? Because God was going to give man the freedom to make his/her own choices and many or rather most of His creation would make the wrong choices. Your Bible says before the foundation of the world He (God) prepared a Lamb for sacrifice. Because He is the Alpha and the Omega, He knows the beginning from the end. He knew before he made us who would accept His priceless gift and who would not. He did not predetermine our decision, He predetermined what He would do about our decision. He predetermined that He would make us heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
Looking down through the portals of time He knew you would accept Him...so when you appeared on the scene and the time was right, He sent His precious Holy Spirit to speak conviction to your heart and sure enough you received Him. He wrote your name in the Lamb's Book of Life. There are predetermined riches and rewards laid up for you because you made the choice to receive Him. Your choice...not His dictation.
The absolute beauty of grace and mercy is that He offers it to all...even those He already knew would never accept. He pours out mercy and grace for whosoever will. His mercies are new every morning. There is no other word for grace but amazing.
Oh the love that drew salvation's plan. Oh the grace that brought it down to man. Oh the mighty gulf that God did span at Calvary. |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 34
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 7:29 am: |
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Bystander
Thank you. So beautifully said. This is how I have seen it from the scriptures. God made all of us (his whole creation) as free moral agents with the same measure of faith, the same ability to accept or reject his marvellous gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Of course, since he, only, knows the beginning from the end, he looked out into the future and saw those that would accept and those that would reject. To be fair and kind and merciful as he truly is, he let it all play out, the ones that would accept and those that would not accept his marvellous grace and mercy.
He deals with everyone's heart according to that measure of faith that he gave every human being that he ever created. He let them all grow up together, the wheat and the tares. A good description is stated in Matthew 13:25, the parable speaking of the wheat and the tares in the field (world). "Let both grow until the harvest; and in the time of harvest, I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
He knew from the beginning the wheat and he knew the tares, (predestined, because he knew who would and wouldn't accept the precious gift), but chose to let it all play out, giving everyone a fair chance.
This is the great mercy, longsuffering and patience of the Lord.
This is the way I see it, but am sure willing to learn more from others. That is what is so great about sharing with each other what the Spirit has shown us.
Thanks for sharing Bystander. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.93.92
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 7:50 am: |
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Bystander and Anchored,
Thanks to both of you for taking the time to give your veiws on what for me is a very difficult question.
John |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 102
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.93.92
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 8:06 am: |
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I should clarify my meaning when I use the word "argue".I don't intend to mean "contentiousness" or something negative like that.By "argue" I intended the free comparing and contrasting of ideas with the goal being the enrichment and stronger understanding of all envolved.Maybe "dialectic" would have been a better word. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 11:57 am: |
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I so much enjoyed your above posts (have been reading and re-reading) it sure does make me wonder... what if we had had a totally opposite senario ? Had all come to the church, when the Spirit had called us, BUT...there had been a totally Spirit-filled pastor, instead, bursting with all the fruits, where each and every one of us would have been as a glistering, precious gem in his eyes,where the doctrine would have been sound, directing the worship, to where it belonged-to the LORD, and him only. Where the pastor esteemed his flock as worthy of care, consideration, patience, long-suffering and love. just some thoughts to ponder. Can Opener |
saved_21570
Junior Member
Username: saved_21570
Post Number: 44
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.133.179.4
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
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Bystander and Anchored,
What wonderful posts!
worm_can_opener,
I have pondered that one also. I don't know why the Almighty allows some wicked men to do what they do, but I do know this; Even this is for Gods glory, and our good, if we lean on Him and trust in his everlasting arms. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 103
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.83.199
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:10 pm: |
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Can opener,
You said in your last post regarding the dream pastor who might have been,who you describe as valuing us and "where the doctrine would be sound".I certainly see how we were not valued by the Alamos,I don't, however, see much substantial difference in the doctrine they gave when I was there and that espoused by many if not most of the ex members who post here,which gives me the impression they feel the Alamos doctrine must have been sound. |
razzor9
New member
Username: razzor9
Post Number: 9
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 69.233.88.219
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:25 pm: |
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modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 103
Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:10 pm:
Alamos doctrine ??? SOUND ???
NEVER, EVER IN MY BOOKS, OR EYES, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
alamo's were just users of what ever they could use |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 104
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.83.199
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:32 pm: |
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I didn't say Alamo's doctrine was sound,rather that many if not most of the posters who have spoken about their doctrine on this site seem not to differ much if at all from the Alamos which leads me to conclude they think it was sound.Further, I was talking about the doctrine of the Foundation/Alamo's as presented in the 70's not now. |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 72.152.77.218
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 7:47 pm: |
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From what I've read here, most of those posting still hold to a form of the doctrine espoused by the Alameos. I hope that's because they have examined their beliefs and decided what they believe is right, and not because they are still being blindly led 40 years after the fact. I will never be led blindly again. Nor will I be coerced by a doctrine of fear. That is what the Taliban does. Let me seek with eyes wide open. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 28
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 8:40 pm: |
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Modesto- This answer is strictly my own overall perception of the doctrine we were taught, after much thought and prayer, and lining up the "way that it was" with the"way it should or could have been."
Well, let's go back, then, to 1970. Did we really have to move into a church, and live there,in squallor, in order to serve the Lord ? Did Tony and Susan have to keep all of us in fear of "being in trouble with them ?" did we have to constantly hear Tony's "mercy ! mercy !, eye-gouging- message", or about Frenchy getting his heart blown out of his chest, because he wouldn't join the ALAMO CHURCH (who,according to Tony, more than likely went to hell) they even implied that Jayne Mansfield met her fate (decapitation in her convertible Cadillac) because she didn't listen to Tony and Susan. Was it a right thing, that we were not allowed to even go to stores,all by our selves, in our 20's and 30's,(was it for fear that we would escape ?... YES, it WAS !!) or have any kind of freedom, whatsoever ?( we only had the "freedom" to do as Tony and Susan said...period) slavery ended Jan. 1, 1863, did we really have to be sent to hoe cotton,like the field-hands of "Gone with the wind", and get all torn up from lopping roses ?(not ONCE was anyone allowed to get a dignified, respectable job, doing what they were good at, where they could have PROSPERED, instead) isn't fasting suppossed to basically be from our own conviction,and from our hearts ?around 1992, it seemed that one involuntary 5 day fast after the other had become the norm (starve them into obedience ?) is it sound doctrine to put down all the other churches, saying we were (and are) the only true Christians, right here in this group of people (when the church is actually "the body of Christ", and certainly there were and are Bible believing Christians, all over the world) guess that even back then, Tony's all-seeing- eyes roamed the earth, seeing through people's walls, seeing all that every person is up to, knowing their hearts and thoughts (he was JUDGING every Christian on earth as an imposter) Was it right, when our unsaved former friends came to see us, that a babysitter had to be appointed, and be right there with us, through the whole visit ? were 3 hour long services really necessary, EVERY SINGLE NIGHT,for YEARS ? was it really such sound doctrine, to have families split up, so that children were raised in nurseries, instead of by their own mothers, who were put ANYWHERE, but their own homes; the restaurant, stores, sewing rooms, jacket-production, etc. Does it say, anywhere in the Bible, that your parents are to be virtually forgotten, left behind,called "devils",treated with suspicion, and that your pastor then becomes your "spiritual parent", as far as REPLACING the former ? was it sound doctrine for children to be hidden for months and even years from a parent who had decided the Alamo Church was not the future they wanted, for themselves, or the child, and got up and left ? the doctrine was not sound, because of these type of spiritually unhealthy rules, regulations, dominating and control. It's like you have this big, mouth-watering Thanksgiving dinner. You have the turkey, mashed potatoes, gravy, cranberry sauce, stuffing, salad and pies. then someone comes along and puts 1 drop of cyanide into it. Is it still esteemed a delicious, nourishing Thanksgiving dinner ? |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 87
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:47 pm: |
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Good points there wormcanopener. Let's take that issue of good paying jobs (careers?). I believe anyone that could make a good living would leave the foundation quickly. Say for instance Steve Pini and Mike Stoekel. They became good printers and left. Steve Kureki left knowing he could make money at roofing. He was a roofer prior to his foundation experience. The numerous carpenters and electricians. Paul Bolpa could do just about anything he wanted and make a good living. I am really surprised he still lives there. Speaking of which I don't think any of the "old timers" there, really have a trade or profession to fall back on. That is probably why they are there. However, it is never too late to start something up. Anybody that had any type of marketable skill left. I don't know if that tells you anything. I remember a few years back, I would see an "old timer" from time to time. He would ask me if I was going back to the foundation (even though he was out). I would say something like; "I know in the Bible it says a person would receive blessings in heaven and on earth for serving God. Now, what blessings on this side of eternity would I receive by living at the foundation?" Of course this was a real stumper question. The old timer really had no answer on that one.
I think there are gospel outfits that encourage "living there". However, after you get a good handle on Christianity they encourage you to leave and get something going on your own. After that join a church. Not this deal where you stay there for 30 years. |
razzor9
New member
Username: razzor9
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 69.233.88.219
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:05 am: |
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Modesto. Sorry, if I was not clear. I was making a point stating that I as an X member, do not believe the alamo doctine was or is sound in any way shape or form, then or now. And I do not think you were saying that it was sound either. |
razzor9
New member
Username: razzor9
Post Number: 11
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 69.233.88.219
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:14 am: |
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brother_d
Glad to see you are back and posting again. I agree with you...re: some of the posters and the beliefs |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 35
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 6:15 am: |
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Modesto
You said:
"I didn't say Alamo's doctrine was sound, rather that many if not most of the posters who have spoken about their doctrine on this site seem not to differ much if at all from the Alamos."
That seems like such a blanket statement. I'm just curious, could you be a little more specific? Please give some examples.
Can opener has written a great post (about four posts up) perfectly describing the doctrine of the A-lame-os, stating many great examples, etc. I just don't see any of the posters here agreeing with any of that insane doctrine. I don't think under "normal circumstances" they would have ever agreed with any of it back then either. Most all the posters here have clearly stated many times they stayed there because they were coerced through fear tactics by the A-lame-os. Once their eyes were fully opened, they got the heck out of Dodge.
You said, "most of the posters who have spoken about their doctrine on this site seem not to differ much if at all from the Alamos which leads me to conclude they think it was sound."
Just curious, what doctrine would that be? Try and be specific please. Trust me, I'm not being coy here I'm sincerely wondering what specific doctrine/s you are referring to.
Thanks, anchored. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.83.199
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 8:09 am: |
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Anchored,
I guess it could be characterised as "ultra conservative Christian Fundamentalism".All of the examples given in Can Opener's last post are not examples of what I would call "doctrine" at all,rather,they were some of the ways the Alamos used "the doctrine" to mislead and take advantage of us but not themselves "the doctrine".Certainly,when the posters had finally had more than they could stand they got out of Dodge but,it seems to me,retained most if not all of the core religious beliefs from the Foundation(I know many object to the term "religious" but it's the best most descriptive term I can think of").These core beliefs are what I think of as doctrine.
In Utah and other places,there are Mormon sects who share essentially the same core doctrine yet some practice polygamy and others don't,some demand utter and complete loyalty and adherance to the group and appear "cultic" and others don't yet they share the same core "doctrine", yet the application of the doctrine is very different.The Alamo's doctrine,as I use the term, was very similar to that found it conservative Pentacostal or Four Square Gospel Churches.I'm not sure giving specific examples of the the doctrines would help clarify things they would have to be very numerous to be helpful, I think everyone knows approximately what the core beliefs or doctrines of these churches are.I'll give specific examples to specific questions if you wish though.
You seem to object to overbroad characterizations and "blanket statements" which I sympathize with,I do too, of course people differ one from another even among those who could be called "ultra conservative Christian Fundamentalists".This term is the best concept I can think of to describe what I mean and I use it knowing it is flawed and can't capture the whole truth just approximate it.I'll be happy to clarify my meaning more if you wish please just ask.I have to take my daughter to the airport right now but I'll be back this evening(Lord willing).I hope I've been properly responsive to your questions.
John |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 88
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:38 am: |
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I think what Modesto mentioned is really the key here. Specifically the "core beliefs". This is what could be considered sound doctrine. This sound doctrine can be preached or taught by anyone even t&s. Let me give you an example. Years ago I met this guy that was into the Bible, hard work, and basically a good testimony. I asked him how he had received Christ. He told me he had gotten saved through Jim and Tammy Bakker's ministry. This always brought on some snickers but, he said that is how he originally heard about the gospel and made no apologies. Later, he was hired as a police officer LAPD. Within a few years he was promoted to sergeant (pacific division). I am sure this guy will go far and he isn't shy about sharing his testmony when the opportunity arises. So, regardless of where (or even who) the gospel is preached, Jesus is glorified. However, as has been mentioned many times on this board, none of us agree with what tony alamo is into now. Also, I don't think the folks at the foundation now, really agree with tony. I think most of them are an intelligent bunch and will soon be saying "adios" to the foundation and what it "currently" stands for. |
no_stoppin_me
New member
Username: no_stoppin_me
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.242.140.218
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 11:42 am: |
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Obviously they are not an "intelligent bunch", otherwise they would not be sitting around watching, knowing & defending what Tony is doing!! |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 36
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 2:30 pm: |
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Thanks John and Brother d
I also will never again be coerced by a doctrine of fear, hellfire, condemnation, in other words, the total wrath side of God. That was 90% of the A-lame-o's doctrine. There is another side of God also and it's His lovingkindness, compassion, tender mercies, longsuffering, patience which we heard very little about from the A-lame-o's lips. And then further, they used it as a controlling, manipulating, exploiting and abusing technique to fleece the flock for finances and, in the process, worked people to the point of total exhaustion and discouragment, while they controlled every aspect of our lives every second of the day and night all those years.
I'm still thinking that "most of the posters here" (as you both have stated) are not still on that doctrine. There may be a few that are still having some trouble shaking off that doctrine. Most though, I think, have been shown by God that he has a loving side too and that He cares about our every need, our happiness and our prosperity and have gone on to live happy, successful lives. The healing is still taking place with some but I think most have been shown that He wants us to enjoy life while we are serving Him. Unlike life under the Alameos, being frustrated, discouraged in turmoil most of the time totally under the control and dictates of tyrants. Even God, himself, has stated that it is not grievous to serve Him, and we all know how grievous it was most of the time at that joint. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 29
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 3:38 pm: |
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Modesto, "peace to you and yours"!! I didn't even know you had a daughter !! that's great !!)hope all your family are fine. well, once again, I will try to explain what I was previously trying very hard to explain. What I have come up with is just a general outline of what I define to be "Ultra Conservative Christian fundamentalism" ;(1) basing one's whole life on the scriptures (2) being saved, baptized in water and baptized with the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues (3) keeping every commandment (4) witnessing (5) not forsaking the assembling of one's self with the saints (services, meetings, prayer-meetings) (6) listening to, and singing "conservative hymns and songs, spirituals, and old-time-religion- type- songs" (7)doing the works of Christ (8) praying and fasting (9) being a good testimony to everyone, at all times (10) not being as the heathen, but set-apart through righteousness (11) fellowshipping with the saints (12) seeking holiness, in conversation, dress, etc. (a few examples) are you tracking with me, so far ?? I hope. Now- doctrine is teachings of the truths of the Bible- sound doctrine would therefore be something right straight from the word of God, not twisted, or adulterated, just the pure word, without man's interpretation, from some puffed up windbag, RIGHT ? from the time I came to the foundation, those things mentioned above, SEEMED to be there, as time progressed, things became more and more cultish. Please let me give you a few examples of unsound doctrine, preached right over the pulpit, by Tony; Jesus was burning in hell, from the time of his death, to the moment of his resurrection- false doctrine, not written in God's word. The very people who yelled "Hosanna in the highest", when Jesus was on his way to Jeruslem, were the very people who crucified him- false doctrine, not from God's word. One of the brothers (can't remember his name, we called him fire-head, because of his red hair) once said ;(concerning Toe-Knee) " when I get married, that monkey better build me a house" Tony said he came close to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost- not true! All seizures come from demons- false doctrine- brain injuries and accidents are also a cause. People who have seizures need to have the devil beat out of them-false doctrine- Jesus cast them out with his WORD ! One of the 2 witnesses will be a woman, that way all people will know that person isn't the anti-Christ-false doctrine-the Bible doesn't say that. there was false doctrine preached by the Alamo's, which was a poison to all the suppossed fundamental Christianity that we had been taught. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 30
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.161.237
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 4:17 pm: |
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But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit FORNICATION. Rev.2:14. Balaam's doctrine/ Tony's doctrine. And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit WHOREDOM with the daughters of Moab (Tony is commiting whoredom) and they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. The story goes on to tell of a man of Israel, named Zimri, and a woman of Midian, named Cozbi, who went into a tent to commit fornication, and how a very Godly man named Phinehas took a javelin, and made a "human shish-kabob" out of those two wicked people !! A plague that had killed 24,000 people of Israel was then cancelled, because of Phinehas, executing righteous judgement upon the FORNICATORS who wanted to serve Baalpeor, instead of God. Phinehas turned away God's wrath, then God gave him a covenant of peace, his children after him would inherit that covenant, and he would have an everlasting priesthood, due to his zeal for God, and he also made an atonement for the children of Israel. Num. 25:1,2. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 31
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 69.148.196.139
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 8:13 pm: |
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when we first came to the church, all we knew was what we were told, by T&S. the 2 of them sat up there on the pulpit, big shysters, with big plans for themselves, as they looked out into the congregation of "gullible hippies". What fault could be found, in the above mentioned signs of a Bible- believing church ? it was a front that they had set up- a smokescreen. every one of them is scriptural. But they were not scriptural, at all. They were scheming together, to take us for every penny they could use us for. First came a place for us to be gathered in, from whatever walk of life, then all the rules (that's where we began to take our eyes off the word, and switch them to T&S) they told us that "breaking their rules was just like breaking the commandments" ...boloney ! they swiftly moved us up to a desolate, secluded area in the mountain/desert area of Ca., then came Bakersfield, and funneling all the money we made, into their greedy hands! Susan had studied the ministries of Kathryn Kuhlman and Aimee Semple MacPherson, and knew all the proper spiritual lingo. Tony just made up ludicrous, preposterous lies, to psyche all of us out. wow ! here are people who have seen u.f.o.'s, this guy was a big promoter of singers, could promote anything, he said, all the stuff they're saying has to be the truth ! they gave it all up to serve the Lord!! she was an actress, they met in the commissary of a movie studio. They saw no u.f.o.'s (but Tony has become so delusional lately, that I wouldn't doubt his seeing them now !!) he was no promoter- just a pro motor-mouth. they gave up nothing, they had never amounted to a thing- all they could do was climb UP!! she was no actress (except when she acted like a Christian) they did not meet in a movie studio commissary- but in a BAR !! LOL ! In spite of their satanic agenda- our rewards are great !! we worked our heads off and were sleep-deprived for the gospel of Jesus Christ,went through unbelievable tribulation for years, to please the Lord, who we gave our former lives up for. |
saved_21570
Junior Member
Username: saved_21570
Post Number: 45
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.163.95.238
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 8:43 pm: |
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Modesto,
I can only speak for myself. I believe what you are referring to is what WCO decribed a couple of posts back.
I certainly believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. That he died and shed his blood on Calvary, for the forgiveness of all mens sins, and that he was risen from the dead, by the Holy Ghost. These are the basic requirements for salvation.
On the other hand, I attempt to question every thing that was preached to us, and try it with the Word of God. Some I see as Scriptural and some not.
After Sue died, forget about it. Tony was always prone to heresy, and their was nothing holding him back. His ego joined his lust. That, along with a superb lack of understanding of God, or the Word, and he became the delusional heretic he is today.
So, to put it another way. I find no problem with the basic gospel, as I described it in the 1st paragraph. The problem from the beginning, in my view, was the basic government of the church. Tony and Sue were subject to no one. A sure recipe for failure. They both had ego problems, and control problems. Most of the twists in Scripture was to maintain their power over us. In doing so, they were stealing from God, what belonged to him.
Were there heresies? YOU BETCHA! On the other hand, I cannot be anything but grateful for the foundation that I was taught and allowed to lay in reading, praying, witnessing, and things of that nature. It is that foundation in Christ, that was laid in faith, that has kept me through many a storm, and will keep me to the end.
TA
(Message edited by saved_21570 on July 11, 2007) |
jackrussell
Junior Member
Username: jackrussell
Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 24.73.22.232
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:33 pm: |
|
Tom A,
You have really kept your head screwed on straight, and have painted a real good picture of the before and after. Always glad to read your witness and posts, keeps a lot in perspective, imo. Is inspiring for some like me who have waffled a bit, confused by it all. Keep up the matter of fact inspiration, and interpretation, find it very uplifting, thanks, G |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 106
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.77.119
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:44 pm: |
|
I believe in God the Father almighty,maker of heavan and earth; and in Jesus Christ his only son, our Lord;who was concieved by the Holy Ghost,born of the Virgin Mary;suffered under Pontius pilate, was crucified dead and buried; he descended into Hell;the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost............;the forgiveness of sins; the resurection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen
I hardly left out anything and I find it hard to argue with much of anything in the above words which are the "core beliefs" of the Roman Catholic Church. I assure you I'm not likely to become a Catholic any time soon. I put this in here to show the diversity of people who can have really sound sounding "core beliefs".So, just because I thought the ones at the early Foundation were alright doesn't mean I think the actions of the pastors were right.
Can Opener, Anchored and Tom,
Ive developed a great deal of respect and fondness for you guys,please don't think otherwise and I hope I didn't offend you.I hear what you are saying and will give it a GREAT deal of thought.I'm trying to give enrichment to all of us but maybe sometimes I get carried away.
John |
saved_21570
Junior Member
Username: saved_21570
Post Number: 46
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.163.95.238
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 11:55 pm: |
|
John,
No offence taken. Keep it up. You bring up alot of things that many people have thought about. I am just trying to answer the best I can, from my perspective.
It's funny you bring up the Apostles creed. I used to be able to whip off about ten recites of it in two minutes after confession. LOL
Of course, it meant nothing to me at the time. It was just required pentence. Kind of like when everyone fasts just because Tony says so.
TA |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 69.148.196.139
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 1:50 pm: |
|
LOL- the Lutheran Church that I was forced to attend for 10 glorious years also had that Apostles creed, it is interesting that parts of it are in the sinner's prayer. I sure never got ahold of the Lord through all that vain repetition. I had to go to parochial school (7th thru 9th grade) Martin Luther was supposed to have heard the voice of the Lord, one fine day, as he was crawling across GLASS, the penance required, in order to get thru the doors of the Catholic church, when he heard the voice of the Lord say "Martin Luther, the just shall live by faith" according to my Lutheran teachers, he reformed the Catholic church, but I don't know- our church had a big I.H.S. on the pulpit, and everything that went on during church bored me to pieces ! now here's something to ponder...the all-knowing Toe-Knee claimed that Martin Luther was a (LOL, you GUESSED IT !) POLYGAMIST !!!!! |
anchored
Junior Member
Username: anchored
Post Number: 37
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 71.205.65.52
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 2:55 pm: |
|
Yeah, to a polygamist, everyone else is a polygamist, to a liar, everyone else is a liar, everyone else is a thief, weasel, etc., etc.
What a loser. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 107
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.89.199
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:02 pm: |
|
Funny, I heard he sometimes felt guilt over having just one wife.Go figure.Tony knows best I guess. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 33
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.162.1
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:51 pm: |
|
John,
I certainly hope that nothing I typed up to you on this thread, was offensive in any way ! I do want to let you know, that EVERYONE was thrilled, when we saw that you were a new member on Factnet !, and were posting away, into the sunset !
yes, we are so glad you have joined in-for all the juicy discussions! I tried my hardest to clarify my points of view, on the all-over picture (happenings with T&S, hoaxes & heresies) All of us know how shocking and overwhelming it is, when one first discovers the depths of all the trickery, that they fell right into (NOBODY likes it, that's for sure)
Back in 2002, I told a friend, Suzanne, about the perv, and all the goings on.(did not know yet of more than the 4 wives, that was it) Suzanne was prodding me to write a book, but no matter how hard I tried, that was just IMPOSSIBLE, I was still scared to death that the false profit could be a real one, and when she would refer to the foundation as a cult, I would always say "the people who are there aren't a cult, all the cult stuff is just Tony" she never understood- but can you blame her ? we were so spiritually paralyzed.
now that we are all out from under the perv, and are 100% sure of what he is, after suffering so many things, it's really put a lot of love in a lot of hearts, for all the surviving brothers and sisters (thank you Jesus !!) we all love you, John, and are trying to make it all clearer, so that healing will come, from all the sewage and garbage we endured. God bless you
your friend- Claudia the worm can opener |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 108
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.89.199
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 6:59 pm: |
|
Ty Claudia,
That means a lot to me.Nothing you've ever said was offensive to me at all I was just worried about me offending one of you(I can be a bit vocal if I don't watch it and sometimes kind of abrupt).
Somebody ought to write a book about the Foundation,you seem like a good candidate to me.Wilma and some others have kept really good records of things too for reference.Some sort of collaboration would be really cool I think.
I've read a bit about Martin Luther.He seemed like a really complex guy.He described a crisis of faith he went through as a Friar then priest.He felt terrible about the scripture on how Jesus saved us from the "curse of the Law"
and where Jesus said "for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.".He thought compared to the New Covenant, the Law was a cake walk.He regarded the yoke of Jesus as the curse because it was so heavy he felt he couldn't possibly be good enough to be saved. He agonized during hours of prayer and painful penances but nothing helped.Finally he worked through it and saw the true Grace of God and that his crisis was the result of what he'd been taught by the church and not to do with the nature of God.I could really relate to that one myself.
Well I'm getting long winded again so I better go.
P.S.I know Martin Luther said some pretty ugly things at times.For one thing he seemed very anti Semitic.I'm not endorsing any of that stuff.He was a product of his times and culture like everyone else and ought to be seen in that context.
John |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.162.1
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 8:13 pm: |
|
John,
I have heard that from 3 or 4 sources, now. guess it's true that he hated the Jews-crying shame. yes, my parents sent me to that Lutheran School at 18th and Wilshire (Pilgrim Lutheran Church) did you ever hear of it, in your Brentwood days ? I was in the school all week, then on Sat. I went to the Bible class and confirmation class, on Sun. it was sunday school & church (can you even fathom how mad that would make a teeny-bopper, being all but incarcerated ?? no wonder I lashed out and threw fits on them !!) where did you live, during the O.J. scene ? we lived 3 streets from Rockingham !! but at THAT TIME, I was in Robstown Tx. a 1 donkey town, what a radical difference!!! ROTFL |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 109
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.89.199
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 9:45 pm: |
|
Claudia,
It's been about a zillion and a half years since I was in Brentwood.Last time I was in L.A. was in 1998,I stopped while going through Hollywood on my way back to the Salinas/Monterey area from San Diego, had a walk all the way from Hollywood and Vine to the Grauman's Chinese Theater and back (a bit of nostalgia only,didn't pass out any tracts about how Tony and Sue started the Jesus movement or "Alamo On Vine" cards, I guess I'll be sorry for that one day!!).No Brentwood though.My daughter and her friends just went to Santa Monica recently, some of my old stomping grounds, they had a blast.I used to live on Chenault St. near the corner of Montana and San Vincente.Bundy was not far from there and I guess that's where the famous murders took place.I got kind of tired of hearing about that just like I did Monica Lewinski.It was really a drag about Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman but they sure did flood the airwaves with those two stories (O.J. and Monica)you'd think that was all that was going on in the world.Too bad we couldn't get even a small fraction of that press for the kids who are in danger in the compound!Oh well.
John |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 12:39 am: |
|
18th and Wilshire. Isn't that close to Fromins Deli? I had jury duty during the O.J. trial. There was a tower (like an erector set) built across the street from the criminal courts building for the news cameras. I saw Chris Darden and was in line behind Shapiro. I said hello but, he gave me a dirty look (I was wearing a juror badge). The OJ jury was already in place but, I went to interview for different panels. Wasn't picked though. What was everybody watching on TV in the jury assembly room? You guessed it -- OJ? |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.247.200.203
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 9:22 pm: |
|
Modesto- I certainly do agree, that far too much attention was paid to the O.J. Simpson trial, it was an on-going soap opera for a solid year, plus. Clinton's mess was defended by this "churchy woman" I was aquainted with back then. I disagreed, whole-heartedly, when she said that whatever he did in his personal life was o.k. (nobody's business) he made it the business of the whole world- and for crying out loud- it was going on in the WHITE HOUSE !! I just told her "in his position, he's supposed to be a good testimony before the world" (NOT a whoremonger) yes, too bad the perv's story isn't the headlines of all the world's newspapers (YET) right now-he needs to be brought out in the open, as the preaching pedophile that he is (& lecher of young girls, rapist, brutal beater of children and adults, liar, thief of Katrina victims, whore-monger, false profit, pervert, polygamist, and fat, ugly boa constrictor, lying in wait to suffocate all who expose his evil deeds. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 110
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.132.62
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:08 pm: |
|
One thing that I wonder about when National attention is focused on events like O.J. ,Monica and those sorts of really sensational stories is what do the guys in the smoke filled rooms do while the heat's off them a bit because we're all watching the latest installment of the "straw man".For instance,I heard that Bill Clinton sold lots of secret info to China about missile technology and all kinds of things while we were busy focusing on Monica.I hear and agree with the concept of a President's duty to set an example,also, I wonder,if he couldn't even keep the vows of faithfulness he made to Hillary how could he keep his vows to the public (and this is not even bringing religion or Christian teaching in to it).Still, I think much too much fuss is made about these sorts of things in the media.It allows shady things to go on while we are distracted. |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.34.244.18
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:18 pm: |
|
Isn't that the point? |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 111
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.132.62
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:29 pm: |
|
Hi Bro-d
I'm not sure I understand you're meaning.Do you mean isn't it the point to distract attention?If so, I'd say it seems to me that that is the point but it's kind of hard for me to imagine this coordinated,orchestrated conspiracy of the media and government in collusion to pull this off.A more reasonable explaination seems to be that these sorts of stories sell papers and get ratings.
Of course,maybe that wasn't what you meant.Was it? |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.34.244.18
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 8:19 am: |
|
I meant that every time something happens that the administration doesn't want to focus on, they create a diversion. If they don't want to talk about the war in Iraq, they get everyone to focus on gay marriage or immigration. Often, the media does their work for them. People would rather read about Britney Spears' drinking problem than George Bush's domestic issues, and more still would just rather look at the pictures. We are a nation of sheep. |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 74
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.34.244.18
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 8:25 am: |
|
I'm no advocate for the Clintons, but we elected Bill President, not Pope. What he does in his personal life is not my business. I don't care. But I don't like being lied to. Plus, he coulda got better looking women to fool around with. At least Jack Kennedy had Marilyn and Angie Dickinson. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 112
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 70.134.96.244
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 9:50 am: |
|
Bro-d,
I should be careful to point out it works that way for both parties,lol.Bill had his Monicas and O.J.s to hide behind, George has his Britneys and Paris's.It would be an interesting study to see if CNN and FOX News each gave equal time to these non-issues during times when events of real importance were being neglected then see if either of them seemed to be trying to help out their guy,lol. |
heynow
Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.143.113.123
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 11:42 am: |
|
This stuff reminds me of Michael Moore. I don't agree with him 100% but, I think he makes some excellent objective points. I saw two of his movies "Roger and Me" and "Fahrenheit 911". Fahrenheit will give you some info you don't see on CNN. |
mixter1
New member
Username: mixter1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.134.87.44
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 5:47 pm: |
|
Hi Folks,
How about Karl rove exposing a CIA agent. Rove is
is refered to as 'Bushes Brain'. If Bush is willing to condone this stuff the both of them are dirt knap candidates. When questioned about it
they both turn white. I think Libby is just this fall guy!
Lords no!!! |
mixter1
New member
Username: mixter1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.134.87.44
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 6:22 pm: |
|
Yes,
Bush, Rove, Libby, and our beloved World Pastor
(who may just as I post this be toying with the idea of his very own child porno site) can catch the wormhole-express to judgement. The next thing that goes down should be them!
-Mix |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.34.247.225
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 7:33 pm: |
|
Do you remember going to vote in Saugus? Everyone was instructed to vote for Ronald Reagan. If Reagan were alive and running for President today, how many of you do think would still vote for him? |
mixter1
New member
Username: mixter1
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.134.87.44
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 8:29 pm: |
|
Hi brother_d,
I Remember that was a suggestion(imperative) Susan made. If Reagan's (when) was today he would
get elected. He was a student of politics. He may have been able to navigate the war issue. Despite an all democrate house. But I remember that trek up that hill to that polling place. What I find interesting is that Tony in one of his intensive tracts dubbed him an anti-christ;
why I don't know? What did he do or what did Tony make up? I found that stuff impossible to read. The sinners prayer was all the way at the end. Stuff about the pope, etc.
-Mix. |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 76
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.34.247.225
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 7:01 am: |
|
Well, I must be mistaken. Toknee wouldn't have told us to vote for Reagan if he knew he was the antichrist. Half the world knows that Pope Ratz is infallible and the catholic church is the only true church, and about 20 people know that Tonee is infallible. |
smitty
Junior Member
Username: smitty
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 71.102.155.42
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
|
Bro_d,:If I were able to,I would vote Regan '08 in a heartbeat. I know that candidates were "suggested" by Tony and Sue, however because of secret balloting, they never have been able to check up on us.
Which reminds me of a story: back during the primary elections in '76, Crawford Co. elections were at the same time as the statewide primary election. Since all candidates for County office were Democrats, the only way you could have a vote in County elections was to register and vote Democrat. That was the only time I ever voted Democratic, so instead of voting for Carter, I wrote in Geo. Wallace! Only time in my life I voted Democratic ticket. |
worm_can_opener
Junior Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.244.249.124
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 12:23 pm: |
|
hey bro d,
speaking of pope Ratz, Toe-Knee never tried to subpoena HIM, like he did J.P. (or did he ?) saw a hysterical newscast the other day ! some crazy guy had been trying to sue God, and was mad as a wet hen, because he had no address, in which to reach him ! LOL the anchor came on and says " pearly gates, Heaven" some catholic priest was in the backgroung, all dressed in the getup, palms together, eyes closed (the saint-look) it was such a 3 ring circus- I LOVED IT !! LOL |
mixter1
New member
Username: mixter1
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.134.87.44
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 12:40 pm: |
|
Hi,
When I pick a president my first consideration is
how they will be seen by the rest of the world.
If he or she is considered as strong then we get
resentment these days. I hope I can vote democrat
this time but that’s just not goanna fly. There
was no way I could vote for Carter back then.
I appreciate your discrete vote Smitty.
How many people are still in the foundation?
I'll bet Toeknee has a Militia to put down any
coups. Coups are a matter of timing and that
place is overdue.
-Mix |
mixter1
New member
Username: mixter1
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.134.87.44
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 12:51 pm: |
|
Good old pope Ratz; A member of the master race.
Whooa. Out of spite I try to watch Harry Potter
but don't care so much for it. Ratz is stone age.
hmmm.
Pope Ratz=406. Not the monkey. |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 77
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 68.155.164.234
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:26 pm: |
|
I don't particularly care for Pope Ratz or the Republicans - they both do too much meddling for my tastes, and both camps seem to have more than a few skeletons in their closets. Democrats, on the other hand, seem to have no focus. But I consider them the lesser of the two evils. Ron Reagan? I laugh when I think that I voted for him, but I don't dislike the guy. |
brother_d
Member
Username: brother_d
Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 68.155.164.234
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:32 pm: |
|
I never did like Carter. Talk about not having a clue! But then, what did I know? I was a hippie turned Jesus freak and brainwashed by two charlatans during the Carter years - forced to cut my hair and wear a polyester suit. That suit should have made me split! |
mixter1
New member
Username: mixter1
Post Number: 9
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.134.87.44
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 10:16 pm: |
|
Hi Bro-D,
I leave the foundation, get any job I can find.
Start to manage well. I go to Santa Monica 4 years later and the they are out there passing out tracks. They are still dressed the same. Members only and dirty. I shake Normans his hand. Norman brags about all the churches the GREAT TONEY set up everywhere. I'm dressed well
But the foundation members are shabby looking.
I'm asked a question are YOU SERVING THE LORD? over and over again until I realize I'm talking to Toney A-lame-OH instead. I ask him do you know the truth about TA. That flips him. Norms OK I guess. I get Devil status but TA is ready to go to jail. Odd Circumstances? Go figure. When I had a nice looking date I go up to them in Hollywood and say hello. They are drooling. OH WHAT A DELIGHT!
Take care
-Mix |
marcel
Member
Username: marcel
Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 86.69.91.200
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 2:58 pm: |
|
Hello everyone
I just updated the website with new pics I received.
Go to http://photosfoundation.neuf.fr/
Greetings
Marcel |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 197
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.25
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 3:45 pm: |
|
OMGotti!!!
As I live and breathe! Marcel! *swoop, flourish, courtsey*
Now watch, he won't be back for eons!
But thanks for the update!
|
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 198
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.25
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 4:08 pm: |
|
Modesto John,
For the record. You have never offended me either.
It now takes a LOT to do that.
Peace Bro. |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 199
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.25
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 4:15 pm: |
|
Thanks Wormy.
THIS is the Susan Alamo I remember!!
http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=18619&post=426130#POST426130 |
marcel
Member
Username: marcel
Post Number: 88
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 86.69.91.200
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 4:44 pm: |
|
Dyann, I don't know who you are, but can you please translate for me what you wrote ?
It sound like a cartoon !! lol !
OMGotti!!!
As I live and breathe! Marcel! *swoop, flourish, courtsey*
Now watch, he won't be back for eons!
But thanks for the update! }} |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 203
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.25
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 5:05 pm: |
|
It is sweetie!
But it's good to see you here.
I've only just found this site about 2 weeks ago.
Ex-early member. Rich Hydell's pics of four girls on your site.
Hope you are well. I have a Winter Wonderland outside my window. An inch of snow!
Take care. |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 204
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.25
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 5:25 pm: |
|
http://photosfoundation.neuf.fr/Pics%20from%20Richard%20Hydell/foundation2.jpg
Guess who that is behind the brothers? |
marcel
Member
Username: marcel
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 86.69.91.200
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 12:05 am: |
|
I don't know why but right now I cannot go anymore to my website http://photosfoundation.neuf.fr/
What's happening ? I hope it is just a maintenance problem from the server ?
Anyway , Dyann, on Richard pics, there is one with 5 girls and one with 4 girls and 2 guys in the back. What is the good one and where are you on the picture, if the website can be viewed when you get the message, I hope so because I will not be home for two days. |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 218
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.149.106
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 3:16 pm: |
|
I didn't brake it!
It's the one with 5 girls, I'm on the left (viewing the pic) with the (?) next to Jeannie Pucket, Kathy Seay, Pam Levy, and Vickie Volke.
Black dress, crooked part, dopey grin... |
marty_s
Junior Member
Username: marty_s
Post Number: 47
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.226.72.254
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 9:02 pm: |
|
marcel i didn't know you had a website. what else have imissed by being off this site for about a year. i just read this whole group of posts and i'm still trying to figure out who everybody is. i see johnny modesto is still modesto lol. i left the foundation in 82 the day after susie died. this stuff brings back a lot of memories. i guess to some the whole 12 years i spent there god used it to get whatever i needed to get out of me, out of me. i remember a lot of people and i know that what claudia was talking about with the mothers was true, i didn't see it then but i see it now.i redeicated to the lord back in 96 after spending about 8 years in sin 4 of them in prison. i got involved with keneth hagin ministries and learned a lot of the wrath and love of god and i'm involved in a church here in albany ny. i'm trying not to make this a popcorn testimony lol yet trying to let my bros. and sis ,what i've been up to. i'm still in contact with a lot of people. good to see everybody god bless. |
heynow
Intermediate Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 374
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.130.221.114
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 9:40 pm: |
|
Great stuff Marty, Did you ever see Bob T.? |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 321
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 76.209.132.221
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 9:57 pm: |
|
Really good to hear from you Marty.
Johnny M. |
marty_s
Junior Member
Username: marty_s
Post Number: 48
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.226.72.254
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 10:22 pm: |
|
i was with booker a couple of weeks ago at a mets
game. |
modesto
Intermediate Member
Username: modesto
Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 76.209.132.221
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 11:19 pm: |
|
Tell him hello for me will you?Haven't seen him in decades either.Good guy. |
wilma
Advanced Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 624
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.185.141.125
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 9:42 am: |
|
Hey, Marty, tell Booker that hubby and I say Hello. He was one of my friends and my favorite bus-boy. He encouraged me through many horrendous times on night crew at the restaurant. I hope he has had a good life!
Tell him that Ernie H can still be talked into giving us a demonstration of the "Booker walk" to everyone's delight. LOL
Speaking of...I remember coming back to the bakery with Pat H and helping you fill the eclairs...eons ago.
Susie |
jackrussell
Intermediate Member
Username: jackrussell
Post Number: 323
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 70.126.185.30
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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In retrospect- biblical life, the ideal.
Speaking for myself and perhaps for many, after the wonderful born again experience, and Holy Ghost anointing,
it seemed only right to abide in that calling wherein you were called, which mistakenly was interpreted as a cloistered and controlled atmosphere under the tuteledge of Bernie lazar Hoffman and Edith Opal Horn Lepowitz Alamo. Really that 'calling' means freedom with responsibility, only as greenies, we did not know that at the time.
Certainly, a sheltered life would much help defray the draw of many temptations that many of us so deeply imbibed in, previous to our encounter on the road to Damascus. In spite of much heresy from the onset in the TSACF, a blessing was on our head because of sincerity. The major off road tangent was led by no other than Tony & Sue, and morphed into full bore throttle upon the death of Susan Alamo, as the selfish heart of Tony Alamo took on a life, or should it be said death, of its own, all the way to mayhem.
For those of us, whom have been gone a long long time it is so utter shocking except for the understanding of the graduality of darkness. Give Satan an inch, and he will take a mile, but he will take it very gradually over a long period of time because, he is more subtle than any beast in the field.
Which is why there still must be prayer, and empathy for former bros and sisters stuck in the lair of TAs' machinery because of that gradual nature of the subtility of evil that perhaps has crept into their hearts almost unaware so very, very gradually.
Having left early, in the mid 70's, I do not count myself smarter than those that stayed on, as I was a closet supporter for many years, even in a worldly state, I simply did not really know any better.
Some ex members that post here, and some that don't, that stayed late in the game provide us all with such valuable insights, as they were there while the beatings were carried on, during the infancy of the polygamy addendum, the starting and gradual escalation of violence of all sorts, etc., etc,. etc.
Now, we do not hold it against them, that is, their participation in that conduct as it is understood that those that stayed late were no more of a deer in the headlights than we who left early, as they are now here with us, as much against the recognition of this evil, that none of us quite realized before, in spite of how obvious it may have appeared to any already escaped to the outside of the controlling aura of that now full blossom pedophile, Tony Alamo.
Thanks so much Wilma for you strident candor, and Raining and others who left somewhat under the wire, and Mike Borek, we know you are listening, and understand your involvement, but do not want you to harbor resentment to yourself, we were all snow jobbed, it is such a gradual thing, and can snowball big before you realize it. If you think you cannot be forgiven by all, there is bloodshed that can disprove that. So please, Mike, don't keep too much bottled up inside, if you can help with any inside knowledge you possess that may stem the tide of the Tony Alamo agenda, many would appreciate that. And if not to post here, contact the proper authorities. You were really a good bro when I knew you in the early days, with a good heart, I don't think that has changed in spite of some bad circumstances. Most of us have had some rough times, in and out of the place, some of our own making, if we are to be entirely honest with each other. It goes with the territory. Don't be a stranger. Peace |
raining
Advanced Member
Username: raining
Post Number: 562
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 69.228.13.223
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 11:21 am: |
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Hi Marty
It is great to see you on factnet again.
Sue B |
worm_can_opener
Intermediate Member
Username: worm_can_opener
Post Number: 247
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.243.165.58
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 12:27 pm: |
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Hey Marty,
so nice to have you back !!
you scared the snot out of me once. It was at the candy building. you were way up there on one of those storage shelves, about 3 stories up, when you swung from one beam to the other, I was sure that all that would be left of you was a pool of blood ! Tarzan wouldn't have attempted that one. LOL Well, keep on posting, we have missed hearing from you ! Claudia |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 224
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.158
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 1:09 pm: |
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Ernie Harris?
Wilma, is he out? Praise God! I loved that brother...well, not like that!
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dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 225
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.150.158
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 1:18 pm: |
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....."Now, we do not hold it against them, that is, their participation in that conduct as it is understood that those that stayed late were no more of a deer in the headlights than we who left early, as they are now here with us, as much against the recognition of this evil, that none of us quite realized before, in spite of how obvious it may have appeared to any already escaped to the outside of the controlling aura of that now full blossom pedophile, Tony Alamo."
AMEN JackRussell! |
wilma
Advanced Member
Username: wilma
Post Number: 625
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.185.141.125
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 2:12 pm: |
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With much sadness I state that I stayed for 25 years. Ahhhhhh. I hung to those words that those that endure until the end shall be saved. Then one glorious day God started to chip through the suppression of all logical thought. He got me to start actually questioning the craziness that surrounded me in the alamo cult. It took a couple of months of carefully considering what was the right thing to do. Then my whole family slipped out in the middle of the night! Glorious freedom and TRUTH!!
That is one reason why I think there is still hope for some of those still there. If God could open my eyes and deliver me out of there after 25 years there is still hope for others.
When I got out I had a strong desire to understand the dynamics of spiritual abuse. I educated myself about coercive persuasion and thought reform. We all have our own journey and individual time frame to healing when we get out. I thank God for his mercy is setting me FREE!
Yes, Ernie Harris and wife (Pat Decker) have been out since 1991.
SusieG |
simpleword
Junior Member
Username: simpleword
Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 74.170.109.133
| | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 8:13 pm: |
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Yes wilma and you must continue to endure out here,it maybe easyer for you now,yet you must still endure.. That scripture still pretains |
jackrussell
Intermediate Member
Username: jackrussell
Post Number: 327
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 70.126.185.30
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 1:09 am: |
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'Then one glorious day God started to chip through the suppression of all logical thought.'
Wilma, that is so real! Rememember when Tony and/or Sue would really do something off base, the members were all so programmed, and practised constant denial, that they could do no wrong, no matter what they did. We actually believed the Lord did sanction the evil that they did because somehow it was accepted that they had some kind of unconditional high calling.
We were deceived, and for so long not seeing the forest thru the trees, reading the bible in the letter, and not heeding the Spirit that gives it life, truth and responsibilty, and instead allowing Tony Alamo to overide the proper interpretations, for replacements of his own.
How many times did the inner man say, " Say it ain't so!" only to be set back in the darkness, on a back burner, until it just could not be contained any longer, and had to just burst out at the seams! God is good! |
marty_s
Junior Member
Username: marty_s
Post Number: 49
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.226.72.254
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 11:15 am: |
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yea amen to that. so many times we suppress that inner witness of the holy spirit that said this is wrong. |
marty_s
Junior Member
Username: marty_s
Post Number: 50
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.226.72.254
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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i meant suppressed as when we were in the foundation. |
marcel
Member
Username: marcel
Post Number: 90
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 86.69.91.200
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 3:11 pm: |
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Hello to everyone
For some reason the website with the pics at http://photosfoundation.neuf.fr/ has disappeared ?
Does a hacker care for us ?
So here is the new website:
http://memoriesfoundation.free.fr/
There is link to a forum also.
Praise the Lord
Please, send the link to anyone you know from the foundation, thanks !
Marcel |
dyann
Intermediate Member
Username: dyann
Post Number: 236
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 12.72.149.239
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 3:35 pm: |
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Thank you Marcel for keeping your site maintained.
It's very probable Tony has minions mucking up your site. |
heynow
Intermediate Member
Username: heynow
Post Number: 379
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 71.130.221.114
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 6:41 pm: |
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Good work Marcel. Glad it's back. I am sure everyone will agree. |
marcel
Member
Username: marcel
Post Number: 91
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 86.69.91.200
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 6:01 am: |
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Thank You
I just make the site look better, isn't ?
http://memoriesfoundation.free.fr/
Also i had a new link to Jim Hunt. |
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