| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
My sister WAS working for "The Advertising Group", a subsidiery of "Cydcor" in Los Angeles, CA (other family members all ready have her in their care and away from the group). She has been displaying all of the usual "cult" characteristics: work and co-workers are her life outside of work, she's made to believe outrageous claims like making 100,000 in less than a year, she is alienating family and friends, she pledges allegiance to work and not to family, she has grandiose ideas of where this job will take her, etc. DOES ANY ONE KNOW HOW TO PULL ANYONE OUT OF THIS PROGRAMMED STATE? HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THIS GROUP? PLEASE HELP! | ||
| Anonymous |
in response to the message from anonymous. I have been a psych nurse for 10 years and when my best friend started working for "cydcor" in miami florida just three weeks ago i thought something was wrong. to this point they have him working ridiculously long hours (lack of sleep) he barely eats ( lack of nutrition ) and is breathing the company mantra JUICE (Join Us In Creating Energy). This company has also infiltrated his off time (what little there is) by wanting to see him in a "social setting". they recently took a road trip to atlanta ga, im sure to keep instilling the wonders of this company to a captive audience. when i ask him questions about the strange behavior for a corporation he acts as though i have committed blasphamy. to this date i have decided to get professional advice to pry him from this company. it will not be easy but i am willing to do whatever it takes to pull him out. i will write back when all is resolved. thanks for reinforcing my "gut" feeling. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes, you are both right in being concerned with members of 'Cydcor'. I was a member of a Cydcor affiliate. I think it is a cult, but not recognizeable because it looks like a job. You respond to an ad in help wanted, there is job training, etc. It wasn't until I left that I began investigating my own involvement. (For some reason I couldn't get my former 'job' off my mind) You don't live in a commune or give them your money. You just spend MOST of your time working and make very little money. (Though they make you feel like it is your fault for not making money, because you don't work hard enough) They promote the idea that they are the questioning independent thinkers the world needs(you are encouraged to compare yourself to a Rhino- charging ahead with one's destiny) and the rest of the working world is unthinking cattle (yes, they are 'cows', follow with the herd, unable to question authority) As they put it, they treat you like owners, and they don't 'coddle' you with things like salaries and health insurance. To be sure, it is not all negative, and some offices seem to be better than others. Some of my positive experiences include learning to work hard, and learning some excellent sales techniques. The real danger comes from believing that you will be rich when you run your own office. I now believe that they choose who will run the offices based on a combination of charisma and public speaking abilities. Influential leaders are few and far between. I hope this organization continues to attract questioning, and is someday exposed for what it really is. Other names it is affiliated with: DS Max, Cydcor, Granton Marketing. There is a recovery board for people who used to be involved at MSN groups. Go there and search DS MAX. | ||
| Bud P |
<Spam Deleted by Administrator> | ||
| Anonymous |
Moderator The above post has been posted on more than one forum. It looks like it could be some kind of advertisment for a get rich quick scheme. Do you really want this here? | ||
| Anonymous |
I've recently left the biggest U.S. office of DS-MAX, and was working for the communications side of Cydcor in Houston. I have been victimized cruelly by this office, and my gullibility and lack of confidence was their way of getting me in. When my loved ones were frightened at my behavior, it scared me more. I could not stop myself from talking about the company. They promoted me to leader and told me it was a way of life. If you can get their leaders book and point out the harsh reality of it to them, it could help. It's like their notebook bible. They push everyone to work harder and longer at a fast-pace. They were going to take me to a road trip on my 2nd day, and said I wasnt ready, so i got ready and went to the 50, 000 member Christmas party. The first sign, was the way we had to impress, then 95% of the room had not been there more than a year. And the owner of our office was the host of the whole ordeal. Half of the biggest hotel in Dallas Tx was screaming JUICE as they got trashed. What helped me out was my pay was under min. wage with the hours, I missed my family so much when I worked, as well as my fiance. If you love them you will make sure they can't get to work, and they eat nutritiously every day to keep their mind in tact. I quit December 17th and am still recuperating from the damage they put in me. I failed them everyday, they punished me by not paying me, feeding me, took away breaks, isolated me from the people I trusted there. They destroyed the confidence I worked for prior to cydcor, they made me feel like I helped people. Work seemed better than home life because my loved ones didn't support my dream of being a business owner at 18, not going to college and getting rich. They teach you that losers go to college, and that you are a loser and should conform to their professional positive isolated life. Whatever is taught, has to be untaught. I wanted to die before I thought I could quit the "opportunity", but I had too many people worried and caring about me to do that to them. I am so grateful for my family for helping leave ds-max | ||
| Anonymous |
There are two sides to every story and after reading your sides, i'd like to tell my own. I have never worked for a company that has been so excited to bring in a new employee. I will admit my first day made me a bit uneasy about the company, screaming "JUICE" (Join Us In Creating Excitement) and wildy clapping, but on your first day you don't see the big picture. At a regular job you DONT want to get out of bed, you DONT want to work hard, and you DONT like knowing there is someone out there trying to take your promotion, your spot in the business and trying to get you fired, so they will be one step closer. At DS-MAX, there is NO worry of that, you come in because YOU have chosen to work hard for your money, you have chosen to to leave your negative thoughts about working outside your job, and for ONCE in your life you WANT to smile. i wake up happy every morning at 5:00 to go to work at 7am. I teach others about how to be motivated, steps to working hard for what you want, and they teach me. I never live in fear of losing my opportunity to move up in the company, because everyone that wants to work for it will move up. In our company we do set goals, but kids in grade school set goals too. We need something to keep us motivated short term and long term. Our Manager speaks to us as HUMAN BEING and gives his employees positive recognition NO MATTER how little we made that day. He is always proud because we gave our all. Every manager i've worked for in the past looked on the negative side of EVERYTHING, no matter how big or small! From 9am to 6pm we go out on our own to have fun, make a few deals, sell products to people at a RESONABLE price, and we work at our own pace! NOBODY has told us to work harder, because we work as hard as we know we can. PLUS WE EAT! How could any human go on without food and water all day long?! We stop and eat when we ae hungry, we eat before we leave and make sure we supply ourselves with plently of water! WE AREN'T STUPID people, without giving our body energy, we couldn't survive our long hard days. Then after our rewarding day we come back and teach eachother again, sharing positive stories and pating eachother on the back! Now i will admit 7-6:30 is A LONG day, VERY long, but hell i come home, i clean, i make dinner, i can do laundry and watch tv, then i get in ed around 10-11pm. and sleep. Plus you act like we work 24/7... SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS WE HAVE OFF! If you are invited to work Saturdays, and you want to, that's extra cash in your pocket! I don't have the dream of being a millionaire, i just like woking with fun people, that don't slack off, so the job is always equal and rewarding. PLUS YOU WONT FIND MANY FAT PEOPLE working in our job, and it's not being you claim we dont eat, it's because we EXERCISE, typing on a keyboard all day IS NOT EXERCISE. If you get hired chubby, you'll be in good health conditions if you stick to it. It's a health center and a life opportunity in one. Now about the Money part, yes you have to do your own taxes, it's called BEING RESPONSIBLE, do some work for a change, so you have to keep records of everything you make, big deal keep a notebook! DO THE MATH! Even we can and some of my co-workers are HIGH SCHOOL DROP OUTS! I earn my money, every cents, and i save my money. I don't want to be rich.. i just want to pay my bills, save for college, and hell put some money away for the future. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR!? I am not telling anyone to Join our company, and i am not saying that in your narrow minded minds that it is wrong to call us a cult. Although I go to church, i hang out with friends, I LOVE AND KEEP IN CONTACT WITH MY FAMILY, I swim, i go shopping, I EAT 3 MEALS A DAY and I sleep enough hours a night to have energy to get up in the morning. If someone you know has been working for the same company and lost contact with you, lives for the job, MAYBE it's because THEY NEVER LIKED YOUR NEGITIVE ATTITUDE TOWARDS EVERYTHING! People today HATE LIFE.... well i say if YOU hate life, you shouldn't live, there's no point, people are so negitive, they never EVER try to search possitively! And if your reasons for naming my company a cult are because of long hours, well I know at least 15 gas stations that are 24 hours, i have seen the same people working the day into the late evening shift, so THEY MUST BE IN A CULT! Or is it because their 5.15 an hour job ISN'T HELPING THEIR LIFE,so they have to work more to put food on the table. And at supermarkets i have worked with asst. managers and managers that have worked MORE than a 12 hour day, and i have NEVER EVER heard "cult" being mentioned. We work long hours, but we want to, and we want to work longer hours because in this job we are happy, we smile to smile and not because of fear of being fired and we yell and clap for eachother because its a SELF ESTEEM booster! DS-MAX has showed me how to be proud for what i do and also shown me i can always do better, if i want too, but that is all up to me. If you want it, you have work for it! I choose this job and someone else choses to work at McDonalds. It's all about where you want to work. I have freedom to leave this company anytime i want, just like Mcdonalds, but i don't want too, just like someone that actually enjoys making cheeseburgers doesn't want too! | ||
| Jeff Chan |
I'm 20 years old, and I'm running my own DS-MAX location. I have been in the buisness a year and two months. Last week I profited 3300 dollars after buisness expenses. I'll run around saying juice for that kind of money. | ||
| Anonymous |
Cydor aka dsmax aka milton marketing, aka whatever is a pyramid scheme. Don't get involved. I didn't, thank god I got the hell out of their on my second "interview." | ||
| Nick Loutzenheiser |
I left ds-max recently after almost 9 months in the company. I had 2 leaders and 3 "blue" first generations. I left because my unwillingness to spend my personal time-which wasn't much after getting there at 6:30(before my guys) and getting out of there at 8 pm( after my guys)if i didnt have to go night-merching- with my crew was holding me back from the opportunity. Corporate Cult? Maybe yes, maybe no....but i made 25k in my time there...and as a 20 year old felon thats pretty damn good. I also gained tons of experience, and got tons of great job offers because of it. I have seen peoples confidence soar because of this business and seen my leader get promoted into management and make bank. Now-if it is a corporate cult or if it isn't does't matter to me- the experience and good work habits I learned are going to help me in my next job/career....I havent decided which job offer i am going to accept .....but I do know that I never would have gotten the offers being a felon without the experience and customer relationships that I built thanks to DS-MAX. | ||
| Anonymous |
I saw a posting on Monster.com for Wincor and applied. As I applied, I remember thinking, I hope this isn't another MLM scam like Primerica or something. I was very skeptical on my first interview because they called me the very next day and said they were "impressed" with my resume and wanted me to come in that day. I showed up early and decided to do some research. First, I looked on the business directory in the building and they weren't even listed. My friend told me they had been advertising for the same position for over a year. I thought it was strange they weren't on the directory after that long. So, my first interview lasted for about 6 minutes. There was someone sitting behind me watching the entire thing... which was really strange. They didn't ask anything about my accomplishments. They also asked me to fill out a form with my SSN and personal information/ references. I filled it out and then started to freak out when I left. I went to the bathroom and then walked back into the office and asked for my application back. I told them I had written down the wrong number for one of my references. I got the application back and the manager had written, "Sharp and Open Minded" across it. I quickly changed some of the 2's to 8's and 3's to 8's in my SSN and left. That night, I got 4 calls inviting me back for the next day. I tried to ask more questions, including "Is this a MLM company?" and was assured it was fine and all my questions would be answered during my ride along. The next day I showed up and met with 3 other people in the lobby that also questioned if it was a scam. I was matched up with a trainer who had been there only 3 weeks. She was something else, dressed like she was ready to go out to a night club. When we went down to the main lobby, we were greeted by another poor individual that had just started with the company the day before. I was told the training would focus mainly on her... great ,a total waste of my time. Then they told me we could only go in 2 at a time so I was expected to stand outside in the cold Seattle rain while they were inside. I decided to stick it out until lunch... we went to a taco stand. During lunch, I asked how you made money. She said, "it's great because when you sell coupon books, you get $15.00 tax free for each book!" I asked her how it was tax free and she said, "well, they pay cash so the IRS can't track it." I said, "Well, you claim that on your schedule C right?" She said, "Why would you, it's free income that can't be tracked." Ha Ha. She flinched when I told her I used to be a CPA =) So, we called on a nail salon and I said, "You know what? I want to get a pedicure. Go finish your day and get me when you're done." To my surprise, she did. I went back to the office and took their "test" and of course passed with flying colors. They offered me the job... pedicure and all, and were downright pissed when I said I'd need to talk it over with my husband. Oh, I almost forgot... that morning, they wanted me to fill out a bunch of new hire paperwork like my W-4, I-9 and new hire reporting paper. All of it had ssn, d.o.b. and other stuff. I refused to fill it out and said I had trouble with identity theft. They said they needed it in case something happened in the field. I said that was crap and that I knew better because I sold payroll services and all of that was for pay information. So, needless to say, I won't be going back. I think they figured out that I was on to them because they were really mean when I left. I am just glad I had the sense to check them out. Go with your intuition! | ||
| Kate Oneill |
I can't believe I fell for the line of BS Cydcor fed me. I felt in my gut something was wrong from the very beginning, but I wanted so badly to establish myself professionally. I have been with Cycor for 2 weeks now in one of the Atlanta offices. Everything I have read (and there is a lot out there) is eerily similar to my experience. I am sad that I will be unemployed again, but I am so thankful that there is information which guided me in the right direction. I am horrified that I was sucked into a cult, but I will not be showing up for work on Monday for the ridiculous 'morning meeting'. Oh and yes, they keep the office extremely hot in Atlanta. By the time the morning meeting is over, I am sweating. Ditto for the 'atmosphere'. | ||
| Anonymous |
i use too work for ds max in largo florida.i had no idea this was a cult until someone i was chatting with asked if any 1 had worked for ds max so she gave me the link too this site and reading others story has open my eyes a little bit as too what was really goin on in the office i only worked there for a month due too the fact i wasnt makeing enough money and the demands were far greater than the pay offs the day i quit me and like 3 other guys quit at the same time the office manager literly chased us too the parking lot trying too convince us that we were makeing a mistake i actully have a friend who still works there me and a guy named jesse i met at the company became friends and we were talking about how some people seemed too be brain washed by this place they target young people who are vulnerable its not the normal work atmosphere you walk into the office in the morning there is loud techno music blaring every 1 is shakeing your hand and slapping you on the back like you just fed a thousand starveing children then you go into the training room and get "trained by a leader"you practice your sales pitch with other salesmen then thats when the weird stuff goes on every1 starts chanting and clapping banging on wallas going nuts pretty much then the manager tells about the days products being sold cant forget how they tell you how sucsessfull your going to be then every1 loads into their cars and works very long hours with hardly any breaks walking all day keep in mind i live in florida and it gets too be 100 105 degrees and you have too wear a tie and pants and walk for 12 hours a day then you come back too the office for some more cult activities they call it ringing the bell they put a bell in the middle off the room and every1 circles it chanting and claping then 1 person at a time runs in the middle picks up the bell and rings it that is followed by every 1 saying ohhhhhhhhhhhh real loud after this 1 at a time your takein into the office and thats when your day goes sour when they give you 35 bucks for working all day too make them rich they want you too bust you a22 all day and give you chump change and they make people belive they have a futrue with this company by telling them ohh this guy started in the field like you now he is bill gates neighbor etc etc just a bunch of bs i have all of the booklets they give you and sales stragities if any 1 is intrested in reading them | ||
| notthistime |
In the words of the great Homer Simpson, " I smell a scam, or possibly scamola" Stay away from this company, they are spreading like the plague. Cydcor has affiliates all over the world. They all operate under different names, the one that i tried to get sucked into was called Marketing Sessions out of Oakbrook, Illinois. Had a long more detailed post written but i somehow deleted it. This company operates out of the same building as World Financial Group, formerly World Marketing Alliance. For those of you who don't know, this company was started by former Amway bigwigs. If you want someone to blow smoke up your ass you can all do it yourself with a short length of hose. | ||
| Kate Oneill |
Has anyone gone to the Better Business Bureau's website and typed in Cydcor? I have. Believe it or not, there are no complaints filed, so I can't say what they are doing is illegal, unethical, etc., *but* it does say that the BBB has requested information from this company, and this company has *refused* to provide information. Anyone care to speculate as to why? | ||
| Anonymous |
You people really need help. Cydcor is not a cult! It is an attitude based business just like Japanese companies. A cult brainwashes people to get their money and manipulate them. Cydcor is a job and although I don't agree with the type of sales they do some people have made big money. It's a matter of how badly one wants that. All you conspiracy theorists really need to be re-educated or wake up!!! | ||
| Deborah |
Hey anonymous, dont you think that people overeact in the usa? I can understand when people have been mistreated. Im not without compassion or sensitivity for my fellows. I do believe in mass hysteria, however and it only just takes one person to incite that word 'cult' and like disease it spreads, and before you know it the people who are against it form a group and the group, if it doesnt modulate and control, can become as bad as the very group that it says is evil, says it is against all these people that stand for one thing. | ||
| Anonymous |
Well, cult or not, it sure has many of the elements of one. I went to the first interview, and sure enough, I was called for the second and congradulated, as though I'd won a prize. After reading all there is on Cydcor and its related companies, (a lot and mostly negative) I've determined that I'll not be seeking employment with them. I'm curious about other stories out there though. Positive and negative. Please post if you have something to add. Note: In my case the business names are "Shepard & Shepard and Brass Marketing Group" Jacksonville Fl. | ||
| Anonymous |
Anyone who is repulsed by DS-MAX and its affiliates has every right to that sentiment. The company is taking large hits, as offices in New York, Texas, California, and Florida have recently settled large class action lawsuits against their former bosses and also the parent company DS-MAX. Though the claims that are being settled vary from case to case (lying, embezzlement of employee income, managerial tax evasion through independent contracting, defrauding employees, sexual harrassment, etc.), there are thousands of other offices operating under the same types of conditions. I hope that the brainwashed individuals who work for these companies see the light, because they will not only help themselves but they may get a large financial settlement for monetary and punitive damages. Good luck to all. | ||
| Anonymous |
Also, watch out for Hilltop Solutions, operating in San Diego!!! Their manager goes by the name "Michael Rivera" and they are using all of the major job listings to recruit members. Hilltop Solutions is just another affilate of Cydcor, aka Arsene-Lee Advertising Group and DS Max. I was duped into wasting several hours of my day going to an interview, believing it was a promising position at a real advertising firm that created campaigns for client companies. It's not!!! I asked why they don't have a website up....supposedly this is because "Mr. Rivera" values his privacy and doesn't need the publicity for his company since they have all the business they can handle. I asked to see some examples of their advertising, all I got was a runaround speech about how they do business "differently"..... Thankfully, my internet search skills led me to more information and complaints about Cydcor. I didn't bother returning the call that "congratulated" me and invited me back for more training. And I showed up at the training, to distribute information about this scam to the others who were there, and warn them not to waste their time! They were mad as hell at me for exposing the scheme to their prospective recruits, who were about to spend a 9-hour unpaid day doing door-to-door sales and getting indoctrinated into their false promises of unlimited opportunity. Anybody from San Diego who comes across this posting, or who gets involved with Hilltop Solutions -- look out!!!! They are very shady about telling people upfront about the true nature of their business. In the words of Public Enemy, we need to "shut 'em down!" and get the Turko Files to report them on TV! | ||
| Anonymous |
Ds-max, cydcor, granton marketing. It is a cult. Not in the sense that they are getting members to worship a weird god or undertake in interesting rituals. The god is fincial independance. And the means to get is by going door to door, adopting their attitude and building a sales crew out of your pocket. I regret the day I joined this organization. I was in for over 4 years. I left with some clothes, $80 and sales experience. I was also 16k in debt with a repossed car and not a place a place to stay. To top it off I hurt people. How? I influenced many people to stay that should not have. Plus they had me sell illegitamate promotions. In defense of them - most of the campaigns they have are good. But in a division I was in - we had at least four fraudulent travel promotions that never worked. Three were for buy one get 1 free nights at casino's in las vegas and one was for getting 3 nights of unused times share space in condominiums for $60. All for campaigns added to over a 7 months of sales where I was nothing more than a conman. (I had been told that everything was legitamate!) It follows a classic mlm model. You have an office with one or more campaigns. The business is acquired by going door to door. A city is divided up and you do your section for the whole day. To advance YOU train a sales crew and split some of your daily earnings to help pay them. They don't take out taxes. You pay for all food and transport. You have to have a sales crew big enough to support an office in order to be promoted - usually at least 10 people. And five of them have to be 1st generation leaders(someone in the business for at least a few weeks that makes ok money and is sold on the opportunity and promoted to this status)If you build a sales crew big enough you can run your own office and money will be ok. Financial independance is obtained by influencing reps in your office to build offices of their own. You will then get an override off of each deal promoted out of your office. Get enough deal out and you will be financially independant. I could go on and on. They dictate how you should think and feel. - always motivated to sell and train and work however long and influence new people to stay. To always act positive and upbeat - to only say positive things about your day, your goals, ds-max and the campaign. (so bringing up the fact that you might not have made money in 2 days, or that the police kicked you out of a building or that half your crew quit and you half to spend time and money building a new crew - is not fit to bring up.) They have hi-jacked self help sections of bookstores on how attitude should be. They promote a classic we-they mentality. It is either 1)financial independance through ds-max, working for your self and being an entreprenurial vice president or 2) being an average Joe schmoe at mcdonalds that will be laid off, that works for other people that will be a victim of others his whole life. (I thought entrepreneurs thought up of thier own ideas - not followed someone elses. I guess Lee Iaccoca and Andrew Carnegie must have started off door to door too?!) They discourage any dissent to what they want to here. They discourage the rep from any family members or activitys that might take them away from time in the business. So leave your dissenting wife and give upon your night school or going to the gym. And it is a lot of time you spend in the business. If you are a leader you should arrive early - before your crew. Lets say you are going business to busines. Get there at 645am. The meeting will be at 800am. So up to then is "atmosphere" where you should only teach and learn about the busines. Leaders go around and go over pitching with new people. "negative" people get quarantined from impressionable new people. You get your order of goods to sell. The meeting starts. If you don't participate in the chants the owner will not be happy with you. In the meeting the owner picks a topic to speak about and gives recognition to sales people that did well the prior day. Out in the field now. Drive the territory and sell solicit all the business. When the business close in the evening, drive back to the office, settle up with what you have sold - and hang around for another hour or so of "atmosphere". If you are a leader you had better act like you had made money that day and that you had fun. Be sure to quarantine any one that is acting negative and be sure to try and teach some one something positive about the business. If you are a leader you should be trying to get a crew meeting in with you crew. But not at the expense of missing any atmosphere! Hope this sheds some light. | ||
| Anonymous |
Can anyone share what their ads in the newspaper look like? Do they advertise anywhere other than th newspapers? My fiancee was involved in San Bernadino.CA. a few years ago. He doesnt say much about it, didnt go for more that the first day. I am curious about their advertising for new employees. | ||
| Anonymous |
go to the Msn user group called dsmax the aftermath. Or www.msnusers.com/dsmaxtheaftermath. They have several example links on the sight. Good luck. | ||
| Anonymous |
I've been researching Ds-Max for about six months now. They have a lot of affiliates in the Bay Area, where I live, and they're always advetising on a site called craigslist.org. Go there, click on marketing jobs, and you'll see some of them. Whenever I see one of their ads I put a message in the "general community" section, telling people it's a scam and not to apply for the job. So, if you go to that section you'll probably see some of my messages. | ||
| CHAD M. |
ITS SO FUNNY, EVERYONE IS SAYING THIS STUFF THEY DONT EVEN NO IS TRUE, U JUST SEE SOMTHING DIFF... AND ASSUME ITS GATTA BE A SCAM OR A CULT . BUT ITS NOT, I LOOKED FOR SOMONE TO SLIP UP CAUSE I THOUGHT THE SAME THING BUT ITS JUST A BUNTCH OF PEOPLE LEARNIN HOW TO WORK HARD NOING THAT IF THEY DO THEY WILL RUN THERE OWN BUILDING . ITS NOT FOR EVERYONE, JUST DONT ASSUME ITS SOMTHING WHEN U HAVE NO CLUE. | ||
| Seth |
I know what some of you are saying - but at the same time i think some of you are going overboard on the claims of it being an evil cult that sucks the brains out of people and makes them do what they want. I am a former worker of Granton Marketing/Wheelchair sports (part of DS-max group.) I worked in 2 different offices for a total of 9 months (I started in chicago then moved to kansas city. I quit last month). Its true that people there work long hours and don't make a ton of money. But I can say even for myself that i learned a good deal while i was there. And while i might look back sometime and wish i had made more money over the past year, It lead to a lot of sales experience and the opportunity i have now. (i met a guy out in the "field" and we are starting a new company.) I quit because the weather was getting warm again and i decided i was getting tired of the long hours and wanted to have some fun. This in itself was helpful as well. -its helped me to get my priorities straight and has reminded me that money isn't everything - and it's only good if you have something to spend it on. The company certainly isn't for everyone. And i think some offices are worse than others. but somebody going into it has to realize that not everyone gets to ownership. In the office i started in ppl let me know that only about 2% of everyone makes it. Its people who go in there and think its going to be a guarenteed easy way through life that are the ones that complain about it later. I think that it has good to offer if you are willing to learn it. Seth | ||
| Anonymous |
An explanation of Ds-max What do mean they have you going DOOR TO DOOR! Months of just scraping by on the edge of poverty. Not being paid. Losing My Security! Going on a road trip for a company where I have to pay for the hotel room? Why is this person being paid cash daily? Why is my sister giving half of her money away to new employees shouldnt that be the responsibility of the company? Why does my friend live in squalor with 10 people that he works with? Why did Bob turn away from his family when they tried to talk some sense into him? You are going to move across the country with a company and they wont foot ANY of the relocation costs? What kind of out fit is this? How can it be so big? Ive never heard of it before! Sound familiar? Many people come on this site and do not know what ds-max is. Maybe they went for a day of observation, got spooked out and left. They have a friend or family member in the business and are now concerned. Or they just spent a little bit of time with the company and quit and now want to know more. I will attempt to answer all the above questions and more below. This is going to be an attempt to fill in all the gaps. I will explain everything in as detailed a manner I can. For those of you who want to contribute to this go right on ahead. I will do it all in Sections. The sections are as follows: 1 Overview, 2 marketing system, 3 atmosphere and psychology, 4 phrases and terminology, 5 meeting, 6 opportunity, 7 New locations, 8 how an office works, 9 Employment and first interviews, 10 how to take out a day of observation and build a crew, 11 history, 12 Head office - Hubs and VPs, 13 belief system, 14 Regional leaders meetings and 15 the life of a career leader. Through my sections I will attempt to demonstrate 3 things. First how a situation should go in a perfect world, second how it goes in reality and thirdly to give my personal anecdotes. I was not sure what order to put these topics in. If you know a lot about this feel free to skip around. I am trying to explain the business so that some one who has no idea what it is can see why it has such an effect on their loved one. And this is also for people coming out of the business who may not have the words to express how they feel to reflect on what this system has done to them. (You know you have been wronged but you dont quite know how.) You may ask how I know all this. I was with a few different affiliated companies of Ds-max for over 4 years. I have built many crews, done many divisions, helped start many offices, and seen offices close, seen divisions start and fail. I have merched around the US and even one day in Mexico. I was even semi promoted once. I will not disclose my identity or the identities of the managers I worked for. I will say that I have been out of the business about two years now. The main managers I was with I was pretty close too. This is one act of loyalty I will still show them. If I name someone in this report by name, they are widely known through out the organization. And now, on to my attempt to shed some light on Ds-max! 1 Overview Ds-max is a supplier. It gets clients and goods to sell for its member offices. Thousands of offices around the world compose the member offices. A member office is an independent corporation that is set up to sell Ds-max products. Ds-max is a global operation that has offices in most countries throughout the world. In the US alone there are hundreds of such offices. Such independently run corporations remove ds-max from liability. The vast majority of people effected by ds-max never really actually worked for it; the majority that claim to have worked with Ds-max actually worked for an independent corporation licensed to sell DS-max products. There are two other companies talked about a lot. Granton Marketing and Cydcor. They are Listers. A lister is an advertising company that finds clients for another. Granton deals primarily with the advertising division and Cydcor with the communications. Although these companies work closely with ds-max and in some cases have the same people in each one they are separate entities. There are four main divisions of Ds-max. Clearance, Advertising, Roses and Communications. Each division is separate. In a given office you might find a few different divisions run by different people or by the same person. Now I will explain them. The clearance division sells products like toys, books, organizers, bags, key chains, pens, small TVs, and lots more. This is the oldest and largest division of the company. Ds-max has entire factories in the Far East that make cheap products. Since they deal with a lot of volume, they get good prices. These products are shipped to different offices and sold door to door. The Advertising division sells coupons. They contract with restaurants, golf courses, autobody shops, hotels and many other types of business. You pay say 25 dollars for a certificate and you get 30 buy one get one free pizzas at pizza hut, or 4 free oil changes and discounts on auto parts or buy one get one free golf. All divisions sell door to door but the advertising division is the one where it is primarily almost all residential door to door, where as the others is all mostly business to business. The primary company that finds the clients for this division is Granton Marketing. A percentage of each sale goes to them. The roses division sells you guessed it roses! They order large quantities of Roses from growers at whole sale prices and sell them business to business. A guy will sell a dozen roses for $13 dollars. He commission is $3 and he will ask for a tip because he works on commission. They can usually at least get an extra 5 to 10 dollars. Even after the tip it is still a great deal. Communications is the other main one. Ive heard of the westco division and the credit card division and there may be others now. They are spin offs of communications and are pretty much run the same way. Cydcor is the lister. This division has products like ATT, Sprint, Visa, MasterCard, CSI, DTV, Optus and many others. This is the only division where you do not collect money on the spot. You get people to sign up for services, i.e. long distance or a credit card, the application is turned in and then you get paid a few weeks later. To summarize, the chain of ds-max I will give an example. An independently run corporation is set up in a given market. This corporation gets all its products from Ds-max and or cydcor and or granton Marketing. The owner of this corporation will be part of one of the divisions. The owner will pay Ds-max for the merchandise it sells and for some legal and administrative fees and pay his own rent and advertising bills. The owner will run his office according to ds-max principles and guidelines use ds-max propaganda and are in contact with Ds-max quite often. This person will put out ads for people to sell his merchandise. In all the divisions save communications, the recruits will be independent contractors. Communication reps will be commissioned employees. So if Joey, a new rep is selling AT&T and he signs up a customer, he will, as an independent contractor for AT&T, gained AT&T a client, by using the product of his office, which is supplied by Ds-max (but not part of it) and Ds-Max got the client by using Cydcor as the lister. 2 The Marketing System There are five components of the dsmax marketing system. They are the five steps, the eight working habits, the impulse factors and the law of averages. It is all door to door. The five steps: Introduction Short Story Presentation Close Rehash Basically, When you introduce yourself to someone you should smile, make eye contact and be excited to meet him or her. In the short story you explain why you are there. In the presentation you do your pitch, in the close you get the person to consent to buy and in the rehash phase you suggest buying many things to the person. Realize that I could go on a lot more about this I used to do many meetings on each step but I just want people to get the general idea. This formula can be used to sell anything. Of course it does not always go smoothly. There are often questions and interruptions. But these five steps work. The eight working habits Have a great attitude Work your territory correctly Be on time Maintain your attitude Be prepared Know why there and what doing Work full eight hours Take control Consider a day in the field like a work out. Through out the 8-hour day you should always be happy, always focus on your goals, always take control, and always hit every business or residence in your area. You can not leave any of these steps out! If you are working a full 8 hours, but are not maintaining a positive attitude you will not make money and vice versa. If you skip doors behind some of those doors are the yess that could have been part of your law of averages. If you are on time and are prepared, but you do not take control, the customers will walk all over you. The law of averages is based on the number of people you see, some will say yes. Ds-max is not the type of organization that teaches people to make hard sales. If some says no they leave they dont stay and twist arms. So, the rep should always be seeing as many people as possible in a given day. Especially if they dont sell in the morning. Because if they are really applying the law of averages it will catch up with them in the afternoon. It is plain math. If you usually need to see 100 doors to make a sale statistically those doors may not come until the end of the day. You need a full 8 hours for the law of averages to kick in. If a rep only works until one and has not made a sale yet and decides to quit he has no one to blame but him self. But it is easy for a rep to get distracted if they meet a nasty customer, the cops get called or they might run out of territory, or they might just wind up shopping! The impulse factors should be used in conjunction with the five steps. They are Fear of loss where you pretend that you only have a few items left. Indifference where you act like you dont care if they buy or not, Greed where you explain where other people have already purchased and Sense of Urgency where you act like time is almost up. An easy way to remember them is F.I.G.S. Now people, I have said a lot about Ds-max and Cydcor. But I know that this marketing system does work. I did it for four years. I am attempting to educate here. What I mean by that is that if you get an area, and you hustle and work the whole time and you have something that is cheap, not too hard to explain - someone might by you should make some money. This system works all over the world in all languages. But not everyone can do it. It is not for the shy or those who are not fit. Lets go through a typical business to business day. You pick out an area. You hit every business in that area being sure to hit every side street and all the business that are in building. You do not do callbacks. You do not leave cards. This is a buy it now or not at all type thing. Strictly on impulse. Plus, reps do not make that much commission per sale to justify keep going back for the on the fence buyer. In a few weeks another rep will come by the same area (as long as a mapping system is in place. If there is no mapping system there could be a rep with the same product in another hour!) It is important to note here that all transportation in the field is up to the rep. The office will not cover any transportation costs. They tell reps to write all the expenses down and deduct them at the end of the year. So if a guy has a car, he would be wise to get gas money if he is giving someone a ride. Or that person can just pay for bus fare. You might make $80 in profit, but you have to subtract transportation costs. If you hustle and work the whole day, you can make money. You dont pay attention to any negatives like rude people, security officers throwing you out of buildings or people almost about to buy, perhaps even filling out a certificate, and then changing their mind. That is all part of maintaining your attitude and knowing why you are here and what you are doing and working a full 8 hours and working your territory correctly. How to explain the magic of the field to people that have never done it? Just suffice it to say that people go through a lot of interesting situations. You will meet the sweetest people that will feed you and offer you a coke. Or you can meet the receptionist with a power trip that calls security on you along with every other office in the building. You could walk in to a small business that smells like weed and later on pitch a church that just got done with a funeral. They meet the best and the worst of people. They get in weird conversations and situations. Sometimes they strike it rich. Sometimes it is days with out making a dime. Ds-max and the owners try and make it so that it is possible for a rep to earn at least $100 a day. If they are earning more than that the stroke should be adjusted so that they earn $100. If they earn less it should be similarly adjusted. They dont want the guys too rich or too poor. However there are some serious flaws. Not a lot of commission is paid per sale to a rep. This means they must be in a constant state of work to make a buck. Reps can have days when they make good money and days when they make little money. Or they can have days go by when they are on a slump and make practically nothing. The high earning days are often not enough to cover this. 3 Atmosphere and Psychology This is a very important part to the business. Never under estimate it. This is where a person learns about the business, gets rejuvenated about the business and where the manager controls the business. It is the media. The blood of the madness. An owner would say that Atmosphere should be nothing but teaching and learning about the business. Generally, a big room is set aside for people to gather in the morning to practice pitch and learn about atmosphere. There is almost always a dry erase board handy so that a person can draw something to help teach others. Atmosphere happens twice a day. Once in the morning before the meeting, and secondly, in the evening as people get back from the field. Atmosphere is when the owner is on stage. He has to make sure that his office delivers a superior performance to the new people and the leaders or the attitude will slip and then sales will slip. Here are a few rules (in no order of importance): 1) Always get with the guy who made money that day or the day before and learn what he did. 2) Always get with the owner, assistant manager or especially a visiting VP and find out what they did to get ahead. 3) If you are a leader always try and be showing a new person something positive about the business or how to make more money using the marketing system. 4) Tell a merchandising story that has a positive aspect. 5) Isolate or Quarantine from the general populace anyone who does not have a great attitude in atmosphere. 6) Promote your goals that have to do with success through the business. 7) Give recognition to anyone who makes noise or rings the bell (some one who sells a certain amount that day and is privileged to be able to hit a gong or ring a bell or sound off a horn in atmosphere One gives recognition by saying juice or juice by YOU and high fiving the jubilant sales rep. 8) Practice Pitching when everyone gets in little groups and practices going through a pitch. 9) Have games which have to do with pitching or learning about the marketing system. 10) Have loud music. 11) Make new people want to become a part of the family by constantly promoting ds-max in front of them. 12) Promote what an owner wants said about a situation (in leaders meeting a situation may arise about a campaign or a person in the office and the owner can dictate to the leaders how this situation is to be promoted in atmosphere to new people you would be surprised how this works) 13) Have hip loud music playing. This makes people have to speak up in pitch circles and also if a new person says something negative the music will drown it out. The effects of these rules on the mind of the rep are as subtle as silk but get a hard as a vice. The non-leader starts out by seeing everyone having a good time before and after work. But then you become a leader and now you are a thought cop always making sure everyone is acting like they should. You go from genuinely being curious and asking a question as a non-leader to manipulating your guys to ask how to get a head - to constantly regurgitating the same stories to your guys. You believe it and you hope that if you repeat it enough that your guys will too. You go from wanting to get a head in life to coming down hard on any dissension from what should be said in atmosphere. You see, when you start the business, you want a job and you try and fit in. Atmosphere may seem a bit weird but, hey, you need to pay rent. If you last and you become sold on the business you have to act in certain ways. Understand to go door to door for eight plus hours and to make money for you and maybe some else is as much of a mental exercise as a physical one. Attitude is everything. You have to have your thoughts in control. If you are in a bad mood or doubt your self the people will see it and not buy. Being in the field selling door to door is not like being a cashier at 7-11. Going door to door for eight hours means having doors slammed on you, angry people, having someone insinuate you are a crook to your face, you might run out of territory, you might run in to some one else, some might have been there the day before and not marked it, your day of o might have high heels on and want to go home early you name it! So you use atmosphere and all the tools of the office to get yourself and your crew into that selling state. And to be in that rhino state you adopt the whole psychology. If you have been in the business for months you learn that following that psychology will help you make money in the field and get you recognition in the office. Because to run a door to door sales crew Attitude is everything! As leader, you enforce atmosphere. Enforcing Atmosphere as long as I have has made me recognize how important media is to a society. I.E. what gets said, what gets left out, how something is promoted. When you start out learning the business, you have to learn how to sell to eat. To learn to sell, you act like the guys that are doing the job. And who are making the most sales in the office? The guys that take control, that have the best attitudes, that dont let negatives bother them, that follow the 5& 8 to a T and dont vary it are the high producers. You adopt that psychology and pay your bills, or you make no money and be out of a job. By the way one big lie that is often insinuated in many offices in the business that with out Atmosphere, no one would be able to sell anything. That if you leave the business and do your own thing that you will languish in poverty because you will not have atmosphere to rejuvenate you! I guess that is why so many important inventions sell in the world today then because of atmosphere! I wonder what atmosphere was like for Bill Gates or Henry Ford? LOL! Morning atmosphere. You are supposed to arrive and get your merchandise and then attend a meeting. Before the meeting is when atmosphere happens. If you are a leader and are training someone that day and the campaign is a little complicated, atmosphere can be a life saver for you if you make sure to get your trainee pitching and learning so that they are more ready for the field. Evening atmosphere. People should return back from the field after a certain hour. They settle up for what they sold and go home but not so fast. Hang around in the office for a while for atmosphere. If you are new they will not make you hang around too long. The owners and leaders will pull you aside, make sure you didnt have a bad day and are about to quit, get you excited about the next day and then put you on your way. If you are a leader with a crew you should be there for as much of night atmosphere as possible. You have to make sure that if any of your crew had a low paying day that you get with them and get them in the door for the next day. And if they are making ok money then you should be fear of lossing them into wanting to be a leader. After all the new people have gone home, Atmosphere can end and the leaders can go home too. 4 Phrases/Terminology All offices have chants and phrases. Some are specific to the office. This is encouraged as it leads to more unity and fun. Each crew is often encouraged to come up with their own slogan or song. Even a poster. There are also many terms that are organizational. I will touch on what some of them mean later. It is also important to note how these chants, sayings and words will play their part in the organization of the office. When you say a certain word, everyone is trained to say a certain word back. This immediately stops though of other things and gets attention focused on the speaker. For example juice. You say juice and some one should say juice back. So if someone is running a meeting and people are talking in the background the speaker can say juice? and everyone in unison should say juice back. Or you can start a chant, and then everyone will roboticly repeat it and change their thoughts. Because saying juice helps a person to stay in the ds-max mode of thought. It is all kind of like the Pavlovs dog example. A sound is uttered and then people associate a feeling or response to the stimulus. Pavlovs dog salivated at the sound of the bell, when some one says juice you get into a ds-max rhino mode. Here are some sayings: Juice = Join us in creating excitement. This word is a be all end all for DS-max lingo. It demonstrates how reps are supposed to be in an excited, opportunity minded state. To follow this program, you have to be positive. To get people you never met to buy from you on the spot you have to be in a positive state of mind. If someone says juice? to you, you should say juice! back. Juice by you = congratulations Juice by that = well done 9 to 5 schmuck = some one that has a 9 to 5 job. This person is lazy, has his life controlled by a boss, will be laid off, has no sense of goals or directions and is too secure in their poor existence to try and get a head in life. Rhino = A ds-max poster child. Someone that has a great attitude, can build a crew, overcome any negative, is looking for long term success in the business and can do the marketing system to the T. Impact = A small mini meeting that happens before the main meeting in the morning. A respected leader or someone that is consistent in production, or that did well the day before selects one aspect of the marketing system and talks about that for a few minutes. Meeting = A 10 to 30 minute gathering that happens every morning. The resident owner goes over who did well the day before, promotes people to leadership and talks about something to get the reps excited to go out in the field to sell. It should be motivational. But sometimes they are fear of loss meetings. Day of O = For day of observation. A job applicant. This person has been told that he is going to be teamed up with someone to spend an unpaid day in the field so that they can be evaluated and that they in turn can evaluate the company. It is up to the leader to decide if he wants the person and to be able to convince the person to take the job. Hey Guys?! = If some one shouts this Hey What?! = Then everyone responds with that. It is a way to get everyones attention for a meeting. If someone is trying to say something or make a point they can yell out the hey guys and get everyone to respond back hey what. There is a lot of noise going on in the office. Plus, sales men all like to get attention. So this is one way to get everyone on the same page. A good owner will train the leaders to respond with the hey what statement. High roller speech = If you do well in production the day before, it will be announced in the following morning meeting. You might be privileged to speak a bit about how you made good money. If you are a good leader, you should think before hand about what you are going to say. You want the owner to think well of you so that you will get a good day of O for your team. Usually this means picking a step from the marketing system that worked well for you, telling a story about how having a great attitude saved you and then finish by saying how you want to accomplish a ds-max related goal like get promoted in 3 months or something like that. Having nothing to say would only be excusable for a new leader other than that you would just look sloppy. If you have a new person on your crew that is going to be speaking be sure to get with that person before hand and tell them what and what not to say! If the person says something anti-dsmax while doing a highroller speech in front of everyone expect to hear about it from the owner! If a new person starts talking out of turn up there, the leaders will start clapping their hands and saying, juice. The negative person will be drowned out by the noise and come to realize that we all think he was done with his speech and to get back in the semi-circle 5 The meeting To recap, our people have arrived on time and received their consignment of goods (be it boxes of tweety birds or an AT&T book). People have been in atmosphere a bit now practice pitching, learning the five steps. May be a leader is at the dry erase board with a marker explaining how to solicit in a high rise building with out getting easily caught (something yours truly was pretty good at!) The music has been blaring all morning and hopefully the owner has good taste. If he is a smart owner he will not let the young kids start playing offense rap music that will alienate the women and scare off his more professional recruits. But that is not always the case! It is time to get the people going but first they must be even more hyped up. Hey guys some yells out. Hey what the people yell back Do you want a meeting? and on it goes. First is a 5-minute impact where a leader or someone near leadership will share some knowledge on an aspect of the marketing system. (A little foot note here. In an office that is thriving with many high earning leaders competition for the right to do an impact is fierce! On the other hand, you might be in an office that is brand new, or is in a slump and then you might be doing ALL the impacts. Then you feel like an impact whore and just wish that some one would give you a rest. Because what if you had a bad day now you are going to go up in front of everyone and tell them how to do it? I have been in both situations. If I have a new person starting that day I always tried to be the one doing the impact.) He will finish with a hey guys and then get everyone to call out for a meeting. The owner or assistant manager will now do a 10 to 30 minute schpeal. The production from the day before will be gone over. He will announce the people that did well. The high roller speeches will be given. Now the owner will pick something to talk about to motivate the guys. It could be about a personal story, a new campaign, success in the business, an inspirational story. Then there is the close. And then it is out in the field. 6 The Opportunity Ok. Joey the new guy is doing pretty well. He was taken out by his faithful leader and a few others to learn a campaign. He got it. He got put out on his own and what do you know! he is making ok money. Now his leader wants to try and make Joey get into leadership. But he can not make him. Joey has to WANT to become a leader. So that is when Joeys faithful leader and all the other sold individuals will really start to promote the opportunity of the business. They will talk about things like how much money an owner makes, being financially independent, how they want to work hard while they are young so that they can retire rich, where they want to open an office, how much money other owners are making, success storys in the business. This is all normal talk for atmosphere. But for our friend Joey, the pressure is on. Joey must be made to really want leadership. To be always asking other leaders and the owner whatever it is he must do to be a leader. May be he will be told to memorize G.A.R.L.I.C. To have a Great Attitude, be Responsible, have Income and to do all this on a Consistent basis. An important first step is for Joey to attend an opportunity meeting. It will take place either before or after work. It will be made to seem like Joey has to be invited to attend it. The reality is that the poor owner is praying that enough people will actually show up. But Joey must be in a state where he is dying to hear how to get a head. And then, the resident manager will make his pitch. Now people, I have never given an opportunity meeting. But I sure have seen enough of them. I will not make this a complete one. A lot of what is covered in an opportunity meeting I am covering in other areas of this report. I am writing it like this to try and explain to the lay person what kind of state people get put in to hear this meeting. How the choreography goes. You dont simply present something like this right up front to a job applicant. Ds-max wants people to hear this that have been in the business for a little bit. That knows that there is a possibility of making money in the field. It is for people that have a little bit of faith in the business not necessarily sold so that they can be hooked in more. So I will just give a meeting. Here is the setting. There is a room that the company uses for morning meetings. There is no table to sit at. All the meetings are held around a dry erase board while people are standing. But on this occasion, there are chairs for the new people and the leaders. The new people of the office are there. They are made to feel like it is a privilege to be invited. The leaders are most often there too. The leaders are there to get re-indoctrinated and to provide vocal support for the owner. They will do this by saying juice at the right moment are asking a question about ds-max that the owner can answer in a favorable manor to help impress this new crop of recruits. The meeting is really a show. A presentation. A commercial. The owner is selling the opportunity to new hires. So he will do his best to set the stage to his advantage. For once, the music will be turned off and chairs will be set up in front of a dry erase board. Leaders will be invited to attend. A good owner will get the leader to ask a question that will allow him to promote the business i.e. q How many offices are there? A 15000 spread around the world and there is room for 1000s more! The new people have been made to feel special for being selected to hear this meeting. May be there is some food and drinks. The stage is now set. The owner will now explain what ds-max, cydcor, granton marketing and his company are. (I covered all this in Overview see that section if you need it gone over again.) He will then go into the advantages of marketing door to door to try and get the new hires to see a broader picture on what they do. He can talk about how his business is not paying huge bills to get people to visit something via television or radio. How word of mouth is so much better a system than mail. The manager will promote why it is better all around to be paid strictly on performance by his clients. (Whether or not a rep makes a sale determines the amount of money received by a client.) He will mention how even if a person does not buy a certificate or sign up for a service, at least they have heard about the product and may sign up for the company on his own, or later on buy from another rep. It is promoted how everyone in the office has such better attitudes than regular 9 to 5 people and how much the public is impressed by the professionalism of ds-max. An owner can explain that if someone pays for a commercial, the viewer can change the channel or not even be home to see it. How people throw junk mail out with out reading it. But then he go into detail about how effective his advertising is by hitting every single door in a given area and how his reps cant be turned off or thrown out like an add. He may talk about how reps brighten everyones day. Now the owner will start to mention growth and expansion. It will be mentioned that more locations are desperately needed to handle their clients, that more managers are needed to run them! He will usually make the following comments in his word: That he would rather have a consistent person dedicated person than an inconsistent person, that he wants manager that can run offices not sales people. He will mention that sales people just help him pay his bills. That an office he can promote out will make him a lot more money. So now the reps are intrigued. Dont they want to be a manager and run offices? They arent just measly sales people are they? Because if they are or the manager thinks they are they will be viewed as chumps in the office. The owner will now explain how to get to management. You get promoted to leadership. To do that you have consistent production, you have a great attitude in and out of the office, you display leadership qualities and you do all this on a consistent basis. You have to be able to prove that you can retrain some one. (Ill get into that later) Plus you must always be asking the manager and the other leaders in the office how to get to leadership. (After all this is your financial independence we are talking about here right? Shouldnt you always be asking someone who is doing the job how to do it?) Now when you are a leader you win the right to build a crew. To do this, you take out a day of observation, close them, retrain them and get them to leadership. 5 times. You need to get 5 leaders on your team. Plus, these leaders must be able to build crew too. If one of your guys puts someone on his crew, that would be your second generation. Ideally you want to shoot for at least 10-15 people on your crew. At least 5 must be first generation leaders and the rest will be some 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation guys and of course your first generation that are not yet leaders. You need a big crew to be able to hit a production level that is usually set by the manager. So the requirements are 1) the five-generation leaders 2)-crew size 3) having your crew hit the production requirement. When you do those things, you will be an assistant manager. You will stay in the office, do interviews, learn the paperwork and save money. Save about 10 grand. You are paid an override off your big crew now. When you have the money saved, you get a territory, an office, furniture, and your first and last months rent paid, take any on your crew willing to go and open up your deal. What will happen is that you will have an independent corporation formed for you. You will be president of this corporation. Then, you and your corporation are entitled to sell products that Ds-max and or Cydcor or Granton Marketing gives you. No loans. No MBA. You pay for ads and rent. You will now do interviews all day to get days of observations for your leaders in your office. It is promoted that you will make a 6-figure income. You do a meeting, your guys go out an make you money, have some atmosphere and then you laugh all the way to the bank. If you have 20 guys going out in the field and they all make money, you just made yourself a nice bit of change that day! Let us take note here. There is never a direct tie here from the independently formed corporation and its suppliers. If the fledgling corporation does well great Ds-max and the powers that be will get their money. If the office misrepresents products, if the people in the office commit any crimes, then Ds-max and the products escape all liability. I.e. a representative in a cydcor office signs up a business for AT&T long distance. He wants some extra money so he gets the owner of the business to agree to having an 800 number with out explaining the charges adequately. Months later the customer complains. The responsibility can only fall on the rep that has probably already quit. Cydcor is contracted by AT&T, which is contracted by DS-max, which has contracted the office that the rep worked out of. I recently heard about an advertising office in Texas that sold too many buy one get one free certificates to a restaurant. The restaurant chose to no longer honor the certificates. A restaurant wants such certificates sold a bit a way from their location. This office has reps selling the certificates within the same vicinity. If the office does not do well, another can be put in and the Manager will have to go out in the field again and build another crew. Offices fail! What happens if all the guys quit? How is the owner going to pay for advertising bills, phones and rent? What can make the guys quit? A tough new campaign, an unchecked leaders and or owners that always try and sleep with all the women, favoritism of an owner to a leader so that he gets all of the days of observations, an owner that underpays his reps (remember it is HIS independently owned corporation), another nearby office with your campaign going into your territory, the inability of an owner to motivate his guys to go through the program because of personality, burn out or disillusionment and I can go on and on. Or the owner could lose a campaign. If the campaign that the owner had is fairly easy, his reps may not be able to handle a tougher one. Or they may not be given another campaign just told to up and move in an area where they can work. Many offices fail the first year. And then it is back to your promoting manager or a into a VPs office and then you start building a crew again. It is widely promoted that those who get shut down the first time and do it again are the strongest. But that is if they can ever do it again. These guys still often owe money on leases, phone bills and pay to former distributors. Ok now, back to our opportunity meeting. Hold on! Our new reps think. What is the catch? May be a leader will pipe up in the back and say something like why dont you just take the city for yourself or what is the catch The owner is only too happy to reply. An owner makes a portion of the sales of each office that he promotes out. (Not 2nd or 3rd generation offices just 1st) The owner gets this override from ds-max. When the promoting office pays ds-max for the product it sells, a portion of that money is paid to the promoting owner. For example, lets say a certificate sells for 10 dollars in the field. The rep will get 5 dollars, the owner 3 and head office 2. Lets say that the promoting managers cut is 1 dollar. Head office will pay the promoting manager 1 dollar out of the 2 it got. So, an owner can make 10 grand a year off a good outside deal. If an office has about 20 reps a piece and they are all selling and he gets a piece of each sale it is not hard to imagine how you can get 10 grand to the promoting owner. If you put out say 2 outside deals that is 20 extra grand a year you get on top of what you make while running your office? Sounds good huh? Juice!!!!! Exclaim all the leaders present. Maybe even some of the new people are starting to say juice along with them. But wait - it gets better! Guess what happens when you promote out 5 first generation deals and are doing a certain volume in your organization? You become a regional manager with more clout AND your overrides off your first generation deals double! Furthermore if you put out at least 7 first generation deals, and have 2 seconds and have a certain amount of production you will be a vice president! This means a $250,000 base salary, plus overrides on all your deals, plus the income from the office you run. The leaders should all be hooting and hollering saying juice and claiming that that is where they will be in five years. The new people are flushed with joy at thinking about how they too could be able to get those goals and cant believe there luck at being part of this wonderful origination. Let us not leave out how the big shots will be promoted. Murray Reinhardt, various vice presidents, all will be given as examples of how you can go from rags to riches through this wonderful program. Now it is up to the manager to get this dream instilled in his guys. To have them get them to devote all they have to getting to VP, for their own financial independence and his. See why Atmosphere and meetings are so important now? In Atmosphere, as well as going over the pitch, you constantly go over this opportunity for financial independence. Reps are encouraged to visualize their new office to preselect what they want to call their corporation even put it on a crew poster. So if you have a leader on a slump that just lost his crew again that leader will hang on. Why? Because for countless times they have heard about how VPs and regional manager went through multiple crews and ate ramen noodles and stuck it through and now make the big money. It is promoted how you may have to build crews a few times, how only a few that are tough will make it. It is promoted that to succeed; the rep must close the door on any thought of quitting and just give there all to the business. 7 New locations Let us suppose our Rhino friend builds a crew and finishes being an assistant manager. Now it is off to a new location. Ideally, an owner would like to have his own place. But, especially in a city like LA or New York, rent is expensive, and more often than not it makes sense to rent space from an existing owner. The new business will get his new corporation, some merchandise and move in. The 10 grand he has been saving goes to his first and last months rent. The ads get put out. An administrator that makes about 7 dollars an hour is hired. Her job is to answer the phone all day for the many ads that will be place and reps will call from the field from time to time. The new manager will now run his office exactly like his promoting manager. IF the new owner is with an existing one, it can go very well or very bad. Right off the bat, recruiting gets affected. Some of the new days of observation that come in have to go to the new owner and that has to be worked out. Several disputes have erupted where one owner feels that he has been given all the poor quality recruits while another owner gets the smart ones. Rent is an issue. Some existing owners are fair about it; some gouge the new guy. The reality is a lot of new businesss fail. So, if a roses owner lets a communications owner rent part of his office space and he fails, he still might owe phone bills or paychecks to his guys. It is the Roses owner whose name is on the lease and he will be held accountable for all unpaid ads and utility bills. He will not be responsible for paying the communications guys, but it will be frustrating for him because especially if they are new, they may not believe he is in fact a separate business from the communications guy. The unpaid guys might try to cause problems for his office. On the other hand, there are several stories of great friendships that exist between people that partner up in locations. Partnering up is good if the owners have different types of campaigns. Starting an office will depend a lot on the personality of the owner. If the owner has a magnetic personality, then many people will want to go with him - even people that are not on his crew. If the owner has become a prick while being an assistant manager, or just has never had a great rapport with others, no one will want to follow him into his deal. Another thing is if the new owner has several people that have kids and/or strong family ties in the area. They will not uproot all that on a whim and a prayer. On the other hand you can have a greedy promoting manager that does not want to give a new owner too many people to start out with. I have seen cases where only one or two guys are allowed to go with a new owner in his new location. How is a new owner supposed to pay for ads and rent with just two distributors? This will translate into the new owner going out in the field to help pay bills and hire people. Some promoting managers let a new owner start with many people and will also cover housing costs for the guys for one month. When it comes down to it, the new owner will take some of the reps from the office to his new office. Some will be from his crew and some will not be. That is one benefit to retraining people off of your crew. You can bond with them and they might want to follow you to your place. 8 How an office works Consignment and strokes. Offices sell products door to door. Different campaigns pay varying amounts. For example, this is how a certificate in advertising worked in 2000. (I know the amounts are different now.) It sold for $20. The rep keeps $9. The owner keeps 5. The rest goes to ds-max. Some of that will go to Granton and some will go to the promoting manager. In 2000, this is how an AT&T application worked. A rep signs up a customer for long distance. Then he takes the application in to his office and the office FedExs the application to corporate. AT&T pays Cydcor a certain amount for the long distance. Cydcor takes a cut for itself and pays ds-max. Ds-max takes a cut for itself and pays the owner. The owner pays the rep and keeps a cut for himself. A document bag might sell for $10 dollars. The rep will keep 4, the owner will keep 3 and dsmax will get 3. With a Cydcor office, the reps are all employees and the owners can tell them when and where to show up. All other divisions are independent contractors. This means they can not be required to attend any meeting. The only thing that an owner can control is when they can pick up and drop off his merchandise. Also, it promoted that if you just want to be a lousy salesman and help the owner pay his bills, you can just take your merchandise and go. But if you want to get in the management program and thereby be well on your way to financial independence, you will attend all the meetings and atmosphere so that you can learn. See the catch 22 here? Here is a day in the office. An office usually has a reception area, an office for the manager, another for an assistant manager or another owner, a meeting room and then a room where the merchandise is stored under lock and key. (Especially in the clearance division- corporate wants to make sure you have a security system. All owners are encouraged to have a safe because a lot of cash is collected daily in most offices.) The top leaders and owner arrive first. On goes the stereo. It is important that the owner keep the music somewhat tasteful if he wants to retain professional people! (Some young men given a chance will play nothing but harsh rap with terrible language!) Consignments and merch are prepared. People arrive in the morning, get their order of goods to sell that day and then join atmosphere. If you arrive late it is very much frowned upon. An owner has to be sure about rides and territory and who is getting a day of observation. Late people delay all this; Which means the meeting starts later, which means that the guys get less time in the field which means everyone makes less money. All because a clueless retrain didnt want to get out of bed! After atmosphere comes the meeting. Then it is leaders in the office. If you are a new person on your own, head out in the field. After the leaders meeting the leaders head out in the field with their retrains and their days of observations. During the day the manager will do his production reports, cover any bills and conduct interviews. The administrator will be by the phone taking calls. In the evening the guys will come back from the field. Settle ups will happen. (An accounting for what was and was not sold in the field. If you are in a division like clearance or advertising your merchandise had better not be in bad condition or be missing or you will have to pay for it.) Night atmosphere happens. People that make good money that day will ring a bell and get recognition from everybody. (God forbid you are the leader that did not high five a new person that rang the bell that night!) When all the reps are in and the new people have gone home the office closes. 9 Employment ads and first interviews The all-important lifes blood of an office is recruiting. This is a door to door sweatshop sales job. Turn over rate is high. You need a constant supply to survive. The owner will put ads in a few different forms of media. It is usually the main local paper, monster.com, and then one or two side publications. The ads will be vague. They will mention something like management opportunity, new locations, customer service, call here if you are not making at least $10 an hour. The ad will instruct them to call the office to set up an appointment and to ask for a specific individual. When the applicants call and ask for a person, the administrator will know what ads they are responding too. By doing this the owner can decide if he wants to continue to finance a certain medium or if one type of add is working better in his market than others. The administrator will now book them in for an interview. She will pretend to not know much at all about the position and claim that specific questions can only be answered by the manager. Can they come in today or tomorrow? She will write the time down. When an applicant comes in for an interview she will have them sit and fill out some personal information and then give the info to the manager. To start off, the manager has the attitude that You are looking for the job, and I have one, so what can you offer me? The manager will now see them for a very quick interview. The manager will now explain a bit about what the company does. Only when pressed might they admit that what they do is door to door sales. He will mention word of mouth advertising and mention some of the great clients that ds-max has like Disney, AT&T and the Yankees. He will ask the candidate some general questions. He needs to determine if this is the type of person that will ruin his leaders attitude if set up on a day of observation or if this person might meld well with a certain leader in his office. (All in 5 to 10 minutes.) If the manager thinks the person might be open minded and stick it out he will invite them for a full day interview called a day of observation. He will let the candidates know that it is a full day and that it is unpaid. He will usually tell them to wear comfortable shoes. If the candidate starts to ask a barrage of tough questions and the manager feels like he is in too much of a defense mode he will not invite them back. It is better that a candidate go off on the manager in private than to have a leader have his day ruined by an irate job candidate. The candidates that get invited back for a second interview are told to show up about when the morning meeting will finish in the morning, to look professional, keep an open mind, be prepared for a full work day and to wear comfortable shoes. 10 How to take out a day of Observation and build a crew I have had to explain this a lot in my time. I have had many people on my crew. Also, I always made sure to let orphans know what to do (a new leader whose leader toasted) Often enough a guy would get to leadership and his leader would not even tell him how to go about this! This shocked me. So I always felt it my duty to bring people up to speed. I have not gone over this with someone in two years. So here is one last time. I hope I am not too rusty! You should have a territory picked out to work the night before. If you have a car, you are set. Make sure your car is clean so as not to disgust your day of O. If you dont have a car, then you should make sure there is room and have a ride in advance before the morning meeting. You should not keep a new applicant waiting for any time at all in the morning. As a leader you should always be bugging the manager to train. If you have been making ok money, and being a good guy to make atmosphere and impacts happen, then you should be given a day of observation by your manager. Especially if you made good money the day before. After the morning meeting, the leaders all go in the office to meet with the manager. This is when the manager will get mean if something needs to get corrected. He will usually never lose his cool in front of the new people. So if the office looks sloppy, or not enough people are in pitch circles, or a new guy ran out of territory and then went into someone elses and ruined another new persons day this is where it gets brought up. Leaders that are doing well get complimented and maybe some important news about campaigns are gone over. Then people are picked to get the Day of O. There is a lot of controversy over what is and what is not said to a day of observation. Any manager I have worked with has always made it clear to a person that the day is unpaid and that it is a full day. But I worked mainly with Cydcor and more professionalism was needed. In clearance, where there are no fortune 500 companies that could be upset, I have heard horror stores where an ad for a ware house worker is posted, and then wham bam the poor guy finds himself on a day of observation! Anyway, the candidate gets a chance to evaluate the company and the leader is to evaluate them FOR the company. They are usually told to wear comfortable shoes. It is just hell for a leader to get a day of observation that is a woman wearing high heals! They always get blisters and usually cant walk after half the day. Such women usually say that they had no idea to where comfortable shoes or that they did hear to where comfortable shoes but did not take it seriously and wanted to look professional with the heals. (But that does not help you because now they are sitting on a bench massaging there blister while your law of averages to a sale is being taken away!) When you meet a day of o you should be very pleasant, smile and automatically take control. You take the attitude that YOU are evaluating them and that they have to impress you! (Because if you dont they will walk all over you!) Make sure they are parked in a good area; make sure they understand that it IS for a full day. Off you go. So you are in the car now and it is time to prepare them for the negatives of going door to door. You let them know that there you have been given an area to cover. That it is too hard to set up appointments with everyone. People are not there, or are busy and you could not possible meet everyone at the appointed time. So all you will do is walk in, see if anyone is interested in what you have and if not go. This is not a time to press for people to buy. You can explain the law of averages. IE Explain that you are going to see maybe one hundred doors today and that maybe only 5 people will sign up for what you have. My point is you want to get this guy prepared to go door to door and to take the pressure off of yourself. This guy is now not expecting to see a sale so the pressure is off you. If the day of O asks about compensation you defer it to later. I usually said that that was a question for the manager in the final interview. You dont want to talk about money until you have made some sales. You should ask a whole bunch of questions to the day of o. Find out what he likes and dislikes. What he is motivated for or running away from? If it is an older guy talk about management. If it is a kid talk about learning and growth. If the guy hates being in a cubicle then promote the fresh air. If she likes international business talk about how many countrys ds-max is in. Now you go through the day. The person does not have to speak just to watch. You go through the day. Hopefully you will make a few sales by lunch. You buy the day of o lunch out of your own pocket. It is then that you can let the day of o know how much money you have made (I liked to make sure I had at least 60 dollars). If you feel a rapport going tell them to write down the 5 and 8 and let them know about the quiz before the interview. (I used to have fun with this! I loved watching them freak out and scramble to remember everything I said) Finish the day. Hopefully you will make at least one hundred dollars. At the end of the day you go back to office and have a chat. If you mutually like each other you can promise to try and get the person hired tonight. Before the person goes to meet the manager you need to know two things 1) will they start the next day and 2) will they give this one hundred percent. You take their number, seat them in the lobby to take the quiz and then go talk with the manager, You tell the manager that you want them and then usher them in. They get hired and then you see them off! THAT NIGHT it is critical that you call the person at home to congratulate them. They will go home and face the negatives of their family. May be the boyfriend will flip, or maybe his Mom will get upset. This is your time to turn around all that. (If it happens) All you do is call and say hey X I just wanted to let you know that I had a great time working with you today and that I am looking forward to working with you tomorrow. If some one is pressuring them to quit they will usually bring it up there. If not they will thank you and you will hang up and that is that. Now I will mention some reality here! It can be a mental and physical struggle to keep a day of observation with you the whole day! Many leave leaders standing in the parking lot! Some will leave right when you get into the field. Then you have to come back and drop them off! Remember how I mentioned before how important it is to let them know that it will be a full day before you leave? Some will suddenly remember a doctors visit; some will flat out say they wont do door to door. Some will call a family member to pick them up; others will catch a bus. Some will high tail it away from you to another job interview. Some guys will not take a person back. They say hey I said it was a whole day and you knew that up front. Ill get you at the McDonalds at the end of the day. Some leaders will give a guy bus fare back to the office. It can be a particularly trying experience on a person to try and close someone if you did make a sale that day. I have done it! But more often than not that is the end of the story. And the reality is many day of observations that get hired will just never show up again the next day. Now on to retraining. I always like to say there are 3 types. There is a full day, a half-day and a check up day. Retraining makes a person a stronger merchandiser. You teach a stranger how to follow the 5 and 8. You come to realize that it must be followed exactly and that you cant cheat it. That if you teach a person the 5 and 8 they will make money. The full day is for a new person or someone who is on a serious slump. Atmosphere saves you here. Make sure your guy learns as much of the pitch as possible. Especially for a first day person take the pressure off. Say I dont care if we dont make any sales today this is a learning day for you. You saw me do well yesterday right? Well now we need to take some time today to get you up to my level or better ok? Ideally it should be you who trains your guy on his first day. Who can you trust more? This is the most critical day for a new guy and you want to make sure that he learns right. You pitch most of the morning. Then slowly start to get them to do some of the five steps. Have them do the introduction then you jump in with the short story. Then have them get farther and farther. You must teach them the pitch, and also to interact. They should be smiling, they should know how to answer questions, to learn to engage the people in conversations. You should teach the people to relax and just have fun. A rep that is in a bad mood or under pressure will not be received well by people in the field. Some reps will be ready to go after just a bit. Others will need a full day retrain again the next day. Having a person being able to go alone also depends on what type of campaign it is. Something complicated like AT&T where you are looking at phone bills you need the guy by you more. Something easy like clearance come on! But also, the new person needs to learn how to have a great attitude from the leader. New people learn not get offended by rude people and just walk away, to turn rebuttals around. And work ethic! You have to hustle and see a lot of doors with a retrain because they may not work as hard with out you to motivate them. At the end of the day, if they have not already, try and have them do a few doors alone. A lot of bonding can come on retrains. You give of yourself to a stranger to help them succeed. Plus you are both going door to door and in that kind of environment you just never know what is going to happen next. You hire a guy teach them watch them grow and go on their own. You feel like a parent. So when they toast it hurts. You should not show that it hurts. Officially you should promote that that is just helped your law of averages to help you getting people that will stick. But that is not how you really feel. You always wonder how they are or what they are doing. (Not with all of them of course just the ones that believed in you, that stayed with you the longest, that you bonded with.) Often enough a person will not show up after a first day retrain after you have paid them! This hurts. Usually you are the one that makes the money on a first day retrain and you are paying them for learning. And then to not have them come again! You feel cheated. You wind up wishing that you had never hired them! At least you could understand it if it was a day when no money was made. But after a profitable day! Now you start to learn that you have to try and be careful about whom you hire, and that guys may tell you one thing but may be doing another. You chalk it up as a learning experience and as law of averages and you move on. The second type of retrain now. This is for a second or third day person some one who can do the pitch but still needs to get in the flow. This will mainly be an observation retrain for you. You will spend half the day doing doors together, and then continually meet up in the afternoon. The person will pitch the first 5 or so doors and all you will do is watch and not say anything. You evaluate. It is amazing how much you can learn about a person by just shutting up and giving them your full attention. If the person is doing fine great. If not then let them know what they need to do. Is the short story before the introduction? Are they letting a person ask something or roboticly continuing on with the presentation? Is there eye contact or lack of a smile? Are they fidgeting? They can now watch you pitch a little. It is best to separate once they make a sale. For the second part of the day keep meeting up after every few doors. You need to be sure that the person still has a great attitude and has not had some negative experience that has made them want to quit. People can be quite nasty to door to door sales people and this person is new and may not have reflexes on what to say or how to act. The third type of retrain. This is just to check up on a person. This person is on their own. Generally you want to go out with a guy on you crew after there first day, the first week, first month and then just every once in a while. Many offices have team days on Mondays where everyone is teamed up. Make sure they are doing and saying everything correctly. Are they skipping doors? Not saying restrictions? Are they smoking in front of customers? Do the first few doors together and meet up every 30 to 45 minutes through out the day. Every once in a while do some doors together. Have fun. I know it may seem incomprehensibly cruel to some people, but some leaders do not spend any time in doors with their retrains. Some leaders will just tell the person that they will meet up at the end of the day. Maybe they will take the time to listen to a pitch or two. It is very important to send out some with a leader that you trust! I have spent a good deal of time here explaining how a retrain can be done. Often enough it is not just followed. The new rep will usually not come back after a day of such treatment. Paying a retrain. I always wanted to make sure that a guy earned at least 40 dollars. Hopefully they make the money on their own! But guess what if they didnt then you had better kick in! I always felt it was a matter of pride to make sure that a guy I took out made money that day. Often enough, If we did not make money, I would pay the guy money from what I had out of my pocket. Some people evenly split the earnings of a day. I usually did that but I rarely sent a retrain home with over 100 dollars if it was I doing all the work. It is up to a leader to decide what he will pay a retrain. A good owner will have standards in his office. There are leaders out there who will not pay a new guy. If a new guy of yours is set up with such a character you need to be on the ball and make sure your guy get some money! After all you will be expected to pay that leaders new guy if you take him out right? I would like to add that it can get pretty interesting when you have to take out a day of observation AND a retrain at the same time. I have always hated taking out a first day retrain and a day of O. They are both so new and you cant leave them alone together or they might talk together and get each other to quit. This means you cant go to the bathroom all day. Because after you come back they greet you with that silence and you know that you wont see either of them the next day. If you find out that you are taking a day of O and a retrain at once you must think quick. You have to find your retrain and pull him aside QUICK before you get introduced to the day of o. You have to tell your retrain that he is not to answer the new guys questions, that that is your job. MAKE THAT CLEAR! A retrain thinks they know everything and starts to do a leaders job and can toast a day of observation quicker than snap crackle pop. Then I like to make it clear to the retrain that most of my attention will be focused on them. This day of observation has not even made a commitment yet and you dont even know if you want to work with them; But that the retrain HAS already committed and that that is more important to you. Now on to crew building. Based on the number of day of observations you take out, some will stay. You could go through a spell that last months of not having a crew. Or you might be the type that never loses one. You might always just have a few people and never grow from there. You should always keep track of your crews production. If any on your crew are near a bonus for hitting a weekly goal, you should try and motivate them to hit it. You also need to know this so that you can help them to earn more money if they are not earning anything. To help them by getting them on a retrain or in with a talk with the manager or what ever. When your crew is new you always want to make sure they are with your self or a trusted leader in atmosphere. A negative person might influence your guy to quit. You should be setting up your guys retrain with the manager before the meeting. You should train them the most but it is good for them to see the style of another leader that you trust. Then you can return the favor to the leader another time. It might happen that you have two new people starting at once. You should only try and do one retrain at a time - but some people can handle it! I could not. The retrains just would not get the attention they need from me. I know this from painful experience. Sometimes you are in an office and you can not trust any of the other leaders with your guy. Some might be lechers, or on a slump, or have bad work ethic. You dont want to have your second day retrain out in the field with a leader that will get stoned at lunch!!! This has happened to me! Of course I only found out after the fact days later! Other times everyone will refuse to take out your guy. This might be because they are on slumps, or have court or what ever. But this really hurts if you were the guy that helped retrain them or one of their guys! You are to be in atmosphere when your guys come in the morning and when they return from the field at night. You are to be there to see if there is anything wrong with their attitudes, to make sure they settle up, have a territory, understand the campaign and go over their goals. At least once a week you should try and have crew meeting. It can be before or after work. I preferred after work at a pizza hut. At these meeting you try and go over goals and get people to want to be leaders with out looking like you are ramming it down their throats. Getting a crew meeting together can be like pulling hair! They are already coming to two atmospheres, a day in the field and a morning meeting and now this? But you do not want to be seen as the leader in the office that is not getting with his guys, does not have a crew name, a crew poster and is not excited about getting to the top! Once a week there are leaders meetings. And after the morning meeting, the leaders go in the managers office to meet with him. These are the time to bring up if you think that you have a guy who is near leadership! All the leaders and the manager should then work on trying to get this guy to want to get a head by desperately striving for leadership. This will be done by constantly promoting the benefits of ownership and being a VP to this guy. He will be encouraged to ask all the leaders and the owner how to succeed in the business. If all goes well he will get promoted as long as he is making ok money and keeps a great attitude. If your guy hires on people you should try and help him retrain. After all, they will not count as your first generation, but their production counts in your crew production. And if your leader quits, his first generation guys will now be your first generation. Every Sunday, you need to call your crew. Why? They have the weekend to think about quitting! You need to make sure you have a crew come Monday morning! You dont make it long. You just call and say Hi X, this is Y. Just wanted to wish you a good weekend! How are you? Well I am looking forward to seeing you tomorrow! Have a good night! Bye! You all just have no idea how well this works! You might have a girl swearing she will never darken the office door again but then that call will get her in for another week and help your owner pay his rent. Here is a summary of crew building. You hire them. You get them set up on retrains until they are ready to go on their own. You watch over them like big brother in atmosphere. You record production. You always make sure that leadership and success in ds-max is promoted that the pitch is gone over, and that they are participating in the chanting. When ready, you get them to beg for leadership from all other leaders and the owner. You have weekly crew meetings and call them on Sundays. You help your leaders build their crew and treat their guys like they are your own that goes with all of your generations be it 2nd, 3rd, 4th or whatever. And now for a little reality. I have been through many crews. Some guys last years, others for just a day or a week. You can never tell off the bat who will stay and who will toast. You always need to monitor your crew. You need to make sure they are not hanging out with bad people in the office. There are some cases where a person will build a big crew, get negged out, quit, and get the whole crew to quit with them. Some will identify with another leader in the office besides you. They will still be on your crew, but in heart really be with another leader. And the reverse is true. I have been through both situations. It is important to have good working relationships with the other leaders so that you can help each other out is situations like this. A real slap in the face for me was to have a guy get fired. Managers are willing to make money off of just about anybody as long as they treat others with respect and represent the campaigns accurately. When someone I hired was fired for those reasons I took it personally. Leaders get desperate to build crews and they hope that guys will act like they should. This is not always the case. One guy I had fraudulently signed up non-existent customers on new campaign! Another guy I adopted could not be trusted to act with any kind of professionalism around a female! A second generation guy I had was rude to customers forcing them to sign up for AT&T services they did not want and he doctored applications to make it look they ordered things they never wanted! There are no background checks with Ds-max affiliated offices. With the amount of turnaround and recruiting that they do how could they possibly afford it? Bad guys do get discovered but only after they hurt some one or some thing. On the flip side there are a good deal of owners out there who will not fire a guy that is a bad apple if he is making good money! It takes courage to fire a guy if he is paying half of your rent! Some guys will quit on you because their loved ones might complain or for the hours or because they are not making any money. But crews do get built. How else could the company have spread around the world? 11 The History as it was explained to me. It is probably very different but this is how most people probably here it. The year is 1980 and the place is Toronto Canada. A 26 year old Murray Reinhart was involved in a company similar to ds-max where promotion to an office is based just on sales. This company had the 5 & 8 and law of averages as its marketing system. Something happened and all the Canadian offices had to be shut down. If you did not relocate to the US you were out of a job. Murray was living out of his car. He formed what became DS-max. It was Murray who put in the concept of having five leaders to be promoted. He felt discriminated by the company he worked with because he is half black and half Jewish. He felt that if he formed a company where promotion was built on teaching people, that the discrimination he experienced would largely be eliminated. He started by buying goods from wholesalers and selling them on the street. He would use that money to buy more goods. And gradually he built a crew. And as they made more money they were able to get cheaper prices on merchandise. And they expanded around Canada. The first rally was spent around boxes of Pizza. The first International expansion was in 1986 in LA by Avie Roth. And then offices opened around the US and took off all over the world. The Advertising division formed in the late 80s. The roses division and Communications divisions were born in the mid 90s. Some things that helped the company grow where that people adopted the psychology and made the business their own. They were not expanding to the Philippines for Murrays sake, but for their own. The vast majority of international offices are clearance offices. But the other divisions are catching up. Clearance is the oldest division and it is called the back bone of the company. I have said a lot of bad things about Ds-max, Cydcor and Granton Marketing in my time. Nevertheless, I have to give credit where credit is due. This business started out of the back of a car that was being lived in by the founder. And now it is around the globe. 24 hours a day people are doing the 5 & 8 because they are inspired by the actions of Murray and the many others that have followed his dream. The business has clients that are fortune 500 companies. Murray himself said that if you told him that in the future his company would have the clients and following that it had hed have laughed at you and never believed it. Murray retired in 1990 and then came out of retirement in 1997. I have seen him speak at Rallys. I have never ever seen a more motivating person. When he speaks he makes the air feel like electricity. When asked about the business he gets humble and says that he feels like a snowball down a mountain and that it happened to become an avalanche out of his control. The two right hand people of Murray were Avie Roth and Larry Tennebaum. These men never retired and have been instrumental in the expansion of DS-max. Cydcor is named after Larrys children, Cydney and Cortney. Larrys mother Joy and his administrator Val Rowe now run the hub system and help oversee global operations. 12 Head office, Hubs and VPs All these independent offices are running around screaming juice. Some people need to get all the paperwork done. That is the role of the head offices. To my knowledge there are now three, one in Toronto Canada, in Farmingdale, NY and In LA. These offices have show rooms that exhibit ds-max products, conduct tours for member offices, coordinate shipping and product for all the offices and are warehouses for clearance goods. There are offices for VPs too. A hub is usually a woman that does most of the book keeping for an owner. The owner pays about $250 weekly for this service. An owner can elect to go with out a hub. An owner pays head office only for the goods he sells. (Unless of course it is a Cydcor deal). Also, an owner pays head office a certain amount of money every month for a prepaid legal expense. I am not sure how much it is now. Vice presidents oversee their organizations and run campaigns. They visit a lot of offices and give great speeches. They teach offices new campaigns. They can always be found at rallys dispensing their advice while surrounded by leaders glowing in admiration. 13 The belief system It is financial independence through the ds-max way of life or a life of poverty and working for others just to get laid off one day. It is the 9 to 5 people are losers. The mindset of a ds-max guy is on success through the business or nothing at all. To always be the one that hits every door. That gets with all the new people. Who is the best retrainer. The one who is setting the example in the office by hitting the bell. 14 Regional Leaders Meetings. These are held 3 or 4 times a year. The globe is divided into regions. A big city is picked. In the southwestern US the city is usually LA. New York usually has one. In the Northwest it is either Portland or Seattle. Usually a month or two before owners will start promoting these meeting. Leaders are made to understand that if they miss it they might well be out of a job and the new people are made to want to be privileged enough to be invited. The formula is simple. Fly in LT, Avie, a bunch of VPs Have the big wigs of the region present and get all offices in from miles around. A big conference room is usually rented in a hotel. And the masses congregate. Maybe 8 speakers will be picked. They will each be given a topic on crew building or running an office to go over. They will speak for about a half-hour and then turn the microphone over. They also might have a rep from cydcor or granton, or a guy running a new campaign. A manager that takes his guys to one of these rallys will strongly encourage his reps to talk with as many VPs and big wigs at these events as possible. The speeches are filled with emotion. The guys that they pick to speak are all doing well in the company. This means that they probably have great morning meetings to inspire guys to go out and make lots of money! They speak from the heart. They are motivating. They promote the business. They talk about situations that they went through to get where they are. Often enough they tell funny stories. (Lets face it folks if you have gone door to door for any amount of time you have funny stories!) It feels like Anthony Robbins squared! You walk out of one of those meetings at the end of the day and feel inspired. You are determined to be the next VP. These motivating inspiring meetings had a lot to do with keeping me in as long as I was. I might be having a bad day but then I would remember a speaker talking about something I would feel better. 15 The life of a career leader It is always promoted that it might be between 6 to 18 months to get to ownership. You dont want people to think it is simple. And for some people they do get promoted. But what about those that dont? I will now give a list of personal observations about what a life is like for a leader that is in for a year or three and is not yet promoted. 1) They live day to day. Often enough depending if they sell or not that day will determine supper and transportation for the next day. No sale = a poor supper and working close to the office the next day because you cant afford to contribute gas or come up with bus fare to go far out. 2) They live in a merch house. This is a home or apartment where many people in the office also live often enough the owner too! 3) They have some or all of the following: unpaid parking and speeding tickets, unpaid bills, let their bank accounts go negative and unpaid federal and or state taxes. They hope to get to ownership and pay everything off some day when they are fabulously wealthy. But in the meantime their credit is six feet under and they are scared of cops because of the unpaid tickets. 4) They dont have nice clothes. They have clothes that make them look professional enough to merch but when observed closely are worn and tattered. 5) Their shoes are worn. Often lopsided from the where and tear of walking 8 hours a day. 6) They need food or money from family of friends to get buy. 7) Many have done stints living in cars. 8) They zealously promote the opportunity they will have some day. 9) They know all the impacts, have met all the VPs and know all about the history 10) They have had and lost many crews. 11) They have numerous road trip stories. 12) They can do almost any campaign. 13) Most likely they do not have a car. They can not afford it. (Remember they are paying all this money out to retrains and for transportation in the field.) If they do have a car, most likely it is not insured. 14) They will always retrain someone even though they may not know where they might be sleeping in a week. Guys that give their lives to this business and dont get anywhere get my respect and pity. These guys have seen more rejection and they keep coming back for more. They have each seen many people get promoted yet they cant seem to do it themselves. To admit failure is too hard. They know so much about the company yet they cant be part of it. They know all the good impacts and atmosphere games and how to find the good territorys. They know where to find the best restrooms and cheap restaurants around town. They have made a commitment to succeed in the business and now they want to make it work. These same guys can overcome big negatives. They can have a crew toast and then come back from the field and help clean the office. Their parents can plead with them to leave. But they wont. Why? Because they have heard and now believe the stories about how successful VPs overcame their loved ones objections and that now they are financially independent business moguls. What do you think some of the top stories are that are given at Rallys? How a VP said something like I know you may not believe in this business Mom, but do you believe in me? Cant you just let me try this for a year and lets just see if I can make it work? VPs will heroically claim that they might have gotten kicked out of a parents house for sticking with the business; but now they are paying there parents mortgage! The career leaders latch on to these stories and believe them. They hope to be telling these same stories some day at a rally. Some career leaders have gotten themselves into situations they cant get out of. May be they are in a merch house and have no money saved. If they quit they get kicked out of their home and then dont have a place to stay. Yet owners need a bunch of committed leaders that they know will never make it. Leaders provide retrains and atmosphere. They work hard and provide the owners rent and a salary. A Corp of leaders is needed to provide a foundation to build the office up. These leaders are all lead to believe that by believing in the marketing program, that they too will be able to obtain financial independence. Understand that owners have been figuring out how to get people to stick with their business since 1980. They have been through countless people quitting on them. Thus they have loads of ammunition to give reps or their family members when they rail at them. They practice rebuttals to get them to calm down and stick it out. Advice is given at rallies and phone calls are made all the time just on these topics! They have years of trial and error on their side. On the other hand, an anguished girl friend or worried parent is dealing with something they have never heard of before something that someone they love has embraced. Such a person wants to be open minded but then they see that their loved one is going door to door, not making money and has a changed personality. They worry that he might be in a cult. The loved one is not worshipping a weird God. They are enslaved by the Ds-max psychology of financial independence through door to door sales. The reality is most will fail. Maybe one out of 20 people hired will actually make it to leadership, for every 100 leaders, maybe one will make it to ownership and of 100 owners, only a fraction will survive and a fraction of those will be VPs or even regional managers. You are better off trying to strike it rich in Vegas than in DS-max. And if you do stick it rich in Ds-max it is at the expense of the leaders. Getting money from Ds-max is a peg or two above accepting drug money. To conclude, I wish to have this information passed around. I have accumulated this message through personal experience. I suffered a lot to be able to pass on what I know to you. When I finished with Ds-max I had $80 in my pocket, was $16000 in debt, had a a repossed car and not a place to stay. This was after four years of dedidation to the business. Furthermore, there are many more like me who will never write. I am just one person. I can tell only so many people. More people should know what Ds-max, Cydcor and Granton Marketing are doing to people. Pass this on the members of an affiliated office. A government official or a journalist. Check it out for your selves. Look at www.ripoffreport.com or the MSN users chat group Ds-max the Aftermath. Good luck to you all and God bless. | ||
| Anonymous |
Looks like they have another name under which they work: Top Flight Enterprises. | ||
| Anonymous |
hey Everyone! I know someone who just started to work for Primerica Financial Services company (www.primerica.com). AS thier official site states, their mission is chiefly to help families become debt free and financially independent. I was wondering if this company has something to do with what was described by some of you above (Ds-max, Cydcor and Granton Marketing).Is it another one of those rip-off companies that promise top salaries and then employees get nothing for thier work cause it was all just a well-explained lie? My friend is convinced he will be a millionere in a couple of years and will only have to work a couple of hours a day talking to people and getting them "debt-free". Sounds too good to be true to me...but then, maybe i am wrong? What do you think? Thank you! | ||
| Anonymous |
My husband got involved with primerica a few years ago. I knew they were bad news right away. One night I drove around our neighborhood until past 10 o'clock waiting for them to leave my house, they were visiting & talking with him and waiting for me. I didnt want to give these bad news bandits one minute of airplay in my ears. The long and short of it is my once gainfully employed EX-husband is now out of work and in a one bedroom apartment barely scraping by with Primerica nowhere to be seen. | ||
| Anonymous |
Primerica and Cydcor are completely unrelated. | ||
| Anonymous |
theyre both still a scam/cult. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes they both scams and cultish. They are both evil organizations, but unrelated. That is like saying that the kkk and al queda work together. The world would be much better off with out both groups, but they just are not part of the same organization. | ||
| Anonymous |
I was involved in "D.C. Advertising" in Quincy Mass. In retrospect, what I find most disturbing about these "companies" is how they prey on the weak. When I got involved I was very poor, next to homeless and unemployed. I had been fighting a drug problem and had a horrible work history, none of this is anyone's fault but my own. The job market was real bad (not too long after 9/11) so I was very desperate. When I went for the interview I was in apporpriately dressed, everyone else was in suits and business casul (for the other applicants) I was in jeans and sneakers. Everyone seemed so professional. I was shocked when I was asked back for the "second interview". I borrowed money from a family member to get more proper attire and went out on my interview. All day I had the rhetoric blasted at me, "The Yankees Pitch" rags to riches stories ect. I was enthralled, I was at a time where I firmly believed I had no future, I had recovered from a suicide atttempt about a year earlier, I was very vunerable, I felt like this was my only chance, that I would never ever see an opportunity like this again. I committed my self to doing this, to beating the odds, to "making something". All the while, the company's rhetoric and propaganda only re-inforced my feelings of insecurity and promoted my further and further detachement from reality-at-large. I did extremely well my first 2 or 3 weeks. I was working the D.A.R.E. campaign (which was Ironic because I kept 60% of the proceeds from each sale, and due to my habit, atleast 50% of that went to drugs, so when people thought they were donating money to fight drugs, only 10% of thier donation went to fighting drugs, but 30% went to buying me drugs!) on D.A.R.E. I made good money my attitude was "great" I worked real hard. Then we switched campaings, and things went wrong. I will say with total abject and impartial honesty, that I worked very, very hard. I stuck to the system like a T. I never, ever skipped houses. According to people in pitch circles my pitch was incredible (and my sales up to that point reflected it) and I always worked my 5 steps. For some reason when we switched campaings I stopped making money. Zip, nothing. I went from 10 to 15 sales a day to nothing accasionaly 1 or 2. I couldn't afford to live. It really confused my team (by the way the people I worked with were great, it was the system that was screwing all of our heads up equally, my office was very professional and the people were very supportive, atleast at first.) they took me out on retrains, they observed my pitch I got personally coached and no one could figure it out, something was wrong, something wasn't working. They would retrain with me and I would do perfect, they would see me pitch and say, that was great, it's just LOA it'll catch up, but it never did, no one could figure it out. Eventualy they started supporting me less it was obvious i was a lost cause, they just sent me out into the field to languish the help stopped, people stopped pitching with me in circles, no one wanted to help anymore, it was a assumed that out in the field i was lazy, or not working it right or not going to all the houses or not doing enough laps. Now, what was most dangerous, was this job was the only thing in the world I had (or so I thought) it was the crutch that my impoverished ego was propped up on. My entire emotional well being was dependant on succeddding in withing the confines of this closed system, with easily definable concepts and rules, absolute rights and wrongs, and no grey area. I was desperate for attention, recognition and starved for affection, and the only place I got it was work (again or so i thought). When I felt all that slipping away, I was panicked, I was so hurt, I felt like I glimpsed my only hope and it was being taken away from me. I felt like I was the embodiment of failure, I wanted to die. I started breaking down. I just wanted something to believe in. One day, while wondering around in the field, in the freezing cold, on a road with no houses, in the middle of nowhere, with no money for lunch and no breakfast and a possibility of no money to get home. I just collapsed in tears, I couldn't do it. I gave up, I felt so ashamed, and inadiquate, so hurt, so worhtless. My failure in my job was my direct failure in life. I had nothing left. I walked back to my prescribed meeting point (for lunch with my teem mates) gave them my merch and said "I cannot do this, I don't have the where-with-all to handle this. I have to go." I called my aunt and got a ride to her house. I was so distraught. I must have looked as though I lost a loved one, and I felt as though I had. I felt as though i lost my hope and my future. I carried the guilt around for a very long time. It was a dark time for me. I have only recently (almost a year later) come to terms with the fact that i was psychologically manipulated, but not by my co-workers, as they had fallen prey to the same system. It was the system, the ideology, the self perpatuating madness that spread from one vunerable mind to the next. So many of my co-workers were young, many were immagrents, there were single moms, and people who's pre-9/11 careers had dried up. It was the system that fed off us all equally pushing us to push other and so on ad-nauseum, the system itself, the mantra, the rhetoric is a living being when hosed withing the confines of that psychological battleground of the office. It takes energy from those so eager to give anything for a glimpse of a better tommorow for themselves or thier familes, depriving both the aformention and fueling nothing but the continuing growth of the ethos. It is a predator and the weak and disenfranchised is it's prey. Everyone from the customer to the VP are victams of themselves, eachother and ultimately the masterwork of human psychological manipulation of the system at large. It's quasi-fanatical devotion of those in it's grasp it so easily identifiable with the likes of Germany at the height of fervent Nazi-ism, every person involved only has the best of intentions, only wants to grab on to a dream dangled infront of thier faces, but thier actions serve only to spread the cancer accross the minds and hearts of all that they encounter. I hope, in my heart of hearts someday this can be stopped and sothat some may be saved and so many may be spared from this abhorant and despicable beast. | ||
| jlogan |
I too went to an "interview" for this company. I felt totally raped when I found out what they really are. They really talked it up in the interview and made it seem like I was really "vying" or competing for this job. Then WOW, when they offered it to me, I said YES. I really felt like I had sold myself in the interview. These people are just parasites, preying on people and making them feel pumped up so that it is a really big deal when they offer the job. Luckily, my "Day of O" was only one hour, as I told them I have to be at my real job by 12 noon (which is true). I totally hate the job that I have right now, but I will say this, after finding out about this company from http://wolfram.org/scam/cydcor.html, I really felt blessed to have the job that I do right now. I still have that dirty feeling though, every time I think about this company and the 2 days that I wasted going to their interviews and all the bs that I almost fell for. Thank God for intuition. If anyone wants to ask questions or make comments, use the e-mail below, but change the bahoo to yahoo. | ||
| Jesco |
I'm glad somebody mentioned PRIMERICA. Cult..who knows? Slimey and Shifty...absolutely. Watch out if you have your resume' on any of the major job sites - monster, hotjobs, etc. You'll either get an email or voice mail saying that your qualifications are "just what they are looking for" and that management opps are becoming available in your area. My area being the western suburbs of Chicago. This may be just what you want to hear, especially if you are trying to find a job in this crappy economy. At first they won't mention Primerica, it'll be a different name - "Sheister & Associates" or whatever (just kidding). I had applied to so many jobs, that it took me a little while to realize that I hadn't applied to them at all - they had pulled my name from the job boards. I sure wish those job boards would have a little quality control over who they let access their registrants - surely they've received a few complaints by now? And to those pro-Primerica lurkers...I'm quite capable of forming my own opinions of Primerica, but dozens and dozens of complaints that are available to read in newsgroups and from a few friends who actually went for interviews is enough for me to not want to waste my time and to keep looking for more solid employment, without all the vague answers, cattle call interviews, false hopes, etc. | ||
| anonymous |
Ds-max has now Divided up! Innovage is now Clearance, Cydcor runs the communications deals now, Granton Marketing runs the advertising deals and Vice Presidents are now called seniour National Correspondents. Editor! Is it possible to add :innovage and Granton Marketing to the top of the post? | ||
| Anonymous |
To all the weak, negative minded individuals who keep dissing Cydcor, here's a REALITY CHECK. My name is Darryl and I've been working for them for over a year and a half--the best year and a half of my entire life. Cydcor is NOT the corporate shark of a company that you losers make it out to be. It's a large multinational network of INDEPENDENTLY OWNED AND OPERATED offices. Cydcor provides the infrastructure necessary to ensure that these offices can run. Accountants, lawyers, training, sales tools and materials, and most importantly the clients--ALL FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES. To recap my earlier statement in CAPS, each office is managed INDEPENDENTLY of all others in the style and prestige(or lack thereof) that the manager of THAT office decides. During my time with the company--which began in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada--my manager Aearon, only 26 years old, was given the opportunity to open up the market in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and since then has done phenomenally well. When I started, i must admit, I was VERY sceptical myself. The office was being run out of a shabby warehouse that had been renovated into an office--not the greatest impression--but after merely 2 months with the company, and several straight weeks of $500+ paychecks, I decided to make the move to Edmonton with the office and the manager paid for EVERYTHING. The 3100 kilometer trip across Canada--including hotels and food all the way there for eight people besides himself--($2000), the U-Haul truck to ship all of our furniture and belongings($2500), the 3 week stay in a pretty nice hotel while we established the office and found lodgings for ourselves($1500), our first, second and last months rent in a three story town house plus damage deposit($3600--$900/month--x 2 Units= TOTAL $7200) and he even helped us out with cash for the first few months whenever we needed it. Do the math that's $9600+ out of his pocket to make sure that we were COMFORTABLY taken care of. And that's not including the costs of setting up the office. Anyway, regardless of the figures, the manager treated us like we were family and he had no reason to. Since the move, I've travelled to many different cities for business trips and learning seminars--all expenses paid I might add--and worked my way up to a Team Leadership position--the second of four promotions towards Management--(I know, I know I wasn't the fastest ever but I spent over four months doing a test-pilot for an energy campaign and they never promised me that 6-8 month bullshit) and am now on the verge of Assistant Management where the big money starts to come in. And this all on MY OWN MERIT. Never have I even heard of another company where this is possible and to top it off, I've witnessed a very young man get promoted to a Management position where he has already banked approximately $25,000-$30,000 in four very short months. Never did the company make me promises of a "GET RICH QUICK SCHEME". Never did they try to blow smoke up my ass so to speak with empty promises. They let me know from the beginning that each person takes a different length of time to get to a Management position based on their own learning curve and that not everybody is strong-willed enough or self-motivated enough to do it. I would also like to add that every promise they did make has come true. They promised AT LEAST $300 per week with 100% of my effort and for the past year I've made between $600-$1000 per week--but only because I made the CHOICE to put in 100% of my effort and this is not to mention the phenomenal weeks in which I made between $1000-$2500. They promised a better understanding of my own potential as a person and my own limits as well as people skills in general and I've grown to know myself so much more since I started that the people skills came naturally. Pretty much what I'm trying to say by writing this readers, is not that every office within the network will have such a great manager and not everyone's experience will be like my own, but there are a lot of great managers out there and no matter the experiences of some people--who in all honesty never really gave the business a decent chance or even 50% of their best effort--anyone who puts in 100% WILL see results worth speaking of. Whether that be in the form of $$$ profit or just a better understanding of self. E-mail me if you wanna chat about any doubts you have about the company, both for those that are relatively new to the business and those that have not yet given it a chance. For everyone else--negative bastards and weak pieces of shit included--all I can say is check your attitude. And if it's not your attitude that's the problem--although that is the most common one--try out a different office under different management if there's one in your area. You may find an awesome manager like mine and if you do you will never regret the experience in that office even if you do not end up making it to management. Sincerely, Darryl J. G. Soon to be C.E.O. of IROK Enterprises Marketting Group Inc. | ||
| Anonymous |
Also everyone in any of the offices that I've visited during rallies or worked out of during training on a new campaign, absolutely loved the job and most had their family's full support and involvement in the company. I work 8:30am-5:00pm and I only stay later or show up earlier when I WANT TO. No pressure. No cultish bullshit. Just people who don't bathe in self-pity and are actually willing to put in 100% effort all the time in order to get ahead. Nothing is free in this world. Check out gov. stats on how many people work several jobs just to make ends meet. Are they too part of some Over-Worker's Cult who preys on single parents and drop-outs. Oh my God....maybe McDonald's is part of the cult, and Nike.....oh, and maybe Microsoft and Wal-Mart and Home Depot and....hell, the Governement is probably part of it too. George W. could be the cult leader, couldn't he? He's charismatic, positive, self-assured, elitist, conformist etc...all the qualities that you people have attributed to cults. Wait, I know. Every World Leader is part of the cult. We could call it "The cult of Human Nature", maybe that would satisfy your self-pity to know that the whole world is a cult and you're all victims. You people love to be the victims of large, cruel organizations don't you? Yes, you do, don't you? Sincerely, Darryl J. G. Soon to be C.E.O. of IROK Enterprises Marketting Group Inc. | ||
| todd smith |
IROK That is all about. You rocking and exploiting your guys. I don't think you may be inherently evil. Just deceived. You are surrounded with hype about financial success through door to door sales and building a salescrew through ds-max. With all that indoctrination, you believe it. You have to or you would doubt why you are there and what you are doing in the field. And then people wouldn't buy from you. The odds of you succeeding and making any real money are very smaller. And the odds that the money you earn, through the efforts of the people you take to start your company, are even slimmer. You have my pity. | ||
| Anonymous |
I totally agree with all the negative aspects of that business. I met a bunch of talented young college grads who got sucked in by one guy who claimed he graduated from George Washington, when he couldn't even pass a simple math class. Although he did get promoted his business failed in a staggering three months. While he failed, he moved in with a girl he used to work with, borrowed money from his employees, and during his so called management day, he looked up porn and other sites on his computer. He also borrowed smokes, clothes, and other things from his employees. All this from a guy who supposedly made 100 K a year???? For those that read this his name is Jason Bossart, and he is the biggest fraud out there. His company went bankrupt along with a few others in the St. Louis area. Not only were they apathetic in getting new clients, the upper management sat on their thumbs and did nothing. I am recently getting over a lease agreement for an apartment that Bossart couldn't even get on because his credit was so bad. How is that Jeep (repo) or Mustang (broke down) Jason?? How is your girlfriend, one of the so called TOP LEADERS (Chris Shimkus), get pregnant yet?? Anyway I just wanted to throw my two cents in, and for those who think they are the greatest, I won top leader in both offices I was at, if oyu have a problem with that then we can go over my Officer Commission, Engineering Degree, or anything else, (Not bad for a cow eh??) But to those who stayed with me in St Louis and those in Memphis and Nashville. Stay strong, go for your dreams, and if you see Jason, ask him to make some Ramen for us! I heard he is getting pretty good at it since he Failed as a LEADER, ASST MANAGER, and OWNER. GO HOME TO JERSEY, TAKE STATISTICS and GET A LIFE. IF YOU ARE READING THIS YOU KNOW WHO I AM AND YOU ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO TALK TO ME ABOUT IT. BUT I SUGGEST YOU PACK A LUNCH AND GET READY TO MEET ONE PISSED OFF RANGER!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
Thanks to all of these messages I avoided going to an interview entirely. The company under Cydcor this time is called The Advertising Group (TAG) and they are located in Los Angeles. They called me back in less than 2 hours from the time I emailed my resume. SHADY! Thanks again! | ||
| Anonymous |
check out www.dsmaxtheaftermath.com | ||
| cat |
I can only say thank you to all of you who have written. I had an initial phone interview with the so-called Director of Operations of Cydcor as a campaign supervisor. It lasted about 25 minutes and I felt like we really hit it off. I got the call for a second interview the next day. I am supposed to go in early next week for my second interview but after reading the Ripoff Report and finding these postings, I am going to stay as far away from this company as I possibly can. If there is anyone out there who is still interested in this company or any of its affiliates, I have one question for you...How can so many people be wrong? | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.97.10) |
i went to a interview today cydcor company called yenkro enterp.in atlanta , ga. the the same bullsh*t was told to me ,thanks to this posting i will not go to the second interview tomorrow morning, | ||
| Anonymous (208.203.4.100) |
I worked for a DS-Max in Sacramento, CA for a summer. Here's my two-cents. Positive (Always start positively): -Sales skills -Positivity training -Hone workethic Negative: -Lied to in interview about many things. -Ex owner/manager/whatevertheyreallyarelegally embezled from employee accounts and was not tried. -Told an independent contractor, yet told what to do and how to do it or you might not work here any more. (????) -Made to cover all expenses on business trips. I wasted a summer but gained invaluable career skils. It's great summer school for business, but not a good career. Decide whether or not you can deal with it. Not recomended for anyone over twenty who wants to "get an in" to the business world. | ||
| Aron Michaels (68.161.32.125) |
Hey everybody... Wow.. you people sure are "negged out!" What a bunch of whining pathetic losers! I guess misery really does love company! ok..so ds-max didn't work out for you. Cut your loses, chalk it up as an experience and move on with your life! Just because you couldn't handle the business, you actually have the gall to sit on your fat un-employed asses and cry about how you were ripped off and scammed?! Get a life, and move on. I can't beleive you people try to deter others from joining a ds-max company by publicly displaying your "horror stories" on the internet...pathetic..totally pathetic. Oh, and before I forget, I need to address something that seems to be a very common complaint in all of your testimonials. You are not an "EMPLOYEE" and you do not "WORK FOR" a ds-max company. From day one, you are an "INDEPENDENT DISTRIBUTOR" which means, (if I may put it rudely) THEY DON"T OWE YOU A DAMN THING! They are teaching you how to be an independent business owner, and they are teaching you the tecniques and the work habits that are necesary to be sucessful. Lets see if we can name the people in your neighborhood who are independent contractors... hmmm.. the guy who owns the deli on main street, the woman who owns the flower shop, the asian in the chinese food place.. and... ALMOST EVERY MILLIONARE IN AMERICA!! Do we all see a pattern developing here, or should I go on? And to say that ds-max is a cult is complete mindless ignorant drivel...(But I guess ignorance is bliss)If you couldn't handle the work, you should have left and admitted defeat. You morons who stayed around for months and years at a time while making no money need to have your heads examined. You are not children, you are supposed to have the desision-making abilities of intelligent adults right? If you can't handle the business, LEAVE! Its that simple! Go do something that is more suited for your work habits, and personality! How can you compare this business to a cult? One of you people who of course is "anonymous" actually adressed it as Nazi-ism????? Wow, honey, you have issues upon issues and you need to go see someone about that. Folks, we live in a democratic, and free thinking society where people are free to make their own choices. You will simply not be financially independent working for someone else. It won't happen. If you have the desire to be your own independent business owner, you should give ds-max a try. If your goal in life is to work for somone for 40 years (if your not layed off or fired by then) and retire with a cool-aide party and a cheap watch, then please... do us and yourself a favor and stay far, far, far, away from any ds-max company. Good luck to all of you and god bless. | ||
| Yaakov (12.8.126.145) |
Aron Michaels ]You are not an "EMPLOYEE" and you do not "WORK FOR" a ds-max company. From day one, you are an "INDEPENDENT DISTRIBUTOR" which means, THEY DON"T OWE YOU A DAMN THING! This should also work in reverse; an independent contractor doesnt owe anything to DS-Max. ]Lets see if we can name the people in your neighborhood who are independent contractors... hmmm.. the guy who owns the deli on main street, the woman who owns the flower shop, the asian in the chinese food place.. and... ALMOST EVERY MILLIONARE IN AMERICA!! Do we all see a pattern developing here, or should I go on? Are you saying that sole proprietors are usually millionaires? In my experience, people that own single location retail stores (flower shop owners and restaurant owners in your example) are rarely millionaires. In addition, they usually work much longer hours that someone that works for a company. ]You will simply not be financially independent working for someone else. It won't happen. How are you defining financially independent? If a person makes $80,000/yr as an employee, then how are they NOT financially independent? | ||
| Aron Michaels (68.161.32.125) |
Yaakov..... Well thank you for proving my point. I am NOT saying that sole proprietors are millionares yaakov. I am saying they are INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.. And yes, thank you yaakov, they do indeed work longer hours than an employee, because they are working for themselves with a common goal of financial independence, much like an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR in ds-max... In regards to your question, "If a person makes $80,000/yr as an employee, then how are they NOT financially independent?" Well here's the thing yaakov... WILL YOU EVER OWN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?? The answer is, Probably not. Financial freedom yaakov, is not having to answer to anyone... not having anyone over your shoulder, not having A BOSS to deal with. And that is what ds-max companies offer to people who choose to learn and take advantage of the opportunity presented to them. The name of the game is sacrifice... and failure. Ask any multi-millionaire or any inventor, or any wealthy business owner who built a business from the ground up how much they had to sacrifice. Ask them how many times they failed...I guarantee their answer will prove my point. Nothing in this world comes easy. If you want the good stuff in life.. the nice house, the nice cars, the lavish life style, and the financial freedom that ds-max offers, then you better be prepared to fight through the obstacles. But, if you're the kind of person who just prefers to lay down and let things happen, with that "I'm waiting for my ship to come in" attitude towards life, I do believe that White Castle and KFC are looking for some people with your exact same mentality. Good luck to you...by the way, try the #4 value meal. I hear its fantastic. | ||
| Meagan (68.161.32.125) |
Aron Wow!!!!! Finally someone with some sense and intelligence has posted on this site! Thanks Aron for being the voice of reason. ~Meagan, NY | ||
| Yaakov (12.8.126.145) |
Hi Aron I am having a difficult time following your logic. You say that the definition of Financially independent is Financial Freedom. You then define Financial Freedom as having no boss or having no one to answer to. With a definition like that, even Bill Gates (the richest man in America) does not have Financial Freedom. He has to answer to the stockholders of his company. Would you honestly tell me that Bill Gates is not Financially Independent? Matter of fact, the only people that would meet that definition are the unemployed (including people that inherited their wealth that dont work). In addition, Aron, you dont seem to be an honest person. Meagan, who gushes about your intelligence has the EXACT same ISP address as you. | ||
| Anonymous (24.2.157.63) |
Word for the day. Apocryphal = of doubtful authenticity. The whole ds-max opportunity is apocrphal. So it is either success through a door to door multi-level marketing company or a carreer at fast food? In this MLM one finds out that: they don't want reps to get further formal education, that they turn reps against any who try to leave it, where reps will not make that much money and where reps will learn to mislead others? A rep will have to memorize chants, participate in two unpaid gatherings a day and not be reimbursed for travel? To top it off, reps will not get any taxes taken out and be told they are their own bosses, but at the same time they have no experience at this and will get no tax help at the end of the year and will be fair game for the IRS? Oh, and very few make management even after years of door to door work, few managers make good money, many go out of business and very few people even ever attain regional of snc. Assuming your version of the world were true, I would take a Mc Job over your apocryphal opportunity any day of the week. But it is not true. People can learn and get good jobs and not have to rip off others and drive themselves into debt. I hope you wake up. | ||
| Aron Michaels (151.205.113.247) |
Wow.... ok theres absolutely no changing you people. You have already brainwashed yourself. Yaakov, you have to be the most bored person in the entire world because you seem to monitor this site like some kind of obsessive anti ds-max drone. In addition, you seem to enjoy taking half sentences out of context and using them back against the person who wrote it. Just so you know, that's juvenile. What's wrong yaakov? I made too much sense for you? awww, I'm sorry. Next time I post I'll try to be just as negged out as you are. ok? By the way pal, Meagan is my girl. I didn't know she came on the site after me. But don't worry, I'll be sure to tell her to stay off so that you wont have too many people representing the rational side on this argument. ok? ooook. One more thing before I go. And this is for the gentleman who would like to remain "anonymous"...I did wake up chico. I woke up a long time ago, I left corporate America because people do not have control over their futures. (By the way, I used to work at Disney as an animator) DS-MAX showed me a way to build up a business with absolutely no money down. Mr. Anonymous, the only way you can't make money in ds-max is if you don't work hard, and if you are not a positive role model or a natural leader. I had absolutely no problems making money, or building a crew of 23 guys and showing them how to make money. As a result, after 8 months in the field, I was able to open up my own office in which I paid NOTHING for. Oh.. I almost forgot.. I opened up 7 more offices after that. Oh, I almost forgot something else... I'm 25 years old. I did it all with absolutley no monetary investment. The only thing I invested, was my time. Sure, it takes a little extra work, a little more dedication, and alot more sacrifice than your everyday 9-5 job. But at 25, I am able to afford things that most 40 year olds can't. That's a good thing. People... read this carefully. I am an everyday average person. I just wanted a little more out of life.. thats all. And I went out and got it. If I leave ds-max tomorrow, I will never ever be broke. Why? Noooo, I wont ever go back to "corporate america"...The reason why, is because the knowledge I gained from running 8 locations and managing and motivating over 150 people, combined with the work ethic and dedication I now have, combined with the confidence I now have, I know I can do absolutely anything in this world and be very successful at it. There ya go folks. I'm living proof that the system works. Just a kid from Long Island who cut through all the bullshit and excuses, and made things happen. I'm nothing special. I just have solid goals. I just know what I want. All the people on this site have a negative opinion, which is fine, but they are still only opinions. The site is horrible at first glance. But in reality, all it is, is about 10-15 people who couldn't handle the system of ds-max. That's fine. It is obviously not for everyone, or else there would be no opportunity left for those who can handle it. In conclusion, I say ds-max is great if its something you want to do. Its great if its something that you can handle. If you want to work 10-12 hour days, and if you dont mind missing a birthday here and there, and you are a natural leader who has confidence in himself and a desire for something a little better in the future, then you could possibly make it in the biz. If you are absolutely sure thats not for you, PLEASE stay away. Far away from any ds-max, innovage, cydcor, or granton affilliated company. On second thought, stay away from any company where growth and pay are based upon hard work, personality, and merit. For all you first timers to the site, think long and hard before you take any of these opinions to heart. Form your own judgments. Make your own decisions. For me, I will do some research, and I will find a website in which people write testimonials about the successes they have had under the ds-max umbrella. That way, we can have two sides to this argument, and things will be a little bit more civilized. There's just way too much negativity here for me. Thank you all for your time, and good luck in whatever you do in the future. | ||
| Anonymous (193.0.240.25) |
Greetings my name is Andrey. My company is engaged produktions fur, fur coats, and also sale of valuable fur if you are interested with my offer will leave on contact. | ||
| Anonymous (24.2.157.63) |
Aron, You got what ever money you got at the expense of deluding hundreds of people to into an apocrypal opportunity. You have driven hundreds into the poor house. And when they leave, you act like it is not your fault. You explain things in a certain way that sounds nice, but really it is disastrous to most applicants. You are like the snake that tempted Eve with the apple. All lies and no reward and a bitter realization in the end. 1) I have seen vp's with money, but most managers are lucky to have cars and often live in merch houses. Very few people ever make management and most of them do not have envious lives at all and few advance beyond that. 2) Your hype is not original. It is the same hype they promote at all the rallys and all your conference calls. The only original thing about it is the way you regurgitated it. To conclude, a Mc job would be better any day of the week over a dsmax scam. | ||
| Yaakov (67.8.211.106) |
Aron Michaels ]Wow.... ok theres absolutely no changing you people. You have already brainwashed yourself. Yaakov, you have to be the most bored person in the entire world because you seem to monitor this site like some kind of obsessive anti ds-max drone. In addition, you seem to enjoy taking half sentences out of context and using them back against the person who wrote it. Just so you know, that's juvenile. First, posting the relevant portions of your post enables my responses to be put into context. I am simply typing the conversation to enhance understandability. Second, you have only responded to my questions and statements with personal attacks on me. Generally, that is only done by a person that is not able to answer a question. So, I will ask you again, What is your definition of Financially Independent? ]By the way pal, Meagan is my girl. I didn't know she came on the site after me. But don't worry, I'll be sure to tell her to stay off so that you wont have too many people representing the rational side on this argument. ok? Meagan is more than welcome to post. However, for her to post such glowing endorsements of you without telling everyone that she knows you is a bit dishonest. Without the ISP listing, she would have got away with it. ]after 8 months in the field, I was able to open up my own office in which I paid NOTHING for. I am curious. How did you manage to avoid paying rent? ]If I leave ds-max tomorrow, I will never ever be broke. Why? The reason why, is because the knowledge I gained from running 8 locations and managing and motivating over 150 people, combined with the work ethic and dedication I now have, combined with the confidence I now have, I know I can do absolutely anything in this world and be very successful at it. Congratulations on your success and attaining your dreams. ]I'm living proof that the system works. Just a kid from Long Island who cut through all the bullshit and excuses, and made things happen. I'm nothing special. I just have solid goals. I just know what I want. All the people on this site have a negative opinion, which is fine, but they are still only opinions. Why do you demean other people? You tell us that only your typed statements are factual proof, but everyone elses typed statements are only opinions. Why would you dismiss other peoples experiences as being only opinions? Have you ever considered that their experiences are factual to them? ]For me, I will do some research, and I will find a website in which people write testimonials about the successes they have had under the ds-max umbrella. That way, we can have two sides to this argument, and things will be a little bit more civilized. There's just way too much negativity here for me. That would be great! Separate opinions are good to read. Since you are such a hard worker, you should be able to find such a website in no time. | ||
| Stacy Renee (129.210.160.25) |
Woah. Here it is, the night before my "day long interview" with this professional advertising firm in San Francisco that boasts nothing but fortune 500 clients....The Advertising Group. Doing a little last minute research and stumbled upon this site. Thank GOD. I almost got duped. I am an inteligent, soon to be college grad from one of the best business schools in the country, and will do much better for myself. The question now is....do I go tomorrow morning, laugh in their face, and ask for my application back? I think so. | ||
| Anonymous (24.7.147.172) |
good for you stacy .i was a owner in the clearance division and after five years i walked away yeah i made decent money but the reality was i was making unbelievable money.no matter how many outside locations i had opened and closed i was making the same amount . it is not a SCAM but an opportunity that is harder than (almost)anything you will ever do.the odds are not in anyones favor. do i support ds-max NO do i put them down either NO .you cannot knock something just because it is hard . | ||
| SUPERsalesmanTAFF (68.216.176.126) |
hello everyone, it is crazy to see so many things written about this company. i will tell you my story. JUNE-2003 i call the company from a posting i see on monster.com where i am told they are holding open interviews the next week and they would love to meet me. after telling them that i am 4 and 1/2 hours away they explain that it is worth it b/c i will be making between 500 and 700 dollars a week for the first 8 weeks. I go to the interview after a four hour drive and guess what after a 10 minute interview I have to drive 4 hours home. that afternoon i get my phonecall and i drive back the next morning for my day of "O". guess what again i got the job! whew!!! JULY-2003 i am at CRESCENT INTERNATIONAL in Memphis TN and guess what i am a leader now!! thanks for the promotion MEAGAN and CARRIE!!! now i am the first person to bang on the wall for a 500 dollar profit in one day b/c i am one hell of a salesman but thats not what they want. now i find it odd that they make money from their salespeople(distributors) but they dispise anyone who can sell. AUGUST-2003 so now i have left college, moved to memphis where i am living with another leader b/c i have only received 2 paychecks worth a whole 400 dollars in 2 months but i am now in too deep to get out. i now promote my first leader (sorry JENNIFER) SHE WAS TOO NICE FOR ME TO LET GET SUCKED IN!!(she has since quit). so i go to a territory that is 60 miles away for the day and ohhh i was told traveling over 60 miles would constitute an overnight stay. that never happened. but i am about to run out of gas so i stop at a gas station that i have sold bellsouth phone lines to and they let me fill up on the promise that i will pay them back the next day. the next day i got moved to another territory which happened often and was not able to get back out there. the owner e-mailed my boss MEAGAN PERRY and asked about the 20 dollars i borrowed in gas and meagan fired me. Brandy Rucks your a bitch too and you know why. so too DANIEL, MEAGAN, CARRIE, AND BRANDY YOU CAN ALL GO TO HELL. BY THE WAY I ALMOST HAD THE IRS DOWN MY BACK B/C THEY WOULD NOT SEND ME MY W2 B/C MEAGAN AND CRESCENT INT'L NO LONGER EXIST IT IS NOW OWNED BY DEVON SO ANYONE IN THE MEMPHIS AREA WATCH OUT THEY WILL GET YA!!! | ||
| Good Luck (4.155.96.212) |
Its funny to here such positive messages from very uninformed individuals. I worked in advertising then helped spearhead creditcards then cydcor Quill campain. I was promoted 3 times to assistant manager and didn't get an office until the third time because my mgrs didn't have enough money to promote me out. I did run an office for a year and after taxes i left the business wi 40,000$ cash plus what i paid myself in paychecks during the year. Not bad. I am one in a thousand. My hub, the accountant they assign to u told me i was the only owner that had money while i run my co, and left and still have money. unless u are brandi rucks, jamie hepp a vp or in a really juicy att organization u dont make money as an owner. Att is the money campain. THe other cydcor campains arent nearly as profitable and are best used as side campains. field guys make some money, owners make little in the other campains. All of the other Ds Max, Innovage, Quantam, Advertising, divisions deal with product and their sales and are fickle. Ive seen in the summer owners bank 40,000$ in three months and widdle it away in slow times. Average owner in Ds Max pays themselves a pay check for 500$ bi-weekly. Bonus themselves here and there but dont make alot. If ur owner actually does have money, i mean money. Not just 100$ in his pocket all the time and a decent car. But owns a house and has a stock portfolio, not through his wife or husband. Then they are one of the lucky few. Regional directors and VPs do not make any salary. They make overrides. Not allways substantial considering how much money they have to shell out to their outside deals all the time and set up events, etc. Vps make money, but still work 80 hrs a week, if they dont, they will be making nothing in no time. Deals will fail. Those of u who think it will all end when u get to ownership are completely wrong. U are not ur own boss, u follow orders or u get shut down. Or get no support. I feel bad for the wide eyed leaders in the room. Because many of u are talented for the business. One in a hundred will make it to management. THen one in fifty of u will make money for a year then lose it all. One in two hundred will make scraps for five to eight years and finally make decent money through the bus. 50,000 a year. But at the cost of dignity and a personal life. Allways 70-80 hrs a week. One in a thousand owners will make it to vp and make some real money. Heres what most people dont know, it took me a while to figure it out. There is a high turnover for distributers and leaders. A VP sees just as high a turnover with his owners. Good luck, life is a gamble, if u want to work hard and try to be the small statistic good for u. BUt know that the end result is not what they tell u. U will play the game unti u retire from the company. | ||
| Anonymous (68.6.199.63) |
You guys have to take into consideration that just as there are bad branches in every tree there are bad branches in Cydcor and any other company with multiple locations for that matter. I have been working for a branch of Cydcor now for 5 weeks and have been consistantly been pulling in $750-$800 average a week. Sure I had five intial days of training but I didn't mind. My paycheck came my second week and I was paid for a portion of my training. Also, no part of my paycheck goes to my old trainer. It is mine, I've checked personally on each check in comparison to my weekly output in sales and its legit. My paychecks have been fine and I've never met a more supportive group of people. You all think that we're there for 12 hours a day, sure we're in the office but we only work for like 8 hours. We are free to come and go as we please at any other time with no loss to us. I stay longer because I get along great with my coworkers and I like talking with them about everything, we just get together and go out and eat or just chill cause we like each other; yes coworkers can be friends believe it or not. Also, when we're out in the field we're unsupervised. Hell, we could take the whole day off and go to the movies, but then we won't sell anything and we won't get paid. So its up to us to how much earning potential we want. I love getting up in the morning cause I know I get to chill with my friends and then go through the days meeting an incredible plethora of people. Just for the record, I've have been with over 1,500-1800 different businesses and I can literally count the number of times I've been flat out told "No, I'm not interested" from 19 business owners. Yeah I don't think 19 out of 1,500 is gonna make me quit. These road trips that people are complaining about... I just went on one and my lodging in San Fran, food and gas were all paid for by my company. I got promoted fast and love training and taking out interviews. I just wanted to show you guys that if you work for a bad subsidiary sure its gonna suck but to say all of Cydcor is like how you described is a horrible exaggeration. | ||
| Anonymous (68.111.245.202) |
I spent only a month at Cydcor, making good money and everything, but first instincts are usually right. After finding sites like these, it all makes so much sense. And Aron, you are ridiculous. Be your own boss? Answer to nobody? Are you kidding me? Even when you "own" your own business, you CONSTANTLY answer to the big wigs EVERY day, and you do what they want or your ass gets canned. Get a life | ||
| Lance Broderick (68.169.182.99) |
I have just dodge my first interview today and will not waste more time wondering if I should have went on the interview. I just left a job paying $50,000 per year, but it did not make since accepting a job where the pay can't touch you current living expenses. I was skeptical from the very first voice mail I received that stated my resume was great. That was strange since I did not have any sales, marketing, or advertising experience. My college education really helped me to identify questionable companies. One major clue is to know that if a company asks you to complete a W-4 and an I-9 form, then there must be some type of deduction coming out of a paycheck. For a commission only job, be afraid. There are many excellent sales and advertisement opportunities from good companies. A base pay should be established, and should also include the training period. The Advertising Group, which has a sub-alias of TAG, faulted from the very begining. I know my qualifications and experience, and the best thing to do is not to fool yourself. They informed me that 300 resumes have been received and they called me. From those 300 resumes, I am sure that there are at least 250 people more qualified than I am. One thing is true that I have discovered...This company does do business differently, and if it continues, then the high turn over rate will be a constant reminder of business done wrong. | ||
| Anonymous (24.5.25.105) |
I recently went on an interview at Arsene-Lee Advertising in San Francisco. I was asked questions such as, What is your definition of leadership? Does the word sales scare you? Mostly typical interview questions. However, when I attempted to ask a question about the company and its affiliates, I was given the runaround. I was also distracted by pulsating music in the lobby which I was sharing with another half-dozen applicants! The receptionist also answered the phone without using the company's name. Instead, she answered, "Hello, marketing?" Very unusual. I agreed to return for my second interview, but upon further research I have determined that this is a complete scam. Therefore, I won't waste my time. I did not attend college to go on interviews that require that I wear comfortbale shoes and spend an entire day selling door-to-door. I'm curious to know if any other recent college grads have been lured by Arsene-Lee. I noticed them on Monster.com which I assumed was a legitimate referral source. Please post if anyone has experienced a similar bizarre interview process. | ||
| Anonymous (65.81.133.252) |
My husband has recantly started working for a division of Innovage in FL. My husband made $70 in profits on his first day. He now makes an average of $60 dollars a day and this is his second week. His owner seems to really like him. He's offered to supplement our income with his own money for whatever amount our family needs to survive on. He told us to give him a figure of what we need to survive on. My husband told me given his owner follows through with what he says, he still continue to try his best, however, he promised me he would not let our financial situation go down the drain for this company. Either he can make it work, or he can't, he says. My husband is a very strong willed person and is very good in sales. He feels he's getting better and better every day. After reading these different posts, I have become skeptical about this company and the real profits that are made from leaders, managers, owners, etc., Why is my husbands owner is living in a merch-living situation with co-workers, and why does he drive an 'okay' car? Ok, maybe that was a little shallow to think he should be driving a BMW or Lexus, but something just does not seem to be adding up. What is the deal here? I don't think my husband wants to do this forever, actually, I know he doesn't. If anything, we'd use the extra cash to invest in some real estate properties and other investments for our future. We're not wanting to become high-rollers off of this money alone---we'd rather in turn let it create more money.. So basically, we don't need $50,000 to survive. We can easily survive on $22,000 and if we get more, we'll be happy to invest it! But I just want to know the legitmacy of this company and the outcome of being promoted? From the things I'm hearing about ownership and from the owners themselves, it doesn't sound like I'd want my husband to go into ownership. It sounds like I'd much rather him just make a little more money than we usually would in management and invest the rest of the money and move on. Any comments, suggestions, advice, or opinions to share? | ||
| Anonymous (24.2.157.63) |
To the above to people: You want comments or suggestions? Read the very long and informative post dated august 3, 2003 in this thread. Check the msn chat group dsmax the aftermath. You don't have to join, just surf around the site and learn. Yes, many many college graduates have been duped. To the woman above. If your husbands manager lives the way he does, how can he be expected to supplement you? What guarantee do you have that he would continually do this? Especially if your husband gets in a slump? The campaign will change, he will be in different moods ... When you are part of the dsmax business, you are expected to devote everything to it. It becomes your new spouse. The goals of the company will supplant his and yours. Especialy while in the field, he will not make enough money to be able to come up with any kind of real estate investment. As a manager, he might make 40 to 50 k, but he will be expected to use his money to help start other locations that may or may not succeed. And this will be with 70 to 80 hour weeks. But this is IF he ever gets to management. Do you have any idea what kind of turn around and goes around there? How many people quit? How many people spend YEARS in the field and never make it and leave flat broke and in debt? Do you want some kind of financial stability? He would be better off at McDonalds. At least his taxes would be taken out, his pay would be stable and they would not ask him to pay for gas on business trips and then ask him to write it off on his taxes and not reimburse him. Get him out! | ||
| Anonymous (67.8.198.119) |
Anonymous (65.81.133.252) My husband has recantly started working for a division of Innovage in FL. My husband made $70 in profits on his first day. He now makes an average of $60 dollars a day and this is his second week. Id say let the numbers do the talking. $60 X 5 days = $300 per week X 52 weeks = $15,600 per year. This is also before taxes. If you think that a gross annual salary of $15,600 is too low, then work elsewhere. | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.20) |
I am with Cydcor and have decided not to go back tomorrow. I completed 2 very long weeks there for only $150 and still haven't gotten a check. The job was vague from the very beginning. I wasn't told anything about Cydcor but instead thought I was working for an office that promoted First Horizon merchant accounts. I found out just the other day about the history. I didn't like that it was a commission job but I decided it was better than no pay. However, I was given an area an hour away with no money for gas. I was also very uncomfortable with this kind of selling door to door. I didn't really like it and felt more comfortable when I was out pitching with others.I worked hard but somedays seemed helpless. I honestly thought about just going home and not returning. However, I wanted leadership so I came back to the office in the evenings. I noticed some coworkers out of atmosphere looked unhappy. I also couldn't understand why even the ones that were supposed to have money never seemed to have it. Now that I know the truth I can't go back. It was a learning experience and has made me want to seek out real management opportunities that don't require pitching to owners who don't want to be bothered. | ||
| Anonymous (64.252.118.136) |
cydcor is as I had left it years ago; still thriving. It will continue, and many will work there and live it, leave it, and learn from it. If you're lucky enough to learn the right lesson, it was all worth it. Life is sweet after Cydcor, once you learn what is important, and what isn't. Nobody forgets the day they quit Cydcor; it's like breaking out of prison. They said I'd be a loser if I left. I was a loser when I was smiling and screaming Juice on the streets and feeling superior to the 9 to 5'ers. I can't condemn the people at Cydcor, I was one of them once. And out in the field, they're all pretty remarkable people. It's just in that cramped office, with the loud music, and all the phony yelling and smiling, we were so unnatural and inhuman. Well, we were robots. I cried every night, though. Aren't you guys tired yet? You know, it's okay to get tired. It's actually pretty human. It's also okay not to be a slave to your own mind. I know, it gets full of crazy ideas sometimes. | ||
| Jacqueline Guest (65.54.97.153) |
I worked for Wentworth Marketing, aka Cydcor. My owner's name was Ed Cunliffe. He was a money hungry, bastard who worked me to the bone. I hate him and hope that he and his whole marketing scheme blow up in his old, english ass! | ||
| lucky (66.185.84.75) |
Oh man! I am so so so lucky to have stumbled into this website. They are also going by the name of 1 Reality Enterprises Inc. in Canada. I have a "primary interview" tomorrow but obviously I will not be showing up. By the way what can companies like this do with your SIN number. | ||
| Anonymous (69.139.160.25) |
I find it interesting that all the happy Cydcor employees are defensive in a hostile manner toward individuals who have had negative experiences with them. If you disagree with someone's opinion, name-calling them and saying their weak or lazy, is a poor arguement. You should argue with the facts because then your argument is validated, however, being defensive and throwing around petty insults is juvinile. If you consider yourself a professional (like you think you are because of your work experience with Cydcor) then you should know how to present a good arguement in a professional manner and not act as if you are back on the playground. I read in individual's passage that being with this company teaches you how to run an independent business and be a business owner. However, working for this sort of company does not allow you the freedoms to make decisions like a business owner who runs the corner deli as someone put it. You are more similar to running a fast food franchise where you don't have freedoms to make decisions because you have to abide by the guidelines of the corporation. Also, you are the one who accepts the loss. The final point i wanted to make is that does anyone think it is weird that young adults are running this whole operation. If there was real money to be madeand it was as easy and possible as the offices present it to be that more adults would be involved. Maybe they have learned from life experience to stay away from organizations like this one. Finally, if i wanted professional experience am I going to seek advice from a fresh out if college grad/high school graduate who has been working for 2 maybe 3 years or would i want to surround myself with people who know how the field works and have had many many more years experience? No matter how good you are when your young, you still have alot to learn. | ||
| Anonymous (155.104.239.16) |
I lasted only a few weeks in the washington, DC area about 5 years ago. It was tough, but it forces you to hone your communications skills and allows you to approach anybody and I mean anybody. I remember pitching restaurant coupons to a manager of another restaurant in HIS restaurant. Needless to say, I was forceably removed! However, the experience there forces me to realize how good my '9 to 5' job is now. Sure the financial independence might be nice, but I'd rather have a life outside of work than be forced to hang out with people I work with 16 hours a day. | ||
| Anonymous (155.104.239.16) |
Here's a good link that summarizes the pros/cons of the business and how it works, it's helpful for those "Day of O" interviewees who want to make an informed decision- http://wolfram.org/scam/ds_max/index.html | ||
| louis_roy (louis_roy) New member Username: louis_roy Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.169.140.253 |
After spending 9 great years with DSMAX/Cydcor and opening 5 outside offices, traveling all over the world - I voluntarily decided to leave the business and pursue a career in realestate. With 3 years of clearing over $100,000 after expenses and the other 6 years clearing over $75,000 and being a high school drop out - you tell me where you can make that kind of money? Yes the hours are long and you must maintain a positive attitude with great communication skills, it hurts me to hear that some people think that this company is like a "cult" or a "fraud". The people that work the hardest are the ones that will benefit. After my experience with the organization I have learned so many different aspects of business, sales, managing and myself. The percentage of people that do succeed are low and that is only because there are only so many people who are willing to do the %110 that it takes to make it. Before making any negative comments about the organization - take a step back and think about what you could have done better or where you may not have given it your all. | ||
| melly3288 (melly3288) New member Username: melly3288 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 151.205.240.88 |
Skeptical was the word I would use to mention my experience with DS Max. Here I was in a crowd of young adults throwing around a stuffed Rhino. I stuck it out, even after my leader up and jumped ship. I thought it might have been a cult. I thought their stories of success were a little far-fetched. A man with dreams selling pots and pans out of a trunk of a car. That man was to be the founder of this masquerade. I cant completely dog out DS Max, yes, I failed, but that comes with lack of motivation. One thing that I have learned from my experience is that attitude plays a huge part in life. The 5 and 8s they preach, they work in anything. I used DS Max as a stepping stone to prepare myself to go on to make business elsewhere. I dont regret it. I might have wished for more money at that time, but hey, that was on me. I dont have any excuses for my wrong doings. I failed, I moved on. Ds Max instilled goals in my mind, and everyone needs goals. Otherwise, you will never move an inch from where you stand. | ||
| slamdancer (slamdancer) New member Username: slamdancer Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Somehow "The Advertising Group" got a hold of my reseme online and called me for an interview. I'd never heard of them, was a little skeptical, so I checked out there web site, which had the BBB logo on it so I fugured they might be legit and I figured I'd check it out. They overly stressed to dress proffesionally, which was probably the first sign that something was wrong because unless you are mentally retarded of course your gonna wear proffesional clothes to any real interview right? I went in and they gave me this huge like questionaire to fill out and there were a bunch of people waiting to be interviewed. The guy calls in and gives me this speach and is all like " well I'm going to make my choices tonight and if I call you this evening it's good news" like I'm on some kind of reality show were I'm competing against other aplicants in a long procces of ellimination and if they want to hire me I'm the winner. Yeah guy, I saw that show too, learn a new tactic. So that was a little wierd and of course the guy calls me to come in again and see what it's like to go "out into the field", and I'm still not sure if it's a pyramid scheme yet because of the whole bbb symbol and the office is pretty spruced up. I'm thinking there going to have like scheduled meetings with their fortune 500 clients if their legit, so I go in for the second interview, and they send me out with this young moron who is saying all of these cliche things like I'm a leader and I'm assembling a team of leaders and I'm not selling products, I'm selling myself, and averts all questions about wages, sallaries, benefits, ect... but does mention makeing a commision from his sales. He says well talk more about the details at lunch. I'm in his car, end up in a really ghetto neighborhood going door to door watching the guy try and sell generic office supples which are definitly not from a fortune five hundred company or even a fortune 5000 company. So I'm like ok, not advertising at all and not even marketing, this is definitly a pyramid scheme from piecing together "I'm a leader making a team of leaders who will make a team of their own leaders and then I become an owner", I tell the guy I'm over it, and to take me back to my car immediatly. he calls some people to ask them what to do, and then he says that I was informed that I would be with him all day, which wasn't the case, and his hands are tied. I tell him to return me to my vehicle immediatly or I will call the police and have him arrested. He got very upset and said something like "so thats how you want to play me hugh". At this point I was gettin a little concerned for my saftey however I am 6'2 and about 200 pounds and he was a skinny mo fo, and If he didn't start driving me back to my car I was planning to use violence to take control of the situation and take myself back to a police station in his vehicle. Luckily for him he gets back on the phone and got permission to return me to my car, which prior to leaving their office they had me move to a public library parking space, and looking back I should have left right then. In away I kind of felt bad for the poor guy for falling for the scheme, he really seemed to think he was gonna get rich and believed all the recycling cliches coming out of his mouth. So on the way back he was still trying to sell me and just to entertain myself I asked him more about the pyramid scheme he was involved in. This only confirmed that it is beyond the shadow of a doubt a PYRAMID SCHEME, as he continued to explain there are no salaries, no wages, no benefits, only commision of which some else gets most of for being your leader or owner. If any of the Shady ass people whe call themself Leaders or owners of TAG or whatever pseudo title they are operating under are reading this, the only thing your gonna lead is your own stupid ass down into Owning nothing. Point is, trust your first impulse, I think that they are pirating the BBB symbol on their website and must have stollen a BBB plauque from a real buisiness. I don't know how what their doing can possibly be legal, and I think that "The Advertising Group" should be sued for false advertising. If anyone out their is filling a curent civil suit feel free to contact me for a testimonial to help your case. If anyone has had any problems with identity theft as a result of personal info being left on forms, please let me know immediatley so that I can take appropriate action. One positive note, I have learned how to use threats to get results with shady ass mother fuc*ers And If you somehow find yourself going for a second interview with these shaddy mother Fuc*ers, bring a gun because you may literally need it. | ||
| maggithemagpie (maggithemagpie) New member Username: maggithemagpie Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 172.145.124.5 |
Is any of this affiliated with a group known as Top Flight Advertising? They called my this morning for an interview (I submitted a resume through monster.com last night) and decided to go online first and just find out exactly where they're located in Pittsburgh, so that if I did go in for an interview, I'd know where I was going. Welllll............. Although their official site popped up, my eyes fell down onto the link just below it which said the name of the company and then said, "Advertising deceptive company." It wasn't this site but another and although it was mainly complaining abut a group called DS-Max, "Top Flight" was part of the heading (I'm guessing they're partners or something). I just graduated college in December and while I need a job, the last thing I need is to get sucked into some kind of scheme. Now I'm having second thoughts about calling them back for an interview (their message was left on my machine so I haven't actually talked to them yet). I admit that I thought it was odd that I got a call this quickly, but I thought that "hey, maybe I'm just lucky." But I couldn't find them listed in the yellow pages or in the white pages of my phone book and while they do have an official website that I checked out and they claim they've done all kinds of work for big companies (although they only have 3 listed), I still can't find more information about them online anywhere, except for a couple of sites from people complaining about them. I just wasn't sure if "Top Flight" is actually affiliated with these people or if I'm being paranoid about this whole thing. On this other site, people can leave rebuttals and a couple of company members were calling them disgruntled employees, and bragging about how much money they've made in such a short amount of time and how they're already partners after just 4 months with the company (and those things sent up a red flag to me). But as I said, these people were complaing about DS-Max and Cydcor, and didn't mention "Top Flight." However, "Top Flight" is mentioned in the heading and so I was guessing that they had be affiliate somehow, with those other groups. (Message edited by maggithemagpie on January 14, 2005) | ||
| achilles (achilles) New member Username: achilles Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.173.214.100 |
I work for a cydcor pffice called ADDA (Andrew,Donnan,David,and Associates. My first two weeks were awesome. I was not ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. Though I was lying to myself. The people at my office are so brainwashed that they gey angry with me if I have something to do that might interfere with hitting more doors. We dont run around screaming juice, but we do have atmosphere. I look around and see nothing but glazed eyes trying to act positive. I have lied and cheated customers and interviews. I work on the UPS campaign. People are getting screwed by us everyday. If you are a business owner do not get sucked in by my "team". If they say they are from UPS,Quill, or SBC throw them out immediatly. If you are looking for a job and have interviews set up with ADDA, stay far away from them. They will suck the life out of you. I work 13 hour days, never see my family, and still feel like I need to work harder. I make about 25 dollars a day. That is just not enough to survive. Now lets talk about "The Opportunity" The truth about the opportunity is this. Cydcor might incorporate you. They will give you a campaign to work on. Everything is in your name. But if you dont perform, they will pull out leaving you with thousands of dollars due on your lease, utilities, and what you owe your employees. Only about 7% of managers make it. You will not be financially independent. Most of the managers I have seen live with at least four of there employees in one apartment. So in closing, business owners, dont waste your time, you can set up your own UPS account online,order you own office supplies, and negotiate your own phone bill. Do not get involved with ADDA, Brent Clough, or anybody involved with CydCor. I for one am sorry for how I have acted without any honor or integrity. Achilles | ||
| achilles (achilles) New member Username: achilles Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.173.214.100 |
By the way ADDA is located in Dallas TX. Do not reply to any e-mails sent by them. | ||
| adda (adda) New member Username: adda Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.166.161.240 |
Just wanted 2 post a little something about an other deceptive and horrible offspring of CYDCOR in DALLAS, TXADDAA-Andrew, Donnan, David & Associates. So please 4give the extended posting ADDA comically named, or so HE thought, by owner BRENT CLOUGH has been relocated in 2004 from its ghetto location in Dallas/Farmers Branch to an even seedier location in DALLAS off I-35 and Inland Empire near a variety of strip clubs, liquor stores, a few commercial buildings, adult porn stores and the finest fast food establishments one could ever want. Now the reason 4 this post is 2 make aware the people thinking about or may of already started employment under the rule of this tyrant and his self proclaimed empire, ADDA. In case u are wondering, YES, I did work 4 BRENT CLOUGH and his minions 4 about a year. In fact BRENT CLOUGH, still OWES me 2 paychecks totaling close 2 $900.00. And not ONLY is it me he owes back pay 2, but he also OWES several ex-ADDA employees from both of his campaigns QUILL and UPS. Now lets get a little in2 the operation of BRENT CLOUGHS ADDA/CYDCOR/DS-MAX campaigns. We shall start with the 1st, the GLORIOUS UPS campaign originally started in FLORIDA as a test campaign. Here at ADDA in DALLAS, TX the UPS campaign was started with BRENT CLOUGH in early 2003. I was hired on after receiving my congratulation! U have made 2 a second interview and we offer u a position that will lead 2 management speech by DAWN HAYES, ADDAs office admin and BRENT CLOUGHS personal psychological beat up toy. I was excited 2 learn about the new UPS campaign and further growth in2 the ADDA and the CYDCOR family. *** Unfortunately, I started 2 learn that failure was inevitable if not built in 2 the pre-determined of CYDCORs offspring offices. *** 4 further info on my experience based on FACTS of why ADDA or any of CYDCOR/DS-MAX offspring offices and owners please read the thousands of postings on various sites. Such as this site and http://wolfram.org/scam/cydcor.html or http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?submit22=Search+All+The+Latest+Rip-Off+Reports+Now%21&q1=ALL&q2=&q3=&q4=&q5=ds-max&q6=&q7=&searchtype=0 Well, as 4 the UPS campaign, let me just say that it was not ran with HONESTY and PROFESSIONALISM. Instead there were DECITE, ABUSE, LIES and THEFT caused by BRENT CLOUGH the owner of ADDA. 4 example, MICHAEL BRADEY, a great and honest corporate higher up (2nd in command) with UPS in Atlanta, GA helped both the test office in FLORIDA as well as the new office in DALLAS get its feet off the ground. Without his knowledge and especially without his training and approval, BRENT CLOUGHs ADDA office deceived and cheated both UPS, UPSs new account clients and a majority of ADDAs employees both leaders and Retrains. What BRENT CLOUGH had his UPS campaign group do is go out in2 the field, sign up as many new accounts as u can and are u ready 4 this.? He promoted, trained and almost forced his employees 2 have the business owners or secretaries SHIP OUT A PACKAGE on the spot as soon as the UPS account was signed up. What that means is that in order 4 BRENT CLOUGH 2 get PAID the ADDA-UPS reps would have 2 LIE 2 the new account clients and tell them they had 2 ship out something in order 4 their account 2 be ACTIVATED. If the clients had NOTHING 2 ship that day or the next, BRENT CLOUGHS ADDA/REPS were trained 2 have the clients ship out an EMPTY ENVELOPE or even ship out something meaningless as a hand drawn picture or note 2 either themselves at their own business office or even as absurd as their own residence. If they did not ship out that day or the next, BRENT CLOUGH had his reps CONSTANTLY go back to their place of business and almost harass until they finally ship out. Its ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS 4 BRENT CLOUGH. THIS is ALL FACT! There was a time in mid summer 2003 when one of BRENT CLOUGHS ADDA/UPS rep did such practice. When BRENT CLOUGH caught wind that MICHAEAL BRADY or any other UPS CORPORATE REP might have found out, BRENT CLOUGH IMMEDIATELY acted innocent and ignorant of the practice and the way HIS ADDA/UPS reps represented UPS and fired the employee named DEVON without explanation. In fact BRENT CLOUGH yelled, disrespected and threatened DEVON abuse if he saw him again. ALSO, DEVON came back several times later 4 his check and had a difficult if not unsuccessful time collecting his pay. There are many other cases of abuse BY BRENT CLOUGH 2 his employees that include physical, verbal, mental and sexual. He has done one or more of the following: threatened, hit, yelled and cursed at employees like BRENT CRUTCHFIELD, DEVON, MARIA, BRITNEY (actually promoted but held and made 2 look incompetent and eventually fired before getting her office), LANA (accused of stealing from the QUILL Campaign but never proven and fired), KIM, ASHLEY, DARKO, JOHNATHON, BENTLY (who was threatened with a beating 4 allegedly going 2 the movies during his lunch break), JNNIFER CORRNISH (who was OWNER of EMPIRE MARKETING located in the same OFFICE with BRENT CLOUGH and was constantly harassed and disrespected in front of employees in both atmosphere and meetings. She eventually quit!), BRANDON, MARY, CHRIS just 2 name a few!! BRENT CLOUGH OPENLY does drugs such as cocaine with selected employees and drinks an enormous amount of alcohol both at his office and after hours usually with employees. He sexually harasses new women he finds attractive and worth the having sex with. ONCE he conquers a particular girl, so he claims, BRENT CLOUGH is known 2 brag about his conquests in leaders meetings, privately among selected individuals and at times amongst people in the dreaded JUICED Up atmosphere social hour. In conclusion, BRENT CLOUGH and his little empire ADDA is a place of ILL REPUTE. Its a place of deception and abuse to his employees and campaigns. Its a place where theft of money from his employees and campaigns take place and are covered up with threats, lies and forged numbers on the books. Its a place where drunkenness, high on drugs, sexual harassment and disrespect 2 employees occur on an almost daily basis. In conclusion, my mission or goal is 2 make people aware of this ONE PARTICULAR CYDCOR offspring office, BRENT CLOUGHS ADDA in DALLAS, TEXAS. Please 4 u and ur family, stay away from this HORRIBLE man, his employment and the scam or cult as some has called it, CYDCOR/DS-MAX. U are better off with real employment and real honest pay and work anywhere else. GOD Bless U and Ur Family. Anonyms. p.s 4give me 4 any misspelled names including | ||
| lawstudent123 (lawstudent123) New member Username: lawstudent123 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.176.79.77 |
First off, I met Brent Clough a few years back whan I worked for the company. I don't really have an opinion but I know of this other manager who was good friends with him and whose company went under and now he's in rehab. IF YOU ARE A PART OF THIS COMPANY RUN!!!!!!!!!!! I know that you think I am just trying to "neg" you out. But I'm not. I'm trying to make you not waste a year and a half of your life like I did. I was with the company for 18 months. Same stuff that everyone else is saying. I was "impulsed" into moving to a far away place. I had to live in an apartment w/ my boss and he stopped paying rent one day. But he was so deceptive he failed to ever sign the lease so now the rest of us are in litigation w/ the apartment complex. I would sue him but the thought of ever being in the same room with him again makes me want to puke!! My apartment was so ghetto there was a shooting there one night. I finally got myself out of it and LUCKILY I was able to go home to my parents. Right after I quit I couldn't get out of bed for a week. My mom finally dragged me to a therapist, where I found out I was suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. My manager lied to me, stole from me, worked me into the ground. I was too exhausted to do anything about it so I kept going through the motions. Now I have my life back, I went to lawschool (Law review top of my class) and DSMax just made me think I was this big failure. PS When I was in NY on a road trip I was in a terrible car accident. I was in the hospital etc. My boss NEVER called to check if I was okay, then when I came back a few days later, he yelled at me for keeping his "guys" in NY too long. I had broken bones and I was really messed up and he yelled at me. But I stayed. I know now I was completely brainwashed, with my frame of mind now I would NEVER subject myself to that type of abuse. I could never put anyone on because I felt so guilty about subjecting someone to the job, I couldn't make sales because I felt like a slimpy salesperson liar. Which I was. I wish this company could be taken apart. Why isn't it illegal for them to do this. It's so messed up. | ||
| geokstr (geokstr) Intermediate Member Username: geokstr Post Number: 220 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.158.185.136 |
First of all, I am not affiliated with this company and have never worked for an MLM company before. I have always been just an employee of legitimate major corporations. This whole thread, as well as many others on this site, is so off-topic of what this site is supposed to be all about that it's laughable. This site is supposed to be all about CULTS, and most people here haven't a CLUE about what a cult is. MLM (multi-level-marketing) is basically just a pyramid scheme like a chain letter where the first few make a ton of money, the next level less, then next level less than that, until you get to the last level, where no one makes anything. There is often no product sold to the public; rather, much of the money comes from entry dues and fees from new members. I certainly would never work for one, and the practice is deceptive, but as far as I know, legal. In this one it sounds like the best money is made by the highest managers on overrides from poorly paid salespeople. SO WHAT? In any company, the highest level managers make the most money and the lowest level employees the least. That's part of the incentive to work hard; to get to be a top level manager and make lots of money. No one is ever forced OR tricked into working for an MLM company, and no one is coerced or brain-washed into staying either. One of the great things about this country and capitalism is that NO ONE is forced to stay in ANY job they don't like, or that they think is less than legitimate, or where they believe they are being treated poorly or are underpaid. If you are subject to any of those, LEAVE and find a company that appreciates your contribution. The one you left is the real loser, right? To call a company a CULT because it demands you work hard or long hours or do things you don't like to do or where you have to make sacrifices to succeed borders on the ludicrous. It appears that anything that doesn't give you instant gratification MUST be a cult, right? From what I can tell, most of the people posting to this thread seem to be younger; i.e., under 30-35. I'm a lot older, and in our generation, it was actually well known that you had to sacrifice and work damn hard to succeed. The MTV generation has been convinced that the world owes them something, and that they should get to have it all; success, money, leisure time, toys, and that they do not have to pay a stiff price for those things. Grow up. | ||
| mikeraphon (mikeraphon) New member Username: mikeraphon Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 141.116.73.147 |
The description of this message board: Potentially Destructive Corporate Cults. Is your corporation guilty of enforcing cultic behaviour or using mind control? What are your personal experiences? This category includes Multi-Level Marketing (MLM)companies. geokstr says No one is ever forced OR tricked into working for an MLM company, and no one is coerced or brain-washed into staying either. Maslow says, in his hierarchy of needs: There are two types of esteem needs. First is self-esteem which results from competence or mastery of a task. Second, there's the attention and recognition that comes from others. This is similar to the belongingness level, however, wanting admiration has to do with the need for power. People who have all of their lower needs satisfied, often drive very expensive cars because doing so raises their level of esteem. "Hey, look what I can afford-peon!" The need for self-actualization is "the desire to become more and more what one is, to become everything that one is capable of becoming." People who have everything can maximize their potential. They can seek knowledge, peace, esthetic experiences, self-fulfillment, oneness with God, etc. It is usually middle-class to upper-class students who take up environmental causes, join the Peace Corps, go off to a monastery, etc. Now, the point is that this board is intending to discuss the existence of corporate cults. DS MAX, CYDCOR, INNOVAGE, whatever they're calling themselves, is in fact a corporate cult. They create an environment that leverages the top two needs in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs in order to keep the lowest people going out into the field. Sure, you're not "forced" to go to work, but it's driven into your head that if you can't make this work, you probably can't make anything work. If you can't make anything work, then you won't achieve your self esteem needs. If you don't fulfill your self esteem needs, you'll have no chance of fulfilling your self-actualization needs. If you don't fulfill your.....you know what, I know I'm having trouble paying my rent, but I'm not going to be "that guy"...I'm going to make it, dammit...Let's hit the field..... I worked with people who we (the manager and I) knew would NEVER EVER make it to management. They simply did not have what it took. Now, did my manager fire that person? Of course not. Having him in the field, making himself $80 a day was too important to the manager. Let's say you have 10 guys in the field all making $100 a day. That's decent, right? You, the manager make $.25 to the dollar on all their sales. At the end of the day, you (manager) make $250 a day to their $100 a day. You make $1250 per week to their $500 per week. Have you ever tried to live on $100 a day? Maybe in your generation that was feasible, but not these days. Try living in Southern California and making $500 a week. | ||
| amoydragons (amoydragons) New member Username: amoydragons Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 165.21.154.16 |
can anyone provide me a copy of their independent distributorship agreement and the contracts they sign with various clients (restaurants/spa etc) ? | ||
| amoydragons (amoydragons) New member Username: amoydragons Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 165.21.154.13 |
by the way, i also need to know how the managers dealt with the paper works like the daily master, vouchers, claims, expenses etc. I used to work for them for about 5 months. got promoted to a team leader with 5 team members. left the business because they lied about most of the things. I feel cheated and i want to collect more informations to get them behind bars for their evil doings. | ||
| lac5q (lac5q) New member Username: lac5q Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.74.223.220 |
I"m so glad I found this website. I just had an interview with Modern Career Concepts in San Diego and this company does the same exact stuff as The Advertising Group - TAG in Los Angeles. I hope other people find this and it helps them from making the mistake I almost made. This is a cult/pyramid scheme with little reward for 99% of the people. And to those that stay, I feel for you. The owner of the office I just saw, got hit by a car last year and went into the office (against her doctors orders) and now has a staff infection and can't even talk - regardless she's in the office. How awful is that? | ||
| bodine696 (bodine696) New member Username: bodine696 Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 24.0.177.226 |
Thanks so much for the info on Andrew, Donnan, David & Assoc! I replied to their ad on Monster and got a call from them less than 4 hours later which raised a big red flag for me. Not that I don't think my resume is fabulous but I've wasted time with these kind of phony "interviews" before and when they classified themselves as an outsourced marketing company I was curious. I'm so glad I found this site before wasting another afternoon on a pointless interview! | ||
| cardtable (cardtable) New member Username: cardtable Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 24.205.38.119 |
A good indicator that this whole thing is going to be a door-to-door sales type job is when the guy tells you to show up on your second interview dressing "professionally" and wear "comfortable shoes". Also, how often do you get the interviewer calling you an hour later telling you how much of a pleasure it was to interview you and how impressed he is with your resume. The exact pitch is: "We've had the opportunity to interview many candidates, unfortunately, many are not invited back for a second interview. You however, exhibit the qualities that our company is looking for. Remember, we're not looking for high power sales reps. We have plenty of that working out in the field. What we need is a manager that has the ability to lead a team of leaders. Think of this (the sales position) as a way of proving your self." Any way, I went with this guy on my second interview just to get glimpse on how they operate. To my surprise, the law of averages really works!!! Out of the whole eight hours he made one sales for $40.00. But, I really can't imagine myself climbing the corporate ladder by going door to door selling office supplies. All in all, it was a good experience and I get the lessons I needed. This thing isn't everyone's cup of tea but, if you're unemployed and are desperate for a job, its a good place to start. They'll hire just about any joe who could at least speak a little bit of English. | ||
| sticknmove (sticknmove) New member Username: sticknmove Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.252.141.7 |
It's been awhile since I gave much thought to this group and their tactic of preying on the young, ambitious, & naive. My experience with this group goes back further than most of yours. In fact, it pre-dates the internet. I'm happy to see so many that have been burnt & almost burnt have this tool to help warn others. I'm also happy to say that my story ends with payback for this group that goes beyond an internet post (more on that later). I started with DS-Max (then called Wholesale Warehousing Industries WWI) in Chicago and spent the better part of 14 months covering parts of 1990 & 1991 chasing the phantom promises of this group and, sadly, becoming myself a tool used to decieve others. Like most, I was young, ambitious, and very naive. let's face it, when you're 21 you don't have many job opportunities that don't involve minimum wage and a cash register. Ironically, minimum wage would have been a welcome sight after my 14 months with DS-Max. While I was constantly one of the leading trainers (I guess now called 'leaders') used as an example to others, I was barely able to keep gas in my car. Keep in mind people, I HAD NOT A SINGLE MONTHLY BILL OF ANY KIND. I still lived with my parents who's warnings fell on deaf, brainwashed ears. I didn't have so much as a car payment, worked 80-100 hour weeks, and still could barely afford to eat. The other leaders in the office would go 4 - 6 people in a sh***y small apartment and I could never fathom how they even did that. They were always complaining to each other about not being able to eat & make ends meet (privately of course - in the office it was juice, juice, juice!!) I can blame no one but myself. Back then, there were two offices in Chicago (until my PAYBACK anyway - I'll get to that) and the writing was clearly on the wall. Both office 'owners' were obvious slime and most of the guys that came with them to open Chicago were nice guys but it was clear they were broke and really, sadly, lived like Hobos. Someone mentioned earlier (see 10-28-04) that DS-Max knows how to lure people. They know - through years of trial & error - how to push the right buttons. They even know what your family & friends will say and have you pre-conditioned to respond ("When I started everyone said how goofy this sounded . . etc.). They have even hi-jacked general principles of the successful and use them to their advantage, so in a way, it makes sense. I thought "yeah, no one has ever acheived anything worthwhile without suffering a bit", "Yeah, the typical business owner often goes a long time without making money . . if i can just hang in there long enough". The very fact that the 'owners' I worked for were such low-lifes (one couldn't spell his own name) actually inspired me. I just kept thinking "if heeeee could do it . . .". To those of you that are actually able to pull positives out of your experience with DS - Max, and I'm talking to those of you that REALLY TRIED and gave it your life, I commend your ability to see the silver lining, but . . . I still think you're kidding yourselves. YES, I was proud of my ability to go so long, and work so hard for so little, but YOU COULD GO ANYWHERE and work long hard hours and actually acheive something worthwhile AND be rewarded for it. Your "At least I learned to work hard" logic is like saying those that survived concentration camps "at least learned how to perservere" (very extreme example I admit, but SAME LOGIC). If I would have put that same time & effort into real estate, for example, I could have been a wealthy 20-something. Wait . .. there was one positive . . . My story of Reciprocity (what you've been waiting for): When I left DS-Max in late 1991 - broken hearted and peniless after 14 months of sweatshop work - I naturally took some time to de-program. Shortly after, I found a group that LEGITIMATELY was invloved in the same book business as DS-Max's book division that I was in (what book division, you ask? hahahaha - keep reading). This new company was legitimate and owned by publisher Publications International (PI). They saw all these low-life type groups like DS-Max in the direct-sell book business and decided, since they had superior products, they could do it better. But . . . they really didn't know how to do it. They needed someone that was good, real good, and someone that knew how to train reps to travel across the country and train reps in all of the offices they were going to open, but . . . who? Yeah, who? Well, 17 offices later, yours truly had travelled the country training reps from all over the place. EVERY new PI office had a local DS-Max office that it was crushing in book sales. I know. My very first week with the company was short (I started on a Wednesday) and I still MADE MORE $ in that shortened week than ANY SINGLE week in my 14 months at DS-Max. Superior products and reps making real $. Our reps would run into DS-Max reps and have fun with their stories of how they were going "to be a millionaire in three months". My new employer had a philosophy that DS-Max has never learned: treat people well, don't lie to them, and give them a fair chance to actually be rewarded for their work. A short while later, I was promoted to management and opened an office - guess where? - two blocks from my old DS-Max office in Alsip, IL (that was utterly dependent on books!)!! Well . . . not for long though. I heard the riff-raff owner I had slaved for had to close his office. I heard he also soon developed a coke (not the drink) habit and his wife left him taking what little was left. So much for his exploitation of the misery of others. Could'nt have happened to a nicer guy, but truth is they're all the same. I know they still sell books, but because of the national a** - kicking we gave them, I have heard they do not have a full-fleged book division anymore. They just sort of 'direct-sell' a few books in their clearance division. Well, later I would move on to my current kick-a** career that allows me great employment, security for my family, and the opportunity to travel the world. So . . . if you're young and just getting over being sucked dry by this evil (yes, evil) group, just hang in there - you'll be ok!! To those that get on this board and gush about how much $$ you make by being a DS-Max owner: # 1 - I don't beleive you - afterall, you are a PROFESSIONAL LIAR or # 2 - You're making that money on lies and the exploitation of others. You are evil and slime. So . . . if you're a current profitable owner (rare), VP, or an Executive of DS-Max, I want you go go home and look into the eyes of your children. You are feeding those children with the misery of others. I doubt you'll ever have the courage to face that truth. Think about it . . . If only there could be a study of exactly how many young & ambitious kids had their enthusiasm and ambition broken by DS-Max it would be mind-boggling. These young people learned the lesson that blood, sweat,tears, and taking a chance DO NOT PAY OFF. That is the real crime of DS-Max. | ||
| cryssy12 (cryssy12) New member Username: cryssy12 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.19.241.167 |
Well as for all you people who think that this is a cult, you are idiots who just dont understand the business. I now work for a marketing firm under Cydcor, and we are the number one office in the country by the way on our campaign, and I am just fine! Maybe the people you all know were either off their rocker in the first place, or you just didn't understand the opportunity they were given. Yes I will say I work hard, and I do work long hours, (not 80 - 100 hrs. a week, that was a bit of an exaggeration dont ya think!) But in the world we live in if you want anything you have to work hard to get it. And as for you people saying you couldn't even eat, I have made $2500 in August and still have a week to go, I think I'm eating just fine! But I will say this business is not cut out for everyone, maybe, for all you people who have tried it and are now here freaking out about it, it wasn't for you obviousely. But anyway, I just wanted to clear things up, because I think it is really sad that you guys are discouraging people from working here without them hearing both sides of the story. I love my job, and I love the money I make. All you suckers out there that quit and are now working a minimum wage job, and spending you free time on here talking about the opportunity you lost (perhaps your bitter about it) get a life, please! Anyway, gotta go, I have money to make, and opportunities to reach! | ||
| curiousbcadda (curiousbcadda) New member Username: curiousbcadda Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.245.24.213 |
I want to hear anything, positive or negative, that anyone who has firsthand knowledge can tell me about Brent Clough of ADDA in Texas. Did he really use drugs ? Can you give me any personal information about him ? Like where he lives, ect..He says he was recently fired himself. Are there any witnesses out there? I would like recent happenings if possible but any info will do. | ||
| cardtable (cardtable) New member Username: cardtable Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 66.214.140.72 |
Cryssy12 How long have you been working for Cydcor? | ||
| cryssy12 (cryssy12) New member Username: cryssy12 Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.32.194.52 |
cardtable... I have been working there for 4 months | ||
| cryssy12 (cryssy12) New member Username: cryssy12 Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.146.143.182 |
just a note.... I made $1400 this week!! | ||
| sticknmove (sticknmove) New member Username: sticknmove Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.252.141.7 |
cryssy, if (and granted I'm saying IF) what you're saying is true that's nice for you but it still doesn't really prove anything. You & I both know your earnings are anything but typical - even by your own admission. Why just a few weeks ago you were actually bragging about working long hours going door-to-door to make a whopping $2,500 over an approximate three+ week period. Don't get me wrong, that's not terrible money for someone your age (I assume you are young 20's?) and if you feel you're being adequately rewarded for your work - great. Keep doing it until you're not, but . . . I have to say I'm skeptical about your claim. The organization you work for (yes, you work FOR them) is the master of the 'half truth'. In other words, they'll promote the sh** out of the fact that one person made $700 in a week, for example, but forebid mention of 14 others that made less than $200. You're just spouting more of the same 'half truth' mentality you've been subtly trained to. As the old saying goes "a half truth is a whole lie". So . . . even IF cryssy is telling the truth you can bet we won't be getting her earnings reports when she gets put on a bad promotion and is unable to put gas in her car, which ANYONE who has ever done ANY time with this group has seen happen many times. Think about it: if just being a field sales rep in itself like cryssy was profitable then how come in the entire history of this company - with MILLIONS of people coming through the doors - not ONE person has ever stayed a field rep much beyond two years? I heard of one guy that was in the field four years and I'm sure that was a Cydcor / DS-Max record! In the normal work world four years of employment is nothing - in Cydcor / DS-Max it's a freak happening. Again, if people were really being rewarded for their work and making real money - opportunity or not - they would stick around, right? But, they don't. No one ever does and neither will cryssy. PS - Just another note cryssy . . . I made more than you did this week without working 60 hours and going door to door!! (Message edited by sticknmove on September 12, 2005) | ||
| cryssy12 (cryssy12) New member Username: cryssy12 Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.149.141.35 |
Well! I am glad you are going to get on here and judge me, just because you couldn't handle it! And If you knew anything at all about cydcor, you'd know why people aren't in the field for 4 years. It is a management training program, people are only in the field around 8 months. Then they become managers of their own office, and they dont go in the field anymore. And good for you that you made some money this week, but like I said in the above paragraph, I am in training, I will be making about 4 times this amount when I become a manager. You also say going door to door like its bad, maybe people just didn't like you! I like it just fine! I haven't made less than $700 a week, since july. I am really sorry you are bitter, try not to be jealous and get over it! | ||
| sticknmove (sticknmove) New member Username: sticknmove Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.252.141.7 |
cryssy, I'm not at all judging you and I don't in any way wish any harm or failure on you - quite the opposite. Afterall, you have fallen victim to the same scam I did when I was your age (again, I assume you are young 20's by your writing style and the average age of Cydcor prey). But . . . I'm not going to let your deceptive remarks go unanswered either. When you make a comment like saying people aren't in the field "any longer than 8 months because they become managers of their own office" you are being intentionally deceptive. You know damn well for every person who leaves the field in 8 months because they made management there are, literally, thousands who left because they were working 60 hour weeks doing grueling work for sub-minimum wage. In my 14 months with DS-Max I knew many people in multiple offices and I only saw two people promoted to management - both of whom were in the field much longer than a year, and both of whom opened offices that went under within a few years after that. Keep in mind that is TWO OUT OF HUNDREDS of people I knew and worked with - and both of them ended up nowhere. I'm sorry. You are chasing a pipe dream. Getting into mangement with Cydcor is not the road to riches you think it is. Many of the "9 to 5 schmucks" you run into every day and look down on make more money and have better lives than most Cydcor office owners - and they don't make their money exploiting people like you & I. As far as my "not cutting it", go back and read my post from last month. I did make management with a more legit company after DS-Max and was a major reason for the DS-Max office I once worked for going under! I had a few old friends there who told me mere mention of my name was forbidden in my old office - hilarious!! So . . . I don't get your logic - I 'couldn't cut it' with an office I helped put out of business!? and my being bitter . . . that's rich. I'm one of the happiest persons you'll meet. I have a great career that richly rewards me, I married the love of my life and I have two angelic daughters, I have sizeable investments and own my own house and two other investment properties - what the heck is there to be bitter about!? Ok cryssy, this is what we'll do - talk is cheap and here's your chance to prove you are on the road to Cydcor success: you said a month ago you've been with Cydcor for four months - that means you've been with them for five months now, right? Then you said Cydcor reps are not in the field for longer than eight months because they get promoted, right? Ok, so you'll post again here, say, in mid-December with news of your new office, right? This is how you'll prove that all of us who've seen young people used, exploited, and sucked-dry just didn't get it - that Cydcor really is a great opportunity. Keep in mind now, you'll be held accountable - you'll have to provide details. So . . . your report (or lackthereof) three months from now in December will be here for all to see. This will be a permanent case study on Cydcor that will be here indefinitely. We'll be waiting cryssy - talk is cheap! get going rhino - juice, juice!! ( : | ||
| yorky (yorky) New member Username: yorky Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.186.146.168 |
I'll be waiting! Great advice sticknmove. Crssy12, I wish you luck. | ||
| andrea127 (andrea127) New member Username: andrea127 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.218.100.62 |
Cydcor, DSmax, and Granton are the names of the companies that started the wondrous world of door-to-door sales we know today. Now, most of us know the independent offices, which is where we all did our 1st and 2nd interviews. From the sounds of it, some of them are cults. I work for an office that sells phone service. (Since it is a service it is a division of Cydcor. My understanding is that DSmax sells actual products and Granton does coupons.) We don't say "juice" and we DO tell people who are interviewing that they will be going door-to-door. If I take an interview out, I will pay for their lunch, it’s only polite. My manager asks me all the time if I would like to be reimbursed. We all have fun, and we all have lives separate from the business. I go out with my coworkers as much as other people go out with theirs. I like the people I work with…its kinda nice that way. I'm doing well and I've seen three people make it to management and become successful in my five months. I don't know if I will make it or not, but I tell you there is a lot to learn. I've had plenty of jobs and I studied business and communications for four years at UMASS. The point is, the five steps to a conversation, factors of impulse, and great work habits are the common denominator to every successful business. I admit some offices have altered their meanings to a point that makes them cheesy or at times seem misleading. But when this business model it taught correctly it is effective and you will see versions of it all over corporate America. As far as the atmosphere, different offices take it to different levels. We clap for someone who has done well, but we don’t get ridiculous. Most all sales jobs have the same rallies. It wakes people up in the morning and at night it is a time to congratulate people who did well and help those who didn’t. And sometimes it’s nice to have fun at work… I’ve worked for a couple “normal” companies in my time, and guess what? They wanted me to work hard everyday on salary, but still put in over time without extra pay. Although the days I didn’t want to do anything I still got paid, too bad I can’t be lazy anymore. They wanted me to cold call people too. That’s what happens in business. If you work in marketing you will have to cold call at some point. If you work in PR you will have to cold call. If you work at a non-profit or in education, at some point you will have to cold call. All of these arenas will have you cold call people at some point, pitch them and get them to agree with what you have to say. You can’t get anywhere without starting from scratch. Where do you currently work? How do they get business? How do they get funding? Why do rich CEO’s go golfing together? Maybe to build relationships and pitch someone on an investment… Do you think the person managing your current office really cares how you are doing today? So what about the money? I could have gone into law like I was planning and be a couple hundred grand in debt and put in just as much time with a two percent chance of being highly successful. Who knows I could still end up doing that someday… I don’t make tons of money now, I take home $500 a week which is what most of my friends make too. I pay my bills and can still afford to go out a couple times a week. All in all, business is what makes the world go round; it only becomes corrupt when people stop asking questions. If you work for a company that won’t answer them, then you are absolutely right -- get out. I have not had that experience and I certainly do ask a lot of questions. Glad I never worked for Enron…or took a job at Dell just to be laid off…or became a professor and not offered benefits. Sorry for not keeping it short and simple…I probably lost most peoples attention by now… Andrea from MA | ||
| andrea127 (andrea127) New member Username: andrea127 Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.218.100.62 |
One more thing.... If there has been some sort of illegal activity at a business you have worked for, REPORT IT! | ||
| aburak (aburak) New member Username: aburak Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.16.11.254 |
Enough of this BS. I worked for Cydcor Portland office for 2,5 years. I made money. Not 100K a year, but enough to save, live in downtown Portland, go to my country back and forth and learn a great variety of experience in selling and assisting/managing people. Are there sales jobs better than the one Cydcor offers? Yes... Off course... Many manager's at cydcor will try to keep people at the company. That's their job. Keep people, take them to the next level and have the office generate more and more sales. This is sales guys. Be smart!!! If you don't like it, quit and find a better job. I did and now I am a manager at a merchant processing company, managing 12 people and getting paid a good salary + bonuses. Do you know why I got hired directly as a manager? The VP of Sales at the company I work at at the moment knows much about cydcor and he only hires ex-cydcor people. We all know that the conditions at cydcor are harsh and really out of boundries from the work hours and ethic standpoint. However, once you can good at Cydcor, there is nothing else you CAN'T do. | ||
| sticknmove (sticknmove) New member Username: sticknmove Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.252.141.7 |
Aburak: I disagree with so much of what you say, but you at least seem to have common sense in your approach to your time at Cydcor. This is evident by the fact that you don't blather on & on in a child-like way of the millions you're going to make at Cydcor. By your own admission "There are better jobs than Cydcor" and "conditions at Cydcor are harsh and really out of boundries from the work hours and ETHIC standpoint . . .". So, on those last two points we agree. So . . . that leaves our old friend CRYSSY. IF (and granted I'm saying IF) she's still at Cydcor, she's now been there 8 months - the amount of time she earlier wrote that she would become a "manager of her own office" by (see earlier posts). CRYSSY is our permanent case study on Cydcor, so let's see how her new office is doing, shall we? CRYSSY, oh CRYSSY . . . YOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!! CRYSSY!! CRYSSY? Well, it looks like the cat has CRYSSY's tongue . . . cat and stacks of credit card debt and parking tickets she's accumulated if she's like most Cydcor / DS Max employees. In the meantime, here's a funny article written by a former Cydcor employee. This is by one Ryan Lipscomb - a featured writer for miscmedia.com. I do not know Ryan, but his experience at Cydcor will give you a GOOD depiction of life there. Much more realistic and typical than the deceptive CRYSSY, and even the more realistic Aburak. Make note of this guy's earnings for the time he spent there - and see if you can pick up the not-so-subtle things they do to foster a cult-like environment and "lock people in" (a Cydcor / DS Max term, not mine). He has a funny writing style, so I'm sure you'll enjoy . . . MOST DEGRADING JOB: Feel free to disregard this, but I must vent. I worked for a company called DSMax. They call themselves an advertising and marketing firm. They are lying. I could probably write a book about what was horrible about this job, but here's a handy list instead. 1. 4:45 a.m. Wake up, shower, put on mandatory shirt and tie. 2. 5:45 a.m.-7 a.m. Commute 1.25 hours to DSMax branch office in Norristown, PA. 3. 7 a.m.-9 a.m. Engage in motivational cheering sessions and spirit-building exercises with fellow "representatives." ("Where we going?" "To the top!" "WHERE WE GOING?" "TO THE TOP!" "When?" "Now!" "When?" "Now!" "WHEN WHEN WHEN?" "NOW NOW NOW!!!" And other humiliations too numerous and depraved to list. Let me just say there was "hand jive" involved.) Listen in quiet horror as co-workers enthusiastically discuss pro wrestling/soap operas/fanatical, cultish commitment to DSMax/plans for all the money they'll make once they get promoted to branch manager. Take note of surprising number of co-workers who've quit since you started. Envy them. 4. 9 a.m. Commute back to Philadelphia in order to walk door-to-door in the run-down ghetto business districts of West Philly. In December. Peddling long-distance phone service to local small business owners (i.e. hair salons, corner stores, dive bars (people drinking straight vodka at 10 a.m.), garages, endless parade of delis and other shithole restaurants, etc.) Do this until 5 p.m. Return to "office" (really just one large rumpus room) during rush hour. 4a. Locate potential client (e.g., sucker). Check soul at door. "Pitch." Trudge, defeated, out door OR (rarely) attempt have customer sign multiple contracts and make multiple phone calls to complete sale. Trudge forlornly out door when customer informs you that he/she "don't have time for this ••••." 5. 6 p.m. Return to office. Ring small bell, large bell, or gong, according to your sales performance for the day. Calculate commission. Choke back tears at realization that commission will not pay rent and there is NO BASE PAY. Gather round for another session of cheering and practice pitching (just follow your five steps and your eight steps!--DSMax's keys to success, in addition to trite little coffee mug aphorisms and the sort of pithy acronyms that Judge Judy would find clever: KISS--"Keep It Simple Stupid"). Fend off barrage of entreaties by over-zealous co-workers to attend post-work DSMax get-togethers at nearby Applebee's. 6. 8 p.m. Return home. Microwave taste-free/nutrition-free food because you are too tired, beaten to cook. Complain to sig. other. 7. 9 p.m. Pass out on couch in front of mindless television. 8. 1 a.m. Wake up on couch. Get up and go to actual bed. Cry self back to sleep. 9. Repeat steps 1-8. I lasted five weeks. I probably made a total of $1,500. A part of me died that I will never get back | ||
| mkgray69 (mkgray69) New member Username: mkgray69 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.113.186.109 |
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