Tape 6, August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	So, he may have written some of those other pieces that they were putting together, but the average Scientologist who would get one of these with L. Ron Hubbard's name on it, would it be reasonable to say that he would believe that way he saw it was the way L. Ron Hubbard wrote it?
J:	Right.
L:	Because they don't disclose that this is actually coming from places.
J:	All over the place, yes.
L:	Have you ever seen anything that no part of what L. Ron Hubbard wrote was in the document and yet they put his name on it? That somebody else wrote completely and that they added his name to?
J:	That's like asking me a black and white question and it's just not a black and white issue. Some things would have some parts. I've never seen nothing that just had absolutely nothing that he had ever written, but I've definitely seen things that have come out that he had never seen. Never knew existed.
L:	Created inside the organization and they put his name on it
J:	Yeah. And they spit it out. Right.
L:	And they copyrighted it under his name when he didn't, in fact, create that.
J:	Right.
L:	OK. And let no one know that this was, in fact, a compilation. In some of these compilations, would two or three paragraphs possibly be written by L. Ron Hubbard and then several paragraphs written by someone else?
J:	Correct.
L:	Was that person's name disclosed, who was writing that?
J:	The only way it's disclosed is, you will have "L. Ron Hubbard" then you'll have the initials of someone.
L:	Was that the typist?
J:	No. That was the person that actually compiled and wrote the damn issue.
L:	Right.
J:	And then behind that name is the typist.
L:	OK. So these other people were actual authors.
J:	Yeah.
L:	When you were in Scientology, in one case you mention you had to examine David Mayo's stolen copy of the NOTs materials. And was that the Earle Cooley who was either a trustee or a member of the board of Boston University? He's a high member of Boston University?
J:	Is that the attorney?
L:	Earle Cooley out of Boston.
J:	Yes.
L:	OK. That, that's the same one.
J:	Right.
L:	OK. So when you looked at, they had you looking at David Mayo's copy of NOTs and Scientology's copy of the NOTs materials to examine them if to see if they were the same documents and they violated copyrights?
J:	Right.
L:	Why did they select you to look at, in this major copyright case or that had a copyright aspect, why did they trust you on this? Was this an important case, David Mayo's?
J:	It was a RICO case.
L:	Right. Was this important to Scientology?
J:	Very much so.
L:	So here's a major piece of litigation and Scientology selected you as the expert to examine the documents to see if they were violating copyrights, they were substantially the same documents?
J:	Right, and I did that examination in front of a judge, Judge Marianna Fouser, made notes. She looked at it and agreed with it, that what I had done was correct.
L:	So you had made a copyright determination for the Church of Scientology as their expert?
J:	Right
L:	In the RICO case
J:	Right
L:	They had made you an expert on copyrights.
J:	It's because of me they even won that case.
L:	And would you explain that?
J:	Because my testimony was extremely compelling. I had one here, I had one here. I had made exact notes. And I pulled those out of my pocket and that's why we ended up having to go back to the judge's chambers, where they wanted to see. It never even came up as an issue where we got those materials from. As a matter of fact, they just willingly admitted, "Yes, this is that stuff," without questioning, "How did you get it?" or anything, you know?
L:	When you were on the stand, did you ever say in your testimony, this would be part of a court record, that they have violated our copyright, these documents?
J:	Yeah. There is this one, there is this one.
L:	OK. Trade secrets? Trade secrets and copyrights.
J:	It was a trademark copyright in our case.
L:	And you said that this violates both our trade secrets and violates our copyrights?
J:	Right. To the best of my knowledge, that's what I would call it.
L:	So Scientology was using you as an expert.
J:	Correct
L:	To determine if the trademarks and copyrights were violated, and you testified?
J:	As the senior tech expert person.
L:	Right, because they've made great efforts to say that you don't have any expertise related to copyrights, related to Scientology materials, and yet they used you as an expert.
J:	Sure, so we could just roll right back down to that RICO case.