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     cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 65.110.6.36 |
Hi folks. I like to think I am a pretty savvy guy about all things LGAT and cultlike, but I just found out I had been duped again! This time they did not get my money, but they almost got my mind. A couple of years ago, I got into a process called GTD, from the book "Getting Things Done". Its basically a very sophisticated Time Managment system, but it goes way beyond that. Its for the very high level white collar crowd, and is quite complex and subtle. Just the other day, I was reading a book where a colleague of David Allen's credited John-Roger. This reminded me that David Allen also credited J-R in this book. I had a lightbulb moment! It dawned on me that David Allen was hooked in with that guy somehow. I did some research, and very quickly found out that David Allen is a longterm senior Minister in John-Rogers LGAT church MSIA. MSIA also does business LGAT's, and David Allen has worked for Insight, and other LGAT's for decades. The amazing thing is that it is SO SUBTLE what he is doing in GTD, most people do not see it. I am no slouch, and I did not see it. I knew SOMETHING was wrong, but I couldn't figure it out. But once I figured this out, then it all came together in my mind, that GTD is a type of complete thought reform system. Anyway, I posted some of my findings on the GTD site, and of course the villagers came out with picks and shovels. Even the big man David Allen himself told me tonight that if I continued to probe this subject, they would kick me out of the forum, and delete my info. The bottom line is that David Allen's GTD might very well be another 'front' for the MSIA LGAT church. One can't say yet that it is for sure, but all the signs are there. David Allen has been with MSIA for 34 years, and he does not mention this affiliation in his books. He just gives very vague references to his past as doing business seminars. I think that GTD might be a type of front for MSIA, as David Allen has not repudiated J-R, or Insight, and still holds them in high regard, while not openly acknowledging them. It is also very interesting that he himself would warn me to stop posting my info, after only one day. Ya think I hit a nerve? I may have busted open my first LGAT cult front-organization! What are they so afraid of? Why be so afraid of your own resume, Mr. David Allen? Anyway, have a look at the posts, and let me know what you think. Hopefully my posts will survive, but I doubt it. http://www.davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5090 http://www.davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5098 _________________ Here is what David Allen himself said to me tonight, about his affiliations with J-R, MSIA, and Insight Seminars. Why is David Allen seemingly afraid of his resume and present associations? "Originally Posted by DavidAllen ProjectThis - I'm fine that you want to communicate whatever, in some appropriate manner - to me or to others, but your agenda seems something other than what this Forum is about. Frankly, I don't know anyone of any consequence on this planet who hasn't bothered and scared someone else by being who they are and sharing it with others. So? The good news about this discussion is the validation it has surfaced from those who follow my message: try it, and if it works, use it. If something works better, cool. I keep working on it, myself... I don't particularly like to play this way, but our WebMaster is tasked with keeping the Forums on track, so if you continue to pursue your agenda, it'll get nixed. - David Allen" | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
I think what really got them going nuts over there, was the information I posted from this article from Margaret Singer from the Awareness page, that specifically mentions Insight Seminars, MSIA, and J-R. This is around the time when David Allen was teaching the Insight Seminar, so coming from an authority like Dr. Margaret Singer, that type of information must be suppressed. I think this is why they keep creating new 'front groups', so they can start with a clean slate. Here is a short excerpt, that I think made their entire company go ballistic. (Thank you Margaret Singer, that woman was a true hero). And thanks goodness for the internet and this information. It is literally saving people from years of exploitation. http://caic.org.au/psyther/lgat/singer.htm Intruding into the Workplace Jossey-Bass Publishers, 1995 By Dr. Margaret Singer Development of a New Age Training Program: A Case Example One personal development program quite popular with educated professionals was Insight Seminars. Some defectors from the organization have charged that Insight was used to recruit members to the background organization, the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness (MSIA). The founder of Insight and head of MSIA is John Roger Hinkins (although he rarely uses his last name), and his story is an interesting one... Hinkins graduated with a degree in psychology from the University of Utah in 1958. Subsequent to a postoperative coma in 1963, he claims he awoke to say he felt there were two people within him: a "new" John and the "old" Roger. For a while, J-R, as he called himself, sold his spiritual insights for three-dollar love offerings. Then he studied Eckankar, a New Age spiritual system, and declared himself the "holder" of the Mystical Traveler Consciousness fighting the Red Monk (the devil). He is said to have considered himself in line with Jesus, Moses, Noah, and the like. Blending the old and the new, J-R created MSIA and gained quite a following. By the early 1970s, he was teaching seminars four nights a week. Later in the same decade, some of his devotees convinced him to adapt Lifespring training to MSIA's needs. (Lifespring has been one of the more popular LGATs since the early to mid 1970s, along with est and Actualizations. ) Working with a person who had been key in the development of Lifespring, J-R inaugurated his Insight training seminar with 120 MSIA ministers, who spread it first to MSIA's own church cells then to public seminars. J-R is reported to have called Insight both his "ministry" and his "money machine." (cont'd at link) http://caic.org.au/psyther/lgat/singer.htm | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
Well, David Allen instructed his webmaster to delete the entire thread showing the evidence that David Allen is a part of MSIA, and is intimately linked to J-R, and Insight Seminars. Why is David Allen so afraid of this info getting out to his customers? Why is David Allen appearing to cover-up his past and present associations with J-R and Insight Seminars? Also, someone else in the thread had mentioned that most of David Allen's staff is from MSIA. So it begs the question, is GTD and DavidCo a front organization for MSIA in the business seminar arena? It appears the answer to this might be yes. But more evidence needs to be gathered. Please spread the info around that David Allen and GTD have come out of MSIA, J-R, and Insight Seminars. The public does not know this yet. They have gone to great lengths to distance themselves from MSIA, for obvious reasons. Here is some more evidence so far... David Allen endorses J-R in 2003 on this page. http://www.ndh.org/template.php3?ID=431 "I had allowed some limiting behaviors to sneak up on me in the last few years,and Super II allowed me to identify and move past them while installing a magic switch for getting back to myself again whenever I need to. The original Insight Seminar Series was instrumental in helping me create a fantastic life. Super II was the elegant capstone - in spades!” - David Allen ------------ David Allen worked for Insight Seminars, and has been with MSIA for 34 years, right from the beginning. http://www.davidco.com/blogs/david/archives/education/ "I sort of grew up in the training world in the experiential personal-growth milieu (was a facilitator for Insight Seminars for several years)". -------------------------- http://www.davidco.com/blogs/david/archives/2005/12/off_to_see_the.html David here - Well, we're back. Thanks for your well wishes. FYI the spiritual organization I've been closely involved with for 34 years is MSIA (The Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness). http://msia.org/ (Basically a group of radical-non-joiners who share a focus on a practical approach to spirituality). Posted by: David Allen at December 12, 2005 01:03 PM ___________________________ | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
http://www.san.beck.org/Bridge3.html When I got my first Aura Balance, John-Roger came into the room and put his finger on my forehead and said, "Your third eye really wants to open, but drugs have prevented that." I went home and realized how much pain I had gone through, how much karma I had produced, how much guilt I had around me, and how much I had distorted my auric energy field. This man had just walked in and taken years and years if not lifetimes of pain and struggling from me. I was filled with so much Light I could hardly stand it. Then about a month later I came to Los Angeles for an emotional Aura Balance. I had had a monkey on my back, and that was released. I'd had much guilt tacked onto my basic self, which was released during my spiritual Aura Balance. Guilt looks small when looked at with the mind, but it can block the energy throughout one's whole expression. I hadn't had a good hearty laugh at all in years like I had at the end of my spiritual Aura Balancing. David Allen ------------------------- http://www.ndh.org/template.php3?ID=64 "Wow!! That’s what seemed to express the thoughts and feelings of Movement staffers and others who recently participated in a one-day seminar on “Getting Things Done – Controlling Work Flow.” This workshop was facilitated by David Allen, MSIA minister..." http://www.ndh.org/template.php3?ID=65 "As we have approached and passed into the new millenium, a number of people have emerged in MSIA and elsewhere who don’t just practice their Ministry during their off-duty hours, but all the time. Their very essence is the Ministry, for the Highest Good at all levels. David Allen is one of those individuals. An MSIA Minister and Initiate from the hills of Ojai, California." http://www.2020hindsight.org/2003/01/11/organizing-religion/ "I haven’t met David Allen personally, but I chilled quickly when I realized that the “spiritual coach” whom he mentions in his acknowledgements is the notorious (at least in Santa Barbara County) John-Roger (http://www.john-roger.org/). Do a Google search on the guy and decide for yourself. Having grown up in California, I’ve got an infallible cult detector, so I said, “Later, dude, I’m genetically incapable of joining.” | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
I noticed long ago when I read Getting Things Done, that David Allen thanked a person named J-R who he called his spiritual coach. I recall wondering who that might have been. Recently I was reviewing a book from an author Sally McGhee, who used to be a partner with David Allen in a company called Productivity Development Group. In Sally McGhee's book, she also acknowledges her spiritual teacher, John Roger. John-Roger goes by the name J-R, so obviously this is who David Allen is thanking in the front of his book. What is interesting about this, is that J-R, John-Roger, is an extremely controversial individual, who one can find out quite a bit about by doing some Googling.This is something worth looking into very carefully. For me it explains and clarifies some of the positions and directions that David Allen takes in his books. There was a critical book written about John-Roger, J-R, but this book is now not available, but it would be in your library system. The customer reviews at Amazon are very interesting. Life 102: What to Do When Your Guru Sues You (Hardcover) by Peter McWilliams http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093158034X/102-5821042-5368908?v=glance&n=283155 The book 'Do It, Let's Get Off Our Buts" used to be listed as being by John-Roger, J-R from MSIA. But that's where it starts getting weird. Peter McWilliams, is the guy who really wrote all those Life 101 and Do It books, but put John-Rogers name on the cover, as he was involved in this MSIA cult at the time. He tells the inside story about all of it in this book. John-Roger's church MSIA, links to the DavidCo website. http://www.msia.org/msia.qry?ID=85 Googling J-R, John-Roger, turns up some interesting info. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-05,GGLG:en&q=cult+john%2Droger I only figured out recently that David Allen was a Minister and Initiate in this MSIA group. There are a number of methods and presuppositions within GTD that are questionable and not empirical, but I did not know their origin until now. Some of these ideas came more to the surface in David Allen's recent book Ready For Anything. A person can look into how groups like MSIA operate under the leadership of a charismatic leader, and carry out LGAT seminars, and how this connects with the GTD system and structure. There are definitely certain central parts and embedded ideas and philosophies within GTD that come from MSIA. David Allen has been involved in it for 34 years, so that's since he was about 27 years old. Also, the book Ready For Anything has a lot more material that is also coming from that direction, and I found some of it highly dubious even before I knew its origin. I find it very interesting that both David Allen, and Sally McGhee who both teach very similar methods are both followers of J-R. David Allen has referred to J-R as the "Mystical Traveler" and said in blog he was "Off to see the Wizard". If one carefully looks into the MSIA J-R thing, its gets extremely bizarre, with charges of plagiarism, connections to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar, and J-R is to say the minimum, and extremely controversial individual. http://www.caic.org.au/miscult/jrmsia.htm | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
Freedom of religion is paramount in the USA, but full-disclosure is also just as important. It is also useful to analyze which ideas have an empirical basis, and which do not. There are a number of concepts and presuppositions interwoven into GTD that appear to come directly from MSIA. From my perspective, it has nothing to do with religion at all. MSIA has run very controversial LGAT business and other personal seminars, under various changing guises and fronts like Insight Seminars, over the course of many decades. David Allen credits Russell Bishop in his book, and Russell Bishop came from Lifespring, and was one of the creators of Insight Seminars, and David Allen worked for Insight Seminars, which is owned by MSIA. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/ J-R blatantly uses every technical trick in the book on people, in terms of 'thought reform' and the entire technical library of the LGAT seminar system that has evolved over decades. J-R has been the mastermind and 'Wizard of Oz behind the curtain' behind all sorts of ventures, as due to all the bad press he has had, he often keeps himself out of the limelight in certain arenas. So its not about religion whatsoever, or even New Age beliefs. Its about the technical system and structure of the LGAT 'personal productivity' seminar and 'educational systems' as practiced by MSIA/Insight for many decades, and possible connections or influences with the structure and embedded presuppositions within the GTD system. Did anyone else know David Allen was a Minister, advanced Initiate and 34 year member in a type of spiritual church lead by a controversial charismatic leader (who some call a cult leader), that has conducted LGAT-style business and personal development seminars for many decades, under a cloud of enormous controversy and very serious allegations? I did not know this, and I find that relevant, as it does explain some things, and probably many folks will also find that interesting and surprising as well. If you look at the books acknowledgements, J-R gets the last thanks right before his wife. "deepest thanks go to my spiritual coach, J-R, for being such an awesome guide and consistent reminder of my real priorities". David has been closely associated with J-R and his church for 34 years, and still is. J-R is a highly controversial person to say the least, and to be honest, it does make me question David Allen's judgement to be associating himself with John-Roger, after everything that has gone down with that guy. I personally think John-Roger is a flat out con-artist, and of very dubious character at best, and I do not think he is in the least a type of Godman and Mystical Traveler, which is literally what he claims he is. Its some truly bizarro stuff he is selling. Also, the emotional Aura Balance stuff does not inspire confidence either. | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
Also, the fact connections with Insight seminars are highly relevant. When Dr. Margaret Singer, who was the world's top expert in this area, writes that Insight Seminars was reported as a front group to recruit people into MSIA, then this needs to be looked into. I am not saying David Allen is covering up his past or current affiliations, but I have always wondered why his past was always represented in such a vague way. He openly talks about Martial Arts, but not the John-Roger connection. But, he does give J-R the second highest thanks in his book, so its obviously something he is very proud of. One can begin to look more closely into how the teachings, beliefs, organizational structures, seminars, and marketing, of J-R and MSIA intersect with GTD in terms of some of many of the embedded assumptions and presuppositions. That obviously would take some time and careful analysis. I can see some connections with parts of GTD, in the sense of it being a 'totalist' type of system, it does contain some aspects of 'thought reform', personality marketing, and it does contain various embedded assumptions about how the human mind operates, which may or may not be accurate. One quick example is the idea that writing down 'all' of your open loops makes you have less stress. Is there any empirical psychological research that proves this? It might be true, it might not. What if writing down the most crucial open loops give some benefit, but trying to capture 'all' of them, is self defeating and creates more stress, as its an impossible task? Where is the empirical evidence (not anecdotal) that writing down all of your 'open loops' reduces stress? What if it raises stress? Also, the part about renegotiating all of ones commitments is pure LGAT stuff, that is vintage J-R. Is anxiety really caused by breaking our own agreements with our self? What if trying to clarify all of our agreements with our self makes us more stressed, as again, its another impossible and obsessive task? What if modifying those agreements does not work as advertised? For the sake of argument, what if writing down everything actually increases stress? I don't know if it does, but it might. What if a better approach is to not sweat the small stuff? What if GTD is ultimately an undoable system, which contains some incorrect embedded assumptions from some dubious sources (like J-R) that have not been empirically researched? Certainly some of the presuppositions embedded within GTD are not correct. Its not an accident that people have talked about 'drinking the GTD Kool-Aid' and that Fast Company called 'GTD: A New Cult for the Info Age'. Obviously that is meant in jest, but if one takes 3 steps back, and thinks very carefully they might see some things they had not noticed before, on the higher end structural level of GTD, in the area of some of its embedded presuppositions about how the human mind and emotions operate. | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
Its a FACT that most, if not ALL of David Allen's employees are high-level members of the MSIA religious cult, lead by John-Roger, and also by John Morton. They also control Insight Seminars, and all sorts of other front companies like this, who do LGAT seminars. Here is a list of a few of his staff ans seminar presenters and coaches. Which one's are a member of MSIA? Let's see... http://www.davidco.com/team.php David Allen's wife is a member of MSIA. Kathryn Allen http://ndh.org/template.php3?ID=340 Kelly Forrister is a member of MSIA. http://www.ndh.org/template.php3?ID=633 Ana Maria Gonzalez is a member of MSIA. http://www.davidco.com/ana.php Wayne Pepper is a member of MSIA http://www.ndh.org/template.php3?ID=385 Jason Womack lists John-Roger as a "mentor". http://www.davidco.com/blogs/jason/ Robert Peake is a member of MSIA. http://ndh.org/template.php3?ID=330 Liz Vernand is a member of MSIA. www.ovlc.org/newsletters/open%20spaces%20Sum03.pdf I think its time for David Allen to come forward and start telling the truth, and stop trying to conceal the fact he is running some type of LGAT front organization for MSIA, Insight Seminars, and John-Roger and John Morton. | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
Here is yet another one. David Allen thanks another member of MSIA for giving him keyboard shortcuts! I wonder how long all of these links are going to last before they delete them as well? David Allen has been a devout follower of the charismatic and psychopathic cult-leader John-Roger for 34 years. This is why David Allen has such a strange work history, working manual labour and such. That is the typical cult follower route. You work for John-Roger FOR FREE for many years, while doing odd-jobs. Then if you are devoted enough, you can move into seminars, while still giving John-Roger all of your money. Then when you get REALLY good, and you can lie like a sidewalk for God and Guru, then he lets you set up a front company for him, to bring MSIA more money, and to "spread the message". One would bet that all the profits of DavidCo go right back to John-Roger and MSIA. Sure, they can take a bit to pay for their house and food, but that's about it. Maybe. Its sad really. But now he is trying to sneak his cultlike systems and beliefs into major companies, and schools, and into people's personal lives. And he is succeeding very well, as what they are doing is so subtle that no one knows what is going on. People are falling for it hook-line and sinker. Even the media has not caught on...yet. But if people contact the media, someone will do a full investigation of DavidCo, David Allen, and GTD, and then they won't be able to TRICK PEOPLE IN COMPANIES. I wonder how David Allen can justify this level of DECEPTION in his head? Please notify whatever media outlets you can, so some reporters can look into this. The public has a right to know what is going on, and to not be deceived. That is truly immoral and despicable. Welcome to the world of the cult...self-righteous deception. ------------------------- http://www.davidco.com/tips_tools/tip45.html Speed Keys - for Windows & Outlook by David Allen Shortcut Keys for Windows (Thanks to Barbara Wieland at MSIA!) Alphabetical list by Shortcut Key | ||
| cultthis New member Username: cultthis Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 85.195.123.22 |
Updates, and further details are now being made in this thread on the Rick Ross Cult Education Forum. Lots of new information is coming out. David Allen - GTD - John-Roger - MSIA - Insight Seminars http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=2193 Turns out that basically all of the "coaches" at www.DavidCo.com, the GTD company, are Recruiters for the MSIA cult, who will subtley move you in the direction of one of MSIA many types of LGAT "programs" so they can begin to "program" you and bring you into the MSIA "family" cult. This is truly a diabolical system, because it is done so well. One of the most subtle out there right now. PLEASE INFORM SOME CULT ANALYSIS EXPERTS OF THIS SO WE CAN GET SOME EXPERTS TO ANALYZE THE THOUGHT REFORM TECHNIQUES IN THE GTD SYSTEM. Please keep up to date at the new link below, and spread the news and the links wherever you can. Its time for MSIA and David Allen to come clean, and stop doing all this 'mind control' stuff to unknowing corporate employees. David Allen - GTD - John-Roger - MSIA - Insight Seminars http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=2193 |
