Tape 4, August 25, 1998 (Continued from Tape 3)

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	...and then started sending fraudulent material to that list, interstate throughout the United States and possibly even foreign countries.
J:	Yeah, because Robert Scott used to get the stuff to Steve and Mau Belmain [?],
L:	Bob Mithoff, what is his post in Scientology?
J:	He didn't have a post, he was just strictly under cover.
L:	Did he ever hold a post?
J:	Oh yeah, he used to be a staff at the Celebrity Center.
L:	What's his post now, do you have any idea?
J:	I have no idea.
L:	Speaking of Mayo, David Mayo wound up with drug charges in the Dominican Republic. From what I understand, that may or may not be correct, that someone planted drugs on him in the Dominican Republic.
J:	I remember an incident when David Mayo was stopped and strip-searched or something, had something to do with drugs. Yeah, that was a direct result of some things that Jeff Schriver was doing, who was running PIs in to create calamity, to make it look like he had drugs. How did he describe it. He said, "Well, these people down here will do anything, these Mexican people. You give them a little money. When David Mayo gets to that gate, he's going to have a big shock." Yeah, he was actually detained, I think, for a whole day or something. That was totally orchestrated by the Invest person represented in the Religious Technology Center that happened to David Mayo.
L:	That person's name was?
J:	Jeff Schriver.
L:	He was running what private investigators?
J:	It would be hard to say. Someone from Gene Ingram's office. Because Gene Ingram is the guy that says, you can use this one, you can use that one.
L:	He allocated people from Ingram's office.
J:	Right. And then there's a network of where they are, how they help each. This was in Mexico. Through that network we got some serious criminal activities going.
L:	Through Mexico?
J:	I believe it was the Mexican government, the Mexico area.
L:	Mexico area. In other words Ingram's people hired someone in Mexico..
J:	You're making me remember something, some person getting the shit beat out of them because of PIs. Some kind of magical person, and I seen his name recently, that they said was a squirrel, and he got the living crap beat out of him. He was a homosexual, too. That was also done. I've seen the names in these documents.
L:	OK. This was when you were in the investigation loop of Scientology.
J:	Yes.
L:	So they would come across your desk?
J:	Yeah.
L:	And you would destroy the documents?
J:	Right.
L:	Let me just go back to this thing. Scientology PIs, do you know which PI, was it's Ingram's firm?
J:	It had to do with Ingram's firm, or a network firm.
L:	Ingram's firm arranged to have an individual beat up who was a squirrel, who was trying to set up a religious reform -
J:	He was kind of an opinion leader kind of person because he was professed to have certain magical abilities, to do something.
L:	Hal Putoff, or the people up at Stanford Research Center?
J:	No, it was a Mexican man, and he was very popular down there.
L:	So they arranged to have him beat up in Mexico.
J:	Right.
L:	Anyone else in this venue?
J:	Well, John Nelson, you know as I mentioned, when he was over in the Far East.
L:	They tried to set him up on drug charges, and they stopped because they thought he would blab to crimes before he was arrested and killed for possession of drugs in Malaya. We were talking about David Mayo, any other things that were done to David Mayo that were arranged that was criminal acts?
J:	Well, systematic public relations campaign was done and sent to that stolen mailing list. Also agents or staff members would go out and pass out things, demonstrate around the AAC, this kind of thing. Similar to what they still do. Talk about the person's preclear folder information.
L:	They divulge the confidential confessions that David Mayo and Julie Mayo in their program to destroy these religious reformers.
J:	Right.
L:	OK. Let's keep going on the list, and we'll come back.
J:	[Reading] "Have you experienced any of the following mental or emotional symptoms while in Scientology, or since you left?" For me, I know it's been -
L:	We'll do this selection privately.
J:	[Reading] "Any celebrities in our out of Scientology who have had similar symptoms or experiences?" I mentioned about Tom Cruise after he finished OT III. I mentioned about John Travolta, I think that pretty much covers it. [Reading] "11. Any persons who were baby-watchers subjected to isolation orders because they because psychotic or suicidal." I think we covered that pretty much yesterday. [Reading] "13. Any Scientology related coercion to induce an already weakened or infirm persons to buy dangerous additional Scientology services, commit suicide, or speed their own deaths by abandoning normal medical practices for economic conveniences or security or political reasons." I think we covered that yesterday.
L:	There's been a large debate whether Scientology would have told Steve Fishman, are you familiar with Steve Fishman? I'll tell you what happened, and I don't know if you've ever heard of anything like this. Steve Fishman claims that when he got caught doing this stock fraud, that he was giving Scientology hundreds of dollars from his stock fraud, that he was ordered to do an end of case, to kill himself to protect Scientology. Have you ever heard of anything like that where a staff member is told to harm himself to protect Scientology?
J:	I think as a general term, that's something that's understood, especially by every Sea Org member that their life is in devotion. You sign a billion year contract, your life is in devotion of Scientology. Your physical body is nothing. You come and go again and again, so, I think that's a pretty prevalent idea. Whether people are courageous enough to do that is - .I know that starts with introduction to the Sea Org.
L:	You don't have any information whether that happened with Steve or anybody else that it's ever happened to.
J:	No I do not.