Tape 7, August 30, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	Do you think it's possible that they're even instructing Miscavige how to set these other guys up as fall guys if something goes wrong?
J:	Sure.
L:	Is it unreasonable for me to think they don't already have their fall-back plan when this comes up to sacrifice these people, because you've kind of expressed they anticipate everything?
J:	I think, now we're just getting into theories, way beyond fact. You ask me what I think, I think that they have a plan to have a sacrifice, and I think their plan is not to be in the country.
L:	So they'll set up some of these other lower level executives -
J:	That know nothing, and people the government, whoever's investigating, could spend years talking to them because the fact of the matter is the don't know anything.
L:	They're the fall guys when they flee. You mentioned a few days ago that you believe there was two version of OT VIII, one where Miscavige kind of freaked out, the first version and he was real worried, this guy quit Scientology after reading it. We discussed that may be in some form this version of OT VIII had been circulating where Hubbard claims to be the anti-Christ. One of the things that I'm interested in is, what auditors or CSs were around when the original OT VIII was being run on the Freewinds who could verify who were the people -
J:	It's a very interesting question. I can't answer it.
L:	So the only person that you knows for sure is David Miscavige?
J:	David Miscavige, and Ray Mithoff, and David Mayo would know, I do believe he would know. No, David Mayo wouldn't know. He wouldn't know.
L:	You don't know any of the Freewinds CSs or top auditors, because they would probably put their top auditors on that -
J:	I don't know any of those people.
L:	Who in Scientology, what executive, would be most likely to know the name? You mentioned that there was Miscavige said that, implied that they have someone inside the IRS working to help them to get their tax exempt status?
J:	Two people that would know that, the three people that would know that would be Lyman Spurlock, no, four people that would know that: Lyman Spurlock, Dave Miscavige, Marty Rathbun and Norm Starkey.
L:	What about the attorney who recruited the person?
J:	I think that, that's a rhetorical question, if you recruit them you would know.
L:	Do you know the name of that attorney who recruited the person inside the IRS?
J:	No. That was on a need-to-know basis.
L:	I'm going to throw out a couple of names here. There's a law firm called Williams and Connley in Washington, D.C., and a guy by the name of Pfeiffer.
J:	Yes.
L:	You've heard that name?
J:	That is probably the attorney that -
L:	Gerald Pfeiffer. That contracted a former IRS agent..
J:	Or somebody he knew did it.
L:	That name is familiar with you?
J:	Pfeiffer is a name that is familiar with me, as working on the IRS stuff.
L:	Do you ever hear the name Monique Yingling, working on the IRS stuff?
J:	Yes. Beyond just having some brain recognition of what that is, I can't go beyond that.
L:	So it was those four people and the attorney who recruited this retired IRS guy to go and find somebody inside the IRS for them? OK. You mentioned David Miscavige would smile after he would some very ruthless thing, like when he literally coerced Mary Sue Hubbard into giving up her family's fortune, which some people estimate at $400 million.
J:	I think it's way more than that.
L:	Way more than $400 million? OK. But, you said he was smiling for a week, just overjoyed that he had gotten this woman to give up all of her assets for $100,000. Do you recall any other times that David Miscavige was particularly happy about one of his exploits?
J:	Sure, when he got rid of Pat Broecker and me, and Annie Broecker.
L:	How did you know he was happy about that?
J:	I saw it, I saw it, I was sitting there.
L:	He was overjoyed that he removed all three of you? Any other exploits that David Miscavige took great relish and joy in, and felt like he had accomplished something great for himself or Scientology when he had done something?
J:	In the ways we are speaking of?
L:	Could be in anything.
J:	That's too general of a question. Let's take a break.
[BREAK]
L:	I've said to you several times that at some point this and all part is going to go public.
J:	By my own hand that's going to happen. I don't even care about this. I'm going to do it myself, on the Internet. I care about this, but I'm not counting on it.
L:	OK. You're going to start talking yourself.
J:	Immediately, starting tomorrow.
L:	If you -
[SIDE OF TAPE ENDS]
L:	What would you want the executives who have this knowledge about Scientology's criminal activity, or where people were harmed, or where people committed suicide, where's it all covered up, or there was a suicide that was covered up, what would you say to these executives who are out there, former Scientology executives, who are probably afraid to speak out and come forward and tell their piece of what happened in Scientology, what is happening? What would you say to them? What would you want them to know right now?
J:	Firstly, I don't have a segregated message to different publics, or different markets of Scientology. I have a message for anyone that's involved in it, that has been hurt and woke up and saw it for what it was. What I would say to those people, each and every one of them is to please help roll back this blanket of fear. Please, let's stop them in their ability to decimate the lives of anyone simply because they have money, power, resources. This is America, this is a liberal country, and this is what we all strive to do, day in and day out, to keep this country the way it is. I would say to please stop being selfish, please stop thinking of yourself, and think of humanity, America, your city, just as a whole. Let's just get this out of the way. It's not that hard to remove this illness because the people are so outlandish and so out of control. The key would be, if you've got information about these lawyers and how they work with these Scientologists to come up with all these crazy-ass schemes, well then step forward. It's everyone's responsibility to do something about this.