Tape 1, August 16, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	OK. Is it your understanding that they know this and yet they claim the whole policy was written by L. Ron Hubbard?
J:	Sure.
L:	They present it as completely authored by L. Ron Hubbard. Is it your understanding that the average staff member, or member of the church, who receives this policy, with L. Ron Hubbard's name at the bottom truly believes that this was written by L. Ron Hubbard?
J:	Oh yes, they truly believe it, they have to read it to each other. If they make a method 9, do a stumble, oh yes. They have a separate organization out there called RTRC which is the actual organization that compiles and issues all these letters, these ACLBs, BBs, whatever.
L:	It's basically a manufacturing plant?
J:	Right.
L:	And it gives the apparency, if I'm understanding this, no matter how much is written by L. Ron Hubbard, it generates it as if the whole document was written by L. Ron Hubbard.
J:	Exactly. Like you sit down, especially towards the end, and then some of these concepts and issues are not even anything that L. Ron Hubbard had to speak on. The reason that I'm speaking about this in such a way that's kind of detailed, is because they have an issue authority network in place in Scientology, where anything that is issued goes through IA and then is issued to all the orgs. I was the senior person over issue authority in Scientology during my tenure as Deputy Inspector General External in RTC. IA was just one area that I had. I would see these things, see the process. They would compile an issue, maybe based on 15, 20 other different disrelated things in order to make a point about a particular subject, and then would say L. Ron Hubbard wrote this, when in fact, in its original form you could never, it would never make the sense that it makes when they finish the compilation.
L:	Did you ever see them take something that L. Ron Hubbard never wrote about, never said anything about and create their own opinion, own interpretation or policy directive? Let's just say, for example -
J:	OT VIII.
L:	He never did OT VIII?
J:	He had something about OT VIII, and the original I never saw, but a person that did see the original..
L:	Who was that?
J:	Vaughn Young. It had no more writing on it than this. But, there was a lot of other little scraps of paper around. Again, it was a compilation process.
L:	Somebody did this, not L. Ron Hubbard.
J:	Oh yes, Ray Mithoff did this.
L:	One has no way of knowing Mithoff took whatever notes that were there, if those notes were really related to OT VIII.
J:	Or anything.
L:	And yet the church issued OT VII as authored as L. Ron Hubbard from his old notes, this was his work. There was nothing that said, assembled by Bob Mithoff.
J:	Ray Mithoff.
L:	It didn't have anything like that.
J:	It would have RM, it would have LRH/RM and whoever the typist was, just like the NOTs materials.
L:	Did you ever see Scientology take -- like car washing, we know there is a policy on car washing -- but something like using an automatic teller, and all of a sudden a policy appears, authored by L. Ron Hubbard, on something that he never wrote anything on?
J:	Like how to do laundry. There was just an insanity about L. Ron Hubbard's laundry. These smells, these smells make him crazy. There was a point where he would have his laundry come to the basin, they would wash up a bunch of stuff, and send it back out to him. He would be complaining about the soap, the scratching on the skin, the smell. So, a whole big research project was done to get un-scented washing soap. No one in the Sea Org can wear anything with a scent. They still practice this today even though that stupid son of a bitch is long dead. Then me, being a smoking person, I end up being up being the last person on the line to have to smell his stuff. He never complained once I started that. I brought in an issue authority. It used to be in that special unit.
L:	The research that was done on soaps and cleaning and detergent was written up as a policy, with his name on it, and he never did the research, never wrote a line of it, and it was copyrighted under his name.
J:	How to wash shirts and stuff, I mean tubs, big tubs were bought. You would literally take a brand new shirt and it would be in tatters by the time you were done, washing the smell out of them, washing the sizing out of them.
L:	We take a little tangent, there's reasons for this, I will connect it up as we go through. You will logically get where some of these things are going. Some of this stuff relates to our court case right here. They claim that everything, every line, every word, in every policy that bears the name of L. Ron Hubbard was written by L. Ron Hubbard.
J:	That's just a flat out lie.
L:	They're using that for their copyrights, that all of it belongs to L. Ron Hubbard and the L. Ron Hubbard estate, and they're trying to enforce that with the judge. Let's go back to Mary Anne Fouser.
J:	Now, what was happening is that there was this franticness to get this TRO against the AAC. They were having some party that weekend. Just prior to that, we were infiltrating them and doing these little operations. Gary Clinger actually showed up with the Jewish yamalka on, and all of these plants were there. We wrote this up and planned it, executed it. It just made their event a nightmare. They ended up calling the police because we had secretly rented the place above the AAC and were bugging it. We knew what they were saying, all the plans, everything. So, there is an operative upstairs, there is one, Bob Mithoff, that's in and out of there, doing everything, plus there were other females involved. They just never had a chance. We were in such a panic about, on yeah, and then they got an injunction, once they discovered these things, they got an injunction against the church for the harassment and being on the property and coming around. They actually got the first injunction, which the only cover we had at that point was Bob Mithoff in there. So, of, this just caused a panic, now these sons of a bitches got something against the church, and we quickly have to do this thing and move on this RICO thing because it was looking bad. We were already in suit with them and we were doing all these harass productions. It was the weekend.
L:	One thing, is it your understanding that to record someone without their permission is a crime in most states.
J:	Yeah.
L:	Did they know that this was a crime to bug people's homes and record their private conversations without their permission?
J:	Sure. That's not the first time and that's the difference I can talk to you about other things. I'll give you something real rude. There was a staff member, Bill Finell, kind of strange, the guy just acted kind of strange, people thought he was strange, he had wife, Holly Finell, she worked at RTRC. There was a concern that they were going to blow this that and the other thing. Rick Aznaran went got a bugging device, a lamp, we had them moved, Vicky had them moved from they were living to another place where we bought a lamp with a bug in it, so that we could get some insight on staff members.