Tape 2, August 24, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	They were in the room telling you to sign an undated resignation, that it's illegal, you're not supposed to do it, but you have to do it anyway. That was in 1982.
J:	In case you flip out. It's our insurance policy.
L:	Did you ever sign another one?
J:	I may have.
L:	How were you removed from the board of RTC?
J:	Some guys just came in and told me I wasn't in any more. They already had the undated signed -
L:	They showed you your signed letter of resignation.
J:	Yep, you don't have to do anything. I ended up signing up something else anyway.
L:	Did they have a board meeting in which you were present and they voted you off the board, which is normal.
J:	No, none of that.
L:	You had no right to express your views or protest.
J:	None, whatsoever.
L:	You were just.
J:	Summarily told you signed, it, you're out, here's a mission, there's more of us than you, see ya.
L:	What year did you sign it? '82?
J:	Umha.
L:	What year were you removed?
J:	'87.
L:	Five years later somebody walks in the room and says, "You're no longer a member of the board without any legal redress according to the laws of California, and of the functional way that a corporation must be run by the rule of law"?
J:	That was a big joke.
L:	Do you know of any other people who have signed?
J:	Vicky Aznaran, Warren McShane.
L:	Warren McShane The current head of RTC has signed an undated letter of resignation?
J:	Jim Mooney, who was one of the trustees of CSI.
L:	Jim Mooney, trustees of CSI.
J:	Everyone signed undated resignation letters of resignation.
L:	So you're saying Warren McShane, the guy who's in court testifying against FACTNet, is not really a legitimate director of RTC because he has committed a fraud becoming a director, and he's a director under fraud?
J:	Right. Well, he signed an undated resignation. Which means, that just like I was told when I signed me, if you get flaky you're out of here, it's an insurance policy.
L:	What other corporations that are run by the church of Scientology is this a practice in, to the best of your knowledge?
J:	Everyone.
L:	Everyone?
J:	Every single one of church of Scientology. Everyone that I know who was on the board signed undated resignations. David Miscavige even told me that Mark Yeager signed one.
L:	Mary Yeager signed one? Do you think Marty Rathbun and David Spurlock have signed undated.
J:	Yes, I think, I haven't seen. But I know it was a standard practice, everyone was required to.
L:	Every..
J:	Every board member is required to sign undated resignations.
L:	Let's keep talking. Anything about Peterson. The day he died he had an argument, was it a heated argument? Was it an intense argument?
J:	I was there, but you know insistent Scientologists can behave, "You really need to do this". I know Marty was really on John Peterson.
L:	Would it be fair to say they were trying to force him into auditing?
J:	Yes it would be fair
L:	Would it be fair to say that.
J:	He had refused, and that was it. A week had gone by.
L:	He died after this argument which he refused.
J:	Less than 24 hours, had a heart attack. They laughed about it, they thought it was the biggest funny thing.
L:	Who laughed?
J:	David Miscavige, Lyman Spurlock, Norman Starkey, Marty Rathbun, because he was telling us, Vicky was laughing about it. He said, the damn fag had a heart attack, he should have got his auditing.
L:	So you're saying that the man that they used for years to funnel money to commit illegal acts, and had been loyal to them, as their attorney, died, and in that room after he had died there was laughter.
J:	At home.
L:	At his home they were laughing?
J:	No, he died at his home. Later in the conference room where we were at all the services, Mark Jaegar.
L:	And they're actually laughing about this man who had loyally worked for them, he put himself in legal jeopardy, sold out his sole basically, as an attorney, and now they're laughing about his death.
J:	Right. I need a break. [Break in tape]
J:	OK, after everyone laughed heartily about John Peterson dying, old fag dying, then the next point of discussion was making sure that beautiful, beautiful flowers were bought for his funeral, spare no expense. He had beautiful little passages from each organization, like submitted by RTC, "John, we miss you, thank you for all your help." There was a magnificent show, that at that time, and I'm not talking as I sit here right now, but at that time, I felt like I was part of a Mafia organization. The callousness, and then the adherence, like the beauty and the ugliness just meshed together. At that time when I sat there, I used to wear $500 suits, get them made by a tailor, all this kind of stuff. Then it was like that false sense of power, extreme false sense of power over life and death.
L:	Let me ask you about two other areas. First is, celebrities. Did they receive, were they allowed to come to special Scientology centers for no charge and stay in special rooms or suites for lodging. Were they allowed to use the Scientology service facilities around the world without charge?
J:	Certain celebrities pretty much had carte blanc in the best Scientology facilities.
L:	Name a few names
J:	I'll give specific examples. John Travolta would actually have auditors sent to his home to audit him for free. Rick Sheehee was one of them, Chris Sillcock was another one. Just flown all over at Scientology's expense, just to maintain some control with him. John Travolta specifically would have these instances where he'd want nothing else to do with it, just leave me alone. L So he tried to get out of Scientology?
J:	Many times. Then, here we come with the freebies. The this, the that, the other thing.
L:	They would send the auditors to his home, fly the auditors around the world, and the purpose was to maintain -
J:	Good relationships with the person.
L:	- control over John Travolta. Did you ever hear anyone discuss "we need to send these auditors to keep control of John Travolta?"
J:	Yes.
L:	Who said that?
J:	David Miscavige, Norman Starkey.
L:	Any other celebrities that they sent auditors to their homes, or flew them -
J:	Special treatment, yes, Tom Cruise. Now he came up and did all of his, I mean I've never seen a guy progress so quickly through the Scientology "levels". Tom Cruise went from nothing to Clear to OT to NOTs damn near in a season, like in the fall. I know because I personally sat down and did e-meter drills with him so that he could learn the solo art. I did solo drills with him, so that he could do that. When I first met him he was nothing.
L:	Do you feel he did it -
J:	I'm not done, let me finish. So then, now, even beyond him just being there, Lyman Spurlock arranged his entire divorce from Mimi Rogers for no charge, did all of his finances.