Tape 7, August 30, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	An attorney for Scientology. Why did you go out there, what was the reason you went out there?
J:	I went out there because they said they wanted to talk to me to see how things were going with me personally, and to talk me to about the Aznarans' case. You have to understand something about me. When you ask another question, please let me talk. I am still a Scientologist in my mind. Not a Sea Org member, but I'm working at a Scientology corporation that they arranged, subsequent to that meeting as a matter of fact, I was a booking agent. My wife is still very much into wanting to have a family, wanting to be able to talk to her father, wanting to be able to talk to her sister. My wife, my ex-wife, was off on a program trying to get her whole family together from this Scientology experience. It was very important to her at that time, that we maintain good relationships with Scientology. Her and I had talked, and as we unraveled over a 2 1/2 period of years from Scientology, we had pretty much decided that anything to do with Scientology, technological-wise, ethics-wise, and administrative-wise was just complete much bullshit. We came to an understanding that her and I were two very confused people and were having a very difficult time in the world together. It was still paramount to her to have her family. So during this time period, we're still very much under their control. They would call, like once a month, twice a month, Mike Sutter would call, "What you doing," this and that. Also people watched us, similar to what's going on now.
L:	PIs would occasionally follow you in Minneapolis?
J:	Yes.
L:	This occurred over what length of time?
J:	2 1/2 year period. I'm still pretty much under this blanket of fear of Scientology for my wife's sake and also for job's sake, because Mike Sutter made an innuendo that "If you're not doing what we say, we can make it very difficult for you in the world, because we have major connections in all kinds of business. And if you start doing something that we don't like, life will be difficult for you."
L:	He said that to you, Mike Sutter?
J:	Mike Sutter.
L:	Mike Sutter made a threat that your economic life would be affected if you give us any trouble. Were you working in a Scientology company?
J:	At that time when he made that threat, no.
L:	How long after you left Scientology did you work for a Scientology company?
J:	When I first got out, I took a bunch of odd jobs, this that and the other. I think after a year and a half, then I started working for this Scientology company, at which the whole Scientology machine just went back in together. They would call the job where I worked. Mike Sutter, "Hey what's happening, what you doing, you working for this Scientologist. You've got to keep your nose clean. You need to do an OW write-up." All this shit, so I'm fighting after I had some little bit of relief from Scientology, now I'm right back into it. Now this person that I work for is just driving me tremendously with this Scientology stuff. She's trying to get me to be a qualifications officer, and recruit other people into Scientology, do weekly OW, just like they do in the Sea Org, and then I started resisting it.
L:	Let me ask you a question. Is it reasonable that she was brought in by the GO to keep an eye on you and they were pumping reports through her as the employer?
J:	I would say this she was an instrument and an arm of Mike Sutter, who reported directly to David Miscavige.
L:	So they're very much worried about you?
J:	No. They very much still have me under control.
L:	You mentioned the Aznarans, as the reason why you were going to see Earl Cooley, can you elaborate on that?
J:	Well, not really, because when I got up there, that was not what they wanted to talk about.
L:	Why did you think you were going to see Earl Cooley?
J:	I thought I was going to see Earl Cooley for a reason that I didn't know, which was "We want to see how you're doing, who you've been talking to," which makes no damn sense The primary reason I went out there I didn't understand; the secondary they wanted to talk to me about the Aznaran thing, which they did very little of.
L:	They were worried about Rick and Vicky Aznaran?
J:	You've got to listen to me, this is what they were worried about. Because I found this out later. They figured my statute of limitations had run up, and my ability to sue them. In other words, I guess three years had passed, or whatever, and now I can no longer sue them. This is what we talked about when I went there. The Aznaran case, none of that. Listen to me. They talked to me about my ability to sue them, Monica's [Jesse's ex-wife's] ability to sue them, who any disaffected person's been calling us this. I met with them and spoke to them, I was just there for a couple days. The first day was consumed with what I've been doing in detail. The second day, which we only met for an hour and a half, to the best of my knowledge, they started talking to me about other cases that I had been involved in and did not need anything from me whatsoever. I left.
L:	Did they give you any walking around money?
J:	$3,000.
L:	They gave you $3,000 cash.
J:	And paid all my expenses.
L:	$3,000 cash and paid for your hotel and your airline?
J:	And my rental car and everything. And to go up, fly to New York. I didn't go back home, I want to New York when I left there.
L:	They even paid for an extra flight that had nothing to do with it?
J:	Right.
L:	How much to you think all that other cost was for those other 2 days you were there?
J:	About $4,500 because I stayed at the Boston Harbor Hotel, which is the top hotel. I had a suite to myself, a beautiful bedroom, a living room, food delivered and all of this and everything.
L:	Your expenses were about $1,500 for two days and they gave you $3,000 cash, which is $4,500?
J:	I'd say approximately that amount.
L:	They gave you $3,000 walking around money?
J:	For 2 1/2 days.
L:	For 2 1/2 days. Very interesting. When you were at Earl Cooley's office, just as a note, your statute of limitation runs from the point you discover fraud or deception, truly understand and discover fraud and deception, five years. If you didn't know you had been deceived of defrauded, it's from the point you finally understand. So you may still have a lawsuit against them.
J:	Well -
L:	If you were under their control and under their influence and they were lying to you about the law, you very well may have a lawsuit, but that's neither here no there. When you were at Earl Cooley's office, did they videotape you in any way?
J:	I know we recorded it, I'm not certain about videotaping.
L:	So they had a voice recorder on and they were asking you questions. Did they ask you to sign any more documents?
J:	Not that I know of.