Tape 5, August 26, 1998 and August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	So 500 staff members go to Riverside and are ordered to vote for one person. Did you ever, ever vote, did they ever say go out and vote every year? Did you ever vote in your 17 years in Scientology?
J:	That was my first time voting in my life.
L:	So, they got you all registered, too?
J:	Yes.
L:	So they brought forms around to have you register before they told you who to vote for.
J:	Yes.
L:	Okay. So they were affecting political elections by controlling your votes?
J:	Correct.
L:	In Riverside County. Do you have any other knowledge of Scientology listing out candidates and giving out advises to the members to donate to those campaigns, like Sonny Bono or anyone like that? Any politicians that they ever mentioned, that they really liked certain politicians?
J:	I recall two times going out and doing the voting, and my memory of that isn't good at all.
L:	Do you know of any instances of Scientology giving politicians money secretly through law firms or lobbying agents or anything like that?
J:	No.
L:	Anything like that. OK. Keep going.
J:	OK. [Reading] "Using any of its tax-free income or assets to destroy individuals or organizations as perceived as fair game?" I believe we've covered that.
L:	OK.
J:	[Reading] "Any fraud or false statement on any applications to the IRS to obtain 501(c)(3) non-profit exemption or on Scientology tax returns?" I think I've already covered that.
L:	Covered that.
J:	[Reading] "Scientology or its agents exercising any undo influence over IRS investigations or decision-makers including such things as using former IRS employees with inside knowledge to negotiate with the IRS?" OK. Now there is something on this particular point. A former person, a person that worked with IRS that they would not say who it was when they were doing this 501(c)(3).
L:	They had someone inside the IRS working with them to help them create a 501(c)(3).
J:	Right. And a person outside, a former employee of the IRS.
L:	Was his name Meade Emory?
J:	That sounds familiar.
L:	The former employee of the IRS.
J:	That sounds familiar.
L:	But what you're saying here is, while they were negotiating their 501(c)(3), an employee from the IRS was secretly helping Scientology do this thing.
J:	Correct. Right.
L:	And they wouldn't talk about who it was.
J:	No. They emphatically would not even say anything about it.
L:	Who?
J:	Marty and David Miscavige.
L:	Marty and David Miscavige had an employee inside the IRS helping them get this billion-dollar tax give-away?
J:	Yes.
L:	What made you believe that they had someone inside the IRS?
J:	Because they said it. Just like we're talking here, they said, "We have a person that used to work there, and we have a person that's there now helping us do this."
L:	Was it Marty or David Miscavige who said they had someone inside the IRS that was helping them get the 501(c)(3)?
J:	I believe it was David Miscavige.
L:	David Miscavige. Anything else?
J:	It was the biggest damn secret, I mean they only said it once, you know, at a meeting, after a meeting. What I recall is that we had just been meeting on several things and we were sitting worrying about this IRS thing, and then David and Marty, they just started talking.
L:	For twenty-five years, the IRS has turned down Scientology's applications, and all of a sudden in a secret agreement, they give them tax status and forgive a billion dollars, David Miscavige estimated a billion dollars in taxes. No one can understand how this happened.
J:	It was an inside thing.
L:	What about, the IRS agents have complained that they were getting harassing phone calls and one's working on the case, at home. I believe some stated they lost pets. Their pets disappeared.
J:	Now see, I wouldn't have knowledge of that but I've heard about that it happened.
L:	It's only what you know to be fact. These are reports we've received at FACTNet.
J:	OK.
L:	What's next on your list?
J:	[Reading] "That all Scientology related corporations are controlled by one unified management and that separation between corporations is a sham and mere instrumentality?" We talked about that.
L:	OK. What's next?
J:	[Reading] "100. Anyone who has exerted undue, unfair, disproportionate influence over Scientology's assets, trust, or reserve accounts from other Scientology-related corporations over one of these corporations to buy books, products - ?" That's the Fran Hurst story. OK. [Reading] "101. Any trustee or fiduciary for one Scientology trust or corporation who was posted or removed by an officer or executive from a different Scientology-related corporation?" Well, you know, that whole thing that kind of went down that I was involved in it in 1987 was pretty much the way this happened. Author Services came and removed, you know, David Miscavige and Norman Starkey were trustees of the Religious Technology Center, so they came from Author Services and did this removal, you know. But it's a just a sham any way you look at it, you know. There were certain people that ran Scientology. David Miscavige first. Me and Vicky Aznaran kind of even because she was a woman and wasn't that well-liked. Mike Yeager, Marty Rathbun, supporting people. Lyman Spurlock, also a strong player. Beyond that, it falls into, everyone else who no matter who or what they're called just takes orders. And that's the way it is. [Reading] "Any secret or non-secret intent, meetings, or actions by Scientology to convey the substantial portion of its assets out of any of its corporations, especially the Church of Scientology of California while a lawsuit of considerable amount is pending?" What I recall about this as being in a meeting with Marty Rathbun where they were talking about the Wollersheim judgment and how, at the same time in conjunction with the IRS, they were restructuring, and it was said that CSC, at best, would be left with $2 million and there was no way that Wollersheim could get his judgment. I mean, it just wouldn't be there.