Tape 3, August 25, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	The personal physician of this guy. How long was Dink Hubbard's personal physician? J; For as long as I knew, starting from '82.
L:	From '82 to '87. Did he have other patients, or was he just dedicated to L. Ron Hubbard? Was this his person physician?
J:	I think he had other patients, other Scientology patients.
L:	Would you say that L. Ron Hubbard may have been his most important patient?
J:	That would be speculation on my part, but I think he was his most rich and influential patient.
L:	So, his patient dies, changes wills on the night before he dies.
J:	He goes to Vegas to gamble.
L:	And he goes to money to gamble on money given to him by the church?
J:	Right. L; Do you have any idea how much money?
J:	I think maybe $10,000. L; $10,000 was given to Dink to go to gamble in Las Vegas.
J:	Mike Eldridge related that story to me, and Rick Aznaran.
L:	What was their position at the time?
J:	Well, Mike Eldridge went up there after he was already dead, but the body was still at the property, so did Rick Aznaran. Dink was there. They went to another property in Vegas after the death. They sent Dink and some other people there, away from that scene, and Dink went to gamble and Rick and I believe it was Mike stayed at the Las Vegas property, just kind of watching over Dink.
L:	Why would they watch over Dink? What would they be worried about? Why would you watch over the physician?
J:	I don't know, but they were like entertaining him. It's all secret, secret cars, secret locations, tailing him, the elaborateness they would go through to keep these things secret.
L:	But L. Ron Hubbard's dead, why would you worry about the physician's doing?
J:	I have no idea.
L:	Is Dink still in the church now?
J:	I have no idea.
L:	Anything else? Do you know of anyone who was there when Hubbard died, physically died? Have you heard anyone talk who may have been a witness to his death?
J:	Ray Mithoff.
L:	Ray Mithott was there. Anyone else?
J:	David Miscavige.
L:	David Miscavige was there when he died
J:	Norman Starkey, Pat Broeker, Annie Broeker, Sarge and Pooh.
L:	Sarge and Pooh, you don't know their last names?
J:	Those were the ones that were there, and some hired people, some hired hands I guess.
L:	Were there any attorneys there?
J:	I can't say.
L:	You never heard if any attorneys were there.
J:	What I will tell you when, let me speak, just before he died, it was like his death was known. Certain people disappeared already, before it was announced he was dead. Ray Mithoff disappeared, David Miscavige disappeared, Norman Starkey disappeared, for at least 3 or 4 days prior to L. Ron Hubbard being dead. Because we were wondering where the hell they were. Vicky and I were wondering, where are these people. Suddenly Ray is woken up in the middle of the night, he's given a bran new vehicle, a Bronco, a Ford Bronco and told to go there, and no one can know what he's doing. The next thing you know, when he comes back, L Ron Hubbard's dead. So there was a 3 or 4 day period prior to L. Ron Hubbard being dead where certain people that disappeared and the later story was that they were there when it happened.
L:	Is it possible that Hubbard had died and they went after he died? Is there anything that would make you think that from anything you've ever seen or heard inside Scientology?
J:	Anything is possible.
L:	I'm asking whether you saw or heard anything that would make one believe that Hubbard may have been dead when they woke up Mithoff and everybody went there after he died.
J:	I can speculate that, but Ray Mithoff said he was auditing him when he went there. Who knows what happened, I don't have any... No one said to me, or no one ever gave me the idea that he had already been dead.
L:	Have you heard anything about when he signed his will? Have you heard anybody discuss the time when he changed his will? Nothing at all. Let's keep going with our list.
J:	OK. [Reading] "Spanky Pena, specifically mentioned that when she was on the RPF she had a 3 pound baby. She had to rush to the hospital, the medical office said to tell the hospital that she was indignant so that Scientology wouldn't have to pay the bill. Indigent! So that Scientology would not have to pay the bill. This was a Medicare fraud case." I know that Spanky was on RPF, I know she had it very difficult, I know the way she was treated. The thing with Medicare, I can only believe my own personal story, as far as being there and having that firsthand knowledge, no. [Pause] The guy that was run over by the truck riding his bicycle.
L:	Was that Shaeffer?
J:	Yeah, Bob Schafner, we already talked about that.
L:	Let me ask you a question did you ever hear of any other accidents involving staff members or people in Scientology.
J:	Yes, Kevin cut his damn fingers off, only had 3 fingers left. Kevin True.
L:	Kevin True. Was this related -
J:	Had to be flown by helicopter out. He was in RTC.
L:	Could this have been related to..
J:	He was doing ethics and was doing conditions and he was doing amends
L:	No sleep -