Tape 7, August 30, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	Tonight is Sunday the 29th of August. This is Lawrence Wollersheim, I'm with Jesse Prince . Jesse, this will be the last tape that probably is going to be made for a reasonable length of time, and I want to remind you that just what you know, I do this regularly, it's important.
J:	Today's the 30th.
L:	The 30th, I'm sorry. Just exactly what you know, if you don't know it, names, dates, events, people involved with anything. Particularly since this is the last time we're going to talk, and I've told you that these tapes are going in to the FBI, don't hold anything back tonight. In this next 2 hours, or whatever it is, anything that you've thought of over the last couple of days, anything that you've been reminded of, be sure to get it in the record tonight. As they will take what's come so far, they will gather this together, and this will be the format for their meeting with you.
J:	OK.
L:	OK. So, #1, my first question is, did Scientology ever offer you money since you left Scientology for your silence?
J:	No.
L:	They never did?
J:	They never did.
L:	Stacy mentioned something about a $3 million offer.
J:	That was that in '87.
L:	When you were in Scientology. Explain the circumstances of this $3 million offer.
J:	I had left Scientology in '87, contacted the LA Times and was going to go public at that time. I told them I wanted nothing else to do with the church, and I believe my original figure I asked them for was $10 million. We talked, none of these talks in and of themselves I considered to be serious because they were working on other things which worked for them, which was my ex-wife. And that was that.
L:	So you went to the LA Times?
J:	I called them on the phone.
L:	You called the LA Times, and then Scientology contacted you, and did you initiate to them you were going to go public unless they paid you $10 million or did they say, "Jesse, we can work this out"?
J:	Pretty much that.
L:	No, I need to know clearly, did you initiate the asking for the money or did they?
J:	They.
L:	So they said to you - tell me what was said and who said it.
J:	This was at the very beginning, I'm trying to think of who it was, who was my handler. My handler was Ray Mithoff, and there was another person, somebody from Gold, maybe Ron Norton, maybe Wendell Reynolds.
L:	How did it come up? They said -
J:	Well, I'll tell you specifically. It was like, I'm leaving here, "What are you going to do? What are you going to do?" I said, well, besides expose you [Scientology] and stuff, I had also capital myself at the time. I was, I'm not concerned with what I'm going to do. It was related, "If you're gonna, if you do take this choice, you're going to need some help, you're going to need something. You're going to need some money to get started." I was like, "Oh you want me just to go away. It'll be about $10 million."
L:	That's what you said, what did they say then?
J:	They laughed. I can't say that I was serious about it either, because I was very emotional at the time. It was a very emotional situation. We didn't discuss it very much further than that, because of the high emotion. You know, people say things -
L:	How did this $3 million amount come up?
J:	I'm trying to think if it was Marty that said, "Oh, but you'll take 3"? I said, "Probably." I want to make a point so that there's no confusion about this. These talks were not serious. These talks were done in the heat of the moment, because I had left and I was completely out of their control. Now I'm in the city, where if somebody tries to grab me and hold me I can scream and someone will call the police. Now, I'm not on their turf. I'm somewhere else where I have civil rights and they know that. That's pretty much what that was about.
L:	So, after these discussions then you went back into Scientology then?
J:	Yeah.
L:	Why?
J:	Because my ex-wife who was still there couldn't see that we shouldn't be there, and I had compassion for her, and I stayed for her until she saw that this wasn't where we needed to be.
L:	Did she come out and ask you to stay?
J:	Yes.
L:	So she was part of the handling?
J:	Right.
L:	To have her come out there and basically ask, beg, cajole, what word would best describe it?
J:	The way that it's best described is pretty much how I said it. Her and I loved each other very much, and this was something that was extremely upsetting to her. She was crying.
L:	The fact that you were leaving and she couldn't see you anymore?
J:	Right.
L:	So you decided to come back in?
J:	Right. Specifically because I started waking up to what was going on and she didn't.
L:	After 1987, did you rise in the organization, or what was the end?
J:	I didn't try, I wouldn't do anything.
L:	From that point on you were at lower level positions?
J:	I was in the lower state of mind. It's kind of like I had no real will to live.
L:	Do you think they trusted you after that point?
J:	I don't know what they did, I'm just trying to indicate to you where I was at. I had no will to live. I was just existing.
L:	OK. When you finally left Scientology, were you ever taken into a room with lawyers and a videotape camera to get you to sign documents stating you'd never talk about what happened with you and Scientology?
J:	Yeah.
L:	Did you feel, did they videotape you at the time?
J:	I think they did a tape recorder, yeah, they probably videotaped it too.