| Author | Message | ||
     justlivin (justlivin) New member Username: justlivin Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.67.46.71 |
hey all. I have never been here before. I was part of the TT for eight years. It is really nice to find a place where I can talk about my experiences to people who know where i am coming from. When people find out that I was a member in a "cult" they have a thousand questions...makes me feel like a side show freek. Leaving was the best decission I could have made for me and my children..but on the other side of the coin...going ther, at the time, was the best decission i could have made. Spending so many years there really opened my eyes to so many things, most of all myself, and its funny because it was that that caused me to leave. I guess life is about experience. You take the good with the bad and hopefully learn from it all. If your lucky it will only cause you to be a better, stronger person. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 349 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.71.223.142 |
justlivin ...Welcome to factnet. It is a good place to come and learn and sometimes vent. You will meet some very nice people here. Welcome. there may be other boards you may be interested in so jump right in the water is warm. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 416 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.71.223.142 |
I think this thread is in the wrong spot but I guess it makes no difference...after all, as long as Gatordave is here, we've managed to not bother talking about TTI and instead we just have discussions about illegal pyramids like W.E.W. and how he has been locked up and sent to a mental hospital. This one will probably just trigger another event that may have happened in his life. No worries...the doctor probably recommends we let him vent for a bit more anyway. Get well soon Gatorman!! God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1091 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Then "big mouth" why don't you and your gang leave it alone and stop asking questions and continually demand I defend my story. You're a lair, a hypocrite and a pyramid fraud artist pointing your finger at your victims trying to discredit them all, and away from you president with the real and appauling record of assault, weapon's (to whom) and drugs. That's what people "without blinders" immune to "brainwashing" clearly are seeing all over the world. Hard ciminals and terrorists turning to pyramids masked as MLM, money laundering, counterfiet knockoff merchants and other "white collar" crime as warned about by the World Bank I.M.F. at the G8 Summit. You and the criminal TTI company are a significant part of this world-wide criminal activity. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 419 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Big mouth? In case you haven't noticed, you have nearly 3 times the number of entries as I do (most of which are unrelated to the subject of TTI)...and each of your entries probably averages to twice the length of mine. If anything, it's obvious you're the big hypocrite in this forum. Liar? Do I really have to remind everyone which of the two of us tried denying the claims of several Crown witnesses? It's clear that you also take first place for being the biggest liar here. And if you want to talk about appauling records, perhaps you thought we forgot who was arrested for rape threats, was on probabation for 9 months (without a bullhorn), and was tossed into a mental instiution. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1100 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Man what a slick, sick fact twisting liar you are. Really really reaching. That rape threat was proven untrue and already posted. Yes! Yes! Arrested!.... Arrested!!! Arrested by corrupt senior officers of the Ontario Provincial Police who were "red faced" because members of OPP officer’s families were in the "fraud of the decade "Women Empowering Women" pyramid fraud with corrupt politicians . I was not convicted for threatening rape you sick-o. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1101 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
so, you want to post your filthy lies and twisted facts over here as well. Here is the truth again I still have confidence the world will recognize you for what you are. This is the basically the same B.S. all pyramid fraud artists defend themselves with before they are arrested and charged. Just go around the Internet and read the posting before these criminals went to jail. Like I say same B.S. Some keep it up in total denial while doing time. For the truth of how this illegal pyramid "company" really operates check the new thread and the sad story a very successful Captain who has cashed out 10 times ($70,000) on the "board. See what this "virus" did to him. Now you wanted it B.S. "TRUTH" so here it is. I was invited on this site to tell my personal story. I did that. Now you refuse to leave my personal life and my family’s wounds alone. “PICKLE_BRAINS” wants desperately to see the proof of the conspiracy between, as he calls him “a poor baker” vis a vis serious injured children. This is nothing more than the epitome of “school yard bullies.” you take advantage of those willing to expose their personal stories while you remain anonymous so noone can post their options of your life. A bit like a gang of bullies hiding in the dark behind tree and building throwing rocks at one person. So, please readers when reading my postings take into consideration that my name address and phone# and email are on the internet. I am not an anonymous coward. I take responsibility for what I post. Now, as you can see the B.S. "TRUTH" is still twisting the real truth and flogging to death my non-criminal record vis-a-vis against the real criminal record of his President Alan Kippax -WEAPONS, (to whom?) DRUGS, ASSAULT. Talk about “comparing apples to oranges”. Comparing a one man noisy demonstration in a country that allows 1000's of loud demonstrators to protest on open streets to a real criminal involved in some of the darkest and heinous crimes of - WEAPONS, DRUGS ASSAULT with all the hourly and daily underworld implications it conjures up until this real criminal was finally apprehended, truly shows B.S. “TRUTH” just has nothing more to reach for and is totally and morally bankrupt. Imagine weapons, drugs and assault compared to a old man trying to warn students about pyramid fraud and corrupt police. Doesn’t this self righteous character who blasphemously signs on as “THE_TRUTH” and signs off with “God Bless” remind you of the slimly snake in the Garden of Eden story. I still wonder if he is the TTI Captain who is also the corrupt unconscionable degenerate London Ontario Judge. He certainly seems to know his way around the law. Now, consistent with his word twisting and lies and his ostensive inability to “Tell the truth and the whole truth” but rather his “finely honed” ability to misuse truth and half truth..... in his voyage around the internet “cherry picking” news stories about me.... B.S. “TRUTH” conveniently “danced over” four other stories in the news papers and a report by the Law Times concerning the Guelph Judge, Norman Douglas who at the very same time he convicted me was under investigation because of complaints and protests by the Criminal Lawyers’ Association in Guelph concerning his obvious bias...and as the report says... “lack of discernible logic”....then.... The report went on... “It is only the second time the CLA has filed a formal complaint to the judicial council since its disciplinary process was revamped in 1994"....... In his written reasons in R. v Read [Justice] Hill said he was unable to comprehend the “path of reasoning” used by [Judge] Douglas in a key part of his judgement”..... Then read in this report about the judge's “sneaky” conduct in inappropriately contacting the Crown’s Office. The Law Times went on further with this judges bizarre behaviour.... quote.... “Communications with a judge about a specific case is contrary to the policies of the ministry...” I’ve complained about that several times my self. Then this.... “A few weeks later, in a lengthy ruling, Douglas [Prov. Court Judge] criticized [Superior Court Justice Kenneth] Langdon’s findings. This led Guelph lawyer Owen Haw to file a rare “writ of prohibition” motion in Superior Court after Douglas refused to remove himself from an impaired-driving proceeding.” I don’t make this stuff up!!! Those are quotes in the LAW TIMES REPORT in the link below... picture and everything. Really bizarre!!! http://www.canadacourtwatch.com/Newpaper%20Articles/2005March25-CJC%20investigating%20Guelph%20provincial%20court%20judge.pdf These are the other articles in the press concerning Judge Douglas...... "Judge focus of probe Judicial council won't comment on complaint against Douglas SCOTT TRACEY; Daily Mercury; Mar 8, 2005; pg. A.1 Justice can't function under cloud Daily Mercury; Mar 8, 2005; pg. A.8 Complaint prompts probe into Guelph judge's conduct SCOTT TRACEY; The Record; Mar 8, 2005; pg. B.8 I didn't beat teen, officer tells court FRANCES BARRICK; The Record; Feb 23, 2005; pg. A. Police assault trial begins Supervisor 'froze' during incident FRANCES BARRICK; The Record; Feb 22, 2005; pg. A.1 All I have is the “lead in” paragraphs. I don’t have the money the Guelph Mercury and the Record in Kitchener require for the entire articles. That’s why I haven’t yet responded. I was trying to get someone in Guelph to copy them from the library. Now readers, would you demand of B.S. “TRUTH” in the interest of fairness, that he secure the rest of the four articles and post them here for all the world to see. What about you Bruce Audley. Could you write one of your “smack-him-with-a-velvet-glove” flowery responses and shame this lying bastard into telling the whole truth for once? In the interest of fairness you understand. Now consider this comment above. “Justice can't function under cloud Daily Mercury;” Mar 8, 2005; pg. A.8. I was convicted a month later April 7 2005 by this obviously bias judge. I was complaining about corrupt police and Judges and cops wife’s involved in “WEW” and the “clone” TTI. Would a reasonable thinking person believe under these circumstances in front of this judge I would have a “hope in hell” of a fair trial? Now, when you read that Judicial Report above, mentioned is another corrupt bastard lawyer Owen Haw. Now, I told you a story of bad things that happened in my family’s lives and myself personally. I had no idea that jackals and piranha that are associates of what is supposed to be a respectable “perfectly legal” company Treasure Traders Internation would relentless tear and continually feed on that. That sounds more like desperate criminals defending their illegal criminal activity, like say...... a pyramid fraud? So, since these morons don’t want to let it lie and “VOICE” is poking back to the 1970's,....as he posted “You are a convicted criminal, and you expect people to listen to you why exactly? Because you have been screwed around since the 1970’s? First, a conditional discharge does not carry with it a criminal record. Just more lies exaggeration and twisting of fact to “brainwash” morons who can’t think for themselves into again parroting the “cult” leader (dict: repeat mindlessly) which if you notice has been successful. This corrupt Owen Haw was the Senior Crown Attorney for the entire Region in the 1970's including Kitchener-Waterloo and Guelph. As Senior prosecuting attorney he prosecuted the serious cases; murder, bank robberies, DRUGS, WEAPONS, ASSAULT etc. He covered up the sexual abuse of my three young son’s by the wealthy executive and co-owner of the Lackie Bros. Corporation of Kitchener. This man’s lawyer threatened me. His second lawyer the Kitchener Crown Attorney Wm. Morrison’s father-in-law Walter McGibbon was also the Chairman of the Board of Canada Trust and numerous other companies. Most importantly he was the Chairman of the board of the Kitchener-Waterloo Record and asked by the Prime Minister of Canada to sit on the Supreme Court of Canada. Try to force a Crown Attorney to lay charges against a wealthy well connected client of a lawyer like that!! So, after I reported this to police and they were told who he was and the connections to the Crown Attorney I was told to “keep quiet.” These connections unknown to me at the time, I pushed for a proper investigation. While I was in Hong Kong and Malaysia for a month, police on the instruction of a city councilor Mervyn Villemaire, his law partner the police commissioner, Steven Harper literally stole my business. Police Constable Peter Foy came to my business at 8:41 on a Friday evening during regular businesses hours at at the behest of Villemaire ordered those in charge to give over the key to my business or be charged with theft. That for readers unfamiliar with law is extortion by threats of criminal prosecution. When I returned my business was destroyed. About a year later I discovered some of my artwork and supplies and equipment worth over $5000 in the store of the brother-in-law of a W.R. Police Officer Rick Hunt himself disciplined for bizarre acts of brutality in another matter at that time. Now, I had to fight not only for my family but for my business and my personal property. The first thing they do is to destroy you financially. I tried to go through the police complaints system. They are some of the worst filthy outrageous liars, “twisters” and suppressers of evidence you will ever come across in life as is the office of the Ontario Ombudsman. Police complaints procedures have become the focus of much credible criticism by university professors and criminologists who maintain police simply cannot be trusted to investigate police. Now, years later and after my hunger strike at Sparks Street in Ottawa my files were finally open to me under the new “Freedom of Information Act”. These files proved police suppressed records. It proved that 5 witnesses statements were destroyed or hidden from the investigative reports. Four were the witnesses at the premises. Two of them customers, confirming among other things the time the police arrived and those in charge of my business were threatened. The police report claimed that these women were causing a disturbance at my business and police were called about midnight. An absolute premeditate lie. The actual occurrence was 8:41 on a Friday evening. It was also claimed the police were acting on a Court Order. It was proven there was no Court Order. It was simply a business operating the same as it had every other night. and this bully cop threatened two defenseless women. These fact twisting vile police like “VOICE” and B.S. “TRUTH” lied and manipulated every piece of evidence then enlisted professionals to also lie and distort the truth. At the time they were written I was not allowed to see these investigative report to correct any errors or omissions. One of these professionals, as a smoke screen to “muddy the waters” claimed the stock was perishable in the next three to six months This was ceramic items figurines, vases, etc same material found in the ancient pyramids ...perishable or not he had absolutely no right on my premises and no right to my property. A stack of lies were compiled by vultures who illegally obtained $60,000 (70's dollars) of my business stock and equipment and records. These false statements were stacked in my police files along with the files of another David Thornton totally unrelated, different birth date, and dealing drugs with bikers. Also the theft of two expensive bicycles that were stolen by a person who was unrelated to me and certainly no friend of mine. The files were full of B.S. like this. You have no idea until you become a target of Canadian Police and Government coverup what they are capable of in this great country of ours. And the reason you don’t know is that our media prints only what “spills over” if that, and stories that can be no longer be contained and suppressed. Our media are champions of “safe and popular causes.” And they work with police to suppress the truth and protect the wealthy and well connected. (Google Search Mayor Lastmen’s crazy wife & Women Empowering Women). It did not bother one of these heartless bastards that my children and I built all of this together. Pieces of beautiful art work my boy’s made just stolen by police and converted to others. And we had had three acres of land so each one would have a lot to build a house and we would build them together. One of the dirtiest tricks police use against a targeted citizen is the withdrawal of the protection of law allowing anyone to commit criminals acts against that person and property. The other dirty trick is to charge you with what the other person has done. So, with nothing left I put two letters and an affidavit concerning the abuse of my boys pinned to a board on display in the middle of town in a small park area in front of Market Square. It was self explanatory. A letter from lawyer Mervyn Villemaire city councilor (his partner? the police commissioner). This letter stated in no uncertain terms he did not know, nor had he ever met a government official named John R. Scott and my allegations were “scurrilous and preposterous”. Beside it an original letter with his firm’s letterhead signed by him stating ..... “Today John Scott came to visit me in my office we had a lengthy conversation etc......” Obviously people reading that were shocked since his lying partner was undergoing an investigation along with the police force for bizarre acts of brutality and cover-up. So, who should arrive to harass me? None other than Peter Foy who had three month earlier stolen my business by threats. So, after he threatened to arrest peaceful citizens reading this board he threatened to arrest me for “displaying obscene material”. I told him “three months ago you illegally took my business now you’re threatening to arrest me for displaying obscene material; you’re joking”? The idiot arrested me and held me for about three hours. Then he changed the charge to “causing a disturbance by impeding pedestrians.” I protested but to no avail. So, we go to trial in Kitchener. The judge from Guelph affectionately known as “Hanging Howitt” and the prosecutor? None other that the senior Crown Attorney Owen Haw who prosecutes murders etc., suppressing the abuse of my children for the client of the father-in-law of the local Crown Attorney. Haw was the “top gun” used to get me for a “two bit” charge of Causing a Disturbance. They wouldn’t even trust the case to an assistant prosecutor up against an accused with no lawyer. So Foy gave his evidence. The area was over twenty-five wide where people, six or seven of them he testified, were reading these letters. Other people had to “deviate” around those reading the letters. He denied he gave the reason for arrest as “displaying obscene material”. But as I say the police lie as a matter of course and intimidate and coerce witnesses to do likewise. There was no significance to me that the reason for arrest was changed other than it was indicative of a perjuring lying cop.. Months later the relevance of his filthy lies became abundantly manifest as I read the Criminal Code. "No person shall be arrested for displaying obscene material without the written consent of the Attorney General.” The arrest no matter what the material, was illegal ab initio (as from the beginning). The arrest by this filthy liar was prima facie illegal. More was added to my “hard knocks” legal education. I was trying to get back what my kids and I had worked for, having actually believed at that time in our judicial system. So, I said to this perjuring cop “That’s the impediment the means by which the alleged disturbance was caused”. Describe the disturbance that took place“. “Actually there was disturbance.” He replied I picked up my summons and said to Hanging Howitt in more colourful terms than I will elaborate on here “I have been charged with “causing a disturbance” this witness says there was no disturbance. What am I doing in court?” He could not put a B.S. “VOICE” or B.S. “TRUTH” legal spin on that blatant nonsense so he thought he would berate me with speculation....... “You realise if there had been pushing, and if there had been shouting you could have been properly convicted.” P.O. I replied “Yes I understand, and if I walk into a bank, and if I have a note, and if I have a gun, and if I say “stick’em up, and if I take the money than I could be properly convicted for bank robbery, but not if I’m standing outside the bank minding my own business!!” No matter how badly he wanted “my ass in his briefcase” that morning, the evidence from this perjuring idiot cop was that there was no disturbance. He was forced to acquit! That should have been apparent to the Senior prosecuting attorney Owen Haw when he perused the evidence. He had an obligation to withdraw the charge laid by police. It should have been quashed! Imagine the cost to taxpayers of having the Senior Crown and this Judge put on this “tap dance” in an attempt to convict me on B.S. like this when a man molested my kids, another had driven to my home and business (fortunately I had left 5 min. before) was drunk and told my tenants he would kill me, then threatened to kill my tenants, was arrested, had a gun. Was released immediately came back to pick up the abandoned car on the side of the road. I had just returned and not knowing what had happen he assaulted me, my arm in a sling from an accident at work, and the Crown Attorney dropped the charges and didn’t even ask for a restraining order. Why? Anything to further victimize the victim who they were determined they were going “shut up” about the abuse of his children. And what would that accomplish readers might ask? The destruction of the credibility of the complainant because they, better than anyone know that a conviction no matter how insignificant, even an unjustified arrest, and the bias that creates, will bring out of the woodwork the sharks, the piranha, the jackals, the vultures and hyaenas, who will twist the truth, lie and use half truth to feed on the wounded victim just as readers are obviously witnessing first hand on this board. So, “VOICE” if you want to keep ripping into my story from the 1970's then there is just the very tip of a gigantic iceberg. Now, the recent case of the bizarre judge that you, B.S. “”TRUTH” “PICKLED BRAINS” and the rest of you morons refuse to leave alone and as “PRICKLED_BRAINS” writes...... “Still waiting on the evidence that the poor bakery owner in Harriston colluded with the police and perjured himself so as to nail you for your gutter mouth rant.” Remember readers my identity is on this forum and my documents are varifiable. Well the “poor baker” wanted to nail me all right..... that’s called strong motivation. That is for some people, particularly some on this site, enough to lie and twist to achieve their ends. For others in spite of their personal dislike and motivation it is not enough to lie and twist the truth. This case is a good case study of both and a bizarre judge. There were five prosecution witnesses. Two defence witnesses. One female highschool student witness who earlier had complained to me by phone that she was being continually harassed by Waterloo Regional Police on some “fishing expedition.” was a no-show. Now, for the record this “poor bakery owner” Bradley Campbell of Harriston is a lair and perjurer. In my disclosure package were witness statements of two police officers claiming they could hear me using the word fuck from three blocks away continually shouting it through the bullhorn and in their face even as they arrested me. The exact words of Senior Constable Henry Heidinga in his witness statement were.... “As I got closer I could hear the male yelling “FUCKING BASTARD RCMP OPP ARE COP KILLERS. THERE IS A MONSTER FRAUD INVOLVING LAWYERS AND POLICE ARE FUCKING COVERING IT UP. As I walked up to the male, now known to me as David Thornton I could see he was using a battery operated bull horn he yelled FUCKING BASTARD POLICE." Now as anyone can see that’s pretty specific stuff. Excerpts from the Transcript The baker Bradley Campbell. IN-CHIEF Q. And when you went out, what did you observe sir? A. Across the street and down a little bit in front of, I think it was REMAX , a man with a bullhorn. Q. Could you hear what the man with the bullhorn was saying? A. Yes I could. Q. What was he saying and you can use the words he used even though they may be offensive to you? A. It was, very descriptively talking about the police, he was, his reference were a lot about “fucking O.P.P.” and the “God damn Waterloo Regional” and there was a mention about R.C.M.P. as well I think. A. It was getting to be well every other sentence so I didn’t count but it was very frequent. Q. How long did you listen to him for? A. I think I was out there for about 15 or 20 minutes. Q. Did you find the profanity upsetting. A. I thought it was uncalled for. Cross examination - Mr. Thornton. Q. And you wanted me removed from town. A. Yes. Q. Okay, did you want me arrested? A.. Yes. Q. Would it be safe to say that you were motivated to have me silenced, Removed, out of the way. A. Yes, I suppose. Q. Do you know any of the O.P.P. firstly in that area. A. Yes I do. Q. Are you friends with any of them? A. Yes. Q. Do you know a retired O.P.P. officer by the name of Chuck Dewoore (sic) who is also an accountant? A. No I don’t. Q. Aside from the swearing part I am asking the question, the fact that I would say an O.P.P. officer shot a native and things like that, disparaging remarks I may have made against the O.P.P...? A. No, I had no bother with your freedom of saying anything. Q. All right, does it bother you to have a demonstration in your town? A. No. Q. All right. Did you tell any officers that I was saying, “Fucking bastard, R.C.M.P., O.P.P. are killers, there is a monster fraud involving lawyers and police are fucking covering it up.”? A. Ah, no I don’t. Q. Did you hear me say that? A. A lot of what I paid attention to that day was more so the actual swear words as opposed to the context with having kids around. Q. Did you ever hear ...of a pyramid scam called, “Women Helping Women” or “The Muffin Club” where you put in $5000 and the top person received $40,000. A. I have heard of “Women Helping Women”. Q. Do you know of anybody in your town that were, was involved in that. A. No one ever said specifically, I’m involved in that,” I just heard it. end. ------- Now, It surely must be obvious it was the alleged shouting of the “F” word that was the “poor baker's” only problem and concern. The cops’ written witness statement is that they heard clearly from a half a block to three blocks away.... “Fucking bastard, R.C.M.P., O.P.P. are killers, there is a monster fraud involving lawyers and police are fucking covering it up.”? What the cop alleges “from three blocks away” Bradley Campbell could not recollect hearing that clear loud poignant statement from just across the street. -------- David Anderson works for Ministry of Transportation Examined in chief. Q. Can you tell us what you can recall of what he was saying and you can use the words he was using . A. He was downplaying the police, he was using the word and it was , “fuck” and I just, it went on and on and again I, like I didn’t like that on the downtown public sector so that’s why I phoned the police. Q. How, if in any way did it affect your work that day? A. I noticed it, it didn’t affect my work. Q. Okay, did you notice whether it affected the community in any other way that you could observe? A. Just a bunch of kids were sort of gathering around the situation and I felt a few of the things that were being said would mislead their type of thinking also. Q. And in relation to where this gentleman was, where is your office? A. Right across the street. David Andersen Cross-examination by Mr. Thornton. Q. Just a couple of things, when you say you heard this “f” word, did you tell police that I said, “Fucking bastard R.C.M.P., “O.P.P.” are killers. There is a monster fraud involving lawyers and police are fucking covering it up”? Did you hear anything like that? A. I didn’t hear it that explicit, no. Q. and you were right across the road? A. Correct. Q. All right but setting the language part aside, regardless of what is alleged was said in profanity what did you get from the message that I was trying to get out? What did you understand from what I was saying? Did you understand any specifics? A. The only, I heard you saying something to the fact how the police system was. That’s generally what I was getting from your, from what I had heard from your conversation.. Q. ...are you directly across the street from where I was? A. Almost right across. end --------- So, it looks like no disturbance on the street only the allegation, that clearly is... I was using the “f” word - Campbell the Baker- “ It was getting to be well every other sentence.” Then Anderson who runs the Ministry of Transportation motor vehicle office...... “fuck” and I just, it went on and on .” Kim Kalmusky OPP Officer .... examined in Chief. Q. .... can you tell the court please what if anything you heard when you came into the downtown area. A. ... it was approximately three blocks from the incident we could hear loud male voice over a loudspeaker with profanity, and shouting, and screaming. Q. What could you hear clearly? A.... Clearly? I could hear, R.C.M.P. fucking cops, O.P.P., bastards, government conspiracy” and that’s what I recall. Q. Okay and this was three blocks away? A. That’s correct. Q. Okay what happened when you walked up to the main street? Could you hear anything else? A. The, it was continuing, yes that’s correct and I continued to hear as soon as we were in plain sight, myself and Provincial Constable Heidinga, I heard “Fucking O.P.P.”, “ O.P.P. conspiracy”, R.C.M.P...” end Kim Kalmusky Cross-examination by Mr. Thornton. Q. ..... did you witness any shoving assaulting or threatening anyone or anyone arguing with me? A. No. Q. Did you ask me what I was shouting about? A. I could clearly hear what you were shouting about. Q. ...if there wouldn’t have been in your opinion this alleged profanity, would I have been left alone? A I can’t answer that, I don’t know the circumstances or situation or the complaint, I can’t answer that. Q. Here you see a man standing with a bullhorn having a demonstration, talking to in the immediate area 15 or 20 people and you don’t see any pushing, shoving, or any sign of physical aggression, assault, or anything of that nature or anyone threatening to do that? A. To yourself? Q. Yeah, I mean did you hear anybody say, oh let’s get go get this guy or? A. No. Q. All right, have you been instructed on how to handle a demonstration? A. Generally. Q. Could you tell us what that would be? Is that fair your honour? THE COURT. Yes, that is fine. You may ask her that, what’s her general understanding of how to handle demonstrators. A. All public safety and officer safety is the first and you try to stick together. Ascertain whether the crowd is a threat. Q. I’m sorry I missed that? A. Ascertain whether the crowd is a threat. Q. All right? A. By their behaviour, their mannerisms and don’t, you don’t have to take action until obviously, it is necessary and it’s no longer peaceful. Q. All right, so what was the safety issue. A. The safety issue? Q. The safety issue was the gathering of the people on the street and the youth. Q. What was unsafe about that ? I mean, you do know that when you have a demonstration obviously you expect people to come and listen to you and sometimes there’s 100 and sometimes there’s thousands and police are there, are they not there to keep the peace, to make sure that the crowd doesn’t get out of control. A. That’s correct.. Q. All right so having said that, couldn’t you have stood by to make sure that none of this happened? A. No. Because initially when we approached, Harriston, we could hear you and we could here profanity. Q. Now are you with...Officer Hydings is it pronounced? A. Heidinga. Q. Were you riding with him? A. No, we rode separately... ------- Now, this female officer claims she clearly heard from three blocks away, “R.C.M.P. fucking cops, O.P.P., bastards, government conspiracy”. She and her partner were in separate vehicles. Now, readers you’re the jury, since the judge’s judgement, bizarre thinking and behaviour are in question by the Judicial Council. So, these officers were in separate vehicles but came up with the same evidence; almost the identical words, so if this statement was not in fact uttered with all the “f” words, then they had to have put it together after the arrest. And that would be a conspiracy to fabricate evidence. Always look for that “ring of truth” in witness statements. Now, this female officer further states as she walks up the street..... “it was continuing”. The Baker..... “every other sentence”. The Department of Transportation licencing agent ..... “fuck” and I just, it went on and on .” I asked each witness if they heard the specific statement alleged by Constable Henry Heidinga in his original written witness statement that he alleged he heard clearly from at least half block away to wit: “FUCKING BASTARD RCMP OPP ARE COP KILLERS. THERE IS A MONSTER FRAUD INVOLVING LAWYERS AND POLICE ARE FUCKING COVERING IT UP”... and his female partner in another cruiser heard clearly from three blocks away. Noone recalled hearing that clear specific statement. Only "f" over and over in some context or another. Catherine Gorge receptionist - secretary Re/max .... in Chief. Q. He was outside of Remax? A. Yes? Q. Okay, how far away from the REMAX building would he have been with the bullhorn? Just approximately. A. Oh, I’m going to say 20, 25 feet. Q. Okay, did you go outside your business at all? A. Yes I did. Q. When you went outside the business, could you hear any further comments that the gentleman was making over the bullhorn. A. He said something about the police had a gun to his head,... Q. Okay and did you see what happened when the police arrived? A. Yes I did. Q. What happened... A. One officer approached him from behind ... THE COURT : Okay I missed something. A. Yes? THE COURT: One from behind, one was in front and then I heard you say he threw himself... A. Well, the police handcuffed him from behind, his momentum carried him forward into the female officer so they fell. Catherine Gorge Cross-examination by Mr. Thornton. Q. ... Now there were some words alleged to have been said and they are not very nice but as the prosecuting attorney said the direct words and you sort of have to listen to them and I’m sure you heard them before. Did you tell police that I was yelling through my bull horn, “fucking bastard R.C.M.P., O.P.P. are killers”? A. I didn’t hear that. Q. Or, there is a monster fraud involving lawyers and police are fucking covering it up”? A. I didn’t hear that. Q. All right, did you hear me use the word at all? The “F” word at all. A. No. Q. Thank you. Okay, I have a question, if you would have heard me say that you wouldn’t have withheld that from police? A. No. Q. So when did you actually see me and observe what you are telling the Court? A. It was about 5 minutes into it. Q. ... did you here me say that the O.P.P. have killed natives or a native. A. Yes. Q. So, then again could you describe what you felt was the disturbance caused as a result of the shouting? A. What do you mean? THE COURT: ... What was the disturbance basically is what he is asking you, what disturbance did you see that he caused? Would you tell us again please? A. People slowing down, people stopping, gathering of people, the fact I couldn’t even hear myself think you were that close and that loud. That alone to me was disturbing let alone visually what I was watching outside. Q. All right, so other than that, nothing else? A. Correct. -------- So, ladies and gentleman of the jury..... very interesting. Remember look for the “ring of truth”. This witness was there “5 min. into it. She was the closest. She was their at the arrest. She wanted the police to shut me up no question of that. She was prejudice against me and my loud demonstration. She heard me accuse the O.P.P.of killing a native (which they did Dudley George). She heard that but she didn’t hear "Fucking R.C.M.P. O.P.P are killers. I was so loud and so close she said, she couldn’t hear herself think. She demonstrated she was no friend of mine. How could she possibly have missed the “f” word???? - The perjuring Baker “every other sentence”. The Department of Transportation perjuring licencing agent ..... “fuck” and I just, it went on and on..... This lady was the prosecution’s witness not mine!!! So, the question is, did she choose not to embellish her evidence with the ‘f” word in spite of the fact she wanted me “shut up” and out of town.....in other words is she simply an honest witness with the attitude “tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may” whereas the other witnesses embellish their evidence with perjury not in spite of the fact by rather because they wanted me “shut up and out of town” That's what a jury would have to decide. Who’s evidence is the most credible. The ones who are extremely prejudice and testify with vilifying, inflammatory and exaggerated evidence as to what they claim is reprehensible language of the accused or, witnesses who are equally prejudice but wouldn’t lie or exaggerate no mater what, testifying they didn’t hear the accuse even once use the “f” word. Then consider human nature and what many people are generally capable of, and of course as a prime example, some on this site alone are indicative of that. Or as the judge himself in a better moment in the trial said in response to a rather long argument I gave ..... ”Well apart from that even Mr. Thornton, I think it is a matter of common sense that sometimes people exaggerate and sometimes people don’t always tell the truth. I’ll give you that. Karen Seelen EXAMINATION IN CHIEF BY MS. MACDONALD: Q. How long have you worked for the O.P.P.? A. I worked for them for three years. Q. Okay and you said that you are presently a prison, a security officer with the O.P.P.? A. Not for the O.P.P. when Palmerston police was in, still, in, I was actually an auxiliary police officer for nine years. Q. What did you observe with respect to when the police arrived? A. Like I didn’t see them initially arrive, my daughter was at the door and she advised me that they were coming so. Q. Okay, what did you observe when you exited or stood in the doorway” A. A male party with a bullhorn shouting things about the police and different things like that. Q. Okay, what did you recall what exactly, and you can use the words that were used please if you could, could you recall him saying? A. I believe he called police “bastards” and said that, he went on to also dwell on the R.C.M.P. as being the same... CROSS-EXAMINATION by Mr. Thornton Q. Well, there was, obviously there was shouting. I was shouting through a bullhorn and I was telling people things. Aside from that, what was the disturbance that you saw that was created as a result of that shouting? A. Okay, I still really don’t know, ... they were upset by what your contents of what you were saying. Q. So it was the contents? So you didn’t see me stop anyone, prevent them from going about their business or obstruct anyone? A. No, you were loud enough but, you were loud enough that nobody, yeah, nobody missed you. Q. But I wasn’t standing out in front of people or forcing myself on them, making them take a pamphlet or threatening them in any way? A. You were showing them where the pamphlets were but no. Q. And you didn’t observe any pushing, shoving or anything of that nature? A. Not while you were speaking, no! Q. Did they seem to be upset that I was there, that you could see? A. Things were, no. Q. Again and aside from any language that may or may not have been used, the fact that I would call a police officer a “corrupt bastard” or a “native killer”, words to that effect, would that upset you? A. Yes. Q. But as an officer or auxiliary officer for eight years, have you ever been briefed on how to handle a demonstration? A. Negative, no. Q. ... Okay, now I’m suggesting that maybe it wasn’t “God damn bastards” that you heard but rather just “corrupt bastards”? THE COURT: I don’t think she even said that she heard “God damn” unless I missed it. Q. Oh I’m sorry, I’m probably going by statements made..... THE COURT: So you may be okay with this. All I heard her say was that you referred to the police as “bastards”... A. No. I, he was swearing, I’m just, right off-hand I can’t think other than I know the word “bastards” was in there so... THE COURT: You may want to leave it at that then Mr Thornton. Q. Fair enough. Then..... THE COURT: I mean it’s up to you I’m not trying to tell you how to cross-examine .... MR. THORNTON: Right. THE COURT: I’m just, I don’t think there, up to now she’s mentioned anything about any swear words other than..... MR. THORNTON: Q. So, specifically then you didn’t hear the “f” word? A. No I didn’t hear the “f” word. end So, she didn’t hear the “f” word. She didn’t say her daughter heard the “f” word as she was observing the demonstration. Now don't forget that lying bastard said I shouted right in his face "Do you not think if her daughter heard it she wouldn’t have said “mom, he using the “f” word every second sentence and he just going on and on”..... just the “poor” baker and the Ministry of Transportation Licencing Official both said? Now, I had used the cop’s witness statement from my disclosure package to cross-examine all the witnesses. The statement both officers claim they clearly heard blocks away.... It was written in caps.... “FUCKING BASTARD RCMP OPP ARE COP KILLERS. THERE IS A MONSTER FRAUD INVOLVING LAWYERS AND POLICE ARE FUCKING COVERING IT UP. Now, as I said since I was my own counsel, Therefore I knew for certain this was just another police lie. Now when it became apparent no one else but two cops could recall this “clear” loud statement I was ready to nail this liar under cross-examination. But, then again unanticipated ticks. The prosecuting attorney having seen this was an obvious lie, though he was on the witness list and outside the courtroom obviously didn’t want to have him cross-examined so she refused to call him. I protested but the prosecutor has the discretion not to call subpoenaed witnesses. So, the judge said I could call him as my witnesses, but you cannot cross-examine freely unless he is declared hostel and that’s difficult in our courts. And calling a hostile witness can be fatal especially if you’ve never done it before. But as it tuned out he volunteered the statement. CONSTABLE HENRY HEIDINGA EXAMINED IN CHIEF BY MR. THORNTON Q. ...What was the actual disturbance that you saw. A. As I responded to the call initially from a distance of three blocks, I could hear a loud male voice which was very audible. As I got closer to the incident, I could hear the male voice yelling, “fucking bastard R.C.M.P., O.P.P. are killers, there is a monster fraud involving lawyers and police are fucking covering up.” Q. And you heard that very clearly in that complete sentence? A. I heard that very clearly sir. Q. ... would you describe the event that took place? A. ..I came close to you standing there with the bullhorn, you again said, “Fucking bastard police” and as I walked up to you said, “O.P.P. are Indian killers” again. After presenting lengthy argument with the judge concerning the ability of police to discredit anyone and subject them to suspicion instantly by disseminating lies through emails to other police forces around the world which many years ago did not exist the judge said.... THE COURT: .... Anybody one can lie and anybody can lie and disseminate lies, that’s what humans do sometimes. I accept that. NO CROSS EXAMINATION BY PROSECUTION. end So, the last exchange in cross-examination of the last prosecution witness Karen Seelen’ was this... THE COURT: I’m just, I don’t think there, up to now she’s mentioned anything about any swear words other than..... MR. THORNTON: Q. So, specifically then you didn’t hear the “f” word? A. No I didn’t hear the “f” word. About the Most dangerous thing you can do under cross-examination is to offer statements negative to your defence, to a hostile witness. All she had to say when I boldly offered it to her, is “yes you were shouting the “f” word and I would be “dead in the water” that’s why the judge was cautioning me. You can bet I was sweating “bullets” taking the chance she might say yes. I was at the scene of the incident of course. I knew the truth and I knew from the witness’ statements in my disclosures that the male and female cops were disgusting perjuring liars along with ....the baker and ..... the ministry agent. So, because I had not uttered those words that the lying cop said could be heard absolutely clear from three blocks away;... “three blocks away”... and it was not in this woman’s witness statement I hoped the odds were.... that she was basically honest and had not gotten together with these liars or independently decided to later embellish her evidence in court or lie. She didn’t. Even on direct examination lead by the prosecution. She was telling it the way it was. I knew exactly what the truth was and that’s why I deliberately irritated and pressed her for an unambiguous definitive answer;.... to gave her the opportunity to say she heard the “f’ word. The fact is neither she, nor Catherine Gorge, nor apparently Gorge’s daughter, those nearest to the occurrence took advantage of that opportunity to embellish their evidence or lie. And remember as these women watched me arrested the lying perjurying Senior Cop Henry Heidinga stated "I came close to you standing there with the bullhorn, you again said, “Fucking bastard police” and as I walked up to you said, “O.P.P. are Indian killers” again. That is what the judge should have considered against the credibility of the other witnesses. My conclusion is that when you balance the credibility of the prosecution witnesses and listen for the “ring of truth” the conclusion should be the “f” word was not used. Also consider a poignant major legal point;.... these were all “prosecution” witnesses and all bias against the accused. So, when the Judge made the ridiculous statement that he believes the prosecution witnesses it begs the question “which ones”??? Like the neighbourhood bully with four kids, two tell the truth and two lie. “I believe my kids!!!”. Again which ones!!! There are two totally different stories here. Therefore there is an obvious and major contradiction in the prosecution’s own case. To believe the cops and the other two civil witnesses leaves the two women basically lying to favour the defence. So, what is more plausible two angry women one an auxiliary police officer lying, saying they didn’t hear the “f” word in favour of the defendant to get him off, or prejudice cops out to get the defendant and a couple of men willing compromise their scruples and embellish their stories with easy lies... “he was using the “f” word” so as to conform to their friends, the cops, evidence? What, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, would you imagine “PICKLED_BRAINS, “MAKE_7000" B.S. “TRUTH” and B.S. “VOICE” and the most of the rest, with the exception of the Vancouver twins and a few others who have left the forum would do given the same opportunity to “work” with the police. Then there is the other legal maxim, supposedly assuring protection against the possibility of wrongful conviction. The element of reasonable doubt. Can any right thinking person honestly say after considering all the evidence they would not have a “reasonable doubt” that the “f” word was ever used. The evidence was that I was conducting a noisy one man demonstration. There was no physical disturbance or interference with citizens. I wasn’t even pushing my pamphlets toward them. Now, noisy demonstrations by thousands with bullhorns is permitted in this Country. Police at demonstrations are supposed to keep the peace to keep order not physically attack the protester. Hundreds of police association officers loudly picketed Toronto City Hall with bullhorns. Gee, I wonder if any of them actually swore!!!! How many were throw to the sidewalk and arrested!! Now, bastard is a proper ordinary word. It is exactly the same as illegitimate. Should I be arrested for shouting “illegitimate police”? You use whichever definition in the dictionary is the most poignant to make your point. That’s why our English language has so many synonyms. Is that criminal in this country, to use to convict? So why did I lose the case? The answer I believe is obvious and found in the other examples of cases Douglas has adjudicated. And in the words of the Superior Court Justice, Hill.... “Justice Hill sharply criticised Douglas in his decision released Feb.18... In his written reasons Hill said he was “unable to comprehend” the “path of reasoning” used by Douglas in a key part of his judgment"..... Interesting, I am in agrement with the Superior Court Judge. I had that same damn problem!! Douglas ignored his own comments in my case, “I think it is a matter of common sense that sometimes people exaggerate and sometimes people don’t always tell the truth. I’ll give you that.”..... But he didn’t in fact give me that!!! That’s the reasonable doubt every accused is, by law, supposedly entitled to. “Superior Court Justice David Corbett..... found that Douglas had “descended into the fray” and was seen as a “protagonist” because of his personal views. Gee...I sort of felt the same way since I was talking about judges wives, politicians and police, police officer’s wives, involved in widespread billion dollar pyramid fraud and corruption, a cover-up in the highest ranks of the O.P.P. R.C.M.P. and members of both forces “blowing away citizens”, trumping up charges, perjury assault, threatening etc.” And then the judges general underhanded conduct revealed in the report.... “The e-mails sent by Douglas were “completely inappropriate” and the judge had no business in engaging in a point-by-point analysis” of Langdon’s ruling, said Corbett....” “Douglas was unavailable for comment on this article.” said the report .... “as he is out of the country on vacation. He continues to sit as the only provincial court judge in Guelph,”.... Luck of the draw for me!! “Haw concedes it has been an uncomfortable period for the judge and defence lawyers in the city.” Just imagine how much more uncomfortable for a defendant without a defence lawyer to protect him by filing the rare “Writ of Prohibition!! “It is not a good environment for the administration of justice,” said Haw ... his rulings are continuing to run into problems in the Superior Court. In the middle of all this my case is heard!!! It was recognized ....IT IS NOT A GOOD ENVIRONMENT FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE!!!!..... and here I am with a highly charged political case involving corrupt cops, tainted judges and politicians without a lawyer to protect me from the bias of this judge!!! The significance, and implication of that statement in relation to my case is self evident or as the Mafia used to say with regard to a fixed race.....“Looking up a dead horse’s ass.” “Justice Casey Hill sharply criticized Douglas in a decision released Feb. 18.... Again, “in his written reasons in R v. Read, Hill said he was “unable to comprehend” the “path of reasoning” used by Douglas in a key part of his judgment. “Appellate review of the critical part of the trial court’s reasons is defeated by either a lack of discernible logic in the reasoning or the reasons proceeded on a flawed analysis by the court...wrote Hill.” I wrote before "the truth is stranger that fiction" I didn’t make this up!!! That’s the findings of a Superior Court Judge with respect to the lower court Judge, Norman Douglas who tried me. Readers, you be the jury, I think the judge is far too bias or maybe into Treasure Traders International pyramid fraud like his London "Bother" to properly do his job. defendant dave p.s. Now you have a glimpse of the reality of the system as opposed to the perception that those who have never been unjustly placed on this side would have you believe. Even Bruce Audley who never really seems to want to look too critically or too closely or too deeply at the system or almost anything else. I confess I was the same in my early days when I was just a simple businessman minding my own business believing in the perception of fairness that is projected in our Canadian Society and the same “it’s-not-as-bad-as-some-people-make-it-out-to-be” attitude with respect to our legal, political and judicial system. And I may very well have remained that way if my neighbour's son hadn't been unjustly beaten by W.R. Police and my children molested. It has gotten so bad in this country, that there is actually a underground system assisting doctors, engineers, businessmen young professionals and others unjustly charged and convicted and under “murderously oppressive” (suicide) Court Orders, assisting these victims to candescently flee this country and its corrupt judicial system to start a new life elsewhere. Unfortunately I am too old to re-locate. and besides someone must stay and fight for change. Re-read the story of the young Kitchener lawyer Steve Michael railroaded to jail by police on a false and totally unsubstantiated Domestic Violence complaint. Jamie Nelson 3½ years for a violent rape he did not commit. John Hudak R.C.M.P. Officer railroaded to court on a false rape charge. Many Canadian police like sharks will actually feed on their own once they’re “wounded” with the same “broken system” of “tunnel vision” that is ensnaring the civilian population. Read John Hudak’s blog. Here is a cop, an R.C.M.P. Officer that will give you, Bruce Audley a new and very convincing perspective of our “Great” Canadian Judicial System..... If anyone wants the story on that “underground” system assisting innocent victims to flee Canada or the link I will find it and post it. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 423 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Zzzzzzz  | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1107 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Typical bigot; the brain asleep. TTI board room's must be going frantic for this ass to be "running" all over the place tying to put out the fires. What would he do if all the victims would overcome their fears, appear all over the Internet, in front of TTI, the News Media, Cop Stations and Government Offices in both Canada and the U.K. That Bruce is how you clean it up. I think B.S. "TRUTH" is really feigning this “sleepy composure”. I think he’s pumped full of adrenalin or up on something that criminal Kippax (weapons, drugs, assaults) was into. Is it just me or can readers see that to. And he is one “heartless bastard” he cares nothing about the family losing $10,000 from their budget and what their kids will be forced to forgo as long as Kippax the vial millionaire and his band of crooks get their “chunck” of this families losses. Take this B.S. to the U.S. you "heartless bastard" and I suspect you may not come back alive. Now, Wake up!!!! and tell the world why this fraud not in the U.S. yet??? or .....Why is this “perfectly legal” so utterly successful company not expanding to the U.S. TTI was supposed to be there last October? TTI is making millions, “perfectly legal-like” and your duplicating process according to Kippax and the rest of the criminals is infallible and the impossible saturation point according to your brilliant, infallible, mathematical mind can never be reached.... so what’s the problem??? Haven’t been able to find the right politicians and cops to pay off??? or are the 15 to 20 years sentences leaving brown stains on the back of your pants and the fancy padded chairs in TTI’s boardrooms??? Hey just looking for answers!!! dave | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 428 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Actually, last October was the scheduled launch for the UK (which by the way was successful as planned), not the US. Can somebody grab this guy his meds...his inability to bring down this perfectly legal business appears to have gotten him all riled up. Don't worry Dave...it's not your fault your a moron and can't understand network marketing if your life depended on it...oh, wait a minute...I guess it IS your fault...but feel free to blame the "corrupt" government for turning you into the fool that you are.  God bless. | ||
| wmmw (wmmw) Intermediate Member Username: wmmw Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.36.130.0 |
To all- Is This a Pyramid or a Legitimate MLM? By Jeffrey A. Babener © 2003 The Inevitable Question OK, you have either been recruited for a network marketing opportunity or you are the one doing the recruiting. Inevitably, this question will come up: Is this a pyramid scheme or a legitimate business opportunity? This Tuna's for Selling A Checklist 1. Product and Price 2. No Investment Required 3. Purchase and Inventory Requirements 4. Sales Commissions Sources 5. Buy-Back Policy 6. Retail Sales 7. Active Role for Distributors 8. Earnings Misrepresentations 9. Good Training Although this is a complex legal area, a simple story draws a clear line in the sand. Party No. 1 sells Party No. 2 a case of cans of tuna fish for $10. Party No. 2 sells the same case to No. 3 for $20 and so on until No. 9 sells the case to No. 10 for $500. No. 10 opens the case and opens one of the cans, which turns out to be rancid. He goes back to No. 9 who refers him to No. 8 and so on until No. 10 goes to No. 1 to complain. "I have major problem," he says. "So, what's your problem?" says No. 1. "Well," says No. 10, "the tuna is rancid, it's inedible." "So, what's your problem," No. 1 says again. No. 10 says, "Like I said, this tuna is no good." "Well," says No. 1, "the way I see it, you don't really have a problem." "What do you mean?" says No. 10, "this stuff is worthless." "You don't understand," said No. 1, "this tuna is for selling, it's not for eating!" And there lies the difference. Distributors in a network marketing program that are merely buying product to buy into the deal as opposed to an intention of really making a market for it, are really working a pyramid scheme, not a legitimate direct selling business. Remember, when you offer this opportunity to your next-door neighbor or your best friend, it's your credibility that's going to be on the line for years to come. What to Look for - A Checklist So, what do you look for with respect to legitimacy vs. pyramid? Here's a good checklist to consider. Product and Price Does the company offer a high quality product for which there is a strong demand in the real world marketplace? Is the product fairly priced and priced competitively with similar products? Can the product be demonstrated, and does it stand out when you show it to friends? Is the product proprietary to the company, and available only through its distributors? (Have you ever noticed that you can't buy Avon products in stores or Shaklee vitamins at pharmacies?) Is it backed up with a customer satisfaction guarantee? Is post-sales service or customer assistance available? Do the people who participate in the program buy the product enthusiastically based on its own merits, even if they don't participate in the compensation program? Second, No Investment Requirement Can you participate in the company's program without having to make any investment other than purchasing a sales kit or demonstration materials sold at company cost? Third, Look at Purchase and Inventory Requirements Can you become a distributor or sales representative without having to fulfill a minimum up-front purchase or inventory requirement? (When you are pitched to put thousands of dollars of inventory at the very beginning, run fast in the opposite direction.) Does the company's compensation plan discourage inventory loading? Garages and backrooms filled with product serve no useful purpose to anyone. Fourth, Look at the Sales Commissions Sources Are sales commissions paid only on actual products or services sold through distributors in the network to the end-user or ultimate consumer? (This means that products don't end up in basements and closets. They are used, because they have genuine value.) Does the compensation plan avoid paying commissions or bonuses for the mere act of sponsoring or recruiting? (If it pays headhunting fees, it is illegal.) Fifth, Check the Buy-Back Policy Will the company buy back inventory and sales kit materials from distributors who cancel their participation in the program, as long as these items are in resalable condition? (This policy is required in states that have adopted multilevel distribution statutes.) Sixth and Very Important, Look for Retail Sales Is there an emphasis on actual retail sales to end-consumers? Can the company demonstrate efforts to market products to the ultimate consumer? Do the company's distributors have ongoing retailing requirements to qualify for commissions? What is a "retail sale?" The industry and many MLM statutes include both sales to nonparticipants and purchases in reasonable amounts for personal use by distributors. Some regulatory groups, including the FTC, have historically rejected personal use as a legitimate retail sale. Stay tuned as this debate continues. The legislative trend is definitely supportive of the industry position. Seventh, Expect an Active and not Passive Role for Distributors Are distributors in the company required to actively participate in the development and management of their networks? (Many of the MLM statutes require that distributors perform bona fide, supervisory, distributing, selling, or soliciting functions in moving product to the ultimate consumer.) Eighth, Watch Out for Earnings Misrepresentations Do the company's literature and training materials scrupulously avoid claims of income potential that is promises of specific income levels other than demonstrations of verifiable income levels within its program? (The Federal Trade Commission, attorneys general, and postal inspectors all have their eyes on the matter of earnings representations. The acceptable approach emerging is that there should be no earnings representations unless they are based on a verifiable track record of the average earnings of distributors. For instance, a company should have statistics to show the percentage of active distributors and the average earnings of active distributors.) Finally, Look for Good Training Does the company offer its independent distributors solid training opportunities in sales and recruitment? Are different levels of training offered to match the increasing levels of experience and responsibilities of distributors? The Journey Begins OK, is this the end of your journey? Obviously not. You have now looked at some legal issues and its time to move on to some solid business analysis. But it's a great start. Jeffrey A. Babener Babener & Associates 121 SW Morrison, Suite 1020 Portland, OR 97204 Jeffrey A. Babener, the principal attorney in the Portland, Oregon law firm of Babener & Associates, represents many of the leading direct selling companies in the United States and abroad. www.mlmlegal.com | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 438 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Good thing we covered all this months ago. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1123 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
"Susanna Friedl susanna@garygoodyear.com Thursday, September 1, 2005 9:22 a.m. RE:TTI FRAUD Hi David, We have inquired into Treasure Trader's, and have been advised that the organization is currently under investigation by the RCMP. We respectfully ask for your patience while they conduct their investigation. Our office will be in contact with you as we receive any news relevant to this issue. Have a great day! | ||
| wmmw (wmmw) Intermediate Member Username: wmmw Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.36.147.67 |
To all, mainly Pro-TTI... Voiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice, You are DODGING the questions again. Answer the simple questions. No more spin doctoring!!! Still waiting that YOU, the so-called TTI specialist, give a CLEAR and SIMPLE answer to a very simple question for ONLY ONE sale of a Gem Pack in $ and %. 1- Suggested Retail price: ? = 100% 2- Wholesale price: ? 3- Retail profit (1-2): ? 4- Bonuses on downline: ? 5- Other overrides (car-house-etc.): ? Total Payout to distributors (3+4+5): ? I want that everybody here understand clearly that I'm not against any legal and legitimate REAL MLM companies, since I think this is a great industry. But... I'm clearly AGAINST people trying to promote an illegal scheme to other people, and trying to compare TTI's scheme to reputable companies such as Amway or Quixtar. All LEGIT companies can answer easily to the SIMPLE question I asked because they don't have to wait for NEXT sales to be able to pay their distributors. They can pay them on each sale made. I'm just proving here that TTI is totally per se ILLEGAL and a CLEAR Ponzi Scheme, even if hidden under appearances of legality. I'm challenging any TTI so-called specialists to answer to my simple question. God Bless tried with no success. Another one gave us a payout BIGGER than the selling price. Ask yourself why TTI so-called specialists cannot answer this simple question anybody from any LEGIT company can answer easily without turning and turning around the pot... (Message edited by wm-mw on September 10, 2005) | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1134 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
The reason they will never answer those questions “WMMW” is because they are not a legal MLM. You give one person $1200. Your name is on the 1-winner-8-loser-pyramid-board the same as the "WEW", NASCAR, and decades old original "AIRPLANE" scam. If and only if each person recruits two more there will be mathematically and ultimately 1 winner 8 losers, if not there will be even more losers since after 10 days your money will not be returned unless your Captain feels a moral responsibility. If as a Captain you have been talked into multiple boards you will lose thousands. If you have the moral responsibility to return the money you and/or your “downline”will lose what has been given to Kippax. If the money is all sent to Kippax to be held until the boards are completed he will retain all the money from “broken boards” as a bonanza. You are never required to actually purchase a gemstone. A purchase order certificate especially without sales tax paid is not a purchase of product. Any knowledgeable credible lawyer or chartered accountant will tell you that. Do not be mislead by these crass vicious pro TTI or be “soft soaped” by Bruce Audley. A purchase order certificate is not a purchase of a product. This is twisting of words, smoke and mirrors, “flim-flam”. What do you expect from a convicted weapons, drugs, and assault criminal, particularly when his character was examined and found lacking by the Ontario Securities Commission in December of 2003 only weeks after this fraud was begun. Kippax does not dispute his conviction nor judicial treatment. Now, Bruce what special status and influence do you have with the government that the rest of us ordinary Canadians do not have. Who is the S.O.B. in the government you claim told you this business was “perfectly legal” so this nonsense could be spread all over the world assuring citizens TTI was legally O.K. ahead of an R.C.M.P. investigation??? Who was it Bruce??? dave | ||
| wmmw (wmmw) Intermediate Member Username: wmmw Post Number: 322 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.36.147.67 |
To Bruce- I know Dave can be a lot insisting sometimes but I really think we should have the privilege to know the name of the person who confirmed you that TTI is legal. Since there are millions and millions of $$$ at stake and so many potential victims, we should know who this person is so we can check with him/her his/her credibility. We should also be able to check out your sources especially when there is such an appearent conflict between your statement and the R.C.M.P. investigation. We know the R.C.M.P. agents do not move on investigations lightly and without serious cause. That's just common sense. They are not small town cops. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 452 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
I think we also should have the priviledge of knowing the name of the person who confirmed that TTI is illegal...oh wait a minute, I guess that's impossible because there isn't a single government agency that can stand by this accusation. Why do you think that is? Well, one reason is the fact that TTI IS LEGAL. God bless. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 468 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Is it just me, or does Dave appear to reveal symptoms of Schizophrenia? http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ps01.html Social and/or Occupational Impairment – he’s got no job and it looks like anyone he tries to get close to, seems to leave him. Obsessive Thinking or Compulsive Rituals – It’s very evident that he is obsessed with himself and his opinions. Regardless of the fact that his opinions have resulted in false accusations, he still continues to repetitively state irrelevant info. Irritability or Hostility – I think his posts clearly express this. I mean, who else in this forum but him writes a phrase like “YOU VILE ROTTEN SLIMY PIGS. I HOPE SOMEONE YOU SCREWED SMASHES YOU SO "GOD BLESSED" HARD IN THE HEAD YOU NEVER AGAIN KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR WHERE ARE. YOU DEGUSTING PIECE OF CRAP.” Poor Sexual Interest or Ability – well, he did have not one, but two, wives leave him. Overly Dependent Behavior – Before Bruce expressed his opinion with regards to the legality of this business, Dave seemed to latch onto Bruce for support and approval. Money Management Problems – He is broke and begs people to send money. What more can I say? Need for Institutional Care – We all know he’s been in a mental hospital, been to jail, and has had to involve the police on more than one occasion. Physical Violence – well, as he was being arrested for yelling profanity threw a bull horn, witnesses did say that threw himself onto a female officer. Makes you wonder if those rape threats were fabricated. Risk of Harming Self – I think we have all seen how many times he’s been talking about police eventually killing him. I think all his experiences could have easily been avoided but he seems to seek disaster rather than attempt to avoid it. “Self-destruction” is like his middle name. Distrust or Suspiciousness – Do the words “lying”, “sniping”, “misleading”, and “corrupt”, ring a bell? Poor Memory or Learning Ability – How many times have we have to repeat specific aspect of this business?...he obviously can’t comprehend even the most obvious things. It’s no wonder he still believes this business is illegal. This is just my analysis though. For all we know, he could easily be classified under some other scientific term that means “wacko”. Since we can’t really confirm anything at this point, we can just call him “Prisoner 1000325524”…that was your prison number right Dave?…but, I guess that would depend on which prison occasion we’re talking about. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1168 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
YOU WORD TWISTING VILE SCUM. WHAT LEGAL ETHICAL COMPANY WOULD EVER, EVER OPERATE IN THIS MANNER. THIS IS WHAT YOU DO TO YOUR VICTIMS AND FORMER DISTRIBUTORS AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY VICTIMS WON'T COME FORWARD. YOU ARE WAY OVER THE LINE YOU VICIOUS S.O.B. YOU TAKE EVERY THING THAT IS DECENT AND TURN IT TO EVIL . AND SIGN IT “GOD BLESS”. WHAT AN EDUCATION. I HAVE MET NASTY PEOPLE IN MY LIFE BUT NEVER IN MY WILDEST DREAMS DID I IMAGE A WELL EDUCATED PERSON PREMEDITATEDLY VICIOUS AS THIS COULD EVEN EXIST. Then again witness the “BS_TRUTH”....... To cause all this trauma to victims then add insult to injury by using God Bless is repugnant, absolutely sickening and abhorrent Again, have you shown you wife and children what you are participating in on this board? | ||
| wmmw (wmmw) Intermediate Member Username: wmmw Post Number: 331 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.36.131.24 |
To all- As we can see, The Liar and The Devil could sell their own mothers to get money. All means are good for them, including systematically trying to destroy someone, such as Dave, who is doing his best to expose their pyramidal and illegal activities. Fernando has made Captain 10 times and was honest enough to recognize his mistake and reimburse his victims. The TTI system creates more and more poverty all around in a minimum ratio of 14 to 1. The hypocrit men using the name of God and Truth as a cover-up for their illegal activities are very disgusting. In fact, when we trace them on the Internet, we can see they are travelling a lot to hold TTI meetings, mainly in Calgary area. So... they are "SOLD" to Kippax. It's evident... | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 478 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
What was that?...You sold your mom for money? Ewww...gross! God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1178 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
We both know "BS_TRUTH" you scummy piece of waste where you got the "prisoner number" from. I can't imagine you can get any lower than that, but I guess "expect the unexpected" is what anyone telling their story here should keep in mind. But it is interesting to see you are perusing my website. It's maybe possible something of good there may ware off. We're still trying to get Clarence Elkin out of jail now that DNA proves the semen left at the scene was not his. A&E will be doing another story in October. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 485 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Well, good luck with that! Maybe if you're lucky, A&E might even put your name in the credits. Heck, they might even sneak in a picture with you and your bull horn. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1197 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
You creep! Is there nothing you cannot desecrate? Is there no one’s adversity and pain you cannot laugh at and poke fun at. The wrongly imprisoned, the institutionally abused, the young people bankrupted, those driven to suicide, the families hurt by pyramid fraud and “white collar crime” even an RCMP officer dragged through the courts on a false rape charge his life destroyed? Even though you pretend to be on the side of police. The real truth is you are establishment. The status quo no matter how corrupt. You run with the pack, a coward. The more corrupt the more you personally profit. You are any victim’s tormentor. No matter who it is, no matter the families, how many children involved, no matter what the truth as long as some one has been injured. You, like a shark that smells blood are there to feed on the open wound, rip them to pieces to feed you own sick needs. And you do it in anonymity and in the name of God. Truly the profile of a WACO-WACKO- SICKO!!! Hurry to the computer Bruce, the B.S. “TRUTH” needs your honey dripping coating so eloquently spread. And that is the real truth dave | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
"Dave" - I'm just going on out on a small limb here but; if there is one thing that "TRUTH" does NOT need, it is anything with a honey dripping coating, eloquently spread by myself. Bruce | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1202 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Well he certainly needs something Bruce, to cover the stench from the cesspool of gossip he wallows in!!! dave ps. And are you so blinded you don't see Bruce, that you have joined the lynch mob supporting this sick gossip? All this because I wrote my belief on everything I have read that a company is operating an illegal pyramid??? This is what was done to the fellow who "blew the whistle" on the tobacco company, along with the physical threats of violence. (Message edited by gatordave on September 19, 2005) | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 165 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
"Dave" - Wrapping yourself in the righteous group of truly profound miscarriages of our justice system, is like you claiming to be a true Canadian. Yes, there have been judicial wrongs committed. It is one of the ugly costs of our freedoms. But you fail to see that your own head-long rush to judgement of "T.T.I.Co.", is a propagation of the very judicial ills that you claim to have sufferred from personally! I would think that you of all people, would be the first to stand up and say, "Let's await the outsome of the R.C.M.P. investigation before we make any rash legal statements about this company". Or perhaps readers are supposed to be asked to believe it was wrong to accuse David Thornton in advance of his day in court but, it is perfectly fine to accuse someone else. Have I paraphrased that correctly? Bruce | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) New member Username: the_truth Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Very well said Bruce. However, let’s not forget to take into consideration the “Gatordave Factor”, which (according to the logic in his posts) states that if any piece of evidence or reasoning does not support the beliefs of David John Thornton, it will be disregarded by him and whomever posts such arguments shall be referred to as a “lying, sniping pyramid fraud artist”. Then you also have to remember the “read-between-the-lines” message that states that if you retaliate with similar attacks against him, you will then be considered a “WACO-WACKO-SICKO” despite the characteristics he displays which supports the possibility of him being psychologically demented. In the end, we just need to accept that regardless of the obvious hypocrisy in his false accusations, he still won’t see the big picture. God bless. | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
"the_truth" - At the risk of Dave suggesting we are sleeping together, I hear ya'! | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1215 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
"BS_TRUTH" When you lie and there is no evidence of any restraining order, and the other lies and filth you make up to attack my family in the name of God and make fun of the sucide of my son and my wife's problems to attempt to destroy a person, you are in fact a dirty sniping piece of unmidicated filth notwithstanding you are operating an illegal pyramid, scamming you fellow citizen. And that's the truth!!! | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) New member Username: the_truth Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Restraining order? Perhaps you can point out exactly where I made any reference to a restraining order. Of course, we'll just add this to the your list of false accusations...along with your false allegations about the legality issue regarding this business. As for making fun of your family, in case you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m actually making fun of your unrelated postings, and not your family. Let’s face it…we can all see your constant references to events that are in no ways related to this business and for months you’ve posted them over and over. So considering your mental instability and inability to comprehend the reason behind why we constantly ask “What the heck does this have to do with TTI?”, I figured it would be more effective to re-iterate the irrelevant ramblings back at you, which would then help you realize how ridiculous you sound and thus ironically respond with a similar question we’ve been wondering the whole time, “What the hell does any of my personal life have to do with all this?” God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1238 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Making mountains out of molehills. tsk. tsk tsk. Well you TTI certainly have the advantage. Like a lynch mob, or swarming gang. It's hard to keep up on which one of you is sniping with these multitudes of lies. So lets play the semantics game. No by gosh everyone, it wasn't "BS_TRUTH" who made reference to a restraining order. I publicly acknowledge that for the entire world to read and ponder and if necessary lock me in a stock in the middle of the market for further abuse and public ridicule. Might I be forgiven for mistaking you “BS_TRUTH” for “BM_VOICE”. It was in fact "BM_VOICE" who wrote that particular sick remark. So, I do hope my little slip has been adequately addressed to everyone’s satisfaction. Next is what you interpret as mental instability and faulty thinking. My personal life has absolutely nothing to do with, nor any effect on the defence of TTI operating an illegal pyramid and your attacks totally unwarranted. However, pyramid fraud of which TTI is one, does, as any other widespread crime, have a profound effect on my life, the lives of fellow citizens and this country. A narrow minded person would not, as you clearly demonstrate want to acknowledge that logic. It is always easier to put logical people who threaten the positions of those in power and who’s logic will expose flawed, incorrect and dangerous but accepted theories in jail. It has been done throughout the ages and seems will not be abandoned any time soon in this country. Remember Galileo?? Now the following, explains why what I have written is all related and relevant, and for the record. All of which I hope will be retained, and someday perhaps an in-depth study of the true effects and costs of pyramid fraud and “white collar crime” and vicious people who gain control of our government and police might be written. And perhaps a paper written on the internet psychology of anonymous “swarming”..... However, I fear like pollution, little will be done to address it. The relevance is this. A horrible pyramid fraud “WEW” was brought to my small town of approximately 6000. It destroyed families and friendships. Caused problems in the workplace. Jealously and anger among those who made tremendous amounts of money and those believing they were helping sisterhood but found they were scammed and those desperate women they thought they were helping ending up in a much worse state. It turned ordinary citizens into crooks. In order to take the heat off themselves, it turned participants into liars as many denied being involved while others falsely claimed they had lost money or made very little. Strange, when it was going full tilt the ring leaders were bragging of the thousands they had made. So now they were turned into liars as well as crooks. Many called to the witness stand turned into perjurers. It was in my attempts to get at the truth that another appalling unjust system was employed; that of the infamous, and horrible Domestic Violence Complaint in which the most disgusting, horrific, frighting and venomous allegations require absolutely no collaborating witnesses, proof or physical evidence. Evidence and witnesses to the contrary, suppressed and ignored. Jailing is immediate and conviction a for-drawn certainty. It turned judges corrupt accepting perjury and evidence physically impossible. The police to cover up the extent of the crime and the number of, not only prominent citizens but their own relatives first subtlety persuaded victims, then intimidated, then coerced then threatened then churned out false reports coerced others to commit perjury then became abusive and outright mean ultimately committing perjury themselves. It brought the worst out of nearly everyone. Even the people of the church were not spared. When “push came to shove” denial, lies and gossip to defend and mask the actual harm done replaced truth and apology. The church, as it almost always does in major crisis particularly when itself involved, turned its back in denial. Once people got their hands on tax free money they did not want to relinquish it. The conservative view of “do nothing or very little it will sort itself out” and victims will bitterly accept it (Canadian way) the usual and in this case the prevailing logic. It worked for the most part, but it was not just. And one man refused to accept it. And the results of that are posted by the writer. And the horrible results, of posting the results of the fraud???.... the unrelenting retribution here for anyone to read. The same “WEW” pyramid recruitment model... 8 losers paying one captain was cloned into Treasure Traders International with the same mathematically predicable results. The similarities profound, the differences infinitesimal. Losers this time will experience the same horrors especially in the $30,000 “extravaganza boards” The infinitesimal difference? They will be holding a fancy piece of paper. If they complete a purchase they will actually be scammed for more. And taking that route they will have instead, as a sad reminder; loose gemstones of little value. Treasure Traders International is the “WEW” fraud with a gemstone. And that is what I am demonstrating. All of it is in fact relevant to the big picture; the picture I have been accused of not seeing. That is the big picture. The entire picture is the same misery multiplied by the millions of victims all over the world taken in that fraud and the pockets of the original “virus”, the gifting clubs, that still exist and now the many clones masked with near worthless products. Legally refereed to as THE PRODUCT MASKED PYRAMID FRAUD. That’s the relevance of it all...I don't want it in my country ........and that is the truth. dave (Message edited by gatordave on September 22, 2005) | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.75.150 |
Sorry Dave I forgot! Only you are allowed to assume, and presume things about people!!! I assumed that since you are no longer allowed anywhere near Kincardine and your ex-second wife, and since you are banned from using any voice amplifying devices because of illegal behaviour, and because of your outrageous behaviour and language on the www, that you were not allowed around your first ex-wife still either. I am not a legal expert like you Dave, but I am pretty sure you don't have to go to Family court to be told you are not allowed to go within 500 feet of somebody. Of course any of this has nothing to do with TTI. But you talk a lot about "character" of all the people you slam on this message board Dave, and we are just trying to piece together yours. I can't say its a very rosy picture Dave. And when you show such lack of moral character throughout your entire life, why now, today should I, or anybody believe anything you say? You want to know the truth Dave? The truth is, you know the truth already, but refuse to back down now, or you think you will lose face or something. Well let me tell you something Dave. You already have, all this other bullshit going on in here is just icing on the cake. Would you like some cheese? | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1239 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Making mountains out of molehills. tsk. tsk tsk. Well you TTI certainly have the advantage. Like a lynch mob, or swarming gang. It's hard to keep up on which one of you is sniping with these multitudes of lies. So lets play the semantics game. No by gosh everyone, it wasn't "BS_TRUTH" who made reference to a restraining order. I publicly acknowledge that for the entire world to read and ponder and if necessary lock me in a stock in the middle of the market for further abuse and public ridicule. Might I be forgiven for mistaking you “BS_TRUTH” for “BM_VOICE”. It was in fact "BM_VOICE" who wrote that particular sick remark. So, I do hope my little slip has been adequately addressed to everyone’s satisfaction. Next is what you interpret as mental instability and faulty thinking. My personal life has absolutely nothing to do with, nor any effect on the defence of TTI operating an illegal pyramid and your attacks totally unwarranted. However, pyramid fraud of which TTI is one, does, as any other widespread crime, have a profound effect on my life, the lives of fellow citizens and this country. A narrow minded person would not, as you clearly demonstrate want to acknowledge that logic. It is always easier to put logical people who threaten the positions of those in power and who’s logic will expose flawed, incorrect and dangerous but accepted theories in jail. It has been done throughout the ages and seems will not be abandoned any time soon in this country. Remember Galileo?? Now the following, explains why what I have written is all related and relevant, and for the record. All of which I hope will be retained, and someday perhaps an in-depth study of the true effects and costs of pyramid fraud and “white collar crime” and vicious people who gain control of our government and police might be written. And perhaps a paper written on the internet psychology of anonymous “swarming”..... However, I fear like pollution, little will be done to address it. The relevance is this. A horrible pyramid fraud “WEW” was brought to my small town of approximately 6000. It destroyed families and friendships. Caused problems in the workplace. Jealously and anger among those who made tremendous amounts of money and those believing they were helping sisterhood but found they were scammed and those desperate women they thought they were helping ending up in a much worse state. It turned ordinary citizens into crooks. In order to take the heat off themselves, it turned participants into liars as many denied being involved while others falsely claimed they had lost money or made very little. Strange, when it was going full tilt the ring leaders were bragging of the thousands they had made. So now they were turned into liars as well as crooks. Many called to the witness stand turned into perjurers. It was in my attempts to get at the truth that another appalling unjust system was employed; that of the infamous, and horrible Domestic Violence Complaint in which the most disgusting, horrific, frighting and venomous allegations require absolutely no collaborating witnesses, proof or physical evidence. Evidence and witnesses to the contrary, suppressed and ignored. Jailing is immediate and conviction a for-drawn certainty. It turned judges corrupt accepting perjury and evidence physically impossible. The police to cover up the extent of the crime and the number of, not only prominent citizens but their own relatives first subtlety persuaded victims, then intimidated, then coerced then threatened then churned out false reports coerced others to commit perjury then became abusive and outright mean ultimately committing perjury themselves. It brought the worst out of nearly everyone. Even the people of the church were not spared. When “push came to shove” denial, lies and gossip to defend and mask the actual harm done replaced truth and apology. The church, as it almost always does in major crisis particularly when itself involved, turned its back in denial. Once people got their hands on tax free money they did not want to relinquish it. The conservative view of “do nothing or very little it will sort itself out” and victims will bitterly accept it (Canadian way) the usual and in this case the prevailing logic. It worked for the most part, but it was not just. And one man refused to accept it. And the results of that are posted by the writer. And the horrible results, of posting the results of the fraud???.... the unrelenting retribution here for anyone to read. The same “WEW” pyramid recruitment model... 8 losers paying one captain was cloned into Treasure Traders International with the same mathematically predicable results. The similarities profound, the differences infinitesimal. Losers this time will experience the same horrors especially in the $30,000 “extravaganza boards” The infinitesimal difference? They will be holding a fancy piece of paper. If they complete a purchase they will actually be scammed for more. And taking that route they will have instead, as a sad reminder; loose gemstones of little value. Treasure Traders International is the “WEW” fraud with a gemstone. And that is what I am demonstrating. All of it is in fact relevant to the big picture; the picture I have been accused of not seeing. That is the big picture. The entire picture is the same misery multiplied by the millions of victims all over the world taken in that fraud and the pockets of the original “virus”, the gifting clubs, that still exist and now the many clones masked with near worthless products. Legally refereed to as THE PRODUCT MASKED PYRAMID FRAUD. That’s the relevance of it all...I don't want it in my country ........and that is the truth. dave | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1240 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
To readers: this is one sick vicious individual. The point I made was I was never held in jail on a contempt on a family court matter in my life nor have I even been in a family court in my life. That, like the filthy lies this individual calling himself “THE_TRUTH” and justifying this filth with God bless, a prosecuting attorney knowing this was a lie told that to a superior court judge. Who knows who this sick individual is billing himself as “THE_TRUTH” or who he may be conspiring with other than the obvious creeps on this board.. But he is certainly fixated on me and my family. Now, my wife under oath testified I had never hit her or ever been violent to her in over twenty years, but admitted hitting me. The night of my arrest... and again you can’t get through to this sick bigot, she said “there was no assault, no threat, no contact, no words exchanged, I am not afraid of my husband.” It was a person like this one who overpowered and coerced her with fear to lie to save the prominent people and the relatives of police officers in my town involved in this pyramid fraud. By the Captain’s own admission on this forum police and a judge are involved in this pyramid fraud as well. It must be apparent by what’s on this board just how far these people led by a criminal President of this company Alan Kippax with a record of assault and weapons will go against former distributors who try to tell there stories. I saw her video taped interview. I feel sorry for her for the mess people like this got her into. This person could be her corrupt lawyer who got her into this fraud, anybody, certainly people in TTI were in the last pyramid. fraud. ........ and that’s the truth dave | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.75.150 |
Dave, Resorting to wmmw's tactics makes you look silly, no need to copy and paste. Dave, if you are not considered a danger to your ex-wife, why are you not allowed near her? Dave, do you not acknowledge that mental abuse of a spouse is still abuse? Two very simple questions you keep ignoring. Why? | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1258 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
First “VOICE” it’s really none of your tormenting gossiping business. Secondly for the record and for readers looking for truth not an excuse to harass. There are two parts to this. First, I was not allowed to go into my entire community because Alex Nichols and the perjuring punk cop OPP Brad Smith conspired to put perjured evidence before a Justice of the Peace that I threatened to rape my wife. It was a total surprise when he said that to the J.P. and I did not yet have the disclosure showing the police officer’s notebook stating Nichols lied and two full reports that I was with the police at the time and this allegation was an after thought he dreamed up half hour after he got home and the original police officers at the scene discredited and disregarded it a month before. Put yourself in that position. There is absolutely no proof. No witnesses, not even your wife’s collaboration. Just your wife’s boyfriend’s unsubstantiated statement that you threatened to rape your wife. With you locked up he gets your home, the business you built, your tools, all your private papers, jewellery, any money in your apartment. Root through anything. Receipts proving ownership of anything, your cloths he and your wife can get rid of most of, because you can’t prove anything. He can break anything of yours because you cannot prove it wasn’t broken before. Destroy and steal anything while you’re safely in jail. Steal anything generic you can’t prove. A total rape of every personal thing you own and have accumulated over your entire life. Your collections, stamps cards everything. All he says is you threatened to rape your wife. You protest you did not say that at all. There are no other witnesses. Your not before a judge. You can be in front of the stupidest J.P. They require no training. The days of It's “his word against yours” is gone in a domestic violence complaint. This isn’t even your wife. It is her vindictive boyfriend. And once he lies she either goes along with it or he goes to jail for perjury. That’s the choice this lying bastard left my wife with. First he lied on record then he told her. As long as there is a woman involved a boyfriend can point his finger at the husband and the husband goes straight to jail. Can you see the power especially if you don’t know they’re involved and he has the advantage to plan and set you up in a surprise at his terms? What kind of justice is this. It is exactly the “Witches of Salem”. The difference there, you were destroyed in days, not piece by piece for years. And when you try to say you didn’t do this, you’re subjected to what you see is in the record on this forum. After my case I was allowed back into my community but 100 metres from the home and business I built. I am not allowed to even look at my 10 years of craftsmanship restoring an 1865 building. I can’t even enjoy the park across the road or listen to the Saturday night band there. The order to stay away is given to women like candy. She simply, even goes ex-parte and asks for an order to keep her husband away and can say anything. Even if it’s obvious she lying as long as it's stated. That’s all they want. To be fair there are a few judges who have stood up against this system and have been more demanding but that is the very rare exception and usually reported as newsworthy. And the question, mental abuse??? Yes, mental abuse is abuse. I have experienced it in so many horrible ways but it is not criminal and you can’t charge you wife for it unless it is a direct threat against your life and you can prove it. A woman does not have to prove a threat against her life. She only has to say it!!! And that’s the difference....... and that’s the truth And the question readers. If this happened to you, what would you do??? | ||
| the_truth_ (the_truth_) New member Username: the_truth_ Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.129.7 |
To Pro-TTI You should do like me and open your eyes. God has just opened my eyes and I'm now on the other side. I'm no more using God's name as my signature. I was blind and my judgement was darkened by money. I was ready to sell my mother just for getting more and more money. I had sold my soul to Kippax. Thank you, God, to have converted me. | ||
| pickled_sausage (pickled_sausage) New member Username: pickled_sausage Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.156.154.72 |
Is this cop the same Brad Smith who played for the Red Wings and Maple Leafs in the '80's ? Who could forget Motor City Smitty. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1272 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Toronto Sun Sat Sept 24, 2005 Video of beating helps send cop to jail Judge rips gratuitous assault on defenceless citizen BRAMPTON — Cosnt. Roy Preston will spend this weekend and several consecutive weekends, in jail for punching Jama Said Jama, an assault caught on amateur videotape. In a judgement blasted by Preston’s lawyer and the Toronto Police Association, Justice Peter Wilkie sentenced the 37 year old cop to 30 days behind bars for the August 2003 attack. This was a gratuitous assault by a police officer against a defenceless citizen.” Wilkie said. “The court must send a clear unambiguous message that this conduct will not be tolerated.” Wilkie pointed out in his in his sentence that an aggravating factor was Preston’s actions after the assault. Those included falsifying his notes, making a fake injury report and charging Jama with assaulting a police officer — a charge later dropped. He deliberately set the justice system in motion against an innocent man,” Wilkie said. "Had it not been for the videotape, the defendant Preston may have been successful. Anyone with even a modicum of experience with police friend or foe if honest will tell you that is standard procedure in police investigations. It’s considered “building a case” against the accused as opposed to investigating the truth just for the sake of the truth. This Great Country looks less and less Great, Bruce Audley and the rest of your “swarming gang” you have aligned yourself with, and my complaints gather more and more credibility. I didn’t have a Video, but I still have the falsified notes of the non-existent Court Order, the assault that did not take place, and the proof the rape threat was never uttered, nor one word spoken the morning on the day I was arrested which was later changed to a screaming threat, as falsely claimed and exemplified and supported in the story above. And I (we) still have the bullhorn (temporally donated to an organization) that has been proven cannot be heard three blocks away let alone in a moving vehicle, engine running and window down. And those witnesses; highschool kids that saw my arrest in Harriston; the women who testified they didn’t hear the “F” word ever used and the dozens of others nearby that also witnessed the arrest, and now know their police are dirty liars and perjurers. It is pathetic what the police will allow members of the public to observe if they feel they can get away with it!! Adds to their extrajudicial powers. Who will stand up for their rights, or those of their neighbour or come forward with information against police when they witnesses police getting away with beating, perjury and falsified evidence? Isn’t that what is observed in a corrupt totalitarian regime? Police openly violating the law while citizens are fearing to speak out hide in silence? The judge made that clear when he observed “Had it not been for the video tape, the defendant (Preston) may have been successful.” Is there anyone willing to at least admit to a reasonable doubt in the cases you are ripping me apart over, or are you truly just an irrational lynch-mob angry simply because I expressed my views about a company based upon credible evidence and information found in books, reports by police and prosecutors and thesis by learned academics. Having said that, now what has all this got to do with TTI?? Simply that I have again been threatened by a cop for exposing TII . It was at the highschool in Mississauga a few months back as I handed out pamphlets. I intend to return notwithstanding an intimidating cop who threatens an unarmed senior with his gun and bully tactics and refuses to give an occurrence#. The beaten up victim because of a video managed to escape my fate of an ignorant bias judge Norman Douglas I “drew” who ignored evidence and is himself before the Judicial Review Council. And judge G. J. Brophy who ignored the obvious lies in the police officers notes and reports and trumped up evidence by perjurer Officer Brad Smith. Again, Is there anyone willing to at least admit to a reasonable doubt in the cases you are ripping me apart over, or are you truly just an irrational lynch-mob unconcerned with the truth, angry simply because I expressed my views about a company based upon credible evidence and information found in books, reports by police and prosecutors and thesis by learned academics? dave | ||
| pickled_sausage (pickled_sausage) New member Username: pickled_sausage Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.70.45.74 |
Is this judge J. Brophy the same John Brophy who coached the Leafs in the '80's as well ?. We're putting together quite an alumni team here. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1273 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
I though it was worth a try but some ignorance is impossible to overcome. Just a record of a cross section of Canadians. | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
"Dave" - And so that we are straight on this, you are now saying that a cross section of all Canadians are ignorant? Who knew? Bruce | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1274 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
God Bruce I don't understand. There is no letting up. I am saying that no matter what, there is some ignorance that is impossible to overcome. some, some, some, some, some, Dictionary: pronoun 1. an unspecified number or amount of people or things. 2. at least a small number or amount of people or things. And you respond ...“you are now saying that a cross section of all Canadians are ignorant?” It appears you gave your password to that bunch to do your writing for you!! There are serious issues here. People getting seriously hurt. You have acknowledged that in you past posts. All you get out of what I just posted or all you are willing to acknowledge is...... "Dave" - And so that we are straight on this, “you are now saying that a cross section of all Canadians are ignorant?” Who knew?....... Yes Bruce. Who indeed? Some things need explaining, some are just self evident. So, all you want to do is debate some stupid semantics. What I have learned here I find really hard to believe or accept on a humanitarian level.. dave | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Junior Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
"This Great Country looks less and less Great" Personally, as I see all the stuff that goes on in other parts of the world, I can't think of any other place I would rather be than in Canada. If all you ever talk about is how unfair our government treats you, why the heck do you bother staying? You constantly refer to innocent people that are being sent to prison for crimes they haven't committed, but do you even bother to take into account the fact that a significant majority of people are in fact imprisoned because they have indeed committed a crime. Let’s face it, people make mistakes…therefore our government which is made up of human decision-makers will inevitably make errors. Really, what do you propose we do about it?...Do you expect our government to just let anyone off the hook when they say, “Your Honour, it wasn’t me…I swear!”? When the baker made claims that you did in fact scream profanity through a bullhorn, was the judge supposed to just ignore that piece of evidence? When a 7-year old girl claims that her 2nd grade teacher molested her, but the other 32 students in the class say he was the nicest teacher they’ve ever had, should the judge simply ignore the claim made by that one little girl?…I sure hope not! You claim to have been physically abused by cops on multiple occasions, but the other 99% of Canadians who follow the rules seem to get along just fine with the police force. Why do you think that is Dave? Do you honestly believe that they’ve got your picture up at each police station with a short blurb that says, “If you see this man, give him a good beating”? Personally, I can only assume that you are simply not playing by the rules and rather than avoid confrontation, you tend to instigate it. I simply make that assumption based on your behavior in this forum. Now, feel free to go ahead and continue labeling me as a “sick puppy” but I’m sure the readers can see what I’m trying to say. God bless. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Junior Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 43 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
"So, all you want to do is debate some stupid semantics. What I have learned here I find really hard to believe or accept on a humanitarian level.." Dave, what exactly do you want us to debate about here? At one point we WERE having a decent debate about TTI, but then one day an individual went on a bit of a tangent with an extremely long entry that explained more about his personal life than it did about this business. Each time anybody tried to bring the focus of the topic back to this business, this individual would constantly try to divert attention to topics regarding rape threats, the possibility of being murdered by police, W.E.W, suicides, and a whole bunch of other stories that have no direct relation to this business. Sure, you’ve found ways to connect your stories to this business, but suppose a distributor choke on a piece of hardened cheese…is that really a justifiable reason for me to write an essay on the consequences of hardened cheese? I mean, I could start from the very beginning and say…”One day, a young lady decided to make some cheese at home. She had found a recipe in an old binder that once belonged to her great grandmother.” Then I could go on giving you a biography of the great grandmother, the grandmother, the mother, and this young lady. Finally I get to the cheese-making and the government’s lack of action to prevent the making of over-hardened cheese. Finally, the cheese packaged and delivered, then consumed by the gemstone distributor. So after the 1000 page novel, someone might ask, “Well, what does all this have to do with TTI?” And my response would be, “In case you weren’t paying attention, it was actually a TTI gemstone distributor that ate the hardened cheese and choked. If only the government enforced stronger laws that prevents the making of over-hardened cheese, this could have been avoided.” Just like your stories, although hardened cheese may have been related to this business, it really had very to do with this business itself. And now all we have left to debate is the ridiculousness of your posts...or we can talk about cheese. God bless. | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
"Dave" - I gave my password to a bunch of other people? And you accuse me of getting bogged down in semantics, REALLY! At least I have not drifted off into the world of the imaginary. What password? What people? Dave, this forum has been for a very long time now, the forum of "How the World has Brought Dave to His Kness"! The serious issue of whether or not "T.T.I.Co." is a good business venture, has been eclipsed by your own need to tell your stories. Fine I suppose however; it makes the important debate of "T.T.I.Co.", totally irrelevant on a forum that was meant for exactly that. Anyone visiting this site that is interested in important dialogue on "T.T.I.Co.", has long since left. I already know you will mount a new attack explaining (probably in bold faced type) why none of this is your fault. I will look forward to seeing your scathing posts when I return from the North Country at the end of the week. Bruce | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1281 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Bruce, Bruce, are you blind? Every time I try to return to talk about TTI I am being attacked and answers demanded to what I have already explained time and time again. Then new lies made up and answers continually demanded to answer to those lies and "straw man" B.S. You people have asked me time and time again to answer to your questions. When I talk about TTI you on the TTI side continually whine "Dave your not answering the questions about your first wife and a restraining order (that never existed) and your second wife and the cook”. You sickos. That should be clear to everyone. I am trying to leave a record of just how vile hard-nosed criminal pyramid fraud artist can be. And you talk about people not coming on the board and leaving. No wonder, what woman would want to come out here to tell her story how her husband made a lot of money in TTI and in the euphoria and all these “positive thinking people” took up with a younger woman and destroyed their 20 year marriage. Or how it destroyed family and friendships and drove wedges between people at the church. There are countless stories like that. A bridesmaid actually sued the bride. Tell these stories and get torn to pieces by a pack of waiting jackals? Not on this board, but in my emails. I posted one and was accused of fabricating it, so why bother? There is truth and there are bigoted lies, before long they become self evident. So, the Great "I AM" Bruce Audley is heading to the North Country. Are you going in your aeroplane so you can look contemptibly down at the simple folk, the ones that are provided by nature for the intellectually superior, and the morally depraved economic predators to devour? And are you going to take your brand of the “soft soap” “brainwashing” message, “you can make a lot of money on TTI. Personally I think it immoral. The trick is you have to “get in and get out” and might have to hide from your friends for a while but it is “perfectly legal” in this Great Country and that’s the way it should be.” - The Law and Morals according to The Great “I AM” Bruce Audley. Now, Is it just me or does their counter attacks and nonsense and “smoke bombs” look like a desperate attempt at distraction and intimidation by showing complainants how ruthless and tenacious, and vicious they can be? And actually diverting from a TTI discussion while they hypocritically claim that’s what I’m attempting. A desperate distraction because their “pyramid boards” are collapsing all over the place as even the Great “I Am” Bruce Audley predicted they would, and downline after downline getting ripped off for thousands and P.O. and looking for redress. Remember Danbel, he was called a pervert. Even Bruce Audley showed a snobbish contempt, ridiculing and making fun of him. Seems Bruce can give it but can’t take it. Typical. “But then the “brainwashed” young women shook loose of this sick bunch and apologised. That return to their normal and pre TTI way of thinking was nice. (Message edited by gatordave on September 26, 2005) | ||
| pickled_sausage (pickled_sausage) New member Username: pickled_sausage Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.93.20.133 |
Dave...I'm jealous. Would you consider giving me an "I AM" title as well? It would be enough to make we want to resurrect some of those great Molson Canadian ads. "I believe in personal accountability, choice and responsibility. Not in looking outside myself to explain the direction of my life. I believe in grabbing the bulls by horn, not in frightening children with a bull horn. I believe in the United Nations and their constant validation that Canada is one of the most desireble places on earth to live. I believe that cooks should cook, bakers should bake and real estate agents should sell real esate, not be labelled as part of some elaborate and far reaching conspiracy. I believe in the personal choice to invest as I see fit not in intrusive government control to make these decisions for me. I believe that with Judge John Brophy and OPP Cop Brad Smith involved in the conspiracy, we're only lacking a Bailiff John Kordic here or a Court Stenographer Miroslav Frycer there to complete this retro 80's Leafs alumni team. and finally I believe the reptilian feet talkers have as much right to the hard cheese mountain ranges as the cheese eating monkey men. I am Pickled_Sausage and I am Canadian. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Junior Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 44 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
too funny...  God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1283 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
JUDGE RULES IN FAVOUR OF PYRAMID FRAUD VICTIM HANK DANISZEWSKI , London Free Press Reporter, 2003-10-02 03 Jan Fulkerson, one of many London-area women who lost in the so-called Muffin Club pyramid scheme, should get her money back, a London judge has ruled. But the lawyer for Delores Roberts, the woman Fulkerson sued for the return of her $5,000, said yesterday the judgment will be appealed. In a complex 24-page decision, Deputy Justice Clifford Reeves said although the pyramid scheme was illegal, Fulkerson was entitled to a refund because her cheque was deposited to Roberts's account and never delivered to operators of the scheme. "She was not attempting to enforce an illegal contract. She was seeking restitution of money wrongfully converted to use by Delores." He ruled Fulkerson also made a quick effort at "repentance" by asking for her money back. Fulkerson, a London realtor, said the four-year legal battle in small claims court was worth the effort. She said she has received at least a dozen calls from other women who lost money in the scheme. "It's certainly good news for the thousand other woman who got burned," Fulkerson said. "We've highlighted that it is a winnable case." ------------- The case was won. The crooks appealed and the appeal was tossed out. This is the precedent, and can be used against TTI in a civil case. They are using the exact same pyramid board. The Criminal Law and the "standard of proof is much higher than civil law." Civil law requires only to prove "reasonable and probable" not "beyond a doubt" Also you present your own case without police and prosecutors suppressing evidence. Don't let yourselves be screwed by these crooks and their “Judas Goat”. If readers would like to tell your stories un-harassed by what you see in the above posts, and not be subjected to the string of vicious anonymous attackers; stories of how you were "ripped off" in this obvious Treasure Traders International pyramid fraud or the many other pyramid frauds and how it affected your life, and what you can do about redress, post your stories and facts at. ..... http://pyramidfraud.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_pyramidfraud_archive.html The significance of this win is potent. The work has already been done at great cost by this brave woman who spoke out. Fortunately, for new victims the crooks appealed and it has been settled by a Higher Court. So, take a stand and get your money back. Added to this is damages for being “brainwashed” into getting friends and family involved. The Founder of FactNet himself sued for “brainwashing” and won. That is why this forum was opened to help victims of “brainwashing” Unfortunately it has degenerated to this. If you were coerced into honestly believing this was a “business model” and did not realise it was a collapsing pyramid scheme you were mislead by fraudulent misrepresentation. You and your entire “downline” can sue these crooks. And don’t let a slippery Judas Goat tell you otherwise. dave | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Junior Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 46 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Dave, you might want to point out to the readers that the fact that Muffin club was illegal, and the fact that TTI is legal will make a huge difference in the court's decision of whether or not they have a chance at winning the case. Perhaps you might want to re-iterate to our audience how expensive your investigation has been to date so that they can have an idea what kind of expense they should expect to cough up for their court fees. Basically, if you sign the new distributor registration kit which fully explains the refund policy that you would be agreeing to, it may make it a little difficult to win a case when your signature confirms your agreement. But don’t take my word for it. Feel free to look into it yourself, but when the expense of a decent lawyer bites you in the butt and you end up losing a case, please don’t say I didn’t inform you of the consequences prior to taking action. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1284 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
You cannot contract outside the law!!! Rule #1 Well folks here is the great self proclaimed "THE_TRUTH" again, misleading people just like in their B.S. meetings trying to smokescreen and confuse. The fact any company s illegal or not is totally irrelevant in a civil case!!! All it may do is bolster the Plaintiff’s case and claim for extra damages. I would hazard a pretty good guess that higher than 99.9% of all civil law suits against large corporations and small businesses are against totally legal and many, many more times ethical companies than this one. Sears? Canadian Tire? Law suits for false and misleading advertizing, breach of contract, faulty goods, false claims and misleading claims of comparative values, defective goods, damages arising from defective goods, any number of things notwithstanding the company really is “Perfectly Legal.” Question - Were you, as distributors for example, led to believe that you and everyone in you “downline” have an equal opportunity of financial independence simply by duplicating what early “investors” do??? That’s a biggy!!! I am absolutely certain this clever bigot is well aware and versed on the law as to the fact that a company legal or not has little or no legal significance in a civil court, other than if you can prove that as well, huge actual damages can be awarded for getting you involved in an illegal criminal activity (damaged reputations especially if it interferes in your real business) as well as punitive damages as a general deterrent to help rid society of these crooks. These legal facts and all their B.S. they certainly don’t want to share with their “legally uneducated” victims so their victims get to “see through the smoke and behind the mirrors” These guys are running scared with boards collapsing just like the Great “I am” Bruce Audley and myself predicted, and that I say is both civilly and criminally illegal but Bruce Audley claims is “perfectly legal” and should be allowed as “dinner” for the sophisticated financially predatory “sharks.” But we can control the civil actions and complain like hell to the authorities to do their job in the criminal dept. and “stop dragging their feet!!! JUST DO IT EVERYONE. It is just that simple!!! gatoraid@sympatico.ca dave p.s. And the fear tactics!!! how much it will cost!!! The expensive research I have already paid for and the time and expense to get a relevant judgement was paid by Jan Falkerson. Precedents do not have to be exactly the same only similar and legally relevant. In this case the entire recruiting process is exactly the same, with the exact predicable results with a simple addendum, an irrelevant junk gemstone. That's what the legal system is all about. And that too is the real Truth! And this bigot knows it.  pps. When I was 18 years old I won agaist a huge corporation. An encyclopedia company. I had and "airtight" contract said a "bigmouth" bigot. I argued "I am only 18." He retorted, You signed a contract. It clearly states "non cancellable" for any reason whatsoever." That's when in my reseach I found "you cannot contract outside the law!" That's is the law. The "TRUTH" B.S.B.M. is trying the old intimidation just like that "bigshot" lawyer from the big corporation. He lost. Contract void ab initio (as from the beginning). Now, unlike some of my opponents I don't know much of that language, just what's relevant at the time. Did I mention "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!" (Message edited by gatordave on September 27, 2005) | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Junior Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 48 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Your long-winded response still doesn't take into account the fact that by signing a new distributor registration form, one has made a written agreement to the policies and procedures in place...including the refund policy. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1294 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
RULE#1 YOU CANNOT CONTRACT OUTSIDE THE LAW! Your bigoted narrow short-winded response does not take into account you cannot contract outside the law. And offering a scheme where it is possible to make thousands, even millions of dollars from a "down line" defined in law as "later recruits" without the completion of the sale of anything, and is clearly, as you have already admitted, the exact same pyramid as "WEW", is in fact illegal. Secondly, nowhere in law is it stated that a product makes it impossible for a scheme to be an illegal pyramid. Again quite to the contrary. The vast majority of pyramid schemes successfully prosecuted are schemes with products even products as expensive as recreational vehicles and houses. Thirdly, your narrow short-winded response does not address the false and misleading statements that express or imply everyone can become financially independent when mathematically no matter how big the pyramid, from the first 8 recruits giving to one captain to the millions doing the same thing only one in eight can make “7000" and far less make enough money to become financially independent irrespective of the amount of “hard work” expended. That is being proven daily as TTI pyramids collapse on at least two continents. And that’s the truth. dave P.S. I notice also you have no more response nor defence with respect the major point you wrote..... “the fact that TTI is legal will make a huge difference in the court's decision.”.... So, I guess we settled the fact it would make absolutely no difference to the defence of TTI. I mean, imagine Sears arguing, “But your honour we are a perfectly legal company” the Judge saying, “So what!!! your being sued for false advertising, you’re not charged for operating an illegal company...... You do realize Mr. 'Smartly pants' lawyer, what Court you’re in and what the plaintiff’s claim is against you??? Please tell the Court you understand that!!!” You see the "EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHS". Even the new tailor, the Great "I am" Bruce Audley cannot cover the "Emperor's butt" with the "imaginary yarn he's spinning." (Message edited by gatordave on September 28, 2005) | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1300 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
An excerpt “A total of 25 medical practitioners are facing criminal investigations. Ten appeared in court, one (is already) convicted, one committed suicide, (and) 15 cases are still being heard,” she told reporters. “It has escalated to some kind of a pyramid scheme, where warders were being paid a commission to bring other warders to claim and defraud the department,” he said. Check it out!!! http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=vn20050927060734956C869976 Now, I’m sure these sophisticated individuals had some really sophisticated written contracts- maybe not but pyramid fraud is pyramid fraud!!! dave FOR THE RECORD ps MORE .....Moving up the list to fourth place with 105 complaints were scams, including get-rich-quick schemes, fee fraud, chain letters and pyramid selling. Concerns about general.... etc. http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rental-woes-top-states-list-of-consumer-concerns/2005/09/27/1127804477452.html?oneclick=true (Message edited by gatordave on September 28, 2005) | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1304 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
I was asked on this forum how I knew Clarence Elkins is innocent. SOME THINGS JUST HAVE THAT RING OF TRUTH! AND SOME PEOPLE ACCEPT INJUSTICE. SOME WILL NEVER GIVE UP. AND SOME JUST MAKE FUN OF THE ADVERSITIES OF OTHERS!! From the “Free Clarence Elkins” website. Website.http://www.freeclarence.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2289&sid=49638a7e855adb9b17d9d3cdba35919e#2289 Everyone!! We have found a match on the DNA it is an exact match to one Earl Mann! He was a neighbor of my mom's. He was convicted of Rape Robbery and Assault. The Ironic thing is Clarence retrieved the DNA by picking up the cigarette butt from this guy because he was being housed in the same cellblock as Clarence. (Unbelievable) If anyone has ever doubted the power of the Lord they need to think about this). There is a press conference being held today at 11 in Akron ... There is an article in Beaconfor L Journal. We did it guys! Now let's pray for an ending to this and pray for Final justice in this case...Thank you Melinda | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) New member Username: real_truth Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.155.85 |
To all And the real truth came from Melanie: "Message melanie (melanie) New member Username: melanie Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.194.130.13 Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 3:05 pm: TTI IS FRAUD..DON'T BE STUPID, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY...I DID! And so did a lot of other innocent stupid people" | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
So I suppose that now we are to just ignore the laws our government has in place and regardless of the fact that this business is still legal, we are supposed to go by what Melanie states simply because she says so…sounds a lot like the Gatordave theory. So where do I sign up to get this authority that apparently have been assigned to Gatordave and Melanie, which supersedes the rules that governs our land? God bless. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) New member Username: real_truth Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.155.85 |
To all And the real truth came from Melanie: "Message melanie (melanie) New member Username: melanie Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.194.130.13 Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 3:05 pm: TTI IS FRAUD..DON'T BE STUPID, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY...I DID! And so did a lot of other innocent stupid people" | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 77 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
I think we heard you the first time. God bless. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Junior Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.155.85 |
To all No need to eat a full bowl of soup to know if it's salted or not. Only a tea spoon will do the job. And the real truth came from Melanie: "Message melanie (melanie) New member Username: melanie Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.194.130.13 Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 3:05 pm: TTI IS FRAUD..DON'T BE STUPID, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY...I DID! And so did a lot of other innocent stupid people" | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 83 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Twice was a bit much…but three times on the same thread is just getting ridiculous. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1351 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
"B.S._TRUTH" You took no time at all jumping all over these innocent trusting, NOT STUPID WOMEN on this thread before I had a chance to even comment. You might want to watch what you're poking at here. There are thousands of victims out there and the only thing you have going for you gangster is that the victims are not yet united Now of course this further indication of the mathematical certainty To "PICKLED_BRAINS". Her situation is straightforward. The pyramids are collasping as matematically predicted and if these women were unfortunate enough to buy the junk gem stones then she relizes she was taken again. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 94 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
Sorry Dave, I didn't realize you called dibs on the newbies. I just wanted to make sure they took a look at the issue from all perspectives before sending you their checks in the mail. I suppose you prefer that I wait for you to respond to them before I make any comments? Regardless of which of us posts first, it’s still not going to change the fact that this business is still legal. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1364 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
You can do what you want "BS_TRUTH" But you have no interest in the issue being looked at from all perspectives, your purpose is and has always been to ridicule the stories, twist the truth and insult disgrundled "victims" calling them stupid and lazy. Simple as that. As I say...."the only thing you have going for you gangster, is that you choose to remain an anonymous coward and the victims of your crimes are not yet united. Your "Achilles Heel" however, is that you have a physical building at 2645 Matheson Blvd. E Mississauga where you might be visited by hundreds, perhaps thousands of disgrundled "scammed victims". Something to consider "big mouth" on the board. dave Gatoraid@sympatico.ca And remember no matter which of us posts first you are operating a cheap product masked pyramid fraud that is collaping all over on two continents as did "WEW" that TTI is cloned from as clearly predicted by police, on record, themselves. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 102 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
I simply asked Melanie, two simple questions: 1) Was it explained to you at the presentation before you came aboard, that in order to create profit, your objective is to create gemstone sales and assist your team in doing the same? 2) Did you follow through with what was explained to you prior to signing up? These 2 questions alone will tell us whether or not TTI lied or cheated her out of her money. As explained before, when someone explains the process from beginning to end, and asks that you do your due diligence before making a final decision…if you decide to agree with going forward with the procedures explained, but fail to actually follow through with it, then you can’t turn the situation around and blame the company for YOUR INABILITY to follow procedures as explained. By the way...you're still the "bigger mouth" on the board.  God bless. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Junior Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.147.181 |
the_truth Only one time is enough... It still can be cured... Ask your doctor. (Message edited by real_truth on October 12, 2005) | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1374 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
The point was not your big mouth but that you are an anonymous big mouth coward, You take absolutely responsibility for anything you post. You are a coward. You start off asking everyone just simple inocent questions then twist the answers into something never stated nor implied and then attack them for your made up lies. A dirty lawyer's trick , a dirty cop's trick, a dirty procecutor's trick and a dirty scammers trick. It all over this board. | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.74.26 |
"...then twist the answers into something never stated nor implied and then attack them... " Sounds like David John Thornton doesn't it? When do you think he will come to the realization he is looking into a mirror he created? I bet never........ Now wheres that damned cheese. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1377 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
You are still an anonymous coward. Hooded in anonymity like the KKK. At least I can look in that mirror with a clear conscience knowing I did try to get $11,000 back for the only two women I knew at the time had been taken. Since that time I spent my own time and money attempting to get others their money returned never dreaming the opposition I would run into from scum like you people and particularly from police. That was until I found out police and authorities are the largest part of these scam and vicious cover-up. And most of what I bring to this forum is supported by documents that can be verified. I may state opinions drawn from those facts but I put it up front. And I don't call you a liar against proven fact or simply reject anything you say out of hand as lies. Point of fact. Several time I was accused of saying these stones were not real. Other times in one of those implied statements "These are real emeralds Dave." Like I never said they weren't. I have always taken TTI's word as truth and unless proven otherwise or I have reason to doubt that these emeralds are from Columbia. They are I accept, real, but they do not sell in retail stores for 50% more that TTI appraised value. That is the lie. I don't just call everything you people say a lie. TTI claims their lawyers work closely with government. I don’t know that but I don’t dispute it and call you a lair. In fact I believe it without proof and have no reason at this point to disbelieve it. But TTI does not have a lawyer or lawyers in the government agency that regulates this industry. That’s a lie. The same with claims of the thousands of dollars many, but at best only 1 in eight profit by. Even Bruce did not buy your figures on individual profits. And without evidence to the contrary asked "does anyone believe it" in effect making out these claims aren't true or in other words your lying. I know the money that can be made I saw it first hand. Hundreds of thousands. I never disputed or called any one a lair over that or the written appraisal someone had for a piece of jewellery they had custom made. I might argue the retail value but I did not say that the written appraisal was fabricated and brought to ths board. But I have been told my website is lies and B.S. I have a police officer's report that said I never threatened or assaulted anyone. That the man who made these false allegations lied. But no matter what it is, no mater what the proof you continually say I’m a liar, without proof or reason. Objective readers can see that in fact even you people know that. You merely project these accusations for spite and so hopefully others will adopt it. What happen to all the cliches I grew up with that kept you in check of yourself. “To thine own self be true, etc.” That’s the difference between decent people and those who join in an unholy alliance to trample anything or anyone for money or just to win. I have seen it all my life. Like any conspiracy particular to falsely convict someone. Each knows the other is lying and pulling dirty tricks. The lies grow. How do people sit and drink coffee with each other. How do people like this trust one another, or associate with one another knowing they’re all liars? How uncomfortable. Never knowing if you are, or will in the future be the target of lies or make up gossip about you. That I could never understand. dave | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 109 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
“And most of what I bring to this forum is supported by documents that can be verified.” Actually, you bring forth documentation that isn’t even related to TTI, and then twist it around to make it appear as though there is an association. Sure, the documents themselves may be verified, but you make desperate attempts to convince our readers that there is a correlation between the documents and TTI, but the truth is, the two are not connected whatsoever. God bless. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 110 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
“I know the money that can be made I saw it first hand. Hundreds of thousands.” So it’s clear that if you become a distributor and successfully create gemstones sales, you can create quite a bit of profit. Not sure about you, but I would say that “Hundreds of thousands” is a bit more than what people make at their typical J-O-B … but of course, there are millions of other business opportunities out there that can generate millions…and just like this business, you still need to take some action if you plan to see any of that profit go into your pocket. It really isn’t hard to make money, it just takes a bit of work and commitment. God bless. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 111 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
"That I could never understand." That's not the only thing you seem to have problems understanding. For example, if you understood this business, you know it is in fact legal. God bless. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 112 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
“How do people sit and drink coffee with each other.” Well, for one, they don’t have delusional experiences that the person across the table is out to kill them or part of a government conspiracy trying out to get them. God bless. | ||
| the_truth (the_truth) Intermediate Member Username: the_truth Post Number: 113 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 205.239.196.6 |
“How uncomfortable. Never knowing if you are, or will in the future be the target of lies or make up gossip about you.” Welcome to the real world Dave. I think everyone on this planet who has had constant social contact with others has had experiences being the target of lies…it’s inevitable. Maybe in a perfect world where there is no miscommunication or misunderstanding, this may not be the case…but we live on Earth where people are misunderstood day after day…kind of like how you constantly misunderstand how this business operates and how current laws allow it to operate legally, yet you still seem to be convinced that it’s not legal. Well Dave, we’re tired of being a target of your lies. God bless. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1407 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
I have just spoken to the RCMP in Calgary. Was told TTI was investigated and closed down and his belief they are no longer operating in his province. So the question.... is TTI operating "perfectly legally" in Alberta now or has TTI been routed out of that province? Now, "B.S._TRUTH" "B.M.B.S_VOICE" will you confirm or deny this for the readers. gatordave | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 191 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
Another perhaps unrelated question? I noticed last week that the much touted "Treasure Traders International Co." Calgary offices near the Calagry International Airport, were now vacant! Could this also be part of the Alberta exit strategy? Bruce | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.75.116 |
Dave, perhaps you should call this RCMP officer back and invite him to attend one of the 4 meetings a week STILL going on in Calgary. Why? Because TTI is STILL PERFECTLY LEGAL. Perhaps another person sick and tired of talking to Dave, and telling him things he wants to hear? Bruce, they moved their offices to the south end, address in on the website. Been there for a while. (Message edited by voice_of_reason on October 17, 2005) | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1438 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Maybe your right B.M.B.S.”VOICE” about all of that except for the fact TTI is running an illegal pyramid fraud, an exact "clone" of the infamous Women Empowering Women pyramid fraud and like that fraud the "boards" are collapsing and victims are losing millions of dollars as we are slowly beginning to hear from victims. Now he did say the RCMP “closes them down” and they "pop up" again. And that there is “so much "white collar crime" they can't deal with it all.” That maybe is why you’re still operating, not because you’re “perfectly legal.” At least that's the RCMP's' B.S. excuse. But as I told him, in the last huge pyramid fraud, had the cops charged the cop's relatives, like chief’s wives, the politicians, the lawyers, the school boards officials, teachers, principles, church ministers, the judges wives, accountants etc., that they investigated and found were some of the biggest “players” in the fraud instead of “sweeping the names under the carpet” “selectively” charging and “selectively” prosecuting and intimidating only a farmer’s wife and a Tupperware lady in our entire area, those same people would not be promoting TTI pyramid fraud calling it “perfectly legal” as they did in the “WEW” scam. From the front page of our local newspaper THE KINCARDINE NEWS ...“....word on the street has it that seven local prominent women had been charged. “We have received some information on it.” says Constable Darryl Campbell of the Kincardine OPP. “But we haven’t laid charges.” Noone revealed the full scale investigation by OPP special investigator from out side Kincardine - (Peterborough I believe) Bill Sword, who investigated these upper echelon and put a “lid” on the whole town. And why not? Cops relatives and politicians were some of the “Group of seven.” The only person in the entire area who said anything and tried to get two people’s $11,000 back (that was just two people scammed) from a politician, still in office, Jan Johnstone of Kincardine went to jail on false “threatening rape charges” and prosecuted on several other false charges by the principles in the fraud and their close friends. Now, she’s a politician. Any enquiring member of the public from anywhere in a free society should be able to call her and ask direct questions. “Were you in “WEW” and were you investigated by OPP Bill Sword and do you know other politicians involved in that illegal fraud?.” Particularly the press in this country?????????? Now, are you denying the RCMP closed down fleetports or whatever you call your scamming meeting or is this RCMP officer a “bold face liar”. Many of them are you know. Many even unlawfully kill people. So, it really is difficult to tell the “good cops from the bad cops” and those that fight crime and those who indulge in it with white collar criminals like yourself. Or like all the other lies, misleading and incomplete statements that are TTI’s M.O., did you withhold that from your answer above. Did they close down TTI cells but like the Kincardine fiasco, cover-up the investigation of those involved? Independent collaborating information I have from Calgary is that many people lost their money. TTI was investigated, something happened, then like in Kincardine everything “went quiet”. Don’t tell me you know nothing about that!!! “Come Clean” and tell the readers the whole truth, B.M.B.S. “VOICE_OF_TREASON” well deserved now that distributors admit you work with police and at least one judge undermining the economy of this county and “sowing seeds of discontent | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1462 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Readers, I just called Phone Busters again. Contrary to these insistent, relentless liars and their pawn Bruce Audley, Phone Busters has said straight out, Treasure Traders International is a pyramid fraud do not get involved. They are receiving numerous calls. I repeat. You are a disgusting liars "B.S._TRUTH" "BMBS_VOICE" and the rest leading people into this fraud. No government agency has officially said TTI is legal. It has been officially acknowledged as ILLEGAL. | ||
| pickled_sausage (pickled_sausage) New member Username: pickled_sausage Post Number: 23 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.93.19.137 |
Readers, I just called Ghost Busters again. Bill Murray's still busy chasing that damn giant marshmallow and therefore could not confirm the legality of TTI. But he did say that he blew off some guy off who was hassling him and told him what he wanted to hear. Says he's being doing that day after day. Kind of like Groundhog Day. (Message edited by pickled sausage on October 21, 2005) | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1464 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
I actually expected Better. "P.Brain." Now, I am beginning to wonder why. Readers, I just called Phone Busters again. Contrary to these insistent, relentless liars and their pawn Bruce Audley, Phone Busters has said straight out, Treasure Traders International is a pyramid fraud do not get involved. They are receiving numerous calls. I repeat. You are disgusting liars "B.S._TRUTH" "BMBS_VOICE" and the rest leading people into this fraud. No government agency has officially said TTI is legal. It has been officially acknowledged as ILLEGAL. (Message edited by gatordave on October 21, 2005) | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Junior Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.145.64 |
To all As you can see, pickled brain is a great liar. As we can clearly see in this room, it is more than evident that he is part of the liars' team sold to and paid by TTI to try to control this room and minimize the damages. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1469 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
He certainly is one sicko "WMMW", either way!!! Readers, Call Phone Busters 1-888-495-8501 Contrary to these insistent, relentless liars and their pawn Bruce Audley, Phone Busters has said straight out, Treasure Traders International is a pyramid fraud do not get involved. They are receiving numerous calls. I repeat. You are disgusting liars "B.S._TRUTH" "BMBS_VOICE" and the rest of you, leading people into this fraud. No government agency has officially said TTI is legal. That is an outright outrageous lie!!! TTI has been officially acknowledged as ILLEGAL. RCMP are investigating. But the recent revelations of political corruption at all levels of government should give readers cause to wonder and ask questions about "just what is going on here." You must call and/or email the media, police and your politicians and demand something be done. Thousands doing that simple thing they cannot ignore. Tell others. dave gatoraid@sympatico.ca P.S. “WMMW” and readers, these pyramid freaks won’t be going anywhere near the U.S. the message is finally getting through. The attorneys general of the U.S. are P.O. with these frauds. This same sick fraud below is TTI - different name- but, fraud by any other name is fraud. "Jeffrey A. Augugliaro, of Malverne, N.Y., is accused of setting up a fraudulent business called "People Helping People" to solicit donations for the "American Cancer Aid Foundation" and telling donors they would receive free airline tickets, A cancer patient hoping to use the tickets to fly to a hospital for treatment was among thousands of people duped through the sites, according to Spitzer. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=172302868 This is the huge sickening problem of pyramid fraud, “Great I AM” Bruce Audley, you “over educated immature highschool debating snob” You debate with your flowery, semantic twisting B.S. while the real world gets hurt. With your skills you could have done so much months ago to help stop this!!! This link below is en example of people with integrity and “guts” (that’s intestinal fortitude for the “sliver spoon fed” flowery snob) This is what a news media should be!!! Read this it is TTI all over. The same obvious 5 RED FLAGS of a fraudulent pyramid scams. http://www.laraza.com/news.php?nid=27021 | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.60.237 |
Dave, When I called Phone Busters today to ask them if what you said was true, the gentleman that I spoke with told me that they are not supposed to comment on individual companies, that they are just supposed to collect information and pass it on to the RCMP and Competition Bureau. They do not do anything BUT collect information, so I am not sure how an individual there telling you TTI is a scam can be construed as being "Officially acknowledged as Illegal". And this RCMP officer in Calgary that supposedly told you TTI was shut down in his province, did you tell him there was still 4 meetings a week in Calgary, and 8 a week in Edmonton? So who has "Oficially" acknowledged TTI as Illegal Dave? Not the RCMP; when I called K Division headquarters in Edmonton and spoke with the Fraud Department, a female officer told me they were not Investigating TTI at this time. Same thing with the OPP. When I spoke with the competition bureau, I got the same line I did before...they can not comment on whether or not a company is under investigation, but that they would only post information on a company of it was found to be running illegally. Now my Lawyer told me it was legal. My accountant told me it was legal. The authorities told me it was legal. The competition bureau won't tell me anything......and Dave says its Illegal. What a dilemma...who should I believe? Someone with over 20 years of law practice, someone with 12 years as a CMA, 2 different fraud divisions.....or a man who mentally and verbally abuses women? Hmmm...let me mull that one over for a while. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Junior Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.145.64 |
To Voice Yeah! Yeah! Voice, we all know you sold your soul to TTI and $$$. It could still be cured, my friend. | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.60.237 |
Actually wmmw, I don't give a rats ass about TTI. My problem is with GatorDave. TTI is legal, and that is that. You can make money LEGALLY with TTI if that type of thing is for you. My problem is with Dave, a hypocritical, bigoted, hate mongering asshole, who uses life as an excuse to try and seek revenge on people, because his wife left him, and he refuses to accept any type of responsibility for things that have turned sour in his life. He does not give a shit about ANYBODY but himself. We can see right through it, and I will continue to point it out, as long as he sits on his pulpit preaching his anger and hatred to the world on the www. Dave is a Danger to society. He should be in a padded room somewhere, and I believe that will be the case sooner than later. Until then, as long as he targets his poison at the rest of Canada, I will pull back the curtain of his lies and hatred, and expose him for the monster he truly is. | ||
| capn_blythe (capn_blythe) New member Username: capn_blythe Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 213.104.241.143 |
....Hey voice_of_reason ...you heard yourself? "Until then, as long as he targets his poison at the rest of Canada, I will pull back the curtain of his lies and hatred, and expose him for the monster he truly is." Talk about the Pot and Kettle | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1477 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Now, While I am putting together a reply to this sicko anonymous “BMBS_VOICE_OF_TREASON” let me say this....I have lost everything because of perjured evidence from pyramid freaks and the cops who were involved. I am basically unemployable. However, I have been able to scrap together a few hundred dollars and my Christian sister has contributed $100 with pyramid frauds now being recognized as a destructive force within the church. Ministers are being fined “big time” and sentences of 10 to 20years in the U.S., while at the same time the involvement of ministers here is being covered up by the police and a corrupt Attorney General's Dept. Her minister has recognized the impact of pyramid fraud in the church and is concerned having found some of his own congregation involved with TTI. Being only about 6miles from the World Headquarters of this fraud, I will print up pamphlets and circulate them to students. This is where I believe we can make the greatest initial impact and they and police know it. So, I will send a $100 to “WMMW” to get this non-profit organization “off the ground” and use the rest for the pamphlets and expenses. Will anyone join in with a contribution. If the 50,000 victims alone scammed in the GTA would contribute $2 each we would be a FORCE!!! That is what the anonymous “VOICE_OF_TREASON” is “trembling” about. Now, I could have made tens of thousands in TTI. I was free to travel to “virgin” territories anywhere in Canada and the U.K. and devote seven days a week recruiting and scamming people. I could have easily “brainwashed” dozens of students into this scam, seniors, ethnic groups etc. I was a top salesmen for Great West Entertainment. You should have heard my passionate “pitch” to get handicapped kids out to see a magic show I believed in, only to find it was a dirty scam. I didn’t join TTI I didn’t choose to make the easy 10's of thousands. I have taken this abuse instead in an effort to stop these abominations masquerading as legitimate business . I stand on that for my credibility. Lets get these scammers and make of them, an example. It is easily doable!!! gatordave gatoraid@sympatico.ca | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.60.237 |
Dave, you "lost everything" because you have a big mouth, and a bad temper. You lost everything because your wife got smart and realized you were a danger to her. Your wife had already left you when you found out about the pyramid fraud. But you needed a scapegoat. You needed something to blame her leaving you on. In your sick mind, it couldn't possibly have been anything you said or did. It had to be some huge conspiracy involving police, lawyers, government officials, cooks, real estate agents etc. It couldn't have possibly had anything to do with the way you treat women. She left you for the cook because of a fraud right? Wake up to reality Dave. Nobody here likes Illegal Fraud any more than you. I think people running Illegal frauds should be thrown in jail, just as much as I think men who abuse women should be tossed away. I would even donate to your cause if I actually believed the money would be going to help victims of fraud. I am not "trembling” about you setting up a foundation. If you get all the people together who have come here and said they lost money in TTI, and think it’s a scam you would have about $6. I will agree with Bruce and say that TTI is a shitty business model. But not because it isn't legal. And not because it uses MLM as a distribution system. TTI is very legal. What makes it unsustainable is the fact that it involves only luxury big ticket items. People only want so many gemstones, or Big screen TV's or Hot tubs, before they give up on this business. The products are not consumable, and that is where I believe the problem with TTI is. But it is legal, and people can make money at it. And people can only make money at it by selling goods. Dave you are so pathetic. You are "basically unemployable” because you refuse to contribute to society. I offered a few times to help you get a job, and I could. But you refuse to work. I offered to help you find a place to live when you said you were being kicked out. You refused. Several people offered Danbel help (whom you keep referring to as a victim), and he refused. If you won’t help yourself how can you possibly even begin to think you can help others? I shudder at the thought that you want to create others like you. I am ashamed at myself for coming down to your level. I am sorry to every single person I may have offended with the way I have voiced myself on this forum. I honestly believe that TTI is LEGAL, and all the research I have done is REAL. I don’t give a shit about TTI, and I think it isn’t a sustainable company, unless they start getting some consumables. Unless you need a few luxury items, know some others that do, and can AFFORD to invest the time and money in TTI may not be for you. But it is LEGAL. As for my opinions of Dave; I think several others feel the same way I do, but are too “afraid to speak out”. Next year, the year after, and several years down the road, I will still be enjoying my life, my family and my friends. I will still be “depositing good memories” into my memory bank. And where will Dave be? If not in prison, my bet will be pretty much the same place. Spewing anger and hatred. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Junior Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.36.145.64 |
Voice- Do you know the divorce rate in Canada? 1 out of 2 or 3 so Dave's situation is well normal. Moreover, it was caused by pyramidal frauds. Please, STOP attacking his private life in order to cover up your own criminal activities. You could be cured yourself but see your doctor without delay. | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1480 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Thanks "WMMW" And "VOICE" what kind of temperament should I have, or would you have, after being assaulted weeks before, that police would do nothing about, 911 called with false allegation 3 times, your apartment broken into, your personal papers and effects gone through, find a wiretap on your phone and now some bully cop grabs you, in the middle of moving out because you went to the police station to ask questions and you are told you broke a non existent Court Order, broke into your own matrimonial home, and an unspecified charge of criminal harassment. You ask what act of criminal harassment, your not told, and given not even 2 minutes to explain, then locked in a cell your throat dry, you cough to near passing out and they laugh and refuse you water except in a filthy toilet or antacid for your stomach all night long. And you don’t know what you’ve done knowing there was no Court Order? The next day in shock told you “threatened to rape you estrange wife.” Remember “Bruce Audley’s analogy of a caged bear being poked with a sharp stick. It’s easy to judge when you make up your own B.S. set of facts. Walk a mile in the other man’s shoes. You weren’t there. How do you know anything you busy-body sick gossip. Regardless the main issue is TTI operating an illegal pyramid defrauding thousands out of millions telling them everyone has an equal opportunity to attain Financial Freedom. It ain’t so. It’s a lie. And my story is merely the power of what pyramid freaks can do to unsuspecting individuals. For God’s sake look at the lies and speculation your spewing out right now. I was falsely accused by the last pyramid freaks of threatening to rape my estranged wife. Earlier on this forum I was accused of actual rape. Where are you getting the information you are spewing all over this forum. I will get back to you and your gossiping speculation after I answer Bruce Audley. dave p.s. ....... If you think as you write “I think people running Illegal frauds should be thrown in jail, just as much as I think men who abuse women should be tossed away.” What should happen to a man who tries to have another arrested saying he assaulted and threatened him when nothing of the kind happened. What should happen after a female cop who witnesses the entire situation calls him a liar to his face, then half hour after he gets home he again calls 991 trying to put this guy in jail for something real serious, by saying “while you weren’t looking he came in the kitchen and said he could rape his woman and I better bugger off.” Then a year later while the trials continues sends the Crown Attorney a letter with more lies of what happened the year before he “just remembered.” Then what would you do to a woman who hits her husband but he never ever under any circumstances, even after being hit, even raised his hand in retaliation only walked away to another room. And never hit back even when hit by the boyfriend. What would you do to the same woman who would say there was no assault, no threat, no contact, no words exchanged, I am not afraid of my husband, in over twenty years he has never hit me nor been violent to date (means never) then after boyfriend, lawyer, women’s shelter and police get through with her she makes a tape saying he ripped his clothes off was naked and jumped on the bed BESIDE me screamed and threatened me and I feared for my life. Then in court says he ripped his clothes off and jumped naked ON TOP of me. That, with the boyfriend’s evidence adds up to attempted rape, and if it stuck I would have gone to jail for a long time. And what would you do to a lying Crown Attorney who in front of him has police officer’s own witness statements proving all the above and puts the man on trial for two years anyway by doing just what you doing here; adding more false charges even my wife didn’t accuse me of. And guards who beat him up and broke his ribs. And what would you do about a man who would say to everyone if you will just admit "the_truth" and say you're genuinely sorry and do what is right with the "voice of reason" I will forgive you. | ||
| pickled_sausage (pickled_sausage) New member Username: pickled_sausage Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.156.154.54 |
Brilliant summary VOR. Should have been the last word, but of course not. Instead we get yet another retelling of "the story". I think the irony here as you allude, is that if TTI were to be shut down tomorrow there would be a collective shoulder shrug from most people arguing against him here. Life would go on, we'd still go to work tomorrow, take our kids to the rink etc. etc....He on the other hand will have felt as if he were the protagonist claiming victory in some apocalyptic battle. And I also believe that he thinks that by extension, we will all be asking ourselves "hey, he was right about this business. Maybe he's right about the cook, the cops, the consipiracy, the whole damn thing.". I've long believed that his only mission here was to achieve just that. To have others affirm that nothing was his fault. Dave...I don't think you'll get the satisfaction you're seeking. | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.69.180 |
Dave, I don't give a shit if "you forgive me", because I am not asking for it. I admitted the truth. I honestly believe TTI is legal, and you have not proven otherwise. I also honestly believe you mentally and verbally abuse people, including you ex-wife, and that was the reason your "storybook life" was ruined. Nothing to do with Pyramid frauds. I never accused you of rape or threatening rape, in fact I defended you when that was done. Everyone who knowingly breaks the law should be treated the same way Dave, man, woman, or public official. If you were beaten in prison, I am sorry. If you were beaten by cops I am sorry. If you were "railroaded on false charges" I am sorry. That is all terrible stuff, and if true, I hope you prove it. But don't sit there and blame TTI on your ruined life. Don't even blame Illegal Pyramid frauds on it. Take a very long look in the mirror, and honestly ask yourself if you could have possibly contributed to its downfall. If you do what is right, I will forgive you. And wmmw, yes, 50% of marriages end in divorce. My parents did too. I am not attacking his personal life to cover anything up. He accuses me of being a criminal, and I accuse him of it. Mental abuse and verbal abuse is a criminal activity. And I can assure you, many, many more marriages end because of abuse, than because of pyramid frauds. A legal expert like you should know that. Involving myself in a business that my lawyer says is legal, my accountant says is legal, the police have told me is legal, and no Government agency has told me otherwise, is not criminal activity. 3 or 4 people on the internet I have never met telling me I am a criminal for my involvement with a company these people I know and trust tell me is legal is not going to change my mind. And unlike your repeated bullshit attempts to convince people otherwise, it is possible for people to do this type of business ethically. I have never ever spoken to a teenager, single moms, retired people on fixed incomes or homeless people about TTI. I mentioned it to people I knew had $1800 and wanted to make some money. Not one single person I got involved with in TTI is pissed off at me now. Even the few that didn’t do anything afterwards and are $1800 lighter. They still have REAL products that they bought, and think they are nice products. Illegally defrauding people out of money is wrong. Working a legal network marketing business, and trying to earn a few extra dollars is not. | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
And so it goes. Hey "pickled-sausage", I have a question. What is a rink and what does it have to do with kids? It this some kind of computer gaming thing? Does it involve other people? Are there weapons? Can the children get hurt and then will we be able to parentally admonish them with, "Buck it up kiddo, its just a little wound"? Just asking! Bruce | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1481 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Dave...I don't think you'll get the satisfaction you're seeking. writes "P_BRAIN And that "PICKLED_BRAINS," is because you either pretend not to know what I am seeking, or truly too bigoted to figure it out. dave | ||
| pickled_sausage (pickled_sausage) New member Username: pickled_sausage Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.93.81.59 |
Hi Bruce...nothing as sinister as that. The only thing resembling a weapon that I've seen at the arena(rink) are a few careless high sticks. (Message edited by pickled sausage on October 23, 2005) | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
This high sticks thing, it's about martial arts, isn't it? Actually, I raised a great son already so I am just trying to bring a small degree of levity to a forum woefully bereft of any! Bruce | ||
| voice_of_reason (voice_of_reason) New member Username: voice_of_reason Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.158.69.180 |
Try meditation, I hear the ancient Chinese were able to achieve a small degree of levity, up to two feet off the ground! | ||
| bruce_audley (bruce_audley) Intermediate Member Username: bruce_audley Post Number: 198 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.53.167.229 |
I just got that! Here I was looking for something remarkably deep and all I really got was a trail, floating ballon. I fell I shall tarry here a tad as the depth of this site is more to my personal liking. Bruce | ||
| gatordave (gatordave) Senior Member Username: gatordave Post Number: 1854 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.141.185.22 |
Michael Shibley of Industry Canad is determined that pyramid fraud is going to continue in this country as he steadfastly, belligerently and contemptuously refuses to enforce the law against product based pyramid fraud until all the people at the top have their pockets full, the damage is done, and those that can lest afford it at the bottom are finally scammed. Students, seniors, ethnic groups, single parents, the financial desperate, and the financially unsophisticated. The laws regarding illegal pyramid profit from ”downline” recruitment vis a vis profit from product selling is as clear in Canada Law as it is the U.K. This bureaucrat Michael Shibley responsible for thousands of citizens needlessly losing millions must be removed from one of the most important positions in government. In short he should be fired. From the UK....... “The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry has presented a petition in the High Court to wind up Treasure Traders Corporation Ltd in the public interest. The company operated a 'Pirate Ship' themed pyramid selling scheme. Investors paid £1,200 to sign up and were told to recruit further members of a ship 'crew'. They would move up to the position of 'captain' depending on how many recruits they could enrol. Once the 'ship' had a full crew of eight members they were told to 'sail the high seas searching for gold' by taking a profit share of further investments. In fact, many members of this scheme are receiving no return on their investment. www.crimebustersnow.com |
