Tape 3, August 25, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	- without an attorney. Did you take the child with you?
J:	The child was already in the custody of the church, this was just a legal matter.
L:	How could the child be in the custody of the church if the mother -
J:	The child was in Hemet California, and the mother was in Florida at the Flag. How that happened I don't know, but that was the existing situation when I came into it. It was just a legal wrap-up that they were trying to do.
L:	Anything else that you know that happened to the Hubbard family prior that might have set up a situation before they signed their inheritance away? Anything that might have affected that? Did the church run any covert operations on them?
J:	Beyond what I told you about Art with the Hawaii trip, they were the only children that I was somewhat close to, Arthur, Diana, and Mary Sue. Those were the ones that I had affiliation with.
L:	Anything else relating to the probate or the estate where you saw anything that was fraudulent or anything that didn't look right to you in the way that it was transferred or handled?
J:	Beyond what I told you, I don't know what else more wrong could happen.
L:	Let me ask you then, you mentioned that David Miscavige said that L. Ron Hubbard wasn't competent and they couldn't let him get on the stand, and he just wasn't well enough. Did L. Ron Hubbard get better after those times, did he get healthier? Did he get stronger?
J:	Never saw it, never had any indication. In fact, I think he got worse.
L:	He got worse. He was incompetent before, now, they say that L. Ron Hubbard signed a will on the day before he died, yet Miscavige say Hubbard was incompetent.
J:	Another thing in my mind now. Norman Starkey knows how to perfectly forge L. Ron Hubbard's signature.
L:	Norman Starke knows how to perfectly forge - How do you know?
J:	And so does David Miscavige because he showed me. He wrote his signature. David Miscavige wrote his signature. David Miscavige could write his signature perfectly.
L:	They actually could do a perfect forgery of L. Ron Hubbard's signature?
J:	Yeah.
L:	Do you know that they ever did forge L. Ron Hubbard's signature?
J:	He was showing me that he could, David Miscavige did mention to me that he had done it before.
L:	He had forged L. Ron Hubbard's signature. I guess what I'm asking, I'm hearing -
J:	This was right around, or shortly after the probate thing, because - Now you're reminding me of something. Let me talk. You are reminding me of a time when L. Ron Hubbard was supposed to sign something, I mentioned this in my declaration that David Miscavige was the person that could do the seals, the - what is it?
L:	Notary.
J:	Notary public, a notary public. He took all of that stuff. What he was showing me, telling me that if he had to go off to some place to get LRH to sign something was when he was telling me that he could write LRH's signature, and showed me he could do it.
L:	They claim that L. Ron Hubbard wrote a will the night before he died, changing all of his beneficiaries, changing his estate, and yet -
J:	I don't believe it. Lenskes got together and did that, and I believe that if anything needed to be signed, David Miscavige signed it.
L:	OK. Let's assume that didn't happen. You're getting these reports that L. Ron Hubbard is not competent, that he's mentally not well, and he's taking all these drugs. Do you think, let's just conjecture, I'm wondering how a man David Miscavige says is not competent can sign a will when he's not competent.
J:	This is why it's my belief that he never signed a will. Either Norman Starkey, and I don't think Norman did it because he'd had to then sign his own name as an executor of the estate, which he was. I think probably David Miscavige signed it, because he could do it perfectly. I saw it with my own eyes. I saw him write L. Ron Hubbard's signature, and you know this other thing. They would even brag about it, you know, they would sell these copies of books that had LRH's signature on it. Norman was writing that. They would laugh about it. Tell these people, you're buying this book L. Ron Hubbard signed it, and it was Norman and them signing them.
L:	You mean the books.
J:	The Battlefield Earth books.
L:	for like $2,000 or $3,000 or $5,000 for hand signed copies.
J:	LRH did not sign them.
L:	That was a fraud?
J:	Fraud.
L:	It was an art fraud in a sense, for hundreds of thousands of dollars of art fraud on people who thought they were buying original copies -
J:	Yeah, because so many people wanted to buy it, and I was sitting in the office with David and Norman, it's like there ain't no way in hell LRH's going to sign this shit, we'll sign it. The comment was, "We'll never get him to sign this."
L:	Dr. Dink, at the time of L. Ron Hubbard's death, was L. Ron Hubbard's physician. Dr. Dink was the one bringing up all these prescriptions and giving him the medication.
J:	And doing "research" with L. Ron Hubbard. They would discuss different types of drugs, what the drugs would do. Gene Dink would get the drugs, let him do what he wanted. He was the guinea pig, L. Ron Hubbard was the guinea pig.
L:	He was making himself his own guinea pig?
J:	Right.
L:	For drug therapy?
J:	Right.
L:	For the man who doesn't allow drugs for any members of the church of Scientology. Did Dink keep, do know if he kept medical records on L. Ron Hubbard's condition?
J:	If he did I nee saw them.
L:	Would Dink know if L. Ron Hubbard was competent?
J:	He would know, whether or not he would say is another thing, because he was in the deep pockets. Like I say, a trip was financed for him to go to Vegas, he was given money to go gamble.
L:	The church of Scientology gave the doctor of L. Ron Hubbard -
J:	Money to go gamble in Vegas, immediately after he passed. L Immediately after he left.
J:	After he was dead, I'm talking about now he's dead, now they do whatever they do. Now he's up in Vegas gambling.