Tape 6, August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	And if you professed, went around the Org talking about God and how God had helped you?
J:	You would be out of there.
L:	They would move you out.
J:	Oh yes, as a looney tune. As a crazy person.
L:	They would think someone was crazy who believed in God?
J:	Yeah, and went around talking about God and the church. Because a person used to do it, Amanda Ambrose. I don't know if you remember her.
L:	I remember Amanda.
J:	Oh yeah, she got put way on the back burner. She one time got on a God trip. Oh no, oh no. You're no longer a mouthpiece of Scientology. You're no longer a spokesman. You go over here and do this little project. We just don't even want to hear from you. You know, don't let her talk at events. None of this kind of stuff.
L:	Because she talked about God.
J:	Right. And then there was another Jewish woman in there that was a dancer and singer. What was her name? Started with a "t". She was a - What was her name?
L:	Tina?
J:	No, it was a -
L:	Tshura - She was Jewish.
J:	Right.
L:	Tsura? I remember "t", a Jewish lady.
J:	Yeah.
L:	From Israel.
J:	Right!
L:	Tsura, something or other.
J:	Same deal. Got rid of her. She was coming in with religion and God and all this kind of stuff, and she performed a couple of times and that's it.
L:	Gone.
J:	Gone.
L:	So, then all this stuff about compatibility with world religions is just an out and out lie?
J:	Out and out lie. Scientology is about domination, not about religion. It's about domination.
L:	OK. Is there anything else relevant to this area of Scientology claiming to be a religion, or its religious practices, or this OTVIII level, or secret materials that deny God and basically religion an aberration that needs to be removed from people?
J:	It starts at the beginning. It starts at the very beginning. I mean, think about those people that first got into Scientology. I mean, I think about this video where Hana Eltringham is doing secret rites in black robes with candles and stuff, that they had on the BBC, where it came from Aleister Crowley, I believe she even says it right there. And if you read the early paths, the way L. Ron Hubbard was going, he was so anti-religious. I read those early paths because I was doing some early Dianetics course and just researching. I started the briefing course, where you have read everything and it's a common thread throughout the Scientology literature to attack Judaism, to attack Christianity. Christianity the most because they're like, they consider them to be some of the most lost people, just in an implant, being controlled, out of their control.
L:	The concept of being compassionate-- Many Christians try to be merciful and compassionate. Did you ever see anything in Scientology material that would mock or scorn Christians who were trying to be compassionate or merciful?
J:	Yeah, there's something in the Philadelphia doctoral course about how people are like sheep, and they try to help each other but that's kind of like crap because every person is responsible for what happens to them. They're creating their own universe so to have empathy or anything like that to go into agreement, you're actually pulling yourself down so you actually ostracize yourselves from people that are having problems and stuff because they're pulling it in or they're mocking it up kind of thing.
L:	They're doing it to themselves.
J:	They're doing it to themselves.
L:	So if a person has a problem, you shouldn't be compassionate or merciful because they did it to themselves.
J:	Right.
L:	They deserve it
J:	Right.
L:	in a sense? Whatever happens to them.
J:	A good line by Mr. Miscavige: "They're just stewing in their own juices."
L:	OK. Let's change the whole subject. Let's talk a little bit about copyrights, OK? There's a case going on with-- Scientology-raided people all over the world that is claiming copyright fraud, and FACTNet is one of the organizations and people they raided. And they claim that FACTNet violated 1900 copyrights. Now, are you a legal expert on copyright law?
J:	No.
L:	OK. So you don't claim to be, you don't know all the innuendoes and subtleties and all the aspects of copyright law.
J:	Correct.
L:	Would it be safe to say that you understand Scientology materials?
J:	Very much so.
L:	Why would you be qualified to know Scientology materials? What experience in Scientology makes you very aware of what's in these materials?
J:	Well, I will just tell you a horrible accolade that I got in the Church. In 1982, L. Ron Hubbard did a survey to find the person, the best cramming supervisor that they had in Scientology in or out of Sea Org who understood what they read the best and could try to do it the best.
L:	You mean, what was in these materials.
J:	What was in the materials. I was that person.
L:	Out of all the people in Scientology, you were designated the top expert on what was actually in the materials.
J:	Right. Correct.
L:	OK.
J:	Or teaching people to understand what was in them.
L:	Or teaching people to understand.
J:	Which would have had some meaning that I had an understanding.