Tape 2, August 24, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	Was he physically restrained by the GO people?
J:	Yes.
L:	Was he physically restrained on the ship? Was he ever held from leaving?
J:	We're not talking about the ship, this happened at the blue complex.
L:	Oh, at the blue complex. Like he tried to leave and he was physically retrained?
J:	Oh yes, by other RPF people.
L:	Repeatedly?
J:	Whenever he tried it. He literally wasn't let out of the building for a while. He was watched by 4 or 5 people until he. Then you could kind of see he cooled off a minute, and got white armband. He just played the game, looking in retrospect. He just played the game, and when he got that white armband and was allowed to go outside that was it, he was gone.
L:	Was he under lock-down prior?
J:	Yes.
L:	He was locked down so that he could leave the premises on his own free will?
J:	The way it was, was we were on the 7th floor of a complex in one wing. There was only two ways out of there, unless you go out the window. There was a person at each, you know, like the QMs at night, that would guard the door so that no one, not only him, but no one else would get out without notice.
L:	Would you feel that he was held against his will?
J:	Very much so. He did not want to be there.
L:	Did you ever hear of him of having any kind of a - I don't know if you had access - The only time I'm going to ask you about PC folders is when it relates to criminal activity or people being physically harmed or mentally harmed. I'm not interested in what people did in the past life, and their sexual things, it's just not the issue. Where there may have been knowledge of the organization knowing that the person was having psychotic fits or threatening, and they did nothing besides lock him up against his will.
J:	Well, this is a classic situation.
L:	Did you know of anything that would make a reasonable person who was auditing him, or his CS, or ethics officer, believe this guy was threatening to commit a violent act and was borderline psychotic or psychotic?
J:	Yes, he was all of that. When he came there he had already threatened to kill her, it was known. He had already said that before coming to the RPF, that was told to the RPF/MAA. I'm trying to think of the guy's name who told me, who said it from the GO.
L:	So the GO had already known?
J:	The GO brought him there, they had already known that he had made a death threat against his wife, they had already known, they had classified him as being psychotic.
L:	So he was classified by the organization as psychotic?
J:	Yes.
L:	..and held against his will in a locked building?
J:	In a guarded building.
L:	Was he receiving any auditing, was he on the confidential levels? Nothing about his case level, did you know what his case level was? Was he an OT III?
J:	No, I didn't know anything. At that time I was nothing. I hadn't done any of those things, I didn't know anything about it.
L:	Let's go on to the next thing.
J:	You're going to put the rest of the story with this.
L:	Yes.
J:	"#10, Bob Schafner was an OT III."
L:	Actually, why don't you put it on the tape right now, about what you know of this guy who shot and killed his wife and Marty Rathbun being there, just a quick condensation.
J:	I'll just condense it quickly. After he received his white armband, which means, in Scientology, that in a nutshell, they've influenced you enough so that you're not going to do anything outside of what they tell you to do. He was running around with his white armband and he was saying how great it was and how he was going to get redeemed. But, I could see it in his eyes that was not the case. I could see it in his eyes that he was extremely unsettled on this matter with his wife. It was within a day or two after receiving his white armband he was gone, gone, gone. Now in the RPF, John Colletto, blew, all went to hell, lower conditions for everyone because he blew. Specifically the RPF/MA, who I believe was Harry Paneer at the time. Some days passed. We were up on the 7th floor, I guess it was a study period, heard these gunshots. We all ran out to look, and there was a car, I believe it was a little white car, and a bunch of people circling around it. People were saying, "John Colletto!" We knew that he said he was going to kill his wife. Word came up, John Colletto had just murdered Diane Colletto, and ran off. Now the police and everyone was looking for him. Then the GO, the Guardians Office people came running upstairs to make us get away from the window so that we couldn't view the carnage below. Within a few days of that, or maybe a week, I was told by a person from the GO, I think it was Tom somebody, that John Colletto had been found dead of self-inflicted wounds from the same weapon that he used to kill his wife with, in the Hollywood Hills with a suicide note, blaming it on Scientology.
L:	Blaming it on Scientology.
J:	Yeah.
L:	Did this ever reach the newspapers?
J:	No, not that I know, but I'm incarcerated myself.
L:	So you wouldn't know. OK, I'm going to ask a couple things. What was the cover story that they generated around this?
J:	I have no clue.
L:	Do you have any idea what they told Diane's parents?
J:	No. I was in the RPF.
L:	OK. Do you think, this is a tough question, do you think that the GO might have went out hunting for this guy?
J:	I know for a fact they did. Police, everyone was looking for him.
L:	Do you think the GO went out to find him using their own files, to try to track him down to where he might be?
J:	You, that would be utterly my opinion, but yes, I do think so. Considering all the things the GO used to be doing, even down to LSD in the toothpaste, it was their priority to find him.
L:	It was their priority, to find him before the police, or for the police.
J:	Just find him.
L:	You never heard anything about the GO being - The guy is found with a note that is incriminating Scientology, that they caused that. We'll just leave it that. Let's go on to the next one.
J:	[Reading] "Bob Schafner was an OT III and having problems. He rode a bike under a truck, dying instantly in 1987 or 1988." I heard about this incident, but I remember Bobby Schafner from before, which I also did in the write-up. Bobby and Cindy Schafner, they were constantly harassed about their relationship in that they wanted to have children, and children were really frowned upon and looked down upon. Bobby Schafner was the kind of guy that did the electrical kind of stuff, kind of a good all around guy. I remember specifically, we were on this schedule where we had to work for 30 hours, and only sleep for 3 hours.
L:	So you worked for 30 hours, and slept for 3. How long did this go on?
J:	Couple weeks.
L:	A couple weeks, 30 hours on, 3 hours off.
J:	People were literally falling over.
L:	Schafner was on this schedule.
J:	Yes. He ended up cutting one of his fingers off. He went to the hospital. He was so glad to go to the hospital. I remember asking him why, he said, "because I got a chance to sleep. I didn't even feel it, I was so out of my mind when it happened, because in the schedule I didn't know what was going on. I got a chance to sleep and woke up and found my finger gone."