Tape 6, August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	Right. Approved, published, and issued.
J:	So, massive copies of it, and then issued. Boom.
L:	OK. Do you know of anyplace that Scientology keeps archives of original policy letters written by L. Ron Hubbard?
J:	That I know of is CSC and RTRC.
L:	They actually have the originals, handwritten, stored somewhere.
J:	Right.
L:	Do you think they have the original long form mimeos, like they were sent out to the Orgs and missions, like some historic copy?
J:	Right.
L:	Have you ever seen or heard about historic copies?
J:	I've seen those things. I've seen old mimeograph things like that. What happened to them after computerization I do not know.
L:	Well--
J:	Let me speak. There's maybe another way to look at this, because I know that during my tenure of computerization at Scientology, another thing that they would do in order to store information is microfiche, when microfiche first came out. So a lot of things, the storage was - and I don't remember because I was doing a project. Microfiche everything. And that was kept in several secret locations, information with Incom. Like they had certain places where there's just massive amounts of microfiche information. A lot of it concerns knowledge reports, this, that, and the other thing. But also as part of preservation, microfiche was kept on certain projects, so that may be --
L:	Do you where those microfiche centers are?
J:	They were kept near the major A-frame within Scientology and Incom on the [?] Street. Some of them. And other ones were taken to secret locations of which I did not know.
L:	OK. Did you hear about the gold CD' s that they made and put into storage?
J:	Yes.
L:	What's on those gold CD's that you know of?
J:	I have no idea.
L:	OK. Your experience in Scientology, did the preserve L. Ron Hubbard's stuff, materials?
J:	Yes they did.
L:	Is it likely -- you might not be able to answer yes or no -- but is it likely that original copies of these policies and original L. Ron Hubbard notes and original mimeos may be preserved on microfiche, on gold CD's, or somewhere?
J:	Yeah, and in their own original form.
L:	The actual paper.
J:	The paper itself, because what they got into doing is putting, doing some process on the paper, the really old ones, to stop the acids and paper from-- Let me back up. Normal paper has acid in it and it deteriorates over time. They were working on a project to not only preserve them by taking pictures, microfiche or whatever, but also to stop the deterioration of the original document and then place it in sealed plastic. So, they very well could have copies of all these original things in sealed form.
L:	So they went to great deal of effort to preserve documents of L. Ron Hubbard.
J:	Right.
L:	To start chemically treating them and sticking them in plastic, that's pretty significant, along with microfiching.
J:	Yeah.
L:	So, the court could ask Scientology to produce the original microfiches and the original documents, if those showed that they were false, they would be destroyed before they ever got to the court?
J:	No, here we go with the corporate veil. Here we go with entities that I've been privy to, the Earle Cooley, the Leske. If ever the court demanded it from one corporation, it would be found in reality in another, separate corporation not part of the litigation, so in other words you could chase that crap around until time immemorial and you would never find it.
L:	So if Judge Kane in Denver ordered the Church of Scientology, RTC, to produce these original L. Ron Hubbard documents -
J:	It would never happen.
L:	- they would say they do not have them and they do not exist?
J:	Right, and they would say they don't even know where the hell they are.
L:	And they don't know where they are, and they would have been instructed - this is a policy in Scientology - to move any documents that are requested by the court, if they are not destroyed because you told me they destroy some of them.
J:	Oh, yeah. They never destroy the original, but things that have been published.
L:	Right. So they'll keep the original, move it to another corporation, and what they'll be doing is telling the truth to the judge that they don't have it, but lying about they don't know where it is.
J:	Right.
L:	And what they do is move it to another corporation so they don't have to produce it, and basically lie to the court.
J:	Right. So you spend this time running around trying to get the original. "Oh well, RTC, well CSI has it, well maybe it's part, well it was part of old CSC documents, that's what we know, used to be, OK well, let's get a motion." And years later -
L:	So bottom line is if these documents show they had done false copyright filings even though they possess the originals that would clearly show the fraud -
J:	Right.
L:	They would not produce them?
J:	Never see them.
L:	But they wouldn't destroy them?
J:	No, they would have them.
L:	They would have them, they would just deny by moving it to a different corporation.
J:	Now, let's take a break.
[Break in discussion]
L:	OK, when we left we were talking about attorneys.
J:	Piercing the corporate veil.