Tape 5, August 26, 1998 and August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	Some witness.
J:	Yes.
L:	Some witness in a Scientology case?
J:	Yes, and he was watching her in a room because people were looking for her, whatever. She ended up blowing him in there.
L:	So he had to do lower conditions for that. They were keeping her separate?
J:	In a hotel room, yeah.
L:	So that she couldn't be a witness?
J:	No, she was being prepared.
L:	When they prepare witnesses, were you ever prepared by Scientology attorneys?
J:	Oh absolutely.
L:	Did they ever say to you, did they ever say anything to imply that you don't have to tell the truth?
J:	I remember them specifically saying, "Don't say it like that. Say it like this." But the specifics of it, I couldn't tell you because I've been prepared so many times, you know, with the lawyer and the questions and you know, you need to get it right.
L:	They would drill you on the correct answers.
J:	Right.
L:	Who would give you these answers, the attorneys or, or, I mean, were they your answers or were they --
J:	Answers, no. Like, I remember Earle Cooley definitely being there during some of the drilling, "Don't say this. Say that."
L:	They were telling you what not to say.
J:	Right.
L:	Even if it was the truth, they would tell you not to say it.
J:	Right.
L:	Earle Cooley instructed you not to tell the truth.
J:	Right.
L:	And he said, "Just don't give this answer"?
J:	Yeah but you see, I can't say in specifics because I was being prepared for that RICO case and I was being prepared for days. I was up all night at Author Services. You say, now what do they have to do with the RICO suit? Nothing. But we're up. Joe Yanni fell asleep there up all night. Earle Cooley was up, you know, just being prepared. Marty was the one doing the questioning and saying, "Now, you know, you say it like this. You do this. You do that. Hold it, let me check with the attorneys. Should he say, now if they say this, what should he say? No, don't say that, say this." That type of thing.
L:	Did you ever know what they were telling you was false? That they were telling you to say it even though it was false?
J:	My state of mind at that time was say what you had to say to win.
L:	Whatever you have to say to win, whatever they tell you to say, say it.
J:	And learn it and say it well.
L:	Do you think this is a common practice with everyone who Scientology, any Scientology staff member or executive is drilled on what to say, literally told what to say whether it's true or not?
J:	Sure.
L:	You know of anyone else who was ever drilled like this?
J:	Ray Mithoff, Warren McShane.
L:	And they're told, you know, "You say what we tell you to say" and that's it.
J:	"This is what they'll probably ask you and this is the deal, so this is what you say. Here it is right here."
L:	Did they ever have anything typed up that want you to say, like a script?
J:	No. They were careful not to do that.
L:	Did you know -- in one sense, you knew that you were doing what you had to do to win.
J:	Right.
L:	OK.
J:	In other words, I'll tell you a specific. I'll tell you a specific relating to Earle Cooley. When we had the stolen materials from David Mayo's group that was gotten by Bob Mithoff, and then I was being drilled.
L:	On the stolen material?
J:	Yeah, comparing them to these materials. Then I asked the question, I said, "What do I say when they ask where I got these materials from?" And Earle Cooley said, "Just say some church person dropped them off or gave them to us."
L:	Did Earle Cooley know they were stolen when he said that to you?
J:	Yes. Yes.
L:	So Earle Cooley --
J:	He said, "You don't know. Somebody dropped them off on the steps."
L:	So Earle Cooley, an officer of the court is drilling you on stolen materials that he knows are stolen by the Church of Scientology and he's telling you to say, you don't know. Somebody might have dropped them off on the steps. What made you think that Earle Cooley knew that these were stolen materials?
J:	Because he knew where the hell we got them from. Because I discussed it. I said, "You know we got these materials on the Inves lines. What do I say if I'm asked?"
L:	So he knew that you had obtained those illegally because you told him you obtained them illegally, and he told you to lie.
J:	Yeah, he said, "What do you mean? You found those on the steps."
L:	OK. Any other Scientologists or any other executives you know that have been drilled by attorneys.
J:	It's a common practice. It would probably take me some amount of days to go through my mind and try to figure out specific examples like I just did there. L; Would it be fair to say that no Scientology executive goes on the stand without intense drilling sessions?
J:	Or staff member, exactly.