Tape 2, August 24, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Today is the 24th of August, a Monday. This is Lawrence Wollersheim. I'm with Jesse Prince . We're talking about his experiences with Scientology. Jesse, I just want to emphasize again what's important is that you just tell us just the facts, just the way they were, what you heard, what you saw, what you did, what other people did, names, as much of the dates as possible, as specific as possible, and occasionally I'll ask you questions about certain things, and we'll just go from there. What I had you read is a document called "Death, Psychosis and Scientology" which is fragments of a confidential database about members of Scientology, who either died mysteriously, attempted or committed suicide, went psychotic, or abused some way inside Scientology. Because Scientology compartmentalizes all the bad news, only its intelligence department and a few people, so that other people don't know when things are going wrong and things are severe, the only way you can reconstruct this is to try to get everybody's little piece, like a puzzle and put it together. You would be amazed over the years, how many little pieces fit together that have given families and other people some understanding of what happened to their child, or what happened to their husband or wife. With that introduction, let's just go right into it. You made some yellow sticky notes. Just tell us what you know, you can read the point and just discuss anything that you remember.
J:	The first thing that I'll speak on is [Reading] "Flo Barnett, a.k.a. Miller, who died from several gunshot wounds. She was David Miscavige's mother-in-law. Just before her death she was reported to have had an argument with David Miscavige and threatened to go public and sue Scientology." What I know about this, I guess happened right during the time of her death, no, actually, it was a little bit before because I was auditing Shelly Miscavige.
L:	Shelly is one of his twin sisters?
J:	Shelly Miscavige is David Miscavige's wife, or was during that time period, I assume she still is. I was doing auditing on her, and she brought up the fact that she had a black person in her family. She proceeded to tell me about this, that her father-in-law was black, and living with her mother. She told me that they seemed to get along very well, he was one person that understood her and took care of her. She said that some people said that he took her money. She mentioned to me that he just had a job fixing things, he would go out and fix things for people. He didn't have a regular like 9-5 job where he went out and reported to. As far as she could see, he took care of her mother very well. She was happy to have a black person in there. She mentioned that Dave Miscavige had met him and wasn't very approving of him, other family members kind of shunned the mother.
L:	The mother is Flo Barnett?
J:	Yes, because she was married to this black person. Then, Pooh, who I only know as Pooh and Sarge, which is Shelly's sister, who was one of the two couples that were with L. Ron Hubbard at the ranch shortly before and during, and all the time before and during and after his death, working as his personal maids, servant people. Then, I remember talking with her and speaking to David Miscavige after the woman had died. Whereby I had already known that David Miscavige didn't care for the father-in-law, but then Shelly told me - and she wasn't as talkative about it as she had talked to me about other things, because she would speak to me all the time - but she told me that her mother had committed suicide and had shot herself several times with a rifle. I just looked at her dead in the eye and said, "How in the hell can a person kill themselves and take a rifle and shoot themselves several times." She just looked at me and said, "I don't know, I really don't know how she died, but she had several gunshot wounds." She said that Dave Miscavige was saying that the father-in-law did it. Well, she didn't believe the father-in-law did it, because they loved each other. She was quite upset about it. I couldn't get her to talk about. I was the person auditing her, so you know, we do all of these Scientology routines you know.
L:	She wouldn't talk at all about it?
J:	No, she was just kind of in a state of deep sadness. She cried quite a bit over it. It just didn't make sense that her mother shot herself more than one time with a damn rifle. And how that could even happen, she just wouldn't talk beyond that, beyond just is there an error, she'd break about it, is there a problem, is there a withold about it, that kind of thing.
L:	What about -
J:	- locating all of this stuff to alleviating it.
L:	Did you hear anything between a conflict between David and the mother-in-law? Did you hear anything that would say this is true or not, the idea that she was getting auditing from David Mayo and David Miscagive was very upset about it? Did you hear anything like that?
J:	Yes, yes, yes, now that you bring this up. You see, because during this time period is when we had Bob Mithoff in there as a plant, with David Mayo and it was known that Flo was messing around with these people, receiving stuff. Yes, it was. Yes, he was upset about that.
L:	Do you have any knowledge of any kind of a covert action on Flo Barnett to get her back, or to get her to stop, or to just get her away from the daughter and get her completely disconnected from the daughter, his wife?
J:	Yes, I do, I do know that was done. In the church, there were several different investigative areas, all run by a single source, Dave Miscagive. As you say, information is compartmentalized. I would just know so much, the next person would know so much, the next person would know something else.
L:	Was David Miscagive technically what they call PTS because he had a mother-in-law, of his wife who was receiving squirrel auditing?
J:	David Miscagive was taking direct action concerning that situation himself along with Marty Rathbun.
L:	Marty Rathbun was involved?
J:	Yes.
L:	Do you have any actual knowledge of what they might have done if they did do anything to Flo Barnett?
J:	What I know is when that situation came up with Flo Barnett, it was taken off all the normal investigative lines, and like how information would go back and forth, it was all isolated to ASI and Marty, and specifically what he was doing with PI's and stuff. It did not come up any more.
L:	Do you believe that private investigators were involved in that, with Flo Barnett?
J:	Absolutely. Yes, I do.
L:	If there is anymore, let me know, if not, let's go on to the next one. Anything else?
J:	I guess the only significant point about that one is that part of the investigation, when it came up that Flo, you see, because I do believe it came up as I recall this, it came up based on operations that people that were under me were doing.
L:	So it was taken away from you and your covert operations.
J:	Right, when her name came up as a person discovered in there, anything that had to do with Flo Barnett, we were no longer were allowed to cover. It was specifically taken over.
L:	Let's go on to the next one.
J:	Next one is #9, "John Colletto. SO Stat, became psychotic and suicidal while on OT III. Very shortly after he shot and killed his wife, Diane Colletto to death. This occurred in 1979, in front of Ashoe in Los Angeles. Shortly afterward he killed him self. The GO made great efforts to keep the whole thing silent." Well, I've written a page about that already.
L:	We've got that. What auditing was he on? Let me bring up why I ask you what auditing ethics actions RPF. Having being on the RPF yourself, you probably have gone to those points.
J:	I was there with him when he came into the RPF.
L:	He was on the RPF?
J:	Oh, yes. I was dealing with him.
L:	Did he go psychotic on the RPF?
J:	This is how it happened. He came in visibly upset, very upset, and he was being physically moved from one place to another like he was surrounded by a group of people from the GL that actually brought him up to the RPF. Andre received him as a bocen, I received him as a deputy bocen stewards and supplies, and the RPF MAA was either Harry Paneer or Dick Jones at the time. We would receive every person coming in. I recall when John Colletto came in, he was very upset. There was a rally form that people had to go on, and I actually personally spoke to him, just trying to find out what's going on. He told me he was upset because Scientology had ordered separation of him and his wife. They were saying that he was SP, and this guy was like, I could see him losing it, or had lost it. He was seriously stressed, seriously upset, seriously in disagreement, underneath the surface was a rage that was going to come out. You could just see it.