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Treasure Traders International - Thre...

FACTNet Message Board » Corporations » Treasure Traders » Treasure Traders International - Thread 2

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Pyramid Scheme Article gatordave 978 3 3-13-06 7:18 am

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bruce_audley (bruce_audley)
New member
Username: bruce_audley

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.53.28.106

Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 1:04 pm:

Hi folks! By now I figured one side or the other would have won this battle but it appears that there may be a bit yet that has been left unsaid. This thread will give us a new page that will not require anywhere near the time to download and, will therefore provide more time in which to pontificate. I am not sure which side will benefit but, the clean page is refreshing don't you agree?

bruce_audley (bruce_audley)
New member
Username: bruce_audley

Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.53.28.106

Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 1:13 pm:

Stalker - Wow! You remind me of a large bear in a cage, being poked with a small stick! I for one am glad that you are on OUR side!

Bruce

the_truth (the_truth)
Junior Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 44
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 5:06 pm:

What a coincidence...even in thread 2, TTI is still perfectly legal. Let's just wait and see who will be the first to post a lie in this thread.

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.95.28.14

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 12:06 am:

The first lie is the one above!!!

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.70.206.90

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 2:27 am:

TO:>>> "THE TRUTH THE TRUTH god BLESS god BLESS" & "VOICE OF TREASON"

Your dogmatic attempts to cling to a mathematically debunked enigma is superseded only by your callousness, lack of empathy, and you�re disgusting �blessings� on all that is evil. You continue to make fun of the horrors that are the end result of pyramid and Ponzi schemes.

Imagine what will happen if students who have been taken for $1200 refuse to accept the loss and hide with embarrassment like so many women did in the last fraud. Imagine if they go to there �friends� and tell him I thought I was supposed to make thousands of dollars in this and I haven�t made anything I want my money back!!! $2600 is irrecoverable from TTI and probably most of the other money is spent. Now you have a group of disgruntled students, pursuing one �brainwashed� individual. And what about a backlash from the parents. You heartless degenerates.

Now, since you like to make sport out of the harm your pyramid schemes do, perhaps you like to share with the politicians and citizens of my small community my thoughts and demands for action. That last scheme, ripped into my community and destroyed personal friendships, business relations and confidence in the police and totally destroyed my life you insensitive degenerates.

GRAFT AND CORRUPTION, MUNICIPALITY OF KINCARDINE

November 22, 2004 (6:14am)

To the Kincardine Mayor, Council, Police Services Board and Citizens of Kincardine.

Your police need investigating as do many of your corrupt politicians.

Mhairi Walsh received thousands of dollars in the �Women Helping Women� pyramid fraud The �Muffin Club.� Meetings held at her home where women were coerced into parting with $5,000 each.

She was then awarded �Citizen of the Year� in spite of the fact police and politicians in that town knew of her involvement in this fraud. She ran these pyramid frauds from a few hundred dollars per person to at least $5,000 per person. Jan Johnstone, who ran as an M.P.P., was defeated then elected to the school board. Their involvement in this multi billion-dollar pyramid fraud was common knowledge in Kincardine.

Maureen Poulten wife or partner Don Poulten Re/Max broker in town held meetings in her dress shop in connection with this huge pyramid fraud with the knowledge of politicians, police and others of authority in Kincardine.

The public had a right to know their politicians were involved in a huge fraud when they went to the polls. This was a massive corrupt �coverup� by your police, politicians, and even your two newspapers who gutlessly refused to mention the names of a these politicians, or even the fact there were unnamed politicians involved. The Kincardine news printed �seven local area women have been charged.� When the police refused to charge them , but instead discriminated, and charged a Farmer�s wife in Tiverton, and the maritime widow living in Southampton, who had no political connections, were not wives of lawyers, or politicians, nor were they advertisers in local newspapers, the story of your corrupt politicians, lawyers wife, Re/Max broker�s wife or partner, and Mari Walsh and the rest of the scum in your town, was �killed�. I, and I believe others would like to know why, and how much power your corrupt police hold over citizens and the press. And we intend to find out in the next few weeks ahead.

My wife Julia Sandel Ranney, a former missionary, was persuaded to secretly join this corruption in the fall of 1999 after agreeing with me the year before in 1998 not to get involved, because as I explained to her, it was illegal, and certainly immoral and it would be women, abused women, the abused women this scam used as a ruse pretending to help, to enlist recruits, the women who could least afford it that in the end would be persuaded to max out credit cards and would be the real losers when their abusive husbands found $5,000 cash on the credit card and nothing to show for it after this filthy scheme collapsed and the dirty lawyer�s wives, filthy corrupt politicians, real estate agents, the wife of Jerry Roberts the director of the Board of Education London, Mrs. Thompson, of Thompson brother furniture in Paisley, retired Walkerton District schoolteacher Evelyn Dargie, relatives of police officers and judges received their filthy �blood� money. Now, If any of you people again want to write this off as the �ranting and raving� from a mentally disturbed former Citizen, I suggest you read carefully and digest �EACH AND EVERY WORD�

This abusive pyramid was supposed to help abused women. This dirty filthy fraud that your politicians and people of authority perpetuated, I thought was some small group trying to start up. I had no idea that so many of you upstanding citizens would ever even contemplate doing something like this. It swept Canada, went into the United States. Women in Sacramento California were found with $12.000,000. Police, lawyers, doctors, politicians, firefighters, etc. were involved. This is acknowledged by the Attorneys General of a host of US States who had the intestinal fortitude to condemn police and politician's involved. In this secret society police, politicians, and even the Attorney General of this province did what they could to coverup this filth, intimidate citizens, and trumped up charges against the one man in your corrupt filthy community that tried to stand up against this and get these people their money returned.

Now, Fiona Wilson, the wife of the unethical, disgusting lawyer Frederick Wilson of Kincardine was involved with my wife Julia Ranney handling thousands upon thousands of dollars. An illegal wiretap was placed on my telephone keeping track of my movements (already admitted under oath in court). That dirty corrupt lawyer worked with your dirty corrupt police force to trump up false and twisted evidence to put me on trial. This is just one example of the small insidious dirty tactics.

Pictures were taken of the sign in front Julia�s Health and Beauty Spa, broken by vandals years before, and put in a file of evidence against me, and I was then accused of damaging property. A pry bar and screwdriver were placed at the bottom of the stairs at the back door of my matrimonial home. Police then took pictures of scratches on the inside of the door, and then with their twisted jargon made it appear like break and enter. The whole file consists of these �dirty tricks.� This was not a criminal investigation it was clearly a filthy attempt at taking anything innocent and innocuous and twisting it to make it appear criminal. Reminiscent of the burning of the Witches of Salem, or the modern �lynch mob.� Those bastards.

I did not threaten my wife, I did not take my clothes off in front of my wife as a dirty filthy assistant prosecuting attorney Martin told the Superior Court Judge while I was held in solitary confinement , my ribs broken. THERE WAS NO COURT ORDER as I was told when I was arrested, and is written in a police officer's note book. I did not threaten to rape my wife, as one of your dirty filthy police officers named Brad Smith stood on the witness stand perjuring himself before a Justice of the Peace stated. His own police reports he was in charge of, and admitted reading several times, clearly stated Mr. Alexander Nichols, a known liar and scammer, lied on February the 14th 2003,(lied is the word used in the officer�s report) when he stated first, I had threatened and assaulted him, and later went into the kitchen and threatened to �rape my woman and he should bugger off.� This is another piece of scum that fits in quite nicely with many of your corrupt vile citizens. Peyton place has nothing on the scum of your municipality. Including the schoolteacher who openly smokes dope and runs around naked with the full knowledge of your corrupt police who take no action.

A young single mother Sherry Price of Kincardine was defrauded of $3,500. My own sister from Kitchener, was defrauded of $7,500, then sworn to secrecy. This money went to Jan Johnstone, MPP candidate, to �go over the top� as it�s called when you make $40,000. Norm Smith real estate agent and his wife Joyce Smith friends of my estranged wife, testified in court as to their involvement in this pyramid. The corrupt Kincardine police knew about this pyramid fraud and suppressed the names of the people involved. Police intimidated people so they would keep their mouth shut. Sherry Price is in absolute terror, afraid to speak out about how she was �victimized� by the corruption in this municipality.

And now another pyramid fraud is operating in the area. Treasury Traders International. Their international headquarters in Mississauga Ontario. It is being promoted by a retired OPP Officer. His name is Chuck Doore (sic). He claims to also be an accountant. They claim to have a lawyer on the government committee that regulates the industry. They claim this is been checked over 100 times by police. They claim the Peterborough police checked them and it�s legal. They claim to have someone from CRA (Customs Revenue Agency) making money from this fraud. Perhaps you can find out if any of your corrupt politicians and police are involved in this pyramid fraud.

Check those web sites in the US and Uk listed on following pages you will find the truth that is suppressed in Canada. This illegal pyramid fraud Treasure Traders International has now opened an office in Owen Sound. Perhaps you could find out if you�re �Citizen of the year� Mhairi Walsh, whose husband works for a TV station, is handling thousands of dollars in this new fraud.

On the 19th of March when I was arrested. Police files show, my wife stated �there was no assaulted, no threat, no contact, no words exchanged... I am going to see my lawyer about my civil matters I just want this occurrence recorded. Then she went to you�re corrupt Women�s House Bruce, then talked to her filthy lawyer Ted Wilson. Then sat with members of your filthy corrupt police department. Then made a videotape, which I have seen, and changed her evidence to... he ripped his clothes off and screamed at me. My wife, told the straight forward honest truth. This is the woman I knew. It was your filthy corrupt police, and other scum in your community�s that coerced and intimidated her to lie.

Now, if there are any politicians or people of authority in that corrupt municipality who still do not know about this fraud and all the people that were involved in it, you should be pushing for an inquiry. If you as politicians have been coerced, and intimidated by your local police in this or other corruption in that town, including police brutality, police threats to keep your mouth shut about what you know about police brutality, these pyramid schemes, illegal drug dealing, the protection of people in Kincardine using, abusing and dealing in drugs you should have the intestinal fortitude as politicians to speak out, ask for an investigation, and give a news release to your two newspapers who also appear to lack the intestinal fortitude to tell the rest of your citizens in that community just what is going on.

At least the citizens of your community should be told of these web sites where they can obtain information so they can assess for themselves the extent of corruption, coercion, and intimidation.

Exiled Citizen of the Municipality of Kincardine..... David John Thornton. 519-632-1116.

Note: Today I must go to court and watch a 14-year-old child plead guilty to making death threats against the grandfather she has known and loved from birth. She always put her arms around me and said �Grandad I love you.� She never in her entire life, said one negative word against me. These kids asked me advice when they came face-to-face with a drug situation. Now, because of the filth of your Municipality, and now because of your Police Department spreading vicious lies, and those two filthy prosecutor from Walkerton, Brian Linley and Martin she believes I tried to kill her grandmother, and hired a pig farmer to murder her. Those filthy disgusting gossiping, lying corrupt degenerate family destroying bastards.
===========

Do you see and understand yet, "god BLESS god BLESS" and "VOICE OF TREASON", the horrors in the greed of pyramid schemes, that can take this many citizens in position and power and turn them into a modern "Lynch mob" to cover up the fraud you slick and slimy degenerate's can mask in your jargonistic claptrap perpetuated in a community. This is what you leave behind in a community in the wake of your corruption, not prosperity and happiness. How do you people sleep at night??!!!

the_truth (the_truth)
Junior Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 8:45 am:

To all,

As you may have already noticed, there will be a whole lot of irrelevant information you will need to read through before finding information even remotely pertaining to the TTI business. I highly recommend researching the actual TTI business as there will be a number of lies and deceptive arguments posted by those against this business. Many anti-TTI will often reference past illegal pyramids and Ponzi schemes to try to discredit TTI, but through in-depth research you will find that this business model clearly has specific differences. Distributors in this business receive commission based strictly on product sales and anyone that claims different is obviously lying. I will agree that it is very sad that many have been hurt by illegal pyramids, but don�t be fooled by how anti-TTI people try to make comparisons between TTI and these Ponzi schemes while withholding facts as to how they differ. If legality is your main concern, compare the business policy to actual laws and see if there are any violations.

Here is a perfect analogy of how many anti-TTI have attempted to deceive others into believing this business is illegal. Let�s assume that TTI is an apple, and an illegal pyramid like �women helping women� is an orange. Anti-TTI people will compare the apples to the oranges and provide you with only the similarities while holding back the obvious differences. They then provide you with research based only on oranges, pulling you away from the research you are trying to conduct on apples. Then when you try to gather specific information about apples from them, they will misrepresent any information about apples to help support their argument, and continue feeding you lies and deception, to make you think that apples and oranges are exactly the same. Ladies and gentlemen, please use logic and reasoning so you can fully understand the difference between apples and oranges.

To date, this business follows all government laws, thus it is perfectly ethical and legal!

Please take the time to learn that for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you.

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 10:06 am:

To all would be victims, and those attempting to rid our country of these scourges, the similarities to TTI and other pyramid schemes are far more substantial than the insignificant and irrelevant differences posed by the �VOICE OF TREASON�. In fact in this so-called �business model� the differences are only significant enough to qualify Treasure TRATORS International as a Ponzi scheme (Charles Ponzi Boston 1919) which are equally illegal

If this is sustainable with no losers, again, work this out mathematically. If you began this pyramid on the island of Newfoundland, and no one goes on or off the island how will the citizens keep benefiting by reinvesting in this scheme amongst only themselves. Like a poker game, when the house (TTI) keeps taking $2600 eventually you need more suckers. This is one of the simplest to figure out as long as you�re not brainwashed and your eyes glaze over by perpetual �Carnival Barking.�

Again I invite everyone to click on the link to Albania and study the Ponzi schemes, the one with product, stocks etc. it won�t take too long to understand Ponzi schemes and Treasure TRATORS International.

Something to always think about, ...... the big picture vs. individual greed.
Visit some of these sites....... email me at gatoraid@sympatico.ca
Pyramid, Albania 2000 dead http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2000/03/jarvis.htm
Pyramid, Death threats. Oakville woman http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com
find Pyramid Scheme page down [last story]
Pyramid, Death threats.14 year step-granddaughter http://www.canadacourtwatch.com [click] audio files.
Check this .... http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/DSABill/DSAbill.html
T-TRAITORS-International fraud www.treasuretradersinternational.com.
C.B.C. Ottawa http://www.ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ot_emeralds20040512
CFCN article: http://www.cfcn.ca/generic/generated/hubs/consumer/
A.G. State of Maine www.portlandphoenix.com/archive/features/01/03/16/feat_pyramid.html
www.gatoraid.ca
Writer�s web site detailing Pyramid Scamms and many injustices, police brutality, violence against men and women and senior citizens etc
htt is p://www.osc.gov.on.ca/Enforcement/Proceedings/2003/rea_20031219_kippaxallan.pdf
Ontario Securities Commission re: Alan Kippax
http://www.gemsociety.org/info/gems/emerald.htm
Information on the value and treatment of emeralds
Just FYI..... U.S. law on pyramid schemes http://www.mlmlegal.com/statutes.html

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 10:34 am:

To all,

As you can see, a perfect example of how anti-TTI references past illegal pyramids and Ponzi schemes to try to discredit TTI, but through in-depth research you will find that this business model clearly has specific differences.

Mathematically, you will find that this business works. There are a number of factors involved and each and every factor needs to be taken into account to determine an accurate answer to any mathematical equation. To help support their arguments, anti-TTI will provide you with some factual information while holding back key factors. Please take the time to investigate the key factors missing in their equations.

To date, this business follows all government laws, thus it is perfectly ethical and legal!

Please take the time to learn that for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you!

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 10:34 am:

This you will soon find is the real root of the problem.

The Rise and Fall of Albania's Pyramid Schemes

Christopher Jarvis

During 1996-97, Albania was convulsed by the dramatic rise and collapse of several huge financial pyramid schemes. This article discusses the crisis and the steps other countries can take to prevent similar disasters.

.............. excerpt from the report}}

Throughout the year, the government was a passive spectator to the unfolding crisis. Although the enormity of the problem became clear when the Bank of Albania discovered that VEFA's deposits in the banking system were equivalent to $120 million (5 percent of GDP), and despite repeated warnings from the IMF and the World Bank, the finance ministry did not warn the public about the schemes until October. Even then, however, it drew a false and misleading distinction between companies with real investments, which were believed to be solvent, and "pure pyramid schemes." When it was suggested that some companies might be surviving by laundering money, President Sali Berisha came to their defense. Press and public reaction was mostly negative: the IMF was accused of trying to close down Albania's most successful firms. In November, in response to outside pressure, the government set up a committee to investigate the schemes. The committee never met. On November 19, Sude defaulted on its payments, and the collapse began.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 54
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 10:47 am:

To all,

Yet another perfect example of how anti-TTI references past illegal pyramids and Ponzi schemes to try to discredit TTI, but through in-depth research you will find that this business model clearly has specific differences.

To date, this business follows all government laws, thus it is perfectly ethical and legal!

Please take the time to learn that for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you!

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 11:26 am:

By the way �VOICE OF TREASON� you have still not given me answers to my very simple individual Yes or No questions on the last �thread.�

This question I would particularly like to be cleared up in case I misheard, misinterpreted, or am I incorrect.

Is it true, when you get kicked off the board for not recruiting, or creating, as you choose to put it, two sales, if you do not choose to add $600 to your $1200 certificate will you receive only $1200 of appraised emeralds which your own stated wholesale value is 36% of the ($1200)}}}??

And secondly, (this is contained in the fine print so please confirm or deny)

These certificates have no cash value Yes or No??!!!!

Perhaps one of the suckers or suckeretts we are trying to protect could answer that simple very uncomplicated question!!! (and don�t be ashamed you got ripped off by well-educated, well oiled professional shysters)

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 71
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 12:05 pm:

By the way, the last reference to the Albania situation had really little to do with Treasure TRAITORS International, only peripherally. It had to do with the inaction of government that explains very coherently why your illegal Ponzi scheme has gone on this long. I noticed how you twisted your way around that observation with your �parroting� (dictionary: repeat mindlessly).

This is full answer to your repeated statements, and those in TTI that if it wasn�t legal the government would have closed us down by now.

The government always drags its derri�re on these schemes. (The reason why is another in-depth investigation of corruption). But, It�s like the lie. I think Ann Landers said...... ,�the lie is around the block before the truth has a chance to get its shoes on.�....... I like to think when the Shoes are on it will run a cleaner and faster race.

davidkeeling (davidkeeling)
New member
Username: davidkeeling

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 161.184.192.187

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 12:37 pm:

"And there lies the difference. Distributors in a network marketing
program that are merely buying product to buy into the deal as opposed
to an intention of really making a market for it, are really working a
pyramid scheme, not a legitimate direct selling business. Remember,
when you offer this opportunity to your next-door neighbor or your
best friend, it's your credibility that's going to be on the line for
years to come."

Thanks for that quote from Angel.

The call that I received, inquiring about emeralds, TTI, and The JooleryJudgeCA was from a person who was sceptical of my answers, as if I had some sort of agenda against TTI....as a jeweller, my profit margin was threatend by this upstanding, responsinble, transparent "business".

As I stated earlier, emeralds are not part of my inventory...I don't buy them, sell them, or use them in the items that I make. Furthermore, I won't set anyone else's, either. Why?

Because they are garbage, for the most part.
They are so fragile that they break during normal wear, are sometimes disasterous to set into jewellery because they are so brittle, and the most valued ones are so expensive that replacement is so near to impossible a cost to absorb that NO JEWELLER WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE COST TO REPLACE YOUR STONE IF IT BREAKS.
They are simply a liability waiting to bite you in the ass.

I asked this guy if he would have considered buying an emerald prior to the pitch from TTI, and he told me no.
Was it an emerald that he wanted, or the idea of "profits" generated by "sales" to others?
If he didn't want one, or a gempak, would his neighbor? His son in law?
Who wants an emerald, raise your clenched fist.

The truth?
Emeralds suck.

At least with Amway, the people who buy the products need to wash their hair and kitchen floors. They can spend $1200.00 on product, and if they don't sell it, they will eventually use it up.

Try telling a credible jeweller that you want your TTI emerald set and appraised, and that you wish him to accept the risk with your precious little "commodity". He'll tell you to take a long walk to his competitor. The competitor will do the same.

Magic beans, beanstalks, fabulous riches, nobody gets hurt, honest......nice, nice fairy tale.

Nobody "makes" money with TTI
They just redistribute it.
The bottom keeps boosting the upper layers, until a whole lot of people get crushed by the weight they are holding up.

If the emeralds are not being sold for jewellery to anyone, who is paying for them?
Investors?

Nobody wants an investment like emeralds.
The dummies that think these "gems?" are marketable at the suggested retail, wholesale, or even firesale prices are dreaming. Nobody wants them!!! They are crap, no matter which mine they come from, and what gun-toting exporter puts them on a plane. They are simply not in demand, and if TTI telss you any different, they are grossly misleading you.

Nope, this guy had no interest in the emeralds.
Do you?
He wanted the money.
Where does the money come from?
Other people who also want the money.

Where's all the money going to come from, to satisfy all who want the money?

Perhaps there will be an answer, but I doubt that there will be clarity.

It will require a lot of soap to scrub the dirt off the hands of the TTI people. Anybody got any Amway product in bulk?
These guys are going to need it.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 58
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 2:12 pm:

To all,

Yet another perfect example of how anti-TTI references past illegal pyramids and Ponzi schemes to try to discredit TTI, but through in-depth research you will find that this business model clearly has specific differences.

Also an example of how anti-TTI supporters will misrepresent information about the business to help support their argument, and continue feeding you lies and deceptive arguments.

"Nobody wants an investment like emeralds" is an opinion and not a fact. Although one jeweller may specifically state he doesn't support them, I am confident that through thorough research and investigation, you will find that a number of jewellers do carry emeralds and have been selling them for years. These stones do have value whether you want to believe it or not.

Speaking of "parroting", look at how some of these anti-TTI supporters have posted the exact same argument over and over. Truths to a number of these false claims have already been explained in thread one. I recommend going back and locating them if it still doesn't make sense.

To date, this business follows all government laws, thus it is perfectly ethical and legal!

Please take the time to learn that for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you!

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 2:16 pm:

�VOICE OF TREASON� �god BLESS god BLESS�

How soon will we get an answer to the above post?

..............

............

..........

.......

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 60
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 2:34 pm:

To all,

To date, this business follows all government laws, thus it is perfectly ethical and legal!

Please take the time to learn that for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you!

God bless.

(Message edited by the_truth on November 25, 2004)

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 2:55 pm:

..............

............

..........

.......

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 74
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.29.107

Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 3:04 pm:

To all you guys and girls of TTI.

I was handing out pamphlets to store owners yesterday. Some interesting developments. I went to five jewelry stores. Four had heard of you, all had the same impression. One I wouldn't repeat on this board what he said.

A woman store owner, in a kid shop, was extremely interested in the general story of Pyramids etc. and in particular students getting involved. Well into our conversation a heating repairman came to fix the heat.

Low and behold, he was a faithful treasure traitors wholesale distributor of emeralds. He "knew" it was all legal. Of course Parroting the company's propaganda

A woman off-duty security guard and former member of the school board joined the conversation. She saw through this nonsense in no time. Without my prompting, she came to the same conclusion.

They're gonna spread the word. I think through my legal pyramid I might have cost you some customers (suckers & suckeretts)!!

Why don't you guys sue me for libel & slander and loss of business and disrupting your legal meetings!! Then we will get a legal decision? And if I lose, I'll have to shut my mouth.

My name and telephone number are here. Let's go!!!

Then you will have all the yellow smiley faces and I'll have all the blue ones.

Being familiar with your gameboard, and your little trip to treasure Island, Jolly Roger and all, I'm thinking perhaps if I regress to your cartoon illustration level of comprehension maybe we'll get somewhere!!

�VOICE OFTREASON� �god BLESS god BLESS�

..............

............

..........

.......

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

(Message edited by gatordave on November 25, 2004)

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Junior Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.242.228.44

Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 9:25 am:

Bruce,
Good idea to start a new thread, but maybe we should give Thornton his own thread. He will fill up this one just as fast as the last one, if he continues to post the same irrelevent information over and over and over and over and over and over...................

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Junior Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.72.8

Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 12:58 pm:

Now let explain another thing to all you Anti TTI geniuses out there. You keep trying to say TTI is illegal, because when a distributor makes a sale, product does not change hands, just a receipt.
In order for me to be eligible for sales bonuses, I need to sell at least 2 gem packs. This would be $10,000 of appraised gemstones. It would be illegal under existing laws for TTI to make me carry $10,000 worth of inventory. The Multi Level Marketing portion of the Competition Act clearly states, �an MLM company cannot ask or allow people to buy unreasonable amounts of inventory�.

Due to the nature of the products TTI distributes, and to remain in compliance, the company issues Deposit Receipt Certificates when a payment is received by the distributor. These certificates are then are taken to the Company directly and exchanged for the gemstones. I will again repeat, it would unreasonable for a TTI distributor to carry the inventory required to satisfy his/her sales to consumers. The company carries the inventory. No the certificate has no cash value. Once the gemstones have been redeemed, if the consumer is in any way unhappy with the purchase, they can return the product to the distributor within 10 days for a refund, subject to any restocking/re-appraisal fees.

bvaledis (bvaledis)
New member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.141.153

Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 4:34 pm:

To: the_truth

I would like to suggest that we stop addressing you as �the_truth�; a more suitable name has been found.

Your new name is; "the_deception". It�s a name that I feel describes your character very accurately, as accurate as the "voice_of_treason�.

I have been following most of your manipulative posts, and I must admit you are persistently deceitful. Your posts continue to be nothing more than, carefully worded diversions from true business realities and deceptive tactics. You keep doing this, so that you and others can convince �more people to play your treasure game�, a game that promises to take unaware people to the island of �financial loss�.

You keep defending the same �legal today� stupid, idiotic, fake, lose-lose business concept. Is this the only thing you know how to do?

You are not convincing anyone here, you loose��

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.80.175

Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 8:52 pm:

There is a new crook listed on SuperHighway!!
http://superhighway.is/iis
Go to search for crooks, and type in wmmw.

You will then find your answer as to whether or not SuperHighway does all this wonderful investigation before posting a complaint. Like I have repeatedly told wmmw, the site has no credibility, and anybody who pays $10 US can make a complaint.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.71.223.140

Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 9:19 pm:

To all,

As you can see, yet another anti-TTI supporter has decided to enter another posting through which they have resorted to name-calling. Apparently, bvaledis claims to be some sort of educator, yet the example he sets in this forum is far from what we want students to be taught. He constantly accuses me of being deceitful and manipulative, meanwhile I am simply posting true and honest facts to correct what many anti-TTI supporters are attempting to mislead innocent business-seekers into believing. From day one in this forum, my simple goal is merely to prevent any misunderstanding of an innocent company such as TTI.

I feel that any business that is adhering to all government laws while helping others with their financial struggles, deserves a fair playing field as any other business. The truth is, a number of lies and misrepresentations have been posted in this forum about TTI, and those lies have been exposed to reveal the truth. We can all agree that TTI promotes researching this business before making any final decisions to take part in this business, so accusing us for targeting �unaware� people is not true. Even anti-TTI supporters have claimed that they have done their due diligence as suggested in the presentation, the only problem is, they have misinterpreted their findings, resulting in false accusations.

Not everyone may be interested in doing this type of business, and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with are statements made to discredit this company based on your misunderstanding of the business concept. If you understand the business and decide to walk away from it, then I thank you for taking the time to look into it and research it, and I apologize if you felt it was a waste of your time. If you went to a presentation and labeled it a pyramid scam even before the presentation was over, then I urge you do some more research because the conclusions you have drawn are incorrect.

With that said, I already know that I probably won�t be able to convince some of the anti-TTI people like bvaledis, stalker, wmmw, angel, etc�nor do I intend to. Their misinterpretation of the business will remain �the truth� to them. I would just like the readers to understand the real truth about this business and how it really operates. As for Bruce Audley, I must admit that I do respect him for how he presents himself. Although in the beginning, he may have contributed his share of misrepresentations of this business, he does attack the subject in a professional manner. Unlike some anti-TTI supporters, he appears to know when he has been corrected.

So again, I remind you, please take the time to learn the truth for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you!

God bless.

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 56
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.49.112

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:35 am:

There is a new Thread in Factnet under corporations. It is on a company called Imperial Automation Technologies Inc. Probably of particular interest to you bvaledis.

bruce_audley (bruce_audley)
New member
Username: bruce_audley

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.53.28.106

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 1:13 am:

the_truth - Thank-you for the compliment! All and all, they are in limited supply on this forum. I just know we will be on the same side one day before evolution (and gravity) take each of us to the next plateau in this life. Unlike some, I cannot see the connection between "Treasure Traders International" and other horrific business operations that have finally been shut down by either the law or government. It doesn't mean I accept this newest "get rich quick" scheme. It just means I do not see the over all relevance of attempting to link it to past "pyramid" disasters. The problem is, if you are attempting to link the current and highly refined marketing program that has evolved into the "Treasure Traders International" program that we witness today, with those of some of the past destructive and failed pyramid operations, you are going to find that they have far more differences then they do similarities.

So a note of humour if anyone will allow me. I have been somewhat outspoken in my belief that this a badly flawed business model for all BUT the top investors. I have never swayed from this thought so imagine the shock I had when a customer in Lethbridge called me yesterday while I was in Calgary, and asked me if I was so deeply involved with "T.T.I.", why hadn't I cut him in on the action? I thought he was pulling my leg but he said that he had heard second hand that I was on to something big and I was keeping it to myself. He only called to get the straight goods. So the moral of the story is all of the above posters that say they are agin, can be for - and vice versa! All right, not my funniest but it seemed better then some of the above HEAVY stuff! I've been away for a bit and my wife is waiting (she is NOT from Calgary) and I'll throw it back to you guys. Just don't put anyone's eye out with a stick!

Bruce

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 80
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.142.249

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 11:27 am:

Hi I�m back. Just got out of court after final arguments. Decision to be rendered December 15, 2004. Without publicity I think I�m going to have a problem since naming some politicians involved in these scams.

Anyway, I thought it may be time to share this with you since Treasure Traitors International is now under investigation. (you heard it here November 27 2004.)

So we will find out for certain weather it is legal or not. If it�s legal I�ll join. I fugure I could have already conservatively made $250.000 with my "misdirected drive" and mouth.

This is what happened July 13, 2004 in London Ontario when Oliver Koncz was placed under arrest.

Alert--------------------------Re: International Pyramid Scheme

TREASURE TRADERS INTERNATIONAL

Emerald Centre, 10 Kingsbridge Garden Circle Suite 704, Mississauga On, Canada, L5R 3K6, Tel-(905) 361-Earn Fax-(905) 502-3461

Olliver Koncz
Country Director
Work (905) 361-3276
E-mail oliver@treasuretradersinternational.com
ID #1134
Web site www.treasuretradersinternational

An excerpt from the sales presentation given by Oliver Koncz at the Ramada Inn Wellington Road and Exeter, London Ontario, Tuesday, July 13th 2004 at 7:30 p.m.

That�s why we have the best lawyer in this industry working on our team. He sits on the government committees that regulate the industry. They make the rules. And you can imagine he sees all the programs. He says this is the first time in his experience he has ever seen a network marketing company offer a real product at a real value. He says normally what network companies do is, the product that you see for $100 in a retail store.... They�ll change a bit; they sell to you as a wholesale distributor for $120 and ask you to sell to your friends and relatives at $150. We�re turning that on its ear... We�re revolutionizing the industry. The product that a third party-The Jewellery Judge appraises at $1000 you�ll find in a retail store for $1,500 and you as wholesale distributors purchased at 36%... $360....never happened in the history of the industry. So this is an amazing opportunity for everybody.

Note: excerpt from promotional material found on their web site.....

Our Appraiser:

The jewelry Judge (no affiliation) http://www.jewelryjudge.net/knight.htm

Since its inception in 1988 The jewelry Judge has developed a leading network of elite jewelry appraisal professionals throughout the United States and Canada. His integrity, keen focus and efficiency have made Steven A. Night well respected in the jewelry industry. He was the natural choice to be exclusively contracted to do all appraisals for Treasure Traders International Corporation.

Mr. Knight continues to be much sought-after, and numbers the C. C. R. A. and the R. C. M. P. among his many clients.

From David John Thornton The product promoted is emeralds from
Ayr Ontario Canada Columbia. Please question police, B.B.B.
(519) 632-1116 Chamber of Commerce, and your news media
Fax (519) 632-7177
E-mail gatoraid@sympatico.ca. note: C.C.R.A. now C.R.A.

TTI meeting Tues. July 13, 2004 Ramada Inn London Ontario.

Chuck�s quick, sharp, good looking very rich, very cool.

Chuck Doerr (sic?) Claims to be a retired OPP officer and an accountant. He was on stage in London promoting this pyramid fraud as legal and an extremely good investment. In the audience were seniors; men and women, many of them from area farms. Not only is this man using the �credibility� of the OPP to promote this organized crime, but the audience is also being told this scheme has been checked out by several police forces across the country. They claim to have a representative from the CCRA (Canadian Customs Revenue Agency) CRA in the audience. They promote Stephen Knight as an independent gemstone appraiser who appraises for the CCRA (CRA) and the RCMP. Question. Should decent, honest, law-abiding citizens be faulted or condemned for believing these people?

They claim to have the �best lawyer in this industry working on our team. He sits on the government committees that regulate the industry.�

What is this lawyer's name??

What are the names of the government committees upon which he sits???

(Message edited by gatordave on November 27, 2004)

(Message edited by gatordave on November 27, 2004)

bvaledis (bvaledis)
New member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.141.153

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 1:53 pm:

To: voice_of_treason
Re: Your post Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:35 am

Let me try and be more polite towards you, it seems that I have offended you with my harsh language and bold criticism. The truth is; you continually bend the truth to support your financial gain.

�The company you support/defend on this forum has come close to financially ruining a young college student�s future�. Yet, you tell us that it�s a legal business, it�s ethical, it�s a great opportunity to make extra money, and more lies.

How about some �educational background� for all our readers;

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ONCE UPON A TIME, there was a young, honest, energetic college bound student with lots of dreams. All alone, without parental support, he worked an entire summer, weekends and evenings to save for college. He had to borrow money to start school. The three year program he enrolled in demanded more money that what he had on hand. He arrived at school with nothing more than his dream and borrowed money to see him through the first year. The dream of college education, provided hope for a better life.

When he arrived at school, he faced the realities of day-to-day living, barely enough money to finish first year. The money was so tight, that he had to look for part time employment, in order to plug a projected shortfall of $1,000.

He started his academic year with much enthusiasm and hard work. He was excited about meeting new people and learning about business. He trusted everyone; he had no reason not to. About half way through first year, he heard of a cellular phone plan that someone would be presenting at school. Little he knew that the �cellular phone� representative was a con-artist. At the cellular phone plan presentation, he was approached and invited to attend a TTI presentation. Honest and unaware as he was, he believed the TTI opportunity will make him financially independent. Again, he had no reason to believe otherwise.

He signed up, parted with his $1,200 that was borrowed, and while someone in this scheme you support made money, he has never seen a penny of what he invested. Bottom line;

1) the young student, �borrowed� the money to attend school
2) the young student, was �conned into using borrowed $$�, for a treasure game
3) the young student, was �promised financial freedom�
4) the young student, �believed everything he heard� at your presentation
5) the young student, had no reason to believe that �you were lying to him�
6) the young student, �lost $1,200 dollars�
7) the young student, learnt a lesson �how not to trust other people�
8) the young student, got a �bad taste on his first business experience�
9) the young student, will �never forget Treasure Traders International�

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am certain that for every one you claim made money with TTI, there are 9 innocent people that lost theirs, like the young student I�m referring to in my story.

My language towards you maybe �decorative� and �bold�, but you deserve every one of the labels that I have used to describe you and the business you represent.

I will now let the readers decide, who is deceptive here.

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 58
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.73.239

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 6:39 pm:

Yes Mr. Ness,
I do know what Al Capone was convicted on. Al Capone wasn't thrown in jail for doing anything illegal? I thought tax evasion was illegal. TTI distributors must pay taxes on what hey earn. Just like any other MLM distributor in North America.

Bill,
First off, correcting lies and misrepresentations by some people in this forum is not "bending the truth to support my financial gain."
I have never benefited financially from this forum in any way, and I have no illusions that I ever could. My purpose is to let people have a different opinion to the negative ones presented in here. I correct lies with the truth. Because my opinions differ from yours does not make me a scum bag etc. It is a shame someone you know had a bad experience with TTI. I know of no one who has had a similar experience. Am I to blame because a student borrowed money to invest in a company he couldn't afford? I know that this individual would never have signed up in our team, because as I have continuously repeated, we do not allow people to get involved that can't afford to take the risk. Every new business venture is a risk. People know up front what the risks are, and what is needed to be done to make some money. They need to get sales. Perhaps the person who accepted the money from the student you are referring to is less ethical than me. Perhaps they are even a "scum bag". There are many people outside of TTI who fit this category. But again I say; don't classify us all the same. TTI is not the only business venture in the world where someone has lost money. People have to use their own judgment as to whether they get into a venture, and can afford it or not. The student may be the most honest, innocent, naive person at his college, but don't blame everybody at TTI because he lost some money. I do feel bad when I hear stories like this. I feel bad when people lose money in the stock market. I feel bad when I read tragic stories in the paper. All 40,000 people involved in TTI are not to blame if an individual made an investment mistake. TTI isn't illegal because some individuals can't qualify for the bonuses. The student can exchange his Deposit Order Receipt certificate for the emeralds, and at least attempt to get something back out of it. People always cry foul when someone loses money, and try to blame everybody but himself or herself.
Your opinion that TTI is a bad investment decision because of this sad situation is like saying All business ventures are bad. What is the success rate if small business owners in Canada? How hard do they have to work to make any money in the first 3 years? Nothing is easy, and there is no free money out there. It takes hard work and dedication.
Our education system, and these students� parents are as much to blame as anybody else for not preparing our youth to go out into the world understanding there are risks involved.

I have never been deceptive Mr. Valedis. I have been up front, honest, and factual. I say it like it is, so that others can at come to their own conclusions about Treasure Traders International.

And by the way, I still feel the same way about you too. I think you are unprofessional, immature, and egotistical. I would caution anybody against seeking your "professional" help, with the way I see you conducting yourself.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 83
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.142.249

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 9:23 pm:

VOICE OF TREASON wrote.......

�My purpose is to let people have a different opinion to the negative ones presented in here.

Well, it is very simple VOICE OF TREASON. Your positivemessage is this,.....that many people will obtain a great deal of money to buy cars, swimming pools, vacations, and pay for college etc. Many will go from rags to riches.

The negative fall out is that for every $7,000 one of those winners spends toward each and every possession they purchase eight predictable losers will pay the bill.

That�s the bottom line. Your vast pages of fact twisting rhetoric, �carnival parking�, �smoke & mirrors� magic show is simply the �brain baffling bull shit� corrupt lawyers are noted for.

Then VOICE OF TREASON wrote..................

Because my opinions differ from yours does not make me a scum bag etc.

And the answer to that....No!! What makes you a �scum bag� is your attempts to �brain wash� our youth to take action against their own fellow students in a scheme you are intelligent enough to know is based upon one winner and eight losers. It�s simply propaganda. Hitler used it to mobilize the youth blindly against their own families. And when the �big black boot fits� �VOICE OF TREASON� wear it. And the other parallel is that Hitler mobilized the police against the people and that is what the cops you have enlisted in this scheme are doing, promoting your propaganda to the youth and other unsuspecting less intellectual, and uneducated members of society. It is that, that makes you a �scum bag�.

(Message edited by gatordave on November 28, 2004)

wmmw (wmmw)
Member
Username: wmmw

Post Number: 92
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.157.144.63

Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 10:45 pm:

Welcome to The Liar and Voice of Deception on this new thread!!!

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.70.205.115

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 3:36 am:

Anyone who has been �burned� (mislead) can sue these shysters. The case against the wife of the Director of the Board Of Education London Ontario was won. It was appealed to a higher court, and the appeal was struck down, which reinforces and bolsters the earlier decision of the lower court.

With the information I have, aside from the pyramid aspect of the scheme, is the false and misleading propaganda from the July 13, 2004 inspirational and promotional presentation of Treasure Traitors International which is also illegal.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.99.246

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 4:24 am:

To all,

Please put your hands together to help me in welcoming one of our newest visitors to Thread 2...Crook...aka wmmw! (Clap!* * clap!* * clap!*)

"There is a new crook listed on SuperHighway!!
http://superhighway.is/iis
Go to search for crooks, and type in wmmw. "

Wmmw, I sure hope that name-calling is going good for you, because you're definitely not doing too good with the "fact"-providing and debate aspect of it all.

God bless.

(Message edited by the_truth on November 28, 2004)

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.99.246

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 4:38 am:

To gatordave,

You still appear to believe that TTI is illegal. I just wanted to clarify which law it violates. I've tried asking a few others in this forum, but I can't seem to get a valid answer. Hopefully you can provide us with a law that TTI violates which hasn't already been corrected. It would also be greatly appreciated by me and the rest of the audience, if you could provide us with the web site of where we can find this unknown law.

To date, this business follows all government laws, thus it is perfectly ethical and legal!

Please take the time to learn that for yourself before making any final decisions. This business does not prey on the unaware as many have falsely accused it to. You have every right to put together facts and become aware of what is involved, so I recommend doing so. If you have any questions or concerns pertaining directly to the business, please visit your nearest TTI to obtain accurate answers. Thank you!

God bless.

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 59
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.63.131

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 8:36 am:

wmmw,
You sound like a 4 year old who has been caught lying.....

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.138.144

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:16 am:

The laws violated are fraudulent
misrepresentation, if you can�t find the lawyer from TTI who sits on the commission that regulates the industry.

Also the very clear law that the majority of profit may not come from simply recruiting. In TTI�s case that�s self-evident.

There are others but those two are enough.

(Message edited by gatordave on November 28, 2004)

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 60
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.58.246

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:21 am:

Superdave,
Let me know when your next court date is, I would like to see you in action. I would like to see how your courtroom antics compare to this forum. If you are representing somebody who is unhappy with TTI, I suggest not comparing the judge to Hitler, when he doesn't agree with you. I know, he is of course corrupt and all, but try to keep the comparisons somewhat realistic.

Man, this anti TTI bunch can't come up with a valid argument against TTI, so this is what they resort to.
We have been compared to all past illegal pyramid schemes, the crusades, and corruption in Nigeria, Albania, and now Hitler!

This scum bag with his big black boots would still like to know how TTI is illegal. I already know your opinions, no need to repeat them. Please provide me with just the facts. And when you can't find any, I know you will resort back to the name-calling, misrepresentations, and lies you continue to post.

bvaledis (bvaledis)
New member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.142.133

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:27 am:

Need help with this one.

I came across the latest TTI news release dated November 19, 2004. I read it a couple of times so that I can better understand the relationship between Mr. Stephen A Knight and the �Jewelry Judge USA�. I noted that TTI�s �Compliance Officer� (link provided below), was the author of this news release. http://www.treasuretradersinternational.com/JJ_Nov_19_04.pdf

I carried on with my research so that I can verify Mr. Braidy Parker�s credentials as a compliance officer, and was shocked to find out that he is listed as a bodyguard at BulletCatchers.com and has his own personal CV, with what I think are impressive qualifications for a body guard. See for yourself; http://www.bulletcatchers.com/directory/resume/braidy_parker_canada.asp

I like to believe that TTI�s Mr. Braidy Parker and the BULLETCatcher�s Mr. Braidy Parker is not the same person. Why, because BULLETCatcher�s Mr. Braidy Parker has extensive specialized training in the areas of: Mind mapping, trauma treatment, intelligence gathering, etc. Very unique qualifications, that normal business do not require.

Please help me here. If anyone has more information on TTI�s compliance officer please share. I like to believe that the two individuals here are not connected at all. It�s just a coincidence that both live in the (905) area of Toronto.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.138.144

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:30 am:

Again, quit ducking the questions. �who is the TTI lawyer that sits on the government commission that regulates the industry?�

You�re the guys with your �Pants on Fire�

wmmw (wmmw)
Member
Username: wmmw

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.157.144.63

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 12:15 pm:

To The Liar

You won the prize! You're the first one to have posted a lie in this page as per your text:"Let's just wait and see who will be the first to post a lie in this thread."

wmmw (wmmw)
Member
Username: wmmw

Post Number: 94
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.157.144.63

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 1:09 pm:

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 90
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.138.144

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 1:33 pm:

I have begun sending e-mails to colleges and Universities. Argument without action is hollow!!

To all colleges and universities

Email : gatoraid@sympatico.ca

Warning : There is a serious scam travelling across Canada like wildfire. They are now targeting students. Scam is slick. It is a billion-dollar company with very high-priced lawyers. The mainline news media is only "nibbling" around the story. A small segment aired on CBC in Ottawa and Toronto. However, more and more students and others are being sucked in.

Started in Mississauga Ontario. Ontario authorities have done virtually nothing.

Two arrests have been made in Alberta. Please alert all students, all colleges, and universities. This is extremely serious. My efforts in trying to do something about this has resulted in intimidation and threats. A loaded gun pointed to my head.

Just check this US web site... www.factnet.org [click] discussion board [click] Corporations [click] Treasure Traders... find posting --gatordave-- and check other links supporting this story.

Check out the debate, the mathematics, the recriminations, logic, and ridiculous arguments. Judge for yourself and vote.

Please return e-mail with comment or request for more info

Something to always think about, ...... the big picture vs. individual greed.

Visit some of these sites....... email me at gatoraid@sympatico.ca
Pyramid, Albania 2000 dead http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2000/03/jarvis.htm
Pyramid, Death threats. Oakville woman http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com
find Pyramid Scheme page down [last story]
Pyramid, Death threats.14 year step-granddaughter http://www.canadacourtwatch.com [click] audio files.
Check this .... http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/DSABill/DSAbill.html
T-TRAITORS-International fraud www.treasuretradersinternational.com.
C.B.C. Ottawa http://www.ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ot_emeralds20040512
CFCN article: http://www.cfcn.ca/generic/generated/hubs/consumer/
A.G. State of Maine www.portlandphoenix.com/archive/features/01/03/16/feat_pyramid.html
www.gatoraid.ca
Writer�s web site detailing Pyramid Scamms and many injustices, police brutality, violence against men and women and senior citizens etc
htt is p://www.osc.gov.on.ca/Enforcement/Proceedings/2003/rea_20031219_kippaxallan.pdf
Ontario Securities Commission re: Alan Kippax
http://www.gemsociety.org/info/gems/emerald.htm
Information on the value and treatment of emeralds
Just FYI..... U.S. law on pyramid schemes http://www.mlmlegal.com/statutes.html

(Message edited by gatordave on November 28, 2004)

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 62
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.84.70

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 3:12 pm:

SuperDave,

I have no idea who the TTI lawyer that sits on the government commission that regulates the industry is. I never once said there was a lawyer representing TTI on any commissions. I know the name of the law firm that does the legal work for TTI is Stikeman, Graham, Keeley & Spiegal LLP, at 220 Bay St Toronto ON. Perhaps you should ask the individual who told you this, or better yet, go to TTI and ask them. Phone this law firm and ask if any of the partners sit on any commissions.

Wild Bill,

Perhaps you should call Paul Audette, the head of Security & Compliance at TTI and ask him why he would hire anybody for the Security & Compliance department that has a security background.
Maybe you should do some research on what Security and Compliance is all about. Then you may see why Mr. Parks� background could be useful. Here are a couple of websites you can use to help educate yourself on Security & Compliance issues:

http://www.security.kirion.net/securitypolicy/
http://www.rsasecurity.com/node.asp?id=2763
http://www.dyntek.com/technology_management/compliance_solutions.asp

Pretty much all corporations, small, medium, and large have a security and compliance need. Doesn't your company, Imperial Automation Technologies Inc. have a need for security and compliance? Perhaps you should contact a Security & Compliance specialist and find out if your company has a need. You already have the names of a couple of individuals you could contact....

bvaledis (bvaledis)
New member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.142.133

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 5:21 pm:

To: voice_of_treason

I have told you before, you are very "slippery", and that�s your only expertise.

Yes, Imperial Automation does have a policy for data security compliance you moron, but we don�t hire "Global Select Operatives" with "Extensive training in areas of: Mind mapping, trauma treatment, intelligence gathering, telecommunications security, team and individual protection services, weaponry, bomb searching" for our IT security needs, you slippery magician.

Let the readers decide if normal businesses hire IT professionals from this organization. Please allow the readers to see for themselves at; http://www.bulletcatchers.com/directory/resume/braidy_parker_canada.asp

Do you also have a PhD in �Mind Mapping� as well?

Your character is getting more interesting after each post. Why don�t you tell us who you really are???? Where you perform????

I would love to come and see you on stage. It would be rather entertaining to see you slip, slide and skate.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 91
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.31.162

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 7:35 pm:

TO: VOICE OF TREASON

TO: VOICE OF TREASON

I asked who the lawyer was that Koncz said was on the commission that regulates the industry at the motivation night July 13, 2004 in London Ontario. Again, another whining �strawman� complaint. I never said, you ever said, there was a lawyer on the commission that regulates the industry. So, now that you�ve bashed the crap out of your own strawman complaint again, we can get back to the truth hopefully without �god �BLESS� whining.

Thanks for the names and address of the lawyers and law firm. A Bay Street law firm eh!!!! I haven't yet picketed one of those, but I can tell you a senior law partner, a lawyer who illegally seized my business while I was in Hong Kong, was unceremoniously kicked out of the law firm after I picketed his office for a week.

His key wouldn�t fit in the door. When the Secretary arrived he was baffled. She informed him locks had been changed and all his records were down the hallway. �What goes around comes around.� That shyster had a private bailiff break into my business and seized my equipment and business records when I wasn�t there to defend myself and locked me out.

This is one man you don�t do that to. He was a City Councillor for 14 years. He lost the election, booted out of his law firm, and damn close to bankruptcy. Then his political cronies were going to appoint him a Judge (the Canadian way, without the public knowledge before hand).

Well, it was my lawyer who told me of his appointment and said, even though the rest of the lawyers here despise him there�s nothing you can do about it in this country. Don�t hand me that kind of a challenge. I went to Parliament Hill for week in 15 F below zero weather with a sign reading �This lawyer committed perjury in the Supreme Court of Ontario now they want to make him a judge!!!�

Imagine what. He didn�t get his judgeship. Most of the other lawyers hated his guts anyway and didn�t want him as a judge in his area. My lawyer said, he believed it was the first-time in Canadian history, a lawyer lost his Judge appointment. That�s who gave me the name �Gator Dave.� He said, once you get your teeth into someone�s ass you don�t let go. You betcha!!! The corrupt lawyer was Mervyn J. Villemaire of Kitchener Ontario if you want to search the newspapers and records.

Now, one of his partners, the police Commissioner was also a shyster. He scuttled an investigation into the wrongdoing of the police in his capacity as Chairman of the Police Commission. Conflict of interest notwithstanding.

He went bankrupt a few short months after my public attacks, especially the one at the OPC hearing in front of the CBC and died of heart attack shortly after. His name was Stephen S. Harper. He lied to the law Society of Upper Canada about a meeting with a government official named Mr. John R. Scott. Between them they conspired to destroy an earlier court case.

In a letter to the law Society Harper wrote �Fourthly, I don�t know John Scott, I never met John Scott, I don�t know any one by that name. This man�s allegations are scurrilous and preposterous. However, it must be remembered that Mr. Thornton is a sincere though misguided individual�.... I think that�s a lawyer's term for �delusional.�

But you know, my dear Mom bless her departed soul, oftentimes said, �a good liar must have a good memory.� That idiot forgot he wrote me a letter which said �Mr. Scott came to see me in my office yesterday, and I would like you to come in, in view of what he had to say.� An original letter Signed Stephen R. Harper.

The law Society of Upper Canada, wrote me a letter saying Mr. Harper denies meeting Mr. Scott our files are closed.... I presented the evidence. They simply reiterated "Our files are closed." It would have been better and cheaper had they simply disciplined him and he paid my damages of even the full million I was suing for... I would have been satisfied with even less. Instead, I legally ripped the whole law practice to pieces, and exposed their rotten corruption with the truth. �god BLESS.�

I didn�t have a beef with the other partner. He got an appointment as a judge. The word I got from lawyers in town, that wasn�t widely known, that he sold his law practice to a young lawyer just out of law school, claiming to have a large following. He was paid thousands for goodwill. There was no business. The young lawyer shot his brains out.

So, I went into the street with these letters and documents on a large orange board. I was arrested by the same cop who, with instructions from this dirty lawyer threatened two women looking after my business with theft my key if they didn�t turn over the key to my business. They refused but left under intimidation.

My business was broken into and all my chattels and records seized. About a year later I did catch the brother-in-law of, ironically, one of the disciplined cops Rick Hunt, with over $5,000 worth of my business chattels he bought �under the table� from the corrupt private bailiff Richard Hamm for $300.

Now �VOICE OF REASON� you want to watch me in court! When bullies intimidate my staff and break into my business, as Trudeau once said of terrorists. �Watch me� Well you should have been there that day. I asked the cop Peter Foy to describe what happened the day of my arrested. He said �seven or eight people were reading my sign� and it caused an impediment. I pointed out three weeks before that the �Pepsi challenge truck� had been in the same area with 3000 people standing around. Well he hadn�t seen that.

So, I said �that�s the impediment now describe the disturbance�. I couldn�t believe it could be that easy. Foy says �Actually there was no disturbance.�...... I picked up my summons and said to the judge, affectionately known in our area as �Hanging Howett� who really wanted my ass in his briefcase that morning..... �my summons says I caused a disturbance. This witness just said there was no disturbance. Will someone tell me what I�m doing in this court this morning�

Old Hanging Howett couldn�t put a judicial spin on that one. So, he let me go with a warning saying �you realize if the crowd had been bigger, and there had been some shouting, and pushing� you could have been brought here and properly convicted.�

At that point I figured the judge was about as daft as the witness. So I said to him, in a most facetious respectful manner, �Yes Your Honour, and I also understand, IF I go into a bank, and IF I have gun, and IF I say �stick them up� and IF I take all money I can be brought into court and convicted for bank robbery. But not if I�m standing outside bank minding my own business talking to six or eight people.�

He went ballistic telling me I was getting pretty close to contempt of court..... I told him, let�s cut to the bottom line �If I believe there are some corrupt cops, in this town, and a corrupt Justice of the Peace or two, and some corrupt prosecuting attorney�s, yes and even a judge or two, don�t I have the right to put that on my placard, and walk up and down from this building and shout that?

He said, �You�d be getting pretty close to line.� I said Fine because that�s where I will be tomorrow morning.� And I left. Should you want to hear the rest of the story its even more interesting. Ask me otherwise I won�t bother posting it. Sufficient I should let you know I don�t mince words with anyone, when anyone starts messing with the truth, bullying women, ripping people off or bullying me. However, times have changed and I haven�t. Cops have gotten a lot meaner, and so have judges. I have no allusions I could very well be severely beaten up or killed. I have already had the gun pointed to my head. Something that would never have been done back then in similar circumstances. Today�s cops will blow the head off of a protester without thinking twice. Read one Dead Indian.

Now having said that, I just wanted you to know I�m serious. I'm not just blowing hot air though a drain pipe.

So, since you gave me the address of these Bay Street Lawyers, if I can get someone to sponsor me, by buying my gas and expenses to Toronto, I�ll picket these guys, someone tell the press, and I'll show you what one determined individual can do. Or perhaps a group could throw in a few bucks for my parking and stuff and I�ll picket their office. It would be interesting!!!

Come on all you people ticked off with TTI and the rest of the scammers and telemarketers, crook's thet steal from seniors, and defraud them with "double talk" I�ll put the bell on the �Cat�s neck� you just have to pay a few bucks to get me there and sit back and watch the flak.

P.S. Do you have any idea how long it takes to individually e-mail over 50 colleges and universities across Canada? That�s why I was away from the message board for such a long while!!

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.61.107

Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 8:40 pm:

wow,
another story that has nothing to do with TTI, imagine that. Perhaps we should start a thread that Super Dave can ramble on and on and on and on and on in, rather than wasting our valuable time trying to sift through his drivel to find a point,in this tread.

What I did get out of it is that Super Dave is looking for people to give him money. How ironic.

And then he tries to group TTI with scammers, telemarketers, and crooks that steal from seniors etc.

I guess asking for money in here is much less "evil" than phoning them up and asking for it.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.71.223.140

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:07 am:

To Gatordave,

After you've successfully robbed your victims to finance your free gas, parking, and other expenses to Toronto...where can your victims go to recoup there money when you're finished your investigation regarding TTI and finally comfirm that it is a perfectly ethical and legal business? And are you legally authorized to collect such payments? Will you be claiming these payments when the taxman comes around? Let's suppose all of Newfoundland, with a population of approximately 512,000 and given all participated in your scam, mathematically, would all 512,000 benefit?...actually, there isn't too much math to it, is there...512,000 put money in, and get no money out...simple enough. I just thought I'd ask because I'm sure there are some unaware readers out there that may have overlooked some important questions regarding your little scam.

Here's a scam that sounds very similar to yours.
"Great West Entertainment. This was the largest telemarketing companies in Canada. They made millions telling people they were buying tickets to sponsor handicapped children that would be bussed to see variety shows. There were no shows for the handicapped children. There were no handicapped children. It was all a scamm. The shows that were put on were for the families who purchased tickets for themselves. The extra tickets they purchased for handicapped children were never printed. 40,000 tickets were �sold� to five shows that held 750 people. A total of 3500 seats. They did this repeatedly for several organizations. Millions went directly into the pockets of the corrupt telemarketers."

It's not so fun when you're going out of your way to help others, and someone falsely accuses you for being unethical and running an illegal business, is it? Don't bother answering the above questions because I already know your intentions are good, it is your perception that is a bit blurred.

God bless.

(Message edited by the_truth on November 29, 2004)

prhogan (prhogan)
New member
Username: prhogan

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.149.210.110

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:55 am:

To: bvaledis

In your recent post Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:27 am, about the young enthusiastic business student. "'About half way through first year, he heard of a cellular phone plan that someone would be presenting at school. Little he knew that the �cellular phone� representative was a con-artist.'", I was wondering... is this "Independent Representative" a business assosiate with Excel Telecommunications? Just Wondering as I have recently heard a downfall of this MLM Cell Phone/Electricity Bill provider.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.31.162

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 6:36 am:

TO: �THE TRUTH? god BLESS�

In reply to your last statement concerning me......... �I already know your intentions are good, it is your perception that is a bit blurred.�

Is that the same as the lawyer who said about me...... �His allegations are scurrilous and preposterous. However, it must be remembered that Mr. Thornton is a sincere though misguided individual?

And is my interpretation...... that this adds up to my being delusional in both these opinions what you intended to portray?

Now,............ TO: voice of �TREASON�

Your narrow minded bigoted reply was indeed predictable. The difference between me and the likes of Treasure TRAITORS Traders International is simply that anyone who helps me cover expenses for a demonstration knows they will recover nothing tangible in return for their monetary assistance. They can also check out independent records and if read in context, can judge my sincerity and honesty. The best they can hope for is that together we might do something to curb the graft and corruption in this country. They will receive nothing personal except the satisfaction they may have contributed to slowing the tide of corruption, and that depending on the success of a demonstration it may prevent a few young people and other citizens from being �scammed.�

I�m surprised you, god BLESS, and the rest of you �like minded parasites� wouldn�t be the first to �kick in� a paltry $25. For you it would be a �no-lose� situation. If I pocket the money and don�t show up as promised there goes my credibility. For only 25 bucks each I�m shown as a liar and scammer.
.
If I do show up, for your paltry $25 you may have the pleasure of a �sideshow� of cops beating yet another protester in this country, this time a 63-year-old man with no criminal record, (although I did receive a conditional discharge on a mischief complaint some 25 years ago). This time you may witness police actually push me right into traffic, rather than just toward the traffic as happened in Kitchener a few months ago. Or perhaps you can watch another citizen take out a role of bills and attempt to pay a teenager to beat me up like was done in the middle of Kitchener, and when that failed did it himself putting me in hospital by ambulance. Or perhaps and better yet, you can watch me beaten with batons, or the ultimate, shot. It is done by police in this country.

Consider, the OPP shot and killed Dudley George. All he was doing was protesting on a remote peace of land. He wasn�t trying to expose politicians and corruption within the police force, or shut down a illegal operation where police, their wives, politicians etc., perpetually benefit to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars while the Attorney General of this province sits on his �duff� and does nothing but watch this man harassed by police and anyone else who wants to take a shot at him!!!

The videotape I am �marketing� for $50 is sent to you by CTV�s �W5". It cost me over $1000 of my own money to investigate Great West Entertainment Company and the The United Way. I received nothing, and receiving nothing from CTV for �flogging� this video, and I quit a job that would have paid me $2000 a week in corrupt money, on the backs of handicapped children!!!.

Like I said before, it�s the immoral and the amoral who sincerely believe that morality is a curable mental illness. Or in their words...... �Your nuts!!! Why don�t you just take the money and keep shut your mouth???!!!�

So, I think my intentions of raising a few dollars to curb corruption is diametrically dissimilar from the greed of Treasure TRAITORSInternational. So, how about it. See if I�m bluffing. Send me a Go Train ticket to Toronto, a food voucher, a cheap hotel and sit back and watch the sparks fly on Bay Street. And if I survive all that and there�s money left, I�ll head-on over to Mississauga at the World Headquarters of Treasure Traitors International and �chain the driveway.� Think not?..... pay my expenses and find out. Is it passion, or simple insanity??? Let the world judge!!!

And to answer your question as to what 512,000 people who might be willing to part with only two dollars, might get for there money........... they would get a $1 million dollar passionate, active organization that would chased you crooks out of this country and around the world.

Anyone can now see, by your own admission, the amount of money people working part time at TTI can make. You know very well, by your own figures, how much money I could make working for Treasure TRAITORS International across this country on a full time basis without this aggravation.

So yet again, your own facts, admissions, and twisted malice come back to �bite you in the ass� and only bolster mine, and every other decent person�s facts and opinions on this thread.

And if you truly want to watch me in court, I have two more �Cause Disturbance Complaints� to deal with, as a result of trying to warn a group of students and other citizens of the graft and corruption in our society and where it�s going to lead this country in the future. I�ll confirm the court dates. One is set for January in Guelph. The other is in Walkerton. No date yet.

So, �Voice of TREASON�, �god BLESS� and the rest of you anonymous riffraff, the gauntlet�s down. You just have to put up the few bucks. I will put up my life because ......

I would rather die for something then live my life for nothing!!!

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice but there must never be a time when we fail to protest

Elie Weise ..........Nobel laureate

wmmw (wmmw)
Member
Username: wmmw

Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.157.144.63

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:12 am:

Gator Dave,

I'm ready to do my part.

Normally, a big lawyers office would charge you between $10000-$12000 to get a Foundation for your cause.

I will charge you NOTHING for my work.

I will just ask for my out of pocket expenses, a maximum of $300.

You'll get the Chart for your Foundation fast, believe me.

I need a minimum of 3 names of persons being 18 year old or more, with their physical address, and ready to be directors of the new Foundation. They can live anywhere in the world.

I would also need the MISSION of your Foundation in one paragraph.

You can contact me by e-mail, if interested.

I will be more than happy to contribute to help you getting rid of all those CROOKS.

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 206.172.191.107

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:56 am:

To: prhogan
Re: your post on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:55 am:

YES, I just received confirmation that the independant rep involved was from EXCEL, and I have also learned that some of these "Excel Telecommunications reps" have joined TTI.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.136.3

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:56 am:

Thanks so very much WMMW. I will do it as fast as I can!!!

fairplayer (fairplayer)
New member
Username: fairplayer

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 129.97.83.155

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 10:08 am:

Well well, this forum to no surprise has gone nowhere. Some of you people need to get a grip. GatorDave, as much as I wish TTI is illegal, you haven't been able to prove it. Sure you compare TTI to past pyramids, but that isn't proof. Each of your postings are long, boring and always fail to prove TTI is illegal. I do respect the fact you are going through a lot of trouble to stop TTI but stop posting the same thing over and over again. As for you going to schools, I hope you come to the University of Waterloo (where I attend). There are a few people I've heard talking about TTI.
Now, a question for Pro-TTI: Do you care if thousands of people will lose their money because of this business structure? I do realize millions of people lose their money in stocks, bonds and etc. but I believe this business is morally wrong and unethical, like taking a purse from a 100 year old women.
Hope all of you have a good day,
LT

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.242.228.75

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 11:31 am:

Fairplayer,
Good question. I will get back to basics for a moment.

People do not have to lose money. Say what you will about the business structure; perhaps everybody isn�t going to qualify for the bonuses if they can't make 2 direct sales, however, everybody who has made an initial purchase has either $1200 worth of appraised gemstones, or can upgrade to $5000 worth of gemstones, or take a credit card for go-trading.net to buy $5000 worth of other products or services. Again, if somebody is sitting on a Deposit certificate whining that they have lost their $1200, tell then to go to TTI and get their product! If they don't want the gemstones, they can trade them for whatever they want on go-trading. There are no losers here. Everybody will have a product. To make money in the bonus structure, you have to work at it, just like any other company where sales are involved in the world.
Is it morally and ethically wrong to sell product to people? If the people thought they could make 2 sales, and then couldn't and feel ripped off because of it, that is no ones fault but their own. THEY WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING FOR THIER PURCHASE, and maybe have learned a lesson that sales aren�t as easy as they think. People always want to blame someone else when they can't do something they thought they could.
If you would like to see the stealing of money from old ladies, go to the casino. Super Dave thinks casinos are okay, because he knows the odds! Does he know the house makes 86%? So if the entire population of Newfoundland went to the casino and spent $1200, 473,000 out of the 550,000 would walk away with nothing! If the entire population of Newfoundland walked into TTI headquarters and purchased $1200 worth of gemstones, they would all have $1200 worth of gemstones, or traded them for other products they may want. And many of them could have made some extra cash by selling 2 more! Even if I use Super Daves math that only 1 in eight get bonuses (which does not take into account all factors, so is inaccurate) 68,750 would have made an additional $7000 on top of their $1200 worth of products.

TTI is not illegal because some people may not qualify for the bonuses. TTI is not unethical, immoral, or amoral because some people some people may not qualify for the bonuses. TTI is legal because it adheres to the laws of the country. TTI is a good opportunity because there is money to be made. If people lose friends or alienate family members because they try to �scam� people into joining something that is not for them, again that is not TTI�s fault, or that of the other 40,000 distributors out there.

Again, we all know the opinions of these anti TTI people. I respect these opinions. Mine differ. When they misrepresent the truth, falsely accuse, lie, etc, I point out these and show why they are wrong using facts. Then, because I do this, I get accused of bending the truth, preying on people, using �strawman complaints�, and they have to resort to name calling and personal attacks to divert your attention from the fact that they can�t prove any of their lies and misrepresentations.

Like Wild Bill keeps saying, let the people decide! We do everyday Mr. Valedis, and everyday people decide to invest in this great opportunity.

fairplayer (fairplayer)
New member
Username: fairplayer

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.185.84.208

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 12:04 pm:

Thanks for your answer Voice. Much appreciated.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.139.11

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 1:36 pm:

Gambling casinos in the view of many are morally reprehensible. But, they are legal if they have required permits. If not they are illegal.

The structure of TTI is a gambling pyramid scheme that is recognized in the criminal code of Canada with the odds of 1 to 8. It is illegal in this country to run a gambling scheme without a license to gamble. TTI has no such license. It is illegal.

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 216.209.112.29

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:49 pm:

To: voice_of_treason
Re: �Like Wild Bill keeps saying, let the people decide! We do everyday Mr. Valedis, and everyday people decide to invest in this great opportunity.�
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you suggesting that there is a list of �required qualification minima� that a potential TTI distributor must satisfy, prior to joining the distribution team?

Saying that �We do everyday Mr. Valedis, and everyday people decide to invest in this great opportunity� can easily be misinterpreted by someone like me. I want to understand what �you meant�; because you have proven that you can easily slip through the cracks of reasoning, and re-appear later.

When you state that �people always decide� it could mean that there is a DISTRIBUTOR SELECTION PROCESS. But, it could also mean that people decide to join because they acted under the �INFLUENCE OF HYPERBOLIC EUPHORIA� at the end of a �MAKE-ME-FEEL-GOOD� MAGIC SHOW. Either way, you would agree, we end up hiring NEW DISTRIBUTORS.

So, if required qualification criteria does exist, would you be kind enough to share these with everyone here, so that we can ALL DECIDE if potential TTI distributors are selected based on qualifications OR based on HYPERBOLIC EUPHORIA at the end of the MAGIC SHOW?

The �criteria� for selection used, will provide ALL PEOPLE here, with a better understanding of what types of people your recruitment effort hopes to recruit.

JUST FOCUS ON THE QUESTION please��..no slipping or sliding allowed.

gatordave (gatordave)
Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.33.86

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:54 pm:

TO: FAIRPLAY

I have been at your University. I left several messages on answering in many departments They were given to security. I spoke with security They had been given the tapes. I went to W.L.U. to the student newspaper I talked to a few students I was thrown off the campus by a closed minded security guard. We had quite a discussion of. I thought this is a place for learning and exchanging views. I went out front of the University with 400 pamphlets at my own cost warning the students.

The problem of course is, these schemes are pervasive..... For example in London Fanshaw College, what happens when teacher�s and staff involve students. And when I�m thrown out by security guards, how do I know they�re not being paid from TTI through this recruitment scheme. Remember victims of fraud are generally ashamed, afraid and don�t speak out. It is perpetrators who do the threatening and physical violence.

I can be tough, and I can be persistent, and I would do well in this scheme. It�s just that I�ve chosen the other side, an advocate for the silent majority. But, if I can ever get them mobilized you will see who ultimately has the power.

There used to be a tough student newspaper at the University of Waterloo that exposed stuff like this, but even it has gone soft. The old student newspaper, ripped apart politicians and police and corruption in Kitchener-Waterloo when the entire media banded together to suppress the news from its citizens.

A professor at your University, a man I admire Jack Pasternak, pushed for a government grant to expose the corrupt clique that pervades the Kitchener Waterloo area. The clique that conspired to withhold the truth from the public. Both the printed press, CKCO TV, CHYM radio, all the news media and believe it or not, reporters sat on a story for almost a year. Do some research. Check the Globe and Mail that for two days in a row with full page articles and a third of the front page �hammered� the news media particularly the Kitchener Waterloo Record. Read the corruption of the editor C.B. Schmidt who published his own letters to sway public opinion. That�s corruption. His antics were used to teach at Conestoga College what journalism ought not to be.

Pasternak even exposed the involvement of the United Church Minister, outspoken Rev. Frank Morgan who for years has written an article in the Kitchener Waterloo record. Not only did this clique withhold information on the acquiring land and the tearing down of City Hall, the same system covered up for brutality within The Waterloo Regional Police Force until it could no longer be tolerated.

Go to the library as I did when a citizen told me about that book. Find the book written by Jack Pasternak entitled �The Market Fight.� Then check your archives for the Ontario Police Commission Report on brutality of the Waterloo Regional Police and their conclusions which were.......... �The Nazi like tactics of some members of the Waterloo regional police Force.�

Funny, I was criticized for standing at speakers corners with a poppy studded backward Swastika only a few months before yelling �Corrupt members of this police Force are no better than Nazis.�

The great Rev. Morgan Road in his loving Christian column in the K.W. Record wrote �May I be forgiven for wishing the police had not stoped the man who rushed the podium.� You see there were still good cops to protect freedom of speech, unlike last year, when the police refused to come, and I was beaten up and send to hospital in an ambulance. That is the future we perceived and were protesting against 35 year ago. We saw the future.

Now if you think this is all irrelevant dibble look around you, at the crime, brutality, and indifference, brainwashing, as more people are being led like sheep and no longer able to think for themselves. Citizens who watch their fellow citizens carted off to jail, without questioning why? Look at the tolerance of crime we have been brainwashed to accept. Even the reports of police involved with organized crime scarcely bothers the majority today.

In those days few people ran to the police every time someone spoke on the street. To day I�m not there five minutes until some �closed minded� �good� citizen who has no idea what I�m talking about calls police to �turn in his neighbour� and stifle freedom of speech. Check that behaviour out in your history books.

But there are still pockets, of intelligent right thinking people trying to educate youth. I find the average high school student far more open-minded then average University student of today.

You�ll will also find, if you keep digging, I was tracking down and attempting to expose fraud, corruption, brutality, intimidation of citizens and brutality in a senior�s home in that community until I was threatened and railroaded out of town. Learn something about your corrupt society. From the sound of it you have swallowed much of the propaganda and have been desensitized, which is exactly what myself and students at the old student newspaper predicted 35 years ago.

But you still seem open-minded, you just, in my opinion, don�t realize what has already happened to you.

We have myriad laws on fraud, deception, misleading advertising, �white-collar crime� etc. These are all hard written law enforceable by criminal prosecution. Perhaps you should read some of the judges decisions on fraud. It is basically any deceptive practice or words that cause persons to be relieved of valuables. Is not difficult to understand.

Now Fairplay you seem to think that this is a very immoral state of affairs affecting students. So shouldn�t they be given an equal chance to hear the other side of the story to compare with the slick brainwashing presentation from a retired OPP OFFICER who says he�s an accountant. And a lawyer TTI claims sits on the government commission that regulates this industry.

And then we examine your last comment and I�m wondering where your thinking is at. ............ you wrote .......�I believe this business is morally wrong and unethical, like taking a purse from a 100-year-old woman.�..... Can�t you see your own oblivious thinking and conclusions?

The last time I looked into my 2004 Criminal Code of Canada, taking a purse from a100-year-old woman was a serious criminal offensepunishable under criminal law. These crimes are not as you seem to have been �brainwashed� to believe, legal until it�s proven in court to be otherwise. If that were true, then we have a lawless society.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 76
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 4:10 pm:

To Mr. Thornton,

The point I was trying to make was not intended to portray you to be delusional. My last posting was simply to demonstrate how a perfectly legitimate and ethical business can be interpreted to be scam by false accusations and lies created by those against the business. For example, just as you have falsely accused TTI, we could throw out the same lies and deceitful arguments to make your little fundraiser look like a total scam. For example�

�As you can see, it looks like all these anti-TTI supporters are trying to cash in to support their false accusations and words of deception. They have yet to come up with any facts to prove TTI is illegal and already they are asking people for money to help support a case that they can�t back up. So to sum things up, we need to pay for Dave�s gas, parking, and other expenses to Toronto, and on top of that wmmw (who by the way is listed on Super Highway as a crook) wants a maximum of $300 to set up this foundation. So since, wmmw is listed as a crook on Super highway, I highly recommend that you, the audience, request an opinion letter from Federal authorities to ensure that your money is really going to a legal operation. You should not have to pay anything for this opinion letter as wmmw previously stated �
�He tries to convince you that you need to pay $1,000 to get the opinion letter from Federal authorities.
Believe me, you have to pay NOTHING.�
Ladies and gentlemen, I highly recommend researching this scam that Dave and wmmw are trying to set up before they run off with your cash. Don�t let them use their trickery to deceive you into paying for something and leaving you empty handed. If they claim they are a charity, make sure you get receipts that you can claim towards taxes. If they claim they are a service, make sure that you still get a receipt indicating you have made a payment for their service. Make sure you also get full detail as to what type of service they are providing and what type of refund policy they have. If anybody is unable to recoup get their refund if requested, let�s get the authorities involved to put an end to their scam.�

Does all this sound a little too familiar? You see, any business can be easily misrepresented the same way you have done with TTI. Through your fundraiser, you attempt to bring down a company which you falsely accuse of being illegal, however, you still haven�t provided any real facts to support your argument. Would it then be safe to assume that you are conducting an unethical fundraiser because you are filling people�s mind with false hope that you can actually win your case without any facts, when in reality your inability to provide those facts will ultimately result in failure when trying to prove your case? Your misinterpretation will not only result in the loss of your own money, but in the loss of those funding your misinterpretation of the business.

When I explained �I already know your intentions are good, it is your perception that is a bit blurred�, I meant just that. You appear to be a good-hearted citizen looking out for everybody, but you�ve come across a situation where you are acting solely on your own misinterpretation instead of the actual reality of the issue. Nobody is claiming that �morality is a curable mental illness� as you have suggested. Morality is not the issue that you are facing as your morals are much higher than most people I�ve met. It�s your ability to actually put things into perspective that appears to be the issue. Your belief that TTI is illegal appears to have become so strong that you seem to ignore any logical facts that proves otherwise. The only things you appear to comprehend is information that you can use to continue to misrepresent this business...and when you don't find anything to use against TTI, you fall back on referencing illegal pyramids. Would I classify that as being completely delusional? No, probably not. For the most part you appear to understand what is real. However, when it comes to the concept of TTI, I will have to say that your perception is skewed, there is no question about that. Your overwhelming knowledge of illegal pyramids appears to have led to the development of a character whose instinct is to compare various circumstances to illegal acts and you judge others based only on similarities instead of facts. Is it ethical to be judging others this way? No, definitely not. If you are going to make a negative comment about anybody, make that comment based on real facts, not just a generalization�and definitely not just on a generalization based on the similarities of their business and an illegal business.

Again, TTI is simply a company distributing gemstones as their main product. TTI also offers the opportunity to make some income if you wish to become a distributor. If you expect to make any income from this business, you are expected to create sales as all distributor profit is generated entirely by gemstones sales. It isn't too hard to understand the fundamentals of this business concept.

God bless.

wmmw (wmmw)
Member
Username: wmmw

Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.157.144.63

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 7:04 pm:

Gator Dave,

It has been $500, for an opinion letter, for many years, so you were right.

It is now $1000.

Normally, an opinion letter is asked by the corporation itself, to have all its papers revised, in order to make sure it complies with laws, BEFORE launching it to the general public.

We have here a very good example of a non responsible company towards its prospects by neglecting and/or omitting to get this opinion letter BEFORE starting its system.

I think we should make a fundraising between us to loan some money to TTI president, in order to make sure he can afford to get this opinion letter from Federal authorities.

LOL

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.48.119

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:40 pm:

Dear wmmw-the-crook,

(The crook can be viewed at: http://superhighway.is/IIS/ , just click on search for a crook, and type in wmmw.)

You have requested several times that we �show you a letter of opinion� from Industry Canada. Of course, a copy of any such letter would have to come from TTI directly, as we could not obtain it. However, TTI cannot get such a letter, because the Competition Bureau does not give opinion letters on this type of product.
�An opinion will not be given in these situations because of the difficulty of establishing the value of these products.�

You should just fly in from Halifax and drive Super Dave directly to his protest of TTI's lawyers, and confirm this with them. When you come to Ontario, bring Stalker with you. Maybe you guys can dress up in camouflage and they won't see you coming!

i_sleep_well (i_sleep_well)
New member
Username: i_sleep_well

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.26.156.53

Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 11:05 pm:

I went to a TTI meeting. If you could buy some gemstones at WHOLESALE, then sell them at RETAIL, then you could actually justify the purchase, however I am not aware of ONE person who has successefully sold any of there gemstones, or traded their GEMCASH . Could some people who have had some success at this please post to this board, showing all of us the real value of your $1800 investment? I was told that several people hoard their newly purchased gemstones at home, but I figure that they probably can't sell them. The focus is not on the value of the items you purchase, but rather on becoming captain and making money off the others you bring into the game.

Still waiting to be convinced, but I have lots of trouble with this one...

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 206.172.191.142

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 8:43 am:

To: i_sleep_well
Re: your post Monday, November 29, 2004 - 11:05 pm:
------------------------------------------------------------------

Your statement; �The focus is not on the value of the items you purchase, but rather on becoming captain and making money off the others you bring into the game.� is accurate, indeed.

Thank you for sharing your point of view with the rest of us.

I have asked the voice_of_treason to provide us with a list of �REQUIRED QUALIFICATION MINIMA� that a potential TTI distributor must satisfy, prior to joining the distribution team? Once the DISTRIBUTOR QUALIFICATION MINIMA is known, we can determine the TYPE OF PERSON, the SELECTION PROCESS targets for recruitment. NO QUALIFICATION MINIMA YET.

The voice_of_treason keeps blabbering BS statements like; �everyday people decide to invest in this GREAT opportunity�. I know of a few ailments that he is suffering from that limit his ethical ability to reason, but the description I read that suits him the most is; there seems to be a "BLACK HOLE BETWEEN HIS EARS" creating a wind-tunnel in his head. This condition greatly contributes to what is known as; THINKING_BIAS. Thinking_Bias could take one of two possible states. One is P+ and the other N-, depending on �WHO PUTS BREAD ON YOUR TABLE�. I think you know what I�m talking about.

As I said, SHOW ME THE CRITERIA USED to SELECT NEW DISTRIBUTORS? Because, the selection process used, determines if people decide to join because they were qualified, OR acted under the �INFLUENCE OF HYPERBOLIC EUPHORIA� at the end of a �MAKE-ME-FEEL-GOOD� MAGIC SHOW. You see, if there is NO CRITERIA whatsoever, they can hire anyone off the streets, colleges, universities, immigration offices, etc., anyone, as long as the individual is over 19 years of age, right?

I firmly believe that there is NO CRITERIA FOR HIRING NEW DISTRIBUTORS, because the focus is on �MAKING MONEY OFF THE OTHERS YOU BRING INTO THE GAME. This presents a huge untapped market, because UNAWARE individuals can be easily be LURED into this �SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE game.

Discount everything you read from the voice_of_treason because he TALKS THE TALK, BUT DOES NOT WALK THE WALK.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 80
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 8:48 am:

To i_sleep_well,

Distributors have been able to sell their gemstones for the suggested retail price. If you refer to some of the previous posts in thread one, you will some postings stating this. There have also been a number of people who have been able to trade these stones for goods and services on GOtrading to obtain these goods and services at a considerably lower cost compared to what they would normally find it for in your typical retail store. As mentioned previously, if you are looking for accurate information regarding TTI and want proof from people who have been successful selling and trading their gemstones, I would highly recommend going directly to TTI to gather your information. As you can see, there is a very limited number of TTI supporters on this site who are actually posting. We are mainly in here to correct the lies and deception posted by anti-TTI supporters, so this really isn't the place for the testimonials you are requesting.

God bless.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 81
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 9:18 am:

To all,

As you can see, bvaledis still continues to resort to name-calling possibly due to frustration from lack of ability to gather real facts. He accuses voice_of_reason of blabbering, meanwhile voice_of_reason is at least providing real factual information to help people understand the truth. If there is any pointless blabbering going on in this forum you, the audience, can clearly see that it is from the pointless name-calling and factless arguments by many of the anti-TTI supporters.

God bless.

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.242.228.39

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 9:44 am:

Wild BIll,

Anyone who is legal age of majority and would like some extra income, and who thinks they can make this wonderful opportunity work can become a distributor. Of course, they don't have to become distributors; they can just purchase these beautiful gemstones at retail cost.

Maybe you should go to TTI, and tell them that YOU are the most qualified to determine who should or shouldn't become a distributor. You are so arrogant and self righteous, that you don't think people can determine this for themselves. Everyone is so naive or so easily duped, that one TTI meeting will put people under the �INFLUENCE OF HYPERBOLIC EUPHORIA�, in your biased opinion. What a load of pathetic crap.

Get your head out of the sand, and go to a meeting yourself, before laying down judgment on what TTI is all about.

As you have repeatedly said, "let the people decide." Now you say, they are not capable of making that decision for themselves.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.139.122

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 10:22 am:

TO: �VOICE OF TREASON�

I made an error! A simple error! I addressed my truthful remarks to the wrong �shark.� It was in fact �The Truth??� that made these remarks.

What you have done once again accusing me of being a liar, this time for making an error is recognized in the Rules of Practice of the Law Society of Upper Canada. It is called �sharp practice�...... that is, to act upon a slip or error.�

You know very well I am not attempting to convince you Treasure Traitors International is an illegal pyramid scheme. You already know that and need not be convinced. My purpose is to have you again and again defend the indefensible so hopefully readers may see and understand how you twist, turn, and reveal the character you portray.

With your honed manipulative skills you could vilify �Mother Theresa.� You could accuse her of having scammed world vacations for herself by using the poor. You even created examples of how you can twist words to make any honest charitable effort look deceitful...... It is with these same skills you mask something evil and make it appear as a virtuousopportunity for any young student to pay for education, buy a new car etc., and should he or she fail, after filling their heads with these fabulous dreams, as you have already demonstrated, you then vilify even the young victim�s with another psychological �slap in the face� telling them, and many times, making them actually believe it is their fault for not working hard enough to find two more victim�s, recruits, or as you like to term them customers or buyers for this much �sought-after product�.

Again, I hope those coming to this site will not only see the truth, of what you are and what you represent but will take an active part in doing something to stop this insensitive �rape� of our country�s resources and our youth. All we require now to start an active organization is two volunteers and $300.

(Message edited by gatordave on November 30, 2004)

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 206.172.191.113

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 10:43 am:

To: slippery_voice_of_treason

You definitely need a new pair of skates. I asked a simple question; stop skating and ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I asked you, because you are the most �knowledgeable� pro-TTI person here; I felt that YOU MAYBE ABLE TO PROVIDE the answer to the question without your usual diversion tactics. I asked for facts, I guess you favor diversions.

Anyway, what�s wrong with a legitimate business question? Do you have CRITERIA FOR SELECTING DISTRIBUTORS or NOT? If yes, please share with everyone here. I never said that I�m an expert on the subject; you on the other hand appear to have EVERY RIGHT ANSWER to EVERY BUSINESS CHALLENGING QUESTION.

Don�t use the same method to divert attention from simple questions, as you did when you told us that �It is not unusual for businesses to hire IT COMPLIANCE OFFICERS from BULLETCATHERS.COM.� Now that�s a real crock, you do have imagination. Again, I will let our READERS DECIDE if TTI�s IT & Compliance Officer requires all the impressive IT credentials listed on his resume; http://www.bulletcatchers.com/directory/resume/braidy_parker_canada.asp

People demand facts Mr. voice_of_treason to make informed decisions, so give us some FACTS SO THAT WE CAN DECIDE. I never said that �people are not capable of making that decision for themselves�. That�s YOU SLIDING AGAIN.

Folks, do you see why I have previously referred to the voice_of_treason, as SLIPPERY.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 82
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 11:28 am:

To bvaledis,

If you weren�t paying attention, voice_of_reason did answer your question. Here's the "selection criteria" you must have overlooked:
"Anyone who is legal age of majority and would like some extra income, and who thinks they can make this wonderful opportunity work can become a distributor."
This is a business venture and the �selection criteria� is exactly the same for distributors as it is for anybody else looking to get into any business venture.

God bless.

(Message edited by the_truth on November 30, 2004)

bruce_audley (bruce_audley)
New member
Username: bruce_audley

Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.53.28.106

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:22 pm:

I am not sure how the issue became so focused on name calling and admittedly, the side against "Treasure Treaders International" as any kind of viable business opportunity, has beome bogged down in something that appears violently aggressive if not totally sophomoric. Am I wrong here?

I doubt we will see any change for a while and that is unfortunate for those people hoping to recieve a balanced forum regarding "T.T.I". How will anyone hear our position when it is buried so deeply in all the aggression? As this continues, the lines will just become more blurred and the thread will need to be renamed, WHO CAN SHOUT THE LOUDEST INSULTS! There are obviously mega-intelligent people on this forum. Any ideas out there?

Bruce

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:24 pm:

To Dave,

Just for the record, that remark regarding the opinion letter was originally made by wmmw, so I recommend talking to your buddy and tell him/her to stop posting lies.

As for your lie,
"You know very well I am not attempting to convince you Treasure Traitors International is an illegal pyramid scheme. You already know that and need not be convinced."
It has already been proven in this forum how it is perfectly legal. Try not to get too ahead of yourself by asking for cash before you provide these guys with some proven facts. We know you are very deceitful with your lies, so don't try sneaking the legality issue passed our audience. We all know you still have no real facts with regards to legality, and you expect them to donate to your lost cause.

God bless.

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 74
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.77.250

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:40 pm:

Bruce,
Whats TTI? You mean this forum is actually about something?

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 106
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.139.122

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 1:32 pm:

IT IS TIME TO REVIEW MATTERS OFF FACT.

AND PRESENT AN OPINION

FACTS:

1. Treasure Traders International is a company with headquarters in Mississauga Ontario. Offices have recently been opened in London England. Company�s noted intentions were to open offices in the US. To date, according to their company web site no offices have been opened in the U.S.

2. The founder Alan Kippax, was turned down by the Ontario Securities Commission after omitting his criminal record from a �Form 4". His record includes drugs, weapons, assault.

3. The company admits this is a pyramid. They claim it is a legal pyramid.

4. Pyramid Schemes are illegal in Canada.

5. The company and their �distributors� currently sell and distribute emeralds.

6. Appraised value of emeralds as with diamonds does not reflect either the true wholesale value nor the retail value. Appraisals are used for insurance and other purposes.

7. Motivational meetings are held, in hotels and motels and possibly other places.

8. A man claiming to be a retired Ontario Provincial Police Officer and an accountant Chuck Doore (sic?) is a distributor promoting this pyramid and attended as a motivational speaker in London Ontario July 13, 2004.

9. Representatives for the company claim TTI has been investigated and cleared by the police numerous times. The Peterborough police are mentioned as a police force that �cleared them�. The Peterborough police did in fact attend a meeting and seized, or were probably offered, emeralds which they had appraised. As claimed by TTI the emeralds were appraised at a value not below the appraised value claimed. However, the police did not offer an opinion as to the legality of the �pyramid business model.�

10. Oliver Koncz Country Director of TTI, July 13, 2004 claimed to have in the audience an individual from the C.R.A. (Customs and Revenue Agency) and further claimed the TTI has a lawyer who sits on the government commission that regulates the industry.

11. Metaphors are used to promote this pyramid. A ship named Destiny, Captains, Crew, Jolly Roger, Keys (new people brought in to the pyramid) Treasure Chest, Guards etc.

12. At these meetings persons with the title of �Captain� from the stage, articulate how they have accumulated, $7,000, $100,000, $150,000, and up, �working� this pyramid.

13. Among the general public, college students are encouraged and recruited into this pyramid. If participants are unsuccessful the company�s position is not that the pyramid system is flawed ...... but rather these individuals did not work hard enough.

14 On July 13, 2004 a citizen�s arrest was made at the Ramada Inn, London Ontario upon the person of Oliver Koncz Country Director of Treasure Traders International. 911 was called. London Police attended and made out report. London Free Press was there and spoke to all concerned. No confirmation police have done anything. London Free Press has refused to run a story, even to tell citizens that the event took place.

15. On or about July 15, 2004, a citizen�s arrest was made at the Best Western, Cambridge Ontario upon the person hosting the motivational meetings. 911 was called. All principles were interviewed. C.K.C.O. TV mobile news interviewed all principles. Waterloo Regional Police have publicly done nothing. C.K.C.O. refuses to release the story to the public.

16. Treasure Traders International have been under investigation by the RCMP in Alberta and are currently and formally under investigation by Industry Canada.

17. The FBI in the US has a file on Treasure Traders International. A file has also been opened by the Federal Trade Commission in the US.

OPINION

Based on Law and Fact. Treasure Traders International should, and very well, may be closed down.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 4:02 pm:

FACTS:

�1. Treasure Traders International is a company with headquarters in Mississauga Ontario. Offices have recently been opened in London England. Company�s noted intentions were to open offices in the US. To date, according to their company web site no offices have been opened in the U.S.�
And�? Business growth does take a bit of time. TTI just opened up in England. The fact that it has yet to open up in the United States does not support any arguments regarding legality.

�2. The founder Alan Kippax, was turned down by the Ontario Securities Commission after omitting his criminal record from a �Form 4". His record includes drugs, weapons, assault.�
The Ontario Securities Commission file for Kippax specifically states �a refusal of registration would not be shutting him out of an occupation in which he has expertise or which constitutes his livelihood�, thus this also has no relevance with regards to legality either.

�3. The company admits this is a pyramid. They claim it is a legal pyramid.�
Yes. That is correct. A perfectly legal pyramid!

�4. Pyramid Schemes are illegal in Canada.�
Not true! A pyramid is simply a structure and a number of businesses operate in a pyramid-like structure. Another MLM that uses this type of pyramid structure where a friend invites another friend are Amway and Quixtar, which have been operating legally in Canada for years now.

�5. The company and their �distributors� currently sell and distribute emeralds.�
And�? That is correct. TTI and its distributors sell emeralds. All commission made by distributors is based entirely on product sales. If anything, this fact supports that this business is legal. David, are you sure you know which side you are supporting here?

�6. Appraised value of emeralds as with diamonds does not reflect either the true wholesale value nor the retail value. Appraisals are used for insurance and other purposes.�
The true wholesale value and retail value is set by those selling them. There is definitely nothing illegal about setting the retail value equivalent to the value that insurance companies recognize.

�7. Motivational meetings are held, in hotels and motels and possibly other places.�
That�s correct! If not in a hotel or motel, then logically it would have to be �other places�, would it not? Excellent observation! Regardless, where the meetings are held have absolutely no relevance to legality.

�8. A man claiming to be a retired Ontario Provincial Police Officer and an accountant Chuck Doore (sic?) is a distributor promoting this pyramid and attended as a motivational speaker in London Ontario July 13, 2004.�
And�? Again, this has no relevance to legality.

�9. Representatives for the company claim TTI has been investigated and cleared by the police numerous times. The Peterborough police are mentioned as a police force that �cleared them�. The Peterborough police did in fact attend a meeting and seized, or were probably offered, emeralds which they had appraised. As claimed by TTI the emeralds were appraised at a value not below the appraised value claimed. However, the police did not offer an opinion as to the legality of the �pyramid business model.��
Not too familiar with this one, but if they did not offer an opinion with regards to legality, I�m sure they also did not offer an opinion with regards to �illegality� either.

�10. Oliver Koncz Country Director of TTI, July 13, 2004 claimed to have in the audience an individual from the C.R.A. (Customs and Revenue Agency) and further claimed the TTI has a lawyer who sits on the government commission that regulates the industry.�
I don�t know who Koncz may have been referring to but TTI �is engaged in a close working relationship with relevant government agencies and business associations, ensuring that as we grow, we not only sustain, but exceed government compliance requirements.� This a quote right from the TTI site so if you want more details on this, I recommend gathering it directly from TTI.

�11. Metaphors are used to promote this pyramid. A ship named Destiny, Captains, Crew, Jolly Roger, Keys (new people brought in to the pyramid) Treasure Chest, Guards etc.�
And�? I didn�t see where metaphors are now illegal.

�12. At these meetings persons with the title of �Captain� from the stage, articulate how they have accumulated, $7,000, $100,000, $150,000, and up, �working� this pyramid.�
And�? These testimonials are honest and there is no exaggeration with any of them. Not everyone is guaranteed the same success, but if you are willing to put in some hard work, you may receive the same results.

�13. Among the general public, college students are encouraged and recruited into this pyramid. If participants are unsuccessful the company�s position is not that the pyramid system is flawed ...... but rather these individuals did not work hard enough.�
And�? If somebody goes into a business venture and does not do the work to keep the business going, who is to blame? There is an opportunity to make some serious income through TTI but you should do some research to make sure you know what is involved before jumping into anything.

�14 On July 13, 2004 a citizen�s arrest was made at the Ramada Inn, London Ontario upon the person of Oliver Koncz Country Director of Treasure Traders International. 911 was called. London Police attended and made out report. London Free Press was there and spoke to all concerned. No confirmation police have done anything. London Free Press has refused to run a story, even to tell citizens that the event took place.�
And�? Maybe they all did their research too and weren�t able to find a law that TTI violates. They also noticed how many people were actually benefiting from this opportunity that they realized it was also ethically fine. So, instead of looking unintelligent by trying to expose something that is perfectly legal, they decided to save themselves the embarrassment.

�15. On or about July 15, 2004, a citizen�s arrest was made at the Best Western, Cambridge Ontario upon the person hosting the motivational meetings. 911 was called. All principles were interviewed. C.K.C.O. TV mobile news interviewed all principles. Waterloo Regional Police have publicly done nothing. C.K.C.O. refuses to release the story to the public.�
And�? Maybe they all did their research too and weren�t able to find a law that TTI violates. They also noticed how many people were actually benefiting from this opportunity that they realized it was also ethically fine. So, instead of looking unintelligent by trying to expose something that is perfectly legal, the decided to save themselves the embarrassment.

16. Treasure Traders International have been under investigation by the RCMP in Alberta and are currently and formally under investigation by Industry Canada.
And�? I�ve been investigating this business since I was first introduced to it, and to date, I have yet to find anything illegal or unethical about the true business structure. I have, however, come across a whole lot of misrepresentations of the business, but that�s a whole different story.

�17. The FBI in the US has a file on Treasure Traders International. A file has also been opened by the Federal Trade Commission in the US.�
And�? It looks like we may have another organization that will be able to back up the fact that it is a perfectly legal business.

Opinion
Based on law and fact, and throw in some real logic, TTI is still perfectly ethical and legal and should continue business so that others who feel they are able to benefit from the opportunity offered may do so...after they've done their due diligence.

God bless.

(Message edited by the_truth on December 01, 2004)

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 206.172.191.58

Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 7:45 pm:

Fact:
OTTAWA, November 23, 2004 - A Competition Bureau investigation into a Vancouver-based multi-level marketing firm has led to a $150,000 fine and guilty pleas on two counts under the DECEPTIVE MARKETING PROVISIONS of the Competition Act..

This case brings useful information to light, about the typical structure of Pyramid Selling schemes and the basis of conviction. If you are looking for factual information to help you make your decision, if you should join a similar MLM scheme or not, you will find this case very informative.
Full story; http://competition.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incb-bc.nsf/en/ct02997e.html

Opinion:
1) Although this case is not related or connected to TTI in any way, it certainly sounds very similar and makes me nervous about investing here.

2) I�m concerned about a business that is �borderline illegal�, especially when the CEO of the corporation has a criminal record. I feel my selling efforts as a distributor, could go down the drain rather quickly.

3) I like doing business in compliance to the law. The TTI model is close to breaking the law, although today, perfectly legal. That scares me a bit.

4) I believe that when �participants are compensated for the recruitment of new participants� the main focus is not selling products or services. Compensating people for recruiting others into a game only helps to create a feeding frenzy. If the product has no direct value to me, and there is no valuable service attached, them I�m just a recruiter on commission, so that others make more money.

5) If I want to make a genuine Emerald ring for my wife, I will go to our reputable local Jeweler in town, and have one custom made the way I like it.

6) If I did not care about the value of the Emerald that much, and just wanted to have one because I like it� Green color, I can buy one from eBay for about $25.00.

hockeygal (hockeygal)
New member
Username: hockeygal

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 142.179.129.81

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 5:15 am:

I think this whole TTI is shameful and a horrible scam. I've been approached by numerous friends excitedly telling me how they plan to make their 7000 bucks by simple "playing this board game thingy" and bringing in 2 people to "play". the whole thing was quite pathetic really...words such as "Captains" and "crew" and "voyageur"... and the talk of gemstones?? hahaha oh my god. The sad thing was these ppl who tried to convince me to cough up 1800 bucks honestly believed TTI was the best thing since sliced bread. It's mind boggling. }

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 32
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 206.172.191.118

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 6:47 am:

Fact:
We have enough problems in our world today, WAKE UP people and get involved in doing something good for humanity, when you get involved in any business that it�s �participants are compensated for the recruitment of new participants� and the main focus is not selling useful products or services, you are helping to create an �artificial market� that targets YOURSELF, THE PEOPLE and the only one that wins here is the �Human Engineer� that has masterminded the scam.

Opinion
It makes me sick to my stomach, when �some people� believe that by devising some crooked scam, money can be carefully extracted from other people. PEOPLE ARE NOT A COMODITY TO BE TRADED FOR CASH.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 110
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.30.124

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 9:48 am:

To: �THE TRUTH??� �VOICE OF TREASON�..... others

What I set out in my last post, which �THE TRUTH� ripped apart like a shark at a feeding frenzy, and forget to sanctify with his customary �God bless� was simply a series of facts. Very few of these facts prove TTI is illegal. The fact the founder hid his criminal record in no way proves the company he is running is illegal. These are simply facts I have gathered or have been pointed out to me by others. Furthermore, the company need only violate one provision of law with respect to their selling practices to be declared illegal. This one, or this one, or this one etc.. Not this one and this one and this one etc.

I just think that people doing business with Kippax are entitled to know matters of public record. After all after if your investing in a company I�m sure you would like to know if one of the Board of Directors has a similar history.

Now I said pyramid schemes are illegal in Canada. Not as you �spin� by writing ,�pyramid like structure.�

Furthermore, I did not come on this �discussion board� to argue what is legal and illegal. The objective was to reveal the horrendous harm to individuals and the damage to communities pyramid involvement can cause and the factual stories supporting that observation and my opposition to these schemes and the Government, and media�s reluctance to do much about it.

That is what, I believed this site was all about. Having said that, certain facts touching on legality are inevitable and unavoidable.

I explained the pyramid structure of the fraud �women helping Women.� In fact it was recognized to be illegal. Women were charged and convicted. And I believe that no one including anyone from TTI disagreed that this was an illegal pyramid scheme.

Now, Treasure Traders International uses exactly and precisely the same �board� method of keeping track and labelling the participants. In fact many people in TTI were in the pyramid fraud �Women Helping Women.� There is no point spending hours, and hours, debating for example that �Women Helping Women� only allowed women and not men to participate. That is absolutely irrelevant to the pyramid structure.

Treasure Traders International uses exactly and precisely the same method of recruitment. The fact that �WHW� pyramid was also referred to as �The Gifting Club�, �The Dinner Club� and several others and their monetary payout, was referred to as �muffins� in some cases, �desserts� and in other cases �gifts�, and TTI payout is in �treasure� from the �treasure chest� requiring metaphorically two keys (recruits) to open the �treasure chest� is of absolutely no relevance or consequence to the structure of the pyramid

In all cases, eight recruits gave $5,000 each to the person whose name was at the top of the board. That person walked away with $40,000. Simple arithmetic.

Again, Treasure Traders International is exactly the same. Eight recrutes give an amount of money to one person. The fact that the amount of money is $1200 vis-a-vis $5,000 is totally irrelevant to the structure.

The fact that the $9,600 received by the �Captain� or anyone else is then split with the company or anyone else is also totally irrelevant to the structure of the scheme and methods of collecting that money.

The pyramid structure is identical and if allowed to continue will mathematically collapse the same way as �WHW�and that has been determined in law to be illegal and enforced by the courts with conviction and penalties resulting. And that is exactly the same pyramid structure used by Treasure Traders International and I believe not disputed by anyone..

Now, the only difference is, that instead of the eight losers receiving absolutely nothing, the unsuccessful so-called �distributors� get some green emeralds. You can argue the value of emeralds, the colour of the emeralds, the desirability of the emeralds, the possibility of trade with the emeralds, and the option to buy more emeralds, and write pages and pages, and go over it, and over it, and over it, but, in the final analysis of facts, the unsuccessful receive �green emeralds� and that is the only difference. You can throw in all the �spin doctoring� you want about purchase �order certificates� and all the other legal jargonistic claptrap. The pyramid structure is exactly the same. The unsuccessful have emeralds instead of nothing. Period!!!

Now, the only argument any of you pro TTI have is that by introducing this product to the exact same pyramid structure makes that structure and your whole �neo business plan� for the next millennium perfectly legal. This is the only argument.

My opinion, shared by others is, the introduction of the product does not make this pyramid method of recruitment legal. Period!!!

Your opinion, shared by others is, the introduction of the product makes this pyramid method of recruitment absolutely, positively, 100%, perfectly legal!!

That is the only argument!!!

This is so elementary, I feel like a Kindergarten Teacher trying to talk commonsense to precocious child with his fingers in his ears, his tongue out insisting ya, ya. ya, ya, ya !! I didn�t hit him as you, and everybody else keep falsely accusing me of doing teacher, if you want to know the truth I kicked him!!

So, it will be up the �principal� to decide if first, kicking is as bad or worse than hitting, and secondly if that is a violation of the rules.

So the legal question is simply...... is the introduction of product into an otherwise recognized illegal pyramid fraud make the structure of that fraud legal?? It�s as simple as that!!!!.

Now, I�m done arguing. Let the investigators and courts decide legalities.

However, because I strongly believe this is illegal and harming our country I will continue to oppose it in ways I believe are my civil rights in this country so to do. And that I must do at my own peril. And whether what I do is considered to be legal or illegal will also have to be decided by someone else irrespective of my opinion or yours. And the legality of how I ask for support to fund my opposition to these pyramid�s which in my opinion, are �raping my fellow citizens� of their assets in some cases borrowed money will also be decided by someone else.

Personally, I want you and organizations like you out of my country, because my personal opinion which I hope will be upheld in a court of law, is that you are illegal parasites feeding off the greed of some and the desperation of many of my fellow citizens. In my opinion, we have enough legal ones doing the same.

Now, I thought the primary thrust, of this web site was for people to tell their experiences and personal tragedies as a result of dealings with organizations, cults and the like, not to have unsophisticated victims and other concerned citizens argue the law with obviously trained professionals, possibly lawyers and certainly �spin doctors.�

That in future is what my contributions to this site will centre around.

(Message edited by gatordave on December 01, 2004)

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 87
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:43 pm:

To Dave,

When you list a number of facts and conclude with the statement,� �Based on Law and Fact. Treasure Traders International should, and very well, may be closed down.��it leads the reader to believe that the facts listed actually relate to your conclusion (at least that�s how most people try to prove a point�they give facts, then they provide a conclusion based on those facts). Of course, we should have figured that your method is completely different, as you just put information on the table and make conclusions nowhere related to the information you present.

I also agree with your comment, �the company need only violate one provision of law with respect to their selling practices to be declared illegal�. This is very true, and it is also true that there is still no law to be found that TTI violates, therefore it is perfectly legal. Any the laws you have listed that you believe TTI may be violating is actually your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of the company, thus creating false accusations.

The main argument is not necessarily whether the introduction of the product makes this pyramid method of recruitment legal, as you have suggested. I believe that the main argument is more in reference to how the money is being generated and how it is being distributed.

First off, any commission received is generated through the sale of gemstones. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.

The misconception that most people have is that money is generated through recruitment, but this is not true. Here is the factual recruitment process:
1) Distributor invites Buddy to meeting. � No distributor commission made.
2) Buddy purchases distributor kit. � No distributor commission made.
3) Buddy completes registration form to be submitted to head office. � No distributor commission made.
4) Buddy has now been recruited as a distributor. � No commission is made.

If anyone cannot understand this recruitment process, I recommend studying it, researching it, learning it. It can�t be that hard to understand, unless you make excuses not to understand it.

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 111
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.71.30.124

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:54 pm:

TO: HOCKEYGAL�

Thank you Hockygal for a breath of fresh air and a simple common sense conclusion to an equally simple story. The complicated individual stories come from the effects of what you have observed. But in order for your voice be heard and make a difference I urge you to send that email to your MP, MPP, Mayor, Industry Canada and the news media. This forum constitutes an excellent catalyst, but we must use this as fuel to make effective change.

I am dealing with these people constantly. They know what�s going on but continually give me the same frustrating answer, ....�You seem to be the only one complaining.� Yesterday I received a call from Global News. Apparently one other person called them to complain about TTI. Imagine if only 50 called.

Brent Hanson CKCO TV Kitchener has warned me he will call police if I call again. Now apparently one other person has called there. What is this county coming to when the news media run to the �thought police�to voluntarily reveal the source of a story about corruption. Read Orwell 1884. But, it is amazing how they react when a few more like minded citizens with the same truth tell their similar or same simple stories.

This is something for the public to think about. When I was protesting in Ottawa many years ago, I was approach by numerous civil servants with advice and inside knowledge. Several civil servants explained the complaint polls this way. Every time they receive one telephone complaint it is treated as 100, because they realize not everyone outraged complains. Their polls indicate that only 1 in 100 outraged citizens takes the trouble to make a phone call However, I was told, that when they receive one letter, they treat it as 1000 complaintsif it is shown the material is credible and not just an isolated crank letter. And that, because their surveys have shown that only one in 1000 disgruntled even enraged citizens will bother to write a letter. So as they said, your letters are that important.

What I cannot understand, and can some woman out there please explained this to me. Of all the thousands upon thousands of women who were taken for the extraordinary large sum of $5,000, some young women who even went bankrupt, only a handful complained, and only one in the province of Ontario that I�m aware of sued in Small Claims Court. (And she won... Jan Fulkerson of London). She hoped this might make a difference.

In my small-town of Kincardine, 6000 population, we had one of the largest businesses in town. Not one woman, who was cheated of $5,000 nor one citizen male or female came to me and said �Dave, your wife and her friend Fiona Wilson, the wife of lawyer Ted Wilson took me for $5000 in a scheme they claimed lawyers and police said was legal, and was supposed to help women in abusive situations. Not one!!! Not even one man who knew his wife was cheated or someone else�s wife who was cheated. Will somebody please tell me why. This for the life of me I can not fathom.

Now, Some years ago, I brought with me a delegation of only 10 concern businesspeople to a hearing of the police commission in Kitchener because of several injustices they refused to deal with. These people threatened to bring a busload of credible business owners from 100 mi. away to picket, if the matter was not resolved. The publicity of credible business people, picketing this would have generated was left unmentioned. That was self-evident. After seven years of beating my head against the system the matter was resolved. The power is still with the people, please don�t ever forget that.

If you wish to do something about the big picture, pyramid fraud and other �white collar crime� please let your voice be heard by government, police, and media. We have to start somewhere and Treasure Trader�s International looks like a good classic �springboard.�

Please get involved if even in the smallest way, and spread the word there are people who are willing to do the hard and dirty stuff. We just need support.

gatordave

P.S. I have already received some help. People receiving my pamphlets on the street contributed to one third of the price of a $1,800, 16 ft. trailer. But that took three weeks. I paid the rest. I am almost bankrupt these � pyramid situations� and their fall out having cost me an unanticipated $100,000 last year. I need a sign company or donations so I can get the $60 light package and place a 8FT X 16 ft. sign denouncing Treasure Trader�s International. And when we�re done with them, we will have the equipment, and with a simple change of name we can take on the next challenge. And those of you who helped, can actively participate or sit back and watch the effects your collective small contribution had on these crooks.

Since first hearing of Treasure Trader�s International in April 2004, I could have, working full-time night and day, have �earned�, by �ripping off� my fellow citizens, over $200,000 by TTI own estimate without any aggravation. Except from my conscience.That is the credibility I put before you.

hockeygal (hockeygal)
New member
Username: hockeygal

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 142.179.129.81

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 1:10 pm:

Gatordave: reading the 2 threads on TTI frustrates me b/c ppl are so ignorant. When I first heard of this so called money making "opportunity" from my friends, I was confused b/c they made no sense...and gave vauge answers to my questions...everyone seems caught up on this whole notion of making your 7000 bucks ..."oh, its so easy, we already have 2 ppl who wanna join"....well why the heck are they hard selling me this if they already have 2 ppl?! It sounded too good to be true, and as soon as I heard the word PYRAMID...it all made sense...too bad my friends didn't tell me that from the get-go, that stupid TTI meeting was 2 hours of my life I'll never get back.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 91
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 4:37 pm:

To hockeygal,

I'm going to have to agree that "reading the 2 threads on TTI frustrates me b/c ppl are so ignorant". Facts have been provided time and time again, and still people can�t seem to comprehend the concept. People continue to put down a legitimate business that is just trying to distribute gemstones. What a shame this world has come to when people constantly make judgments based on somebody�s occupation. If people make a living distributing gemstones is there anything wrong with that? I personally don�t think so! But I guess that�s just my opinion. I guess I must have been brought up differently because I seem to feel it is unethical to put others down based on where they work. Maybe if TTI were doing something illegal or unethical, then I can see why people would be upset, but when TTI follows all laws and help people financially, they have every right to continue business. TTI gives everybody the opportunity to do their research before signing up and they don�t provide unrealistic benefits�so it isn�t even a question about lying or stealing which are false accusations that have come up numerous times in this forum. I apologize you felt the meeting was a complete waste of your time, and I guess it was wrong for your friends to try to help improve your financial situation when you obviously don�t need it. I guess next time, they should think twice before holding the door for someone else.

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 115
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.70.207.54

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 4:41 pm:

TO: "VOICE OF TREASON" "THE_TRUTH???" and the rest of you JUVENILES

As I have already indicated I no longer wish to debate whether this kindergarten �fairy tale� voyage on the �good� ship Destiny to the treasure chest requiring two keys to unlock, is legal or not. What I would challenge you to do is take $1000 from your millions and ask for an opinion letter. It would save us all a lot of grief. Had I known all this last year I would have gladly donated $1000 for you to get that opinion. If it was favourable I would have made a fortune and and you as a legitimate company would have made a great deal on my hard work, far more than a lousy 1000 bucks.

I was going to do a �whip �round� of interested people and ask for the letter myself. However, industry Canada has stated it, will not provide a letter of opinion based on the material given to me by Treasure Trader�s International in the startup kit even though I debated with them, that if this material revealed even one violation it would be sufficient to declare illegitimacy. I informed them I was also willing to pay $1000 if they would tell me based on just the starter material if they found any flaws. They will not even give an opinion on that.

So, �the ball�s in your court� why don�t you just �belt up� and get your hundred thousand dollar distributors to each pony up about 25 cents each and get the opinion letter. it only takes 2 to 4 weeks.

Then your in the clear, we "shut up" and you return to making millions faster. Imagine if you posted an enlarged copy of that favourable letter at your motivational meetings.

Better still, give a copy to every recruiter. If I had such a letter I could fill your meeting hall single handedly. Your wasting a tremendous potential here for the sake of a measly 1000 bucks. I'm sick of hearing the fairy tale, over, and over, and over, and over again. get the letter.

JUST DO IT!!!

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.242.228.39

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 4:59 pm:

Dear Super Dave,

As previously stated, we cannot get this letter of opinion you keep requesting. We would get the same answer you received from Industry Canada if we called. If TTI requested a letter from Industry Canada, they would get the same answer, because if you EVER bothered to read the previous posts, you would see that they do not provide opinion letters on this type of product.
There exact response is:

�An opinion will not be given in these situations because of the difficulty of establishing the value of these products.�

Again, Industry Canada states that this letter of opinion is just that, an opinion. These letters in know way confirm or deny the legality of a company or its business practices.

So while I would very much like to meet your latest demand, I apologize I will be unable to.

hockeygal (hockeygal)
New member
Username: hockeygal

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 142.179.129.81

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 5:57 pm:

hey you, the "voice"...just wondering...why are you promoting this TTI so much? are they paying ya? are you a distributor or a, ahem, "captain" or something? you believe so passionately!! man, if my friends really want to help my financial situation..they would NOT be asking me to fork over 1400 that i barely have. They're not holding the door for me...they're charging me over 1200 bucks to let me go thru. That's what friendships are all about baby ..sarcasm drip drip God Bless YOU ha!

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 6:53 pm:

To hockeygal,

I'm guessing your comments were actually directed to me rather than the "voice", so I'll respond to your questions.

"why are you promoting this TTI so much?"
Well, my main goal in this forum is to correct misunderstandings that a number of people have and that is why I'm here.

�are they paying ya?�
Nobody pays me to post in this forum. I am defending the rights of this legitimate business as I would defend my neighbors rights, should anyone decide to make negative comments about where he works.

�are you a distributor or a, ahem, "captain" or something?�
I�m sure if you read through thread one, you should have found the answer to this one.

�you believe so passionately!!�
Well, someone has to stick up for people�s rights. Until I�m provided with real facts that TTI is really doing anything wrong, I will continue to stick up for them. All I�ve seen so far are misrepresentations. Dave continues to reference illegal pyramids and how they have affected lives negatively, but TTI doesn�t operate the way they do. This opportunity can benefit those who are willing to do some work, there�s no question about that.

"They're not holding the door for me...they're charging me over 1200 bucks to let me go thru."
Other businesses cost much more than $1200 to get into and take a whole lot more time to get set up. You may not consider the purchase/distribution of gemstones to be financially beneficial to you and that�s fine. If it�s not for you, then it�s not for you. But to bad-mouth a legitimate company like TTI because you can't seem to understand it is just morally and ethically wrong in my books.

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.33.7

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 7:10 pm:

�VOICE OF TREASON� wrote.........

�There (sic) exact response is:

An opinion will not be given in these situations because of the difficulty of establishing the value of these products.�

I have again contacted the Competition Bureau. Firstly, and as I suspected the value of the product is of no consequence in determining the legality of the marketing plan. To quote the representative of the competition Bureau, �that�s nonsense.�

Further, �VOICE OF TREASON� wrote........ �Again, Industry Canada states that this letter of opinion is just that, an opinion. These letters in know (sic) way confirm or deny the legality of a company or its business practices.�

Secondly an opinion favourable or otherwise is binding on the Commissioner. That comes directly from the competition Bureau. Your statement according to The Competition Bureau is false.

Thirdly, this is a relevant segment an actual letter sent to an unnamed company that received an unfavourable reply.

�For the above reasons the Bureau provided the opinion letter on December 22, 2003 that the proposed plan if implemented would give the Commissioner grounds to commence an inquiry under the multilevel marketing provisions of the Competition Act.�

A favourable letter would read as follows according to the representative of the Competition Bureau ....... "For the above reasons the Bureau provided the opinion letter on December 22, 2003 that the proposed plan if implemented would not give the Commissioner grounds to commence an inquiry under the multilevel marketing provisions of the Competition Act"...... That is an example of a favourable response. (Not an actual letter. I mention that so we don�t have to play at �how-did-they-get-contradictory-letters?�..... Abbott and Costello routine)

The Bureau�s representative�s comment was, �it is 'crystal clear.' If the plan was implemented it would give grounds to commence an inquiry.�

Further to that he stated the Bureau evaluates, healthcare products, diet products and many far more complicated products than emeralds. The value of the product has little or nothing to do with how the product is marketed.

Now, I�m not going to use the �L� word, but the word directly from the Competition Bureau, confirms that what you have espoused is absolutely untrue, a genuine falsehood.

Now, I�m just doing my �due diligence.� But I see I�m �ruffling feathers� because I�m doing it to well.

You�re sinking ship seems to have more hole�s then that proverbial Swiss Cheese.

gatordave

PS. Since you seem to have some kind of pull or connection with the TT I, or certainly an extremely strong interest, perhaps you might suggest, or lien on them to request a before mentioned letter.

JUST DO IT!!!

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 76
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.50.106

Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 10:10 pm:

SuperDave,
I spoke with a representative this past Monday, around 10:30 am. I didn't write down his name, but I believe it was Mike. He wasn't really familiar with Treasure Traders when I asked him about it, but I did bring up the topic of Opinion letters, because I wasn't all that familiar with them. I explained how our product was precious gemstones, specifically emeralds at this time, but soon to be diamonds, rubies, etc. Now he told me, that he didn't believe that Industry Canada would provide an opinion letter on these products, because the "appraisal is a subjective amount", and the actual valuation of these products is hard to determine. Perhaps you spoke with a different representative than me, perhaps you gave him different information than what I provided, but that is what I was told.
He referred to me to their website at:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incb-bc.nsf/en/ct01141e.html#16
And pointed me to the section on opinion letters.

Here is a quote from that page:
"Those who seek an opinion are not bound by it and should a negative opinion be given on the plan, operators remain free to adopt the plan in question, recognizing that the matter may be tested in the courts. Similarly, the Commissioner is not bound by such opinions. They are given in relation to a specific set of facts. Should a plan that is implemented be different from the plan presented to the Commissioner, or should conditions change in a way that impact of the plan, the matter could be subject to further examination and the opinion revised."

Now, perhaps my interpretation of "Similarly, the Commissioner is not bound by such opinions. ", is different from yours, but I still can't see where it says; "Secondly an opinion favourable or otherwise is binding on the Commissioner. That comes directly from the competition Bureau. Your statement according to The Competition Bureau is false."

Mr Thornton, I will not use the "L" word in this case either, because I am sure these things can be interpreted differently, just like laws, and morality can.
I do go by what I am told, and what I read, from relevant sources as being correct.

Therefore, I will not waste my time calling again, for a letter I will not receive.

I don't see any ships sinking Super Dave, they are sailing quite nicely. How is your "save the world tour" going? You have any wheels for your bus yet?

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 216.209.112.167

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 7:52 am:

To: hockeygal

As you can see, there is only one individual here (I'm also counting his identical twin), that is a TTI pro and authority on almost every aspect of this Pyramid.

Based on his relentless legally correct responses, and continual word manipulations, we know that he is definitelly the voice of his own reason, Mr. TTI himself. You can see who puts money in his pockets, honest people that can not see past his smoke screen tactics.

As someone else said earlier; if you ask the crook to tell you if it's legal to rob the bank, what do you think the crooks response would be? definitely, YES.....

Now that you know he is Mt. TTI himself, just ignore him.

You should know that an empty tin can, makes lot's noise.

the_truth (the_truth)
Member
Username: the_truth

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 199.42.80.225

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 1:33 pm:

Just correcting a few more deceitful comments...

�As you can see, there is only one individual here (I'm also counting his identical twin), that is a TTI pro and authority on almost every aspect of this Pyramid.�
So, would that mean there is also only one anti-TTI here, since all the arguments are somewhat identical?�by that, I mean they are all misrepresentations of the business.

�Based on his relentless legally correct responses, and continual word manipulations, we know that he is definitelly the voice of his own reason, Mr. TTI himself. You can see who puts money in his pockets, honest people that can not see past his smoke screen tactics.�
Actually, people that benefit from this business opportunity are those who are able to combine facts with logic and reason, and see it as an opportunity they are interested in to benefit financially. Some may be able to combine facts with logic and reason, but if the opportunity doesn�t interest them, they walk away. Others may see how it can be financially beneficial, but they can�t seem to comprehend the idea that it is perfectly ethical and legal. There is no word manipulation or smoke and mirror tactic involved. We are throwing true facts on the table and letting people decide for themselves if this is an opportunity for them to better themselves financially.

�As someone else said earlier; if you ask the crook to tell you if it's legal to rob the bank, what do you think the crooks response would be? definitely, YES.....�
If a crook told me it�s legal to rob a bank, I already know by common knowledge that it isn�t. If for some reason I didn�t have this understanding, I would gather facts from credible sources to better understand the issue. Since the main topic is regarding legality, I would probably go places where I can find actual laws pertaining to the issue. With regards to TTI, do I expect people to just take my word that this business is legal? Definitely not! I expect each and every person to do their research to find out for themselves that this is legal. Go through each and every law that you can find related to the issue and see if there is anything that TTI violates. Let's also take wmmw superhighway "fact" for example. He constantly claims this site had credibility and only real crooks are posted. Pro-TTI argued that anybody can post a crook there. Wmmw constantly tried deceiving and lying to our innocent readers to believe otherwise. So finally, somebody went right to the source and proved him wrong. You want real answers, go right to the source and get them. You want to see if TTI is legal, look at the real laws and get real facts, not the anti-TTI misrepresentations.

�Now that you know he is Mt. TTI himself, just ignore him.�
Although ignoring pro-TTI supporters may be the only way anti-TTI arguments may appear to be correct, if you�re looking for the real truth and not just a misrepresentation of it, you definitely won�t get it from anti-TTI supporters. But if you�re looking for arguments to help you feel better about your decision through false understanding, then definitely ignore the true arguments pro-TTI has.

�You should know that an empty tin can, makes lot's noise.�
Excellent observation! Usually this is only true when it comes into contact with another object.

God bless.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 117
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.32.220

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 4:31 pm:

TO: �VOICE TO REASON�

I did not come on this web site to lie or mislead anyone. I am searching for the truth no matter where it leads. Your quote from industry Canada is absolutely accurate. That is exactly word for word what is written.

However, this is what I received from Industry Canada this morning after talking to three different people with the same answer. This woman (French accent) stated this......

�I just spoke to an officer and, in a new company that wants to sell precious stones, as long as they pay the fee..... the Bureau could give an opinion but only to a company and whenever there is an opinion from the Bureau it is binding (by the Commissioner).

So if ever somebody tells a participant that they have an opinion they should be able to give a copy of this opinion to these participants.�

There it is. Now, this contradicts what you have been saying, but, it also appears to contradict what you have pointed out is written by the Bureau.

Obviously, something is wrong, but, it does not make me a liar, unless I made up those words.

I would be interested in your absolute honest opinion. Do you believe I made that up? Or, do you believe I made a error and these are not the words spoken by the representative of Industry Canada.

If you believe those words are truthful and accurate then as the self proclaimed �VOICE OF REASON� and you "THE TRUTH� as well should want to know the truth, and rather than insisting I am a liar, attempting to mislead people you should be doing what I�m doing, trying to find the truth in all of this.. Remember, you are the ones who labelled yourselves �VOICE OF REASON� and �THE TRUTH�. I was given the title �gatordave.�

Now, if what I was told his morning is true, then the company should immediately seek this letter of opinion. In my view to do otherwise leaves the door open to very serious and justifiable aspersions against this business model and people running the company. My opinion is that if this company believes they are using a legal pyramid to promote their product their own lawyer should recommend this opinion letter. Once obtained it would dispel anyone�s fear that there�s anything false or misleading about the company.

What are your�s or anyone else�s views regarding this or my truthfulness.

Will others please call 800-348-5358 Industry Canada and ask the same questions. Is an opinion letter available in reguard to selling eleralds. And is an opinion letter (particularly a favourable letter) binding on the Commissioner.

scamed_again (scamed_again)
New member
Username: scamed_again

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 198.53.45.244

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 4:33 pm:

I'm new to this forum, I have been to a TTI meeting, I have not joined the cruise yet! Does anyone know if TTI charges the G.S.T on the $1200.00 fee? If not, maybe Customs and Revenue Canada might be interested!

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 77
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 12.34.246.39

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 4:49 pm:

scammed again,
The $1200 is not a fee. Charging a fee would be illegal.The $1200 is a deposit towards your gemstone purchase. When you go to pick up your gemstones (or Go Trading Credit Card), yes you must pay the PST & GST.
If you did decide to become a distributor, you would also have to claim your income for tax purposes. Good luck with whichever decision you make.

scamed_again (scamed_again)
New member
Username: scamed_again

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 198.53.45.244

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 5:22 pm:

Thanks Voice, so if I decide to partipate in TTI, I do not need to get a GST Reg #, of course I would declare all income, but what would my clasification be eg: proprieter, etc

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 78
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.87.77

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 5:54 pm:

scammed again,
The GST is collected by TTI on the full-appraised value of them gemstones ($5000), while you are only paying the wholesale value ($1200). Thus they are collecting the GST on your behalf, so no, at this time it isn't necessary to get a GST number. You can claim the income on your personal tax return in the "other income" section. You can talk to an accountant or bookkeeper, who could give you information on a home based business (sole proprietor etc) in order to get some of the available tax write offs etc.

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.87.250

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 6:12 pm:

Dave,
Let me start by saying this. I think you are a good person, and I honestly believe you have very good intentions. I disagree with your views of TTI (obviously), and will continue to debate you on the subject, and try to offer my opinions and the facts I know are true whenever possible. I disagree with the way you do certain things, and the way you say some things. If you feel you will get results this way, great.
As for your last post, I do believe you spoke with someone at Industry Canada, and received the answer you did. I am not suggesting you made it up, as you suggested that I made up my previous post.
I would love for TTI to get this letter from Industry Canada. I have no pull or influence with them, so all I could do is request it from TTI, just like you.
I do know however, that having or not having this letter does not impact the legality of a company. Unless TTI is shown to be illegal, I will continue to support it. I obviously have a vested interest in the success of the company, and I truly believe we have helped thousands, and can help thousands more make some extra money. I have never suggested that people should quit their jobs, drop out of school, or that they would be able to buy fancy cars or big houses. All I ever said was that there is an opportunity to make some good money, if people are willing to work. People need to thoroughly check out TTI, and make their decision. I have NOT signed up a single distributor after a presentation, because I know that they are hyped up on emotion at this time. I let people think about it, give them as much information as possible, and let them decide on their own. I have been successful with this method, and so has the rest of our team.
Dave, I do not think you are �lying� intentionally in your posts. If I offended you by calling you a liar, I apologize. I should have just pointed out what I believed to be the lies themselves, intentional or not. There has been a lot of name calling in this forum, which is a shame. My principals and convictions are as strong as yours Mr. Thornton, and no matter whether it is just me, or the_truth, or 20 others, I will give relevant information so that people can make an informed decision on TTI. Bvaledis, wmmw, yourself and stalker can do all the name-calling and ridiculous comparisons you want. I will stand up for my rights, and the rights of others to promote a legal company and opportunity.

i_sleep_well (i_sleep_well)
New member
Username: i_sleep_well

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.26.156.53

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 6:13 pm:

Let me get this straight. When I pay $1200 to TTI, it includes $350 of GST, ( based on a $5000 appraised emerald ) , or do I pay an additional $350 to TTI, bringing my invoice to $1550, which they remit as GST collected? What about the PST?

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 80
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.158.87.132

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 6:42 pm:

i_sleep_well,
No, the $1200 does not include the taxes. It is a deposit. Call TTI and they will give you all the information based on the province you live in.

bruce_audley (bruce_audley)
New member
Username: bruce_audley

Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.53.28.106

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 10:31 pm:

As someone that is definitely NOT a supporter of "Treasure Traders International", I must agree that my concern was never from the stand point of legality. The laws of our country and any other countries in which "T.T.I." considers doing business, will be met and followed or there will be no "T.T.I."! I have said in past postings that this ain't no "fly by night" operation and they have most certainly done their homework when it comes to the fine details of their organization. I believe that their methodology of needing to continually bring in more recruits to feed the bottom, will eventually cripple the top. Time and time alone will prove me right or wrong. Now, about all those folks at the bottom?

Bruce

bvaledis (bvaledis)
Junior Member
Username: bvaledis

Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 216.209.112.16

Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 11:35 pm:

To: the_truth
Re: Your post on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 1:33 pm

My comments were not deceitful at all. You have always said time and time again "everyone is entitled to their opinion", so you are entitled to yours and I'm also entitled to mine.

Your opinions are always formulated around �words that people always want to hear�? You sound so protective about this business, as if you were the one that gave birth to this mad treasure game. Every time we tell you your game is based on harvesting money from innocent people, you always come back to convince us, that our thought process, what we see with our own eyes, and what we hear on the street with our own ears, is flawed, an illusion and misleading.

I do not believe you at all��

Every opinion that I provide is based on information I have received. For example; the case I mentioned earlier for everyone�s interest about the Vancouver-based multi-level marketing firm which led to a $150,000 fine and guilty pleas on two counts under the DECEPTIVE MARKETING PROVISIONS of the Competition Act., was quite informative and based on facts. In addition, it also sounded quite similar to the business you keep promoting here, the treasure game.

Here is the link again; http://competition.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incb-bc.nsf/en/ct02997e.html read it.....

Do these observations prove anything? Yes they do. They prove that you are not just offering you opinion; you make sure you drown us with motherhood and apple pie here. Your business can be closely compared to the illegal pyramid business that the Competition Bureau just shut down. You are playing with the law my friend. Just because you are one hell of a clever crook that does not mean that you are not a crook. Just because you sound intelligent and unusually helpful on this board that does not automatically make you honest either.

Some of us have the ability to see right trough you, even though you always operate in Stealth Mode.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.111.106

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 7:15 am:

TO: ALL

I have been calling and calling CKCO TV until Brent Hanson threatened to phone the police. So I kept phoning and I challenged him to call police and charge me for trying to give a story to the news media. Yesterday I again called. I was speaking with Art Beaumont, the crime reporter. For months I have been informing CKCO TV about these pyramids and about TT I. I told them about this web site. Finally last night they carried a wimpy story about Treasured Traders International with the weak-kneed Better Business Bureau, appearing to trembling �with libel phobia.� They also mentioned Factnet.

But, at least it�s a start. Art Beaumont while I was talking to him on the phone yesterday did not even tell me that his pull-the-punches segment was going to be aired only a few hours later. Believe me they didn�t want to hear about this, it is simply gotten to the point it can no longer be ignored.. Is this a democratic society with freedom of speech that can protect its �whistle blowing� citizens against police crime, intimidation, harassment, threatening, and brutality perhaps we�ll find out today?

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 120
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.111.106

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 7:37 am:

TO: BVALEDIS and any one interested

I sincerely believe today I am going to be severely beaten up by the Ontario Provincial Police in Walkerton, or killed as was Dudley George. If you do not see a posting from me today something will have happened to me. Please make enquirers. Perhaps these sites will be a way to foster change for the better in an otherwise corrupted society.

gatordave (gatordave)
Intermediate Member
Username: gatordave

Post Number: 122
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.93.111.106

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 8:13 am:

Please return e-mail with comment or request for more info}

Something to always think about, ...... the big picture vs. individual greed.

Visit some of these sites....... email me at gatoraid@sympatico.ca
Pyramid, Albania 2000 dead http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2000/03/jarvis.htm
Pyramid, Death threats. Oakville woman http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com
find Pyramid Scheme page down [last story]
Pyramid, Death threats.14 year step-granddaughter http://www.canadacourtwatch.com [click] audio files.
Check this .... http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/DSABill/DSAbill.html
T-TRAITORS-International fraud www.treasuretradersinternational.com.
C.B.C. Ottawa http://www.ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ot_emeralds20040512
CFCN article: http://www.cfcn.ca/generic/generated/hubs/consumer/
A.G. State of Maine www.portlandphoenix.com/archive/features/01/03/16/feat_pyramid.html
www.gatoraid.ca
Writer�s web site detailing Pyramid Scamms and many injustices, police brutality, violence against men and women and senior citizens etc
htt is p://www.osc.gov.on.ca/Enforcement/Proceedings/2003/rea_20031219_kippaxallan.pdf
Ontario Securities Commission re: Alan Kippax
http://www.gemsociety.org/info/gems/emerald.htm
Information on the value and treatment of emeralds
Just FYI..... U.S. law on pyramid schemes http://www.mlmlegal.com/statutes.html

(Message edited by gatordave on November 28, 2004)

make7000 (make7000)
New member
Username: make7000

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 24.150.250.47

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 10:42 am:

This is my first time out on this site and l can't believe the crap that is out here!!! You anti TTI people make me sick!!!! I know that l have joined TTI because l am looking to make some extra money. TTI is a wonderful company but it is not for everyone!! l have took some people out to a meeting and they didn't like it and thats fine. l don't want people to join who can't see what l see and that is a great way to make $7000!!!! I have not make any money as of yet but when l do this site will be one of the first to know. I said it once and l will say it again you Anti TTI people MAKE ME SICK!!!!!! I would like know what type of work some of you ANTI TTI people do!!

MAKE $7000

bruce_audley (bruce_audley)
New member
Username: bruce_audley

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.53.28.106

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 11:56 am:

make7000 - Why would people opposing (alright, some are strongly opposing) "Treasure Traders International" make you sick? That logic seems to suggest that although you say it is okay with you if some of the folks you bring to the hotal cheering session decide to walk, it really isn't. So putting it another way, "Do those friends that choose to not walk the gang plank with you, also make you sick"? Some of the people representing either side of this issue are financially set for life and challenging them to answer a flippant question about what they do for a living for no other reason then one day you may have $7,000.00 in your pocket, just doesn't sound like it is going to happen. Heck, its doesn't even make sense! Enjoy your $7,000.00 and the beautiful emeralds that one day you will able to trade for a house on "gotrading.com". I am sure our financial rewards are made all the better because of the great friends you need to bring in to the loop to support your ascension to your lofty $7,000.00 target figure!

Bruce

fairplayer (fairplayer)
New member
Username: fairplayer

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 129.97.22.32

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 11:59 am:

What do you do, make7000? I'm a university student with an honest part-time job. I don't like TTI because of the way the business is run. I agree that there are several things on this forum from Anti-TTI that I believe are wrong but what do you expect to hear about a pyramid company where many people will lose their money. Anyway, people who join TTI to take other people's money makes me sick but I will respect your decision and wish you luck. LT

wmmw (wmmw)
Member
Username: wmmw

Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.157.144.63

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 1:35 pm:

To ALL

FACTS-FACTS-FACTS-PROOFS-PROOFS-PROOFS

1- TTI has no opinion letter from Federal authorities that they can show you and us. Why?

If they are so sure their system is legal, why not asking for such an opinion letter as other REAL and ETHICAL MLM companies do BEFORE going on the market?

Such a TTI favourable letter, from the Commissioner, would have the clear and fast effect of shutting all of us, the ANTI TTI people.

We challenge all Pro TTI people to come to this room with a copy of such a letter.

2- TTI is claiming to be an honest MLM company but is not a DSA or MLMIA member that represent REAL MLM companies. http://www.dsa.ca - http://dsa.org - http://www.mlmia.org - http://mlmlegal.com .

TTI is not a DSA member since it would imply Mr. Kippax to be binded personally. Mr. Kippax could NOT hide himself BEHIND the corporate veil as he is doing right now with TTI.

3- TTI and Mr. Kippax are posted on the international SuperHighway CROOKS site, well known by international police authorities, at http://superhighway.is/iis with their real e-mail address, phone and fax numbers, plus physical address, so nobody could get confused.

4- TTI has a buy-back policy of only 10 days, which is against the federal practices with MLM companies, that have a minimum of 90 days and an illimited period for all DSA members, due to the specific nature of the MLM business.

Feel free to check the Federal Government presentation, supporting ANTI TTI (CROOKS) claims at:

http://mmprodnt.ic.gc.ca/mmpub/competitionbureau/content/language_select_noframe.html

For the buy-back policy, just go to Slide 8, in Set TWO, and Slides 5-6-7 in SET THREE.

5- You have to wait for 14 members to be on your team BEFORE receiving your $500 on your first sale, $500 on your second one, and $6000 on your group: 2 + 4 + 8, for a total of $7000.

6- That means that you're paid for sponsoring, which is totaly ILLEGAL. If you don't sponsor, you get nothing save papers (certificates).

You still have to GIVE a lot of money to TRY to trade your certificates with Go Trading, that is a totally newcomer on the market and is not known by the industry.

In fact, Gotrading registered their domain name on March 30, 2004.

You can check GoTrading is a REAL newcomer on the Whois site displaying the following info about them:

"Domain GOTRADING.NET
Date Registered: 3/30/2004
Date Modified: 10/26/2004
Expiry Date: 3/30/2005
DNS1: ns.gotrading.net
DNS2: ns.gotrading.net
Registrant
2024583 Ontario Limited
181 Greenwood Ave
Toronto, ON (CA)
M4L 2P8

Administrative Contact
GOtrading.net
Marketing Manager
439 King St W, 4th F
Toronto (CA)
M5V 1K4
4166448720
D-103476qqmt@usersa3.domainsatcost.ca
Technical Contact
GOtrading.net
Tech Support
439 King St w, 4th F
Toronto (CA)
M5V 1K4
4166448720
D-103478mcmk@usersa3.domainsatcost.ca
Registrar: Namescout.com"

7- Go to any jewellery store in your area and ask them if they would even accept to buy your TTI stones.

8- If TTI ceases its activities at any point in time, TTI will not have the money to pay ALL of its retailers since it is depending on newcomers to pay the CAPTAINS.

9- Only 1 out of 15 will be paid, the CAPTAINS.

10- 14 out of 15 will lose their money.

11- Most of them will be left with pieces of paper with the only paper value.

12- Pro TTI people have been unable, up to know, to clearly give us a clear payout for only ONE Gem-Pack as any other LEGAL and HONEST organization can do easily.
$ %
Retail Price: ? 100%
Wholesale Price: ? ?
Retail Profit: ? ?
Bonuses on group volume: ? ?
Other overrides if any: ? ?
Total PAYOUT: ? ?

13- Mr. Stephen Knight has been fired from the JJ international network of appraisers on beginning of November 2004, for ETHICS VIOLATION, as you can read CLEARLY on the Jewelry Judge's site at: http://www.jewelryjudge.net/SK.html

14- If you get caught, you could go to JAIL for 5 years and be fined up to $200,000.

15- With a criminal record, you will be unable to pass the customs to go to USA.

16- You will lose your friends, your credibility and your respectability.

17- If you're ready to work hard and put time and dedication in it, there is a lot of REAL good and legal opportunities out on the market.

So... open your eyes BEFORE being caught in the TTI PYRAMIDAL and PONZI SCHEME!!!

voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason)
Member
Username: voice_of_reason

Post Number: 81
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.242.228.75

Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 2:38 pm:

Well said Fairplayer.
What a shame that people in our society refuse to "respect" others decisions, whether they agree with them or not. Many wars have been waged over differences in opinion that have been blown out of proportion.
What makes me sick, is when people try to shove their opinions down the throats of others.
I don't believe we live in a corrupted society, or that the world needs saving from itself. Sure there are bad people out there, but I believe most people are inherently good, and are just trying to make a better life for themselves.

make7000:
What is it that makes you sick? What they do or how they act?
Bruce, Bill, and David, stalker etc. have all been, or are successful businessmen running "traditional" businesses, and what they do is unimportant for the purposes of this thread. It's how they conduct themselves that�s important. Having, or having h

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