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gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1918
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:08 pm: | 
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Again seniors the target of pyramid fraud. And it is not the product that "keeps the scam "just inside the law and perfectly legal." Never has.
RV scheme took 172 buyers for ride, lawsuit says
2 executives in time-share deals face fraud, racketeering charges
Rene Stutzman | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted January 2, 2007 SANFORD --
The idea sounded ingenious: Sell those big luxury motor coaches, like those used by NASCAR drivers and professional golfers, as time shares.
Executives of a Sanford motor-coach manufacturer set up a new company and sold $8 million worth of time shares before the whole thing collapsed two years ago, leaving buyers with $7 million in losses, according to court documents.
The company, Universal Luxury Coaches LLC, is now in the hands of a court-appointed receiver, who is suing the founders and managers to recover money for investors. The receiver contends the company was a pyramid scheme that paid early investors with money from newer ones.
Two executives are awaiting trial on charges of fraud and racketeering: Universal Luxury Coaches' former president, Scott Spor, 49, of Altamonte Springs, and James P. Hollis, 65, of Satellite Beach, its vice president of marketing.
Both men contend they are innocent, victims of good intentions gone bust. Investors, though, say someone should go to prison.
"They hooked me," said Joe Bussert, 84, of Winter Haven, who lost $12,000. He is one of 172 buyers -- average age 72 -- who lost money in the venture, according to the Florida Office of Financial Regulation.
People who bought in were offered far more than a week's vacation in a fancy motor coach. They would get a 10 percent return on their investment every year, and at the end of three years, a full refund on request, according to the sales materials.
Dexter Busching, 86, of Hernando cashed out a certificate of deposit to plow $65,000 into the deal. That's because CDs don't pay anything close to 10 percent interest, he said.
"This is my life savings, practically," he said.
At first, everything worked the way it was supposed to, Busching said. He received several monthly checks, but then they stopped coming.
"That's been over three years ago," Busching said. When the checks stopped, state regulators sent an investigator to the company's office in Sanford. When she visited in September 2004, the office was empty and closed.
Company officials later told the investigator that Universal no longer had any employees and had just $89 in the bank, according to court records.
The company receiver, Gary Lipson, contends the time-share plan started as an idea to relieve a business bind at Featherlite Inc., a manufacturer of trailers and motor coaches. In 2001, Featherlite's stock price was languishing. It also had too many unsold luxury coaches and looming credit problems, according to court pleadings.
Spor, the only company executive who commented directly to the Orlando Sentinel, was a business consultant at the time. He said he advised Featherlite president Conrad Clement, an Iowa businessman, that he could boost sales by creating a time-share program. No one had done such a thing before.
Featherlite's board of directors rejected the idea. But Clement, Spor and other Featherlite insiders moved ahead, according to court pleadings. They launched Universal from space Featherlite was leasing in Sanford. Clement was chairman and put up the seed money, $257,000, according to court records. Spor was president.
Two of Clement's sons, Tracy Clement, 40, and Eric Clement, 37, already executives of Featherlite, also were officers of Universal. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1919
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:12 pm: |
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Those people and other Featherlite insiders made money from Universal, according to the receiver. Conrad Clement, 62, got back his initial investment plus $132,000 in consulting fees, according to court records.
Spor said he made less than $100,000.
Lipson filed suit in July against each of them and Featherlite, accusing them of defrauding time-share investors to prop up Featherlite and its stock price.
Lawyers for Featherlite, in their court pleadings, say the company was not responsible for what went on at Universal.
According to Spor, the company plan was to sell time shares until it had money to buy a coach from Featherlite. The coach then would be leased to a corporation or another third party, earning money to pay investors their 10 percent return.
Universal set out to buy 20 coaches. It wound up buying six, and its rental program never produced enough revenue. The company's total rental income, in two years of operation, was $400,000, according to court records.
At the same time, sales agents and managers would pocket 25 cents of every dollar in sales commissions, according to the receiver. In the case of Busching, the investor who wrote a $65,000 check, commissions ate up $16,250.
Hollis, Universal's former vice president of marketing, earned an estimated $149,000 in commissions during one six-month period, according to court records.
Now awaiting trial on the criminal charges, Hollis would not be interviewed by the Sentinel. His attorney, Harrison "Butch" Slaughter, said his client thought he was involved in a legitimate business.
Spor, who also is awaiting trial on criminal charges, said he defrauded no one. His business plan was valid, he said. If state regulators had left him alone, he says, Universal would have worked through its early cash-lean months.
"Because of all of this, I've lost everything," Spor said. "I can't get a decent job. We're living in an apartment."
Both Slaughter and Spor said it was Conrad Clement who, behind the scenes, ran Universal. Reached by phone at his office in Cresco, Iowa, Clement would not comment.
Clement's sons were not available for comment, but in court pleadings they said they were not involved in Universal's time-share sales.
Three months after Universal's receiver sued on behalf of time-share buyers, Conrad Clement sold Featherlite to a Cincinnati corporation for $109 million. He opted to keep the Sanford operation that manufactures luxury coaches.
He, son Tracy Clement and another investor are now its owners. The operation employs 300 people, according to a company press release.
"Tracy and I are very excited to be heading up this new company," Conrad Clement said in a statement. "We look forward to continue to offer luxury coach customers all across North America the same superior products and services that are synonymous with the Featherlite name." |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1920
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:28 pm: |
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Comments
Krazy Kat...... AOL Reply Tuesday Jan 2
If it sounds too good to be true....., actually, this didn't even sound good to begin with.
guido
Lake Worth, FL .......Reply Tuesday Jan 2
kind of like Fla insurance companies- take a premium from one to pay another ,until the big one hits -then no money robert hayden
Alpharetta, GA ..... Wednesday Jan 3
even after Enron, some crooks think that they can pull this off.
i say send them to the middle east for a fast hanging!
FoolsGold
Fort Myers, FL. ...... Wednesday Jan 3
I find it a bit confusing with all these various corporate entities but it seems that this was simply a scheme to lure people into investing in some program that would later acquire luxury RVs and later rent them out and if it were able to do this would pay some magic figure return of ten percent but irrespective of the notion being somewhat unsound to begin with the executives involved were siphoning off sufficient "fees" that the RV rental income could not possibly have become a profitable venture.
walter r .....Fayetteville, GA Wednesday Jan 3
there are a lot of skeleton in the clements clostes |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1921
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 10:39 pm: |
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Actually it was a Pozi Scheme the twin of a pyramid fraud both illegal, product or not.
dave |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1923
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 1:34 am: |
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This is the link to the story above.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/orl-featherlite0207jan02,0,5766283.story?page=2&coll=orl-news-promos-seminole
dave
www.crimebustersnow.com gatoraid@sympatico.ca 905-963-3389 24/7 We return your calls in North America and 22 countries world-wide. |
fullofquestions
Junior Member
Username: fullofquestions
Post Number: 40
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 70.57.32.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 11:33 pm: |
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This really bites. |
fullofquestions
Junior Member
Username: fullofquestions
Post Number: 41
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 70.57.32.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 11:34 pm: |
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Is there any recourse for these poor investors. |
fullofquestions
Junior Member
Username: fullofquestions
Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 70.57.32.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 11:35 pm: |
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Any completed leagal prodedures. |
independentthinker
New member
Username: independentthinker
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 69.157.104.151
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 2:14 pm: |
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Know what is really a fraud? A different site online that offers free legal advice then solicits "donations" to help pay insurance on their van. I am out there working a real job and you want me to help you pay your van insurance so you can keep attacking others? Who's interests are you really protecting? Revenge is sweet but I'm not going to pay your van insurance because you blame everyone else for the bad circumstances that have happened in your life. With the hundreds of posts I have seen around the internet from you and the time it must take to read and respond to others, it's no wonder you can't afford insurance. Get a real JOB! I've never seen a chip so big on anyones shoulder and you are asking us to each take a piece of it....no thanks! |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1945
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 6:19 pm: |
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To "fullofquestions" who asks "Any completed procedures." Yes! The lawyer operating a pyramid fraud in Woodbridge On. just got his "a$$ kicked" in court by two women who beat his contract. The clients we represent will be at him in the next few months. The first appearence is Feb. 16 /06. We are suing for punitive damages to a max of $10,000. Too bad these women didn't find us. They only sued to get their money back. We're confident we will get the punitive damages. Thanks for asking.
dave |
make7000
Intermediate Member
Username: make7000
Post Number: 263
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 24.150.251.75
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:41 pm: |
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Now thats funny!!!!!! You are so right independentthinker!!!! I am glad others are starting to see gatordave for what he is. A poor old man who need to get a job!! And a fraud who is looking for a hand out!!!
GET A JOB YOU BUM |
funnygeorge
New member
Username: funnygeorge
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.12.8.254
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 2:22 am: |
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i think that the whole idea of these corporations, that is after all, what they basically are, having no altruistic goals
A corporation is not capable of altruistic goals. Jerry Mander, a successful advertising executive, stated, “Not being human, corporations do not have morals or altruistic goals. So decisions that may be antithetical to community goals or environmental health are made without misgivings. Corporations, however, seek to hide their amorality and attempt to act as if they were altruistic. Corporations tend to advertise the very qualities they do not have in order to allay negative public perceptions. When corporations say "we care," it is almost always in response to the widespread perception that they do not care. And they don't. How could they? They don't have feelings or morals.” |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1956
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:15 pm: |
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You're exactly right "funnygeorge" I believe, as I have always maintained that the majority are exactly as you point out. There are few, but only a few that do not put their own interest ahead of what they say are their goals. That is why we go after them as well as the organization this "Make 7000" loud mouth idiot above was connected with, closed down as a fraud in England. He screwed over his own friends and family to MAKE 7 GRAND. Sick ba$tard.
As you can see even MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) is in trouble for their unconscionable fund raising activities. The Ontario Police Association raising funds with a tiny % (less than MADD) going to help kids, as an excuse for bilking seniors, businesses the ethnic communities etc., with the U.S. telemarketing for profit company grabbing 84.5% and the Police Association also taking a big junk for themselves. Then there’s Bill Gates’ billion dollar foundation that has come under fire recently for helping children in countries where he also has huge investments in companies that are polluting the same area with toxic fumes that are the source of the poisoning of the children, and their methods of daily operation causing the misquote problem that is causing the diseases and also these corporations are promoting prostitution that is causing the expanding Aids Virus problem.
NOW, the “MAKE 7000” idiot above is ticked off because I beat both the illegal and corrupt corporations TTI and BIM and “kicked the a$$” of their corrupt founder Alan Kippax in the Superior Court of Ontario, TTI Corporation that the sick “MAKE 7000” was a distributor for.
If I was operating a corrupt organization, I certainly would not be telling the world how these corrupt organizations operate and how to recognize one. I especially would not be exposing the corrupt RCMP, OPP, Ontario Police Association, the Association of Fire Chiefs, the Mayor of Oshawa that welcomed the fraudulent Millennium Teleservices to his city, MADD, American Chamber of Commerce, the corruption in the membership of the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and the rest of them. There are powerful people behind these organizations. If they could find the slightest thing wrong with our organization they have the power to criminally charge us immediately, and also sue us big time. We, of course, don't have that luxury or power to use on them.
But the criminal Alan Kippax and Hamilton RCMP Officer Harold Stewart’s father, Dave Stewart operating the corporate pyramid frauds, TTI and BIM, already tried to sue me for $10,000,000 for defamation and an injunction to shut down our website, and like I say we “kicked their a$$” in Superior Court. “Make 7000” smarting from that, must be in a desperate fit, since he read the Judges decision, or had it read to him. He really doesn’t read very well you know, and retains little by the looks of his latest ridiculous posting. “MAKE 7000” has a “one track” mind and little or no sense, and always glad when some other narrow minded idiot comes to the forum to back him up. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1958
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:22 pm: |
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One thing I do disagree with "funnygeorge" is the idea that a "corporation not being human is not capable of moral or altruistic goals." It is controlled by humans and if they are honest and ethical they are capable of keeping the corporation ethical and altruistic.
dave
These warnings are brought to you by www.crimebustersnow.com contact gatoraid@sympatico.ca 905-963-3389 24/7 We return your calls in North America and 22 countries world-wide. |
make7000
Intermediate Member
Username: make7000
Post Number: 264
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 24.150.251.75
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
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Yeah J.A.D you are the man!! You are such the man that you have to solicite "donations" to help pay your insurance.
The one thing l can count on is a good laugh when l come on here and read your post. You are good for a laugh J.A.D. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1959
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 1:55 am: |
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You're hardly worth answering “MAKE 7000”. But, for the benefit of people reading this, Crime Stoppers (a non profit organization) has a vast number of vehicles paid for with donations plus all the insurances etc. This is my personal vehicle that I am donating the use of to our organization to help other people. If the public would like to help us upgrade to a professional van to go to schools warning kids, it's their choice. At least I tell them "up front" what I’m about, unlike you, you deviant slimy fraud artists. You are such a vicious anonymous idiot “MAKE 7000”. This organization was formed only because Crime Stoppers Phone Busters and the rest of the corrupt law enforcement refuses to do anything about filthy thieves like you that steal from seniors, high school kids, even your own friends and family.
I would be extremely happy to not be doing what I'm doing but, our filthy corrupt Attorney General of Ontario refuses to enforce laws against pyramid fraud and Ponzi schemes because of all the dirty RCMP, OPP, Mpp’s, Mayor's wives, chief of police’s wives, jail guards, CRA agents, corrupt lawyers and their wives, accountants, church ministers, high ranking school board officials, a prosecuter and college professor for god sake, bankers, the money launder Toronto Dominion Bank, American Chamber of Commerce, the local Chambers of Commerce members, BBB members etc., etc., involved in pyramid fraud and money laundering throughout this province, nor will they lift a finger to protect seniors and high school kids from scum like you "7000". They won't even go to high schools to warn kids what pyramid fraud and Ponzi schemes are about.
If you think I enjoy being on the streets in the freezing cold warning people about vicious fraudulent scum like you “7000”, as on this internet link, think again reprehensible punk.
In the Sunday Toronto Star the Crown Attorney is quoted as stating to lawyer Ed Tonello, representing victims... “he is too busy with murders and home invasions to worry about white collar crime.”
Now it’s official, in Ontario what I have been telling everyone for years, the reason these crooks and white collar gangsters are taking citizens, particularly seniors for billions and calling it legal, because if it wasn't, as they say, "THE POLICE WOULD SHUT US DOWN", is because our filthy corrupt Crown Attorney and Attorney General of this Mafia and organized crime influenced province, just don’t give a sweet damn! They tell the media to tell victims to report fraud and the victim believes they will do something about it, only to be intimidated, laughed at, harassed, assaulted and arrested on false charges if they, the victims persist in complaining. The dirty corrupt ba$tards in the police fraud department, the mafia influenced Chief of police, the Mayor of Toronto, to the Crown Attorney, to the Attorney General right up to the Premier of this money laundering Province are running the biggest fraud of all; phony B.S. false and misleading law enforcement. You vicious mean vile hypocritical ba$tards.
From CrimeBustersNow you at least get the truth.
Check this blog...
http://crimebustersnow.blogspot.com
dave
These truths and warnings are brought to you by www.crimebustersnow.com contact gatoraid@sympatico.ca 905-963-3389 24/7 We return your calls in North America and 22 countries world-wide. |
funnygeorge
New member
Username: funnygeorge
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.12.8.254
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:32 am: |
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in truth gatordave, if the people running the corporation are honest and ethical then yes, the corporation hhas a better chance of being the same, however, There are two imperatives that define almost all business actions. In his 1991 book, In the Absence of the Sacred, writer (and philosopher) Jerry Mander stated “Profit is the ultimate measure of all corporate decisions. It takes precedence over community well-being, worker health, public health, peace, environmental preservation or national security. The profit imperative and the growth imperative are the most fundamental corporate drives; together they represent the corporation's instinct to "live."” So we see that, at the moment, corporations on a grand scale don’t care what, or who is being trampled under their feet. Now, while there are some cases in which the law has prevailed and the offending corporations have been brought to justice, this is by no means what happens every time. Enron was a victory for the law; however this was not the case in the State of Indiana vs. Ford Motor Company. The Ford Pinto had been released into the mainstream of car dealing when it was discovered that the gas tank was susceptible to leakage with an impact velocity of only twenty-five miles. However, top executives at Ford, when told about the problem, decided it would cost too much to recall the fast selling car. It took almost a year and a half before the Pinto was finally recalled. This was entirely too slow. In the time it took for the car to be recalled, over 800 people had died from the faulty gas tank. Following the recall, Ford spent millions lobbying so that laws for better safety would not be passed. As you can see, the imperTIVES of a corproation are capable of overruling any morality on the part of the owners |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1960
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 3:38 pm: |
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I agree 100%. I studied the Ford Pinto case. The "bean counters" concluded it would be significantly cheaper to pay the claims for the dead and badly burned, even children then it would be to recall the vehicles. It was simple mathematics void of moral responsibility.
But would you not agree it is strong headed advocates like myself supported by hundreds of perhaps less vocal and the more timid that got the "job done" in exposing that crime.
And again I would disagree. This time in the statement "the imperatives of a corporation are capable of overruling any morality on the part of the owners." I disagree with the word overruling and would say instead "the imperatives of a corporation are capable of corrupting the morality of the owners."
The owners are capable of overruling anything. They have the power as long as they're in power. Unfortunately what we are doing again, which these forums are guilty of, is "chewing the fat" over semantics and analyzing the problems to death, instead of just acting. I act. That's why I'm called an activist!
Again I keep reminding everyone the person who set up this forum did not spend their life talking about the problem of brainwashing. He sued the CofS for 8.7 mil for brainwashing, and won. Where can you get a better "hands on" lesson than that?
What I am attempting to achieve is get individuals involved doing something about the problem instead of spending valuable time just talking about it. There are so many people on these forums apparently well educated and articulate but plain stupid and without a clue on how to achieve changing the problems they so perfectly articulate about.
The commercial of the fellow choking while his friends and co-workers articulate on the proper procedure of the Heimlich Maneuver is a graphic example. The fellow at the next table simply gets up and performs the maneuver saving the poor choking victim's life.
So, which are you? The doer or the talker?
These truths and warnings are brought to you by www.crimebustersnow.com contact gatoraid@sympatico.ca 905-963-3389 24/7 We return your calls in North America and 22 countries world-wide. |
funnygeorge
Junior Member
Username: funnygeorge
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.12.8.254
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
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truth is in thy mouth gatordave
i am a doer to the extent that i cant change anything but i know what is wrong and what needs to be changed, that is why i am posting
now in response toAnd again I would disagree. This time in the statement "the imperatives of a corporation are capable of overruling any morality on the part of the owners." I disagree with the word overruling and would say instead "the imperatives of a corporation are capable of corrupting the morality of the owners.", I would say that this is true to the extent that the owners remain moral
I also dont believe that they are in complete control. As I stated in my first post in this thread, they, the owners are moved by outside influences, i.e. the demands of society.
the only way that we can i think really bring about change in the actions of the corpoarations is to hold them to a higher moral standard than they are now. A corporation has much more effect on society than many institutions out there. Also, corporations like Pfizer, Microsoft, and the late Enron effect, or have effected, a massive amount of society, from monetary and political areas, to foreign and domestic commerce. This truth was, for a while largely ignored by those who could change it. Thomas Donaldson, a cotemporary American philosopher, stated that “This neglect is fading. Philosophers have recently begun to discuss topics such as the moral status of corporations, theories of property appropriate to corporations, and the responsibilities of corporate managers. One reason for the increase in interest lies in the evolution of the corporation itself. It is to be expected that (people) philosophers, with their attraction to ethics, should be drawn to explore an institution that has become so powerful that it daily touches the lives of hundreds of millions of people. To underscore the brute economic power of the modern corporation, one need only point out that Exxon, Inc. grosses more money than any single government in the world, excluding the United States and U.S.S.R.” So I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about this higher moral standard issue
Something amusing: the advertisement for the ford pinto at one point said, " the Pinto leaves you with a warm feeling" appropriate somehow |
funnygeorge
Junior Member
Username: funnygeorge
Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.12.8.254
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 12:47 am: |
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to clarify. i am a talker i guess
i come up with the ideas of change
and others implement them, now, asa to your statement, "I agree 100%. I studied the Ford Pinto case. The "bean counters" concluded it would be significantly cheaper to pay the claims for the dead and badly burned, even children then it would be to recall the vehicles. It was simple mathematics void of moral responsibility." I agree completely, and would also like to say that this is a perfect examplw of where some outside influence overcame the morality of the owners, i mean, they hasd a form of morality, most every one does, its what keeps us from killing people, and in this case it was overruled by an outside influence |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1961
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 11:33 am: |
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And those who had the power allowed themselves to be morally corrupted and so I still disagree they were "overruled." Had they simply listened to at least one man inside the company and acted on his warning the vehicles would have been recalled. But again I don't feel they were overruled but rather they were persuaded to abandon morals and not act. i.e. someone approaches a church minister to operate a pyramid fraud and he, for money agrees, he is not overruled. He could throw them out of the church but chooses rather to abandon his/her morals. If mislead, by lies to act that is a separate issue. But what does all this debate do to stop the problem and make them accountable.
These people running illegal scams actually laugh along with law enforcement. I have been in these meetings on the inside, I know. They laugh and say the suckers and "marks" will ••••• and complain but they won't do anything.
And it's true. It's all over this forum. I have done something and with the few who have helped, we have taken action. But we don't have the resources to hit them really hard and fast. But with a few dollars and the help of a dedicated lawyer, (if such an animal exists) it could be done so easily. I could file the papers; print the pamphlets for schools and senior homes. File civil actions, get news coverage etc. etc. and what would it cost? $5 from every victim of just the TTI corporation would be enormous. Victims like those victimized by that disgusting filth "7000". $5 would be an incredible half million dollars to after these crooks.
But here we have victims who gave these crooks from $1200 to $50,000 and more who choose to either remain silent or ••••• and complain but not pool $5 each to fight the scum, expose them and close them down. Explain that logically! |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 11:45 am: |
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You seem to rile against corrupt corporations. Why not join our organization with a $25 donation and see what can be accomplished. The entertainment value alone, "funnygeorge" is worth $25.
And as far as action is concerned, if 50, 100, or 200 victims would show up at TTI and BIM corporate headquarters or Canadian Diamond Traders or any of these corrupt corporations demanding their money back and complaining how these crooks are defrauding and corrupting our youth, believe me it would make an impact world-wide.
With the greatest of handicaps, transportation being the greatest I have nonetheless found a few decent people in the media who will now cover such an event, as well as alternative media; students and others wanting to do something. All we need is a bit of “seed” money to organize, file documents, transportation to get them filed etc. and victims willing speak out and bang on corporate desks and expose this corporate corruption. So instead of re-hashing this issue "funnygeorge" why not help us do something about it.
BTW even Robert Fitzpatrick the author of "False Profits" and expert court witness and President of the organization, Pyramid Scheme Allert has tentatively agree to come to Canada if we can organize something. The Toronto Sun is interested and CTV's "W5" is also interested in the story.
dave
p.s. to Bruce Audley - why not put our differences aside, throw in 100 bucks and let’s make a difference. I put in far more than that each and every month from my pension. Again if I was in this for the money, why did I not accept Kippax's offer and make a millions quietly without all this pain and aggravation. Why would I, at age 65, roof a house to get enough money for pamphlets and business cards?
And I did get a Superior Court decision confirming that TTI and BIM are not “perfectly legal” but rather prima facie in violation of both the Competition Act and Sec.206(1)(e) of the CCC. That cost me personally over $1000 cash plus all my time and emotional stress. This, to help particularly our youth and seniors. |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 293
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 4:43 pm: |
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"Dave" - Oh come on now, surely I rate more than a p.s.? While it is true that we both had the same view on the "T.T.I.Co" fiasco, our differences on how to protect investors were as different as night and day! I maintained then as I do now, "let the investor beware". Until the governmment declares "T.T.I.Co." and other similar investment opportunities illegal, then the matter is NOT legal rather, simply greedy people hoping to get "rich quick". And while it is interesting how the governments of the United Kingdom, United States and Australia have chosen to deal with operations such as this, it has nothing to do with Canadian law on Canadian soil!
It appears obvious that the laws should be strengthened here in Canada as these types of so called "investment operations" seem to be growing exponentially however; I have seen few politicians with the stomach for tackling this issue. But, until such a time as the laws can be strengthened in this country, I am left with the only reasonable alternative and that is to advise people that these organizations as well as their spawn, are nothing more than pyramid structures hiding behind an imaginary cloak of merchandising opportunity. Still, one is left to wonder the question, "If there is a court ruling stating that these organizations are violating the Competition Act, why are the police not leading the vanguard to stamp them out BEFORE they have had the opportunity to flourish?"
I have forwarded you $100.00 this afternoon as you requested. It comes the only way that you would receive it - with no conditions! The money has absolutley nothing to do with either our similarities nor our differences and besides, I have sent more than that simply to support the ability of this forum to be there for all of us. No, it has more to do with the fact that deep down inside, I respect that you asked. You and I were never meant to agree on the principle of how we tackle these pyramid schemes because your style is confrontational and mine leans very much more to placing the responsibility for the success of these imaginary businesses squarely on the shoulders of the investor. Whether old, young, destitute or wealthy, it is the individual investor that supports these businesses with the only thing that matters to them - MONEY! The minute people stop buying into the ridiculous claims of easy wealth, the sooner these thinly veiled pyramid schemes will disappear from the face of the world. Personally, I ain't holdn' my breath! |
funnygeorge
Junior Member
Username: funnygeorge
Post Number: 31
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.12.8.254
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:07 pm: |
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i am sorry, that i cannot join your organization
the reason that I am posting is so that I can introduce a view point for discussion, now
what do u think of this
Daniel J.H. Greenwood (stated) [Professor of Law, U. of Utah], SEATTLE JOURNAL FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE, Fall-Winter 2005, Online, LEXIS-NEXIS, p. 290. “The metaphor of personhood, however, often goes far beyond recognition of the corporation's legal standing. Instead, the metaphorical description of a firm as a "person" becomes a rhetorical justification for treating the firm as if it had value independent from its usefulness to its participants. But, firms are not the same as the people who make them up. It is always an open question whether protecting the entity will protect or harm the people it affects: just as protecting the sovereignty of a state may or may not help its subjects, so too protecting the autonomy of a corporation has no necessary connection to the good of those dependent on it.”
They, corporations, want us to treat them as individuals, yet they continue to act immorrally.
Dont they know that we hold individuals to moral standards? And if they want to be recognized as said individuals, should they not also fall under the same moral standards that we hold corporations to? I would like to hear your view on this "gatordave". |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 294
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
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"funnygeorge" - Thought provoking ideas on this forum are not only welcomed but encouraged. Statements by third parties while interesting, can hardly be construed as original. It would be relevant to know what YOU are thinking and not a select number of the millions of available writers that are within easy reach of all of us. What does "funnygeorge" personally think about corporate and societal morality? Where does "funnygeorge" sit on the issue of morality within the corporation versus the morality of the individual?
For snappy quotes, "Google Search" is within the reach of every mouse, including yours. But as the authors you quote have already published their thoughts and made them available in the public domain, we more importantly want to know where you stand on the mores and issues of the day!
Bruce |
fullofquestions
Intermediate Member
Username: fullofquestions
Post Number: 172
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 70.57.32.25
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:39 pm: |
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Everyone here on this thread is passionate about their views. Keep up the good fight. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1963
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 12:43 pm: |
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You’re absolutely right Bruce you certainly do rate more than just a Post Scrip for sure. Though It’s clear by your feigned and joking “indignation” that you knew that was not my intent.
But there are serious issues here; there are differences and there is substance in the statements you make and the questions you raise. And setting aside the usual defensive venom that is the prefix and the suffix to many, if not most of my posting I would like to address some of them.
But first, I must say I was somewhat taken aback by your generous donation to this radical organization. Also I was amused at your comment “It comes the only way that you would receive it - with no conditions!”
Now, it’s true we both had the same view on TTI fiasco and that was that they were in fact operating and illegal pyramid scheme. Your approach to counter this company was, as it is now, a conservative “let the investor beware” and to condemn TTI and pyramid fraud in general here, and I suppose in your private life whenever the opportunity presents itself. Mine is a more radical “in your face,” up on the stage, place the vice president under citizen’s arrest, call in the cops, try to force a prosecution, obtain an injunction closing them down while awaiting trial, dogging and picketing their meetings with a bull horn until the authorities did just that! But here authorities did not! In England, by contrast, we were received differently and after contacting Interpol, Scotland Yard etc., as you are aware, authorities very quickly did get an injunction or whatever it took, and shut down TTI until the court made its final ruling.
Interestingly, and ironically my approach was supported by the propaganda of the very government agency charged with the responsibility to close down pyramid and Ponzi schemes in Canada. On the Competition Bureau website was a picture of a very angry looking character shouting through a megaphone about fraud. I asked a simple question of the Competition Bureau…. “Who was this character supposedly shouting at, and where was he supposedly shouting…. in his closet??? Having injected this bit of common sense into the issue after one of my arrests; that picture childishly disappeared from the Competition Bureau website. I had even posted the link to it here on Factnet. One person, it seems, can influence government even if, as it is in this case, it results in an undersirable effect.
Now, as far as the citizen’s arrest is concerned, during March, “Fraud Prevention Month” it was written in their propaganda “We need the public’s assistance to Identify, Apprehend and Prosecute Fraud.” lol ……. And that’s why I call it B.S. propaganda. In this country politicians write laws so we can brag to ourselves and the world of our democratic freedoms to challenge even the state itself. And it’s great, until some day, someone actually exercises these rights. That’s when we find they are only for “window dressing”; a fraud in themselves to be taken away if you put them to use. Because that is exactly what I did: I “identified” the fraud, “apprehended” the fraudsters and delivered them to the authorities to be “prosecuted.” It was the authorities who refused to uphold their pact with citizens of this country or enforce their own propaganda. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1964
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 12:47 pm: |
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That brings us to the next issue of the legality of TII, and I might add that my actions above would themselves be a violation of both civil and criminal law if TTI was in fact legal. Now, the only thing differentiating TTI from Women Empowering Women illegal pyramid recruiting fraud was this grossly over appraised “smoke and mirrors” emerald. Later you changed your original position on the illegality of TTI based upon the emerald after exploring the subject further, in consultation with professionals, and then came back to the forum with your conclusions having been led to believe that the key to this scam being “just inside the law” and therefore “perfectly legal,” at least until the law is revised, was the over appraised emeralds. And of that, Bruce, I have yet to change your opinion.
My position is, and always has been, that the emerald or any other product used to subtitle cash in any pyramid is totally irrelevant to the fraud, even genuine 24 karat gold bars, because for one thing any of these items constitutes a security as defined by the C.C.C. Sec. 206 (1)(e) as in …. “…is a party to any scheme, contrivance or operation of any kind by which a person, on payment of any sum of money, or the giving of any valuable security…” But, let us not forget the “smoke and mirrors within the smoke and mirrors” in that it was unnecessary to ever complete a sale or a purchase of an emerald but only to obtain a piece of paper called “a purchase order certificate.” That way one could place $1200 on the same 4 tier pyramid board game as WEW, recruit two more to do the same, motivate the team to do likewise, retire as “captain” with $9600 keep $7000 and give Kippax (TTI) $2600 and burn the certificate. This then, is in fact, is also a pyramid scheme offered without a product; the product only being an option. Authority: The Dictionary of Can. Law Pg. 1142… Security…. “…any document constituting evidence of an option.”
Further on the legal issue; there was never a dispute by anyone, including TTI followers from the founder Alan Kippax to Vice President Oliver Kontz, nor the rest of them, in fact they were quite emphatic and only too willing to point out that this same pyramid game without a product is a criminal offence but, theirs was not. And the illegality of the WEW pyramid fraud is in fact supported by criminal prosecutions and dismissed appeals. As well, the seriousness of these schemes was addressed by more than one judge of both the criminal and civil courts. Ref: Book Of Authorities of The Defendant (David John Thornton) in TTI & BIM v. DJT – case law - R. v. MacKenzie [1982] O.J. No. 415 On. Supreme Court - Court of Appeal Toronto, Ontario. And R. v. Richardson [1999] O.J. No. 5160 No. 98/04385 On. Court of Justice (Provincial Division) Newmarket, On.. Both of these decisions were discussed and accepted by the Judge in my case as relevant to the illegality of TTI and BIM. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1965
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 12:54 pm: |
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So the contentious legal issue is whether a product makes a pyramid scheme legal. In response please consider: Authorities: C.C.C. of Canada which makes it clear, it does not; at Sec 206(1)(e). Also the Dictionary of Can. Law… “SCHEME OF PYRAMID SELLING. Pg.1113 "(a) A scheme for the sale or lease of a product whereby one person (the “first” person) pays a fee to participate in the scheme and reserves the right to receive a fee, commission or other benefit (i) in respect of the recruitment into the scheme of other persons either by the first person or any other person (ii) in respect of sales or leases made, other than by the first person….” … Combines Investigation Act R.S.C. 1985, c. C-34, s. 55.
I think the problem Bruce, is that perhaps you don’t realize the laws you say should be written or “tighten up” to outlaw the likes of TTI and BIM and the rest are in fact already written and enforceable but as I see, those who advised you either withheld that information or, are also uniformed. Even the judge hearing my defense in the $10,000,000 law suit brought against me by TTI and BIM relied on me to point out the laws, presenting these precedent cases and evidence; admitting he was no expert in these laws and the workings of MLM and Pyramid selling. But he is a judge and quite capable of understanding and interpreting laws presented to him and making a judgment accordingly. And that was our responsibility. Each side presents the law, their facts, and what inference should been drawn from those facts. The judge studies the law presented to him and the arguments of both sides and renders his decision. The 18 page decision accessible on our website came after nearly six months of deliberation and reflects the fact the judge must have read and considered very carefully every piece of evidence and arguments by both parties. It is obvious by his noted concern of the public’s interest in this matter as well as the interests of the two parties that he did not rush to a hasty conclusion. Too bad the American court deciding the Amway case hadn’t done likewise in 1979.
You write … “It appears obvious that the laws should be strengthened here in Canada as these types of so called "investment operations" seem to be growing exponentially…”
But, have you actually read the whole of the 18 page decision on our website Bruce? You also maintain that “Until the government declares "T.T.I.Co." and other similar investment opportunities illegal….” Again, I think the problem Bruce is that perhaps you are simply oblivious to the fact the government has declared these pyramid schemes illegal and also that the laws you say should be written to outlaw the likes of TTI and BIM and the rest of these frauds, are in fact already written. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1966
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 12:57 pm: |
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Just as we have been exposing here for how many years now, in Canada the RCMP, OPP, agents in the CRA (Tax Dept.) other bureaucratic officials, politicians, other police officers, lawyers accountants, doctors, chiropractors etc. were in the WEW pyramid fraud, and in these subsequent pyramid frauds making 10’s of thousands. There were so many cops and so many of the hierarchy in my area involved in WEW, including lawyers, and don’t forget the clients of lawyers, it is no wonder the MP for our area and other MP’s refused to answer my emails, phone calls, meet with me or do anything about these frauds on their own. With many politicians in it how would I know if my Mp and his family were not? Many Provincial Mpp’s were. Nonetheless these were the police and the “high brows” involved in fraud and subsequent cover-up. We also have the name and solid proof of one prosecutor who is in one of the subsequent pyramid scams. Considering all this would you continue to believe the police would lead the “vanguard to stamp them out BEFORE they have had the opportunity to flourish?" particularly when the Crown Attorney will refuse to prosecute? The police are not going to want to investigate this mess? That has already been demonstrated by the investigation and subsequent cover-up by OPP Special Investigator Bill Sword.
And what about the crown and government? Their excuse is exemplified in the reply to lawyer Ed Tonello by the Crown Attorney “I am too busy with murders and home invasions to worry about white collar crime.” And again McLean’s Magazine investigation concluded… “The RCMP are turning their backs on serious crime, failing to snag drug traffickers and white collar criminals.
There exists a lot of power behind these corporate pyramid frauds and Ponzi schemes [Donald Trump? ACN]. Many, if not most have the money to employ lawyers and agents who were previously employed by the Competition Bureau, other government agencies, and the police. Robert Fitzpatrick reveals this in his books. This is the power to stave off prosecution. It’s not the law that is wanting; it is those charged with the enforcement of it. "The Emperor Has No Clothes"
In that sentence you also question the judge's decision ““If there is a court ruling stating that these organizations are violating the Competition Act, why are the police not leading the vanguard to stamp them out BEFORE they have had the opportunity to flourish?"”
The latter part of the question is answered above; the court ruling you question is on our website. The judge dismissed the argument of the emerald as irrelevant, specifically in the TTI – BIM vs. David John Thornton $10 mil lawsuit based upon my submissions. I was successful linking both to the WEW fraud. Just one of those submissions was the Calgary Global News TTI story which is actually copied into the judge’s decision in which Calgary RCMP, staff Sergeant Bill Ralston is quoted as saying… “it’s easy to spot a pyramid”... and goes on to describe pyramid fraud summing up by stating “…. Buying a product [and I would add a “PO. Certificate”] to get into this game doesn’t make it legal either.”… So, there must be some reason the law is not being enforced, and I believe that it’s obvious now my allegations and conclusions are valid. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1967
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 1:03 pm: |
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The Judge’s decision … “[12] Further, in his responding material, Thornton asserts that the definition of a pyramid scheme contained in section 55.1 of the Competition Act exactly describes the manner in which TTI and BIM alleged distribution business operates. Section 55.1 states as follows:..” and it is coped in his decision. The Judge at [13] wrote…. “In his argument Thornton explained to the court how the TTI and BIM participatory business adopt the exact model and mechanisms of other pyramidic sales schemes that have been investigated and shut down by police authorities. He compared a schematic diagram of the operative marketing scheme used by TTI and BIM to other pyramidic schemes that have been shut down. To all appearances, the schemes were substantially the same. Finally Thornton drew the court’s attention to s. 206 (1)(e) of the Criminal Code, which states as follows:….” And that as well is copied into the judgment.
In conclusion the Judge wrote at [41] “By corollary, it will be open to the plaintiffs to bring another injunction application before trial, but only in the event that they are prepared to adduce probative evidence at such time that would call into doubt the prima facie case of illegality that the respondent Thornton has successfully made out….” M.G.J. Quigley J. Nov 30, 2005.
Two things: First Unless and until Treasure Traders International and Business in Motion can produce satisfactory evidence countering my submissions that they are, in the ruling of Judge Quigley of the Ontario Superior Court, prima facie in violation of both the Competition Act and the C.C.C of Canada; according to the Judge they are! And that, they have not done; and I am confident, they will be unable to convince any court otherwise on the facts in my submissions.
Secondly, a Superior Court Judge has been satisfied that a prima facie case of a breach of both the Competition Act and the Criminal Code has been made out. A prima facie case is all that is required by a Justice of the Peace to “issue process” on a Criminal Code Violation. All the police need do, is their duty, and charge them.
And lastly you write… “You and I were never meant to agree on the principle of how we tackle these pyramid schemes because your style is confrontational and mine leans very much more to placing the responsibility for the success of these imaginary businesses squarely on the shoulders of the investor. Whether old, young, destitute or wealthy….” And for now maybe you feel that’s valid. But, I am, as you most surely know by now, Bruce, a persistent bugger.
dave
www.crimebustersnow.com contact gatoraid@sympatico.ca 905-963-3389 24/7 We return your calls in North America and 22 countries world-wide. |
fullofquestions
Intermediate Member
Username: fullofquestions
Post Number: 208
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 70.57.32.25
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 2:05 pm: |
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man that is a lot of information |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1969
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 5:43 pm: |
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Well, you are "fullofquestion" so there are lot of answers before you even have a chance to think up the questions. Would you like to lend a hand to the organization? We need a cartoonist if you know anyone. And if you're anywhere near Toronto we can always use picketers.
dave |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 295
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 2:07 am: |
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"Dave" - But after all that, I must have missed the headline that said "Treasure Traders International Company Shut Down as an Illegal Pyrmaid Operation!" I'll try and find time to check deeper into some of my old newspapers tomorrow.
This dead and buried organization is only relevant to me because they continue to spawn others and I am willing to bet that they will operate just as openly as "T.T.I.Co.". Your battle ground is so very different from mine. You are driven to protect the people, even if that means protecting them from themselves. My view bestows far greater responsibility on the individual investor. I am not prepared to paint these investors as the naive little orphan waifs that you want them to be. Most that I met in the meetings that I attended here were smart hard working folks that almost tripped over themselves to throw their money into the ring (cargo hold of the ship in the T.T.I.Co. example). They were not interested in my opinion nor did they seek it. They were too busy thinking of the nanes of the friends and loved ones that they were going to secretly and breathlessly introduce to this newest "get rich quick scheme". The people running to give these people their hard earned money, are the ones keeping it all going. Without them energetically handing over their cash, there would be no playing field for the companies and others of their ilk, to flourish and propagate. The investors hand over the cash for a variety of reasons to be sure but, greed ain't all that far from the top of the list.
The stories about the "law of the land" in far away countries holds zero relevance in Canada and repeating them is akin to telling the grandkids about the bear you killed with your pen knife when you were only twelve. Their eyes are already glassing over and you ain't even warmed up yet. Now, if those legal stories happened in the fine country in which we all live here, then we've got a party!
Yes, you are persistent and I seriously doubt anyone has trouble comprehending where you stand on various issues. But until you can find a way to move the illegality to the front of the problem rather than the far rear, ain't nutn' gonna change no how!
Bruce |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1970
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 8:00 pm: |
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Bruce If this was indeed a "fine country we live in” as you espouse, an obviously irritated Crown Attorney would not say "I'm too busy with murders and home invasions to worry about white-collar crime." It is a fine country for those of you who are, for now, insulated against the fall out of that white-collar crime in its many shapes and forms, or those who conform to, and cover up for white collar criminals in it.
In a related note in the Nation Post Sat. Jan. 20 headlines read Montreal Mob most powerful in the world. With the arrest finally, of some 70 mobsters in Montreal it is believed Toronto is now the centre of the mafia. Do you deny this too Bruce, and if not, what do think they are doing, and to whom are they doing it; and since anyone will concede they have power to influence politicians and police world over, the logical question is who are the police and politicians and corporations they are, in common sense corrupting and influencing? I would say check out the new Commissioner of the OPP. The former commissioner of the OPP should also be checked out for the covering up of the number of officers, their families, politicians, corrupt lawyers, accountants and others that conspired to, and did in fact defraud thousands of women in the Women Empowering Women pyramid fraud.
And these comments by the Toronto C.A. and the above article confirm my allegations that there is white-collar crime and that crime is obviously a violation of written, enforceable law. That’s why it is called crime Bruce! The problem, as I continually maintain is that the authorities refuse, for whatever reason (I say it’s because, and (I can prove) authorities are themselves engaged in the white-collar crime and also being influenced by powerful lobbyist) and therefore refuse to carry out their sworn duty and enforce those laws.
With Canada being considered now as the home of the "Most powerful Mafia Mob in the entire world" I have to disagree; this is not quite as "fine a country we live in” as you espouse Bruce,
So, we have this ridiculous vicious circular argument…. Now, the law is written. It's tangible. I presented it to the court. The judge read the actual laws and rendered his decision. They are enforceable. But they are not enforced. So, you conclude and maintain, as I understand you, that as long as there is no enforcement and no convictions, therefore there is no law, and therefore TTI in this country must be "perfectly legal.”
Sorry Bruce, that is an illogical argument based upon self serving facts and sounds like the "smoke and mirrors” one is likely to hear at a TTI BIM motivational meeting. By that criteria all the open drug dealing by each individual on the streets of Vancouver and elsewhere is “perfectly legal" unless and until each and every one of them is convicted. So, are we to believe you personally cannot distinguish crime from what is legal until you see a conviction for each and every one doing the same thing? Again I get more sense from a 14 year old. Ask them: Is drug dealing illegal? A. Yes. Is robbing a bank illegal? A. Yes. Is stealing someone’s identity and credit card illegal? A. Yes. Would you tell them; no! simply because an individual involved in it hasn’t yet been convicted?
TTI, BIM, Canadian Diamond Traders, The Sum-It Club are illegal pyramid frauds. It is as illegal in this country to recruit others into a pyramid fraud as it is to rob a bank whether the bank is robbed by guns or by paper fraud, as was explained last night by the FBI on CNN. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1971
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 8:06 pm: |
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I could beat you hands down with my evidence in a in a court of law as I have already done with TTI and BIM: a court where a judge decides, not Bruce Audley. You have accused me in the past of being judge and jury. That no police or judge had determined TTI as illegal. I was told that over and over again on this board by TTI supporters and yourself: Never mind all of the same and similar schemes that have, like drug dealing, been prosecuted and convicted. And now a top level RCMP officer from Alberta, your home province, with respect to TTI states, “Buying a product to get into the scheme does not make a pyramid scheme legal.” Those are his words Bruce, not mine, though they certainly are the same words I have used since day one and it certainly confirms my position. But, according to Bruce Audley, the way I see you presenting the case of legality for TTI, this officer must be wrong.
Bruce says it’s the emerald that keeps this pyramid scheme just inside the law and “perfectly legal.” Again, who or what was the authority that somehow changed your mind from your original and very strong position, that TTI was illegal? That is of great interest to me and others. What can we say on this board other than Bruce Audley believes he knows more about pyramid fraud than a seasoned RCMP investigator who agrees with both my position and the High Court of England. And now I have a Judge of the Superior Court who has ruled that TTI and BIM are prima facie illegal pyramid frauds. The case is made out unless TTI can offer other evidence since their lowly emerald that Bruce Audley says makes it all legal, and their stated recruitment practice didn’t “cut it” with the judge. So, I now have a decision from a Judge of the Ontario Superior Court, but that's irrelevant because, again on the basis of no facts, Bruce Audley knows more than both the RCMP and now a Superior Court Judge.
Are you suggesting for example Bruce, that the “Little Green Petrol Pill” (dyed green mothballs) just shut down by the Texas A.G. as a pyramid fraud using exactly the same recruiting pyramid board as TTI and this “pill” currently being sold by RCMP office Harold Stewart’s father in Ontario is “perfectly legal” because there is no law? Or in the alternative in Canada it's legal to sell this "pill" simply because the law is not enforced here, as the obviously annoyed Crown Attorney was quoted in the Star.
Let’s take a chapter from the Bible. [Paraphrased] “And God told Adam and Eve you may eat of the fruit of every tree but not this one, or you shall surly die”
Now suppose the garden was full of many good trees bearing all manner of fruit (good and legal companies to invest in) but in the garden was one tree, close by, easy to access, little effort [low investment] with the largest and best tasting fruit but Adam and Eve were not informed this tree was forbidden and so they indulge in it. Then the Lord came and said “you were not supposed to eat the fruit of that tree now you will surly die.” Would Adam and Eve not have a good case and the right to protest? “You put that tree camouflaged among all the others with the biggest and best fruit and the easiest access. How were we to know it was forbidden? We thought it was the best of you creations, how would we know we were not supposed to eat it?” Would you, Bruce as God say “too bad you should have known better? |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1972
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 8:10 pm: |
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This is what I am talking about Bruce. Not the disgusting people, you mention, that know better, like the ones that invited me to the TTI meeting who were in other pyramids specifically WEW that had just collapsed and was prosecuted. They knew exactly what they were doing. When I said it would eventually collapse taking thousands of people they protested, “What do you care what happens years down the road to people you don’t even know.” These are the people we are after; the ones that know. But what about university, college, high school kids, yes and the financially unsophisticated brought to a meeting to be told by a corrupted jewelry appraiser, corrupted police, prosecutors, lawyers, tax dept. agents, church ministers, members of the BBB, chamber of commerce and other knowledgeable and respected people that this is a “perfectly legal” way of investing, and actively participating in the jewelry business? Perceived respectable citizens but really despicable scammers in, for example the Kinsmen Club, firefighters, churches, and other organizations, like the university actually using the facilities of the universities, churches, fire fighter’s halls to spread these frauds.
This is not only immoral it is against the written laws of Canada that are simply not enforced. They are not as you claim Bruce, “perfectly legal” because they have an emerald, a “Little Green Petrol Pill”, a diamond, tickets, a club membership, or even 24 karat gold bars. I have that on very good authority and the history of previously prosecuted cases.
You haven’t told me if you have read the 18 page decision of the Ontario Superior Judge, or do you honestly feel now, that your opinion, shared of course by the fraudsters running these scams, who are naturally in a position of bias and therefore expected, is the only opinion that is legally valid even though it is contrary to the statements of the RCMP officer and the written decisions of a litany of Judges?
dave |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 1973
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.38.117.34
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 8:31 pm: |
|
www.crimebustersnow.com contact gatoraid@sympatico.ca 905-963-3389 24/7 We return your calls in North America and 22 countries world-wide. |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 296
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 11:46 pm: |
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"Dave" - But anyone reading the above diatribe will see that the "smoke and mirrors" is in YOUR position and not mine. The repetitive stories about the "doom and gloom" of our troubled society shows only that you have little or no respect for either Canadian law or, those that work hard to protect it! There will always be peripheral stories about bad guys and they exist in every society. I am left wondering however; how does this have anything at all to do with "T.T.I.Co." NOT being shut down for being illegal?
Court rulings after the fact are merely fireside stories. If the law was broken, why was it never enforced? And please spare us all the notion that it was only because every policeman and all of the judges are on "the take". Facts are facts. "T.T.I.Co." was not found to be illegal during its operation and because of that, whether you and I like it or not, others are free to flourish within Canada's borders in their absence.
Bruce |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 5:44 am: |
|
Bruce, this is ridiculous and very misleading. "If the law was broken, why was it never enforced?"
You seem to be under a delusion, or deliberately trying to mislead common folk, that if laws are broken they would be enforced. How many drug dealers openly sell and use drugs well known and observed by the police on the streets of Vancouver for example, and the laws are not enforced.
The crown attorney in York region is now on record whining "I'm too busy with home invasions and murders to worry about white-collar crime."
So, it would certainly appear my allegations of non enforcement of the laws I have been complaining about, have now been solidly confirmed."
Do you "get it yet" Bruce. Because a law exists is no assurance it will be enforced." And conversely, because a law is not enforced does not mean it doesn't exist and those breaking it are doing something "perfectly legal."
The excuse, the Sum-It Club uses.... "We have been operating in the open for six years. If we were illegal the authorities would have closed us down by now" does not hold up under the light of truth.
Laws are made for protection of the public. It follows that despite the millions that it costs to write these laws if they are not enforced the public will endure the very horrors the laws were written to prevent.
Call that "diatribe" or anything else. That is a simple truth as compared to the confusing, contradictory nonsense you wrote above.
TTI's illegality was never enforced that is why it operated. Last week I received a phone call from a lady in Oshawa. Kippax is still at it personally hosting recruitment meetings. Her cousin is getting his whole family into BIM and asked her to join. Unsure she found our web site.
dave |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 302
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 6:34 pm: |
|
Point is what? |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2065
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:52 am: |
|
"If the law was broken, why was it never enforced?"
The law was broken. The answer to "why was it never enforced" is what over two years of posting is all about." that's the point!
dave |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2068
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:24 am: |
|
April 16 2007
LACK OF ENFORCEMENT AND CORRUPTION
Ironically right on point and fresh off the press today is an article that follows below these comments.
For years my writings have been about the corruption of politicians and the top brass of the police from the RCMP, OPP down. And now it comes out; First the Gomery Inquiry and connections to organized crime and $300,000 from the sponsorship scandal misappropriated to the RCMP. Then witness the Commissioner of the RCMP resigning over his less than truthful evidence followed by fraud and financial abuse and corruption charges.
Yes Bruce. "There will always be peripheral stories about bad guys and they exist in every society." And I agree, but there is nothing peripheral in what I have been writing about for years; the wide scale corruption, cover-up and abuse of law and power in the hierarchy of the RCMP, OPP, government etc.
Back, way back before unknown persons in the Attorney General's department convinced you that TTI was "perfectly legal" because it had a green, nearly worthless gemstone; back before you were convinced TTI was illegal, back before an anonymous poster "7000" took a poll on my sanity, back before the allegations that I raped and assaulted my wife, back before two young women apologized for calling me a rapist, goaded by many others, particularly two sick excuses for humanity one identified as "The Truth" and the other., (lol) "Voice of Reason" back when I told a simple story;….that top brass of the RCMP, OPP, chief’s wives, politicians, mayor’ wives, corrupt lawyers, accountants, real estate agents, insurance agents, teachers, and a hierarchy of the school board were involved in the largest, if not one of the largest frauds in the entire world; “Women Empowering Women” that they brought to my small town and my attempts to expose them meeting with stonewalling, intimidation, assault, trumped up charges, character assassination etc. Then exactly the same pyramid scheme with a near worthless fraudulent gemstone attached, and the whole thing registered under a “shell corporation” set up for the sole purpose of attempting to mask an indictable fraudulent pyramid scheme was recycled again with RCMP, OPP, etc, spreading it throughout the world as well as Business in Motion, Canadian Diamond Traders, Departure Central and locally in Woodbridge; the Sum-it Club with police officers, lawyers even a provincial prosecutor, herself also a teacher of law at Humber College and her son scamming students..
This covered-up by police at all levels, “stonewalling, lying, intimidating, insulting and assaulting victims.
Court setbacks add to Ontario commission’s woes
By David Clarke
April 16, 2007
OTTAWA — The Ontario Securities Commission is playing catch-up after a slew of embarrassing court decisions that have led to a spate of negative editorials and op-ed articles.
Typical of the press reaction were the comments of Al Rosen, a forensic accountant with Toronto-based independent equity research firm Accountability Research Corp. “It’s clear that the OSC simply isn’t doing its job,” he wrote in the Toronto-based Financial Post on March 15. “Many high-profile investigations are almost a decade old. Some have been a complete flop, and others, it seems, never got off the ground. The glacial speed of procedure at the OSC is downright pathetic.”
Among the flops were two prosecution setbacks in one day. On Feb. 27, the Ontario Court of Appeals declined to grant the Toronto-based OSC’s request to appeal a court decision that overturned an insider-tipping conviction of Andrew Rankin, formerly an investment banker with RBC Capital Markets, a subsidiary of the Royal Bank of Canada in Toronto. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2069
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:48 am: |
|
Later the same day, the OSC asked the court to dismiss the charges against Patrick Gouveia, former chief executive of Atlas Cold Storage Holdings Inc., the operating subsidiary of Toronto-based Atlas Cold Storage Income Trust, who was charged in 2004 with directing his staff to inflate profits. Four weeks into the trial, the OSC said that it had determined that there was “not a reasonable prospect of conviction” and stated: “All charges should be dismissed.”
Perhaps leery of more embarrassment, on April 5, the OSC announced that it had moved back to Nov. 12, from June, a hearing in its case against Conrad Black and three former Hollinger International Inc. executives.
The civil suit launched by the OSC claims that Lord Black, his former business associate David Radler, and former Hollinger directors Jack Boultbee and Peter Atkinson broke securities laws in Ontario by making misleading statements in regulatory filings. It also names Toronto-based holding company Hollinger Inc. The defendants’ lawyers argued that the allegations are similar to criminal charges filed by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Enforcement concerns
“We are the magnet for attention when other parts of the enforcement apparatus may not be functioning at a top level, but we get the arrows, and we get the headlines,” OSC Chairman David Wilson told the Globe and Mail of Toronto last Monday. “We’re a public institution … and public entities are fair game for a public discussion of their successes and their perceived failures.”
Mr. Wilson “is the single most powerful man in Canada in terms of influencing which white-collar securities crime cases get investigated and prosecuted in Canada by any of the provincial securities commissions and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,” independent consulting analyst Diane Urquhart wrote in an April 1 e-mail to clients which she forwarded to InvestmentNews.
The RCMP set up a special Integrated Markets Enforcement Teams branch in 2003 to focus on securities crimes. But IMET hasn’t laid charges in any of the high-profile criminal investigations it has launched.
Now the Mounties themselves are under suspicion. Last month, current and former RCMP officers alleged that the organization has committed fraud and abuse in managing its pension and insurance plans. Former RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli called the allegations “baseless.” Still, 42% of those responding to a poll released last Tuesday by Vancouver, British Columbia-based Angus Reid Strategies said that their confidence in the internal operations and leadership of the RCMP had decreased over the previous two years, while only 3% said that it had increased.
“David Wilson is working in the backrooms, purporting to fix the securities crime enforcement system and making specific decisions on ongoing securities crime cases, without any accountability to the Canadian public,” wrote Ms. Urquhart, who is based in Mississauga, Ontario. “The securities enforcement solutions need new political forces and new independent, high-integrity decision makers setting the courses of action for cleaning up the RCMP, creating a new, non-corrupt single securities regulator completely separate from the RCMP and eliminating the reliance of the Canadian governments on the self-regulators in the investment industry for protection of investors.”
By press time, officials at the OSC had not returned calls seeking comment.
dave
www.crimebustersnow.com 905-963-3389 24/7 --- We return calls toll free in North America and 22 countries. If anyone has been burned on this or any other similar scam contact us. We will sue 4 u. and at a very modest fee. For a limited time (while the funds hold out) "0" fees unless we win. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2070
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 6:57 pm: |
|
To quote:"Now the Mounties themselves are under suspicion. Last month, current and former RCMP officers alleged that the organization has committed fraud and abuse in managing its pension and insurance plans."
By the exact same token they have also committed fraud and abuse in their involvement in several pyramid fraud schemes going back at least to 1998 with the Women Empowering Women pyramid fraud. And now including, TTI and BIM (declared prima facia in violation of both the Federal Competition Act, and the Criminal Code of Canada); and Dave Stewart's new "shell company." (Dave Stewart; RCMP Officer Harold Stewart's Father).
This involvement and subsequent coverup with only "patsies" singled out for prosecution in WEW explains why there was no enforcement of the law against the real ringleaders of Women Empowering Women, and absolutely no enforcement or charges laid against anyone in TTI, BIM, Canadian Diamond Traders, Departure Central, the Sum-It Club, and Dave Stewart's "shell company) and others.
dave President CBN |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2071
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 8:18 pm: |
|
Do you not think it's about time Bruce, that you simply admit that this beautiful nearly "crime free" country you observe through "rose coloured glasses" with only a few "peripheral...bad guys" is not quite what you believed and attempted to assure others it was? Our institutions by in large doing an excellent job, beyond reproach, every police officer nearly perfect; certainly not committing any criminal offenses; our prosecuting attorneys, never using trumped up evidence or doing anything underhanded, unethical or illegal the Competition Bureau and Securities Commission all doing a fine job and the attorneys general absolutely above reproach, in near perfection, administering the law, keeping us safe and secure.... is really not true, as you would have, not only our entire country believe, but the U.S. and every other country in the world as well?
Dave - CBN |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 303
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 11:20 pm: |
|
While it hardly needs saying by any reasonable law abiding Canadian - NO! The "bad guys" come in all forms, shapes and colours. Clipping and pasting solitary examples while they may involve dozens, or maybe even hundreds of terrible criminals disguised as good citizens, doesn't mean that everyone else in the universe is now painted with the same ugly brush. I didn't buy it years ago when you started selling it and frankly, your hunger for self gratification, only makes your case weaker. Tell the world of your success in healing the world's still ugly scars. It is important for you and we could all use a happy thought in this day and age. Maybe out there somewhere, ANYWHERE, there exists someone that views your postings as happy!
Bruce |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2072
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 3:34 am: |
|
Again where, or where, did I say "that everyone else in the universe is now painted with the same ugly brush." This is a product of your questionable mind Bruce. I simply pointed out where corruption exists and some of the specific people involved. However, in an attempt to prove your ridiculous point you resort to the same rantings of the criminals in their attacks when they say to me "to you EVERY cop, EVERY judge, EVERY politician, EVERY lawyer, EVERY person working in EVERY government agency, EVERY MLM and Net Work Marketing business, EVERY business EVERY charity, EVERY non profit organization (exept yours of course)... everyone is corupt."
And now Bruce, you take your silliness to even greater heights in your continuing dogma and extend your false allegations to every known and yet undiscoverewd individual in the entire universe. That is ridiculous, silly, bizarre, and frankly childish.
You can't deal with the specific issues of crime and corruption I have raised, even when decent members of your revered institutions like the RCMP slowly come out of the woodwork and make public the corruption, the threats, the coverup, by the highest authorities and the retaliation, against "whistleblowers" within the highest police force in the nation.
You,re still acting like a nasty child, or worse, with your fingers in your ears, your mind clamped shut against he truth, yelling "na-na-na-na na" you think everybody in the universe is corrupt why should anybody listen to anything you say?
Again, use some degree of common sense Bruce. If that was even remotely my position, that everyone in the universe is a criminal why would I help anyone, or feel sorry for the grandmother who thought she could give the family and their grandchildren good jobs selling gemstones, and instead was ripped off for $30,000.00 and going to the food bank, and all the rest of the horrible stories I deal with on a daily basis especially those from the deaf community all over the world.
What I have found in this country is that if one attempts to help victims of crime, or civil law manipulation, you will be relentlessly "smashed down" especially by successful, perceived pillers of the community; business people like yourself. I find there are far more like you willing to put down victims and "whistleblowers" then the extremely few in business willing to help victims.
No Bruce it's you that I believe has a serious problem, you have stated many times, you have no compassion for these people, no sympathy; they should all be smart like you and know how not to be victimized. What I get from you is, too bad your life and your family is destroyed that's squarely on your shoulders, that's the price you pay for being stupid. You deserve it.
It's a shame that being an intelligent, shrewd, successful and rich businessman psychologically distorts a mind like yours in what I see is an extreme right wing, bordering on fascist thinking. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 3:42 am: |
|
Worse, as I see it, this demonstrates what happened in WW2 when in countries like Austria and the Ukraine many plugged their ears and turned their backs on the vile corruption of Hitler and that regime and went along with him without question or the slightest condemnation and persecuted, tortured, and murder anyone who tried to point out the corruption, or dared criticize or voice in opinion in the slightest way against "the establishment" or anything that vicious dictator was perpetrating.
First, harassing and assaulting the Jews, marking them to be singled out for widespread ridicule, then illegally seizing their businesses, than their homes, and finally simply shooting and gassing them. "Those who don't learn the lessons of history will surely repeat them." [not my words]
And as your hypocritical, silly ranting demonstrates as you write "even hundreds of terrible criminals disguised as good citizens, doesn't mean that everyone else in the universe is now painted with the same ugly brush." exactly! But, again you make this quantum leap to "everyone in the universe, as though this is something I've said. I'm mearly trying to deal specifically with those hundreds and thousands of criminals disguised as good citizens, which incidentally you seem to now unequivocally recognize and validate; not, as in your ridiculously implied nonsense.... "that those thousands or more criminals disguised as good citizens" means that everyone in the universe is a criminal or corrupt. If that was my position, you well educated but illogical, say-anything-exaggerated anything-twist anything-or use your perceived credibility; anything-but-truth-in attempt-to-destroy-your-opponent... type of person, then why would I be attempting to help anyone??? Your arguments and postings are simply devoid of logic.
dave |
pickled_sausage
Intermediate Member
Username: pickled_sausage
Post Number: 122
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 67.70.44.211
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 7:21 am: |
|
Well, I think you at least summarized my position succintly on Wednesday evening Dave which is that there are bad apples in all walks of life, including the positions of trust and influence you reference. But, by and large, these roles are filled by good, decent, hard-working, honest people and on balance, this is a great country in which to live. This is affirmed year after year by independent, unbiased, international bodies. Thanks for netting it out Dave. |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 304
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 10:32 am: |
|
While I never professed to speak for the universe, I can say categorically that in my small world, given the opportunity to have the status quo with all of its benefits and warts (yes there are warts Dave), I'll take that any day over "David Thornton's Law of the Land"!
Your suggestion that the postings on this site over the past few years mirror the world's "blind eye" to Hitler and WWII, simply do not warrant any further comment from me. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2074
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 5:56 pm: |
|
Your in a great position Bruce. In your small world of the "rich, famous and well connected" you have not been a victim yet of those hundreds of criminals in government and police positions it seems. And with your "high and mighty attitude" your position seems to be because, in your opinion, the law seems to work most of the time, then the victims of criminals and criminal corruption should shut their mouths and not try to obtain justice and simply except what happened to them as merely a flaw in our system.
Again, it was that preferred group in Germany; the selected German business people that enjoyed your benefits, and took over the Jewish businesses from persecuted victims. And it's obvious the attitude was the same, the system worked for some in the right positions, so the hell with the victims. They should shut up and and except their lot in life. That's basically been your attitude ever since those right wing, wing nuts, in the attorney general's office convinced you the little green junk emerald suddenly makes an illegal pyramid fraud "perfectly legal." and now you're "brainwashed" you can't get past that green emerald.
And never mind you're posting on a forum that again, I feel I have to remind you says, "TELL US YOUR STORY" presumably so it will help others.
So, it appears you're here to attact the story, try to discredit anybody's personal encounter with those corrupt people you do admit exist, in what you now admit is an imperfect system.
And telling the same thing to one of those wealthy business men in Germany doing well under Hitler and actually benefiting by taking over some of the Jewish businesses from those who went to the gas chambers I'm sure would have echoed your same sentiments; as in Your worrying and telling me about jews going to the the gas chambers warrant no further comment from me, as they close the door, their mind, and turn their backs on the victims still insisting they have a good system that works, at least for them.
And in yesterday's Globe & Mail MOUNTIE SAYS HE HAS EVIDENCE OF COVER-UP
Now, if any of that is true, then my simple story of cover-up with the high brass of the RCMP, Provincial Police, their wives, mayor's wives, politicians and their wives, government employees and their wives, corrupt lawyers, accountants, fire fighters, Kinsmen Members, school board officials, doctors, nurses, chiropractors, BBB & Chamber of Commerce Members, Bank managers,and bank employees, etc, etc, etc, involved in a massive pyramid fraud called "Women Empowering Women" certainly by this point in time, enlists some credibility. The fact and the proof of the Mayor's wife been convicted and apparently cops wives in York region charged and it appears convicted, at least one accountant convicted, the director of the London school board; his wife and school principal daughter successfully sued, and the list continues, makes my simple story quite believable. In fact what were the positions of what you referred to as greedy people in the meetings you went to, and what was the position in the communities of the person who invited you. |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 6:32 pm: |
|
Last week I received a call from Oshawa. Kippax is still at it. Suspicious this person Google searched BIM and right there is CrimeBustersNow's phone number. So I was able to set him straight.
I just received a call from Cambridge as I'm writing this. The caller says he's had "the non-pleasure of meeting Mr. Kippax. Some of his family got involved and he would like to share some info. This crook Kippax is doing the rounds again for the 3rd or 4th time. He sure must be doing something the cops like, since the Waterloo Regional Police harass, threaten and assault the "whistle blower" that tries to expose him and the Crown Attorney in Kitchener calls the cops when I try to report the crime at his office. That day this huge thug, cop, his name is Portuluk, not to be confused with his cousin Paul (one of the most decent cops I've ever met) slugs me with both hands to the shoulders backward into the wall of the elevator threatening me all the way to the ground floor. A cop even pulled his gun and pointed it in the face of the "whistle blower." I was pulled over on the highway near Wriggley's Corners just outside Cambridge. The police did nothing when I was punched and pushed into traffic and damn near run down in front of Kippax's and Dave Stewart's meeting in Hamilton at the Pine Tree Restaurant. Been a rocky ride. The message always the same "shut up and back off." Talk about police protecting organized crime. And creeping fascism.
Kippax picks up about $3,600 from each person he scams. He has anywhere from 10 to 250 people at a meeting. I've been to some of these meetings. Even 10 victims is $36,000 "in the pocket." He claims to be a Jehova Witness and many times stated he never files an income tax return because he dosen't believe in income tax. The tax department has this information but at the meeting I attended an agent from the Income Tax Department (CRA) was introduced as a "captain" in TTI and had made a great deal money off the "perfectly legal" scam. But then according to credible evidence I have collected is that tax officials were in the "WEW" pyramid telling victims it was legal because, among other nonsense it was unnecessary to pay tax on $5000 gifts (it was B.S.). This was coming from the highest offices in the country, just like the B.S. "that the emerald makes TTI perfectly legal" you received, apparently from your friends at the attorney general's office. This is only some of the police and government corruption that keeps these frauds going.
I wonder if Kippax still has the London Judge on the "pay out" list. Can you imagine the credibility a judge would have and how fast and furious he could sign up victims. And who, once they're scammed is going to "blow the whistle" on a judge???!!! eh!!!
dave
Personally I believe there is more than an "acceptable amount of corruption in the police and government in the "world according to Bruce Audley." |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2076
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 7:58 pm: |
|
Incidently, this comment.... "given the opportunity to have the status quo with all of its benefits and warts (yes there are warts Dave), I'll take that any day over "David Thornton's Law of the Land"!
"David Thornton's law of the land" is to attempt to clean up the corruption, eliminate the white- collar crime and do what I can to help release the stranglehold of the Mafia who have now, under the reign of the former chief of police Julian Fantino, seized Toronto as the center of their organization in North America. Woodbridge and York regions are full of them with their money laundering "shell orporations"; "cold oven" pizza parlors, cappuccino shops, restaurants; repair shops; and just about any business you can imagine.
And then carefully try to eliminate, if not seriously reduce and control certainly those warts you mentioned.
Not like Bruce Audley's world of "accepting warts" and crime allowing them grow exponentially as you all the while, keep pointing out "its still better than that."
It would be nice if you could "get off the back" of the person trying to make things better than just sitting around and letting it get worse and sucking up to those dumb a$$ authorities at the attorney general's office that appear to be trying to sneak illegal pyramid frauds in the "back door" by disseminating B.S. just like authorities working with corrupt corporations did in Albania. And again, if you don't learn the lessons of history; and that is a very recent one Albania (1996-98) "you WILL repeat it." The World Bank in 1998 tried to get that message across to all the countries in the world, but it certainly appears there are more Bruce Audleys willing to embrace crime, with their "heads in the sand" (just like Albania) then there are David Thorntons who read very carefully and absorb the lessons of history, the root causes, and try to figure out what could have been done to avoid it, and then try to implement it.
But, alas I fear that the Bruce Audleys, so enamored with these wealthy white collar criminals, and pyramid scammers, the likes of the criminal Alan Kippax, of TTI, the crook Jay Waterman of Canadian Diamond Traders, and of course Donald Trump the "Pied Piper of Corporate Corruption" endorsing the obvious pyramid fraud, ACN, and the rest of these unscrupulous and unconscionable scammers that you Bruce, seems to think have little effect on this "still great country of ours" until, like pollution when "head-in-the-sand people" finally recognize the enormity of the problem, it's too late to do anything about it.
dave |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 306
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 10:38 pm: |
|
Say what? |
gatordave
Senior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 2077
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 6:53 am: |
|
When one runs out of logical arguments it's time to play the "Say What" "duuu-I-don't-know-what-your-talking-about-card" from the bag of "how-can-I-win-a-debate-using-who-I-am-without-discussing-the-issues bag of debating tricks and who-cares-what-social damage-non-resolution-of-the-issues-causes-as-long-as-I-can-ridicule-my-opponent-and-sway-the-audience-to-laughter-and-scorn philosophy of winning a debate.
That's what was done to Alexander Graham Bell by a couple of asinine vicious "Right Wing" "respected" narrow-minded businessmen who were, in reality, jerks, causing a huge delay in the implementation of the telephone and intense problems in the patent rights. Just a couple of sentences of ridicule from a couple of wealthy businessmen, directed at a genius inventor living in abject poverty; his only credibility the "invention of the century" he mistakenly revealed to these narrow minded, big mouth, ignorant, arrogant bastards hoping to get their support who instead caused all those problems. It's quite a story. You should read it Bruce. You and you friends in government might very well see youselves reflected in the mirror of truth there.
For the audience: highly educated wealthy people, with a gift to sway other people's thinking and opinions, who use that gift to harass and ridicule in an effort to distract attention from serious issues that can affect your daily lives and the welfare of your country and even the world, are of little value to a community.
Now, ask yourself if Bruce Audley and those in his obvious Right Wing "Camp" who appear to believe in unbridled "business" and subscribe to the "blame-the-victim,"-and-allow-the-scammer-to-freely-operate" philosophy using any piece of junk, masking fraud on the right track.... or, are the Chinese onto something as well as this Toronto lawyer with a Ph.D. who publishes these stories and warning as a public service, (as I, and those in CBN are attempting to do) adding his editorial comments, who also incidently publishes and offers his editorial comments on the CrimeBustersNow activities as found on these links.
http://bizop.ca/blog2/recovery_of_losses/
http://bizop.ca/blog2/complaints_and_investigations/treasure_traders/
dave
www.crimebustersnow.com 905-963-3389 24/7 --- We return calls toll free in North America and 22 countries. If anyone has been burned on this or any other similar scam contact us. We will sue 4 u. and at a very modest fee. For a limited time (while the funds hold out) "0" fees unless we win.
(Message edited by gatordave on April 21, 2007) |
bruce_audley
Intermediate Member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 307
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 11:31 am: |
|
Slight correction ol' buddy, not that you understand correction all that well! In your case the rule would say, "when one stops LISTENING to logical arguments". In case you are not aware, I gave up actually dialoguing with you a long time ago. Dave's world as bizarre and twisted as it is remains after all, "DAVE'S WORLD"!
Somethin' else Mr. Thornton. Of the almost 310,000,000 folks on the North American continent, it is not surprising that you needed to go to further corners of the world to pick up a couple more fine folks that are interested in "Dave's Law". You see, the simple reality is that most people do not desire nor do they require Mr. David Thornton to protect them from their own free ability to invest their money the way they see fit. Yes that means accepting the gains and losses of the free market. The way it plays now, if they lose they come to Dave and if they gain, well I frankly don't know where they turn.
We agree that if it is illegal, it should be shut down. But in the absence of a quick response (or perhaps no response) from law makers, when does the individual begin to take responsibility for their own financial decisions? It is an important question because you would have them run it through some kind of "Dave Thornton" screening process and I prefer to give them all of the information available and stand back and let em' go!
There can be no conclusion to this point because you see that position as some kind of dangerous and precarious social back-slide and I see it as the individual's responsibility to live their life in freedom. It would be a sad world were it you making and enforcing the laws but unless I just arrived in bizarro world, that ain't the case and we can all breath a little easier for awhile until the day that you become not only the judge and jury BUT, the executioner!
So again, as you are not able to succinctly argue your position, you are free to call me Hitler and talk about the escalation of WWII and heck, I'll even throw in my responsibility for the biblical scourge of famine and pestilence. Yes, I know it's stupid but then I only threw in the last one. The others were graciously and idiotically provided by yourself. |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 1:54 am: |
|
http://www.worldwidewarning.net/www/ |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 4:41 pm: |
|
And now, accordng to reports on the RCMP hearings into corruption we see a 27 - 29 year whatever, veteran of the force, breaking down in tears because he tried to stop the practice of accepting articles of value and things he saw as corruption and dishonorable conduct in the police force he respected. Then, as he alleges, he was targeted and dismissed from his position and harassed in the force for attempting to be ethical. There were also allegations that documents were removed from files to cover up.
What do you say Bruce .... Is he just a big baby a whimp who should "grow up" and have simply gone along with corrupt system within the force and simply covered up with the "Bruce Audley Law"??? A law that certainly seems to be "shut up" about the individual injustices and corruption, turn your back on crime, and keep repeating ...."that there are bad apples in all walks of life, including the positions of trust and influence you reference. But, by and large, these roles are filled by good, decent, hard-working, honest people and on balance, this is a great country in which to live."
That's you whole philosophy, that because you perceive everything is going resonaby well in this country except for few bad apples, we should shut up about those few bad apples and do nothing about it. Or find a near worthless emerald and have Bruce Audley rewrite the laws with his own mouth, to a new "According to Bruce Audley"... law 101 "A near worthless emerald makes racketeering and money-laundering through a "shell" corporation "perfectly legal"... of course that notwithstanding the provisions of section 206 (1)(e) of the Criminal Code and Canada. duly ignored in favor of - the Big Mouth "BRUCE AUDLEY LAW" 101.
You see "ol buddy," from bye gone days, it's not me trying to make laws to ram down other people's throats; that you. I except laws being, for the most part, good laws. I take them as they were written and intended to be enforced and then push for that enforcement. It's you who twists, bends and wants to ignore them.
I have a Superior Court Judge that just happens to agree with my presentation of the law as it exists, as it is in fact written, along with other cases from the Criminal Court of Appeal he mentioned, backng up my presentation of the law, again, as it exists, not as Bruce Audley would like it to be, and incorrectly and continully excerts it is.
Do you Bruce, have a judge backing up your bizarre law twisting B.S. who has said on record ... "An emerald makes a pyramid fraud "perfectly legal." I think not. No, that's the law according to the "Great Bruce Audley." and backing that B.S. all you've got are some of your neo-fascist legal buddies working for an Attorney General who are either absolutely stupid, or absolutely corrupt, twisting their own cases, siding with criminals again, just like fascist Germany.
Now the last time I appeared in court in this country, in the game of "law and justice,; a Superior Court Judge, or any Judge for that matter, trumped a full house of stupid or corrupt word twisting, law twisting lawyers, again not unlike fascist Germany where corrupt vial police, The S.S., fascist lawyers, and a dictator ruled the courts and the judges, many of them also corrupted and obviously the rest "reluctantly towing the line" making it then possible to ignore and circumvent laws, just like your friends do, and you so eloquently condone. |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 4:54 pm: |
|
And that my "former ol' buddy" is creeping fascism. And that again is at what happened in fascist Germany. Some tried to stay moral and stick with the law, were persecuted and killed and the majority, not unlike yourself, opted for the "New Order" eventually leading to the horrible destruction of an entire nation.
And as that elderly woman, a holocaust survivor with the green numbered tatoo from the death camp whispered to me after one of my public speeches which she listened to from beginning to end, "you're right my son, you're right, but they won't listen, they won't listen untl it's too late."
She didn't say I was exaggerating, or that what I was passionately espousing had no meaning. No, it was a pastor of the Trinity United Church, a biggot, and narrow-minded jerk, former padre for the RCMP who listened to perhaps two sentences fom across the roaod then preached a sermon about this evil person at Speakers' Corner". It turns out he was ironically from your part of the country; his name, Reverend Frank Morgan who in his preaching, displayed many of your characteristics. A minister that more than once had elders and half the congregation actually walk out on his narrow-minded politicized fascist church services. Some even stood up and told him off during his Sunday Sermons.
But, he had the backing of enough dirty politicians, the Chamber of Commerce, our fascist newspaper the Kitchener-Waterloo Record that, more than once, was "caught out" suppressing serious news, and an editor B. Schmidt admitting under pressure of an investigation, to unethical condct in that he compiled "letters to the editor" publishing them anonymously as "the public's view" in the "letters to the editor" section in response to the overwhelming majority of the public who were writing in, opposing the issue the paper and their friends in the Chamber of Commerce wanted to force upon the communiy.
That too is creeping fascism. But there are those of us who try to keep it in check against wealthy misguided right wing Chamber of Commerce members such as yourself.
Now Bruce, do you really think after her personal experiences with years of fascism that this elderly Jewish lady didn't know what she was talking about? |
bruce_audley
New member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:38 pm: |
|
"Dave" - Unlike you, I could not possibly comment on the lucidity of a person that I have never met. I will however for the record, state that I am willing to bet that she is a wonderful person. As for all of the remainder of your two postings, you again have gone so far out of the universe of reasonable debate that nothing makes sense anymore. Arguing about the facist history of Germany, only serves to show how "off the mark" you are with anything relating to today. And in case you missed it Dave, that would by 2007 and it would involve Canada!
Your eyes see the impoverished and downtrodden people pooling at your feet, longingly looking up to you and begging for a small crust of justice. Everyone else merely sees a mean old man tilting at windmills. The only danger to other posters on this forum is disagreeing with you because then your name calling starts. In case you missed it, it is called cyber-bullying and you are one of the best I have ever seen. Yes, I know that we will all now be regaled with the copious, convoluted stories about how "the world done Dave wrong" and not the other way around but, you can write chapters and still not cover the flaws in your position. Almost thirty million fine folks in this land and a couple of dozen have climbed on the "Dave Train". Even if you can now claim to represent the rights and concerns of five hundred people (an impossibly high number), the mathmatical reality is there is less than .0000166667% of the population actively seeking out "Dave's Justice". And that my friend means that you can consider that you personally speak for almost no other Canadians! It kind of makes your bizarre opinions about Canadian justice, virtually non existent. It really says to any reasonable reader still hanging on to this thread hoping for a sliver of non-slanderous reasoning from your side, that they share with me in my continued belief that this is one hell of a fine country in which to live.
If the law has for the most part been unjust to David Thornton, I can only be left to wonder why? You have screamed about our crappy judicial system for so long now, it is almost sad that you are parading this one court judgement as though it eradicates all the past injustices that you have shouted about for so many years! And in case you cannot see the obvious, that would make your argument two-faced!
You can't have it both ways Dave so which is it? If the law was incorrect in your past, it must therefore be incorrect in your present. Or perhaps your legal reality is reversed. The law is correct in your present and therefore very, very correct in your past!
Bruce |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:20 pm: |
|
I see in the news tonight your vicious Calgary Police beat up another citizen, this time caught on video. What about all the others not caught on video, and this list of red-neck facists on the link below? They were also assisting Kippax in his money-laundering, racketeering pyramid fraud. This is the Bruce Audley Justice.
http://q.sitelevelsearch.com/query-ask.go?crid=0b38f236434579fe&query=calgary&slice_title=&page=1&sp=1 |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 7:42 pm: |
|
Here are some more victims Bruce, who deserve to be taken in pyramid fraud schemes and then threatened. This is Canadian Diamond Traders out of a "brick and mortar" building in Toronto; a member of the American Chamber of Commerce and helped along by unscrupulous and undisciplined lawyers. Not unlike the crap you hang out with and condone.
"I found the relay number. In case you may not be familiar, relay services facilitate calls between deaf and hearing people since I cannot use the voice phone number.
Their number is 1 866 327 8877 . You give them my number (301)xxx xxxx and they will dial for you.
Hope to hear from you soon. I am angry for being 'threatened', but also feeling scared as I am just a small time blogger who wants to protect other deaf people from being scammed. They are always victimized by these kinds of scams.
elizabeth" |
bruce_audley
New member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 12:02 am: |
|
You poor sad old man! More of "the world done you wrong" and we get to read it all again. Hard to read when one is yawning but if one just perseveres, they can slog through it. I must admit that I was confused about what you thought the Calgary police officers had to do with me but then I merely needed to remind myself of all of the other stuff that you erroneously post and it at least starts to make some sense. It is patently obvious that you have no clue about the proper meaning of the word "facism" but for the record, I have nothing to do with any police force and I live nowhere near Calgary (though it is one beautiful city). I will also state for the record that the "City of Calgary Police Force" is one of the best in the nation and while I have only heard brief comments of the incident you refer to, I can tell you I already know that it will be investigatied and if punishment is required, it will be given. Unlike you Dave, I do not place myself in the position of judge and jury, particularly because I hold dear the belief that you find so archaic, "a person is presummed innocent until found guilty in a court of law".
But then that brings us back again to your own views of our legal system, doesn't it. So which is it Dave? You positively glow when writing about how our wonderful Canadian justice system sided with you when you won your small court opinion. Could this be the same judicial system you denigrate regularly when they have not always seen your way? I'll answer because the odorous spittle of hate is clogging your keyboard these days. The answer is YES!
And why do people have to sign up on your website in order to tell their stories? Inform this highly respected news organization to read this very site. If this organization is half way credible and they really want facts, they should post their contact information and allow people to contact them directly for their own anonymous stories. Anyone on this forum from the age of six up that has read your poisonous postings, would be making a huge lead of faith in giving you all their informaiton and allowing YOU of all people to speak on their behalf.
Yes, there are stories out there to be told but David Thornton as the public keeper of records would have disaster written all over it! Imagine if someone dared even slightly disagree with your telling of their story. The name calling that you have dished out for all of us to read over the years, would be just a small taste of some of what they could expect. I have always seen your cyber-bullying as nothing more than the ramblings of a very unstable individual however; I believe that you could do worse if you had other people's confidential information in your system. If you want to write a sweeping news article bent on saving the world from these modern day pirates, do it with the volumes of information already at your fingertips.
Bruce |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 1:16 pm: |
|
And now we're witness to the attitude on the faces of dozens and dozens of obviously vicious L.A. cops, also obviously "drunk with power" wading into a crowd consisting of seniors, children, women and reporters, indiscriminately shooting and bashing victims. Those rubber bullets could easily have hit and blinded children; and using an excuse to wreak havoc on obviously innocent people. Anyone can clearly observe the “police mentality” written all over their vicious faces. Women cops as well… (The Stanford Syndrome). The same vicious cop mentality we fought against in Kitchener Ontario years ago. And the Bruce Audleys of this world still closing their ignorant minds to it. Still ridiculing, laughing and cyber attacking the victims of crime as though they have no right to be heard or explain what happened to them, OR TO TELL THEIR STORIES ON FACTNET without being subject to your abuse ... because we have this so called “GREAT WONDERFUL ... Works-for-Bruce-Audley SYSTEM.” If it has to happen to anyone I sincerely hope the hell it happens to you or one of your family who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; you sickening pompous a$$. |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 1:30 pm: |
|
The proven brutal record of the Calgary and Edmonton police forces is well documented in final court records. The perjury, wrongful convictions, and trumped up "evidence." |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 1:53 pm: |
|
Excerpt from the story of RCMP officer John Hudak put on trial falsely for rape.
"Hudak was acquitted but his career was destroyed. He transferred to Calgary. Women working in the office learned about his previous charges and expressed concern about working in the same office with an alleged rapist. On October 9, 2003, John left the RCMP.
The charges, sexual assault and uttering death threats, are the sort of charges that do not easily go away, even when a person is exonerated by a court."
Like I maintain Bruce Audley, you're like a common "church gossip"; and every bit as nasty and no better than those office witches. |
bruce_audley
New member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 4:54 pm: |
|
Still ain't a David Thornton cyber-bully though! Your ongoing ridicule of our judicial system would be funny if it were simply not so sad. That is except for the one time that the court agreed with you and then your unbelievable change of heart and fawning WAS funny to read. Hate to point it out yet one more time old buddy but your efforts to have your brand of David Thornton justice both ways, just doesn't work on a sophisticated forum such as this. Try www.whiners.com or better yet, www.dontlikeitmovesomewhereelse.com.
I laughed out loud (I'm actually still laughing) at your thought that I am a common "church gossip" for no other reason then that would make you... |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 5:03 am: |
|
If readers want to know what’s going on world-wide and the seriousness of the issues we tackle at CrimeBustersNow, and have been trying to warn you about since 2004, then, instead of listening to this narrow-minded, pyramid condoning, sorely misguided, mean, nasty, hypocritical, extreme right-wing neo-fascist, Bruce Audley, please read the following links. And Bruce, a cheap emerald does not make a pyramid fraud “perfectly legal” no matter what some corrupt or incredibly stupid legal counsel in the attorney general’s office “brainwashed” you into believing, and notwithstanding how many money-laundering racketerring RCMP, OPP, regional and town police, jail guards, politicians, yes, and even government prosecutors, their wives, accountants, doctors, nurses, chiropractors, real estate agents, insurance agents, teachers, school board officials, chambers of commerce and BBB members and jewelers like yourself promote these frauds; that has been proven more than once in a court of law; the system you claim to believe in. Neither does anything else, including your obfuscating B.S. and your misguided views on what “presumed innocent until proven guilty” actually means notwithstanding. The cheap emerald “doesn’t cut it.” Get over it, you brain-washed mean spirited schoolyard bully looking for victims to “second-kick” while they’re down; university, college, even high school kids; the financially unsophisticated, seniors, immigrants, even the blind and the deaf. You have serious narcissistic mental problems. Go check it out professionally.
And notice readers. The police put Canada first.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/12/story.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=10437869
http://www.star-telegram.com/189/story/92249.html
dave
www.crimebustersnow.com 905-963-3389 24/7 --- We return calls toll free in North America and 22 countries. If anyone has been burned on this or any other similar scam contact us. |
pickled_sausage
New member
Username: pickled_sausage
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.157.74.138
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 9:03 am: |
|
The great irony Dave is that the more you post, the more you strengthen Bruce's position. The very fact that it is YOU who stands up in sweeping condemnation of our police, judicial system and overall quality of life, is in itself vindication on just how right and wonderful it is. Not flawless, but right.
One need only look at your jumbled rants above to realize that this guy maybe doesn't have great perspective on right and wrong.
P.S..It's a beautiful, sunny, Spring day here in Ontario. Why not take a day off from being angry and get outside. Pull out that Butterfly catcher, do a little Tai-Chi in the park, get to work on that Soapbox racer, see if you can get a road hockey game going.
It's cliche', but take a few moments to smell the proverbial roses.
(Message edited by pickled sausage on May 06, 2007) |
bruce_audley
New member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 10:40 am: |
|
I could not agree more! I am posting from Western Canada and I will bet you a loonie (one dollar for you Americans) that our day today will beat anything that Ontario can muster. Mind you, with my second office being located in Richmond Hill, I took a lot a flack recently when it was 21 (130 degrees for you Americans) in Toronto and we were blanketed with yet one more freak snow storm here in Alberta!
Enjoy the day...
Bruce |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 5:25 pm: |
|
Back to pyramid fraud and the topic "NO PRODUCT WILL KEEP A PYRAMID FRAUD "JUST INSIDE THE LAW"
Here we have the grandson of a president misusing his heritage in a pyramid fraud that "sells" gold coins. Like I have maintained, and right on topic... "NO PRODUCT [even gold] WILL KEEP A PYRAMID FRAUD "JUST INSIDE THE LAW."
This is of course contrary to the Law according to Bruce Audley, apparently spewed out by some corrupt or incredibly stupid lawyers at the attorney general's department with 100's of corrupt RCMP, OPP and other cops involved in these money-laundering racketerring pyramid schemes.
These corrupt or incredibly stupid "legal weasels" seem to be trying to claim pyramid frauds are legal, so, I suppose, they can hopefully cover-up racketeering and not have to prosecute corrupt cops, their wives and their families, not to mention even prosecutors, justices of the peace, and jewelry appraisers who are involved in pyramid fraud; specifically the "fraud of the decade, WEW; cloned into TTI, BIM, Canadian Diamond Traders etc."
But, according to the bizarre Audley mentality, less than 500 victims of the crimes we pursue including pyramid fraud actually exist in Canada according to this bizarre Bruce Audley figure of .0000166667%.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailcity.asp?fileid=20070505.C04&irec=3 |
bruce_audley
New member
Username: bruce_audley
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 142.59.179.3
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 11:39 pm: |
|
Sometimes you are just silly the way you see everything as justified if David Thornton believes it so, and then most of the remainder of the postings you are just odious and hateful. Kind of like hating our justice system but loving their ruling in your little court battle.
This is just as ridiculous. You start with a demand that everyone stay on topic and that almost seems to make sense. Then, no sooner said and you go off into your hate mongering again. I assume that as readers, we are supposed to appreciate that the topic is now your cyber-bullying but shouldn't that now be some kind of different topic heading? How about "David's vile poison" or "David's hateful views on the citizens and judiciary of our fine country"? Heck, I would even settle for a site dedicated to the issues of the world that David Thornton has actually corrected (as opposed to watching others and then taking the credit as he did for the U.K. legislation barring T.T.I.Co.) but realistically, there would be nothing to post! At least it would be a fast read...
Bruce |
saygoodnightgracie
Member
Username: saygoodnightgracie
Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.56.9.143
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 8:51 pm: |
|
Bruce
What the hell is your problem?
Dude's exposing fraud, you got a big problem with that for some reason?
Ohhhh, "cyberbullying". So you're one THOSE weasels. You say whatever you want, but if someone says something to you, it's "cyberbullying". Get a grip geekness.
Oh |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 2:33 am: |
|
Thanks on this thread too.
dave |
pickled_sausage
New member
Username: pickled_sausage
Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 67.70.45.42
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 8:24 am: |
|
saygoodnightgracie:
As eloquent and profound as your statements above are, perhaps you should read back a little to gain some context.
You don't have a clue. Dude! |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 5:25 pm: |
|
Excerpts from story below.
"Treasure Traders International and, more rently, Canadian Diamond Traders, are similar scams that are recruiting victims worldwide,"Robert Fitzpatrick, head of the US-based Pyramid Scheme Alert told LBO.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert FitzPatrick of Pyramid Scheme Alert" <rfitzpatrick@pyramidschemealert.org>
To: <gatoraid@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: [Fwd: From Asantha Sri Lanka - Pyramidschemalert in the news]
David
FYI
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: From Asantha Sri Lanka - Pyramidschemalert in the news
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:03:05 +0530
From: asantha sirimanne <asanthamail@gmail.com> To: rfitzpatrick@pyramidschemealert.org
Hi Robert,
Here is the link where you are quoted. Sorry I could not send it to you earlier. I have also put the full story below.
Asantha
http://www.lbo.lk/fullstory.php?newsID=1441591565&no_view=1&no_view=1&SEARCH_TERM=2
http://www.lbo.lk/fullstory.php?newsID=1441591565&no_view=1&no_view=1&SEARCH_TERM=2>
LBO >> Finance
Beware 9 <http://www.lbo.lk/blogcomment.php?newsid=1441591565>
Comment/s <http://www.lbo.lk/blogcomment.php?newsid=1441591565>
16 May 2007 12:45:42
Sri Lanka warned to be vigilant against pyramid schemes following arrest of Goldquest leaders
May 16, 2007 (LBO) – An international anti-pyramiding activist has called on Sri Lanka to be vigilant against multi-level marketing schemes that can invade the country following the arrest of top Goldquest operatives in Indonesia.
"Treasure Traders International and, more rently, Canadian Diamond Traders, are similar scams that are recruiting victims worldwide,"Robert Fitzpatrick, head of the US-based Pyramid Scheme Alert told LBO.
"I hope that Sri Lanka can maintain its vigilance against these scams, despite their false claims about being legitimate 'sales' companies. "These are not sales companies, but money transfer schemes that require a huge loss rate based on their designs. "Cult Sell"
Some analysts have calculated the loss rate of the double-pyramid 'binary compensation' structure used by Goldquest to be as high as 98
percent, indicating that only 2 percent of the participants make money. Its products are sold through intensive selling meetings where people are repeatedly given the same message until it is ingrained in their brains in a cult-like fashion.
Goldquest's Quest International (QI) group Chief Executive Vijayeswaran Vijayaratnam is said to be held in 'demi-god' status by his follows.
"Endless chain schemes have almost mystical power over people. They arouse hope, passion and confusion. They promise 'unlimited' income, an
almost divine power," Fitzpatrick said in a presentation made when he visited Sri Lanka for a regional central bankers conference against pyramiding.} |
gatordave
New member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 6:10 pm: |
|
"Promoters can take on god-like authority and power, since they hold the reigns to this mystical power."
Classic Model
Goldquest's main website now goes as Qatana.com <http://qatana.com>. The firm claims to sell 'numismatics' but its main products are medals.
"Gold Quest claims to be an ordinary multilevel marketing program of the types that are operating openly in the USA and other ountries,"
Fitzpatrick has said earlier on a notice posted at www.falseprofits.com http://www.falseprofits.com>.
"Its business model is a classic MLM program in which each new investor recruits others in an 'endless chain.'
"Little actual retail selling occurs. Each 'distributor' is also the 'customer'," he adds.
News reports from Indonesia said the firm had misused the image of former President bdurrahman Wahid to recruit his followers into Goldquest Schemes.
Previously images of religious leaders, the Pope, Mother Theresa as well as Benigno Aquino had been used to make medallions, which were then sold as 'coins'.
Goldquests activities have been banned in several countries, including, Bhutan, Nepal, and and its officials arrested.
Arrest Quest
Last week, the public face of the organization, Vijayeswaran Vijayaratnam, director Joseph Luis Tomacruz Bismark, and two other senior executives, Donna Marie Glen Imson and Tagumpay Pablo Perez Kintanar were arrested in Indonesia.
The Goldquest kingpins were believed to have been arrested following an MLM upliners' promotional conference called V-Jakarta. The scheme's top promoters are labelled the V-Team.
In 2003 Imson had been arrested in Nepal after conducting a promotional conference together with an Indian national, Tanbir Nijam, according to Nepalese media reports. Chennai police have also previously arrested Goldquest officials.
The Indonesian arrests stemmed from an Interpol request on a warrant related to a fraud in the Philippines.
"One of the complainants lost $625,000 to the suspects," ABS-CBN News of the Philippines said. "The suspects went into hiding after a manhunt was launched against them. Interpol also placed them in its wanted list."
International Web
ABS-CBN News quoted Ric Diaz, regional director for criminal intelligence at the National Bureau of Investigation as saying that GoldQuest International, were able to victimize people across Asia adding that the suspects had offices in the region's financial districts.
Interpol also lists Georg Kurt Rocco Rinck as a wanted man, who activists say is the brains behind Goldquest's binary compensation plans. However in the past Goldquest operatives had somehow managed to get loose whenever they were arrested.
Though Sri Lanka brought an anti-pyramid law to combat Goldquest and even arrested 7 of its upliners, the unit that investigated Goldquest was later disbanded amidst much controversy. |
gatordave
Junior Member
Username: gatordave
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.39.120.51
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 6:13 pm: |
|
Fitzpatrick says MLM scams "corrupt local officials by offering them a position 'at the top' to gain entry into a chain." [my emphasis]
But this week Sri Lanka's Sunday Times said the central bank has resumed investigations into Goldquest, though no mention was made of the progress of the case against operatives caught earlier.
Goldquest has also been channelling money in to Sri Lanka's equity markets without any official action against them so far, though investee firms, especially banks like NDB, have waged a lone battle with whatever means at their disposal to block Quest International (QI group) related purchases.
Sri Lanka now has anti-money laundering legislation in place.
Meanwhile reports said a team of ten police officials were due to fly to Indonesia to bring back the arrested Goldquest leaders, but the
company's lawyers were fighting extradition.
--
Robert L. FitzPatrick, Pres.
PYRAMID SCHEME ALERT
1800 Camden Rd.
Ste. 107 #101
Charlotte, NC 28203
704-334-2047
RFitzPatrick@PyramidSchemeAlert.org
http://www.PyramidSchemeAlert.org
NO PRODUCT WILL KEEP A PYRAMID FRAUD "JUST INSIDE THE LAW"
dave
www.crimebustersnow.com 905-963-3389 24/7 --- We return calls toll free in North America and 22 countries. If anyone has been burned on this or any other similar scam contact us.
(Message edited by gatordave on May 23, 2007) |
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