Tape 4, August 25, 1998 (Continued from Tape 3)

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	You mentioned Kevin True had fingers cut off.
J:	Yeah, he was doing something, he was actually making something for me when he had his accident, for my dog. I said, well I'd like something heavy for my dog to pick up and play with, like a wooden barbell. No, he suggested, I'll make you a wooden barbell for Mens, something he'd dig. I said, OK, whatever.
L:	Do you have any knowledge of Scientology falsifying accident reports of people who are hurt in the organization, and falsifying those records. Workman's Compensation and the government require that if certain accident reports that occur, there are reports filed.
J:	Yes, I remember now, you're making me. It was standard practice to not go on Workman's Compensation, no matter what you did. It's kind of like if you had an accident, no Workman's Comp, we don't want them involved. It was a bad thing to get Workman's Comp. I actually injured my knee working, when they had me working in the field. I couldn't do anything through Workman's Comp. They just sent me to the chiropractor a couple of times and said that was pretty much it, you'll be audited.
L:	No one was allowed, if you filed a report with Workman's Compensation, what would happen to you in the church?
J:	You wouldn't do it, it's just not something that happened. You were told not to do it.
L:	You were literally told, "If you're injured, you do not report this."
J:	Right.
L:	Did Scientology have insurance for staff members that paid?
J:	Apparently not.
L:	Any kind of insurance that you knew of?
J:	I never had any.
L:	Medical?
J:	No.
L:	Health?
J:	No.
L:	No type of insurance.
J:	None whatsoever.
L:	Did they insure their buildings? Against fire?
J:	Not that I know of, I've never seen it. I know as a director, I never had any building insured.
L:	Never was any insurance on any of the properties?
J:	No.
L:	Let's go on with the list here.
J:	This is a list that says here, "The following people he personally knows have had psychotic episodes while on auditing. Some of the people on the following list are still in the Sea Organization." Two people are Stephanie and Chris Silcock. I know that Chris Silcock was John Travolta's auditor for quite a while. He wanted to leave the Sea Organization. He was put through complete misery. He was there at the same time I was there with my ex-wife trying to leave. They ordered a divorce between he and his wife. They have been married for 27 years, had a kid together. I know he went pretty crazy. But, he kept in his mind he was leaving. I do believe he actually left.
L:	Would you say he went neurotic or psychotic?
J:	Yes, completely.
L:	Psychotic?
J:	Well, more neurotic.
L:	We finished the list of all the people on our list. Is there anyone that you knew, or heard of that attempted suicide while in Scientology that wasn't on our list? Or sent psychotic?
J:	Jan, there was a girl named Jan, and Andre can tell you this story better than me. I forget her last name, but we were on the 7th floor of the complex, this back in '79. That woman sat on the damn window ledge, leaning out like this, crying her eyes out, and was about to jump. Andre Tavio [Taboyoyan?] even talked her off the ledge.
L:	Why was she going to jump?
J:	She was just depressed.
L:	Did you ever hear anything about whether it was related to auditing?
J:	It was related to being in Scientology, can't get out. We were incarcerated, we couldn't leave.
L:	She was locked at the time?
J:	We were in RPF, yes.
L:	That's what I didn't know. You were under lockdown, and she wanted to leave, and she was about to kill herself because they wouldn't let her leave?
J:	Right. Andre talked her off the ledge, at which point she was confined to the first floor. A person named Janet Dare and Cheryl Herzer, Cheryl Sutter, or whatever her name is now, watched her for weeks. Then she was taken out of the Sea Org.
L:	They took her out of the seventh floor to the first floor because they didn't want her jumping.
J:	And then locked her up for real in a room under armed guard.
L:	Locked her up - when you say armed guard, you mean -
J:	Not armed guard, a guard.
L:	Do you know anyone else who attempted, or actually committed suicide, or you heard may have committed suicide, or went psychotic?
J:	Beyond those ones that I've mentioned that I know, I don't there's nothing else that comes to mind.
L:	Do you have any knowledge of people on the ELs or OT III - .
J:	Wait a minute, Ed Brewer.
L:	Ed Brewer.
J:	What I heard about Ed Brewer was he was out ethics, and he was with some car accidents and bled to death. It was a problem that he bled death. They didn't believe he bled to death or something. I know it came up as a big problem when Ed Brewer died. It's really bad that he died, the guy bled to death, he was in a car, people walked away from him. I remember hearing this story, the Ed Brewer story. I remember hearing Marty talk about it.
L:	Was Scientology somehow involved, or somehow negligent?
J:	Somehow they were, both. They were involved by watching him or something, and then some kind of negligence happened where he didn't get some kind of medical assistance. They were talking about him like this was a big fucked thing and we gotta do something about this.
L:	So, there was some problem with his death?
J:	Right.