Tape 5, August 26, 1998 and August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L: Yeah.
J: Oh, my God help me get rid of that.
L: They'll disappear. So, that what then occurs is then they pull these all out and they give them to a PI?
J: Right.
L: And say, "This is what he does."
L: And go out and find this information.
J: Or just use it to his peers.
L: Pass it to his peers to embarrass, humiliate, and back a person off.
J: Right.
L: So, do you think if John Travolta or Tom Cruise stood up and said that they made a mistake, Scientology is dangerous and people should stay away from it -
J: They'd be over.
L: They would pull everything out of their PC folders and they would do a complete character --
J: Illegalities they know about the person, intimate details that they know the person fears. Yes.
L: So the person confesses they cheated on their taxes, it would be in the PC file. Or they cheated some employee or they're hiding money or they've taken drugs. Anything.
J: Anything.
L: And that you think that Miscavige would turn on Travolta and Cruise. Would it be difficult for David Miscavige to turn on them if he thought that they had turned on him?
J: I think if they turned on him -
L: Or turned on Scientology.
J: - it'd be a hard decision to make because they use Travolta so much. Cruise, I think they're just a little more slick than just publicly running. They would do it to his family. They would start releasing information to his family or to him. They would say, you know, "How would you feel about if people knew this, this and this, this and this?" You know, "You're doing this." There's other ways besides you telling us that this information is available. That's another good trick they use. You know, "You told us this. Well, hell, that can be found here." You know, this person suddenly speaks up, you know, corroborates the events and people so that you make it look like it didn't come from them. That the source of their --
L: They get the information from the PC file and then go and try to make it look like it came from somewhere else but they would never have been able to go anywhere else had it not been for what the person confessed in their confidential PC file.
J: Right.
L: And Scientology professes that, you know, it protects this and it sues to keep PC files secret in the courtroom on one hand, and on the other hand, the minute that you go against them, they'll give your PC files to a non-Scientologist private investigator to go assassinate your character and ruin your life.
J: Right.
L: And it's all done secretly.
J: Yes.
L: Okay.
J: As an op.
L: Let me ask this. Any politicians that got into Scientology or government people, if they went against Scientology, all their confessions would be used against them?
J: Not that I know of any.
L: Okay. Let me ask you about, at one time you were involved in the computer project in Scientology?
J: Right.
L: Incom.
J: Right.
L: What was your role?
J: Supervisor. Like, I was supervisor from a managerial position. I did daily, weekly reports about it.
L: How high were in the command structure of Scientology's computerization?
J: I was the top person.
L: You were the top person in the Scientology computer network.
J: Yes, as far as, not in technical, but in administrative, managerial.
L: Did Scientology use this network to pass messages all around the world from different computer locations.
J: Yes. OK, I know what slipped my mind and I wanted to say. The persons -- oh I think I may have said it - the OSA staff members are the ones that would choose what to take out of a person's pre-clear folder and something juicy.
L: OSA is the intelligence division.
J: Right.
L: So, let's talk about Incom. Incom -- would they be getting computer reports from all over the world on the status of different organizations?
J: Ethics, whatever.
L: Was it all --
J: Usually money.
L: Was it all, just, you could, anybody could read it or was it coded or was it -- ?
J: It was encoded and encrypted. There was an encoding and encryption system that, you know, that that functions for the network; if you came outside the network and tried to get information, you'd run into encryption problems.
L: OK. So, it was encrypted so that if someone tried to receive it in translation across the country, or from Germany to Switzerland, or from the Iron Curtain to the US, nobody could read it except the Scientology people who received it at Incom and decoded and gave it to the management people in the US?
J: Right.
L: What kind of stuff was sent in this computer communication around the world?
J: Majorly information that would do with finances, current finances.

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